Has modern gaming left Sonic as a relic? Will Sonic & the Secret Rings revive him?

[agbulls]

I'm curious as to what you guys think. I'm 26--and have been enjoying the Sonic series (including the Adventure series) since the first title. With few exceptions, most notably Shadow, I think Sega has done an above average job making above average games with an excellent character.

However, the newest title--"Sonic the Hedgehog"-- has received terrible scores across the board. I have this excellent little Sonic miniature that sits in my cube, and he just keeps staring at me. He's saying, "C'mon Adam...you know you've enjoyed MOST of my games. Forget Shadow the Hedgehog. This is a 360 title. Go on out to the EB and buy my new game. Ignore the reviewers and the garbage fanboy posts on gamefaqs."

But, I just can't ignore the problems that people talk about. Furthermore, I thought the demo was decent. Nothing spectacular, but I enjoyed it. So, here I am with a dilmena. Has Sonic really passed his prime? Mario seems to keep on kicking. What do you guys think? Also, for those that have played it, how's the new game?

[Joker T]

I hated the demo, can't imagine the game is much better.

But it really comes down to what you like, if you have Xbox Live download the demo and try it yourself. Your own opinion should come first.

[jajaja]

Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.

Maybe its the same with Sonic too? I dont have any connections to Sonic since i never owned a Sega system when it was popular (now i have most of them). I've always had a problem with the first Sonic games since i find it too hard to see whats going on on the screen. Its too fast and the background blends too much in with the foreground (atleast at some missions).

[agbulls]

Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.

Maybe its the same with Sonic too? I dont have any connections to Sonic since i never owned a Sega system when it was popular (now i have most of them). I've always had a problem with the first Sonic games since i find it too hard to see whats going on on the screen. Its too fast and the background blends too much in with the foreground (atleast at some missions).

That's an interesting theory Jajaja. But Mario 64 is definetly part of the series in my opinion. Also, I think most Sonic fans tend to like at least Sonic Adventure 1. It just seems that platformers are much more natural in their "native state"---that of 2D. 3D brings in things that are never concerns in a traditional platformer...camera, invisible ledges etc. I'm just curious if you guys think that most modern adult gamers have now officially written Sonic off? After all, it took 3 (or 4?) terrible Tomb Raider games before that series was corrected. Is that what we're looking at now with Sonic?

[dylan0228]

I think if you enjoyed the demo, you`ll probably enjoy the game. That has been the case in the majority of instances i`ve used that strategy. If I like the demo, the game is usually better.

[Jorpho]

I kind of feel that Sonic the Hedgehog has built up too much history at this point. Too many anime series, too many characters, too many gameplay styles. In the first game you found against this weird round guy in red pants and a flying machine and his robots that turned into animals when you hit them. Life was simple. Not so much anymore, I daresay.

Mario is also getting a little burdened with history, but I don't think it has gotten as bad just yet.

[sabre2922]

The root of the problem is this: the SEGA! of old is all but DEAD.

I remember back when anything made by SONIC TEAM was almost certain to be a AAA game but now they keep releasing mediocre to bad games one after the other the Last great game Sega has released was the Genesis collection on PS2 and PSP and thats just a retrocollection a GREAT compilation to be sure.

Sure many of the ppl that made Sonic Team so great back in the Genesis/Saturn and even the Dreamcast days are gone now but it seems that all but the Virtua Fighter development teams have left the building for good and in their place are nothing but "shadows of their former selves" -RE pun intended.

I did enjoy the two Sonic Adventure games especially the first but its sad for an old-time gamer like me to see some of the beloved 2-D characters/franchises tarnished so badly in their recent 3-D makeover/redesigns and even REredesigns.

The good thing is that there still may be hope for Sonic I mean if TOMB RAIDER can comeback to life as it did with legends a very good and solid game then certainly Sonic still has a chance.

I actually surprisingly find myself keeping tabs on the Tomb Raider Anniversary game being made for PS2 and umm psp and I used to revile that series after TR2 so in conclusion there is always hope..even for Sonic.

[Push Upstairs]

Actually i feel this way with Mario too, when he went 3d. I've heard New SMB is great, but still.. Mario in 3d isnt a true Mario game imo.

Ya know, i feel the same way. I can't really buy Mario 64 as a Mario game because i find the introduction of him punching, kicking, and butt-stomping enemies to be pretty mediocre. There was no real way to translate what made Mario good in 2D to a 3D setting and making Mario a "brawler" seems to have been someones solution.

Sonic really suffers from a similar fate in that his 3D games just aren't as fun as his 2D ones. That and the powers that be decided that his games needed to be some type of ensemble thing, which really kinda sucks.

The only 3D platform/character games i really enjoy are ones that were designed from the ground up for 3D.

[agbulls]

I would have to say this leaves me at a very interesting point of our discussion. We all generally agree that 3D has not been kind to Sonic, and has been average to Mario. Certainly, it has worsened other classics--most notabily Castlevania. Knowing that Castlevania SOTN will be coming to 360 via the arcade service (and the demand is there) is it possible we will see a future shift back to development of 2D on consoles? Or, is 2D the modern day video game equivalent to black & white?

The DS has been a haven for many of us--and with Castlevania: POR showing game design still has places to go 2D clearly has opportunities. I guess services like XB arcade and Wii VC will be places for this "medium." But I want full fleshed out 2D games running in 1080i. Are the corp board rooms really that afraid of taking this kind of chance? Seems so.

Just imagine...Street Fighter 4 with full 1080i in 2D. WoW.

[ubersaurus]

I would have to say this leaves me at a very interesting point of our discussion. We all generally agree that 3D has not been kind to Sonic, and has been average to Mario. Certainly, it has worsened other classics--most notabily Castlevania. Knowing that Castlevania SOTN will be coming to 360 via the arcade service (and the demand is there) is it possible we will see a future shift back to development of 2D on consoles? Or, is 2D the modern day video game equivalent to black & white?

The DS has been a haven for many of us--and with Castlevania: POR showing game design still has places to go 2D clearly has opportunities. I guess services like XB arcade and Wii VC will be places for this "medium." But I want full fleshed out 2D games running in 1080i. Are the corp board rooms really that afraid of taking this kind of chance? Seems so.

Just imagine...Street Fighter 4 with full 1080i in 2D. WoW.

I wouldn't go that far. Mario has had only two full 3d games released so far, and of them, one is widely regarded as fantastic, and the other as sort of average.

3d really only has been bad to sonic because Segas constant pushing of other characters. I understand they do this to lengthen the game, but really, what are the funnest parts of all 3d sonic games? Running through the levels with Sonic. Few people want to fish with Big, or go hunting for emerald shards with Knuckles. It's not even that they aren't sonic-if the other character's game bits are fun, and balanced well with Sonic, there's no problem. But they haven't been yet.

I see no shift back to 2d in the future on consoles, although it's still fine in the handheld realm. It's just as well-the 3d Zelda games and Metroid games have been fantastic. But really most of the older 2d franchises didn't go well into 3d simply because the developers didn't care that much to make something worthwhile. No one can tell me Capcom really put much effort into Final Fight 3D.

[Nature Boy]

Honestly, no Sonic game has caught my attention like the Genesis ones. Those games were always about speed, and taking Sonic into 3D kinda ruins the game for me.

I've got Sonic Rush for the DS, but like New Super Mario Bros it feels like been there, done that.

I'm not anti 3D at all, I just can't get into a 3D Sonic game. I'll just keep going back to Sonic 2.

(Mind you I am very loyal to the games I absolutely adore. I enjoy the new Civ games, for example, but can't stop playing Civ II. Sames goes for Sonic 2. And Wario Ware).

[50s Brawler]

While I still play the Mega Drive originals, namely #1 and #2 (never really cared for #3), I have to say I just couldn't get into the 3-D Sonic games at all. I tried back during the hey day of the DREAMCAST but by Sonic Adventure II I just stopped caring. Super Mario IMO, seemed to make a better transition to 3-D wheras I didn't care for the on-rails-area approach to the 3-D Sonic games, but could see where the programming for something moving at blast processing speed (ha, ha, ha!) would be hard to control in a non 2-D enviroment. By the time "Shadow of the Hedgehog" was released, complete with the guy weilding an M1911 .45 pistol and AK-47 assault rifle... well I knew that it was dead to me.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Alex Kidd or even Psycho Fox making a come back in 3-D as a SEGA mascot character, but seeing as how AK hasn't been seen since the early Mega Drive days and most never even knew about Psycho Fox... I seriously doubt any mainstream gamer would take to it, including the kiddies at that. Bloody shame really, I still play my Sonic and Sonic The Hedgehog 2 simply because that's were it was at for me.

[agbulls]

Anyone pick up Sonic and the Secret Rings today yet? I'm dying to know if its good. Gaming Age gave it an 85% and had some really positive stuff to say.

[Iron Draggon]

what I hate most about all the 3D Sonic games is the way that they change the perspective when you run through the loops... why the hell don't they let you run through the loops in first person? why change the perspective? it's not like a ton of other 3D games haven't allowed you to run through loops in first person before, even as far back as the 16BIT era... so why in this age of ultra advanced 3D technology do they change the perspective in the loops? it's the most retarded thing ever... modern hardware is totally capable of 360 degree rotation in any direction... so it's an insult to change the perspective

[djsquarewave]

Anyone pick up Sonic and the Secret Rings today yet? I'm dying to know if its good. Gaming Age gave it an 85% and had some really positive stuff to say.

I picked it up today and have put about an hour into it so far. It's not bad, and is definitely more playable than Sonic Heroes was. Haven't played the more recent releases, though, so can't compare to those.

The controls work pretty well once you get used to them. For the most part...

[agbulls]

1up has given Sonic a solid 7.5. Here is the review:

Sonic has quietly become videogaming's biggest celebrity train wreck: In his prime, he competed with Mario for game-of-the-year limelight, but these days he's a far cry from the mascot A-list. His waning stardom isn't the result of some explosive Mel Gibson–esque meltdown, but rather a steady decline into near-irrelevance. Sure, the kiddies and loyal fans stick with him through the rough spots (Shadow the Hedgehog comes to mind), but savvy consumers avoid his releases like the latest Michael Jackson record. Recently, Sonic's handlers promised a stunning reinvention with his eponymous Xbox 360/PS3 effort...but that slapdash 3D platformer crashed his 15th birthday with a disappointing thud, continuing a post–Sonic Adventure downward spiral. Luckily, we won't have to stick around to witness a rock-bottom career burnout -- Sonic and the Secret Rings shows a hedgehog who's definitely on the mend.

Secret Rings isn't exactly a triumph, but it's still a clear cut above most of the stuff we've seen on Wii. In the wake of all the recent PS2, PSP, and DS ports, it's encouraging to see that a from-the-ground-up Wii game can look really hot. From a purely technical viewpoint, the textures, polygons, and effects here demonstrate the Wii's step-up-from-GameCube graphical muscle. While nothing here looks like Gears of War or MotorStorm, some stages approach Resident Evil 4–level artistry, thanks to wise aesthetic decisions. Choosing to blanket the entire adventure in an Arabian Nights theme firmly cements the game's setting, lending the stages a cohesive look. You'll be pleasantly surprised, especially by the gorgeous final level. Sadly, the same cannot be said for the vocal-drenched soundtrack, seemingly performed by a local Winger cover band. Actually, had the composer simply stuck to cheesy butt rock it might have been more successful -- instead, each stage attempts a wildly different musical genre, butchering them all equally.

Perhaps all the singing (and we're talking every stage) is forgivable in lieu of the fact that Secret Rings is more fun than any other Sonic in years. The radically deconstructed gameplay has you steering the 'hog by holding the Wii Remote horizontally and tilting it right and left. Sonic's homing attack serves as your main offense, delivered via locking on and thrusting the Wii-mote forward. The controls feel a tad reckless at first -- Sonic's momentum takes some getting used to, and trying to go in reverse is a pain -- but become more natural and fluid as you get acclimated to the fast-paced, twitchy action. It's almost as if you combined a surreal, motion-controlled racing game with the tricky, pinpoint platforming of Super Mario Sunshine. Once you've crested that learning curve, the game's true design shines through: Expert play allows you to pull off long combo strings that send you hurtling through stages at breakneck speed...it's immensely satisfying, breathtaking stuff.

While none of the "normal" stages offer a daunting challenge, many of the game's other missions impose nasty criteria (finish with no rings, without killing any enemies, or without dying) that will surely test your patience. Some of these challenges are purely optional, but many are not...and the epic difficulty spikes they present may weed out the less dedicated players. Stick with it, though: You'll actually want to play through them to unlock a plethora of bonus content, and even the least forgiving challenges become easier once you've spent a few hours steering Sonic with the Wii-mote.

Although Sega deserves praise for Secret Rings' innovative single-player adventure, the less said about the four-player party mode, the better. It's another low-budget Mario Party rip-off that stretches out a few weak gameplay concepts into multiple multiplayer contests. Seriously, the haphazard canoeing mechanic barely works -- why make four different variations of it? A few bright spots (a clever violin-playing contest, catching fruit on skewers) don't make up for the poorly executed whole. Stick with the main game -- you can surely do multiplayer Wii-waggling better elsewhere.