Dreamcast edges out PS2?

[Ed Oscuro]

It's a well known fact that dreamcast had a better library in the first 2 years of ps2 before it died. http://ca.ign.com/articles/2000/10/2...ring-it-on-ps2

A bit of perspective is waiting for you in that article:

You may say "But these are 1st generation PS2 titles, and Dreamcast is on what, its 3rd?" But the fact is, it's not about what games were made when, it's about which games are the best today, and thus, worth your hard-earned money.

[BlastProcessing402]

The Lynx outperformed the Gameboy too.

And that pretty much turned out the same way.

Battery life had a LOT to do with GB's success there. Lynx, much like GameGear, sucked batteries like a 2 dollar whore during shore leave. You pretty much had to have an AC adapter to make it worth having, which kinda defeated the whole handheld thing.

Not saying it was the only reason, but a big one nonetheless.

[wiggyx]

It's too bad with all that better performance the Dreamcast still lacked the amount of good games which is what really matters.

Uh, no :/

[j_factor]

I really don't think those specs are anywhere near accurate. Dreamcast edges out PS2 in some areas, especially when it comes to texturing. But not polygon counts. There are some really obvious errors in there too; for example, under "main processor" he lists the PS2's CPU, but the DC's GPU.

Personally I think the Dreamcast had a good library, and an absolutely phenomenal one when you take into consideration the overall size of its library, length of time it was a current system, and overall level of support it received. A lot of its "lesser" games are fun little gems that never got their due.

[Wraith Storm]

In line with what j_factor said. The Dreamcast certainly has the advantage over PS2 in certain areas, but overall PS2 was a more powerful system.

The DC had TWICE (8MB) the amount of dedicated Video RAM than PS2 (4MB), and therefore the DC could provide much better and more varied textures. However the PS2 had TWICE (32MB) the amount of total system RAM than the DC (16MB) so it could handel large expansive environments better and have a lot more things happening at once.

These are cited reasons why games like Unreal tournament look a bit better on the DC (Especially using the VGA box) but modes like Assault (If memory serves correctly) were dropped from the game because of the large environments and all the characters wheras the PS2 version has the Assault mode.

I wish the Dreamcast had got an additional year or two under its belt before Sega pulled the plug. It had so much untapped power. Its the only system I am aware of that doubled its listed Polygon performance. When the system launched it was said that the DC could push 3 million texture mapped polygons per second. By the time Shenmue 2 was released it was pushing 6 million! Quite impressive from the compact little box!

And the DCs game library is amazing IMO!!!

[PreZZ]

The dreamcast is the best video game console I have owned, it's graphics and online capabilities were revolutionary. I don't get why a lot of you say it has a shit library, I firmly believe that it has one of the most unique and rich library in quality, that are still enjoyable by today's standards too. RPG: Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, Phantasy Star online, Record of Lodoss war. Racing games: MSR, TD Le Mans, F355 challenge, Daytona, Sega rally2. Puzzle: Chuchu rocket, bomberman online. Action games: Crazi taxi,Shenmue, Headhunter, Jet set radio, toy commander. Platformers:Rayman 2, MDK 2, Sonic adventure. Sports: nfl 2k2, nba 2k2, nhl 2k2, virtua tennis 2k2 Fighters and shmups: too many to mention, if you like those dreamcast is heaven. And it had also a lot of weird, fun and unique games like Samba de amigo, typing of the dead, seaman, spache channel 5, rez. Also some of them with accessories like bass fishing with the rod, samba with the maracas, Virtua on with the twin stick, typing with the keyboard were a lot of fun. I can play all these games today, they mostly have all aged well and still a blast. Dreamcast was supported only 3 years and Sega kept releasing games every single week it was crazy, I bought 2 games a week between 99 and 2002, something I have never done for other consoles since DC. I cant believe a lot of you, classic retro gamers, are bashing this amazing system. I can understand someone bashing 32X, SMS, genesis, saturn, sega cd, but dreamcast?

[FrankSerpico]

Part of the problem with rating the DC library after the fact is that most of its best games were ported to other consoles. If we're talking comparing it against the PS2 library in 2001 or even into 2002, then yeah only a mindless fanboy would say the PS2 has better games. However even as a Dreamcast partisan I'd have to say that overall sitting here in 2013 the PS2 probably has the best library of any console, ever.

[o.pwuaioc]

It's too bad with all that better performance the Dreamcast still lacked the amount of good games which is what really matters.

I've counted 43 DC games that interest me (excluding some other popular genres that I don't care for, like Sonic Adventure, Power Stone, or any mech game). While that's not PS2 levels, it beats both the GameCube and the Xbox, and is respectable in and of itself, especially considering some of these games are just superb. Moreover, new awesome games continue to be made for it. Dux 1.5, Last Hope: Pink Bullets, GunLord, Fast Striker 1.5, STURMWIND (which beats just about any PS2 shmup), and the soon to be released ReDux and NEO XYX prove the system is more than capable and has phenomenal games, too.

And this is coming from a Nintendo fan, a guy who has five times (literally, exactly) as many PS2 games as he has DC games, and one who rates the DC less favorably than either the Genesis or Saturn. I only really got into it a couple years ago, but ever since doing so, I've been very, very impressed.

[j_factor]

Part of the problem with rating the DC library after the fact is that most of its best games were ported to other consoles.

A lot of those ports are not so good. Also you could argue the same thing for PS2.

[fahlim003]

A lot of those ports are not so good. Also you could argue the same thing for PS2.

A few games that made the jump from Dreamcast to PS2 were downgrades. F355 Challenge, Echo the Dolphin, and Marvel vs Capcom 2 (if only barely worse on PS2). Street Fighter 3 Third Strike was better on PS2 although quite a few years later. There's also Dead or Alive 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, Space Channel 5, Resident Evil Code Veronica, Crazy Taxi, Headhunter, and many others that made the jump and often enough I've heard Dreamcast is usually preferred yet I cannot speak to having extensively played many DC-PS2 games pardon the first four I mention.

I suppose it boils down to the conversion team handling the game as much as the system the game goes to. Perhaps the Dreamcast had an edge being a development friendly system with great specs over the previous generation which led to seeing nice improvements on games like Re-Volt, Hydro Thunder, and Bust-A-Move 4 (albeit marginally).

I too find there are more appealing games on the Dreamcast than say the Xbox or GameCube. For the limited time it was around it pushed out a lot of quality.

[Guyra]

As for Dreamcast games.... For my taste in gaming, the DC has great games and for that I'll cite:
- Soul Calibur
- Rez
- Bangai-o
- Ikaruga
- Space Channel 5
- Virtua Tennis
- Flag to Flag/Super Speed Racing
- Crazy Taxi
- Worms Armageddon (okay, not a power game. Fun though).

Just want to mention that this list isn't really good for showing that the DC had great games in comparison to other consoles. (I don't doubt it has got a lot of great games, but I just want to point this out. ) The reason is that Flag to Flag/Super Speed Racing is the only game in that list that is exclusive to the Dreamcast.

Rez, Space Channel 5, and Crazy Taxi were all released on the PS2 as well.

Space Channel 5 Part 2 was also released outside of Japan for the PS2, but not for the DC.
Although it didn't have the first, Virtua Tennis 2 was also on the PS2. The same goes for Soul Calibur, as the PS2 got Soul Calibur II and III.
Worms Armageddon was released on the PS1, and so it could also be played on the PS2.

And the remaining titles I haven't commented on were all released on other systems(N64, Gamecube, Xbox, etc.).

[Tupin]

I know this is a matter of personal opinion, but the Dreamcast is better aesthetically designed than the original PS2 IMO.

If the Dreamcast had DVD playback, I think it would have honestly held its own for a few years. It would have been like the Xbox though, and they would have released the next generation really early, like Holiday 2004 or 2005. By then, it would have been pushed to its limit.

[Ed Oscuro]

BEHOLD, RAW ULTIMATE DC POWER:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=23
i can't handle all this power

Dreamcast is better designed than the PS2...except for its controller and not being designed to accommodate a PC hard drive, y'know. On that count PS2 easily edges it out.
PS2 slim is pretty nice and very easy to fit into most entertainment setups. I'm a big fan of the "spread it out horizontally" design for removing heat, rather than having a bunch of devices sitting one on top of the other inside a plastic case (although the Xbox was definitely the worst about this - put the hard drive immediately above the CPU, wat?)

[j_factor]

A few games that made the jump from Dreamcast to PS2 were downgrades. F355 Challenge, Echo the Dolphin, and Marvel vs Capcom 2 (if only barely worse on PS2). Street Fighter 3 Third Strike was better on PS2 although quite a few years later. There's also Dead or Alive 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, Space Channel 5, Resident Evil Code Veronica, Crazy Taxi, Headhunter, and many others that made the jump and often enough I've heard Dreamcast is usually preferred yet I cannot speak to having extensively played many DC-PS2 games pardon the first four I mention.

Not always, but they were usually better on Dreamcast. Another one that comes to mind is Grandia II, which was awful on PS2. But I would say it's true regardless of the other system, not just for PS2. For example, the Gamecube version of Crazy Taxi isn't so hot (a bit better than the PS2 port though).

On the other side of the coin, the vast majority of games that were on PS2 and another system were worse on PS2.

[Wraith Storm]

Thanks for the link Ed.

I always love tech threads. Its interesting to hear that Shenmue II actually had some Bump Mapping/Normal Mapping. The first time I ever even heard that tearm was when the first Xbox was released. Since, I have heard of DC games using the effect sparingly. I believe I once heard that Lemans on the DC used the effect or something similar for the grass.

[treismac]

Personally I think the Dreamcast had a good library, and an absolutely phenomenal one when you take into consideration the overall size of its library, length of time it was a current system, and overall level of support it received. A lot of its "lesser" games are fun little gems that never got their due.

This was what tipped me over the fence to decide to buy a Dreamcast. I don't need a system to be packed with blockbuster games to merit its place in my collection. Interesting games like Space Channel 5, Power Stone 1 & 2, and Crazy Taxi 2 may not go down in the annals of gaming as some of the greats, but they are great for what they are- unique bursts of video game fun. Throw in the VMU, the whole lot of Capcom fighters, and the ease of burning games and the system has more than enough awesomeness to go around. Also, I really enjoy the controller despite the criticism it receives for only having *gasp* six buttons.

[fahlim003]

Not always, but they were usually better on Dreamcast. Another one that comes to mind is Grandia II, which was awful on PS2. But I would say it's true regardless of the other system, not just for PS2. For example, the Gamecube version of Crazy Taxi isn't so hot (a bit better than the PS2 port though).

On the other side of the coin, the vast majority of games that were on PS2 and another system were worse on PS2.

I was thinking about Grandia 2 as well, but it falls among the later games I later mentioned with not knowing enough or even played enough of either version to say whether it's better/worse on one system over the other. Somehow I thought Grandia 2 was changed considerably (Grandia Xtreme) but maybe that's due to confusing the fact there are several Grandias on PS2 to begin with. Speaking of Crazy Taxi it was my understanding that was the best version available equaling if not besting the DC original.

[xelement5x]

I was thinking about Grandia 2 as well, but it falls among the later games I later mentioned with not knowing enough or even played enough of either version to say whether it's better/worse on one system over the other. Somehow I thought Grandia 2 was changed considerably (Grandia Xtreme) but maybe that's due to confusing the fact there are several Grandias on PS2 to begin with. Speaking of Crazy Taxi it was my understanding that was the best version available equaling if not besting the DC original.

Grandia 2 is much worse on the PS2. I have both versions, and you can tell while playing that the DC version was very well written for the system, while the port was a rush job.

[Neb6]

Just want to mention that this list isn't really good for showing that the DC had great games in comparison to other consoles. (I don't doubt it has got a lot of great games, but I just want to point this out. ) The reason is that Flag to Flag/Super Speed Racing is the only game in that list that is exclusive to the Dreamcast.

Rez, Space Channel 5, and Crazy Taxi were all released on the PS2 as well.

Space Channel 5 Part 2 was also released outside of Japan for the PS2, but not for the DC.
Although it didn't have the first, Virtua Tennis 2 was also on the PS2. The same goes for Soul Calibur, as the PS2 got Soul Calibur II and III.
Worms Armageddon was released on the PS1, and so it could also be played on the PS2.

And the remaining titles I haven't commented on were all released on other systems(N64, Gamecube, Xbox, etc.).

I don't recall ever saying that the Dreamcast has a better (or totally unique) library of games. I just said that it has lots of great games (and I also said the PS2 does too). However, now that you've commented on it, I ought to mention that Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast blows Soul Calibur II on the PS2 out of the water. And AFAIK other platforms had to wait quite a while for Crazy Taxi and Ikaruga. As for Rez, that one was developed by SEGA and licensed for Sony's use on the PS2.