Very similar to how I feel about the Wii. I bought it for the 1st party A-list titles and that's it. If an interesting game comes down the line (RE Umbrella Chronicles for example)...great. In the meantime, I'm not going to be holding my breath for a ton of "must have" 3rd party games.Originally Posted by Merlins Beard
"One of the ways I gauge a DS game is by recharges. "...Tycho (Penny Arcade)
I didn't know about a Fatal Frame IV...That news made me squeal like an excited little girl, which, incidentally, is how I often sound when playing a Fatal Frame game...though a bit more scared than excited.
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Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga and MLB Power Pros have been receiving great reviews, above 8.0. Reviewers claim they are polished, full-featured, fun games. How is that lame?
Do games have to be gory and full of violence to be cool?
The overall scores are slightly lower for the wii version than the ps3 or 360. Thats an odd way of showing preference for the wii version.
I almost thought you were serious. Its good to know even with all the bickering he still have a sense of humor about things.Reviewers also seem to prefer high quality first-person shooters on the Wii.
Surely he meant the controls, which after using I greatly prefer.
But to prefer the FPSs as a whole? No.
Last edited by Merlins Beard; 11-20-2007 at 08:05 PM.
I think the hardcore gamers really need some perspective:
At $250 for the console and a pack-in game, the Wii is a tremendous value. There hasn't been a launch price like this since the Dreamcast, and adjusted for inflation (and in light of the pricing of the current competition), it's the best console value at launch, like, ever.
The drawback is that the unit is drastically underpowered in comparison. But then again, if it was comparable to the 360 pr PS3, it would have been price comparably, and it would not be selling like it is.
I got my Wii for ZTP, SMG, and WiiSports. So I'm not disappointed (actually, I'm more than impressed by SMG's graphics). But for those that are, there are other consoles available, and there's really no reason to complain about the Wii's lack of AAA 3rd party exclusives. Because it's just not going to have them.
But again... those are old. Capcom's not making a "next Dead Rising". IMO.
I don't mean to say that the Wii has an abundance of amazing, high-profile third-party exclusives. I'm just saying that the situation isn't dismal. This Wii definitely has its share of third-party support; this isn't another N64 situation.A few come to mind, like Silent Hill V, Ninja Gaiden 2 (can't come now, since it's an exclusive), etc. What I'm referring to is that developers are no longer surprised by the Wii
success and are supposedly jumping ship from the 360 and PS3 en masse, but we're still seeing mostly ports and multi-platform games. If the Wii has shorter development times and such great 3rd party support, shouldn't there be more announcements then? The DS has it, which is why it got the next DQ game. I've been hearing this argument about long development times for a year already. That shouldn't stop announcements, at least.
Also, the nature of the Wii is such that it's very conducive to lower profile games. But I also don't think it's fair to completely dismiss low-key releases. Brain Age for DS was quite low-profile before it came out, and it turned out to be a sensation. Katamari Damacy was downright obscure while it was in development, but after it came out, high praise in the media and word of mouth made it a pretty big hit (and the price point also helped). Hell, even with Halo, I don't remember anybody talking about it 6 months before release. Just because a title doesn't have ridiculous amounts of hype or a roman numeral at the end doesn't mean it's necessarily irrelevant.
I can see this worry -- there have been a lot of cash runs on the Wii. But the DS was like that early on too. I know people are sick of hearing "the Wii is just like the DS!" but I swear, a lot of negative comments I hear about the Wii are total deja-fucking-vu.I think Monster Hunter 3 is now Wii-only. That's a decent list to begin with at least, and hopefully these will be made for the hardware and not just cash runs. That's my biggest worry with the Wii.
Well, is that reflective of the high quality of their 3rd party lineups (relative to Nintendo), or the low quality of their 1st party lineups (relative to Nintendo)? Perhaps a combination of the two?Neither the PS3 or 360 has as huge a gap between 1st and 3rd party software as the Wii has.
360 is a year older. How many million sellers did the 360 have as of a year ago?That's what has many developers concerned about it. And any console with the brutal and monopolistic licensing agreements the NES had would do well. If you want to talk about high sellers, why not compare how Nintendo's games have sold with the best 3rd party ones? There have been more than a few million sellers on the 360 since it launched, even with Halo, which came out only a month ago.
The difference is about 2.3 million and the Wii's total userbase is only about 6.2 million. That makes it 37%.There are only about 2 million more 360s in the U.S. than Wiis,
"Million-seller" status generally refers to worldwide sales. At least that's what I was referring to.and according to the site you mentioned, neither Red Steel nor Rayman are million sellers, and nine out of the top ten best sellers on the Wii are Nintendo games.
Are you sure it's not the other way around? Maybe they aren't doing anywhere near as well because they tend to half-ass it. I mean, a port of a two year old PS2 game doesn't necessarily have the greatest sales potential (RE4 is a very big exception). Rayman and Red Steel sold well, and they were original games with broad appeal.Heck for this month alone half the Wii's top ten are Nintendo games. That's what I'm talking about. Nintendo's making a killing, and while 3rd parties aren't doing bad, they aren't doing anywhere near as well, which is probably why they tend to half ass it with their releases.
It sold half as much on a console with 3/4 of the userbase and no previous entry in the series. There is also possibly a production issue for the Wii because the guitars are different (and never previously produced, unlike 360). I see stacks (literally) of the 360 version at every game-selling store I go to, but the Wii version is out of stock at many places. In all, the sales (comparatively speaking) are about what one would expect given the circumstances.You mentioned Guitar Hero 3, which is interesting. It came out on the 360 very close to Halo 3, and it's already nearing a million units. On the Wii, it's barely reaching 500k. That's not a bad number by any means, but you don't think Activision notices that it's basically sold half as much on a console without the biggest release in gaming history and direct competition from Rock Band? Something's up there.
According to IGN.com:I almost thought you were serious. Its good to know even with all the bickering he still have a sense of humor about things.
"Metroid Prime 3's gameplay is more responsive and precise than any console experience to date. ... Not only do the new controls respond quicker and with more precision than any dual-analog-helmed FPS ever created, but the gesture system works brilliantly, too."
"Medal of Honor Heroes 2 controls better than any other home console FPS ever. ... you'll be able to point and shoot with a level of speed and accuracy previously unseen on Wii or any other home system. ... If you thought Metroid Prime 3 got it right, wait until you get your hands on this one."
In what way is that not serious?
Last edited by Rob2600; 11-20-2007 at 11:11 PM.
Hardcore? I say fuck the hardcore gamers. I can't relate to a group that is shallow, closed minded and change adverse. Some of the best games released are shunned by the hardcore crowd. Killer 7 anyone? How the hell Okami didn't sell a million copies when Madden does within a week year after year is beyond me and frankly makes me feel sick. Hardcore gamers don't know what they want or what good is. They are trend followers that only care about keeping up with their precious label. Are you seriously going to put stock into their Wii-phobias? That makes you just as bad as them, if not worse. A member of this board should know better... seriously.
How is the Wii deficient when the 360, while having a good selection of games, lives fast and dies young and the PS3 has only a handful of good games - most of them being Sony published btw. OMG! Where are the third parties at?
Can you say double standard? If your a hardcore gamer, probably not.
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As someone who puts a majority of my gaming hours into FPS's, let me say the above statements are absolute bunk. It's just shitty, laughable hyperbole from people that race through games to meet a deadline.
I had alot of fun with Metroid Prime 3, but it doesn't hold a candle to certain (unnamed to avoid flamebait) 360/PS3 shooters. This whole sub-topic is hilarious to people who actually play these games on a regular basis.
"One of the ways I gauge a DS game is by recharges. "...Tycho (Penny Arcade)
Where was the original XBOX at this point in its life? (compared to the PS3) What about the Genny? TG-16? Since we have a new underdog on the block, I'm wondering how it compares to our other underdogs.
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The Metroid Prme series is not FPS, it is First Person Action Adventure.
They patented the name "Lost Planet Colonies" a few weeks ago, and company reps have said that a sequel is likely. I wouldn't be surprised if DR followed suit.
It's definitely better than it was on the N64 and even Game Cube. It's the focus those 3rd parties are placing on the Wii that concerns me.I don't mean to say that the Wii has an abundance of amazing, high-profile third-party exclusives. I'm just saying that the situation isn't dismal. This Wii definitely has its share of third-party support; this isn't another N64 situation.
It doesn't make it irrelevant, but these are the flagship series that gamers recognize. Nntendo doesn't cater specifically to gamers anymore, and that it might have something to do with their absence. Take Zak and Wiki, for example. It's a great game, but do you think it's going to sell big numbers? Big names are important, especially around the 4th quarter. Why do you think Super Mario Galaxy came out a month before Christmas?Also, the nature of the Wii is such that it's very conducive to lower profile games. But I also don't think it's fair to completely dismiss low-key releases. Brain Age for DS was quite low-profile before it came out, and it turned out to be a sensation. Katamari Damacy was downright obscure while it was in development, but after it came out, high praise in the media and word of mouth made it a pretty big hit (and the price point also helped). Hell, even with Halo, I don't remember anybody talking about it 6 months before release. Just because a title doesn't have ridiculous amounts of hype or a roman numeral at the end doesn't mean it's necessarily irrelevant.
How did the 360 sell in that first year compared to the Wii? With as many Wiis as Nintendo's been selling, you'd expect 3rd party numbers to be higher.360 is a year older. How many million sellers did the 360 have as of a year ago?
I was only referring to U.S. sales, as with the dismal performance of the 360 and the lackluster run of the PS3 in Japan so far, U.S. it doesn't do much to help Japan for those two."Million-seller" status generally refers to worldwide sales. At least that's what I was referring to.
Here's the problem: the argument that 3rd parties aren't selling well because they're half assing it goes directly against the whole "developers are flocking to the Wii" argument. It's a direct contradiction. If 3rd parties do prefer the Wii because it's cheaper to develop for and it has a huge user base, and if they're "shifting their focus (someone please tell me what this means), then why are they half-assing it? Shouldn't they be putting their best work on the Wii because the install base is there and it's cheaper to develop for?Are you sure it's not the other way around? Maybe they aren't doing anywhere near as well because they tend to half-ass it. I mean, a port of a two year old PS2 game doesn't necessarily have the greatest sales potential (RE4 is a very big exception). Rayman and Red Steel sold well, and they were original games with broad appeal.
I hear people talking about companies "shifting their focus," but it looks like the only shifting being done is really just ports and licensed shovelware.
Guitar Hero had never been produced on the 360 until part 2, and part 3 was the first one on the PS3. Neither console had production issues.It sold half as much on a console with 3/4 of the userbase and no previous entry in the series. There is also possibly a production issue for the Wii because the guitars are different (and never previously produced, unlike 360). I see stacks (literally) of the 360 version at every game-selling store I go to, but the Wii version is out of stock at many places. In all, the sales (comparatively speaking) are about what one would expect given the circumstances.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl is coming out in February and will be huge. High quality, big name games sell no matter when they're released.
Wow
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Wii and 360 are apples and oranges. You cant really compare them to be anywhere remotely the same gaming experience. Me personally, love both for different reasons. I know that I will be playing a shitload of DS and Wii games for the THanksgiving. After the party, I will resort to a cave and play Mass Effect for a month.
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I don't think that's as accurate a mentality as people portray it to be. Take my nephew as an example. Last generation he had a PS2, XBOX, and a GC. So far this generation, he has a Wii. It's a game system to him and it has the games he wants to play. Not everybody is going to buy two systems, one for games and one for other kinds of games. He wanted a game system and the Wii is the one he chose.
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I meant that Capcom isn't producing a new game that is in the same situation as Dead Rising was, not that they're not making a sequel.
Of course big names sell. But Wii doesn't exactly need the help right now, so who cares? It's really a non-issue until at least next year. At which point the Wii may or may not have higher-profile third-party games.It doesn't make it irrelevant, but these are the flagship series that gamers recognize. Nntendo doesn't cater specifically to gamers anymore, and that it might have something to do with their absence. Take Zak and Wiki, for example. It's a great game, but do you think it's going to sell big numbers? Big names are important, especially around the 4th quarter. Why do you think Super Mario Galaxy came out a month before Christmas?
I do think they half-assed a lot of early Wii games. Notice I said half-assed, past tense. I think they will be putting better/best work on the Wii in the future. And to a lesser extent this has been shown in the present. I don't see how that's a contradiction in argument -- it's just a description of changing conditions.Here's the problem: the argument that 3rd parties aren't selling well because they're half assing it goes directly against the whole "developers are flocking to the Wii" argument. It's a direct contradiction. If 3rd parties do prefer the Wii because it's cheaper to develop for and it has a huge user base, and if they're "shifting their focus (someone please tell me what this means), then why are they half-assing it? Shouldn't they be putting their best work on the Wii because the install base is there and it's cheaper to develop for?
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