Zelda sucked?! Zelda...sucked?! Sorry, but saying that the masterpiece that is Wind Waker sucks, renders the rest of someones opinion not valid, in my book.Originally Posted by veronica_marsfan
Zelda sucked?! Zelda...sucked?! Sorry, but saying that the masterpiece that is Wind Waker sucks, renders the rest of someones opinion not valid, in my book.
Sony, we will NEVER forget nor forgive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0LlXv-nyI
Yes. Wind Waker was boring. Sparse in dungeons. Tedious in triforce-fetching. Lame in story. Overly-long (like Titanic). It was not worthy of repeat play, and landed on Ebay the same month I bought it.
Someone has it in perspective
Given that the Game Cube had a lower price than the PS2 or XBox and there are still some 600 games on the system (give or take), you can't convince me it is disappointing. Disappointing would have been closer to 100-150 games, a $250-299 price tag and a 2 year shelf life. Bottom line. Given the long period of time that the Game Cube was $99-149, which is STILL less expensive than the PSP, what is there to gripe about given the GC's game library?
Couple that with the fact that people KNEW going in (or should have known) that there would be a lot of first party games and some stuff for a younger audience, you'd have to say the Game Cube lived up to expectations. Did anyone really expect a whole lot more than they ended up getting?
In General:
Nintendo may have promised the moon before the GC came out but every company says that about their console. No one goes into a console launch saying they'll be in third place and will have long stretches without AAA games. Atari or Sega never did that. Would it have been more honest or smarter for Nintendo to come out and say before the launch that some third parties would mostly ignore the Cube or that some of the top games could be found on PS2 or XBox anyway? They did the usual drill of selling the system and creating hype, same as Sega did with the Saturn and Dreamcast. Sony and Microsoft probably have an unfulfilled promise or two that I'm sure someone could dig up.
So people who had more reasonable expectations are the ones less likely to call the Game Cube disappointing. People who actually believed Nintendo's lip service, which is no different than any other company, are the most bitter.
Last edited by bangtango; 04-25-2007 at 10:33 PM.
Three points:
Regarding optical discs and video game prices: We all know that CDs and DVDs are much cheaper to manufacture than cartridges. Fine. So how come CD and DVD games still cost $40 to $60? I realize development costs are high, but the introduction of CDs and DVDs was supposed to bring video game prices down, now keep them the same.
Regarding Wind Waker: I never had the time to get very far in The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, but it received very positive reviews and high ratings across the board and the art direction is great. I like the realistic look of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, but I also like the stylized, cartoony look of Wind Waker. That said, I had more fun playing Twilight Princess on Wii than I did playing Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. The new controls really add a new dimension to the game play.
Regarding disc storage: yes, dual-layer DVDs can hold up to 8.5 GB of data, but how many games last generation actually used that much space (not counting FMV)? 1.5 GB is plenty of storage for a video game, especially one that's properly optimized and not bloatware.
I remember Nintendo being *too* conservative with the Game Cube hype before its release. Nintendo's spec sheets stated the Game Cube could display 10 to 12 million polygons per second, but talented developers like Factor 5 were able to achieve around 25 million polygons per second. That's a huge difference! It annoyed me that Nintendo decided *not* to brag about the Game Cube's capabilities at a time when Sony and Microsoft were going berserk with their insanely inflated specs.
The Game Cube is smaller and cheaper than the Xbox, but is able to produce graphics that are just as good. It's a really well-engineered console...Nintendo's best, before the Wii. They're both very streamlined and efficient.
Im probably one of the few that think the Wii is a bigger dissapointment than the Cube was. Pisspoor visuals, horrid gimicky control and sofar no games that standout in anyway from whats already in the market place, unless maybe youre a Nintendo Fanboy ?
Its just not for me
I personally liked the Cube more than the X-Box overall. I think the Cube hardware was very under utilized bye most developers.
Last edited by Candycab; 04-25-2007 at 11:55 PM.
You can have my Neo Turfmasters when you pry it from my cold dead lifeless hands !
I have to comment on this... while the tank controls are difficult to some, they are recognized as the staple of the RE series. The reason that RE2 for N64 had the "run in the direction you point the stick" controls was to simplify it for newbies... ie, you.It is a little bit like serious fighting games offering a "mash the right analog stick for special moves" option for non-hardcore fans.
With the later Cube RE sequels, remake and ports, they were back to providing only the real RE control scheme. Why? Because it makes for a more tense experience weaving amongst zombies. If you have a Mario 64-style control scheme, it is no difficulty at all just weaving through zombie hoards. It takes all the challenge away.
I really think the "tank controls" are fine by the way. They're just FPS controls from a third person perspective. They're the exact same controls in RE4 as well, but the camera has been moved to behind the character. Does that really change it that much?
The Mario 64 control scheme has its issues too. The direction you run is always changing based on where the camera is pointed, and if the perspective changes drastically, you could find yourself running in the wrong direction. (some games like Devil May Cry keep you running in the same direction even after the perspective change, until you move the stick in another direction, but that's rather clumsy too). It's not an inherantly better control scheme, as you make it out to be... just different. And it's a "different" most RE fans didn't want, because it would remove the tense challenge that is the point of survival horror.
Pushing up to move in the direction the character is facing is entirely unintuitive in a series like Resident Evil. If the character is facing left, why should I have to press up to move? If the character is facing right, why should I have to press up to move? Camera placement makes a huge difference in how useful a control scheme is. The old Resident Evil control scheme doesn't make sense, but it was implemented out of necessity because of the PlayStation's controller. Remember, the first two Resident Evil games were released on PlayStation before Sony had introduced their new Dual Shock controllers.
If Super Mario 64 had Resident Evil's control scheme throughout the entire game and not just as a parody in the Ghost House, nobody would have bought or played it.
Last edited by Rob2600; 04-26-2007 at 12:20 AM.
When it comes to third-party games, I NEVER buy the cube version. The PS2 version is about 15 dollars cheaper. So when I look-over the Cube's library, I immediately cross-out any of the third-party games. What's left is a very poor selection of Nintendo exclusives. (Hence why the Cube has left my building, but the PS2 and N64 are still here.)
Back in the PS1/N64-era of 1995-99: : CD games cost $40-50 just-released. Cart games cost $60-70 (and offered less space: 700 meg vs 16 megabytes typical). There was a clear price difference between cheap CDs and expensive ROM-based cartridges.False. N64 did have the "tank" style controls. It was the default setup.
But N64 also offered the "point in the direction you want to go" style, ala FF10's setup (and most all games using the analog stick).
Cube did not.
Cube only offered only tank style.
That made the Cube version LESS customizable than the N64 version.
Clear?
In my view, the more customization a game offers for the control, the better it is. That would make the N64 the best port of RE, since it offers the most options.
Last edited by veronica_marsfan; 04-26-2007 at 08:14 AM.
That's weird...in the stores I go to (and the one I worked in), the prices were usually the same or very similar across all three consoles. Anyway, the Game Cube versions load much faster and have better graphics (unless the development team is lacking), so it'd make sense to buy *those* versions and skip the PlayStation 2 versions.
In my area of the U.S., some stores (Funco Land, for example) were charging up to $85 for Nintendo 64 launch titles, but after that first Christmas, the prices never exceeded $60 and I remember a bunch of new releases priced at $30 and $40 later on. On average, Nintendo 64 games were priced $10 higher than PlayStation games. I didn't mind paying the extra $10 because there was practically no loading time and the graphics and controls were better.
I agree.
Last edited by Rob2600; 04-26-2007 at 10:44 AM.
Two reasons
1) Cart games were more expensive. RPG's cost $70-$80 or more in the 16-bit era, N64 games stayed expensive throughout their lifetime. They did decrease in price some, but PS1 CD games were dropping quickly and being released in budget format as well.
1) CD/DVD media is now getting more expensive (only in the last year with he $60 PS3 and X360 games) because systems are being sold at greater losses, so the prices of games need to go up to make the manufacturer's money.
2) Cart games were more expensive, both for the N64 era and before that- RPG's especially were in the $70-$80 range.
Here's my feedback thread: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...ht=FantasiaWHT
I'll paraphrase what a reviewer once said about peoples responses to Jet Set Radio.
If you don't like Wind Waker, I don't like you.
Other exclusives that no one has mentioned yet:
Billy Hatcher and The Giant Egg (the last GOOD game Sega's made?)
Baten Katios (especially the excellent sequel)
Cubivore (brilliant.)
Custom Robo (another underrated title.)
Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat (one of the most raw fun games on the market.)
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (too bad no one appreciated this excellent multiplayer game.)
Go! Go! Hypergrind! (Spumco? Yes please.)
Killer 7 (another lose exclusive that plays infinately better on the GC. Suda 51 won't even acknowledge the PS2 version was his game)
Mario Kart: Double Dash!!! (the way to play multiplayer Mario Kart.)
Odama (brilliant.)
Pac-Man Vs. (brilliant.)
Phantasy Star Online: Episode I & II+ (only way to get this version.)
Chibi Robo (brilliant.)
Gotcha Force (Virtual-On? Yes please.)
Naurto (Raizing may be stuck with it, but they're making some fantastic fighting games.)
And to re-add the obvious.
ETERNAL DARKNESS
You add all the staples:
Mario Sunshine (I, again, don't understand the hate...)
Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Super Smash Brothers: Melee (how could a Nintendo fan be "bored" with this game? It's fucking baffling. The game is nothing but a huge homage to Nintendo)
Metroid Prime 1/2
Animal Crossing (if your "real life" is like AC, you have a strange life indeed... This isn't the damn Sims.)
Ikaruga
Mario Strikers/Golf/Baseball/Tennis
Zelda Collection (Ocarina, Mask, Zelda I, and Zelda II? Yes please.)
Paper Mario 2
Pikmiin 1/2
Resident Evil 4
Tales of Symphonia
Wario Ware
Wario World
Rogue Squadron III
Soul Calibur II (w/ Link!?!?!)
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes
On and on...
I don't see why there's a discussion here. The N64 obviously had the weaker library. They took no chances with the console. There's no Cubivore to point at on the N64. There's no Jungle Beat. There's no Odama. There's certainly no Killer 7. There's no Pac-Man Vs. There's no Ikaruga. There's no Chibi Robo. There's no Skies of Arcadia...
Even if you don't like these games you have to acknowledge that there was an effort to do something unique on the Cube. The N64 was 3D platformers, Mario Kart, Golden Eye, No Mercy, and 3D Zelda. And Ocarina seems down right primitive compared to the unbridled joy of Wind Waker.
Come on. Really. I know arguing on the interwebs about video games is pretty stupid. But really...
Was this post a parody of pro Gamecube posts or something?
First of all, let go....Gamecubers please, just LET GO...of Resident Evil 0, Twin Snakes, Skies of Arcadia, etc. They are remakes. They are the gaming equivalent of Peter Jackson's King Kong, Richard Linklater's Bad News Bears, and Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead...they're decent remakes, but ultimately only shadows of the originals.
Secondly, don't give us Custom Robo and Killer 7. Those games are marginal at best, and totally suck at worst. (come on dude, Custom Robo just sucks. Honestly.)
Stop it with Ikaruga. Within a couple months it'll be on XBLA and no one will give a shit.
We already know SM64 is superior to Sunshine, but let's say those two cancel each other out. What are you left with now? After you get rid of all the remakes, the marginal games, games that are on other consoles (like the Dreamcast for goodness sakes), gimmick games like Pac Man Vs, Jungle Beat and that other stupid bongo game, and regurgitation of N64 games, what does that leave you with?
I'll admit there's room for argument, but don't ask "why there's a discussion here". Give me a break.
The same can be said for the PlayStation 2.
No, it's not a joke.
I can't help it if you have no taste Kid Ice. Killer 7 was a brilliant, distinctly stylish story wrapped around a rail shooter. You might as well hate on Panzer Dragoon. Custom Robo has a lot going for it with how mechs you can customize your mechs for some fun varied play. Simple game-play? Check. Pretty easy? Check. But can't you say that of a lot of games these days? To write it off as "suck" is harsh.
Who cares if Ikaruga is about to make it to XBLA, it's not out now and the only place you can play it stateside is on the Cube. Should we not care about Virtual Fighter 5 on the PS3 since it's going to be on the Xbox this summer?
Remakes and sequels are going to be found on every single console.
Stack up game to game and there's no discussion. Actually, I'd be open for a discussion of both libraries if there weren't already such close-minded "discussion" in front of my post. I'm no fan of the N64 but I'm not making posts about it.
Frankly that's insane. Jungle Beat is a gimmick on so far as Majora's Mask is. You talk about marginal games. Take away Zelda and Mario and what is the 64 left with? I'll give you Starfox. I might even give you Goldeneye. What's left? A bunch of identical Rare platformers? There are some solid games on the 64 for sure. But let's get real. The Cube stretched itself in some awesome directions. Even if you didn't like Odama, Jungle Beat, and Pac-Man Vs. you have to respect them for the effort.We already know SM64 is superior to Sunshine, but let's say those two cancel each other out. What are you left with now? After you get rid of all the remakes, the marginal games, games that are on other consoles (like the Dreamcast for goodness sakes), gimmick games like Pac Man Vs, Jungle Beat and that other stupid bongo game, and regurgitation of N64 games, what does that leave you with?
I might as well say... why should the "move forward" button change based on perspective? Shouldn't the button for an action stay the same, no matter what the camera position is?
This is pretty much like the old "which analog stick look is correct... point up to look up? or point down to look up, flightstick-style?" debate. It's a matter of preference.
For the record I remember hating the control scheme back in 1998 as well.... but you should see me play on it now. It makes it play like an FPS, as opposed to a platformer, and I like that skill is involved.
Weaving through zombies Devil May Cry style? Pathetically easy. But they up the ante by making that an action game, demanding more than just dodging zombies. RE with that control scheme is "easy mode", man. It ruins it.
RE2 for N64 was a port by an American studio. They added a newbie mode... Mario 64 control style. It didn't re-appear in future versions because it detracts from RE-style play.When it comes to third-party games, I NEVER buy the cube version. The PS2 version is about 15 dollars cheaper. So when I look-over the Cube's library, I immediately cross-out any of the third-party games. What's left is a very poor selection of Nintendo exclusives. (Hence why the Cube has left my building, but the PS2 and N64 are still here.)
Back in the PS1/N64-era of 1995-99: : CD games cost $40-50 just-released. Cart games cost $60-70 (and offered less space: 700 meg vs 16 megabytes typical). There was a clear price difference between cheap CDs and expensive ROM-based cartridges. False. N64 did have the "tank" style controls. It was the default setup.
But N64 also offered the "point in the direction you want to go" style, ala FF10's setup (and most all games using the analog stick).
Cube did not.
Cube only offered only tank style.
That made the Cube version LESS customizable than the N64 version.
Clear?
In my view, the more customization a game offers for the control, the better it is. That would make the N64 the best port of RE, since it offers the most options.
Still... they should give you the choice, I agree. It doesn't impact it that much...
On the flipside... the Silent Hill series on PS2 gave us both Tank Controls and Mario 64 controls in the options menu.... But then they gave us 100% M64 controls in SH4. I hated it. It turned survival horror into Devil May Cry without supermoves. I like to be able to feel the weight of the character in survival horror... how you can't just weave through characters with ease, you have to adjust all of your turns and forward moves carefully. The way you will tend to back up from a zombie reloading your gun, rather than just sprinting backwards to safety and firing away. It makes more a much more tense experience.... certainly the original point of RE.
These aren't 3D platformer action games, basically, they're slow-moving normal person survival simulators.... on purpose.
And if you ask me the PS2 was kind of a disappointment too, but the Cube was a bigger disappointment.
Gee then an awful lot of people must have "no taste" just like me, since just about everyone I know thought Killer 7 and Custom Robo sucked balls.
But why is it that just about every other "great" Cube game can be played elsewhere. And don't hang your hat on the "stateside" thing, DC Ikaruga was probably the most popular DC import.
Now you seem to understand.
Of course. But if you look at the N64 sequels; let's say Star Fox, Mario Kart, SM64, Zelda...those games all made the jump to 3D from the SNES. Then when those games came to the Cube, they were basically just the N64 versions enhanced (except for Star Fox which they turned into a dipshit adventure game)
This is the second time from you we've heard there's "no discussion" and here you are still discussing it. There's NOTHING on the Gamecube close to Goldeneye or SM64 for starters. What you're going to tell me Killer 7 and Custom Robo? Give me a break. The best game on the Cube was ported to the PS2 for Christ's sake.
We see now that anyone who disagrees with you has no taste and is insane. But I'll give my opinion anyway. Those stupid bongo games suck. This isn't about respect for being "different". Your argument that the Gamecube software library is SO MUCH better than the N64 library that there isn't room for argument is ridiculous. The N64 had some outstanding innovations (like the Rumble Pak) but that kind of nonsense has nothing to do with it. Like I said earlier, the GC has great multiplayer games, Pac Man Vs. being one of them. Awesome directions? Like what? Beating on a bongo and connecting one of those crappy old GBAs with no backlight? Give me a break.
I don't know about anyone else but I bought a new N64 when it was still being sold in stores and bought both the Game Cube ($60) and PS2 ($90) used. I don't regret any of those purchases so as far as I am concerned, I'm not disappointed in any of them. Having 90-100 good games in a library only matters to people who have time to actually play through that many games on a single system. Some people might but I don't. Not when there are new games coming out all the time and when I am still sitting on other games I already owned which I haven't played yet. Not to mention what I find when I go out buying stuff.
I thought the Gamecube was dissapointing too. Most of the big titles were sequels or remakes, which to me indicates a stagnation of creativity in the development teams. (Of course, that same complaint applies to the current generation of systems too. Final Fantasy XIII? Once you get a series over 10 installments, you start to move into "porno movie numbering.") The fact that most of the 3rd party games were available cross-platform also hurt the Cube, since the only exclusive titles were Nintendo's worn out sequels. (I don't think that the loss of Rare hurt Nintendo -- I think that Rare is horribly overrated as a developer. Their games have a cult following, but I can't think of a single Rare game that isn't a frustrating pain-party for me.)
If I had a Jynx think of the things we can do together. She also kisses alot.
Not to mention her breast plates is obviously hiding something nice
The of Jynx as a XXX doll pokemon. -Rugal Sizzler
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