RGB for n00bs: a few questions

[Oobgarm]

So, after all this talk about RGB, I have found myself curious about it. I kinda feel dirty for saying it.

I bought a decent 17" Samsung monitor over the weekend at a thrift for a paltry $5. It's a fairly nice monitor, as I've used one before, and I noticed that it has analog RGB input on the back. I'd assume I'd be good to go with it and not have to buy anything else? I'm not wanting to jump off and go with anything more expensive, upscan/etc. It's a cheap monitor and I'd like for it to be a cheap RGB solution.

I'd want to try these machines with it:

Atari 2600
NES
SNES
Genesis
PSX
PS2
TG-16

What's needed to get this things up and going, other than cabling? I don't think a couple of them will do it anyway, but I really don't know what I'm talking about here.

Am I really going to notice that much of a difference, honestly?

I'm sure that these questions have all been asked before, but it's a real chore to have to sift through 5+ pages of forum search results to find it, let alone the rest of the intarweb. I did check gamesx.com, but it's kinda hard for me to swallow all of that info at once.

I thank you all in advance for your input!

[mezrabad]

I dont' think you can do it with the Atari 2600 or with the NES. The NES has been done, but it's been through the union of a VS. arcade graphics board and a NES console. There's a thread around here about it.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/view...hlight=nes+rgb

I did the Sony monitor thing too (PVM 25") and it is beautiful, only I haven't gotten a single system to work in RGB yet. The S-Video alone has kept me happy for months. (and I've been too busy to make/find/purchase RGB cables.)

Hang in there. If you are able to buy cables from anyone, please let me know as I've hit dead-end and "plan" on making them myself.

Oh and what does your RGB input look like? 25 pins?

[Jibbajaba]

I can't really answer any set-up questions( I'll leave that to Anthony1), but YES, you will notice the difference. I have been to Mr. 1's house to see RGB first hand, and it is by far the best way to play older consoles. You just need to buy or make the appropriate cables to play your systems.

Atari 2600 <--- I don't think you can RGB mod this.
NES <--- Not sure you can play this in RGB...
SNES <--- LINK
Genesis <--- LINK
PSX <--- LINK
PS2 <--- Newer system, so play it in HD, or try using the RGB cable linked to above.
TG-16 <--- Requires system modding.

Chris

[CartCollector]

Looks like you're going to need an upscan converter.

A VGA monitor will not work. With only a few exceptions, a VGA monitor will not synchronize with the video signal from a game console. Check your monitor user guide - it will list the supported frequencies. Current VGA monitors have a minimum horizontal scan rate of about 30kHz, where all game consoles output 15kHz.

And that Samsung you've got there has a minimum horizontal scan rate of 30kHz. Check the technical details on the website you've provided.

Your only solution is to get an upscan converter, such as the XRGB2+. By the way, the price listed there is about $265 USD. You might be able to find one on eBay, but don't expect paying below $200. Ask Anthony1 about his experience.

[Oobgarm]

Oh and what does your RGB input look like? 25 pins?

Turns out I have RGBHV inputs on the monitor.

Does this suck?

[Oobgarm]

Looks like you're going to need an upscan converter.

A VGA monitor will not work. With only a few exceptions, a VGA monitor will not synchronize with the video signal from a game console. Check your monitor user guide - it will list the supported frequencies. Current VGA monitors have a minimum horizontal scan rate of about 30kHz, where all game consoles output 15kHz.

And that Samsung you've got there has a minimum horizontal scan rate of 30kHz. Check the technical details on the website you've provided.

Your only solution is to get an upscan converter, such as the XRGB2+. By the way, the price listed there is about $265 USD. You might be able to find one on eBay, but don't expect paying below $200. Ask Anthony1 about his experience.

Ah well. Nevermind, I suppose. Not looking to spend that kind of money. I guess that if RGB could be had cheaply, everyone would be doing it.

Guess it'll make a nice backup or a nice VGA monitor for those couple of consoles that support it.

[Mayhem]

This is why being in Europe is good sometimes. It would almost be cheaper buying a cheap TV from here with RGB scart inputs with a stepup transformer than getting that piece of hardware.

(and most TVs here now support NTSC natively so you wouldn't have any problems using it for almost any console that doesn't need RF)

[jajaja]

All NES from France have RGB only

[mills]

if I get those snes cables from GOAT can I just plug and play? My TV has RGB input on the back i bought it in 2005.

[erehwon]

So are there any cheap options for a RGB monitor/TV? I would love to get monitor or TV that could support RGB, but I'm not able to spend a ton right now. I'm thinking I might just have to wait till I have a good job and import a tv from Europe.

By the way, what are the best video options for the snes, genesis, and saturn in the US? I'm gaming currently on a 13" tv in my room with component and svideo inputs. There's probably not a good (and cheap) way to go from RGB to component.

[mezrabad]

All NES from France have RGB only

Wow, and their power requirements are compatible with the US? Damn, that's cool. To hell with the Playerchoice 10 vs. method. I'll import!

[fergojisan]

Pardon my stupid ignorance here, but...

Does RGB = Composite video?

[NintenDk]

Pardon my stupid ignorance here, but...

Does RGB = Composite video?

composite video is a yellow plug that you see next to a red and white plug/ think RCA or vcr plugs when you think of these.

no RGB is mostly on mostly analog computer monitors and Euro TV sets

[jajaja]

All NES from France have RGB only

Wow, and their power requirements are compatible with the US? Damn, that's cool. To hell with the Playerchoice 10 vs. method. I'll import!

Well.. im not 100% sure if it works to use a US AC adapter on a european NES. Both AC adapters spits out 9v so it should work. I've used my european 220v AC adapter on a US NES toploader without any problems. But try it on your own risk

Also keep in mind that this is a PAL console so your TV must be able to take those signals. You also have to make it universal and the US games you run on it might have gfx glitches, sound can be alittle slower and the same with the game itself. I wonder if its possible to rip the RGB stuff out of the machine and insert it to a US NES. The signals will still be PAL i guess..

Here is a pic of the RGB NES (its the only output, no A/V on the side).

[Mayhem]

I've used my Megadrive (Genesis) power on a US NES fine as well... as long as the voltage is the same, it's okay.

As long as the transformer is outside the machine, then you're pretty much good to mix and match (eg. SNES, N64, Gamecube, Xbox360). If the transformer is internal (old PS1 and PS2), then DO NOT swop them over

(otherwise things go bang. Quickly!)

[CosmicMonkey]

All NES from France have RGB only

Wow, and their power requirements are compatible with the US? Damn, that's cool. To hell with the Playerchoice 10 vs. method. I'll import!

But it's not true RGB. Yes, the French NES may output an RGB signal, but it's coming from Composite originally. The PPU inside a NES only outputs in Composite, and it's the same PPU that's in any NES. That Composite signal is then transformed internally into RGB in the French NES. The only place inside a NES that true RGB exists is deep inside the PPU chip.

The only way to get true NES RGB is with the PC10 mod, because that PPU does output an RGB signal. But that is also a flawed, difficualt and expensive mod.

Anyhow, what I was going to say:

For you guys in the US who do manage to get a TV/Monitor with RGB get a JOytech AV control Centre 2. Then you can just buy standard RGB Scart cables for all your consoles. You'll then just need to get a cable from Scart to whatever RGB connection you have. It'll save the mission of trying to get loads of custom leads made for all your consoles. And there is a cheaper version of the Joytech box that has no LCD and only 4 channels.

[rbudrick]

The only way to get true NES RGB is with the PC10 mod, because that PPU does output an RGB signal. But that is also a flawed, difficualt and expensive mod.

Flawed? How'sat? What's it do wrong? I remember there were some issues, but if modded correctly it's fine. But, I welcome any correction.

-ROb

[jajaja]

I cant agree or disagree because i never really compared the RGB with normal antenna cable. I guess you need a good RGB TV to compare it also. The NES i use to play with uses antenna cable, its good enough for me

[CosmicMonkey]

The colour pallete of the Playchoice 10 PPU is slightly off, so some colour aren't correct. I think it's mostly something to do with shades of certain greys. Fine for most games, but a damn lot of work and very expensive.

The NES is the only console I'd be happy running on Composite anyway. There's nowhere to get RGB inside the machine, so that's the way it is.

[GaijinPunch]

I did the Sony monitor thing too (PVM 25") and it is beautiful, only I haven't gotten a single system to work in RGB yet.

I've gotten the PS2, DC, Saturn, and my Supergun to work in RGB. The cables are custom made though. As there's nothing close to an RGB standard in the US, they just made their own. Here is a thread at Assembler which should give you some good information.