Classic Gaming Vs Emulation

[josekortez]

I recently got my hands on a GP2X, and it is my first attempt at emulation. Before now, I have been very keen on owning physical copies of everything I want. Money and time wasn't a factor until recently. I know it's not the newest version of the GP hardware, but it is pretty great to be able to place the Genesis games I love without having to pull my system out of its crate and then file through a cardboard box full of games to find the cartridge I want to play. When I get an SD card reader and another SD card, I plan to try some homebrew GP2X games because I like the device so much.

[NE146]

I gotta say I emulate anywhere I can... on the PSP, the PC, the Wii, and the Xbox (probably the best) and really have no problems with it.

However I think I'm pretty aware of the differences since I used to think it was a lot of fun to set up a real 2600, 5200, NES, Colecovision, Turbografx and others, as well as their emulated versions via an Xbox on an SDTV, and instantly (by switching channels or video inputs) do an A/B comparison and see how close I could get it to look. I'd do this with different emulators for the same console, and if they get updated I'd check it again. Good times.

The truth is I could never EXACTLY match the output of the real thing on a regular SDTV although I've gotten pretty close. There is definitely a difference though, as far as dimensions and aspect ratio. You can resize and tweak to your hearts content but it's very hard to truly match. Also it differs in little details you wouldn't think about until you see it up close and personal like the glowing "spokes" in your ship in 5200 Space Dungeon. also the overall "look" and color is always different.. probably scanlines or something. Also as said above sound is another major factor with some emulators falling just short enough of the actual sound to make a difference. To me this is more annoying. Does it matter in the end though as far as playing games? I guess not really to me for the most part. But if you're a purist it might. I also have to admit I probably wouldn't be so dismissive of it if I also didn't have the real thing available as my comfort blanket if I ever really wanted it.

Also there ARE consoles that I can't really stand playing emu'd versions of.. and the Atari VCS is one. Playing it on a D-Pad just feels all wrong and I can't do well in some of the faster games with it. Those games simply need that 2600 Joystick to me, and that buzzing display on a regular SDTV. If I'm playing a game to just check it out, emu'd with savestates is fine.

Last thing I'd like to say is my prefered method is obviously the console emulation on the xbox/wii because while PC emulation is definitely superior all around, even with a pad I just have a really hard time sitting on a desk playing something like Simon's Quest on a computer monitor. Also, playing puzzle games like Adventures of Lolo / Eggerland on a PSP while sitting on the crapper = 100% WIN.

[Ed Oscuro]

Why do people insist on buying USB adapters for PS1 controllers for emulation? Really, they don't beat Logitech and some Thrustmaster controllers, perhaps Saitek too.

For USB PSX-compatible stuff, a Xbox 360 pad is pretty good.

For digital eight-way games, the Saturn USB2 pad is good.

Yeah, I don't get USB adapters either, they just add lag - maybe not much though.

I'm starting to have trouble on Master System emulators. I tried both Fusion and Regen, but both had a good bit of lag between the time I pressed a button and when something happened onscreen.

Probably some (another?) issue with your PC's configuration.

[Rickstilwell1]

I'd also like to add that emulation expands my gaming habits. Since emulation and real games play so much differently, it gives me a reason to play through every game I actually like twice - once on hardware and once on emulator with savestates and fast forwarding when I want to speed parts of the game up.

It's like I'm trying to build up a collection of complete save battery files acquired through my own work as well as save states for game endings of games that don't save. I know those cartridge batteries are going to die on me someday so emulation removes the frustration of that fact in long RPGs. I actually tend to beat pre-Playstation RPGs on emulators first because of that fact. I spent a long long time getting through the NES Final Fantasy trilogy and when I was done I was pleased so I bought repros of the two unreleased in USA games so I could enjoy them on hardware in what I would call "hard mode." Now I'm trying to beat the Dragon Warrior series and it is taking forever. I'm stuck at the end of Dragon Warrior 2 where you have to spend days leveling up to fight the end boss. (Thank you fast-forward option, it still takes days using this method....)

[Ed Oscuro]

Since emulation and real games play so much differently, it gives me a reason to play through every game I actually like twice - once on hardware and once on emulator with savestates and fast forwarding when I want to speed parts of the game up.

Heh, it's true. Even when the emulation is accurate, it's a different way to play. A bit like playing some early Toaplan "mash the button" arcade shooter with autofire circuits and without.

That said, I only tend to play any given game one way or the other. I did just recently get a real copy of Sweet Home, though, so I'll try to play that one in the original language sometime (played through the translated ROM some years back).

[tomaitheous]

Why do people insist on buying USB adapters for PS1 controllers for emulation? Really, they don't beat Logitech and some Thrustmaster controllers, perhaps Saitek too.

I've had one since they first started coming out... (probably going on 8-9 years I think). I like the PS1 dual shock d-pad (using the "PS-one" version of the controller. White matches my PC case), better than the PC game pads out there. And I'm used to this shape, too. I've used a 360 controller before as well, but the d-pad is poor. Which is too bad since the I love the everything else about that controller.

To the original poster, yeah - I can see those points. But I personally like the look of the original NES NTSC output. And emulation gives me this:
http://alexandria66.2mhost.com/~pcen...termaster1.PNG
http://alexandria66.2mhost.com/~pcen...crystalis1.PNG
Nestopia does an awesome job at this, as well as letting you control all those emulated artifact, blurring, tint, saturation, fringing, screen curvature, etc. It's perfect.

So I'm happy playing NES emulation on my PC, with my 19" PC display. My real NES system sits on the shelf along with the large stack of games for it. Every once in a while, I'll fire it up. Then I quickly remember why I use emulation over the damn finicky cart connector (and having to sit somewhere else to play the games, and not in my comfy computer chair).

Edit: fixed links

[Eyedunno]

It's like I'm trying to build up a collection of complete save battery files acquired through my own work as well as save states for game endings of games that don't save. I know those cartridge batteries are going to die on me someday so emulation removes the frustration of that fact in long RPGs.

Indeed. This is the #1 reason I got an SNES PowerPak (the other reason was for the potential for homebrew, which hasn't been realized yet, but maybe someday...), though it also turns out to be really nice to have almost my entire collection on one cart. I also have a Mash-Mods programmer that I used to back up my saves that weren't already lost, like my near-perfect FFV save.

Edit:

I've used a 360 controller before as well, but the d-pad is poor. Which is too bad since the I love the everything else about that controller.

Yeah. The 360 controller might well by my favorite controller ever if not for that horrible, horrible d-pad, which is probably in the top three worst I've ever used.

As for emulation, yeah, I agree with others that the best application of emulation is in the portable arena. It's so awesome to be able to bring a whole bunch of classics on the go, even if they don't play 100% perfectly.

[tentencanidae]

I think after years of just assuming that the real games are better than emulation, simply becasue they're real... I've changed my mind.

I haven't changed my answer though. I still think the real games are better. But think about it with an iPod perspective.

If you, like me, were a child growing up during retro gaming years.. Then when you play your old games, it goes far deeper. It brings back memories of my old childhood friends, going with mom or grandma to buy the games at Toys"R"Us or Bradlees (Back when you took a card from a plastic pocket to the register for the real game). Even places like Consumers or Alexanders (If you're from Northern NJ).

I feel like people from my generation (Circa 1980) have a special bond with the products of our childhood. The 80's we're the years of excess. There were the largest marketing campaigns of all-time. Parents generally had more money, regardless of social class, to buy kids games and toys.

Nothing beats grabbing a Coca-Cola at a Pizzaria, and remembering pumping quarters into Ms. Pac-Man and Arkanoid... Nothing beats catching a glimpse or hearing mention of classic Transformers or He-Man... and certainly, there's nothing like playing Super Mario.

As for everyone else, emulation seems like the better way to go in every aspect. These games were never dear childhood items to them. They can fit every NES game ever made on a thumbdrive, with an emulator that runs off of it. It's nostalgic to THEM, as a part of realizing the history of gaming. It's roots.

I on the other hand, have much stronger bonds with these games.

Would the game be just as good if I had a modded USB NES Gamepad? Probably.
Would the gameplay or storyline be different? Probably not.
Would it still just not be the same? Absolutely.

I buy NES games because it keeps me young at heart. My body gets older (29), and my life moves on... but I still have a sacred place I can disappear to for a few hours, and be a little kid all over again. It's cheesy... but true.

On the other hand... I wasn't involved with Amiga, Commodore 64, or Amstrad.. So emulator's on my hacked XBOX are perfect for me. I can still try an old classic out when I'd like, but I have no lifelong bond with those games.

[Emuaust]

This sums up perfectly my opinions on emulation, Its a great way to play games and if you dont have that nostalgic attatchment to the system then its the way to go.

[arcadecup]

I dislike emulation it never feels right playing the game without its soul (original hardware). I only use it for reference nothing else.

[BetaWolf47]

I've had one since they first started coming out... (probably going on 8-9 years I think). I like the PS1 dual shock d-pad (using the "PS-one" version of the controller. White matches my PC case), better than the PC game pads out there. And I'm used to this shape, too. I've used a 360 controller before as well, but the d-pad is poor. Which is too bad since the I love the everything else about that controller.

Well, that's the thing. At least 90% of all PC controllers nowadays are modeled after the Dual Shock. It's not like you need to get used to a new shape or design. Logitech Dual Action, for example, is almost an exact clone of the Dual Shock 2, but uses a different finish, different button design, a different dpad, and a slightly different shape. These differences are, in my and others' opinions, improvements. The buttons give a more pleasant feel upon pressing them, the analog sticks are pinpoint accurate, the finish prevents your hands from slipping, the dpad is among the most accurate ever, and the different design conforms to your hand. This is just one controller as an example, though.

Even playing an NES game on PC using a PC controller feels more natural to me :P

[Sabz5150]

Classic gaming on the original console because Coke from a glass bottle just tastes better.

Its the real thing or nothing.

[tomaitheous]

Well, that's the thing. At least 90% of all PC controllers nowadays are modeled after the Dual Shock. It's not like you need to get used to a new shape or design. Logitech Dual Action, for example, is almost an exact clone of the Dual Shock 2, but uses a different finish, different button design, a different dpad, and a slightly different shape. These differences are, in my and others' opinions, improvements. The buttons give a more pleasant feel upon pressing them, the analog sticks are pinpoint accurate, the finish prevents your hands from slipping, the dpad is among the most accurate ever, and the different design conforms to your hand. This is just one controller as an example, though.

Even playing an NES game on PC using a PC controller feels more natural to me :P

I've tried many a PC gamepad over the years. I only have one PSX to USB adapter, so I've had to buy additional PC gamepads for two player games and such. I have been through quite a bit of controllers (including logictech). They feel cheap. They definite don't last long. There decent, but nothing I've experienced with better than the PSX dual shock controller, for retro gaming. I rarely use the analog control stick of the dual shock because I hate the delay you get (for digital dpad games, it never translates correctly because of the "threshold" point). Nothing can replace a dpad for games made with for a dpad (except maybe a digital stick, but even then...). If I had to rate my favorite PC gamepad, it would have to be the MS sidewinder gamepad (usb version). The Dpad was nice and the button layout was nice for arcade emulation (SF2 style). The controller itself was comfortable and didn't feel cheap.

Also, to the guy that was nit picking: PSX=PS1. Get over it, already

[kedawa]

Years of emulating have made me completely intolerant of the flickering mess that most NES games turn into on real hardware, but other than that I do prefer playing the real thing.

[BetaWolf47]

I've tried many a PC gamepad over the years. I only have one PSX to USB adapter, so I've had to buy additional PC gamepads for two player games and such. I have been through quite a bit of controllers (including logictech). They feel cheap. They definite don't last long. There decent, but nothing I've experienced with better than the PSX dual shock controller, for retro gaming. I rarely use the analog control stick of the dual shock because I hate the delay you get (for digital dpad games, it never translates correctly because of the "threshold" point). Nothing can replace a dpad for games made with for a dpad (except maybe a digital stick, but even then...). If I had to rate my favorite PC gamepad, it would have to be the MS sidewinder gamepad (usb version). The Dpad was nice and the button layout was nice for arcade emulation (SF2 style). The controller itself was comfortable and didn't feel cheap.

I guess I'm just lucky. I had a supposedly cheap Thrustmaster controller that has lasted me nearly a decade.
http://ii.alatest.com/product/90x90/...igital-2-0.jpg
That baby has 12 buttons and a quite responsive dpad. It's odd, because the Firestorm line is supposed to be really cheap and brittle. That thing is godly for any system that doesn't use a joystick or analog stick. This gets my vote, unless we're discussing N64 emulation.

I'm surprised at the Logitech one breaking on you. Maybe it was the first model Dual Action?
http://www.logitech.com/assets/450/450.jpg
Either way, I've had the 2nd model dual action and a G5 gaming mouse, and they have both held up well despite me not taking good care of either.

Well, if you've never had a good PC controller, I'd say you're just unlucky. I've had bad ones myself, but between the 3 big companies (Logitech, Thrustmaster, and Saitek), there are some great controllers out there.

[poloplayr]

The controller is the most important thing for me - I can play NES half the devices in my home, but can only use the controller in a limited few of them.

Emulation's biggest curse is the what I call MP3 syndrome - so many games, so little effort, and no desire to stick to one title. "Aw dammit died again." = Savestate, toggle game, come back to it later (maybe)

I just can't stick with games that way. Which is why I hit next on my ipod way too much.

Amen.

[GuyinGA]

I don't have a problem with emulation (most of the games I've played/beaten are emulated), but I am aware that my computer will not capture all the nuances of the actual NES or SNES or Genesis system. Even then, it's nice to play games that cost a small fortune to acquire in actual cart form (i.e. Stadium Events, Sanro Carnival '92 Recca, etc.)

And I use Logitech Dual Action to somewhat make it similar to a real system....although PS1 games are a lot better with it IMO.

Plus, it's nice to use more than the maximum allowed Game Genie/Action Replay/Gameshark codes if you do that sort of thing.