Super Famicom Tragedy

[kedawa]

I just don't see why the system would have a bridge rectifier built in when it's meant to be used with a power adapter that has its own bridge rectifier.
That kind of redundancy is rare in the mass production of electronics, where manufacturers try to cut out anything they can get away with to save a few cents.

[SparTonberry]

I wonder why the toploader NES (which I think has the same power specs as the SFC and SNES) still recommends using the NES-002 AC adapter.

[Ed Oscuro]

Four pins, and not too big:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bridge_rectifiers.jpg

I should point out that I think I've read about a rectifier being inside the SNES at some point.

I wonder why the toploader NES (which I think has the same power specs as the SFC and SNES) still recommends using the NES-002 AC adapter.

I don't know about the toploader NES, but the AV Famicom recommends the HVC-002, which also works on the SFC and SNES.

I think that part of what could be going on is current draws - which you can see at work on Xbox 360 power brick revisions. I traded the older brick to somebody who needed it to run their console, and got one of the newer models (which outputs less current) which works fine with my system. If the old power bricks are the same, there may be excess capacity in some situations. Likewise with computer power supplies, a high-capacity PSU will not cause power brownouts to affect the computer operation, but it often is highly inefficient if the system draws far less power than the PSU is rated for. For Nintendo, and its users, any inefficiency worries would have been overcome by the availability of existing supplies and the existing manufacturing capacity.

[Pikkon]

I know on a nes it converts the AC to DC,does a snes/super fami have a bridge rectifier,I know a pal snes has one.

edit.

Found this
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/in...p?topic=8524.0

[Ed Oscuro]

Found this
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/in...p?topic=8524.0

Excellent! It mentions the bit about efficiency too. Should be correct info.

Makes me wonder if it's possible to mod a SNES with a full wave rectifier. Probably not because of the different period.

[theclaw]

The Japanese SFC has the same 9vDC power connector as the PC-Engine, MD/Gen, SMS, Game Gear, etc. It's the US SNES that has the funny connector. So a US NES adaptor plug will fit, though certainly not a recommended power source.

Yeah US Game Gear power is not recommended either. Our version was switched to center positive. Where it's center negative in most of the rest of the world.

[Parodius Duh!]

Should have waited and bought an official SFC adapter. A good rule of thumb is to always use the official adapter for any system. Third party anything is just trouble waiting to happen.. That and if you are in the US/Canada, use a voltage step down converter. Pumping 20+ extra volts (and as high as 60-80 if you ever have a power spike in your home) into the system is generally a bad idea. I know a ton of people think its fine to straight up plug a Japanese console into a US/Canadian outlet. Its not.

[Zach]

Should have waited and bought an official SFC adapter. A good rule of thumb is to always use the official adapter for any system. Third party anything is just trouble waiting to happen.. That and if you are in the US/Canada, use a voltage step down converter. Pumping 20+ extra volts (and as high as 60-80 if you ever have a power spike in your home) into the system is generally a bad idea. I know a ton of people think its fine to straight up plug a Japanese console into a US/Canadian outlet. Its not.

That's not really how AC adapters work.

For example, I've been running my Famicom Disk System with the original, official Japanese Nintendo AC Adapter, specifically made for the FDS (HVC-025, maybe? It's not in front of me right now, so I'm not sure), in the US on 110-120 volts AC with no problems for more than a decade. It doesn't even heat up excessively. And it provides a consistent (checked with a multimeter) DC voltage (9V, I think) output. It doesn't put out more DC volts because I'm feeding it 10+ VAC than it would get in Japan, so there's no harm to the console.

I tested my Super Famicom again with a couple other power adapters. A 1st gen Sega Genesis adapter and a Radio Shack universal AC adapter (set to the correct polarity, of course!), and they both worked great. So the SFC seems to be very flexible in terms of what it can take. AC, DC, and a wide range of voltages.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

holy hell Zack NEVER power a Famicom or Super Famicom with an NES-001 Power Supply! That's the WORST thing you could do!

Unless your Super Famicom has been modded with a bridge rectifier which is NOT stock.

As I commented in your video, the only possible explanation to why this works is your SuFami was refurbished and someone bizarrely added a bridge rectifier in that Super Famicom to allow exactly what you're doing here - feeding it the wrong voltage type.

I have seen many people trying to use an NES AC 9V power supply with the results always being catastrophic. Stock Super NES/Super Famicom motherboards do not have a bridge rectifiers and cannot be powered with AC. This is why Nintendo of America changed the barrel shape of the SNES - to prevent idiot kids from plugging in an NES Power Supper into their SNES and BOOM you've got a dead SNES. The Super Famicom doesn't have this safeguard because the preexisting Famicom power supply is also 9v DC center pin negative.

Honestly, you really ought to collect your NES power supplies (if you're like most of us, you've got more than one) and put them in a bag and store them somewhere far, far away from your consoles. The NES can be powered by pretty much anything - AC, DC, negative pin, positive pin, 9v, 12v, a variable power supply, linear power supply, whatever. On the other hand, the NES Power Supply RUINS other consoles. There is no reason for anyone to use it unless their ONLY system with a barrel plug is an NES. Otherwise it's a disaster waiting to happen.

[Zach]

As I commented in your video, the only possible explanation to why this works is your SuFami was refurbished and someone bizarrely added a bridge rectifier in that Super Famicom to allow exactly what you're doing here - feeding it the wrong voltage type.

Well, now I'm REALLY curious. I'm going to crack open my Super Famicom and see if I can find any mods or evidence of tampering. I wonder if I'll find the same guts as those in the article mentioned here...

Found this
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/in...p?topic=8524.0

...or if there are multiple revisions floating around and I have something different. If anyone knows how to identify production dates or revisions by serial number, mine is clearly visible in the photos I posted earlier.

I do remember seeing other posts and articles on other sites about this topic, confirming that others are using US NES adapters for Super Famicoms, but that was years ago. But in that topic on Famicom World, Frank_fjs does say this: "MISCONCEPTION: Using an Australian Super Nintendo PSU in a Japanese Super Famicom will fry it due to the AC output." so this probably also applies to the US adapter. And then "80sFREAK" follows up with a photo and identifies the large diode that he assumes is doing the protecting.

In any case, I've been running this SFC with an NES AC adapter for about 12 years now, so I'm not too worried about messing up the system. But just in case, I might start using a Genesis power adapter. Better late than never, right?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah. You're playing with fire, even if you've unwittingly being given fireproof gloves. Still better not to. Also the message should be clear - just because Zach has some sort of anomaly SuFami that allows AC, do not assume yours is like that. Anyone reading this should always remember to be extremely wary of 72 pin NES power supplies for either the NES-001 or the NES-101. Both output AC, and both are [normally] a death sentience to your precious retro console. Also, always pay attention to polarity. If you are unsure what your system takes, look it up or ask someone. You never want to play guessing games when it comes to electricity.

[Ed Oscuro]

What reason do we have to think that power rectifiers aren't standard in the SNES or SFC? I think it's been pretty clearly established that there are plenty of units that have them - it's not an especially expensive or large component. Did somebody do a component breakdown and find there wasn't one?

I would still try to use an appropriate power supply because of the inefficiency of a rectifier, of course. However, it should be mentioned that if the voltages are off slightly, over time components properties can shift slightly so that they begin to reject "accurate" voltages, and thus the "wrong" input will, over time, be what parts in the system expect! So it appears to be in the case of some arcade components over time (which is why there are voltage-altering pots on many boards). However, I don't know if the components in a SNES are likely to be bothered by this. I think it is more likely that a better-filtered newer power supply will generally improve the longevity and performance (if slightly) of an old system.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

because blown Super Famicoms due to people incorrectly assuming they can use an NES power supply solely because the port fits is a very common problem that I see happen very often in forums and in actual retro game stores.

Now it IS possible very late model Super Famicoms included a rectifier since the system was still in production in Japan until early 2000, but I don't think it likely Nintendo would add components, rather than simply cost reduce as they had done with the Super Famicom Jr.

[Zach]

because blown Super Famicoms due to people incorrectly assuming they can use an NES power supply solely because the port fits is a very common problem that I see happen very often in forums and in actual retro game stores.

Now it IS possible very late model Super Famicoms included a rectifier since the system was still in production in Japan until early 2000, but I don't think it likely Nintendo would add components, rather than simply cost reduce as they had done with the Super Famicom Jr.

This is a good thought. I don't know when my Super Famicom was manufactured, but I do know the serial number, and I think I remember that there is a revision number printed on the motherboard, but that might have been on my US SNES. Also the yellowing of the plastic seems to indicate that it's a pretty old system (might not actually mean anything, though).

If you have any blown systems, or can link to posts where others' systems have been blown, maybe we can compare serial numbers and figure out if there's a correlation between manufacture date and the ability to handle AC current. All I've ever seen are posts where owners post, like myself, that they are successfully running from an NES adapter.

I do still plan to post some pictures of the inside of my console soon. Maybe both the SFC and the SNES for comparison. Is there a particular part of the motherboard(s) that would be most helpful to focus on?

It would be great to have a solid answer for someone who gets a SFC without a power adapter. I know we have the "better safe than sorry" answer to just run with an actual first party Super Famicom adapter, but when that's not an option, I'd like to know for sure what's correct so that people can get their systems running as easily/cheaply as possible.

[kedawa]

NES Power Supper

Sounds delicious.