eBay

[ryborg]

I pay paypal fees so they can offer buyers protection? Why I don't get any chargeback protection?

We pay fees to use ebay's/Paypal's service, NOT for protection. All businesses need to be able to suck up the costs of potential minor losses. We *do* get some coverage against actual credit card chargebacks, anyway. I've been involved in situations where someone used a stolen credit card to buy an item from me, the credit card holder does a chargeback, and Paypal eats the money, not me. Also, they protect well against Item Not Received disputes if tracking shows the item arrived.

The only problem with Amazon is the hard fees. You have a 15% final value fee + 1.35 closing cost + .99 transaction fee. The fees are worse than ebay/paypal.

Yeah, but it's good for items you can just leave up for long periods of time and not worry about or pay monthly fees on. I have a few factory sealed vintage PC games that are impossibly rare, yet could not be in less demand. I can post them, put them back in storage and hope for the best someday. It's only worth selling on Amazon for very specific items.

[Eyedunno]

Please explain why you think Paypal payments should be free and why you think inflation doesn't affect ebay fees. Go.

Let me just barge in and say that inflation should not affect percentage fees.

If the dollar drops in value (for the sake of easy math) such that items that were formerly $1 now cost $2, eBay will then get twice as much (in nominal terms) with the same percent fee.

Say the dollar in 2050 is worth half what it is now, and eBay has also doubled its fee. A 2010 fee of $10 will then be $40 on an item of the same real value in 2050, and more importantly, that will be $20 in 2010 dollars. $20 is more than $10, and that ain't inflation (because both numbers are 2010 dollars).

[theclaw]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read on these forums concerning ebay. Buyers have 100% coverage with Paypal. The absolute MOST a buyer will ever lose is the shipping cost to mail the item back to the seller if something is wrong. If an item isn't received, you click your mouse a few times and a you get a full refund.

Well, that's true for physical items. The protection is flakier with intangible stuff. I was only misled once that way. Didn't lose anything besides money, so I decided to forget it and move on after my case was declined by Paypal.

[Foofie]

Sellers like myself have proven over the years to put up with anything to gain access to the MASSIVE user base of potential buyers. I wonder what the point is where sellers seriously start saying "Fuck it, I'm out." I'm certain it's already happening.

Ebay used to be a means of connecting individual buyers and sellers. Back in the olden days, it was "Hey, Guy! I just got your money order. I'm shipping your stuff out tomorrow! Enjoy your Shining Force!" Now, it's just a big storefront, and buyers have a different perception - Half of 'em think they're dealing with Walmart. I've had people griping that they bought incompatible accessories and wanting me to send the right one. I've had people complaining that their Priority Mail'd item didn't arrive cross-country overnight. I even "ruined a poor little boy's Christmas" because I wouldn't refund a lady her money and let her keep a "broken" game.

For the amount of fees I'm paying, and the quality of buyers I'm getting, it's not worth it for me. If I were selling high-dollar items, or items targeted at a different demographic, maybe I'd have a different outlook. I'd rather sell things for 25% less on Craigslist and have cash in hand.

[ryborg]

Well, that's true for physical items. The protection is flakier with intangible stuff. I was only misled once that way. Didn't lose anything besides money, so I decided to forget it and move on after my case was declined by Paypal.

I never have and I never will sell intangible items, so I guess this is something I'll never experience. What exactly is their policy on intangible item chargebacks?

Ebay used to be a means of connecting individual buyers and sellers. Back in the olden days, it was "Hey, Guy! I just got your money order. I'm shipping your stuff out tomorrow! Enjoy your Shining Force!"

Eh, I don't know about that. Maybe to a certain extent, but I certainly wasn't that folksy 12 years ago and I know some sellers are that personable now.

Now, it's just a big storefront, and buyers have a different perception - Half of 'em think they're dealing with Walmart. I've had people griping that they bought incompatible accessories and wanting me to send the right one. I've had people complaining that their Priority Mail'd item didn't arrive cross-country overnight. I even "ruined a poor little boy's Christmas" because I wouldn't refund a lady her money and let her keep a "broken" game.

Buyers are absolutely worse now when compared to years ago, however. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does. My "funny/stupid" folder in my ebay gmail account has ~1000 emails currently.

For the amount of fees I'm paying, and the quality of buyers I'm getting, it's not worth it for me. If I were selling high-dollar items, or items targeted at a different demographic, maybe I'd have a different outlook. I'd rather sell things for 25% less on Craigslist and have cash in hand.

Yeah, I don't really sell video game stuff or electronics anymore, partially for this reason. Profits were slimming and the buyers were only getting dumber (and I found more profitable items to sell to a slightly smarter demographic). I still think Craigslist is the dregs of our society and I avoid it like the plague. I've had so many transactions turn to shit on there and so few work out well. I'd rather deal with high ebay fees than lunatics IRL.

[wyethin]

This thread's pretty dumb (who is JUST NOW discovering ebay??)

Your mom -- or someone new to collecting.

I don't see what's so wrong with GQ; that describes a lot of games. "You're Mario; jump."

Nothing is wrong with Gargoyle's Quest, quite the opposite in fact. It's one of my favorite games for the console. My gripe was with the insubstantiality of the manual.

[garagesaleking!!]

i will agree that ebay is very much like a storefront these days, even much more than it was 2 or 3 years ago. people send out these ridiculous instructions like include a packing slip, write the item number 3 times on different places, and do this, and file the tracking number on this website. some crazy buyers, but 98% of the time the buyers are still good to work with. i just hate how few people leave feedback these days.

as far as craigslist, its the opposite. 2% of transaction are good, 98% fall through. and every time i try to buy anything i usually never get an email back. they need to require phone numbers. and the amount of spam mail i get from selling on craigslist is very upsetting.

[jonebone]

It's quite hard to find a CIB copy of it. Almost CIB-Belmont's-Revenge hard.

lol. Gargoyle's quest is just another mid-level CIB, R5 or R6 maybe and shouldn't be anymore than $25-$30. Auctions would be lucky to break $20, but of course BINers will slap it up at 200-300% of it's value. Guess you missed that sealed one that just ended for $41 last week, you coulda VGA'd it and gotten $300+ by your perception of "worth".

Please explain why you think Paypal payments should be free and why you think inflation doesn't affect ebay fees. Go.

Because eBay owns Paypal. They bought em for $1.5B in 2002 (link for reference: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-941964.html ). Long story short, eBay tried to create their own company to compete with them (BillPoint), failed horribly and just bought up their competition.

They they banned money orders about 1.5 years ago if I remember correctly. Translation: They monopolized the payment system so they get to double dip on fees for every transaction. There are perfectly viable alternatives (Google Checkout), but eBay refuses to use them because they wouldn't get their extra payment fees on top of their own fees.

Hell, paypal offers no more protection than a normal Credit Card. You can do a chargeback through a Credit Card for a non-receipt or damaged goods. So what exactly are we paying for again?

Here's the analogy. Let's say that Wal-mart decides to put parking meters in all of their parking spots. Just like you have to use paypal when you buy on eBay, you have to park in a parking spot to go inside Wal-mart (pretending you don't live in walking distance or carpool to do your shopping.) So Wal-mart would get to profit off you twice just as eBay does. Of course this would never fly because of public outrage and protests, but yet no one pushes the issue on the "internet".

It's just a matter of time before a company like Google takes eBay to court for monopolizing the industry, and I can't wait for that day to occur.

[ryborg]

i just hate how few people leave feedback these days.

That's because feedback has become irrelevant. I no longer give feedback unless a buyer or seller went out of their way for me for whatever reason. As a seller, leaving feedback is pointless, because a buyer's feedback is no longer an indicator of if they're a good customer or not since they can no longer receive critical feedback. What's the difference between (40) and (4999) if you don't sell anything? As a buyer, a seller's feedback is the last thing I worry about, since I'm going to be covered if something goes awry.

Because eBay owns Paypal. They bought em for $1.5B in 2002 (link for reference: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-941964.html ). Long story short, eBay tried to create their own company to compete with them (BillPoint), failed horribly and just bought up their competition.

That still doesn't explain why it should be FREE. Just because a company owns a product or service doesn't mean they have to give it away. As much as it sucks for sellers, it's still the smart business move because they know sellers will put up with it, while buyers will not.

Hell, paypal offers no more protection than a normal Credit Card. You can do a chargeback through a Credit Card for a non-receipt or damaged goods. So what exactly are we paying for again?

A credit card will drop you if you file too many disputes. Some will drop you after one. Paypal won't. It also only takes two mouse clicks to file a dispute on Paypal. Dealing with a real credit card chargeback has gotten easier in recent years, but it's still a huge pain in the ass. It has been proven that you will *always* win a Not-As-Described dispute. Good luck with that using a CC. Regardless, we're not paying solely to be protected; we're paying because it's mandatory. Don't like it? Don't use the service.

Here's the analogy. Let's say that Wal-mart decides to put parking meters in all of their parking spots. Just like you have to use paypal when you buy on eBay, you have to park in a parking spot to go inside Wal-mart (pretending you don't live in walking distance or carpool to do your shopping.) So Wal-mart would get to profit off you twice just as eBay does. Of course this would never fly because of public outrage and protests, but yet no one pushes the issue on the "internet".

Good analogy, but I think most people WOULD put up with it if it meant lower prices and an easier shopping experience overall. (SHHHH don't be giving Wal-Mart any ideas....)

It's just a matter of time before a company like Google takes eBay to court for monopolizing the industry, and I can't wait for that day to occur.

I've been waiting for this to happen for years and years now. I don't think it's going to happen. Google doesn't make very many poor business moves and you'd think if creating their own auction/sales front, they would have done so by now. I'm not sure there's another company that has the assets and the will to truly compete with ebay.

[garagesaleking!!]

exactly because something like ebay takes years and years to build trust and recognition. and to establish a base of buyers, its not hard to get sellers. Ebay will also have the largest buyer base and since so many international buyers use ebay us now, they are never going to change in this next 10 years.

[BetaWolf47]

You can have a bad experience no matter where you buy an item, all you can do is do all the investigating you can before you purchase. Ebay does have paypal protection but it doesn't cover everything so beware of that.

This is one reason I prefer brick and mortar, and local dealing. The risks of physically buying an item from a person are far fewer. I've looked at something in a Play N Trade, and in Gamestop, brought it to the register, but then turned down the sale because of their condition. Even though buying locally is a lot more limited, it's better to have something tangible.

[jonebone]

Good analogy, but I think most people WOULD put up with it if it meant lower prices and an easier shopping experience overall. (SHHHH don't be giving Wal-Mart any ideas....)

Of course we'd put up with it if it meant lower prices, but eBay prices just continually raises them higher and higher. Businesses always pass increased costs to the consumer, so everytime these FVFs and shipping fees go up, the price of video games slowly trickles upward. Just like when many services / foods shot up in price a couple years back when gas damn near doubled over the span of a month.

I've been waiting for this to happen for years and years now. I don't think it's going to happen. Google doesn't make very many poor business moves and you'd think if creating their own auction/sales front, they would have done so by now. I'm not sure there's another company that has the assets and the will to truly compete with ebay.

I didn't suggest for Google to compete with eBay from an auction site perspective, I'm simply encouraging them to try and prosecute eBay for monopolizing the checkout system. There is absolutely no valid reason why Google Checkout should not be permitted. Quite frankly, there's no real valid reason for banning money orders either, though I do admit it does streamline the process much better.

Google does know how to pick and choose their battles though. I figured they'd either be in the video game or operating system industry by now, quite surprised they aren't. I also expected Apple to compete with an iConsole or something, surprised they haven't either.

[rpepper9]

Despite the raises they can keep doing it because its worth it.

Now, dont act like amazon has no fees. I sold some textbooks and they charged me a 14% commission fee. That was outrageous, higher than ebay. Whats with that?

Couldn't have said it better! How many of us buy things at Flea Markets or Garage Sales and resell on eBay? I cannot even understand why people have garage sales due to the fact that you could buy almost any gaming item at a garage sale and get triple the price on eBay.

How many people have passed on items at a Flea or Garage Sale because the seller was charging "eBay" prices? To quote Garagesaleking!! Despite all the fees it is still worth it!

[Zapf]

I cannot even understand why people have garage sales due to the fact that you could buy almost any gaming item at a garage sale and get triple the price on eBay.

Is this a serious post or what.

[garagesaleking!!]

Its called a figure of speech, used to exaggerate a point as to prove its legitimacy.

What he says is true in many cases. Not just with gaming stuff. Some people are understandable, they sell large ackward things, or just give you a deal on somthing to get rid of it. But some people sell things for $5 or $10 that are worth well over $100 or $200. It still puzzles me, but Im not going to complain. Gaming stuff usually is priced either high or fairly though because so many people have seen prices at retro game stores and craigslist, etc. But there are still deals to be had.

[Bugbear]

Maybe Ebay is okay if you're a power-seller, but when I need a few extra dollars and sell something that'll fetch more then $20 because anything else is a waste of my time, AND I'm a "little guy", it can hit you hard.

Say I sell a game for $50. The final vaule fee for video game listings is 15% (yeah, it's more depending on what you sell.) Then I have to pay the paypal fee, 3.9% if I sold it overseas, which I probably did (2.9% otherwise.)
So I end up with $40.25. Yeah, that's nice, I needed $50 and got $40. I know there has to be A fee, because it is a service. I don't deny that, I just don't think it should be so much. If I don't have loads of money in my Paypal account, $10 can be significant. I'm not saying I'm poor and don't have 10 bucks, but ---damn.
A $10 service charge. Can you imagine a bank charging that much per transaction? Or ANYONE charging $10 for everything they do for you? Sure, Ebay isn't a bank. But they sure have a lot of customers, and they sure do charge a lot of money.

[ryborg]

There is absolutely no valid reason why Google Checkout should not be permitted.

Ebay is a private company and they can choose how people pay when users use their site. There is absolutely zero legal basis for a lawsuit, which is why Google hasn't done anything. Should Diners Club sue Red Lobster since Red Lobster doesn't accept DC cards as payment? There is no monopoly, since ebay allows users to use other payment systems (ProPay, Moneybookers, Paymate, actual merchant cards, etc). Even if Paypal was the only service allowed, that is not how monopolies work, and to think otherwise is laughable. Ebay is not the only place to buy items on the internet.

Is this a serious post or what.

Sadly, it seems to have been.

[ryborg]

A $10 service charge. Can you imagine a bank charging that much per transaction? Or ANYONE charging $10 for everything they do for you? Sure, Ebay isn't a bank. But they sure have a lot of customers, and they sure do charge a lot of money.

No one is forcing you to use ebay. Since it's so terrible and expensive, I urge you to find another venue to sell your $50 item for $50 quickly and have no fees involved.

[jonebone]

Ebay is a private company and they can choose how people pay when users use their site. There is absolutely zero legal basis for a lawsuit, which is why Google hasn't done anything. Should Diners Club sue Red Lobster since Red Lobster doesn't accept DC cards as payment? There is no monopoly, since ebay allows users to use other payment systems (ProPay, Moneybookers, Paymate, actual merchant cards, etc).

I didn't know other services were allowed, I guess that makes matter a bit better, but I'm sure that's some ridiculously small percentage of their sales (fraction of a percent maybe?)

No one is forcing you to use ebay. Since it's so terrible and expensive, I urge you to find another venue to sell your $50 item for $50 quickly and have no fees involved.

Forums with a gifted payment seem to do the job just fine. You usually get a higher premium for MINT stuff anyway.

[darkslime]

feedback is definitely important ryborg. for example, i am only allowed to have 2 1 or 2 DSRs but have 3 in item as described and shipping time, so i lose top rated seller over one asshole. if more people leave feedback i'll have a higher percentage allowed.

also as everyone else has said, the fees are worth it. i am glad to hand over 15% of my profits to eBay / Amazon because the userbase of those sites are huge and there is nowhere else i would be able to get the stupid high prices i charge which sell fine on ebay and amazon.

edit: sorry if post makes no sense. i'm very tired, will edit in the morning if i remember.