What is a "Mint" game?
What makes a game in mint condition?
Does it have to be pristine, like the first time time it was opened?
Can a mint game have minor/very minor surface marks on the label that most used games seem to have?
Does a game have to work to be mint?
Does a game have to be complete to be considered mint?
Here is my opinion - simple and sweet:
"Mint = Unopened, complete in box, still sealed. (Whether shrinkwrapped, glued end flaps, etc.) If anyone has ever touched the contents, even if you just opened the box "to make sure it's all there," it is no longer mint. Period."
It drives me NUTS to see loose, disc-only PSX games or loose 2600 carts advertised on eBay as "mint." Bullcrap. A coin is considered "mint" only if there is "Absolutely no trace of wear." And the only way for this to occur is to keep it out of circulation. Take a mint coin, run it through a vending machine ONCE, and it's no longer mint. Therefore, if a game is placed in any console and "tested," it is no longer mint.
Ergo, rant aside, the second you open it, "mint" is no longer guaranteed or valid, no matter how pretty the label looks.
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But can you not say a disc-only game is in "mint condition" if the disc is otherwise undistingushiable from one you would find in an unopened box?
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)
I've always felt that mint ment that the game was flawless. As for the question about "Very minor" surface wear, if it's there then it's not mint.
There's just too many individual opinions of what's what when it comes to grading games. It's to the point where the grade really doesn't mean anything because it's not based on any real standard. One person like Sniderman above may consider mint to mean unopened and flawless. For others it may just mean that the game disk or cartridge is in mint condition even though the manual is destroyed.
There needs to be a universal standard.
No. The only way I would consider it mint is if it was GUARANTEED to never have been touched, played with, or otherwise open to any kind of marring, scuffing, or scratching. And since few people handle their CDs with felt gloves on, the only way to guarantee that it truly is mint is to have been never touched at all.Originally Posted by Jorpho
In other words, in the box, unopened, still sealed.
By your definition of "appearing flawless, but used," a car can look "mint," but have 200,000 miles on it. The car would be mint only if it just rolled off the showroom floor and was never driven.
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Not sure that's the best analogy. A car with 200,000 miles on it will have sustained a significant amount of wear and tear, under the hood if nowhere else.
But if someone's anal about taking care of their games, they could still be in like-new condition even after several plays. (especially if you've ever bought any used games from Japan) Its performance isn't degraded by the sheer act of playing it.
Amen. That has always been my definition of "mint" as well; and for the same reasoning. The ONLY games of mine I've EVER described as mint are my factory sealed ones (see my B&S thread right now). Having said that.. I DO have a factory sealed 3DO Gunslinger's Collection that I bought on eBay 3 years ago.. described as mint.. in the same fashion. Half-wit reseller sent it to me in a bubble envelope and by the time it reached me.. it was crushed. I still have it.. unopened.. but it is no longer "mint" in my eyes as well.
BTW.. this question has been asked SO many times here before.. it's no longer amusing.
But there are very few cars with 200,000 miles on them that can still be expected to continue working reliably for an extended period of time. Surely this analogy does not hold for discs?
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)
I have used the "coin collecting" analogy for years as an example. The first time I EVER heard the term "mint" was when I was a kid some 40 odd years ago.. and it was being used in the context of a collectible coin's quality. It stuck in my mind and it's ONLY meant "uncirculated" to me ever since. You REALLY can't equate the term with ANY other item or goods (except maybe stamps).. sure.. nowdays.. maybe a few other collectible hobbies use the term.. but the phrase was "coined" by coin collectors. Mint means uncirculated.. plain & simple. The only way to be uncirculated.. is to be in the same form as when something rolls off the assembly line and has not been touched by human hands.
The US Mint takes brand-new coins off the line (and yes.. with gloves on) and seals them for collectors.. that's mint.
Perhaps another better argument would be to compare it to "vinyl record" collecting. Ask a REAL record collector what he considers "mint" (If they even use the term). Ask him if someone were to remove a sealed LP out of it's cover and play it once on a record player.. would it then be mint.. chances are they'd say no 95% of the time.
Also.. granted.. game manufacturers probably don't have their employees use gloves when they package games.. but then again.. maybe it's done by machines. So the analogy of "as brand-new" is more accurate.
I'm not going to get into another "semantics" discussion here because every time this subject comes up "ad nauseum" there's ALWAYS going to be the devil's advocates around who want to argue simply for the sake of arguing.. or because they THINK they can actually change my mind.. for whatever reason.. it's pointless.. and yes.. it by it's very nature.. is a subjective call to each and everyone.
Word.
You certainly can't just use "mint" as a particular condition of video games because it's defined a certain way in another hobby. If a game has never been used then it's "new", so why use another term such as "mint" unless it's a describing the condition of "new"? This is basically how I look at it anyhow. Now if you pick up a cartridge can it be mint? Yes, it can be a mint condition cartridge, or one with no wear, tear or defects from use (although a battery will never be "mint"). Is it complete? Hell no, it's just a cart but if you find the box and manual in a "mint" condition now you have a complete, used mint copy! Of course you have conditions that follow like great, good, fair, junk, shit, wtf.
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The idea of a mint, sealed game creates a paradox -- you can only know if a game is mint by opening it and examining the contents. The disc could have been scratched while being put in the case, for example, or it could have been dislodged during transit. However, if you were to find this out, you would have to open the game and it would cease being sealed. It's possible for a mint, sealed game to exist, but you couldn't know because finding out would make it cease being a mint, sealed game.
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Now we're getting into semantics again.. and yes.. I certainly CAN define a particular term based on another hobby.. especially when said hobby is the one who created it.You certainly can't just use "mint" as a particular condition of video games because it's defined a certain way in another hobby. If a game has never been used then it's "new", so why use another term such as "mint" unless it's a describing the condition of "new"? This is basically how I look at it anyhow. Now if you pick up a cartridge can it be mint? Yes, it can be a mint condition cartridge, or one with no wear, tear or defects from use (although a battery will never be "mint"
In my eyes.. if a cart IS out of a box.. but never has even been plugged in.. is it "new"? No.. it isn't.. not to me. It became "not new" when it was removed from the box.. plain & simple.
We can go on and on and on and o.. you get the picture.. about this. The problem is as Griking said.. by the very nature of what our hobby entails.. there is NO standardization when it comes to grading video games. No board or comittee to appoint standards.. and it might shock you to find out.. I don't think it would be possible since most games are resold by people who aren't a bona-fide "business" per se and not obligated to follow ANY rules. I think it's a pipe-dream, unnecessary, and just plain stupid to even suppose it could happen. I've said it before.. it's just f*ckin" video games fer chrissake.. we're not talking about works on canvas by the masters.
If I had my druthers.. I'd simply ban the word "MINT' from ALL commercial ventures trying to make monetary profit selling and describing video games.. it's totally inappropritae to this particular hobby. But since I'm not the king of Marioland.. I realize that also is just as unlikely. ALL I can do.. is offer up my opinion.. and try to explain and validate it if someone asks. Having said that it DOES annoy me extremely when I see some frickin' dealer on evilBay describing a bare cart as mint.. or a box with the slightest amount of shelfwear.. as such.. but "otherwise" mint.
When I sell on eBay.. I adhere to my own standards. Oh sure.. if I put "MINT!!!!" in each and every one of my auctions where the game shows no outwardly visible signs of wear (95% of them) maybe I COULD attract more attention.. but I wouldn't feel right doing it. Taken right out of my current B&S thread: "Mint" only means factory sealed to me.. "brand new" means it was sealed.. but I took it out of the wrapping. My "excellent" is what most dorks call mint. Likewise.. if you see ANY of my auctions on eBay for a cart, case & box.. I DON"t call it complete.. because technically.. it isn't.. unless it has the original warning leaflets, reg card and poster.. it originally came with.. never, and when a game does.. I call it 100% complete.. without guilt.. so no.. I guess I never use the term complete.. by itself.. either.
But.. to each his own. When I used to hunt for games (no longer collecting them) a dealer describing his crap as mint in the header.. means "move along" for me. I'd even go so far as to call it a matter of deceit.. in my eyes.. especially if said seller IS a dealer or reseller and NOT just your average everday ignoramus.
eBay is SO full of people who know how to tell white lies, twist words or simply.. leave something out, nowdays.. it's no longer funny. I've heard every excuse in the book.. after I've been sent something misrepresented.. whether it was intentional or not.
Here's an example.. last night I was looking for an older PC game that when released.. originally came in a box with a printed manual. Said game was later rereleased in a jewel case without a hardcopy manual.. the game was also bundled with some PCs as well.. with nothing. Seller simply states.. "game is in !!MINT!! condition with everything it had when I got it." WTF.. does THAT mean? IS he just a lazy-assed illiterate? Or.. is he hoping he'll impress someone into buying his loose CD? These are the kind of half-wits I'd rather not even deal with.. and yes.. I COULD ask him.. but someone who has that little regard for the obvious.. doesn't deserve my attention.. once again.. I move on.
So should we all actually.. because like I said.. everytime this question is asked.. all it leads to is pointless arguing because we're ALL talking of persoanl opinions and judgements.. so much so that I propose we simply label such subjects as troll bait. I reralize that's getting a little heavy-handed.. but seriously.. if one simply knows how to use the search function.. they'll find this exact same question answerd a thousand times over by a thousand different people.
JD65.. you should no better.. especially being here as long as you have.
Last edited by scorch56; 04-05-2007 at 10:00 AM.
This is called arguing for the sake of arguing.. gimme' a break.
No matter what anyone says.. along will come one more person with a "what if" proposal or something so far out there in reasoning.. it borders on obsessive/compulsive nit-picking.
The ONLY paradox here is born out of someone's need to prolong each point with a counterpoint.. no matter how far out it may be. Unless you're one of those anal sealed game collectors with a tendency to believe in the inherent overall unscrupulousness (sic) of the human race.. I'd take it on faith.. my own ability to spot a fake.. and at worst.. close outside inspection that a game that's sold as sealed.. IS.
Sniderman and I simply said that a game should be sealed, unopened and uncirculated.. but yes.. you ARE right that once you open it.. it's no longer mint.
If you personally want to be that sure.. be my guest. I guess it's a good thing Howard Hughes was never a video game collector.
wow so many people are kinda anal about 'mint'
i always considered 'mint' to mean indistinguishable from a new copy. if its still new, its just that: new; a different level of condition alltogether.
whether you believe someone who calls their games mint or not is up to you, but if i tell you i have a game that is absolutely mint, you will not be able to tell it apart from a just opened copy. granted i dont have many of these... most are a step below... you know they have some very very minor signs of touching or use etc. but still can be considered mint/perfect by other people.
i understand your worry though with carts, once you play a cart, you can see its used. especially true with gameboy games, as they slide and scratch themselves, but whatever, if youre buying to play it as well as collect, then it doesnt matter. CD games dont carry a visible change in them after a play. considering of course the owner doesnt throw it or leave it on the table face down etc.
what pisses me off about coniditions, is when people call it 'new' when its not.
its opened? fuck you its not new. new means factory sealed. if you opened it, it aint new. i dont care if you ever played it or if everything is still there. its aint new! if the shrinkwrap fell off, its no longer new.
i would reverse your 'mint' and 'brand new' tags. once its open, its not new, but it can still be mint =]
I think if a game looks the same as it would if it is brand new (no scratches, blemishes, smudges, marks, dirt) then it is mint.
I say: sealed= new,
everything flawless (like I opened a game but never actually played it)= gem mint,
i opened a game and played it= mint,
light scratch you can't see unless certain lights hit it=awesome,
scratches you can see that are very light= very good,
many light scratches hard to see= good
many scratches= fair
I don't sell anything worse than that.
My "grading scale" has been going on for 4 ebay years now and I have yet to have a complaint, granted I only have 327 feedback, but still.
I always felt that there was a difference between a new, unopened game and a mint game. I assume that this discussion relates to eBay descriptions. If a game is unopened then it would be advertised as "unopened", NOS or "new".
how would you describe a game that's been opened but is otherwise in brand new, mint condition?
Nope.. once again though.. we'll use analogies, and I'll bring up coins and cars.
Go into a coin shop.. and ask for a mint coin. What will you get? A coin sealed up in a little plastic container/holder that can't be opened unless you break it.. or it's seals.
Go to your local car dealer and buy a "new" car off the showroom. Of course.. cars don't come sealed in plastic.. or in a big giant box.. but if you drive the car directly home and your wife gets into it.. she might say it has that "new car" smell.
I rest my case
But coins are not games. I know when I play any one of my games, they look exactly the same as when they were first new- any buyer of a game from my collection can vouch for that.
A coin will get smudges, finger oils etc. Yes- a game can get that on the disc spindle area or edges too, but not if you're careful like I am.
and if by some freak chance there is a smudge on that area, i just clean it off with a microfiber cloth- it's all good.
In MY grading system.. a factory sealed game in perfect physical shape.. is "mint".
If I open.. for instance.. my sealed copy of Family Dog and looked it over perhaps, but DIDN'T plug it in or play.. or save to it.. it's "brand new".
If I played it once or 100 times.. but it still physically LOOKED brand-new.. with NO visible signs of wear (or scratches in the case of a CD).. it's "excellent".
What I have called excellent for the last 11 years of my collecting binge.. are what most people call mint.
Once again though.. it's a subjective personal call.
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