XBOX360 Ban (modded consoles) class action lawsuit - update - I got my stuff back :D

[TonyTheTiger]

If you don't break the rules you have nothing to fear. The only ones who fear/condemn punishment are the ones violating the rules.

That's a nice soundbyte but it fails for the simple fact that in all legal matters there are limits imposed by law. No court ever OKs a law on the grounds that "if you don't break it you have nothing to fear." In the criminal realm, the Constitution sets the limits. With something like contracts, there are rules regulating whether the terms were unconscionable among other things.

Those are just examples but the point is that there's never a time where it's ok for an unjust rule to stand simply because "if you don't break it, you have nothing to fear." Could Microsoft come and take the 360 from the person? Should the company be allowed to do that? If we believe we have some personal private interest in the property (as in, we're not simply borrowing it) then no.

[Porksta]

That's a nice soundbyte but it fails for the simple fact that in all legal matters there are limits imposed by law. No court ever OKs a law on the grounds that "if you don't break it you have nothing to fear." In the criminal realm, the Constitution sets the limits. With something like contracts, there are rules regulating whether the terms were unconscionable among other things. Could Microsoft come and take the 360 from the person? Should the company be allowed to do that?

Microsoft should not take away modded 360s from people. The government should. It is illegal to own a device used to play stolen games.

[TonyTheTiger]

That's an oversimplification. At one point, Sony (I believe it was Sony) got sued because it was selling VCRs. The argument was that Sony was selling a device that was being used to violate copyrights (ala, tape record TV shows). The court sided with Sony on the grounds that, although that use of a VCR might be problematic, the device itself served other purposes beyond copyright infringement. I think we can agree that an Xbox 360, even a modified one, can serve more purposes than playing copied games. Granted, I'm not nearly naive enough to think that most people aren't using it for that and that alone but the "infringing device" is really the modchip rather than the entire console. And in the case of software mods, well, that's another can of worms.

But nobody can come and actually take the entire system away. What can happen, and this is what happened to Lik-Sang, is the courts can go after people and companies selling modchips on the grounds that those devices don't serve a non-infringing purpose, unlike a VCR. Microsoft might be allowed to do what cable providers do and send a signal that renders the infringing hardware (the modchip) nonfunctional. In fact, firmware updates have been used to do things like that. But there are limits to what they can do. A cable provider, for instance, can't send a signal that not only fries the descrambler but also destroys the TV set it's attached to.

[Porksta]

I understand where you are coming from. It didn't occur to me that people using these modded 360s can also, if they choose, play legit games.

But to get back on topic, all Microsoft did was disable the systems that are illegaly (according to the TOS) modified in any way, shape or form. For that reason, and that reason alone, the people have no case and I do not pity anyone that was affected by Microsoft's decision. Again, if they had simply followed the rules, they would have no problems. A vast majority of 360 owners have had no problems obeying the rules set forth.

[Bojay1997]

That's an oversimplification. At one point, Sony (I believe it was Sony) got sued because it was selling VCRs. The argument was that Sony was selling a device that was being used to violate copyrights (ala, tape record TV shows). The court sided with Sony on the grounds that, although that use of a VCR might be problematic, the device itself served other purposes beyond copyright infringement. I think we can agree that an Xbox 360, even a modified one, can serve more purposes than playing copied games. Granted, I'm not nearly naive enough to think that most people aren't using it for that and that alone but the "infringing device" is really the modchip rather than the entire console. And in the case of software mods, well, that's another can of worms.

But nobody can come and actually take the entire system away. What can happen, and this is what happened to Lik-Sang, is the courts can go after people and companies selling modchips on the grounds that those devices don't serve a non-infringing purpose, unlike a VCR. Microsoft might be allowed to do what cable providers do and send a signal that renders the infringing hardware (the modchip) nonfunctional. In fact, firmware updates have been used to do things like that. But there are limits to what they can do. A cable provider, for instance, can't send a signal that not only fries the descrambler but also destroys the TV set it's attached to.

On the cable example, you're missing the point that the cable companies are allowed to fry (i.e destroy or take by your reasoning) the illegal box. The cable companies didn't provide those boxes, people bought them from third party vendors. Microsoft is actually doing far less here since people can still use their Xbox 360 to play legit games.

[Porksta]

On the cable example, you're missing the point that the cable companies are allowed to fry (i.e destroy or take by your reasoning) the illegal box. The cable companies didn't provide those boxes, people bought them from third party vendors. Microsoft is actually doing far less here since people can still use their Xbox 360 to play legit games.

The wording was a little weird but I think he said they can't fry the box and television, just the box.