Review: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Illustrates Nintendo's Greatest Problem [Slashdot]

[j_factor]

We weren't talking about abilities, though.

[TonyTheTiger]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights. Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

[kedawa]

I just find the NSMB to be terribly bland and unimaginative.
Compared to SMW and Yoshi's Island, it's just barren and amateurish.
It reminds me of that awful 3D remake of the arcade TMNT game.
I just want something similar to SMW or SMB3, but with the graphical richness of Rayman.

[j_factor]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights. Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

2j is a partial exception. But it still had its own distinctness, due to how hard it is. I didn't feel like World was a repeat of 3 at all. Nor was Sunshine very much like 64 -- pretty much the whole game revolves around that water pack.

[Rickstilwell1]

The point I was trying to make was that the original New Super Mario Bros. seemed a lot more original before it started getting sequels. While it wasn't the best of all Mario platformers and had shortcomings when compared with Super Mario Land 2 and Super Mario World, it had an identity of its own for three years. Only with the new sequels has it been getting upgrades rather than complete changes. This series is mainly designed to cater to those who want more of the same though. It's usually the 3D installments where they try to take new directions these days.

[kedawa]

The new Giana Sisters game looks like it puts NSMB to shame.

[BetaWolf47]

I wish reviewers would use this kind of scrutiny when reviewing games like Halo, Madden NFL, Call of Duty, and others...

[kedawa]

They do, or at least the good ones do. The Halo and CoD games always get derided for their mediocre campaigns and praised for their multiplayer features, which seems completely on point to me, and Madden is always taking flack for being technically stale.
It seems to me that the blind nostalgia people have for Nintendo products is more prevalent than populist bro-duding.

[j_factor]

The new Giana Sisters game looks like it puts NSMB to shame.

I was disappointed in Giana Sisters DS, tbh. It was a little bland, and too easy.

[marlowe221]

I am seriously on the fence about getting NSMB2.... I was really hoping for a spiritual sucessor to SMB2/SMUSA. I loved that game. Also, I thought the first NSMB was kinda bland.

On the other hand I am really enjoying 3D Land. It feels like some sublime marriage of the 2D and 3D Mario universes.

[fahlim003]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights.

Yoshi(s) and the various abilities, the switches, Star Road, in-stage checkpoints, Dragon coins, etc. so yes barring the fact you can choose where to move on the over-world like a board game, that certain items got a second life in World (leaf/raccoon suit for the feather/magic cape), and that the main enemies were Bowser and the Koopalings.

Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

[TonyTheTiger]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

[Tupin]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Super Mario Sunshine was awesome, the no-FLUDD levels and music are where it truly shined.

[BetaWolf47]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.
And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.
It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

You may have a point there, but I would still argue that World differentiates itself enough to be its own game, while the New Super Mario Bros. games do not. It wasn't mentioned before, but it's the first Mario game that lets you replay levels. Unlocking stuff and then coming back to play a level with the extra stuff, such as colored bricks and different types of Yoshis, does add an extra layer of depth. It's even required to find alternate paths and beat the game 100%.

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, but most of that finds its roots in Mario 3. World didn't really invent the alternate exits. Mario 3 did it with the few whistles. World just dialed it up to 11 with the revisiting of levels a functional necessity as a result. World didn't invent the idea of Star Road. It just added real stages and more consistent access points to what is essentially the Mario 3 warp zone. The game has it's flair, sure, but just about everything it does is built on ideas already laid out in the previous game. So I think it's silly to criticize the NSMB games for not evolving when one of the best games in the series didn't do much of it either. At that point it's cherry picking as far as what actually counts as growth and change.

[BetaWolf47]

Well, with that kind of criteria, there's nothing they can do to make an original Mario game in your eyes, besides taking the Star Fox Adventures route and putting Mario into a completely unrelated game.

[YoshiM]

Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

Yeah...don't get me started. Sunshine did not last long in my Gamecube. If I wanted a game about cleaning stuff, I've got house I can clean and a child I can spray with the garden hose. Lot more fun, even with the "non FLUDD levels".