Daria Reviews Wonder Project J [SNES]

[Daria]

Most of these would bore the hell out of someone new to the genre, especially BOF3. If someone isn't into rpgs, these aren't going to change their mind. Arcadia and DQ8 would be too hard for a rookie. Alot of these are too grind heavy, and that's boring.

The Paper Mario or Mario + Luigi games would be good be better as an intro to the cliched, overrated genre.

Aside from something like Dark Souls or Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne RPGs aren't really "hard". They might be grindy, cryptic, or have a brief learning curve but prohibited by skill? No. I also don't believe in "beginner's RPGs" as I don't think they're necessary. Most people that love the genre do so because they found a game that resonated with them and they keep trying to recreate the experience. The whole point of the article was the show that all you really need to get hooked on the genre is a solid game. People who love RPGs (and hey they're not for everyone) fell in love with a great game, doesn't matter what the title was, but to them it was a great game. No one ever quotes Mario & Luigi as being their favorite games. A fun diversion yes? But I don't know of any die hard Mario & Luigi fans. Non RPG gamers might enjoy them, but I don't think they're likely to convert someone into becoming an enthusiast of the genre.

Basically I made of list of games with qualities that I feel outweigh the inherent "flaws" of the genre. If you play these 5 and hate them, I'm willing to bet you won't like any traditional RPGs.

Paper Mario almost made my list though. :P

[Tanooki]

Paper Mario 64 is no RPG, it fakes being one but it's really a timing based action game with RPG elements and to reinforce that they also capped you from being able to level up because if you hit a hidden leveling point for the section you're on, the suddenly 5xp a goomba goes to 1xp for the entire cluster in a fight. You either learn to be good at timing if you're just not eternally cursed with it (like me) and grind like hell for 100 battles to get the XP needed to level up like once.

Skies I think would be fantastic, the GC one at least, if it wasn't so damned tricky at places and also overly aggressive with the often popping up encounter rate and the boring forcing of watching all the spells which grates as the story and especially those unique airship battles are amazing. I find it amazing no Final Fantasy, especially a 16bit era one of all things, didn't make the list. FF4 for instance would be an excellent go-to trainer because you gain levels and talents at certain levels. The characters are a constant, you don't character switch and have to swap out to level up like 10 dudes, the story is fantastic and emotional for what it is, and it's also a good 20 hour adventure so it's a nice bite sized easily tackled adventure for the newbie or the experienced wanting a small distraction.

[Daria]

I find it amazing no Final Fantasy, especially a 16bit era one of all things, didn't make the list.

I like Chrono Trigger better. :P

[Tanooki]

And I can't even finish it as it gets boring. That and for some multiple endings would not be a plus, nor would having to muddle through setting up combo attacks.

[ZeroCool]

Lunar for Noobs? Gotta disagree on that one. I played it a couple of years ago and I literally got my ass handed to me unless I grinded for awhile. This was in that cave after you leave your hometown or whatever it is. I was like WTF? It is only the beginning, I still gotta continue that.

[Gamevet]

I think Skies of Arcadia would be a good recommendation, but the encounter rate just sucked all the fun out of the game near the end. Did the GC version improve it that much over the DC version?

Here are a few of my recommendations:

Grandia II (DC) - The player could choose to avoid battles for the most part, but when they did happen, they didn't feel like a chore. Who didn't like Millenia's special attacks?

Wild Arms (Playstation) - The game has really nice FMV cut-scenes, the battles look pretty cool, the exploring isn't tedious and the game doesn't take too long to complete.

Shining: The Holy Ark (Saturn) - It's a nice mix of 16-bit and 32-bit RPGs, with the old dungeon crawling in the 1st person view. Yeah, there are moments where you'll have one encounter right after another, but there are also times where you won't encounter an enemy for a minute or 2. The battle music has a nice tempo and the music sort of fits the mood for this style of game. It's not that long of a game either.

[celerystalker]

Probably....

Super Mario RPG (SNES): Familiar characters, pretty standard and understandable interface, a fair amount of comedy, and a pleasant, upbeat soundtrack make it more accessible than most.

Earthbound (SNES): A setting that most players will relate with their childhood in some way, an extremely traditional interface, loads of comedy to reward even wasted time, and very little grinding allow Earthbound to be imminently playable.

Lunar (PS1): Anime-flavored swords and sorcery that takes a little grinding, but should appeal to anime fans. Funny, too.

Suikoden (PS1): A real roller coaster of fun and adventure. There is so much to find and an uncomplicated battle system that it can really capture the imagination of a player. You do a ton of stuff without it becoming too overwhelming.

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest (SNES): Even if they don't finish it, Mystic Quest is a great RPG tutorial. What an easy way to learn tropes like elemental affinities or HP/MP management. About 90% of the game is applicable to the genre.

Edit: forgot about the one per developer rule. Still, I think all of these have distinctive flavors.

[TheBenenator]

Final Fantasy V. Yes, the class system takes some work, but (iirc) you're eased into it; the story overall doesn't take itself all that seriously. I would've said VI instead, but between the Esper-based spell-learning system (which can easily be skipped, of course) and Gau's Rages, plus the bugginess of most versions, I can't quite recommend it as the 1st game.

...to my surprise, most of the other games that come to mind are either just SLIGHTLY too complicated and/or eyebrow-raising (SMT: Digital Devil Saga), not menu-based for the character you directly control (Tales of Symphonia), or were also made by Squaresoft (FF4,9,10; Chrono Trigger, Threads of Fate[aka Dewprism]). :/

[FieryReign]

Aside from something like Dark Souls or Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne RPGs aren't really "hard". They might be grindy, cryptic, or have a brief learning curve but prohibited by skill? No. I also don't believe in "beginner's RPGs" as I don't think they're necessary. Most people that love the genre do so because they found a game that resonated with them and they keep trying to recreate the experience. The whole point of the article was the show that all you really need to get hooked on the genre is a solid game. People who love RPGs (and hey they're not for everyone) fell in love with a great game, doesn't matter what the title was, but to them it was a great game. No one ever quotes Mario & Luigi as being their favorite games. A fun diversion yes? But I don't know of any die hard Mario & Luigi fans. Non RPG gamers might enjoy them, but I don't think they're likely to convert someone into becoming an enthusiast of the genre.

Basically I made of list of games with qualities that I feel outweigh the inherent "flaws" of the genre. If you play these 5 and hate them, I'm willing to bet you won't like any traditional RPGs.

Paper Mario almost made my list though. :P

DQ8 and Skies of Arcadia are 2 of the few rpgs that I actually enjoyed and finished. But I certainly wouldn't recommend them to a "noob". And I really can't stand rpgs, even though I've tried numerous games.

Well, I didn't think this topic was about "great rpgs" that's why I mentioned Mario+Luigi. Who cares if people don't call them they're favorite all-time games? They're simplified action-orientated rpgs that don't convolute things with unnecessary menus and gameplay that actually requires some gameplay. Not just clicking through menus and upgrading your characters with +2def and -1off armors, and other such nonsense.

You're not going to win any new fans with random battles. That concept is so outdated and asinine. DQ came out like 30 years ago yet they still make games with this bullshit. Grindy rpgs will get no love from "noobs" either. Who the hell has time to sit there and fight hundreds of monsters just to see their stats go up a level? Not to mention the boringness of fighting the same enemies over and over again. You'd better have an extremely fun battle system in place if your game requires grind. It might also help if there were an rpg without that overly cutesy anime fluff. Not everybody likes that art style. It's nice to be able to distinguish male characters from female.

[Tanooki]

DQ8 and Skies of Arcadia are 2 of the few rpgs that I actually enjoyed and finished. But I certainly wouldn't recommend them to a "noob". And I really can't stand rpgs, even though I've tried numerous games.

Well, I didn't think this topic was about "great rpgs" that's why I mentioned Mario+Luigi. Who cares if people don't call them they're favorite all-time games? They're simplified action-orientated rpgs that don't convolute things with unnecessary menus and gameplay that actually requires some gameplay. Not just clicking through menus and upgrading your characters with +2def and -1off armors, and other such nonsense.

You're not going to win any new fans with random battles. That concept is so outdated and asinine. DQ came out like 30 years ago yet they still make games with this bullshit. Grindy rpgs will get no love from "noobs" either. Who the hell has time to sit there and fight hundreds of monsters just to see their stats go up a level? Not to mention the boringness of fighting the same enemies over and over again. You'd better have an extremely fun battle system in place if your game requires grind. It might also help if there were an rpg without that overly cutesy anime fluff. Not everybody likes that art style. It's nice to be able to distinguish male characters from female.

I agree with you in the first part there on those 2 games and they're really not noob friendly as you put it. The second part, you're right, DQ is now 30 years old and random battles are BS at this rate, but DQ also doesn't do it anymore as they stopped with the 9th one on the DS. The monsters now show up on the map and float/walk around and you have to get within an aggro range to them to have them chase you down, so they are avoidable, so it's not random anymore which I approve of entirely. Sadly the other part is right, it's still a damned grind fest. I recently picked up DW1+2 and DW3 on GBC and I'm just pecking away at it now because it's so grindy. I tried to use the Retron5 to boost my stats but the damn system wouldn't copy the save back to the carts. I just wanted to enjoy the ride, not play them for 40+ hours.

[FoxNtd]

It's difficult to identify if "for noobs" means for lower-skilled players or specifically players entering the RPG genre who may or may not be well-equipped to do well and feel comfortable with the difficulty level presented from the start. In any case, there's a game I played not long ago that may be a fun choice for this topic. I don't know what the popular opinion of this game is; whether it's well received or has a poor notoriety for some oddball reasons, but it's comedic, interesting, offers a varierty of unique/interesting ideas and mechanics and has a healthy pace to it to maintain a player's interest. The game I nominate is Rogue Galaxy. I've played the original JP release, not Director's Cut, so whatever I missed out on I don't know what it is or how much it affects the game's assessment. I think the developer did a great job putting together a rich pleasant experience. For someone new to RPGs, someone who hasn't had a fair chance to understand why they're fun, I think it's a good role model for this purpose.

Some of the most popular "best" RPGs tend to be menu-driven in battles and that experience for a new player to the genre might be so disuading that the player may feel the entire genre is dull and slow. It's probably important to perceive via experience (no pun intended) what the fun factor is in this genre to build up tolerance for some initially negative factors like menu-driven battles and other things non-RPG gamers tend to complain about.

[Tanooki]

Personally for me the noob comment has a few qualifiers.

You actually are new to the concept either entirely or you've maybe dabbled in like one of them ever before so it's basically fresh.

Then you have your unskilled or just poor players who just suck at the type of game and just fail to do well or get far. And third to that are those who have low tolerances for overly repetitive slow grinds in games, not even quite just qualifying only for RPGs but other games too that crawl to get to the point which could drive people mad for various reasons. Perhaps you have low tolerances to bs. Maybe you have other things in life (kids, job(s), other responsibilities.) Or maybe you just have a very small amount of patience in general. People like that probably could easily thumb their way through a Final Fantasy 2 SNES cart because its' a 20 hour game, it could be done in a month with casual play an hour here or there. But someone under any of those qualifiers would probably say screw this garbage and walk from any Dragon Quest main line RPG, FF games from like 6 and later that are like 30-70 hour games plus, Skies of Arcadia stuff that crawls too due to over zealous random battles making dungeon crawling and map traversing a slog.

A game like DQ7 or 8 maybe easy to get the concept and easy enough not to die, but that's only because they're so bloody slow to get anywhere because of how they're designed by the time you can safely go somewhere you'll have bought all the gear you need and the XP required walking around outside a town for 5-10 hours or more. Garbage like that is not fun for a lot of people for any reason including those I gave just above. That's why I argued for different titles on my list as I was thinking of not just the noob, but also those who have other things going on in life or have a personality that games like that would grate their nerves raw.

[lendelin]

I think the discussion about the best RPG entry games is exaggerated. There are only a few RPGs I wouldn't recommend to beginners, but all the games in the OP are suited for RPG newbies. Actually, the vast majority of RPGs aren't a hindrance if you are a bit interested in the genre.

In 1990, I had little experience with videogames. I had only played Life Force, Mega Man 2, Ninja Gaiden and Zelda 2 before I tried a strange game called 'Final Fantasy'. They called it a 'Role Playing Game,' Nintendo Power and other game mags had explained in detail what kind of a game genre that is when in 1989 Dragon Warrior on the NES was released. I knew that Dragon Warrior despite a huge marketing effort by Nintendo didn't sell well at all, but I was curious and tried this Final Fantasy game. (Supposedly it was successful in Japan) Result: I wasn't overwhelmed, the game was not too complicated for me as Nintendo was afraid of for European and American players, and I appreciated RPGs from my first FF on.

I think if you have a dispostion to like RPGs, not a lot of games can throw you off.

[kupomogli]

I think the discussion about the best RPG entry games is exaggerated. There are only a few RPGs I wouldn't recommend to beginners, but all the games in the OP are suited for RPG newbies. Actually, the vast majority of RPGs aren't a hindrance if you are a bit interested in the genre.

In 1990, I had little experience with videogames. I had only played Life Force, Mega Man 2, Ninja Gaiden and Zelda 2 before I tried a strange game called 'Final Fantasy'. They called it a 'Role Playing Game,' Nintendo Power and other game mags had explained in detail what kind of a game genre that is when in 1989 Dragon Warrior on the NES was released. I knew that Dragon Warrior despite a huge marketing effort by Nintendo didn't sell well at all, but I was curious and tried this Final Fantasy game. (Supposedly it was successful in Japan) Result: I wasn't overwhelmed, the game was not too complicated for me as Nintendo was afraid of for European and American players, and I appreciated RPGs from my first FF on.

I think if you have a dispostion to like RPGs, not a lot of games can throw you off.

If someone wants to get into RPGs, you're right, not a lot of highly praised games are going to turn them off. But this post and video could be considered what if you have friends who have no interest in getting into the genre, and what could you show them to get them into it? With the games you played, it's comparing 8bit game to 8bit. What about gamers who started gaming in the last gen regardless of age? The original Final Fantasy is a great game, but it might feel a bit too limited and archaic not only in terms of how it plays but graphics too. You'd rather show these people games that are timeless in execution rather than something that is clearly showing its age, especially when you're trying to get someone who's not very interested in trying the genre.