VGRebirth stealing images from other website(s)!

[Speedy_NES]

I’m sure that a lot of you have heard about Video Game Rebirth lately. Well, I decided to check it out recently and couldn’t help but recognize a lot of the scans on their website. Some of the scans were definitely mine, so I decided to compare them with scans from the RFGeneration database, as that is the only place where I submitted my scans to be used exclusively for their online game database. Out of all of the gamepages that I have checked on vgrebirth, the majority of the scans were ripped from rfgeneration.com. I even crosschecked with other websites, and a bunch of scans seem to match with some of theirs as well, but I haven’t had the time to fully look into those yet. I don’t even want to know how many, if any, of their scans are actually their own work! I’m pretty mad that the staff at vgrebirth ripped those scans from rfgen as they have absolutely no permission to use them, whatsoever – they never even asked nor have they given any credit!

Their scan ripping deeds are clearly premeditated, but to top it off, I posted on their forums asking whether they accept scans that “I have saved on my computer from other websites,” and received the following response from a staff member there:

”Sure do, as long as the image isn't watermarked or otherwise marked as being property of a given site or person.”

It is also stated in their Submissions FAQ for Images: “If you provide us images from other sources on the web make sure they do not contain any watermarks or logos in them. We cannot use such images for our database.”

Now, I’m sure that anyone who has ever started up their scanner knows just how time consuming it is to scan any material. The fact that I, as well as quite a few others, spent an insane amount of hours scanning our game collections for the rfgeneration database (and I’m sure other websites, too), only to be stolen and used by vgrebirth, makes me pretty pissed. The fact that they don’t seem to care makes it even worse.

For those that wish to see some proof, here are some very obvious examples:

Original RFGen Myriad back-box scan

VGRebirth Myriad page

Original RFGen Flintstones: Surprise at Dinosaur Peak box-back scan (notice wear top right corner)

VGRebirth Flintstones: Surprise at Dinosaur Peak (same wear top right corner)

Original RFGen Maxi-15 AVE front-case scan

VGRebirth Maxi-15 page

I'll leave it at those three examples for now...If anybody wants more proof, I’ve unfortunately got too much of it :S

I don’t even want to start guessing how many scans they have ripped from rfgeneration.com. The fact that the majority of the games that I checked had scans from RFGen says enough.

I’m posting this here to pass the word around so that webmasters from other sites with video game images can check up on this and possibly look into finding a solution to keep sites like VGRebirth from stealing scans in the future (i.e. watermarking all images, as sad as that may be). If there is one thing that I'm sure nobody wants, it’s websites trying to make it big by stealing other people’s hard work. The fact that RFGen will likely have to watermark all of their images now thanks to VGRebirth, is unfortunate enough.

[Sylentwulf]

Did you simply NOTIFY them? If yes, and they ignored you, then they are definitely in the wrong, and should be drug out into the road and shot, of course.

HOWEVER. If someone simply e-mailed them the images, and there is no identifying mark, they have NO WAY of knowing where the images came from, or if they are stolen. Plain and simple.

This has happened to me a TON of times. Someone says "Hey thanx for the item, heres a better pic than the one you currently have on your site" They give it to me, I use it. A week later, someone is screaming on a message board that I stole their pic. Then I have to explain that a simple e-mail to the site owner would have worked wonders, and remove it from my site immediately upon request.

[Speedy_NES]

Did you simply NOTIFY them? If yes, and they ignored you, then they are definitely in the wrong, and should be drug out into the road and shot, of course.

HOWEVER. If someone simply e-mailed them the images, and there is no identifying mark, they have NO WAY of knowing where the images came from, or if they are stolen. Plain and simple.

This has happened to me a TON of times. Someone says "Hey thanx for the item, heres a better pic than the one you currently have on your site" They give it to me, I use it. A week later, someone is screaming on a message board that I stole their pic. Then I have to explain that a simple e-mail to the site owner would have worked wonders, and remove it from my site immediately upon request.

First of all, they credit contributions, and the person credited on the pages with the ripped scans is a staff member there, not a user! Secondly, when asked in the forums whether it is ok to submit images from other websites (clearly without permission) for their database, a staff member responded without any type of hesitation! If it were a regular user that submitted them, no problem, but the fact that staff is behind it, makes it so much worse! Also, how am I to ever expect them to remove the ripped images from their database? The majority of the scans I encountered in the NES section alone were ripped from RFGen...so am I to expect them to remove ALL of their scans? How are they ever going to know which scans they ripped if they didn't care about ripping scans in the first place (they obviously don't seem to care)? Am I supposed to go through every one of their gamepages and compare the scans to make a list for them? If they had only ripped a couple scans, no biggie, but, like I said before, the majority of what I have seen is ripped!

[Darren870]

I've talk to the owner of vgrebirth on here and on aim and the guy is a really nice dude. Simply say something to him, im sure he will sort things out.

Why the big deal though? He isn't using the work to gain anything more then a data base. Not profiting it in any way or passing it off as his own.

I really don't see the big deal

[Speedy_NES]

Why the big deal though? He isn't using the work to gain anything more then a data base. Not profiting it in any way or passing it off as his own.

I really don't see the big deal

They never asked to use any of RFGen's scans, nor have they given any credit. That alone is a big deal, given the huge amount of time and effort that many people spent on having those scans made.

[Ed Oscuro]

The problem is that a lot of hobbyist sites don't see the big deal taking other people's work, and you'll be hard pressed to find a site that doesn't have SOME uncredited scans or information.

Give them the benefit of the doubt for now, stay calm about it. They aren't watermarking stuff like EBAUM'S WORLD INCORPORATED which would be a whole other issue.

[Steven]

I am a user of VGRebirth... I just emailed one of the head honchos there this very link. I'm pretty sure he's a member here as well. I'm sure he'll address this when he has a moment.

[Ed Oscuro]

I would have let Speedy contact them first.

[badinsults]

Yeah, contacting them would be a good idea, rather than jumping to conclusions. However, having sites stealing content from other sites does piss me off, and I have seen it happen to my own site from some very large websites.

[captain nintendo]

Interesting subject.

I know of more than a few of my scans that I have given to www.rfgeneration, that are now on video game rebirth. I honestly wouldnt have an issue with it, if I had been contacted and asked about using my scans. (and properly credited)

I am also sure that if any information or scan could be asked for and used Its just a matter of asking is all. I know I recently asked Jason "Dangerboy" about using his pictures and information on rfgeneration. I got his permission, and trust me that everything being used will be credited to him or his site.

Not simply taken without permission and then crediting myself.....


I am positive that this is not VGrebirths way, and probably is just an individuals fualt ? But I think the person who took and used my images is a staff member there and credited himself for my work (not cool)


I will be awaiting a reply. Let us know what you hear Speedy.

[tynstar]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

[Fighter17]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

While you be doing the scans of the Genesis games, I will be updating a lot of Genesis games with information and such.

[roushimsx]

Wait, did you make sure you got the permission to scan the Max 15 before you scanned it and uploaded it to the internet? How about The Flintstones box?

I think you're blowing things too far out of proportion.

Do you scan stuff for your e-penis or do you do it to actually help preserve information/data/art/whatever?

Maybe it's just me, but when I scan / record / photo / cap / dump / rip and then see it being spread elsewhere, it puts a smile on my face that someone liked what I did enough to spread it around. If the site I submit it to gives me credit, then that's great and dandy. If they don't, that's ok too. It just irks me when stuff I take the time to scan gets watermarked (which is why I quit scanning stuff for Mobygames).

Everyone is too eager to get credit for whatever that the whole spirit of it all gets lost in the shuffle. Scanners want credit for scanning, websites want to tag/mark every fucking thing so people will visit, pirates are busy tacking intros and trainers to games, etc.

*shrug* that's just my two cents. I'm sure no one cares.

On a sidenote, what resolution do you scan in? Those images looked a bit small, so I'm just curious if you submit smaller photos or if you do 300dpi scans and websites resize them for bandwidth concerns.

Sometimes I like to fuck around with higher resolutions, but god damn if it ain't overkill.

[tynstar]

I am starting to scan my CIB Sega Genesis library for RFGeneration and I will be watermarking all the scans so they don't get ripped off. It takes a lot of time to scans games. I have 705 Genesis games and that a scan for the cart, manual, box front and box back. That’s 2820 scans that I don't want other people right clicking on saving and then posting on a different site without asking me.

Am I pissed about VGRebirth yeah, but being pissed has nothing to do with me being one of the webmasters at RFG. To me it is a matter of principle.

While you be doing the scans of the Genesis games, I will be updating a lot of Genesis games with information and such.

Awesome thanks!

[tynstar]

Wait, did you make sure you got the permission to scan the Max 15 before you scanned it and uploaded it to the internet? How about The Flintstones box?

I think you're blowing things too far out of proportion.

Do you scan stuff for your e-penis or do you do it to actually help preserve information/data/art/whatever?

Maybe it's just me, but when I scan / record / photo / cap / dump / rip and then see it being spread elsewhere, it puts a smile on my face that someone liked what I did enough to spread it around. If the site I submit it to gives me credit, then that's great and dandy. If they don't, that's ok too. It just irks me when stuff I take the time to scan gets watermarked (which is why I quit scanning stuff for Mobygames).

Everyone is too eager to get credit for whatever that the whole spirit of it all gets lost in the shuffle. Scanners want credit for scanning, websites want to tag/mark every fucking thing so people will visit, pirates are busy tacking intros and trainers to games, etc.

*shrug* that's just my two cents. I'm sure no one cares.

On a sidenote, what resolution do you scan in? Those images looked a bit small, so I'm just curious if you submit smaller photos or if you do 300dpi scans and websites resize them for bandwidth concerns.

Sometimes I like to fuck around with higher resolutions, but god damn if it ain't overkill.

I think you are missing the point. We just want credit for our hard work. IF they would of asked.

As far as resolution goes I scan between 150-300dpi. On our old server space was an issue but it isnt anymore. Teh guide line we use is the smallest side of the image be 550 pixels.

Here si a thread about submitting images.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/...num=1129172794

[izret101]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.

If people are just stealing my shit and taking credit for it i get pissed off.
I enjoy doing the work i do for the RFGen database as well as things i have done to help other various websites, including this one. Although it took alot longer to get done since i wasn't able to do it myself and was alot less than i have done on other sites.

But really what is the purpose of doing so much work if you just go unnoticed and some random person steals it and claims it for their own?

And what possibly purpose could VGR have for thumbnailing veryimage they have on that site other than in hopes of people not recognizing stolen scans?

Its not even like the staff member tried to hide the fact he was stealing images.
His username is optigrab.

As for contacting them about the images that we know for sure were stolen i don't see how that can help any.

Sure those might get removed but what about the possibly thousands of others that were stolen?

I don't see how runing a website and using stolen content from other websites as well as condoning the stealing of said content can even make sense to someone.

Anagrama is on the staff there i would like to here his response on this.
I "singled" him out because i know I know he still posts here because Pieter said he mentioned VGR being "head and shoulders above everything else"
(I did double check that quote up so i didn't get insulted for misrepresentation)

[roushimsx]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.

So really you're no different from the warez groups that attach intros to roms. Your work is comprised of copying other peoples' work and attaching your name to it, and you're mad someone stripped your name off.

[izret101]

You might think it is great to see your work used around the web.
But i only like seeing my stuff on the web if my name is attatched.

So really you're no different from the warez groups that attach intros to roms. Your work is comprised of copying other peoples' work and attaching your name to it, and you're mad someone stripped your name off.

I fail to see the comparison.

How is me scanning a game i purchased and putting the image into a database similair to someone hacking a program illegaly and distributing it illegally across the web?

The only real link is the name being attatched.

I have used roms. I have never seen somone remove the original authors credit from the program and claim the copied ROM as their own work.

No they just stick there name their to take credit for the time/effort they spent dumping it and sharing it.

Besides that when a user submits a image to RFGen there is a little line of text that goes like this:

"I agree that the content being submitted is original work, and not copied in whole or part from any source that is not my own. I also agree that I have a backup of the work, so that if the webmaster (Michael Collins) should decide to remove the content without warning, I am not at any personal loss. By sending this submission, I do not grant RF Generation ownership of it. However, I do grant RF Generation permanent non-exclusive rights to use it how they choose to. This means I still own the content I submit, can use it wherever and however I choose, but that RF Generation can also use it. RF Generation wishes to credit everyone who helps with the database, even in the smallest way. If an error occurs and I am not credited, I will contact the webmaster immediately. Nobody here should be forgotten."

That is slightly outdated as Mike is no longer with us.
But never the less it is unfair/wrong/unethical(depending on your views/beliefs/whatever) not only to us as a website that the images are stolen but also to our users who take time to contribute images and information to our website.
Which they are always credited for.

I just don't see how someone can defend the stealing of the images.
I have denied the use of several thousand images myself because i knew they were stolen from around the web.

[roushimsx]

[
I fail to see the comparison.

How is me scanning a game i purchased and putting the image into a database similair to someone hacking a program illegaly and distributing it illegally across the web?

How is me dumping a game I purchased and putting the ROM on the internet any different from you scanning artwork / magazine pages / books you didn't make/write/draw and distributing them illegally across the web?

I just don't see how someone can defend the stealing of the images.

You're missing the point: You're getting mad that someone copied something that YOU stole, and you're getting bent out of shape because you didn't get internet props for it, just like the warez scene kiddies.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I was a friend of the site owner for a long time (though I haven't spoken to him in a very long time), and I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do this intentionally.

VGRebirth, like other game scan/information sites such as MobyGames, gets a large majority of its items from its userbase. Anyone can send them images, and not say where they're from. Maybe the scans which you claim were stolen by the staff were given to them by a person who got them from the RFGen site to begin with.

They have NO WAY of knowing where the users get the images. They accept them in good faith, believing that their users wouldn't steal them or anythiing. And I know Klarth enough to know that he's got no time to check up on the origins of all images he gets for the site.

Just. Chill. Instead of blowing this up here, you should've just talked it over with him.

Edit:
Doh. I thought Klarth was the owner. Guess I was wrong. :P Still, I'm sure he wouldn't do something like this.