Kickstarter - Museum of Pinball

[98PaceCar]

I am a pinball enthusiast and I would gladly travel a reasonably long distance through allegedly desolate locales, climate not being of any concern since I have a car with working heat and air conditioning, to visit a specialized museum, and I do this on a semi-regular basis.

The point you are missing is that while YOU are willing to travel a long distance to something like there, there are not enough of YOU to sustain a cash flow large enough to make this a viable proposition. There is little to nothing else to pull people to this area, so most are not going to commit to the travel and cost required for a single attraction, regardless of what it is.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The point you are missing is that while YOU are willing to travel a long distance to something like there, there are not enough of YOU to sustain a cash flow large enough to make this a viable proposition. There is little to nothing else to pull people to this area, so most are not going to commit to the travel and cost required for a single attraction, regardless of what it is.

I'm sure there are plenty of decentralized conventions, museums, attractions and travel destinations in places that have practically nothing else of related interest in surrounding areas that do just fine.

Similarly there are likely many that set up shop in the middle of thriving metropolises that turn out to be complete failures.

Always lots of variables to take into account but none are an absolute guarantee of success OR failure.

What this venture will turn out to be only time will tell, but I'm really not interested in debating speculation and statistics that can't be quantified beyond anecdotal evidence.

At the end of the day I'm more than happy to be a charitable optimist even if that places me squarely in the minority.

[Rob2600]

Something tells me Bojay1997 would find something to complain about no matter where the museum were located.

[Bojay1997]

Something tells me Bojay1997 would find something to complain about no matter where the museum were located.

Not at all. When someone presents a good business plan, I am happy to acknowledge it. This unfortunately, is not a good business plan and given that the owners have chosen to fund this using donated money through Kickstarter which they have solicited here and elsewhere, I'm not seeing the problem with pointing out the major risks and flaws in their plan.

[98PaceCar]

I'm sure there are plenty of decentralized conventions, museums, attractions and travel destinations in places that have practically nothing else of related interest in surrounding areas that do just fine.

Similarly there are likely many that set up shop in the middle of thriving metropolises that turn out to be complete failures.

Always lots of variables to take into account but none are an absolute guarantee of success OR failure.

What this venture will turn out to be only time will tell, but I'm really not interested in debating speculation and statistics that can't be quantified beyond anecdotal evidence.

At the end of the day I'm more than happy to be a charitable optimist even if that places me squarely in the minority.

I love how every time there is a dissenting opinion from yours, you bail on the conversation. As reliable as Old Faithful.

Yes, it is very possible that even in the middle of BFE, this could be a rousing success. But, given the cost of setting this up and more importantly, the cost of maintaining (not even growing), wouldn't it be a benefit to try and maximize your chances for success by surrounding yourself with other draws outside of some local type casinos? Seems to be a no brainer to at least several of us. Minimize risk and all that.

Of all of the times I've been in the pinball HOF in Vegas, probably 2 or 3 times a year for the past few years, I've never seen more than 8-10 people in there. It's usually a lot less. During CGE, the number increases, but that bump over a weekend every few years is not enough to keep it running the rest of the time. I suspect it is just scraping by. This is in a city that is arguably one of the most popular destinations for travel in the world and has thousands of tourists a day come through. How is something in the middle of nowhere and a factor of 3-4 times bigger going to manage to stay viable? It's simple economics and it doesn't add up.

The reality of it is that it will likely have great traffic for the first 6 months to a year, or until the novelty wears off. The classic gaming market is simply not big enough to sustain a steady flow of traffic. Hell, most classic gamers are too cheap to even consider traveling to something like this. So things are limited from the onset. They may be able to pull a few weekends of good traffic by having events, but most people won't commit to traveling to more than one or two events a year. Also to consider is that getting to southern California is not cheap or easy for pretty much anybody outside of the west coast. Can't fly in and just take a taxi to this one like you can in Vegas. So will someone with no more than a passing interest in pinball go out of their way to visit something like this? Some may, but most won't. So where exactly is the audience?

Being optimistic about this is admirable. I'd like to see it succeed myself, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that the few visits I would end up making in any way justify the existence of something so large in scope. In order to succeed, it will need to be able to pull in people that are not huge fans of pinball and to do that will require more than just pinball. The business plan as posted doesn't cover this.

[Greg2600]

Vegas is a different animal as attractions like that are just there to give you something to do when not gambling, with operating costs being irrelevant.

I still kind of disagree with bojays concerns on the location, because cost cannot be dismissed. If the museum feels like they can get by there that's fine. Ii don't think you need to be located next door to a mall, and don't view this as starting a big for profit organization. I do question the need and possibility of success for 150 grand.

[98PaceCar]

Vegas is a different animal as attractions like that are just there to give you something to do when not gambling, with operating costs being irrelevant.

I still kind of disagree with bojays concerns on the location, because cost cannot be dismissed. If the museum feels like they can get by there that's fine. Ii don't think you need to be located next door to a mall, and don't view this as starting a big for profit organization. I do question the need and possibility of success for 150 grand.

I disagree that operating costs are irrelevant. With something like this or the HOF in Vegas, you are creating a ton of sunk costs in just keeping things operating. It doesn't matter if people are there playing the games or not, you have to pay electricity to keep the games on, electricity to keep the games cool, maintenance on electro mechanical devices that are from 0 to 50 years old (if not older) that generate a ton of heat and are prone to breakdowns, payroll for maintenance/operators/etc. Just opening the doors each day has a set and potentially large cost regardless of the number of people that come through. I'm not talking about making this a for profit operation either, just generating enough profit to keep things operating.

The location argument is a tough one because getting a suitable location in a high traffic area can be difficult and generally expensive. I'd argue that opening anything in California is an effort in wasting money, but that's only due to the horribly inflated prices of real estate there. Finding a cheaper location is a noble cause, but cheaper is relative when you factor in the amount of traffic needed to keep the lights on and potential difficulty in getting people through the doors in "cheaper" locations. Cheaper today does not equal cheaper in the long run. At least they are going the right direction by owning their location rather than renting, that is a good move.

The thought that 150k is going to make a difference we agree on. That may help get the doors open, but it's not going to cover any costs beyond and operating a business such as this without a large cushion underneath is very risky. There may be a lot of drought periods that require simply pumping cash into it to keep it going.

[JSoup]

So, Kickstarter failed a while ago, but was the museum still happening via other methods? I was under the impression that all the parts were already there and that the Kickstarter funds were for speeding up renovations.

[Bojay1997]

So, Kickstarter failed a while ago, but was the museum still happening via other methods? I was under the impression that all the parts were already there and that the Kickstarter funds were for speeding up renovations.

They haven't updated their website or Facebook page since August of 2013. I think they own the collection already, but the actual facility required the Kickstarter funding for the lease and renovation to make it ready for the public.