RetroDuo NES/SNES Clone Official Thread. Castlevania III, StarFox WORK, SMRPG WARNING

[Troglodyte]

as for the mini SNES, having only AV is just perfect, as RF is obsolete now

While I agree that RF has been obsoleet for a long time; S-Video is an improvement over standard AV (composite).
Composite suffers from visual problems / limitations, such as dot crawl.

The scan lines (on the Top loading NES) are caused by poor shielding

That's been proven not to be the case. I'd link to the documentation on this if I still knew where it was. The problem is believed to actually be caused by crosstalk between the internal circuits of the motherboard. So if you mean shielding in that respect, then you are correct. If you mean shielding in respect to outside interference, then no, this is not the cause, and any amount of shielding surrounding the inside of the console will not alleviate this issue.

With all of that said, if you know of a mod that has been proven to rid the top loading NES' infamous scan line problem; then I'd love to hear about it. However, right now, I have my doubts. Even if I don't have any intention of buying another one. I'd still like to keep informed.

Also, in addition to the Retro Duo, I own an AV Famicom. This console is basically the Japanese Famicom version of the top loading NES. However, unlike it's American counterpart; it features AV out, and does not suffer from any interference or scan line issues, not to mention audio problems. Although, I can not recommend long term use of this console with NES games; since using a Famicom to NES adapter (although I have one) over an extended period of time; can put unneeded amount of stress on both the NES games, as well as the console itself.

And the only way I'm getting a top loading NES is if it has AV and no scan lines. I'll have to confirm that before I make any purchase.

While the scan line problem has been severely improved with a newly discovered mod this time around, despite what may eBay modders might tell you; the scan lines are not entirely removed; they are still there, yet fainter. Also, I believe the picture is more saturated / brighter / darker / somewhat muddy or more sharp than the original. The mode uses a capacitor of a certain value to try and compensate for these issues, but it isn't perfect. Depending on the value of the capacitor(s) used in this mod; the quality of the picture will vary; but not the degree of visible scan lines. To my knowledge, no one has been able to find a 100% fix for the scan line problem. The old mod looked almost unbearable in a lot of games. I personally performed this one myself several years ago. The new mod is much better; but the scan lines have been proven to still be there; however faint they may appear.

[darth]

While I agree that RF has been obsoleet for a long time; S-Video is an improvement over standard AV (composite).
Composite suffers from visual problems / limitations, such as dot crawl

There are S-Video cables for the SNES. They can also be used on the N64 and GameCube.

Anyway, perhaps I should just buy a new 72-pin connector for my original NES and just use that for now. I just really want an easy-to-use, works first try, great quality NES system.

[Troglodyte]

There are S-Video cables for the SNES. They can also be used on the N64 and GameCube.

I'm aware of that. I assumed you were saying that only AV was perfect for the SNES mini. The SNES mini does not support S-Video.
Only the original SNES model(s) do. that is what I was referring to, in response to what you stated here:

as for the mini SNES, having only AV is just perfect, as RF is obsolete now

I assume, that we either miss understood each other, either that, or you didn't
understand that I was stating that just the SNES mini does not support S-Video.

[darth]

Oh okay, so you're saying that if I did get that cable and used it on a SNES mini, it just wouldn't output anything through S-Video?

[Ace]

You need to modify the Super NES Mini to get it to output S-Video, but honestly, it's not really worth it. I modified my Super NES Mini with S-Video, but the only difference between the Super NES Mini's Composite and S-Video is that the video has slightly less smearing. The difference is negligible.

As for the Top-Loader NES having bad video output, that's actually caused by the way Nintendo made the video circuit. It's too close to certain traces on the motherboard which are address lines, data lines and such. While I haven't done a full-blown Composite video mod on my Top-Loader NES(nor do I intend to do so unless the RF modulator fails), changing the way a few parts are hooked up on the video circuit and changing/adding a few parts reduced the intensity of the line noise and brightened the video, although I think what my Top-Loader NES really needs is a brand new video circuit based off the old circuit Nintendo used, but placed somewhere where it can't get too much interference.

And by the way, Darth, don't bother to buy a new 72-pin connector for your Front-Loader NES. Just tighten the existing cartridge slot and clean the crap out of it. Works wonders. Also make sure to disable the lockout chip.

[ZombieRyushu]

Is there a way to get a better NES S-Video output from the Retro Duo? Without the artifacting?

[Troglodyte]

As for the Top-Loader NES having bad video output, that's actually caused by the way Nintendo made the video circuit.
It's too close to certain traces on the motherboard which are address lines, data lines and such

Yes, that is basically what I meant when I said crosstalk.
You may have provided a clearer explanation though.

Anyway, I finally re-found the two sites that explain the scan line problem with the NES2 top loader much more in depth. Like I said, there is some debate about whether or not the new composite mod completely removes the scan lines; matching the level of composite video quality to that of the original toaster style NES or not. Also, some say that even the AV Famicom has very faint scan lines that are only visible in certain rare instances. Without a newly modded NES2 top loader in front of me to compare to the composite video output of both the original model NES and the AV Famicom; I can't say for certain. Either way, the NES2 top loader's RF and composite video output (with the original mod) was, at best, barely tolerable.

Anyway, here are the two sites that I was referring to earlier. They feature the most accurate and useful
information I could find concerning this often talked about, misunderstood, and sometimes confusing topic:

• NES 2 A/V Mod
• top loader - getting rid of bad video, lets figure this out!
  
  

Is there a way to get a better NES S-Video output from the Retro Duo? Without the artifacting?

No... first of all, no NOAC (or standard consumer level NES console for that matter), can output RGB, or even S-Video, as the PPU was designed specifically to output composite; straight from the source. I'm not sure why this was the case, as even a lot of older consoles where designed to convert an RGB signal to composite (well RF, in most cases). The famed Famicom Titler can; but that is another story.

The original NES and top loader can be modded with a PC10 PPU, to get RGB, and then another compatible NTSC / S-Video encoder can be run in parallel to convert the RGB signal to one of those; but there appears to be no such mod with a NOAC; since they are typically housed in fully self contained "glob-tops." Why they haven't figured out how to "reverse engineer" the PC10 PPU is beyond me. Although, they probably just don't want to spend the time and money, as most of the time, it's not simple to reverse engineer ICs.

As for the Retro Duo, and other clone consoles that appear to feature NES & S-Video outputs; the S-Video on the NES side is not native.
In reality, it is converted to S-Video from composite; which will always amount to some level of video degradation.

Hope that makes since.

[Ace]

Just discovered something else about the RetroDuo's video interference: if, like me, you've got your game consoles hooked up via switchboxes into your TV, be careful what switchbox you plug the RetroDuo into. I had it plugged into a Philips switchbox before plugging it into a Pelican switchbox. With the Philips switchbox, the interference was clearly visible on anything gray and white, but on the Pelican switchbox, the interference is practically invisible(but keep in mind that my RetroDuo is modified). So it would seem like some switchbox brands induce extra interference on the RetroDuo's already dirty video output.

[Arkhan]

pardon me for not reading all 11 pages.

How "off" is the audio compared to a real NES?

[MarioMania]

Can anyone answer me

Alot of seller on ebay selling the FC Twin Gun(Yellow Zapper)

All say it doen't work with the Retro Duo, Does it work??

[Ace]

pardon me for not reading all 11 pages.

How "off" is the audio compared to a real NES?

It's not that far off in reality, but when you take into consideration that there are 2 parts RetroBit omitted from the NES sound circuit, the sound strains like hell, making it sound more off than it really is.

I made 2 videos so far comparing my NES games between a RetroDuo and a Front-Loader NES. Have a look and see for yourself the differences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whZ3Id9k0OE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvcx6-2LEgI

[Arkhan]

K im convinced, that blows.

My FC-Twin isn't that bad though. I just checked.

its still crap compared to an original. so i guess its about what i would expect from knock offs. ....but man, that retro duo sure aint worth the pricetag. My fc-twins were like 20$



how bad is it with Chrono triggers tunes? or Secret of Mana