Will Sega become the next 3DO?

[MegaDrive20XX]

You know Gaijin, I bet you I will probably love VF5. Simply because I have never really had any dislikes about the series since I fell in love with it on my first Sega Saturn and in the Arcades.

I should have known better, because when my boss said he didn't like VF4 Evo..I knew he had to be drunk. (Not Shun Di good drunk, but like bad drunk)

[RadiantSvgun]

I was in a Wal-Mart the other day and tried a new Sonic game demo on the Xbox 360. I just couldn't get the hang of controling sonic in 3D, which was the problem I had with Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Maybe it's my age (48). Those pesky youngsters and their new fangled games! !


Mark

The Sonic on X360 is garbage from what I have heard. I did hear the Wii one is very good.

[GaijinPunch]

You know Gaijin, I bet you I will probably love VF5. Simply because I have never really had any dislikes about the series since I fell in love with it on my first Sega Saturn and in the Arcades.

I should have known better, because when my boss said he didn't like VF4 Evo..I knew he had to be drunk. (Not Shun Di good drunk, but like bad drunk)

After spending a LOT of money playing VF4 & VF4:Evo in the arcades (where do you think I got my sig name from?) I think I just got burned out. I left Japan a few months after FT came out, but I was done by then. I'm back in Japan, but if I'm in an arcade, I prefer to play Cave's latest shooting game, playing for score. It's much cheaper (I can stretch 400 yen over an hour at a 50 yen arcade on Mushihime-sama Futari), I get marginally less pissed off, and it's better for people NOT to be there (opposite for fighting games). I'll still pop in and say hi to the people I use to fight in the VF4 days (some are still around) but my gaming tastes, and lifestyle (I'm a father now) have definitly shifted. I have also heard a lot of old school VF'ers have retired as it's basically "the same old thing".

Graphically, it's amazing though. Also, I don't think the high cost of the Lindberg hardware can be helping the sales.

[The Plucky Little Ninja]

Man Phantasy Star Universe sure fell off the map after, what I thought, was a fair amount of hype. I didn't bother to pick it up because I never found myself getting into PS online all that much. I do miss those old Phantasy Star games.

Sega's shot.

And I seriously hope I end up eating my words on this one, but I can't help it. There's been a handful of decent games in recent years, but just look at how Sonic has fallen. This is how a company treats it's flagship series? At least I'll always have the Genesis.

[MegaDrive20XX]

After spending a LOT of money playing VF4 & VF4:Evo in the arcades (where do you think I got my sig name from?) I think I just got burned out. I left Japan a few months after FT came out, but I was done by then. I'm back in Japan, but if I'm in an arcade, I prefer to play Cave's latest shooting game, playing for score. It's much cheaper (I can stretch 400 yen over an hour at a 50 yen arcade on Mushihime-sama Futari), I get marginally less pissed off, and it's better for people NOT to be there (opposite for fighting games). I'll still pop in and say hi to the people I use to fight in the VF4 days (some are still around) but my gaming tastes, and lifestyle (I'm a father now) have definitly shifted. I have also heard a lot of old school VF'ers have retired as it's basically "the same old thing".

Graphically, it's amazing though. Also, I don't think the high cost of the Lindberg hardware can be helping the sales.

You know, I saw a topic over at ign.com entitled "Are fighting games dying?". Automatically I was upset, thinking "No it's not dead". Yet you bring up a very good point. I couldn't read this article from ign.com since you have to be a paying member. Yet I'm sure the article would probably talk about Tekken, Street Fighter, and ignore tons of other 2D and 3D games like usual.

Yet honestly, "The same old thing" is what sticks to mind. Depresses me a bit, that perhaps the fighting genre is coming to a hault. I look at my Dreamcast collection at times after playing my Wii or my 360...and I think "God, remember the good times I had with this baby?" and now..it's more so a shadow of what was once a great empire of fighting games and Arcade glory days.

Everyone I keep running into, who is not into fighting games, keeps bringing up Marvel Vs. Capcom 2...and I just roll my eyes....I still feel that was the death of 2D fighters for every common joe. Yet as for us, we had Guilty Gear..and tried to secretly carry on that legacy.

However, I heard that when the hype of 2D and 3D fighters have died in some countries. Many parts of South Korea still carry on this legacy and have tournaments. Which a good friend of mine has shown me countless videos of. Which impresses me alot.

I'm sorry for repeating myself like this, but since it's about Sega-Sammy as well... what will be the one game, the one title...to bring it all back from the dead?

No way in hell, can a person re-invent Street Fighter for the rest of us. It just can't be done. Yet look at Resident Evil...it managed to do so.

Yet, if they can bring major franchises like Mario into 3D...Zelda into 3D...make their millions....yet why can't this same formula work with our famous 2D fighters? In the eyes of die-hards...I would have to say,"Over my dead body"..which I am agreeing to 125% to never mess with 2D at all.

I still refuse to touch a 3D KOF..that is garbage to me...

From my point of view, Tekken still has this image of being the modern Street Fighter of today, while the real SF remains as a "Download shareware" or "$8 to $10 DL" sadly. Soul Calibur however, still has this overrated fan base...but I still think the DC and the Soul Calibur 3 on PS2 were some solid pieces of work and gameplay. I'll never agree to part 2, it was too commericalized.


Basically, I have to say, is where are these companies going now? Ignoring it all, just to be like the others? Another War based game? Another FPS? Action/Adventure galore? another GTA-Clone? More sports games? Tons and tons of more RPG's that you can shake a stick at? I am sensing a hint of death to the fighting games..

[nebrazca78]

I am a huge huge sega fan as many know, but I do not have alot of faith in the company. They truly have lost their way...The Sega that I was grown up on is dead.

Truthfully, the SEGA! we knew died when the Dreamcast was released. Although the DC is an awesome system (graphically) with some awesome games, it wasn't really a "Sega" machine. It had less buttons on the controller than the Saturn. It had a flaky name. It wasn't black. It just wasn't right.

Whether or not they were big, I am somewhat surprised 3DO crapped out. Unlike Sega, 3DO kept the same head honcho around throughout their entire existence. Regardless of how qualified or competent Trip Hawkins was, their company was never in a state of flux like Sega seemed to be. There was never one person at Sega that someone could say consistently called the shots throughout the years. Uh, Kalinske? Stolar? Moore? Like him or not, when people think Sony they think Ken Kutargi. When people thought of 3DO, they thought of Trip Hawkins. How about Sega? Having a central figure associated with a company is hardly overrated.

When Benie Stolar took over is when Sega as buried. Almost everything they've made since DC died is, taking that whole library into account, average at best.

I hope Sega doesnt go anywhere....Hell, i dream of the day they come back to hardware.....just a dream, but hey.

I don't really care if they come back as much as it would be great for SOMEONE to start making some really great games. There's so much potential there but they're pressured to make games for the lowest common denominator. Graphics are so great now they need to start focusing on the game content again like they used to. If Sega was the company that decided to do that, well, I would be ecstatic.

I'm as die hard SEGA as one can get, but I lost faith in them after they just plain flat abandoned the DC. Sure up until recently they were still licenscing out the GD-ROMS officially, and stuff was still coming out, but they just up and quit because not enough 3rd parties were putting stuff out on the console, from how I understood it. To me the DC shouldn't have officially died until at least 2003, and was much better IMO than the PS2, but that's just me.

Sega has abandoned every non-popular (not blockbuster in the case of the DC I guess) console in their history. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and then DC. I was not surprised.

After the whole 32X fiasco though, they never really recovered and that's a shame. They (SEGA) know damn good and well that fans have clamored for...

Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder
Bare Knuckle 4
SUPER GT
Star Wars Trilogy Arcade
SHENMUE III

and many other titles for years, and do they listen? Nope, and when they tried to ressurrect the Golden Axe franchise it's some 3-D crap.

They never listened to hardcore fans for some reason. They also tried to be...to innovative I guess. They changed the formula that made the great games great. Golden Axe is nothing but a name if the game isn't true to the series. What ever happened to just adding more levels and better graphics to a great game? I know we all have games we've beaten that left us wanting more but a sequel never came out. Oh yeah, and didn't Bernie Solar kill every 2-D project he could as soon as he took over Sega? The entire industy has given up on 2-D for the most part.

[KingCobra]

Sega= Arcade Gaming in the overall sheme of the compony, a dead arcade world outside of Japan = bye-bye

VF games never could compete with the likes of Namco and Capcom on that front IMO, on the home console front, they were very good again in my opinion, but their hardcore style just didn't appeal to mainstream style of console gamers(arcade is another market altogether). They made a little headwave in the sports market but was short lived going against the likes of the corprate EA powers as EA just shut that shit down faster than you could shake a stick.

I guess I'd rank Sega in the likes of Atari/Williams and Bally, Great gaming comp's back in the day but a thing of the past now.

[GaijinPunch]

You know, I saw a topic over at ign.com entitled "Are fighting games dying?". Automatically I was upset, thinking "No it's not dead". Yet you bring up a very good point. I couldn't read this article from ign.com since you have to be a paying member. Yet I'm sure the article would probably talk about Tekken, Street Fighter, and ignore tons of other 2D and 3D games like usual.

Well, I generally don't believe anything written at IGN (or most big game publications to be honest). Most of their writers touch games on the surface, and don't really get their hands dirty.

Fighting games are definitely not dead. Every arcade has some, and they generally have people in front of them. Tekken 5 seems to be doing extremely well in the wake of VF5 (I've seen some places w/ more T5 cabs). There's a new 2d fighter called Arcana Heart out which is just beautiful, although it's very, very kawaii. Here is a thread on it at my forums w/ some info. They may not be what they used to be, but the shooting game scene isn't fairing nearly as well as the fighting game scene.

[le geek]

It may be the exception that proves the rule, but I thought Outrun2 and Outrun2006: Coast 2 Coast were both excellent. So much of the SEGA talent has moved on after Dreamcast (or rather after the first big push to be a 3rd party publisher) that it's not the company it used to be.

I'm resigned to the fact that we will probably never see Shenmue 3.

I'm still hoping for a Nights sequel.

Why they haven't made a Samba de Amigo sequel with the popularity of music games baffles me.

Cheers,
Ben

[mailman187666]

Here is what could save sega for the next few years or so in my opinion:

Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.

Shining Force 4 as a XBLA or PS3 network download - staying true to the original genesis versions, but an all new story with HD graphics, who says there can't be RPGs on XBLA.

Panzer Dragoon Saga PS3 - not only would it sell PS3 systems, but they could have beautiful visuals and so much more content on the disk.

Rez 2 - could pretty much go in any direction with this game, but I'm sure it would sell enough to profit from

non online phantasy star - people still like to play single player RPGs.

Eternal Champions - bring back those gorey overkills to a next gen system please.

and while making these surefire hits (granted they are made well) they could be releasing new and original games in hopes that they can get a spark of that same light they used to have. I want the old sega back as much as everyone else.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Well, I generally don't believe anything written at IGN (or most big game publications to be honest). Most of their writers touch games on the surface, and don't really get their hands dirty.

Fighting games are definitely not dead. Every arcade has some, and they generally have people in front of them. Tekken 5 seems to be doing extremely well in the wake of VF5 (I've seen some places w/ more T5 cabs). There's a new 2d fighter called Arcana Heart out which is just beautiful, although it's very, very kawaii. Here is a thread on it at my forums w/ some info. They may not be what they used to be, but the shooting game scene isn't fairing nearly as well as the fighting game scene.

I agree that IGN doesn't know the difference between red or blue if shot in the face with a paintball gun, when it comes to games.

I'm glad there is some type of activity going on. This 2D game you mentioned sounds pretty amazing.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.

I actually thought about this the other day after playing Sonic and the Secret Rings. The control setup would be perfect for Nights.

[RadiantSvgun]

I really think that Sega isn't properly marking, or the people who made games back in the day (Bare Knuckle. shining force 1, 2, 3) have quit.

Sega needs to realize that their fanbase is not the general public, (kids ect) but the hardcore gamer, and the sega fan of yesteryear. I'll elaborate later.

[Guru of Time and Space]

The Atomiswave is probably one of the most powerful pieces of arcade equipment ever produced.

That's funny.

Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.

Please tell me why NiGHTS on the Wii would be a good idea. We all know they were developing AiR NiGHTS in this way for the Dreamcast, but that never came about, and it had to be because of one reason or another...

I just don't see how NiGHTS on the Wii would be any better than on 360 or PS3 (I'd prefer 360...). It'd look worse and the only control you would have over the game is doing circles with the remote. Sounds not fun at all.

-GoTaS

[RadiantSvgun]

What I was saying earlier is that Sega needs to market better. Sega's fanbase is composed mainly of people like 50's brawler and such that love the old classics and the golden age of sega. If they would realize that, and market more to the hardcore, it might make them some decent profit. If people caught wind of a Streets of Rage IV, I'm sure a lot of people would crap their pants.

Or option #2.... Put more Atomiswave games on consoles. Dolphin blue, Neo Geo Battle Coliseum, Demolish Fist, Fist of the North Star, ect... give them releases stateside!

Or option #3. Reprint Panzer Dragoon Saga and Shining Force III. And sell one of them on ebay at a time. (Without telling the public its a reprint)

[Slate]

I don't see sega making a comeback anytime soon, Although a couple of the games that they released on the 360 (Condemned and Sonic) Have me convinced that they can still make some great games if they put some effort into it.

[bangtango]

When Benie Stolar took over is when Sega as buried. Almost everything they've made since DC died is, taking that whole library into account, average at best.

I agree. Only a moron would tell anyone who will listen that a system is "dead" while it is still being sold in stores. Even the Tramiels kept on claiming the Atari Jaguar was hot stuff until the day the merger with JTS happened.

[Melf]

Whether or not they were big, I am somewhat surprised 3DO crapped out. Unlike Sega, 3DO kept the same head honcho around throughout their entire existence. Regardless of how qualified or competent Trip Hawkins was, their company was never in a state of flux like Sega seemed to be.

3DO was doomed from the start. Creating a hardware platform that would be licensed out to developers, with no 1st party games? There was no way it would have been able to compete with Nintendo and Sony.

There was never one person at Sega that someone could say consistently called the shots throughout the years. Uh, Kalinske? Stolar? Moore? Like him or not, when people think Sony they think Ken Kutargi. When people thought of 3DO, they thought of Trip Hawkins. How about Sega? Having a central figure associated with a company is hardly overrated.

Hayao Nakayama was there seemingly forever, as has been Shinobu Toyoda, and Kalinske lasted for almost 6 years. Sega hasn't been as stable in management as Nintendo has, but it hasn't been as turbulent as other companies that were in much better financial shape.

udisi:
I too have a friend still hardcore into Sega and Sonic. He continues to buy in the Sonic franchise even though he knows it's crap and he won't like it. He just wants all the Sonic and spin-off games, that's why he owns everything but the Pico.

I would love to see Sega one day become a big player again, even if it ended up in the software market.

Considering that Shadow the Hedgehog sold over a million copies, it's no wonder Sega doesn't listen to the hardcore gamer anymore.

Sega has abandoned every non-popular (not blockbuster in the case of the DC I guess) console in their history. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and then DC. I was not surprised.

The Saturn lasted for almost 4 years, and the Master System almost 5 in the U.S. The other two were add-ons and not separate systems per se, so they were only going to be around as long as the main console (Genesis) was supported. One was released too early and the other was a corporate mess that never should have happened.

They never listened to hardcore fans for some reason. They also tried to be...to innovative I guess. They changed the formula that made the great games great. Golden Axe is nothing but a name if the game isn't true to the series. What ever happened to just adding more levels and better graphics to a great game? I know we all have games we've beaten that left us wanting more but a sequel never came out. Oh yeah, and didn't Bernie Solar kill every 2-D project he could as soon as he took over Sega? The entire industy has given up on 2-D for the most part.

Sega DID listen to hardcore gamers, which is why they no longer make hardware. Do you think casual gamers bought Seaman, Jet Grind Radio, or Shenmue? Those games, while excellent, simply didn't have mass appeal. Since they've gone multi-platform, they've actually become profitable for the first time in a decade. Hardcore gamers don't make companies money, casual gamers do. Just look at the Wii.

Also, Bernie Stolar had been shitting on 2D since he was at Sony. He only brought his horrible style of management with him to Sega, but he didn't create it there.

I really think that Sega isn't properly marking, or the people who made games back in the day (Bare Knuckle. shining force 1, 2, 3) have quit.

Sega needs to realize that their fanbase is not the general public, (kids ect) but the hardcore gamer, and the sega fan of yesteryear. I'll elaborate later.

Sega's fanbase may be hardcore, but its largest base of customers is casual. Who bought Otogi? Orta? No one, yet more than a million shlubs have bought Shadow the Hedgehog, and you can bet that the 360 and PS3 Sonic are going to sell well even though they suck.

The Sega we knew and love is dead. Accept it and move on.

[j_factor]

I don't understand why going multi-platform had to exclude Dreamcast, though. Why couldn't Super Monkey Ball be ported to Dreamcast too? Why couldn't VF4 be on DC? SNK did quite well supporting their little niche system for years while also releasing ports on more popular platforms.

Since abandoning the DC, only a few of their console games (read: Sonic) have sold better than their Dreamcast games did (at least in America). In 2000, Sega was the #6 game publisher in North America, and now, they're long off the top 10.

[cessnaace]

I don't see sega making a comeback anytime soon, Although a couple of the games that they released on the 360 (Condemned and Sonic) Have me convinced that they can still make some great games if they put some effort into it.

EGM recently reviewed Virtua Fighter 5 for the PS3. They gave it a 9.5. 10. And 9.5. Great scores!

Interestingly, Game Pro announced that Sega is working on at least two next gen games based on the Alien film franchises. They don't come out until 2009 though! I wonder were Sega got the money to pony up for such a big license?


Mark