Master System better than the Nes & 7800 [Archive] - Page 2

tomaitheous

12-07-2009, 03:25 PM

You need to play more SMS games, then. :)

Contra
-Robocop vs. Terminator, Rygar

Battle of Olympus
-Alex Kidd: High-Tech World

Faxanadu
-Wonder Boy in Monster Land

Legacy of the Wizard
-Solomon's Key, The Castle

Blaster Master
-Zillion II

Kid Icarus
-The Ninja

Castlevania 1, 2, and 3
-Master of Darkness. Awesome game.

zelda 1 and 2:
-Golden Axe Warrior is definitely better than Zelda in almost every way.
-Lord of the Sword I like better than Zelda II.

Megaman
-Wonder Boy III

Those are some pretty weak comparisons on the SMS side (mostly). Some of the comparisons don't even makes sense. The Ninja and Kid Icarus?? Megaman to Wonder Boy III??? And Legacy of the Wizard is definitely a few leagues ahead of Solomen's Key (never played "the castle" but sounds pretty generic). And Zillion II or Blaster Master!?!? Come on.

I don't think you necessarily need to have the system BITD in order to judge its games. Many gamers get into the Genesis and/or PCE system, that never played them BITD. I personally went looking through SMS games to see if I could find all the hidden gems, since I missed out in N/A at the time (it had a weak library, so I skipped the system back then). Even though the SMS does have better graphics, I actually couldn't really see the difference back then. I think it's mostly the later gen games that really show off the systems graphics. That, and some Euro developed games. Of course, the system sound is ass. Some games have really horrible music that grates on my ear drums. While others are barely average. That's a deal breaker for me. NES has some of the most memorable 8bit music and it really set the feel the games. Even now, people put out some awesome sounding stuff via NES trackers and such. There are soo many more gems in the NES (US) library in comparison to *everything* in the entire SMS library (that includes Japan and EU).

pseudonym

12-07-2009, 03:29 PM

Those are some pretty weak comparisons on the SMS side (mostly). Some of the comparisons don't even makes sense. The Ninja and Kid Icarus?? Megaman to Wonder Boy III??? And Legacy of the Wizard is definitely a few leagues ahead of Solomen's Key (never played "the castle" but sounds pretty generic). And Zillion II or Blaster Master!?!? Come on.

I don't think you necessarily need to have the system BITD in order to judge its games. Many gamers get into the Genesis and/or PCE system, that never played them BITD. I personally went looking through SMS games to see if I could find all the hidden gems, since I missed out in N/A at the time (it had a weak library, so I skipped the system back then). Even though the SMS does have better graphics, I actually couldn't really see the difference back then. I think it's mostly the later gen games that really show off the systems graphics. That, and some Euro developed games. Of course, the system sound is ass. Some games have really horrible music that grates on my ear drums. While others are barely average. That's a deal breaker for me. NES has some of the most memorable 8bit music and it really set the feel the games. Even now, people put out some awesome sounding stuff via NES trackers and such. There are soo many more gems in the NES (US) library in comparison to *everything* in the entire SMS library (that includes Japan and EU).

The Castle was released as Castlequest on the NES I think. I've never played either long enough to make a comparison though. I would give him Solomon's Key over Legacy of the Wizard, I never liked LotZ at all.

tomaitheous

12-07-2009, 03:40 PM

I would give him Solomon's Key over Legacy of the Wizard, I never liked LotZ at all.

If you've actually played Legacy of the Wizard, you'd know they're not comparable. They are totally different games, other than looking a little bit similar (from screen shots). Just seeing the games in action, you can see the difference right away - let alone actually playing through them. Solomen's Key is a little arcade puzzler-ish style game. Legacy of the Wizard is an action-adventure (it's part of the Dragon Slayer RPG series from Falcom).

tom

12-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Trouble with the NES/Famicom and its 2000+ games library, maybe 100 excellent/good games, the rest is way below average.
SMS has a small US software range, but combined with the excellent European quality releases, the good outweighs the not so good gaming library.

BetaWolf47

12-07-2009, 03:44 PM

Wonder Boy in Monster Land is a much better comparison to Legacy of the Wizard.

chrisbid

12-07-2009, 03:47 PM

hardware - SMS > NES
library - NES > SMS

though i will say that early on (86 through 88) the SMS could hold its own with the NES in the library category. the NES really hit its stride later on, as Sega started focusing on the Genesis, leaving the SMS as a dumping ground of watered down genesis ports and other mediocre games.

Ed Oscuro

12-07-2009, 04:27 PM

If you've actually played Legacy of the Wizard, you'd know they're not comparable. They are totally different games, other than looking a little bit similar (from screen shots). Just seeing the games in action, you can see the difference right away - let alone actually playing through them. Solomen's Key is a little arcade puzzler-ish style game. Legacy of the Wizard is an action-adventure (it's part of the Dragon Slayer RPG series from Falcom).
Solomon's Key got a sequel on the Famicom, the highly sought-after Fire 'n' Ice. The SMS can stick that in its pipe and smoke it. :D

Trouble with the NES/Famicom and its 2000+ games library, maybe 100 excellent/good games, the rest is way below average.
Aside from the point that number is completely wrong (funny how these sorts of claims are never backed up by a "and I played them all"), I feel that the SMS probably has a similar ratio of good to forgettable. It probably doesn't have the same quantity of games that many gamers simply do not get because the SMS had relatively limited development compared to the NES. Basically, if it's nearly a cult system here in the US and Japan it's not going to get the wide range of unique (some of them good, imagine!) games that the NES did. There's nothing remotely like Metal Storm, or (as far as I know) quite like Shatterhand or Power Blade on the SMS.

One of the segments that gets hyped up on the SMS - the top-down shooter stuff - consists of games like Alien Syndrome, The Ninja, Time Soldiers, and Ashura / Rambo. Two of those games (the two arguably good ones) are arcade ports; Time Soldiers is already getting to average (i.e. not good) territory, yet is another arcade port; Ashura is definitely below average. This subgenre and many others has been done better on the NES with games like Jackal, Guerrilla War, and others like Ikari Warriors, TNK III's port, and so on. (Actually, I'd say the theme here is that SNK's arcade ports did better for Sega than Sega's not leveraging or properly porting many of its own properties like Bullet or Moonwalker properly, at least for the SMS, possibly because the arcade hardware was so far beyond the SMS). There definitely are some bright spots like Compile games, but those are on the Nintendo systems as well.

tom

12-07-2009, 04:48 PM

Solomon's Key got a sequel on the Famicom, the highly sought-after Fire 'n' Ice. The SMS can stick that in its pipe and smoke it. :D

Aside from the point that number is completely wrong (funny how these sorts of claims are never backed up by a "and I played them all"), I feel that the SMS probably has a similar ratio of good to forgettable. It probably doesn't have the same quantity of games that many gamers simply do not get because the SMS had relatively limited development compared to the NES. Basically, if it's nearly a cult system here in the US and Japan it's not going to get the wide range of unique (some of them good, imagine!) games that the NES did. There's nothing remotely like Metal Storm, or (as far as I know) quite like Shatterhand or Power Blade on the SMS.

Just visit the Japan Nintendo museum, where you can see the 2000+ games (obviously doubles between Famicom and NES exist. But Famicom approx 1100 titles, plus the 150 disk titles, the rest is NES with rest of the world titles), so it IS already backed up. Nevermind, you cannot know everything, but you are right in one claim....Most US people NEVER played the European-exclusives SMS titles, try them and you will be surprised. The NES will never match the sheer quality of titles, which you can find on the SMS.

blue lander

12-07-2009, 05:06 PM

Orion Pimpdaddy

12-07-2009, 05:13 PM

I also feel that the Master System deserves more acknowledgement that it gets. Most people don't know Master System very well in the US because at that time Nintendo had a strong grip on the video game industry, and they far out marketed Sega's platform. They also bullied it right out of the ring by telling retailers not to sell Master System if they wanted to sell Nintendo as well. (Nintendo was where the big money was, so retailers dumped Sega like a rock) And they also forbid the thrid party developers from making Master System games. (Again, Nintendo was where the money was so they happily obliged) It'd be nice to see what the Master System could have been if it had more support.

However, I have to disagree with you on some of those game comparisons. Double Dragon was just an inferior mock-up of the arcade game and the play control was ass. The NES Double Dragon may have had less colors, but the gameplay was nice and solid and they knew they couldn't accurately reproduce the arcade game, so they created something new that was a great game on it's own rather than just an inferior arcade port. And Ninja Gaiden on the SMS was a nice platformer, but forgettable for the most part. The NES Ninja Gaiden's rock-solid play control, great story told through cinema scenes and awsome music made it soar above other incarnations of the game. That was the full meal deal, man.

Anyway, it's nice to see love for the Sega Master System, I need to look into it more myself. (I own one, but hardly any games!)

A discussion about how Nintendo treated SEGA is a whole other conversation. The discussion is about which one is better.

grolt

12-07-2009, 05:49 PM

Of course, the system sound is ass. Some games have really horrible music that grates on my ear drums. While others are barely average. That's a deal breaker for me. NES has some of the most memorable 8bit music and it really set the feel the games. Even now, people put out some awesome sounding stuff via NES trackers and such.

I quite like the SMS system sound, but if you get the Japanese Master System (or the Mark III with an FM adapter) the FM sound really opens things up. Makes a lot of the games sound really great. I think on its own though, there are some amazingly memorable tracks. The entire Golvellius soundtrack is really standout, and I have a number of other games in my music cue: Ys, Phantasy Star, Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars, Astro Warrior, Wonder Boy 1-3, Rygar, Pit Pot, Enduro Racer, Penguin Land, SpellCaster, High School Kimengumi!, Sonic, etc. That's not including the solid audio conversions of arcade games like the Fantasy Zones, Space Harriers and Golden Axe.

I certainly do like a lot of the NES soundtracks, but when you're comparing the sound from each system it really comes down to audible preference. Something like graphics, where the SMS can map way more colors that you can easily see, is much more cut and dry.

As for the comparisons, some don't match up but I tried the closest ones. There may not be a game identical to Kid Icarus on the SMS, just like there probably aren't direct comparisons to Rescue Mission, Virtua Fighter Animation, Thunder Blade, Cyborg Hunter or Blade Eagle 3-D on the NES.

Ed Oscuro

12-07-2009, 05:54 PM

Just visit the Japan Nintendo museum, where you can see the 2000+ games (obviously doubles between Famicom and NES exist. But Famicom approx 1100 titles, plus the 150 disk titles, the rest is NES with rest of the world titles), so it IS already backed up.
Having a lot of games is not the same as having a low ratio of good games. You keep repeating this claim without bringing up any concrete examples. The cycle of stupidity is unbroken, hooray!

Nevermind, you cannot know everything,
Knowing that is much preferred to simply believing I do, like yourself. Oh, your humility is certainly inspiring!

but you are right in one claim....Most US people NEVER played the European-exclusives SMS titles, try them and you will be surprised. The NES will never match the sheer quality of titles, which you can find on the SMS.
Why do I need to visit some Nintendo museum when I can browse through my own small collection? I can easily find games on the NES that the SMS simply doesn't have any counterpart for, leaving alone the deficit of Konami titles (to name one of the big names). Sega's great strategy of releasing arcade ports scattershot in one market or another wasn't coming close to plugging the mindshare gap, either (come on, Australia was the only place to get Shadow Dancer? Should Australians feel honored or irritated, at that?)

Arasoi tells me he's up to double your arbitrary number of "good" games and he's not collecting for quantity. You're full of baloney, as usual. I love the arrogance too, especially when you didn't even bother to address the main point - you're just assuming most of the FC / NES library is bad without ever having played it, yet we're supposed to dig into the dark recesses of the SMS to find good games.

Hint: I've already mentioned the one European SMS exclusive I've found that I give two rat droppings about. If you think I'm missing out on some title or other, why not dispense with the self-aggrandizing and just name one? For chrissakes you're a real piece of work.

vivaeljason

12-07-2009, 06:20 PM

Ed Oscuro

12-07-2009, 06:33 PM

Something like graphics, where the SMS can map way more colors that you can easily see, is much more cut and dry.
Not to bash the SMS, but how do you figure? Unless you've got color blindness, you should easily be able to distinguish far more colors than the SMS is capable of generating natively, probably including any color artifacts on old-style tubes. "Wide-gamut" computer monitors for graphics professionals don't hit the whole RGB color space (after all these years they can finally do more than the NTSC color space, say 130% or so) and RGB doesn't match the number of colors the human eye can see (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/cie.html). Simultaneously, I'm not sure; I think I heard somewhere that some folks (primarily women-folk) can see 40 shades of green simultaneously.

grolt

12-07-2009, 06:35 PM

I'm probably the biggest SMS fan out there, but I'm not going to deny that there are a lot more "classics" on the NES than there are on the SMS, even if I will assert that the ratio of good to bad is certainly much better on the SMS (way less sports titles or dodgy third party companies). The reason for this, of course, is two fold. One being that the SMS couldn't secure the big third party developers that the NES did, but the other is that because the SMS did so poorly in Japan and the US, the Japanese developers pulled the plug on the system shortly after the US jumped ship, too. So while the SMS still had a long life in Europe and Brazil, without the wizardry behind the Japanese development (lets face it, at that point in history they were basically the only place that could make great inventive games) just wasn't there.

So I think a fair comparison would be comparing the lives of each system up until the point where Japan jumped ship on the SMS (roughly 1991), or even better to just look at first party output up to that point.

The reason the classics to crap ratio would be significant is for us collectors. It's the reason I go for SMS rather than the NES or Genesis - I'd rather have a bunch of cool arcade ports or original games than six different iterations of EA NHL games or Joe Montana Football.

grolt

12-07-2009, 06:38 PM

Not to bash the SMS, but how do you figure? Unless you've got color blindness, you should easily be able to distinguish far more colors than the SMS is capable of generating natively, probably including any color artifacts on old-style tubes. "Wide-gamut" computer monitors for graphics professionals don't hit the whole RGB color space (after all these years they can finally do more than the NTSC color space, say 130% or so) and RGB doesn't match the number of colors the human eye can see (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/cie.html). Simultaneously, I'm not sure; I think I heard somewhere that some folks (primarily women-folk) can see 40 shades of green simultaneously.

Sorry, I meant to say that the SMS can display more on screen colors than you could see on the NES. You don't get that ugly green/ugly brown look on the SMS like you do on so many NES games.

Graham Mitchell

12-07-2009, 07:26 PM

grolt

12-07-2009, 08:13 PM

Look, I have both machines, I love them both, but your argument here is kind of pathetic, and ill-informed.

If you'd read the posts just above yours, you'd realize this smarmy attack is pointless, as the issues have already been addressed by myself and others. Since you own both machines and are of the informed persuasion, please do offer up a more suitable list.

pseudonym

12-07-2009, 09:01 PM

Arasoi

12-07-2009, 09:03 PM

I own a Japanese SMS MK2000(with "import" adapter), two Sharp Famicom Twins (AN-500, and AN-505) and an old NES deck. I own lots of games for these consoles as well and like them both equally.

SMS has some great titles for it like Phantasy Star, Bubble Bobble (unique from other ports, more levels), Ghouls and Ghosts (unique from other ports also), Psycho Fox, the Fantasy Zone games (the color palette is very close to arcade on these), Ninja Gaiden, Sonic 1, etc etc. If you take the time to look into the SMS/MKIII/SG1000/SG3000 library you could easily build a good collection of a hundred games, probably lots more that were top quality.

It's easy to argue that the SMS has a great library and has games just as good as the Famicom/NES because it does. It is a worthy system, I considered it worthy enough to spend a good chunk of change on a MK2000 model and then order the cart adapter for the expansion port.

But to say that it has *as many* good games as the Famicom/NES is ridiculous, there were simply not enough of them produced over it's lifespan to come close. This is not biased commentary, just the fact that not enough SMS/MKIII games were produced worldwide to match Famicom/NES. If you toss in SG1000 and SG3000 you can tip the scales a bit, but those games are not really valid in this argument because they're not SMS/MKIII games.

At the core of it, this is just another system vs system debate with no payoff, SMS/MKIII guys will like SMS/MKIII, NES/FC guys will like NES/FC. The reality is that both are worthy systems, worth buying and getting games for.

PS - lol at thread starter stating the Tec Toy released unfinished Battletoads in Battlemaniacs is as good as NES battletoads, that game is buggy as hell cause it was never finished properly. Some of the comparison examples are great but this one is a joke.

Graham Mitchell

12-07-2009, 09:29 PM

If you'd read the posts just above yours, you'd realize this smarmy attack is pointless, as the issues have already been addressed by myself and others. Since you own both machines and are of the informed persuasion, please do offer up a more suitable list.

Some of that was just sarcastic, so don't get all butt-hurt.

However, I did read those posts, and I was so blown away by some of your comparisons that, well, I felt you hadn't been chastized enough ;)

But if you want me to give a case by case response, here goes.

Contra-I've only played the Genesis version of Robocop Vs. Terminator, so the two could be more similar than I'm aware of. So I don't know about that comparison. I've already stated my opinion on Rygar. Quartet may be the closest thing, but the gameplay is so stiff that it doesn't hold a candle to Contra.

Battle of Olympus--You're not going to find a great comparison to this on the Master System, but Wonder Boy III-The Dragon's Trap is probably the closest thing to this or Zelda II that you're going to see. That goes for Faxanadu as well.

Legacy of the Wizard--Nothing like it on the master system. Penguin Land may have some mechanical similarities, but it's more like Lode Runner, and doesn't have the open gameplay.

Blaster Master--Nothing like it on the Master System as far as I can remember.

Kid Icarus--Nothing like it on the Master System

Castlevania--I've only played a little bit of Master of Darkness. It is excellent, and very similar. Does it have branching paths/multiple playable characters like CVIII?

Zelda 1-Golden Axe Warrior is a pretty blatant me-too effort, but it's a damn good one, I'll give you that. I don't think the ambience and the fiction is nearly as compelling as Zelda, and link is such a distinctly fascinating protagonist that the whole game is pretty difficult to top.

Megaman and Wonderboy III are both side scrollers and sort of have the "adopt another character's powers" thing going on, but that's where the similarities end.

If you really want to praise the SMS, maybe you should talk about experiences on the SMS that NES stalwarts will never have, like some of the following:

Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa--I'd pick this one out of the SMS Fantasy Zone titles because there are better versions of Fantasy Zone 1 available (See the Sega Ages version on the PS2--probably the best version we'll ever see.) But FZII demonstrates the strengths of the SMS beautifully. It's colorful, every sprite has some impressive animation going on which really brings the game to life, and the gameplay and control is as tight and responsive as it gets. Plus, it's actually got some pretty unique gameplay, being a non-linear shooter. Essential SMS title.

Zillion: A masterpiece, true, but it's not comparable to Metroid. If anything, Zillion is a tribute to Impossible Mission. Whether it's a better game than IM depends on whether you're a Right or Left-brained person. Either way, Zillion is tight, decent-looking, engrossing, and challenging. If you own an SMS and you don't own this game, get it. You won't regret it.

Penguin Land--a truly inspired, beautiful puzzler that's a cross between Lode Runner and...Ico? Those who have played it will probably understand that comparison.

Choplifter-The Famicom and 7800 versions are shit. Second to only the arcade version, SMS Choplifter's pretty badass.

Phantasy Star--Need I even say it? In my opinion, they never topped the first Phantasy Star. Later PS games feel buggy and rushed. But the first one is masterfully crafted and remarkably beautiful. My experience with RPG's before this were Ultima: Exodus and Dragon Warrior on the NES, and I truly believed that all RPG's were going to look like shit on a console. PS raised the bar considerably.

Spellcaster--An interesting blend of Shadogate-style point-and-click adventure games and sub-par platforming. Truthfully, I don't think it's a great example of either genre, and if my memory serves me correctly the learning curve is pretty skewed. The game's a breeze except for one or two parts. But, it's interesting to see the interplay between these two gameplay styles. In addition, the visuals are very moody and atmospheric, and the soundtrack does a great job lending a sense of creepy tension and urgency.

Golvellius: Valley of Doom--Compile's stab at Crystalis (even thought I think Golvellius came first, and Crystallis is infinitely deeper than Golvellius. But they have a similar feel.) There's some nearly game-breaking typos in this, so GameFaqs is a must, but all in all this is a fantastic game. The Guardian Legend had a similar monetary system where you had to pay to increase the max amount of gold/chips you can carry.

There are probably a few more worth mentioning, but this is all that comes to mind right now.

End rant.

nebrazca78

12-07-2009, 11:17 PM

IMO NES is little more than an annoyance. I was THE biggest NES fan when it first came out after playing SMB. Unfortunately besides the other SMB games almost every other game was a letdown. I never got in to Castlevania or Contra, they just weren't that much fun. I was playing Shinobi instead. So much cooler. I thought Dragon Warrior was fun but playing Miracle Warriors blew it away so bad it wasn't even funny. The only really fun thing about Dragon Warrior was trying to kill the metal slimes. I've never played an NES game that even comes close to The Ninja. And then you've got the 3-D glasses for SMS, NES has what, the power glove? Barf. Not to mention how annoying NES fanboys were, rarely had they ever even played SMS before going on and on about how much better NES was. Plus the NES looks so gay. At least NES had a great controller, SMS MUST be played with a Genesis 6-button.

j_factor

12-08-2009, 12:41 AM

These NES vs SMS arguments always crack me up. I'll agree that there are some SMS games that are superior to some NES games and that the SMS has a higher quality to crap ratio, but the list of great NES titles far outnumbers the list of great SMS titles even if you include the Euro and Japanese releases. Like, Phantasy Star is admittedly better than Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy, but the NES has four Dragon Warrior games plus the one Final Fantasy title. I'll take the system with 5 great RPGs over the one with one slightly greater RPG. I'll take three Castlevania games over one Master of Darkness and I'd take 6 Megaman games and 3 Marios over just Wonderboy II and Wonderboy III.

This is a good point, but it also depends on your perspective. Are Dragon Warrior 1-4 and Final Fantasy versus Phantasy Star, five great RPGs versus one greater RPG, or are they five mediocre RPGs versus one good one? Is it really three Castlevania games against Master of Darkness, or is Castlevania III the only one worth playing on NES? (IMO it is) I personally just don't like the old Mega Man games, but I also wouldn't count Wonder Boy III for SMS, as I have the Turbografx version.

I guess because I'm not hugely fond of that era of gaming, I have a higher bar than most. I've played just about every US NES release as well as the handful of European exclusives, and out of the seven hundred and something games, I personally only consider about 50 to be worth my time, maybe even less. But if I include Japanese releases and games that are available as reproductions, that number goes up considerably. On SMS it's a bigger number for Western releases, but the system gains nothing to me by including Japanese imports or reproductions. So they're pretty close overall.

PresidentLeever

12-08-2009, 12:59 AM

I quite like the SMS system sound, but if you get the Japanese Master System (or the Mark III with an FM adapter) the FM sound really opens things up. Makes a lot of the games sound really great. I think on its own though, there are some amazingly memorable tracks. The entire Golvellius soundtrack is really standout, and I have a number of other games in my music cue: Ys, Phantasy Star, Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars, Astro Warrior, Wonder Boy 1-3, Rygar, Pit Pot, Enduro Racer, Penguin Land, SpellCaster, High School Kimengumi!, Sonic, etc. That's not including the solid audio conversions of arcade games like the Fantasy Zones, Space Harriers and Golden Axe.

I certainly do like a lot of the NES soundtracks, but when you're comparing the sound from each system it really comes down to audible preference. Something like graphics, where the SMS can map way more colors that you can easily see, is much more cut and dry.

A problem with the FM in Mark III is how primitive it is and how the composers didn't put it to good use. The games sound like early Genesis stuff at best, but with toy instrument drums. Those are some great soundtrack picks though, I'd add Alien 3 and The Flash to that lot.

As for SMS music being made today:
http://8bitcollective.com/music/kulor/So+Kawaii+Space+Puppy+%28Sega+Master+System%29/
http://8bitcollective.com/music/RushJet1/Final+Conflict+%28SMS%29/

tomaitheous

12-08-2009, 01:50 AM

I think on its own though, there are some amazingly memorable tracks.

I personally think the FM sound on the Mark III is pretty limited. FM is great, when you have full control over the operators/modulators. The FM unit is a big step up from the original SMS sound, but to be honest - I don't find it that much better than what I've heard from NES games - if at all. And if I recall, most composers really miss the boat when doing FM tracks and ignoring the PSG. FM is very nicely complimented by PSG, especially the limited FM chip in the Japanese version. But the original PSG unit of the SMS as it stands, is pretty horrible. No duty cycles, no triangle channel, no selectable period system (frequency range) for the noise channel unless you give up a square channel, no separate PCM or DPCM channel. Even the period range for the bland square channels are half that of NES. And the SMS came out *after* the NES (2 years). There's just no excuse. And not just old stuff, new stuff too. There are music compo's out there and all the SMS entries just sound sound sub par instrument wise. A *good* SMS PSG soundtrack doesn't grate on the nerves, but I've fond none that are actually memorable or even close to whats available on NES top tier list. Well, memorable probably if you grew up playing game X.

This is a good point, but it also depends on your perspective. Are Dragon Warrior 1-4 and Final Fantasy versus Phantasy Star, five great RPGs versus one greater RPG, or are they five mediocre RPGs versus one good one?

Well, they definitely aren't mediocre. Dragon Warrior 1 might be pretty simplistic, but it's got multiple towns/people/dialog and some story events. DW 2-4 really expand on the series. And Final Fantasy 1 was pretty awesome (love the nes sound track to that game). Too bad we didn't get FF2 and FF3 over here. FF1 came out here as FF3 was coming out in Japan. Like DW, the series really evolved after the first title. I love the PS series ( well, PS2/PSIV/PSOnline original). I couldn't much get into PS I. I'm not a big fan of 3D dungeons and the PSG music is kinda bad too. I might try to play it again with the FM patch, since people really rave about the game and story.

While there's no way the SMS library of top titles rivals that of NES top games (unless you're a fan of that pre NES era, then you might like the SMS more. SMS has quite a bit of simplistic style games of the previous era, just with graphic upgrades and such). Since this thread is about "VS", but otherwise - the systems really compliment each other IMO. The library of games are not clones of each other. When you play SMS, it doesn't feel like you're playing an NES and vice versa (this is a good thing). If you're a fan of the 8bit console generation, there's no excuse not to have and enjoy both consoles library. Especially if you only had one console growing up and want to experience something different/new from that generation.

tom

12-08-2009, 02:26 AM

Also, although all joypads are a stupid Japanese invention, having the controls the wrong way around, the SMS controllers are easier to use and far more responsive.

Thing about the NES is US people got conned into buying into it, bit like a communist regime from Nintendo, if shops stocked other systems, Nintendo would remove the NES...like take it or leave it (source: Game Over the book). Oh well, it's nice to NOT have a choice, isn't it?

tom

12-08-2009, 02:44 AM

Hint: I've already mentioned the one European SMS exclusive I've found that I give two rat droppings about. If you think I'm missing out on some title or other, why not dispense with the self-aggrandizing and just name one? For chrissakes you're a real piece of work.

There are plenty, but if you cannot be bothered to find out about it (as you already admitted to it), your loss not mine. Remember, video games are like an adventure of discovery for yourself, but if you are so narrow minded, your choice.

And thanks for the nice compliment, that is very kind of you.

Arkhan

12-08-2009, 02:51 AM

You need to play more SMS games, then. :)

Every game you mentioned, I have played, or own. Some on other systems even.

Contra
-Robocop vs. Terminator, Rygar

Rygar was on NES too and is so uncontra its not even funny, and RvT is just a dumb comparison.

SMS lacked an action packed sidescrolling run and gun game. Live with it.

Battle of Olympus
-Alex Kidd: High-Tech World

:above me:
Really? Did you even PLAY battle of olympus? What the fuck does high tech world have to do with Greek mythology? Not to mention, AK in High Tech world is a puzzle-like game (HAI, WHO IS THE ARROW POINTIN' AT! ROFL). More implication that you haven't even played Battle of Olympus, which might as well be called battle of awesome, because it's a perfect game.

christ man, there are NINJAS in alex kidd.

Faxanadu
-Wonder Boy in Monster Land

No. Level based platformers do not compare to free roaming adventure games. Just because Wonder boy in monster land has some RPG elements and boss battles doesn't mean it can compare. -_-

Legacy of the Wizard
-Solomon's Key, The Castle

You've never played legacy of the wizard and are going off screenshots eh? Solomons Key, and Castle Excellent/The Castle are PUZZLE games. Legacy of the Wizard is a far different game. Multiple characters, exploration, action, ....Solomons Key? Really? ROFL

Blaster Master
-Zillion II

Yes because a side scrolling shooter/platformer is EXACTLY the same as a giant exploration game with overhead action scenes. What is their similarity? They both got a space-car and a guy with a gun? :whip:

Kid Icarus
-The Ninja

This isn't even worth explaining.

Castlevania 1, 2, and 3
-Master of Darkness. Awesome game.

Well, you finally got one right.

zelda 1 and 2:
-Golden Axe Warrior is definitely better than Zelda in almost every way.
-Lord of the Sword I like better than Zelda II.

Eh, this ones a matter of opinion. Lord of the Sword is dopey IMO.

Megaman
-Wonder Boy III
Get out.

after this, I think YOU need to play more NES games.

tomaitheous

12-08-2009, 02:52 AM

Also, although all joypads are a stupid Japanese invention

Oh, you're one of those gamers. Haven't I've seen you on an Amiga retro forum? :P

Thing about the NES is US people got conned into buying into it, bit like a communist regime from Nintendo, if shops stocked other systems, Nintendo would remove the NES...like take it or leave it (source: Game Over the book). Oh well, it's nice to NOT have a choice, isn't it?

Yeah, we stupid US kids (and don't forget Canadians and Mexicans, you might as well say NA like we say EU) didn't have any choice but to buy an NES :roll: It's great when someone outside the country drops such a comment from such experience. Last I remember, SMS was in *every* major game store and even in the little stores. We had lots of playable SMS kiosks in stores. That's where I first played an SMS (got to try out something like 15-20 games). TG16 and Genesis were also out here in 1989 in all the major stores and quite a bit of the minor stores. And there were *tons* of computer software only shops out before and after NES came out. We had plenty of options. Matter of fact, Atari was selling a repackaged 2600 @ $50 in 1986. Both Play World and Tory R US (major toys only stores) had them. I knew a few people that got them for xmas. Not to mention how popular Arcades were back in the NES days. They were *always* packed. And I had been to lot of them in my city. We had a lot of options.

tom

12-08-2009, 02:58 AM

Oh, you're one of those gamers. Haven't I've seen you on an Amiga retro forum? :P

Yeah, we stupid US kids (and don't forget Canadians and Mexicans, you might as well say NA like we say EU) didn't have any choice to but to buy an SMS :roll: It's great when someone outside the country drops such a comment from such experience. Last I remember, SMS was in *every* major game store and even in the little stores. We had lots of playable SMS kiosks in stores. That's were I first played an SMS (got to try out something like 15-20 games). TG16 and Genesis were also out here in 1989 in all the major stores and quite a bit of the minor stores. And there were *tons* of computer software only shops out before and after NES came out. We had plenty of options. Matter of fact, Atari was selling a repackaged 2600 @ $50 in 1986. Both Play World and Tory R US (major toys only stores) had them. I knew a few people that got them for xmas. Not to mention how popular Arcades were back in the NES days. They were *always* packed. And I had been to lot of them in my city. We had a lot of options.

Yeah, I knew as usual obviously Nintendo overexaggerated. But think about this: Who is more right, a book (Game Over), which is acknowledged by people and staff from Japan and US Nintendo, or you? It is well known, those bullying tactics were enforced by Nintendo in the USA.

Never been on an Amiga forum, sorry, wrong Tom. I AM THE REAL PIECE.

tomaitheous

12-08-2009, 03:08 AM

IMO NES is little more than an annoyance. I was THE biggest NES fan when it first came out after playing SMB. Unfortunately besides the other SMB games almost every other game was a letdown.

Hahaha. That means you were an SMB fan, *not* an NES fan. SMB 2 and 3 were good (even the original, which was an awesome pack in game) - but almost everything else was a let down? Are you sure you're a gamer? Maybe you were a PC gamer and just had the SMB bug or something ;) PC gamers almost never liked console games BITD.

tom

12-08-2009, 03:23 AM

Hahaha. That means you were an SMB fan, *not* an NES fan. SMB 2 and 3 were good (even the original, which was an awesome pack in game) - but almost everything else was a let down? Are you sure you're a gamer? Maybe you were a PC gamer and just had the SMB bug or something ;) PC gamers almost never liked console games BITD.

This was posted on AA once, name 100 good NES games...no-one could. One US NES owner mentioned that there were many, many NES games to choose from, mostly renting games from Blockbusters, only to insert the game, check it out for 2 minutes, said game was bad, and you'd get back to your *old* (hey, I can do that asterisk thing too, PC user, me) tried and tested NES library of SMB, Zelda, Metroid and maybe a few more. Rented game was put back on the kitchen table to be returned.

tom

12-08-2009, 03:28 AM

Also, although all joypads are a stupid Japanese invention...

Hey, I'm quoting myself, how fun.

Anyway, before some comedian here posts....but left handed control was already done with the Vectrex...blah, blah....1-up.

Zap!

12-08-2009, 03:30 AM

8bitdude's last post on DP was two years ago. I guess he was just a disgruntled SEGA fan with a chip on his shoulder. I liked this thread, it was a heated fanboy nerd argument straight from the past...

And we, the Nintendo fanboys, crushed that SEGA loving twit with our clearly superior taste in video entertainment. Because then, and now, we're playing with POWER. :D

The funny thing about me is I truly loved the SMS. I never felt the same about the Genesis or Saturn.

Zap!

12-08-2009, 03:32 AM

I would never have considered buying one over a NES though - Super Mario Bros. was an absolute must have, and the SMS had nothing even close to it in my eyes.

I always felt Alex Kidd In Miracle World was superior. "Nothing not even close"? AKIMW isn't at least close to you?

grolt

12-08-2009, 03:35 AM

Rygar was on NES too and is so uncontra its not even funny, and RvT is just a dumb comparison.
Then you clearly haven't played Rygar on the Mark III, which is about as close to side-scrolling run and gun as you get, although your weapon is on a retractable chain. Still, virtually the same principle. The NES version is much different. I don't know how RvT is a dumb comparison. You run, you gun, there are multiple platform heights on each level. Does it need to take place in a jungle?

SMS lacked an action packed sidescrolling run and gun game. Live with it.
Yeah, it definitely wasn't bursting at the seams with them, but whatever, there were more than enough horizontal gun games that do the trick.

Really? Did you even PLAY battle of olympus? What the fuck does high tech world have to do with Greek mythology? Not to mention, AK in High Tech world is a puzzle-like game (HAI, WHO IS THE ARROW POINTIN' AT! ROFL). More implication that you haven't even played Battle of Olympus, which might as well be called battle of awesome, because it's a perfect game.
AK:HTW is a puzzle game? Are you sure you've played it? Sure, the settings are different, but the comparison seems apropos. Both have talky town exploration and a little bit of RPG thrown in between some outside side-scrolling action sequences. Some bits of Olympus remind me of Golvellius, too, especially the cavernous stuff. It's not Greek, though, but that's merely a superficial flourish, right?

No. Level based platformers do not compare to free roaming adventure games. Just because Wonder boy in monster land has some RPG elements and boss battles doesn't mean it can compare. -_-
Alright, then how about Wonder Boy III instead, that's about as free roaming as you get.

You've never played legacy of the wizard and are going off screenshots eh? Solomons Key, and Castle Excellent/The Castle are PUZZLE games. Legacy of the Wizard is a far different game. Multiple characters, exploration, action, ....Solomons Key? Really? ROFL
It may be pedestrian by comparison, but I still find great similarity between the style and structure of both The Castle and Legacy of the Wizard. Both take place in block built, labyrinthine castles where you're backtracking and going back from screen to screen. The Castle is admittedly more puzzle-y and Legacy of the Wizard is more action-y, but whatever. Happy to provide the belly laugh.

Yes because a side scrolling shooter/platformer is EXACTLY the same as a giant exploration game with overhead action scenes. What is their similarity? They both got a space-car and a guy with a gun? :whip:
Admittedly, I was reaching there, but side-perspective parts of Blaster Master do remind me of Zillion II, and yes, superficially they are similar. Hey, you were discounting Alex Kidd: High-Tech World because it didn't fit the superficial Greek coating of Battle of Olympus, so which double standard is it?

Kid Icarus is really the only one where I can't really find any logical comparison. I picked The Ninja because both are up scrolling action games that work on simple graphics and gameplay. I wish there were a few games more like Icarus on the SMS.

Eh, this ones a matter of opinion. Lord of the Sword is dopey IMO.
You said there really aren't any games like Zelda 1 or 2 on the SMS. There definitely are. It doesn't boil down to opinion at all. If you need more Zelda clones there is Ys and Golvellius. Two great games. The SMS certainly didn't lag when it came to action-RPGs.

after this, I think YOU need to play more NES games.
I've played my fair share, although certainly not as many as I have on the Master System. Still, the point was to illustrate that there are definitely comparative titles on both platforms. It was meant for positive suggestion rather than some combative attack, and I've tried to elaborate, but whatever, take what you will.

Arkhan

12-08-2009, 04:12 AM

Then you clearly haven't played Rygar on the Mark III, which is about as close to side-scrolling run and gun as you get, although your weapon is on a retractable chain. Still, virtually the same principle. The NES version is much different. I don't know how RvT is a dumb comparison. You run, you gun, there are multiple platform heights on each level. Does it need to take place in a jungle?

Its not the same kind of game. Dont get me wrong, Rygar on SMS is awesome, but it doesnt provide the same kind of pumping action that Contra does.

AK:HTW is a puzzle game? Are you sure you've played it? Sure, the settings are different, but the comparison seems apropos. Both have talky town exploration and a little bit of RPG thrown in between some outside side-scrolling action sequences. Some bits of Olympus remind me of Golvellius, too, especially the cavernous stuff. It's not Greek, though, but that's merely a superficial flourish, right?

If you think the Greek aspect of the argument is null and void, Look at the two games. AK:HTW you wander around a house dialing on phones and talking to people and picking which lady the arrow points at, and its overall not the same KIND of game. Wonderboy III is a better comparison really. But I think Battle of Olympus still wins out. That game has awesome music, awesome atmosphere, great gameplay, its got it all!

AK:HTW is probably my least favorite AK game ever.

It may be pedestrian by comparison, but I still find great similarity between the style and structure of both The Castle and Legacy of the Wizard. Both take place in block built, labyrinthine castles where you're backtracking and going back from screen to screen. The Castle is admittedly more puzzle-y and Legacy of the Wizard is more action-y, but whatever. Happy to provide the belly laugh.

Saying oh it has block built castles you walk around in is a moot point on game systems based off tiles and sprites. Its a "no shit" kind of statement. The similarity ends with the tiles and the stumpy sprites. Hell, Zillion is more comparable to Legacy of the Wizard than Castle is. :)

Admittedly, I was reaching there, but side-perspective parts of Blaster Master do remind me of Zillion II, and yes, superficially they are similar. Hey, you were discounting Alex Kidd: High-Tech World because it didn't fit the superficial Greek coating of Battle of Olympus, so which double standard is it?

Double standards? There are no double standards, youre grasping at straws here. Ninjas and high-tech aside, AK:HTW is nothing like battle of olympus. You should play that game sometime.

You cant explore with your spacecar in triformation, and you certainly dont have the same amount of exploration/looking around involved at all. triformation completely lacks the overhead action scenes all together, making the comparison fall short very rapidly. Its also very straightforward. saying "oh they got action and space cars and look the same" is just like your Legacy of the Wizard vs. Castle argument. (Plus castle was on NES too.)

You said there really aren't any games like Zelda 1 or 2 on the SMS. There definitely are. It doesn't boil down to opinion at all. If you need more Zelda clones there is Ys and Golvellius. Two great games. The SMS certainly didn't lag when it came to action-RPGs.

I was stating based off of YOUR examples. Which are preference at best. Why you didnt name Golvellius and Ys in the first place and picked two putzy games instead is a mystery to me.

Breetai

12-08-2009, 04:40 AM

Also, although all joypads are a stupid Japanese invention, having the controls the wrong way around, the SMS controllers are easier to use and far more responsive.YOU are a stupid Japanese invention!

Thing about the NES is US people got conned into buying into it, bit like a communist regime from Nintendo, if shops stocked other systems, Nintendo would remove the NES...like take it or leave it (source: Game Over the book). Oh well, it's nice to NOT have a choice, isn't it?Both systems were readily available in Japan. Everyone had a choice. The Famicom (with some help from the PC Engine) DESTROYED everything that Sega put out up until the Saturn. People had free choice and they chose the system with the best selection of easy-to-find good games. Your entire argument about people being "conned" into buying doesn't hold water anywhere except in the US (if it even really does there).

I'm from Canada and it seems to be that the Master System was more popular there than in America. Large stores DID stock Master System games and I could rent Master System games (and consoles) from the video rental shops in my town, so we all had, and used, the opportunity to try tons of SMS games. I'd say the NES to SMS ratio for my elementary school was 1:4 or 1:5. We all knew that the SMS had better graphics and agreed that it looked "wicked" compared to the NES, but even the kids who had SMS systems wished they'd had an NES. Why? The games. We all had free choice of systems and ample opportunity to try tons of games for both, but the NES was an easy choice because there were way more quality games available. As has been said, for every Phantasy Star there were FIVE Dragon Warrior/Final Fantasy games. For every Wonderboy or Alex Kidd, there were the Mario games (Mario 3 is easily one of the best platformers ever made, while one of the Wonderboy or Alex Kidd games comes close). For every Zillion and Double Dragon there was such a larger selection of beat 'em ups and run 'n guns to choose from (nothing on the SMS game close to Contra... NOTHING).

We ALL thought that the SMS was awesome, don't get me wrong. The NES kids did want an SMS... just not as much as the SMS kids wanted an NES. I was introduced to the Ys and Phantasy Star series' because of the SMS (R-Type, Golden Axe, Space Harrier, Outrun, Ghosts 'n Goblins, etc. I'd already seen in arcades before seeing them on the SMS), so it's definitely got a place in my gaming heart. The huge selection of fun games available on the NES compared to the SMS was the deal breaker.

vivaeljason

12-08-2009, 07:03 AM

This was posted on AA once, name 100 good NES
games...no-one could.

What annoys me about this little challenge is that "good" is of course subjective. Are we going by contemporary reviews? Nostalgia? Universally acknowledge acclaim? Each person who tries' tastes?

I'm sure that if sat and typed it out, I could get a list of 100 "good" NES games, although I'm sure a good 70% of the list would be ripped apart because the Sega Master System had a better port/a similar game/better stuff in general.

Zap!

12-08-2009, 07:09 AM

Wow, what did I start by reviving this topic? :(

Arkhan

12-08-2009, 07:18 AM

What annoys me about this little challenge is that "good" is of course subjective. Are we going by contemporary reviews? Nostalgia? Universally acknowledge acclaim? Each person who tries' tastes?

I'm sure that if sat and typed it out, I could get a list of 100 "good" NES games, although I'm sure a good 70% of the list would be ripped apart because the Sega Master System had a better port/a similar game/better stuff in general.

QFT.

You wouldnt believe how many people playerhate on faxanadu

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Dire 51

12-08-2009, 09:07 AM

Thing about the NES is US people got conned into buying into it, bit like a communist regime from Nintendo, if shops stocked other systems, Nintendo would remove the NES...like take it or leave it (source: Game Over the book). Oh well, it's nice to NOT have a choice, isn't it?
Definitely not the case where I lived. SMS and Atari (both 2600 and 7800) games were in ample supply in all of the of the major toy stores and department stores. Any given day in '87-'89, you could walk into any Toys 'R Us, Kay-Bee, JC Penney, Sears, Montgomery Ward, etc. in the area and see that. In '89, the game sections got even more crowded when those same stores started stocking the Genesis and TG16.

I didn't live in some major metropolitan area like NYC or L.A. either, I lived in a small town in Southeastern Connecticut. I also moved to Central Florida late that year and saw the exact same thing down there. By '93, all of the Atari stuff was gone or relegated to bargain bins and the SMS (and TG16) was being clearanced out like crazy, but that's because virtually no one was buying them anymore and they had to make room for more Genesis and SNES games.

Yeah, I knew as usual obviously Nintendo overexaggerated. But think about this: Who is more right, a book (Game Over), which is acknowledged by people and staff from Japan and US Nintendo, or you? It is well known, those bullying tactics were enforced by Nintendo in the USA.
They may have tried it, but it obviously didn't work. To yank the NES from the stores - especially stores as big as those - because of competition being sold in the same place would have been comparable to shooting themselves in the foot.

And in this case (and yes, I know your comment wasn't directed at me originally), I'm right, the book isn't. I know what I saw, I know what I bought, and I never once saw any retail store that carried videogames during that time with just SMS or Atari games because Nintendo pulled the NES due to being angry that they carried the competition. Game Over may be right that Nintendo tried these bullying tactics, but if it claims these tactics worked, they're sadly mistaken.

The only place I can think of where that may have worked might have been the tiny little independent shops. Maybe. I didn't frequent any at the time, so I can't be certain.

What I didn't see during this time were rental stores that carried SMS games. They carried Nintendo only. Why seems obvious: they were catering to the majority to make money, not to mention the everpresent shelf space issue. They certainly wouldn't stock SMS games any more than they'd stock Betamax videotapes, and in that regard I don't blame them. I didn't see any other types of games being rented anywhere until the Genesis hit big.

One last thing: I love the SMS, and have since the first time I played it in '87. I also love the NES, which I played for the first time the same year. Each system has great games, and which you like best comes down to personal preference, of course. But for my money, I'll take the NES. There are more of the types of games I like to play on the NES than the SMS. But the SMS does have some truly awesome games that I proudly display as part of my collection, and I'll gladly keep playing them as long as I'm able. In fact, I think I'll go play some of them right now.

blue lander

12-08-2009, 09:29 AM

It's a little hypocritical to rag on the NES's control pad when the SMS controller doesn't even have a pause button.

And maybe I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that Nintendo never really cared about the European market and barely made any efforts to sell their console over there. Had they put as much effort into that region as Sega, who knows what the results would have been.

Ricochet

12-08-2009, 10:45 AM

I had Sega as a kid. I loved it, and still do, it's still my favorite system, I still PLAY it, and if given a desert-island choice I'd take it over the NES.

That being said, the major Nintendo franchises defined the genres that ALL of the great 8/16-bit title based themselves upon. Any great Sega title can be traced back to something that originated on Nintendo. Ignorning this fact makes anyone's argument look asinine.

The point was never about who was "better". Nintendo was always the standard. However, the pleasure of owning a Sega was experiencing the high-quality games that none of your friends knew existed. It's that psychological quirk that makes rooting for the underdog somehow much more satisfying.

Can you imagine being the only kid on your block who knew about fucking Ys?

Sega took the new gaming genres and did a quality job inventing them in their own quirky way, sometimes improving on the formula; games that very easily stand on their own. My sentiment towards Golvellius: Valley of Doom is as precious as any of yours' toward Zelda - I never even knew the latter existed, and playing the original Zeldas now does nothing to convince me that I missed out.

And for fuck's sake, nobody cared about the pause button. I'm still wondering why Playstation controllers have a "Select" and "Start" in addition to their six other buttons. Console gaming is supposed to champion simplicity. (I remember thinking the three buttons on the Genesis pad a bit complicated!!)

Breetai

12-08-2009, 10:47 AM

Wow, what did I start by reviving this topic? :(A fun debate!

tomaitheous

12-08-2009, 11:12 AM

Grolt, you should just quite with the comparisons while you're a head (actually, you're not a head. But better than losing more face over this).

And Tom, anyone who thinks gamepads sucks - has no business in a thread like this ;) Really now. Unless I've mistaken your comment :)

Here's an idea, instead of trying to compare SMS games directly with NES games - how about just picking out your favorite gems in the SMS library? Forcing games into categories just for the sake of direct comparison is lame.

I haven't played through Golvellius but I've seen a few videos and have read about it and it looks awesome. And so does Golden Axe warrior. Regardless if it's a Zelda clone, as long as it's a good Zelda clone. But there was something about it that kept me from playing it. It didn't have random dungeon layouts or something like that, right? I can't seem to remember what it was.

On a side note, Crystalis is kind of a Zelda type clone - except WAY better. And I loved Zelda 1 *and* Zelda 2. I also suspect a lot of SMS games scrolled horizontally slower because of the small tilemap restrictions (barely wider than the screen). I'm sure EU coders found some optimized tilemap routines around this though (like constant 8pixel segments in movement for fast scrolling parts, etc).

Also, it'd probably wouldn't be much of a problem to list 100 "good" games on the NES (just the N/A released games). I think I would have a hard time doing that for SMS though. As it is, I don't care for most of the Euro developed games (regardless of the system). They always come off as generic/cheesy/soulless platformers and such. Computer or console. I say most, because there are some exceptions. RARE is one of them (as some one pointed out to me).

Also, if you got video links of your favorite SMS games - post 'em :D I'll start - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmMCmZkXrMQ

blue lander

12-08-2009, 11:26 AM

And for fuck's sake, nobody cared about the pause button. I'm still wondering why Playstation controllers have a "Select" and "Start" in addition to their six other buttons. Console gaming is supposed to champion simplicity. (I remember thinking the three buttons on the Genesis pad a bit complicated!!)

I think it's safe to say that virtually everybody cares about having a pause button, which is why every console has one. If you're a kid playing a game and your mom starts yelling at you to pick up the phone or something, it's a big deal being able to pause the game from your controller rather than having to get up and walk to your SMS.

And I can't be the only one who found it annoying to have to get up and walk to the console every time you want to change your character in Psycho Fox. The lack of a pause button on the controller is a major oversight.

PresidentLeever

12-08-2009, 11:57 AM

Grolt, you should just quite with the comparisons while you're a head (actually, you're not a head.)

You're the head here.

AB Positive

12-08-2009, 12:22 PM

Why all the hate? Love 'em both - NES for it's mainstream franchise love and SMS for it's high quality quirkyness?

I love Final Fantasy AND Phantasy Star. So screw all of you :D

tom

12-08-2009, 12:49 PM

And Tom, anyone who thinks gamepads sucks - has no business in a thread like this

Of course I have
http://www.videogamecollectors.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=197873&g2_serialNumber=2

blue lander

12-08-2009, 03:30 PM

I like the SMS joypads, but I can't stand that joystick. The NES Advantage wasn't perfect, but I'd take it over that SMS joystick any day.

Ruudos

12-08-2009, 03:32 PM

I consider these 100 good NES games. And these only include games I've played myself.

Adventures in the Magic Kingdom
Adventures of Lolo
Adventures of Lolo 2
Adventures of Lolo 3
The Adventures of Rad Gravity
Asterix
Bad Dudes
Batman
Batman: Return of the Joker
The Battle of Olympus
Battletoads
Bionic Commando
Bomberman II
Boulder Dash
Bubble Bobble
Bucky O'Hare
Burai Fighter
Captain Skyhawk
Castlevania
Castlevania II
Castlevania III
Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers
Contra
Crystalis
Darkwing Duck
Double Dragon
Double Dragon II
Double Dragon III
Dr Mario
Dragon Fighter
Duck Tales
Duck Tales 2
Faxanadu
Felix the Cat
Fester's Quest
The Flintstones: The Rescue of Dino & Hoppy
Gargoyle's Quest II
Gremlins 2
Gun.Smoke
Hammerin' Harry
IronSword: Wizards & Warriors II
Isolated Warrior
Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu
The Jungle Book
Kabuki Quantum Fighter
Kickle Cubicle
Kid Icarus
Kirby's Adventure
Kung Fu
The Legend of Zelda
The Legend of Prince Valiant
Legendary Wings
Little Nemo: The Dream Master
Low G Man
Mega Man
Mega Man 2
Mega Man 3
Mega Man 4
Mega Man 5
Mega Man 6
Metroid
Micro Machines
Mighty Final Fight
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
New Ghostbusters II
Nigel Mansell's World Championship
Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden II
Nintendo World Cup
North & South
Popeye
Power Blade
Prince of Persia
Rad Racer
Rockin' Kats
Rush'n Attack
Rygar
Section Z
Shadow of the Ninja
Shadowgate
Snake Rattle N Roll
Solstice
StarTropics
Super C
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 2
Super Mario Bros 3
Super Off-Road
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III
Tiny Toon Adventures
Tiny Toon Adventures 2
Track & Field II
Trojan
Wario's Woods
Wizards & Warriors
Ufouria: The Saga
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II

Ed Oscuro

12-08-2009, 03:34 PM

There are plenty, but if you cannot be bothered to find out about it
What a surprise, you don't even know what the problem is. Yes, there are good SMS games; I have some of them, and I have a number of other ones. That's not what's being talked about. What's at issue is your throwing about laughable numbers of good NES and SMS and arbitrary ratios based on something you saw on a Forum once, which makes your comments in this thread somewhat less useful than dried dog shit in the crevices of a SMS control square. This place is for discussion, not public masturbation; it doesn't seem like asking much for some specifics instead of this garbage. "Put up or shut up," as some folks say.

Of course I have
http://www.videogamecollectors.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=197873&g2_serialNumber=2
That thing is even uglier than I remembered, and a prime example of wasted packaging as well. Thank god for Genesis pads and ASCII / Micomsoft pads and joysticks, like the XE-1 ST2 (http://www.shopncsx.com/xe-1st2joystick.aspx) which works across a wide range of my systems. Could use a better stick (as no doubt that thing could) but at least it's a real ball top that gives some flexibility in grips.

blue lander

12-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Maybe we should all pitch in and ship a NES with 100 good games to whatever smug superior European country Tom lives in so he can educate himself and join in on the fun ;)

NerdXCrewWill

12-08-2009, 03:46 PM

I'm not addressing a lot of the points brought up in this thread because both sides are being really silly here. Personally, I think the best of the NES destroys the best of the SMS, but that the SMS has a better good-to-bad game ratio. The good-to-bad game ratio is a very important factor in determining which of two consoles is better, but even then, you still have to take into account classic games. How much you should weigh either factor is highly debatable and always comes into dispute whenever two highly informed sides debate in-depth the worth of something. I've seen these kind of disagreements when talking about all sorts of things, be it a director's career, an author's bibliography, etc. Personally, I think the Sega CD is the best console system of all time, due to it's outrageously good good-to-bad game ratio AND it's high number of classic games.

One thing, though, I would like to specifically address is the claim that the NES does not have 100 good games. Here's a list of a hundred games that I was easily able to make, with a little help from a list of all NES/Famicom games to jog my memory. I'm not even including games I'm not familiar with, games that I recognize as good but do not like due to taste, games that I love whose objective quality are often lambasted (such as Friday the 13th or Jaws), or games I plain overlooked.

AD&D: Pool of Radiance
Arkanoid
Astyanax
Bard’s Tale
Bard’s Tale 2
Baseball Stars
Baseball Stars II
Batman
Batman: Return of the Joker
Battle of Olympus
Battle Toads
Blades of Steel
Blaster Master
Bomberman
Bomberman II
Bonk’s Adventure
Bubble Bobble
Bubble Bobble 2
Bucky O’Hare
Bugs Bunny Birthday Blowout
Burgertime
Captain Tsubasa
Captain Tsubasa II
Casino Kid
Casino Kid II
Castelian
Castlevania
Castlevania II
Castlevania III
Chip n Dale: Rescue Rangers
Chip n Dale: Rescue Rangers II
City Connection
Contra
Crystalis
Darkwing Duck
Defender II
Deja Vu
Destiny of an Emperor
Dig Dug
Dig Dug 2
Don Doko Don
Don Doko Don 2
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Donkey Kong 3
Dragon Ball: Daimao Fukkatsu
Dragon Ball 3: Gokuden
Dragon Ball Z: Kyoushuu! Saiyajin
Dragon Ball Z II: Gekigami Freeza
Dragon Ball Z III: Ressen Jinzou Ningen
Dragon Ball Z Gaiden: Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku
Dragon Spirit
Dragon Warrior III
Dragon Warrior IV
Ducktales
Ducktales 2
Excite Bike
Family Feud
Fantasy Zone
Fantasy Zone II
Faxanadu
Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy III
Final Lap
Fire ‘n Ice
Galaxian
Galaga
Gauntlet
Gauntlet 2
Gemfire
Genghis Kahn
Glory of Heracles
Glory of Heracles 2
Goonies 2
Gradius
Gradius 2
Guardian Legend
Gun Nac
Gun.Smoke
Gyromite
Gyruss
Hydlide 3
Ice Hockey
Ivan Stewart’s Super Off Road
Jackal
Journey to Silius
Joust
Kid Icarus
King’s Quest V
Klax
L’Empereur
Legacy of the Wizard
Legend of Zelda
Lemmings
Lifeforce
Lode Runner
Lunar Pool
Magic Jewelry 2
Magic of Scheherazade

Keep in mind, I excluded probably at least a dozen, if not more, titles and still only made it to the beginning of the letter M.

Now, I'm not saying that all of those games are great or that they're the best versions available (some may be inferior ports). I do think, however, that none of those games are bad at all. They're more fun than the average game, making them good. The weakest games on that list are probably Gyromite (which is a blast with two players) and the Koei strategy games. That's not to bad, especially considering I only got halfway through the alphabet.

I do realize that the NES had a ton of games produced for it. Admittedly, the good-to-bad game ratio isn't the best. It's up to you to determine if that ratio means that the system is inferior to the SMS. To say that the NES is bad, however, is plain misguided, as it is home to 100+ good games, and arguably a dozen or more great games.

EDIT: Looks like I was beaten to the punch!

Arkhan

12-08-2009, 04:04 PM

Sega Master System Good Games
:band:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vDK2Uxi9QM Ultima IV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfXppq-0IRE PStar. This commercial fucking owns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nfuKN0dVh4 Blaster Ma...I mean Zillion 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8o5NUS-Tgg Metr....Zillion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7i363F54c Quartet
and Aztec Adventure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8VKTBO2iGQ

NES Good games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkbd63TMvKY BATTLE OF OLYMPUS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARO7XxHpMK0 DQ3. You dont even need to see gameplay. That awesome intro says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8P5KhepWIE Faxanadu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4D2kiekQOI Kid Icarus. To hate this game is to hate life itself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxnJ7mBrEAk Little Nemo. ROFL

PresidentLeever

12-08-2009, 04:33 PM

Since I've been making top 100 lists for both systems lately, I might as well put what I have to use so here are my top 40s for each:

NES:
1. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. Mega Man 2
3. Super Mario Bros.
4. Super Mario Bros 2.
5. Mega Man 3
6. Gun. Nac
7. Crystalis
8. Kirby�s Adventure
9. Super Mario Bros 2 (J)
10. Bubble Bobble
11. Duck Tales 2
12. TMNT III: Manhattan Project
13. Adventures of Lolo 2
14. River City Ransom
15. Star Tropics
16. Castlevania III
17. RC. Pro-Am II
18. Guardian Legend
19. Mega Man 5
20. The Magic of Scheherazade
21. Adventures of Lolo 3
22. Metal Storm
23. Mega Man
24. Duck Tales
25. Crisis Force
26. Solomon�s Key
27. Super Contra
28. Micro Machines
29. Adventures of Lolo
30. Mega Man 4
31. Ufouria
32. Punch-Out!!
33. Contra
34. Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti
35. Tetris
36. Willow
37. Life Force
38. Bucky O�Hare
39. Jackal
40. Nintendo World Cup

SMS:
1. Wonder Boy III: The Dragon�s Trap
2. Land of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse
3. Power Strike II
4. Bubble Bobble
5. Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa Opa
6. Alex Kidd in Miracle World
7. Kenseiden
8. R-Type
9. Sonic the Hedgehog
10. Golvellius: Valley of Doom
11. Phantasy Star
12. Shinobi
13. Zillion
14. Ninja Gaiden
15. Solomon�s Key
16. Road Rash
17. Jurassic Park
18. Castle of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse
19. Wonder Boy
20. Golden Axe Warrior
21. Power Strike
22. Fantasy Zone
23. The Ninja
24. Wimbledon II
25. Lucky Dime Caper
26. Space Harrier 3D
27. Asterix
28. Laser Ghost
29. Chuck Rock II
30. Wonder Boy in Monster Land
31. Outrun 3D
32. Micro Machines
33. Alex Kidd in Shinobi World
34. Renegade
35. Master of Darkness
36. Secret Commando/Rambo: First Blood Part II
37. Choplifter
38. Montezuma�s Revenge
39. Pit Pot
40. Ultima IV

Now I love both systems, but I have to admit that after the 50s it doesn't look too good for the SMS while the NES just keeps delivering up until the 100s (all territories considered).

Raedon

12-08-2009, 04:42 PM

I still feel Phantasy Star to be the best RPG on the 8 bit consoles. I love the NES for Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Punch Out!, Castlevania, and a few others that are rather small in selection next to the 600+ games available. I love the SMS for Phantasy Star.

grolt

12-08-2009, 05:01 PM

You're the head here.

Oh quite it, would you? :D

tom

12-08-2009, 05:06 PM

Maybe we should all pitch in and ship a NES with 100 good games to whatever smug superior European country Tom lives in so he can educate himself and join in on the fun ;)

You gotta find the 100 good games on NES first, now there's a hard task for you.

Zap!

12-08-2009, 05:10 PM

Since I've been making top 100 lists for both systems lately, I might as well put what I have to use so here are my top 40s for each:

NES:
1. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. Mega Man 2
3. Super Mario Bros.
4. Super Mario Bros 2.
5. Mega Man 3
6. Gun. Nac
7. Crystalis
8. Kirby’s Adventure
9. Super Mario Bros 2 (J)
10. Bubble Bobble
11. Duck Tales 2
12. TMNT III: Manhattan Project
13. Adventures of Lolo 2
14. River City Ransom
15. Star Tropics
16. Castlevania III
17. RC. Pro-Am II
18. Guardian Legend
19. Mega Man 5
20. The Magic of Scheherazade
21. Adventures of Lolo 3
22. Metal Storm
23. Mega Man
24. Duck Tales
25. Crisis Force
26. Solomon’s Key
27. Super Contra
28. Micro Machines
29. Adventures of Lolo
30. Mega Man 4
31. Ufouria
32. Punch-Out!!
33. Contra
34. Splatterhouse: Wanpaku Graffiti
35. Tetris
36. Willow
37. Life Force
38. Bucky O’Hare
39. Jackal
40. Nintendo World Cup

SMS:
1. Wonder Boy III: The Dragon’s Trap
2. Land of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse
3. Power Strike II
4. Bubble Bobble
5. Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa Opa
6. Alex Kidd in Miracle World
7. Kenseiden
8. R-Type
9. Sonic the Hedgehog
10. Golvellius: Valley of Doom
11. Phantasy Star
12. Shinobi
13. Zillion
14. Ninja Gaiden
15. Solomon’s Key
16. Road Rash
17. Jurassic Park
18. Castle of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse
19. Wonder Boy
20. Golden Axe Warrior
21. Power Strike
22. Fantasy Zone
23. The Ninja
24. Wimbledon II
25. Lucky Dime Caper
26. Space Harrier 3D
27. Asterix
28. Laser Ghost
29. Chuck Rock II
30. Wonder Boy in Monster Land
31. Outrun 3D
32. Micro Machines
33. Alex Kidd in Shinobi World
34. Renegade
35. Master of Darkness
36. Secret Commando/Rambo: First Blood Part II
37. Choplifter
38. Montezuma’s Revenge
39. Pit Pot
40. Ultima IV

Now I love both systems, but I have to admit that after the 50s it doesn't look too good for the SMS while the NES just keeps delivering up until the 100s (all territories considered).

I guess you don't like RPG's because I have never seen Phantasy Star rate as low as "9" on any SMS list. No Zelda in a Nintendo top 40 list? Punch-Out!! at 32? Worst list I ever seen. :)

pseudonym

12-08-2009, 05:13 PM

You gotta find the 100 good games on NES first, now there's a hard task for you.

Haha, is this what this thread has come down to? List 100 games on either system that are 'good'? Seriously, who cares? I thought this thread was going pretty good until the last page or so...

tom

12-08-2009, 05:13 PM

... dried dog shit in the crevices... not public masturbation; it doesn't seem like asking much for some specifics instead of this garbage.

Now now, no need to be vulgar, even if you have trouble finding the right vocabulary.

tom

12-08-2009, 05:15 PM

Haha, is this what this thread has come down to? List 100 games on either system that are 'good'? Seriously, who cares? I thought this thread was going pretty good until the last page or so...

That's NES fanboys for you :-)

PresidentLeever

12-08-2009, 05:42 PM

I guess you don't like RPG's because I have never seen Phantasy Star rate as low as "9" on any SMS list. No Zelda in a Nintendo top 40 list? Punch-Out!! at 32? Worst list I ever seen. :)

I thought this wasn't gamefaqs?

There's a huge difference between RPGs from different generations and regions. I don't care much for the 8-bit ones because I don't like crude interfaces, grinding or crappy storylines. I'll admit to not having played some of the more impressive looking NES imports though like Lagrange Point or Radia Senki.

Punchout!! takes trial & error to a new dimension where only people who grew up with it are willing to follow, and there are several games for the NES that do the Zelda thing better than Zelda itself. It does have a solid place in my list though :)

vivaeljason

12-08-2009, 05:59 PM

You gotta find the 100 good games on NES first, now there's a hard task for you.

Ruudos made a list up above, which is a good thing because there was no way in hell I was going to sit around and do it.

Zap!

12-08-2009, 06:11 PM

I thought this wasn't gamefaqs?

I don't get that, as I've never visited their forums.

There's a huge difference between RPGs from different generations and regions. I don't care much for the 8-bit ones because I don't like crude interfaces, grinding or crappy storylines. I'll admit to not having played some of the more impressive looking NES imports though like Lagrange Point or Radia Senki.

Punchout!! takes trial & error to a new dimension where only people who grew up with it are willing to follow, and there are several games for the NES that do the Zelda thing better than Zelda itself. It does have a solid place in my list though :)

It's all good, I just disagree with you but you have a right to an opion. I like classic RPG's and grew up with Punch-Out!!, so I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I didn't.

There may be Zelda clones better than Zelda itself, but I just can't see how it doesn't make the top 40.

tomaitheous

12-08-2009, 06:21 PM

You're the head here.

What does that even mean? Are you having problems with your English?

Of course I have
<some ugly pic>

Thanks for proving my point ;)

Ed Oscuro: Tom's just trolling on the thread at this point. He seems to have degraded/content at poking a stick at so called "fanboys" with whatever snark remarks he can. He's on my ignore list for this thread until he can contribute something that's constructive/relative to the discussion, or at least back up his baseless claims. Talk about spewing random crap..

NerdXCrewWill: Why would the ratio of good to bad games matter at all? Wouldn't the total number of good, great, and awesome games matter more? I mean, who buys junks games to play them? I don't.

A Black Falcon

12-08-2009, 07:11 PM

On the one hand, in this case the answer is easy... I've never played SMS games outside of an emulator, and have never actually known anyone who owned one; everyone I knew back then had a NES (I didn't myself, we only had PC and Game Boy). I do see SMSes in stores used once in a while though, so obviously a few people around here had one, but not many, as was normal in the US. And there's a clear good reason for that, the NES has far, far more good games.

On the other hand, I don't know if I'd say it as an absolute "NES is better than SMS" -- I don't necesarially always like the system with more games better... take the PSX, I much prefer the N64 (the N64 is my favorite console ever in fact), or the PS2, I like both Gamecube and Dreamcast more... I just don't like Sony very much. Lots of good games on their systems, sure, but I just don't like the systems themselves much. Because of that, sure, even though I completely disagree, I guess I could see someone liking the SMS more than the NES... but if you go to direct game library comparisons, the NES definitely crushes the SMS.

Like, with the N64 vs. the PSX, at least the N64 has a MUCH higher ratio of good games to bad and does some genres much better than PSX. (It's also more powerful, and has a way better controller too, in my opinion). Does the SMS have anything like that, in terms of genres or ratio of good to bad? I'm not so sure... it does have somewhat better graphics of course, and more Sega games (remember, there were NES versions of Shinobi, After Burner, Alien Syndrome (better than the SMS version), and Fantasy Zone, and a Famicom version of Space Harrier as well; other than Alien Syndrome most were better on SMS, but still, they are on NES too), but aside from that...

As for the later SMS titles, from the 1991-1995 period, most of which were Europe and/or Brazil exclusives, many (though not all) did come to the US on the Game Gear, such as the SMS Sonic titles, so we didn't miss out on all of those, only a few true exclusives like SMS Power Strike 2 (on that note, why didn't the GG Aleste games come out in the US... :(). The SMS versions had a higher resolution so you could see farther, but the GG ones had more colors on screen. And other titles like After Burner, Space Harrier, Outrun, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, etc, are pretty much irrelevant to anyone with a Genesis...

tom

12-08-2009, 07:14 PM

tom

12-08-2009, 07:23 PM

Ed Oscuro: Tom's just trolling on the thread at this point. He seems to have degraded/content at poking a stick at so called "fanboys" with whatever snark remarks he can. He's on my ignore list for this thread until he can contribute something that's constructive/relative to the discussion, or at least back up his baseless claims. Talk about spewing random crap..

.

So there's a guy here talking about DOG SHIT and MASTURBATING (obviously you find that sort of language more intelligent and not at all degraded and far more constructive...yeah that figures...), and you're complaining about my 'snark remarks'? (there weren't even any, liar). Well, you won't even read this, as mentioned in my above post.....

timewarpgamer

12-08-2009, 07:51 PM

chrisbid

12-08-2009, 08:25 PM

i like the music for outrun and phantasy star... but there are better versions available than what you get from a stock sms.

A Black Falcon

12-08-2009, 08:39 PM

One of these days, I'd like to do start a console war feature: NES vs. SMS. Compare the same game on both systems. Repeat for as many games as possible and see what wins. There are relatively few cross-platform titles that qualify. So far, all I can think of:

Adventure Island
Bubble Bobble
California Games
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Klax
Ninja Gaiden
Paperboy
Rampage
Renegade
Shinobi
Smash TV

But surely there must be more...What did I miss? This comparison makes the most sense to me. Comparing by games in general isn't really fair, since the NES library dwarfs that of the SMS.

I grew up with the NES, like most Americans my age, and I only discovered the SMS much later, when I started my retro gaming website. For what it's worth, here are my two lists for the greatest games for each system:

http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/nes.html
http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/sms.html

Any recommendations are welcome, especially for the SMS. One more quick question--pardon the long post--can anyone identify a SMS game with great music? I feel like that's the area where the SMS hardware has let me down the most so far, compared to that of the NES. Or maybe I just haven't listened to the right SMS games...

One thing is wrong on that list of yours there -- Ghosts 'n Goblins wasn't on SMS. Ghouls 'n Ghosts was, but that wasn't on SMS (corrected this in edit). It's listed in the bottom category in the below list.

Also, the Ninja Gaiden games are completely different, not the same titles at all. The only NES Ninja Gaiden game actually ported to another system was Ninja Gaiden III, which also came out on the Lynx.

I just listed some in my post... there are also these Sega titles that third parties ported to the NES and/or Famicom. You mention Shinobi, but there were several more.

Shinobi
After Burner
Space Harrier (Japan only release on NES)
Fantasy Zone
Alien Syndrome (better on NES, I believe)

... I decided to try to make a more comprehensive list, too, of titles not mentioned above. Anything else missing?

Other games on both systems
--
Ghostbusters (better on SMS)
California Games II (EU only on SMS)
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (SMS, EU only) / Puyo Puyo (Famicom and FDS, Japan only)
Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy (EU only on SMS)
Ys: The Vanished Omens (JP only on NES)
Dizzy the Adventurer (NES Aladdin Deck Enhancer title) / Dizzy's Excellent Adventures "Dizzy: Prince of the Yolkfolk" portion (EU only on SMS)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (EU only on SMS)
Super Off-Road (EU only on SMS)
Star Wars (EU/Brazil only on SMS)
Spy vs. Spy (EU only on SMS)
Rainbow Islands (EU only on SMS)
The New Zealand Story (EU only on SMS, called "Kiwi Kraze" on the US NES)
Ms. Pac-Man (US only on SMS)
Pac-Mania (US only on NES, EU only on SMS)
Operation Wolf (EU only on SMS)
Bart vs. the Space Mutants (EU only on SMS)
Bart vs. the World (EU only on SMS)
Home Alone (EU only on SMS)
AD&D: Heroes of the Lance (EU only on SMS)
The Lion King (the NES and SMS versions were both EU only; very similar games, but they may not be identical)
The Jungle Book (EU only on SMS; as with the above game, I think the two versions aren't quite the same)
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (NES Ubisoft version vs. SMS version (EU only release); there was also another completely different game of the same title on the NES from Taito, but the Ubisoft one is clearly a (bad) version of the original computer game that the SMS title is also based on)

Also maybe worth checking out (not the same game, but kind of similar
--
Action Fighter (SMS) / Spy Hunter (NES) or perhaps even more appropriately Super Spy Hunter (NES)
Power Strike/Aleste (SMS) / Zanac (NES)
Choplifter (the Japan-only NES version is a port of the Apple II original, like all other non-SMS versions; the SMS version is a port of the Sega arcade game and is much better and more expansive.)
Mercs (Commando 2) (SMS EU only) / Commando (NES)
King's Quest I (SMS, US only?) / King's Quest V (NES US only)
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts (SMS, EU only) / Ghosts 'n' Goblins (NES)

Dire 51

12-08-2009, 08:48 PM

I grew up with the NES, like most Americans my age, and I only discovered the SMS much later, when I started my retro gaming website. For what it's worth, here are my two lists for the greatest games for each system:

http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/nes.html
http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/sms.html

Any recommendations are welcome, especially for the SMS.
I'd add Kenseiden to your list. Some people have issues with the controls, but I've never had an issue with them. Another to consider might be the European version of Captain Silver, otherwise known as the complete version. The US version was horribly, horribly castrated by the removal of enemy characters, bosses and entire levels.

One more quick question--pardon the long post--can anyone identify a SMS game with great music? I feel like that's the area where the SMS hardware has let me down the most so far, compared to that of the NES. Or maybe I just haven't listened to the right SMS games...
This all comes down to PSG vs. FM sound, I say. To me, the FM music sounds far superior.

Here's a quick comparison:

Phantasy Star - FM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOKHsl632vQ)
Phantasy Star - PSG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gujjNjW2qVc)

***

@ A Black Falcon: Ghouls 'N Ghosts never got ported to the NES.