Holiday console sales are the lowest they've been in decades.

[kupomogli]

Not only are the holiday console sales this are the lowest in decades, consoles in 2025 in are the lowest in over 20 years.

In addition, the PC hardware market and PC gaming sales has hit record sales in 2025.

I'm only bringing this up in another thread because for Playstation I've been saying this for five years now. Yes, one reason why 2025 console sales are at historic lows is because of the increase in console prices, but that doesn't explain the reason for the same historically PC gaming hardware being sold, PC gaming hardware that is going to be "more expensive, than consoles."

When all of these console games are no longer exclusive and you can play them "all" on PC, both Xbox and Playstation. Why buy a Xbox? Why buy a Playstation? Ever since Microsoft has started releasing Xbox games on PC near the Xbox One launch I've stated that Xbox was done, and then the same when Playstation has followed with their releases since the launch of the PS5.

So again, some people are calling the lowest sales of consoles an economy issue, which is partially true, but again, PC sales are the highest they've ever been outselling every other year to date.

By giving up their exclusivity for a short term gains, for millions which is nothing in comparison to what they've cost themselves in the long run and this new 2025 data now proves it. It's clear now that my prediction of Playstation being dead in a decade is pretty spot on. I'm going to call it now, the PS6 is their last console, there is no "traditional" PS7 and Playstation may still exist but definitely not in the form of what we know it to be now.

[Spartacus]

I used to be a PC gamer. Frankly, it was too complicated and expensive to be an enjoyable experience. Every time I've looked into PC gaming it always comes back to being more complicated and expensive than console gaming. I don't know if the PS6 will be Sony's last console. I do know that if Sony makes a PS6, I will buy one. Frankly, I hope they hurry up and release the PS6 so I won't have any regrets about not purchasing a PS5 Pro.

This year Sony offered substantial holiday discounts on consoles and controllers, so I took advantage and loaded up. Bought a PS5 slim as a backup in case my OG PS5 ever dies. Bought a PlayStation Direct exclusive black Ghost of Yotei console. Cause I love collecting special edition consoles. Got caught up on my having one of every color possible for PS5 controller's, plus I bought 6 different limited edition PS5 controllers that were on sale. Even purchasing one that was only available in Asia. Cause I love collecting special edition controllers. Did you know that Walmart has an exclusive PS5 controller color? I have two of those now.

Microsoft had holiday sales on controllers as well and I purchased the three newest from the breaker series. I think the vapor line of colors is next and I'm looking forward to them even though I don't game on an Xbox. Not counting the carbon black and robot white controllers that I keep a good supply of in case I ever do game on an Xbox, I now own 24 different special edition Xbox controllers. I love special edition controllers.

Nintendo did not offer holiday sales that I was aware of, but I bought a proverbial shit ton of Switch games this holiday that were priced under $20. Not that I want to play them on the Switch, but rather because these were good games that I'm proud to own. I wondered if they were discounted this holiday because they were not Switch 2 games.

I don't know if PC games and hardware got a holiday discount this year. I probably never will know.
Nostradamus was a hoax.

[kupomogli]

@Spartacus

24 special edition controllers on a console you don't play is a lot. Honestly, 24 special edition controllers on a console you do play is a lot.

[Spartacus]

On recount I have 2 Xbox 360, 21 Xbox One and 15 Xbox X Limited Edition controllers. They make wonderful shelf candy! I'm retired now, but I used to strap on steel toed boots to earn a living and earning enough to buy the things that makes us happy is an important part of a good life.
Normally, after the holiday shopping spree, I use my cash back rewards to buy Nintendo. A company I despise, mostly due to it's pricing practices. It helps me feel like I did not get completely screwed buying Nintendo products. This year I plan to buy a Xbox X console instead. I had previously avoided using Xbox One and X consoles because I was offended by the requirement to register them with Microsoft before use. But now I understand that the Xbox X is backwards compatible all the way back to original Xbox games. And having the hardware boost while playing old games impresses me. Imagine putting a PS2 disc into a PS5 or a Wii disc into a Switch. That singular difference with it's competitors makes Xbox X gaming a worthy experience. I'm not going to ruin Limited Edition controllers doing it, but I can at least say I game on an Xbox.
I did purchase a new Dell PC this year before the holidays. Not because I wanted to, but because my older PC's operating system expired. It cost a bit less than a new gaming console but did not come with a disc drive. Well, neither does a Switch 2. I had it a few weeks when the power went out while it was hibernating and when I restarted the PC I got a blue screen asking me to enter a Microsoft security code while at the same time it would not recognize my wireless mouse and keyboard. Very frustrating, but not an unusual experience for those using PC's. My work PC would often crash as well. This is supposed to be my future gaming experience? Not on your life!
My hand will never be trained and contorted and into using WASD keys in my lifetime. That much I can predict.

[kupomogli]

You did say you were going to try Ninja Gaiden 2, so you can play that on the Xbox Series X without all the lag since it can run at 60fps with the better performance.

[Gameguy]

So again, some people are calling the lowest sales of consoles an economy issue, which is partially true, but again, PC sales are the highest they've ever been outselling every other year to date.

A lot of people are buying PCs now because they're afraid that the new RAM shortages will cause prices to skyrocket, they're wanting to update their PCs now before they can't otherwise afford to in the near future. New RAM is now being allocated to AI developers rather than general consumers. I'm tempted to buy a new PC for myself but I still don't want to spend that much for an upgrade. My current PC basically does everything I want it to and still has a DVD drive which is useful for me, there's maybe a few things I would need a more powerful PC to do but it's still pretty expensive to upgrade and I really don't like modern operating systems.


You mentioned, "When all of these console games are no longer exclusive and you can play them "all" on PC, both Xbox and Playstation. Why buy a Xbox? Why buy a Playstation?"

I'll ask instead; Why buy a new console when most new games are shit?

Indie games are still selling fine, plenty are doing well and are profitable. It's the AAA studios that aren't doing so well, many large franchises just aren't liked anymore as they're increasingly becoming poor quality. The latest Call of Duty being one example where people are complaining about fighting zombies and spiders when this series was supposed to be an army combat type of experience. Apparently the newest Rainbow Six is crossing over with Attack on Titan. Again, why? There's other similar games I've heard are doing the same thing, but I just can't remember the names right now. There was some new playable game demo shown where youtube creators were playing it as a first look, the quick time events didn't actually do anything and completed themselves even if the player refused to press anything. Add to that endless add-ons or microtransactions and season passes, terrible writing and forced political statements in games, it's all unlikable, soulless trash. Why would people want to buy a console to play this?

People used to buy consoles as media centers and streaming boxes, but people are canceling their streaming services too due to rising costs and poor quality shows being the norm. I'm sure most people can still stream with their existing old consoles too, it's not like the PS3 or 360 era when people were upgrading from their PS2s to use Netflix. The reason most people are buying new consoles now are to create streaming content, not to actually enjoy.

In the past I would want to wait to eventually find a "new" console later at a thrift store or yard sale for under $30-$60, once a new generation came out. At this point, I'm not even interested in the newest generations. I'm not waiting for anything modern to get cheaper.

I did purchase a new Dell PC this year before the holidays. Not because I wanted to, but because my older PC's operating system expired.

What do you mean "expired"? Operating systems still work after official support is discontinued, I've had no problems with this while using my PC almost daily. For security concerns, my free antivirus software still updates daily and really that's all that's needed.

[Spartacus]

I collected video games for a hobby, play them occasionally, and don't worry myself much about the future of the gaming industry because of my age.
The economics of my hobby pretty much precluded my owning or playing games until heavily discounted, but I have found that I finish "new" games much more often than I do "retro" games. Whether this is due to changing difficulty or progression saving, I can't say. But I will say that I am truly impressed with the visual quality of modern games.
I used to feel dismayed by the thought that all games being sold digitally, but that doesn't even concern me now because it just means there is a clear endpoint to my collection and that's a good thing.
And though I would be loathe to game on a PC, with it's entire library being digital I suppose, I was always a bit curious and perhaps even envious of the Steam library. I remind myself that the creators of the original Xbox had considered giving it the capability of playing PC games but concluded that the quantity and quality of PC games was so poor, it would probably damage the reputation of the Xbox console.
Having said that, I know for a fact that playing a bad game of a type that I like is much more enjoyable for me than playing a great game of a type I dislike.
I was intrigued hearing about a new Steam console because of the access to it's library and the fact that it was not a miserable handheld device, but concluded it was not a device designed and dedicated purely for gaming, but more of a media streaming device capable of surfing the internet and reading email to which I have little interest. More's the pity. But if that's where we end up as gamers, well so be it. I still have a collection of unplayed retro games to console myself with.

What do you mean "expired"? Operating systems still work after official support is discontinued, I've had no problems with this while using my PC almost daily. For security concerns, my free antivirus software still updates daily and really that's all that's needed.

I was doing just that, using a "free" antivirus software that constantly nagged me to purchase it with annoying popups. After more than a year of this with no detections, I concluded that my style of PC use that involves no downloads could be conducted safely with an up-to-date operating system alone. This new Dell, the least expensive version they produce was on sale for just under $400, is the quietest PC I have ever been around. It makes absolutely no noise at all. But it is not a gaming PC. At least I don't think it is.

[Gameguy]

I collected video games for a hobby, play them occasionally, and don't worry myself much about the future of the gaming industry because of my age.
The economics of my hobby pretty much precluded my owning or playing games until heavily discounted, but I have found that I finish "new" games much more often than I do "retro" games. Whether this is due to changing difficulty or progression saving, I can't say. But I will say that I am truly impressed with the visual quality of modern games.
I used to feel dismayed by the thought that all games being sold digitally, but that doesn't even concern me now because it just means there is a clear endpoint to my collection and that's a good thing.
And though I would be loathe to game on a PC, with it's entire library being digital I suppose, I was always a bit curious and perhaps even envious of the Steam library. I remind myself that the creators of the original Xbox had considered giving it the capability of playing PC games but concluded that the quantity and quality of PC games was so poor, it would probably damage the reputation of the Xbox console.
Having said that, I know for a fact that playing a bad game of a type that I like is much more enjoyable for me than playing a great game of a type I dislike.
I was intrigued hearing about a new Steam console because of the access to it's library and the fact that it was not a miserable handheld device, but concluded it was not a device designed and dedicated purely for gaming, but more of a media streaming device capable of surfing the internet and reading email to which I have little interest. More's the pity. But if that's where we end up as gamers, well so be it. I still have a collection of unplayed retro games to console myself with.

I agree with you that modern games are far easier to complete than older games, that's partly why new games are more appealing for use as streaming content. Just push forward and you can complete them with minimal struggle. I would do the same if I was streaming, not that I would personally enjoy playing most for myself. I also agree with your view on an endpoint to a collection, I don't view digital only games as being part of a real collection. There's more than enough media that already exists for me to consume in my lifetime, I'm not desperate to look for more new media. I rarely play games anymore at all, I mostly seem to watch videos on youtube which are pretty high quality these days compared to 15+ years ago and are free to access.

The issue I now have with Steam is that plenty of older games are compatible with Windows 7 and can run on my PC, but the Steam launcher itself now requires Windows 10 so I can't access any of those titles on my PC. I only ever used freeware from Steam, but if I actually paid for digital games I would be angry that I could no longer play them just because the service itself changed, not that the software can't run on my PC.

I was doing just that, using a "free" antivirus software that constantly nagged me to purchase it with annoying popups. After more than a year of this with no detections, I concluded that my style of PC use that involves no downloads could be conducted safely with an up-to-date operating system alone. This new Dell, the least expensive version they produce was on sale for just under $400, is the quietest PC I have ever been around. It makes absolutely no noise at all. But it is not a gaming PC. At least I don't think it is.

I didn't notice until you mentioned it, but I haven't been getting those daily popups with my antivirus for a long time. It's actually nice, but otherwise the software is far worse than it used to be. I'm using Avira and it really went downhill once Norton bought the company, it just seems like a different version of Norton antivirus with the interface and added bloat. Still most of the free antivirus programs have been bought out by larger companies so I don't really feel like looking for another one. Only within the last few weeks did it alert me to a detection which it stopped, that was the first time in over a year since it last found a detection. It's still nice that it's working as it should, I'm still using Windows 7 so new security updates for Chrome and Windows aren't really available. Though there are other internet browsers that are still being updated for Windows 7 so I should be looking into switching soon. I still wouldn't trust a new operating system alone to protect me from intrusions, I would still want an antivirus as well.

[kupomogli]

I'll ask instead; Why buy a new console when most new games are shit?

Sorry I didn't respond, though I do partially agree with that. A lot of new games feel kind of underwhelming, but maybe I've just gotten to the point that my expectations are too high to enjoy most games. --- Or at the very least most modern gamines because gaming now days opts to attempt to pad things out excessively, whether it's open world, procedural garbage, or the absurd amount of text dumps found in modern gaming.

But considering that the console is both Sony and Nintendo's lifeline, it would do well for them to not allow them to die out. Any physical collector should hope this isn't the case. I'll continue purchasing anything that I'm interested in until physical media completely dies out, but the efforts from Sony and Nintendo are pushing it along faster than it should have come.

Indie games are still selling fine, plenty are doing well and are profitable. It's the AAA studios that aren't doing so well, many large franchises just aren't liked anymore as they're increasingly becoming poor quality.

I actually disagree. While "some indies" are great games, I feel that some of them that have released aren't. For instance, Shinobi Art of Vengeance has some good combat, but it's still full of modern day garbage, and the game looks like ass, like a low effort flash game. Of course it's going to be profitable when it kind of feels slapped together. And if you consider the price that a lot of these lower budget games are requesting, there's much to complain about indie games as their are AAA games. Not every game is Hollow Knight, not every game is Expedition 33. And as physical collectors, it's also more expensive than it is digitally(in most cases.)

However, how often does a new indie game release now days that's either procedurally generated, a card game, a short platformer, 2D exploration game, or a 2D adventure game(Broken Sword/Visual Novel esque that's usually only a few hours in length.) There's very little originality now days whether it's indie or not and outside of the 2D exploration games, is it really all that expensive to develop these style of games above on modern development tools?

[kupomogli]

I will say some things about modern gaming, give my opinion on games here and there.

Square Enix has pretty much risen from the ashes and while they're not gen 5 Squaresoft, they've been a better company now than they have at any other point in time. Like on the level of PS2 Squaresoft and Enix in comparison to anything else.

Bandai Namco have unfortunately gotten worse because of exactly what you've mentioned, microtransactions, season passes. There's been five console and PC Dragon Ball games across two entire generations and every one of them has been a dumping ground for DLC. Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, Dragon Ball Z Kakarot, Dragon Ball Fighter Z, Dragon Ball Sparking Zero which I think this one didn't do very well and they just abandoned it, and that new League of Legends Dragon Ball which will probably get a lot of support now because it's yet another microtransaction game.

I'm a huge fan of Gundam and I loved seeing new Gundam games, because the games were often times great games, but with the popularity of Gundam Extreme Vs in the arcades there's not going to be any of that, Gundam Battle Operation 2 is a free to play microtransaction game that you can't even get into anymore as it's a gacha game so if you haven't been playing it from the start or you quit, good luck the game ever catching up. Outside of the new Gundam game that's a VR exclusive movie rather than a game, there's really been nothing in years outside of SRW.

Falcom is dead and imo they've been dead. Ever since Kondo became CEO they've been headed towards making games even cheaper than they have before. The games generally have good gameplay, but play any Trails game and it's the same game as the last with about 70/30 text over gameplay and I'm talking about gameplay in its entirety. Ys8 was I feel like was the perfect text/gameplay cut off, but then Ys9 was an open world land mass of a town/outside with a few dungeons in and outside of town, gameplay was actually better than Ys8 or at least feels like they tried to make it a bit more weighty and balanced, and filled with fetch quests and text dumps. It wasn't bad, but it was really underwhelming. But Ys10 took the text dumps to a whole new level, there's about 85-90% text within the first five hours of the game and sure, it gets better, better as in, only about 70% for the remainder of the game maybe. But a lot of that is now filled with this open world map where you're on a boat. The new dungeons are rather mediocre, the boss battles are the worst designed battles in the series, atleast the ones I've played. And then Falcom decides that's not enough, that they're going to release a second more complete version of the game like Atlus does. From now on I'm done with Falcom period. It was one of the best developers and now I consider it one of the absolute worst.

Then Atlus. Atlus is also dead. Remember back in the day when Atlus USA would publish all of these great games we never got in the west? Yeah, that's definitely no longer a thing, mainly since the majority of Japanese games now days are just visual novels or shmups. Kind of like how we have The Pokemon Company, Atlus is now just "The Persona Company." They're not just Persona now days but they certainly feel like it, and what have they really released outside of Metaphor(Persona,) Persona 5, some other versions of Persona 5, remasters, and Soul Hackers 2(SMT Persona) and SMT5... twice? In the past decade if you answered nothing, you're right. They've literally released nothing.

Sega's at least been on top of their game with Yakuza, but with the bigger cities even that has become more open world than it has before. However I'd say this is still a franchise worth owning. Yakuza is the kind of game I would still recommend to anyone who is interested in gaming provided they can handle the heavy storyline text dumps the series has. Because the storyline to this game both main quests and side quests are generally good. They actually have fairly good writers within that team.

The reason to get into Yakuza, though, is because even with all the padding it may have, it functions as a diverse sandbox of experiences. While it's a decent beat em up or RPG, depending on which one you play, it's got a massive variety of activies that you're never forced to focus on just one thing. You can break up the monotony by focusing on one of many activies. While there has been a lot of overlap since Judgment, there's usually a few real arcade games unique to each one alongside others. While I will say the earlier games had a lot of good mini games, Lost Judgment in particular has a lot of bad mini games(boxing and Hama of the Dead are the only two I really like) and I don't exactly like the progression of the game either despite liking the first, so I can't really say if I'd even like the latest three Yakuza releases.

Yakuza Kiwami 3 is a remake of the third game and it's the first game in the series that's introducing Game Gear games. I'm just hoping that Master of Darkness and Defenders of Oasis make it. I never really cared for Game Gear but I do like those games. Lost Judgment was the first release of Master System games and it included eight games, 15 Master System games are included in Infinite Wealth(I've actually just found the full list of 12 games has been posted and it's a bunch of stuff I really don't care about, why include exclusive games where you can just give us worse versions of games found on other collections. Thanks Sega, my interest has now waned with this one. I'll pick it up during a Black Friday sale or something)

[Steve W]

I wouldn't mind buying a PS5. It's just the cost of it is a bit much for me, considering I've got more bills to pay lately. After the PS2/Xbox/GameCube era I only jumped aboard the Xbox 360 train just to have it red ring on me. So I gave up on modern consoles... until I bought my first PS3 at a used book store for $55. A week later I bought an Xbox 360 Slim at a thrift store for twentysomething, and later that year a PS4 for $75 at a flea market. Then a Wii for $9.99 at a Salvation Army and a Wii U at a GameXchange for $129. The only thing that nudged me back into the modern-ish game console era was because I could find used systems at a reasonable price. Now I can only find dirt-filled PS5 consoles for a bit under $300. Not really feeling like I'm getting a bargain. I wouldn't be buying it for AAA games, since that industry seems to be collapsing under its own incompetence, I'd be buying it for fun indie titles. And I can already get those on the PS4. So there's no real motivation to upgrade. Maybe I'll pick up a used Switch if it goes down in price enough, but I don't ever see myself getting a Switch 2.

[Gameguy]

I actually disagree. While "some indies" are great games, I feel that some of them that have released aren't. For instance, Shinobi Art of Vengeance has some good combat, but it's still full of modern day garbage, and the game looks like ass, like a low effort flash game. Of course it's going to be profitable when it kind of feels slapped together. And if you consider the price that a lot of these lower budget games are requesting, there's much to complain about indie games as their are AAA games. Not every game is Hollow Knight, not every game is Expedition 33. And as physical collectors, it's also more expensive than it is digitally(in most cases.)

However, how often does a new indie game release now days that's either procedurally generated, a card game, a short platformer, 2D exploration game, or a 2D adventure game(Broken Sword/Visual Novel esque that's usually only a few hours in length.) There's very little originality now days whether it's indie or not and outside of the 2D exploration games, is it really all that expensive to develop these style of games above on modern development tools?

I'd just like to quickly clarify that I only meant that indie games are profitable compared to AAA games, not that indie games are mostly high quality or great games to actually play. It's like how low budget horror films are usually profitable but are far from being actual good movies, personally I never liked the Friday the 13th movies but they still made a lot of them.

You're right about the issues with modern games, like being overly large worlds spread out and padded rather than being full of actual content. There's a lot I don't like about modern games in general. Even with me liking adventure games I don't like how short they now are, they feel like the freeware adventure games that were widely available about 15-20 years ago made in Adventure Game Studio, which were fine for free games but not worth paying for. I mostly like games from the PS2 era or earlier, there's hardly any from the PS3/360 era I actually like. There's probably some modern games I would like but I haven't been paying close attention to modern releases, I've mentally checked out of modern console games at this point. Just like I don't pay attention to Star Wars or Marvel movies anymore.