Fact or Fiction: Video game myths revealed

[stonic]

ET hardly was a significant cause in the NA game crash, or even Atari Inc's crash. It was really just a symptom of the real underlying problems within the market (and especially Atari themselves).

It's also very important to note that the video game market was only in a slump in '82 and '83, not a crash, until one very fateful event turned things into a perfect storm for a real crash.

Atari’s stock took a huge hit in early December 1982, which is when the industry’s downfall officially started. E.T. was not the cause, and even if the game wasn’t released, the crash still would have happened.

http://www.decodesystems.com/zap-atari.html

Several 3rd-party companies started going out of business in 83, and when they did, they sold their inventories to distributors who turned around and dumped it on the market for pennies on the dollar. That pretty much erased the market value of everyone's games and hurt everybody else.

That would be the home computer price war that ended up pushing computer prices down to (sometimes below) console prices. (though, in some cases, that was only short-term, like the C64's nominal $100 price due to a limited time $100 rebate with the trade in of any game console or computer)

You can thank Jack Tramiel for the fallout in the home computer market, which claimed weaker competitors like T.I. and Timex, but the game market for home computers like Atari’s and Commodore’s got even stronger b/c of the home console market crash. By 1984 most major 3rd-party software companies like Activision already started shifting their focus on the home computer market, as did publications like Electronic Games.

Of course, then there's the myths about how Jack Tramiel "ruined" Atari, dropped the 7800 until Nintendo showed them the game market was still viable, etc, etc. (actually, they'd been planning on relying on games to support the company from day 1, the only reason the 7800 got delayed as it did was that Warner made a mess of things and left that out of the original sale)
I addressed much of that here already:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...39#post1810739

He didn't ruin them, he just tied them to the back of his truck and drove it down a gravel road for 10+ years, while burning nearly everyone who ever signed a contract to do business with him.

You forgot to mention the 7800 actually saw limited release in 1984, as did the 2600 JR. Tramiel also went on record (after taking over Atari ) stating he had no interest in the video game market. His only interest was in the home computer market – primarily to seek revenge against Commdore for ousting him. When the video game console market took off 2 years later, there was a financial reason to dust off the 2600JR and 7800 (not to mention re-releasing the 8-bit computer hardware) – to sell off excess inventory. Even before he purchased Atari, he was responsible for why Atari's VCS keyboard device was never released - the engineers who designed it left Commdore and dared to do business with a competitor (Atari), so Tramiel sought revenge against them and tied them up in court with a b.s. lawsuit.

Oh, and of course there's the many, many lies and myths surrounding (usually created and perpetuated by) Nolan Bushnell.

Pretty much all of that (and a lot more) will be corrected in Curt Vendel and Marty Goldberg's upcoming books. (don't hold your breath though, it's going to be a fair while before those get completed and publishing)

Don't worry “kool kitty” (whoever you are ) I won't hold my breath b/c I doubt those two will correct any of that. They're clearly pro-Tramiel/anti-Bushnell, and any books they write will reflect their biased opinions. Tramiel was quite a ruthless and vengeful person and not just with competitors but with subcontractors, employees, etc. Bushnell made his share of mistakes in the business but he's done more for the history of video games than anyone ever did and ever will, esp someone like Tramiel. They can dig up all the memos, post-it notes, and napkin scrawlings they want, but history has already judged Bushnell and Tramiel.

[Haoie]

Where's Jonathan Frakes when you need him?

[Gameguy]

Video Game Myths: Revealed

[kool kitty89]

Atari’s stock took a huge hit in early December 1982, which is when the industry’s downfall officially started. E.T. was not the cause, and even if the game wasn’t released, the crash still would have happened.

http://www.decodesystems.com/zap-atari.html

Several 3rd-party companies started going out of business in 83, and when they did, they sold their inventories to distributors who turned around and dumped it on the market for pennies on the dollar. That pretty much erased the market value of everyone's games and hurt everybody else.

Several first parties also panicked and left the industry prematurely. Ironically, Coleco probably would have found a lot more profit in the CV DURRING the crash ('83/84) if they'd focused on that and not released the Adam. (of course, you could argue they could have designed the Adam to fit the market a lot better, but that's a separate discussion)

It's a shame that the CV didn't get a relatively capable company like Intev to manage things after Coleco ditched it.

You can thank Jack Tramiel for the fallout in the home computer market, which claimed weaker competitors like T.I. and Timex, but the game market for home computers like Atari’s and Commodore’s got even stronger b/c of the home console market crash. By 1984 most major 3rd-party software companies like Activision already started shifting their focus on the home computer market, as did publications like Electronic Games.

TI was most definitely NOT a lesser competitor, they just had really convoluted management and marketing.
With the TI/99, expansion on the machine was limited or (with the full external module) very expensive, RAM was very limited out of the box (a tiny scratchpad and VRAM for data -and cart ROM to work in), so expansion was very important.
Then there's the horrible decision to treat the damn thing like a game console and intentionally prevent 3rd parties from writing/publishing software for it.

TI had considerable resources, they just screwed things up badly. (had they managed things well from the get go, they should have easily sustained the temporary low-prices in mid/late 1983)

Timex was just localizing Sinclair machines, which generally ended up being cheap crap as far as the US market was concerned (Europe was a different story though). Actually, they rather screwed up too by not importing/localizing as much European software as possible, and not bringing the Spectrum over. (the only really worthwhile system, and soemthign they totally botched with a derivative full of feature creep -compromising the original bare-bones design- and, more importantly, dropping native compatibility with Spectrum software -European software support would have been critical)

Atari also made a lot of mistakes with their computers (different problems with the US and Europe), while CBM seemed to get the marketing and 3rd party support right in both regards with the VIC and C64.


The price war was certainly harmful to many on the market, but it did make business sense for CBM . . . at least it would have if things had been followed up better in 1984 onward. (there were a few bright spots in the late 80s, but the rest was pretty bad for CBM)

And yes, it was definitely unfortunate that Atari ended up putting themselves and the market in such a horrible position in '82/83 and then CBM entered the aggressive price war on top of that. (and Atari screwing up their computer market, so they couldn't even compete on that level -either in the lower-end/home market or even pushing into the business market -technically the A8 originally would have been like the Apple II with expansion support, but Warner/Atari management pushed it into an "appliance computer" design more like the PET, Macintosh, etc)

He didn't ruin them, he just tied them to the back of his truck and drove it down a gravel road for 10+ years, while burning nearly everyone who ever signed a contract to do business with him.

Umm, more like 4 years (he retired in late 1988), after that it was Sam managing (or mismanaging) things.
Michael Katz also left in early 1989, so Atari Corp lost 2 of the most important people who had managed to pull Atari Corp together up to that point.

I definitely wouldn't say "down the wrong road" either, they aimed at pushing video games and computers, but with different overall organization than Atari Inc had. (and also a horrible initial position because of the mess Warner had made, delaying things considerable)

Of course, Atari Corp wasn't Atari Inc at all, it was a totally different company that had taken on the properties of Atari Inc's former consumer electronics division.
It was Trammel Technologies Ltd with some of Atari's stuff added on.
And there's all the debt, limited funding, etc, etc that limited things heavily, and all the delays from the sloppy transition exacerbating that. (and then Nintendo's lock-in crippling them on the video game market)
As it was, they finally had the funding/credit/market position to push full-on into the mass market again around 1989 (at least with the right management -which Katz was obviously capable of), but they ended up not releasing any 4th generation game console at all and Sam ended up driving the computer line into the ground as well.


And while Tramiel was certainly a shrewd businessman, many of the companies that got "burned" (namely sued) had that happen for good reason.

You forgot to mention the 7800 actually saw limited release in 1984, as did the 2600 JR.

And??? That means almost nothing other than Morgan's Atari Inc was ready to launch both late that year.

The 7800 was delayed because of the horrible mess Warner made with the transition (which also ruined any chance of a decent working relationship with GCC and Atari Corp among many other things).

Plus, on the Jr specifically, it wouldn't have really made sense to start production until stockpiles of existing Vader models (and vader-specific components) had been largely depleted.

Tramiel also went on record (after taking over Atari ) stating he had no interest in the video game market.

Do you have a source for this? (BTW that "7800 thrown on the floor" anecdote is a myth as well)

Marty and Curt (MartyG is on the DP forums too, he's wgungfu on Atariage) have internal correspondence and information from Atari Corp that proves that they were interested in keeping the video games going from day 1. Their priorities were certainly different than Morgan's had been, but they definitely weren't abandoning video games.

Tramiel and Warner fought over the 7800 contract until early 1985, when Tramiel finally relented and paid for the GCC contract. (or MARIA and games, rather)
They couldn't legally sell any 7800s or games (even the few thousand in warehouses) until that was worked out.

Shortly after the 7800 mess was solved, Tramiel brought in Michael Katz to manage the video game/entertainment side of the business and (as a concession to Katz's hiring) formed the new Electronic Entertainment division.

Katz immediately went to work building up support for the 7800, but one of the first problems he hit (in mid 1985) was that nearly 100% of major Japanese developers/publishers were already locked in with Nintendo and couldn't be licensed.
Thus, Katz did the best alternative he could and went with computer game licenses in the US. (and later on some original games as well)

They never tapped the wealth of European computer games though, and it would definitely be interesting to find out why.

His only interest was in the home computer market – primarily to seek revenge against Commdore for ousting him.

Wrong, more myths.
His main goals were to keep the Japanese out of the US market (ironically the C64 and PC were enough to do that already, though the ST had a far bigger impact on Europe), and to leave a legacy for his sons, which he did in late 1988, with Atari Corp becoming a highly profitable fortune 500 company at that time. (of course, Sam seems to have destroyed that legacy with his mismanagement)

When the video game console market took off 2 years later, there was a financial reason to dust off the 2600JR and 7800 (not to mention re-releasing the 8-bit computer hardware) – to sell off excess inventory.

WTF???
They didn't "dust off" anything, the Jr project started up immediately after Atari Corp got settled and the 7800 started up again after the dispute with Warner was addressed.

It wasn't 2 years either, it was about 1 year. Mid 1985 was when the 2600 sales jumped substantially and depleted inventory to the extent that the Jr was put into mass production (but initial volumes were too low to keep up with demands in the christmas season). I believe the vader had still been in production up to that point as well, at least to the extent of using up most of the existing vader-specific parts. (and probably manufacturing more of the needed parts if there were substantial reserves of others -the PCBs, switches, and cases would be the main exclusive components for that model)

Even before he purchased Atari, he was responsible for why Atari's VCS keyboard device was never released - the engineers who designed it left Commdore and dared to do business with a competitor (Atari), so Tramiel sought revenge against them and tied them up in court with a b.s. lawsuit.

Hmm, really? I've never seen anything on that, though I HAVE seen info regarding how Atari Inc/warner management pushed that simple keyboard add-on into an overpriced mess ripe with feature creep that made it totally impractical for the mass market. (so in either case, it's moot since Atari ruined it )

Don't worry “kool kitty” (whoever you are ) I won't hold my breath b/c I doubt those two will correct any of that. They're clearly pro-Tramiel/anti-Bushnell, and any books they write will reflect their biased opinions.

No, they both believed many of the long-held "history" as well until they researched much further into things and found out how much had been obscured by myths.

They're not Pro-Tramiel or Anti-Bushnell, they're pro-reality.
Actually, I'd say they're pro-Morgan more than anything, since both seem to agree that he was the best overall CEO Atari Inc (or Corp) ever had. (his one big mistake was starting reorganization in fall of 1983, resulting in a halt in all production and most projects for several weeks and cost them the 1983 holiday season -what he managed following that in early/mid 1984 is what's truly impressive though; Atari Inc needed that sort of management back in mid 1982 or earlier)

Curt does have some personal bias against Bushnell after getting burned by him in a business deal years ago (I forget the specifics), but in any case he once believed most/all of the Bushnell myths as well.

Both of them recognize Bushnell for what he actually did and deserves credit for, but they also recognize the massive amount of credit he's stolen from others. (sometimes for things he never had any involvement in)
He's a great salesman, is very creative (good at "bouncing" ideas around), and can be a good motivator; those are the main areas he deserved credit. (and "salesman" is a generalization of his overall skills in manipulation)


Oh, and as for who I am, I'm one of the "displaced" Sega-16 guys, though I spend a lot of time on Atariage as well.

Tramiel was quite a ruthless and vengeful person and not just with competitors but with subcontractors, employees, etc.

I'm not so sure about vengeful, but ruthless probably isn't far off. (shrewd might be more applicable in some cases)

Bushnell made his share of mistakes in the business but he's done more for the history of video games than anyone ever did and ever will, esp someone like Tramiel.

Bushnell gets FAR more credit than is due him, not until Steve Jobs for that matter (who learned many of his tricks from Bushnell).

Bushnell is so full of his own BS it seems like he can't even remember the truth at times.

As for Tramel, I don't think anyone is saying he was any sort of "hero" in the video game market, he was a business man, and a rather capable one at that. (he made his mistakes too, of course, both at CBM and Atari Corp, but overall he was much better than his successors)
In context of Atari Corp, Katz would be the person of interest for the game side of things. He managed all the game development and marketing (within budget limits) of the 2600/7800/etc up to early 1989.

Hell, even Ray Kassar ended up being a huge step forward over Bushnell's management, though Kassar was obviously the wrong person for the job. (had they gotten someone like Morgan in there from the start, that could have been amazing)

They can dig up all the memos, post-it notes, and napkin scrawlings they want, but history has already judged Bushnell and Tramiel.

:lol: Yeah right, whatever, you can stick to your lies and BS all you want then if that's the sort of "judgement" you want.

The problem is that most of the "history" in the industry hadn't been proprly documented at all, and many assumptions and rumors ended up as "fact". (without real fact checking to back that up)

That's the main problem with Steve Kent's book too. A lot of good quotes, but no fact checking to confirm the material or statements used in the book. (he also missed many important individuals who would have provided such fact checking -Ted Dabney being a really obvious one)

BTW, did you read/listen to the recent interview of Dabney on Retro Gaming Roundup? (heh, that episode also addressed the New Mexico dumping site )
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144711

[c2000]

I'm getting a blank page?

[stonic]

@ "kool kitty"
It's clear who you're aligned with, and who you're speaking for, regardless of whether or not you're a "Sega-16" guy. I suggest you stop listening to certain fanboys with delusions of self-importance and start reading books with real substance, like Bagnall's "The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore", or start reading more articles and magazines regarding Tramiel and his plans for Atari circa 1984/85, because all J.T. ever talked about during that time was "computers, computers, computers". The video game market didn't concern him, or the software side of things in general. He never shook his 'calculator' mentality, much to Atari Corp's detriment. And with that, I shall waste no more time on you.

[The 1 2 P]

I'm getting a blank page?

Same here, even after clicking on the title link and comments link. But based on the responses here it looks like a bunch of stuff that I've already heard a million times in the last 10 years(especially ET, TW/SP and Sonic 3/MJ).

[kool kitty89]

It's working for me:
http://blog.games.yahoo.com/blog/624...myths-revealed