Master System better than the Nes & 7800

[A Black Falcon]

@ A Black Falcon: Ghouls 'N Ghosts never got ported to the NES.

You're right of course. I'll fix that by moving it to the last category, NES Ghosts & Goblins / SMS Ghouls & Ghosts.

[Ed Oscuro]

On topic, I would kick Ashura out and probably put Lord of the Sword in there. Possibly the Smurfs game as well, though I haven't tried that one. Honestly, some of this stuff is a little hard to get excited about. The Ninja is better than the SG-1000 Sega Ninja, but neither is very exciting compared to the original arcade PCB I have sitting right here. I'm actually a bit surprised this many arcade ports are showing up in peoples' top 10 lists. The Genesis, with its reputation for good arcade ports, wasn't reliant on those for its popularity within a few years of its introduction.

Did I see Alex Kidd in Shinobi World? That one ought to be in there somewhere.


So there's a guy here talking about DOG SHIT and MASTURBATING
I thought sex and games were your hobbies, what are you complaining about? Would sex and dogs be better?

Sorry Tom, that's about all the time you've got left. Ignore a go-go!

[j_factor]

Well, they definitely aren't mediocre. Dragon Warrior 1 might be pretty simplistic, but it's got multiple towns/people/dialog and some story events. DW 2-4 really expand on the series. And Final Fantasy 1 was pretty awesome (love the nes sound track to that game). Too bad we didn't get FF2 and FF3 over here. FF1 came out here as FF3 was coming out in Japan. Like DW, the series really evolved after the first title. I love the PS series ( well, PS2/PSIV/PSOnline original). I couldn't much get into PS I. I'm not a big fan of 3D dungeons and the PSG music is kinda bad too. I might try to play it again with the FM patch, since people really rave about the game and story.

Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior just about put me to sleep. Maybe I have ADD or something (:p), but I like few 8-bit RPGs overall. One that I do like is Phantasy Star, although I'm not as crazy about it as a lot of other people are. Phantasy Star sucked me in due to its setting, and to a lesser extent characters and plot. You play as a girl out to avenge her brother's death, and ends up on a much bigger journey to defeat evil, traversing three distinct planets in the process. Okay, it's nothing you can't get out of a budget sci-fi paperback, and the writing leaves much to be desired, but compared to Dragon Warrior it's absolutely amazing. Simply put, Phantasy Star is actually substantive and distinctive, whereas Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior really aren't.

Now, I did play Phantasy Star before the other two. I also played Ultima IV before those, and I feel that Ultima IV blows them out of the water. Years and years later, I played the NES version of EarthBound (via ROM), and also found that to be a better game.

[Gameguy]

I think it's safe to say that virtually everybody cares about having a pause button, which is why every console has one. If you're a kid playing a game and your mom starts yelling at you to pick up the phone or something, it's a big deal being able to pause the game from your controller rather than having to get up and walk to your SMS.

And I can't be the only one who found it annoying to have to get up and walk to the console every time you want to change your character in Psycho Fox. The lack of a pause button on the controller is a major oversight.
That and the original controllers for the SMS had the cable coming out of the side of the controller. That's what I have and it's pretty annoying, plus the direction pads suck. I tried playing Rampage but it was very hard to start climbing up a building because I kept walking left or right of it instead of up. I also played Double Dragon and had too much trouble with the controls.



Legacy of the Wizard
-Solomon's Key, The Castle

I don't get that comparison, all of those games came out on the NES too. I don't see The Castle being released on the SMS though, not according to the rarity guide anyway. It was called Castlequest here on the NES.


My first console was a Genesis, I didn't get an NES until 8 years ago or so(I'm not full of nostalgia for either the NES or SMS). I also have a SMS. It might be a regional thing, but in North America the NES had better games overall. There's about 2 games for the SMS that I want to get, Phantasy Star and Golden Axe Warrior. So far all of the other SMS games I've played are just decent at best and easily forgettable. I've heard that the SMS was more popular in Europe though so they probably had the better games for it, a lot of the good games that came out here were also available for the Genesis or Game Gear so I don't count those titles as reasons to own the system. I'm pretty much a fan of Sega, but the NES had better games than the SMS. I like the SMS better than the N64 though.

How many games from either the SMS or NES were popular enough to have sequels and spinoffs made that continue to this day? Plenty from the NES, I can't remember any from the SMS except for Shinobi. I really can't think of any more than that.

[nebrazca78]

Hahaha. That means you were an SMB fan, *not* an NES fan. SMB 2 and 3 were good (even the original, which was an awesome pack in game) - but almost everything else was a let down? Are you sure you're a gamer? Maybe you were a PC gamer and just had the SMB bug or something ;) PC gamers almost never liked console games BITD.

My first real "game system" was a Commodore 64 but after I played SMB I never went back to computers except for Wolfenstein and Doom type games. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, 8, 12 and 16 hour console gamefests are a common occurrence with me. I also just cracked the 3000 games collected mark. Number of NES games in my collection? Zero.


I always felt Alex Kidd In Miracle World was superior. "Nothing not even close"? AKIMW isn't at least close to you?

I never though AKIMW was even close to SMB. Personally I though AK: SW was much closer and is also an all time favorite.



That being said, the major Nintendo franchises defined the genres that ALL of the great 8/16-bit title based themselves upon. Any great Sega title can be traced back to something that originated on Nintendo. Ignorning this fact makes anyone's argument look asinine.

And for fuck's sake, nobody cared about the pause button. I'm still wondering why Playstation controllers have a "Select" and "Start" in addition to their six other buttons. Console gaming is supposed to champion simplicity. (I remember thinking the three buttons on the Genesis pad a bit complicated!!)

No and no. Nintendo didn't define every genre and that assertion is ridiculous to me. Even as a Sega maniac not having a pause button on the controller was a HUGE BITCH. That would have been Ok if the D-pad wasn't such a total piece of crap.



Any recommendations are welcome, especially for the SMS. One more quick question--pardon the long post--can anyone identify a SMS game with great music? I feel like that's the area where the SMS hardware has let me down the most so far, compared to that of the NES. Or maybe I just haven't listened to the right SMS games...

This will probably get flamed but I also love the SMS music so much more than NES music. Double Dragon, Alex Kidd: Shinobi World, Kenseiden, Rastan. These all have songs I loved so much I made them in to ringtones for my phone. NES music seems dull and boring.


That and the original controllers for the SMS had the cable coming out of the side of the controller.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the controllers with the side-exit cords were Canadian only.



How many games from either the SMS or NES were popular enough to have sequels and spinoffs made that continue to this day? Plenty from the NES, I can't remember any from the SMS except for Shinobi. I really can't think of any more than that.

There are plenty of terrible movies that get never ending amounts of sequels. Plenty of total crap music groups that make horrible music for too many years. It's called cashing in. Not that I think all Nintendo franchises are bad, but amount of sequels isn't exactly indicative of a good franchise. If they ever stop making Mario Kart games I will stop buying Nintendo stuff though.

[NerdXCrewWill]

NerdXCrewWill: Why would the ratio of good to bad games matter at all? Wouldn't the total number of good, great, and awesome games matter more? I mean, who buys junks games to play them? I don't.

Thank you for the reply.

Well, I am of the belief that it should be taken into account at least to some extent.

I guess you have to consider the following scenario. Two game consoles each have a library of 1000 games. One has the best game ever and 999 totally abysmal titles. The other has 999 fairly good (but not the caliber of the best game ever) games and 1 stinker. Would you feel comfortable saying that the system with 999 bad games is better than the one with 1 bad game?

Even if the best game ever is far and away in a different league of quality compared to the 999 good games, I can honestly not make the claim that the first console is superior to the second.

If you can though, that's totally acceptable. Yes, I know I'm dealing with hypothetical extremes, but I think it proves the point that it's not irrational that some people really care about the good-to-bad game ratio. I guess we should keep in mind that this variation in thinking is a huge factor in whether someone prefers the NES or the SMS.

[grolt]

How many games from either the SMS or NES were popular enough to have sequels and spinoffs made that continue to this day? Plenty from the NES, I can't remember any from the SMS except for Shinobi. I really can't think of any more than that.

Well, Shinobi was an arcade port, so even that doesn't really qualify. For games that originated on the Master System, there are only a few properties that still sort of survive:

Alex Kidd (via Superstar Tennis and the upcoming All-Star Racing)
Phantasy Star


Uh, yeah. That's what happens when your console occupies like 6% or the US market share. No properties that resonate in pop culture, despite the overwhelming quality of many of them.



Even if the best game ever is far and away in a different league of quality compared to the 999 good games, I can honestly not make the claim that the first console is superior to the second.

If you can though, that's totally acceptable. Yes, I know I'm dealing with hypothetical extremes, but I think it proves the point that it's not irrational that some people really care about the good-to-bad game ratio. I guess we should keep in mind that this variation in thinking is a huge factor in whether someone prefers the NES or the SMS.

It matters to us now as collectors, because if we are going to want to devote all our time and money to collecting a complete library of games, it would be nice to invest in a system where there's a high quotient of good games rather than one with a lot of sports titles or third party shovelware. The other thing is that the SMS has a lot of good games that hardly anyone knows about. Even if you look online, ports like Thunder Blade hardly get a single word of press, even though the game itself is quite the commendable port. There's still that level of discovery there with the SMS, whereas most of the great NES games have really been talked to death over the years. Don't get me wrong, I love the NES and have a healthy collection of its games, but I love cultivating the beautiful unknown that is the SMS.

[Graham Mitchell]

You know, one thing that hasn't come up in this debate so far is the fact that Nintendo had a big asset that lent itself to their success in a huge way: themselves.

Let's face it. We're all going to have different preferences on things, but I think it's really difficult to deny the fact that during the NES era, Nintendo employed some folks who were probably some of the greatest video game developers in the world. Gumpei Yokoi's team and Shigeru Miyamoto just made fantastic games. If SMB 3, Zelda, Metroid or Kid Icarus were on the SMS it would have boosted sales. I have a feeling that these IP's probably sold more NES's than anything else. Almost everybody who had an NES probably had at least a couple of these 4 games. You can probably add Punch-Out! to the list, but I don't feel that was as strong of a game.

[Gameguy]

Well, Shinobi was an arcade port, so even that doesn't really qualify.
I know, but I still counted it. Contra, Punch-out!! and Mario got started out as arcade games but I felt that the NES versions were different/good enough so I wouldn't rule out any series that started out as arcade ports. I'd mention Altered Beast as that had several sequels too, but the first game was ported for the Genesis first and was later ported for the SMS so that doesn't count to me.


It matters to us now as collectors, because if we are going to want to devote all our time and money to collecting a complete library of games, it would be nice to invest in a system where there's a high quotient of good games rather than one with a lot of sports titles or third party shovelware. The other thing is that the SMS has a lot of good games that hardly anyone knows about. Even if you look online, ports like Thunder Blade hardly get a single word of press, even though the game itself is quite the commendable port. There's still that level of discovery there with the SMS, whereas most of the great NES games have really been talked to death over the years. Don't get me wrong, I love the NES and have a healthy collection of its games, but I love cultivating the beautiful unknown that is the SMS.
I don't have a compulsive need to buy every crappy game just to have a complete collection, I would just get a system as long as there were enough good games on it for me to play. The only way I'd get another system that didn't have very many good games would be if I found it really cheap. I don't have anything against people who want every game made for a system, someone has to buy the extras I don't want. ;)

There might be plenty of good games I don't know about, if I come across any that are good I'll ad them to my collection. There has to be plenty of good titles for the SMS or people wouldn't like it at all, I just feel that there are more good games in total for the NES. I also know that it's hard to define what's good as everyone has different standards and likes, but it can be done as most people in general have similar standards and likes. If most people consider something to be good, it's probably good. If most people dislike something, it's probably bad.

[grolt]

I know, but I still counted it. Contra, Punch-out!! and Mario got started out as arcade games but I felt that the NES versions were different/good enough so I wouldn't rule out any series that started out as arcade ports. I'd mention Altered Beast as that had several sequels too, but the first game was ported for the Genesis first and was later ported for the SMS so that doesn't count to me.

I think you mean Golden Axe, since Altered Beast never really had any sequels proper, which is bizarre to me considering what a staple it is in gaming, regardless of whether many consider it a simple or shallow game. I love it and would love to have seen a sequel.

If we're going by your criteria, then there are a few more survivors:

Out Run
Alien Syndrome
After Burner
Ys
Space Harrier (by way of Superstar Tennis)

[Arkhan]

this thread is retarded.

SMS has Phantasy Star
NES has DQ III

SMS has Zillion 1 and 2
NES has Metroid and stuff

SMS has Cyborg Hunter
NES has something comparable im sure

the point being, both have games the other dont have, they both suck for different reasons, and arguing further is going to be like the good ol' special olympics statement

It doesnt matter if you win the special olympics. You're still retarded.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I just play both and accept the fact that there are games on both that don't exist on the other.


oh, and PC Engine is better than both.




POW, bitches.

[PresidentLeever]

I don't get that, as I've never visited their forums.



It's all good, I just disagree with you but you have a right to an opion. I like classic RPG's and grew up with Punch-Out!!, so I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I didn't.

There may be Zelda clones better than Zelda itself, but I just can't see how it doesn't make the top 40.

Oh, well forget I mentioned it. You're better off :) You may be right about Zelda, idk. I'm trying to include games I like to play today, not based on how much they impressed me BITD or their historical importance. Probably should've said that right away.

[j_factor]

I think you mean Golden Axe, since Altered Beast never really had any sequels proper, which is bizarre to me considering what a staple it is in gaming, regardless of whether many consider it a simple or shallow game. I love it and would love to have seen a sequel.

Altered Beast had two sequels, one for GBA and one for PS2 (the latter not released in the US). I haven't played either of them but I'm 99.9% sure they suck.

[kedawa]

Master system has the best built-in games, that's for sure.
I never could figure out that flashing color game on the NES. ;)

[Graham Mitchell]

Altered Beast had two sequels, one for GBA and one for PS2 (the latter not released in the US). I haven't played either of them but I'm 99.9% sure they suck.

Amen.

[PSony]

Can Japanese Master Systems play American games? I just found out the Japanese systems have the advantage of FM sound.

[tom]

Right, the two comedians gone.
Here's a nice little selection of games which appeared on SMS in Europe, ranging from average/good to excellent:

Ace of Aces……Sega
Addams Family……Acclaim
Aladdin……Sega
Alien III……Arena
Alien Strom……Sega
Alien Syndrome……Sega
Arcade Smash Hits……Virgin
Asterix……Sega
Asterix, Secret Mission……Sega
Battle Out Run……Sega
Bonanza Bros……Sega
Bubble Bobble……Sega
California Games……Sega
California Games 2……Sega
Chase HQ……Sega
Chuck Rock……Virgin
Chuck Rock 2……Virgin
CJ Elephant……Codemasters
Cool Spot……Sega
Cosmic Spacehead……Codemasters
Crash Dummies……Acclaim
Cyber Shinobi……Sega
Desert Speedtrap……Sega
Desert Strike……Sega
Donald Duck: Lucky Dime……Sega
Donald Duck: Deep Duck Trouble……Sega
Double Hawk……Sega
Dropzone……Codemasters
Dynamit Dux……Sega
Ecco the Dolphin……Sega
Excellent Dizzy Collection……Codemasters
Fantastic Dizzy……Codemasters
Fire and Forget 2……Sega
Flash……Sega
Flintstones……Sega
Forgotten Worlds……Sega
Galaxy Force……Sega
Gauntlet……US Gold
Ghouls and Ghosts……Sega
G-Loc……Sega
Heroes of the Lance……US Gold
Impossible Mission……US Gold
Incredible Hulk……Kixx
Indiana Jones……US Gold
James Bond 007: Duel……Domark
James Pond 2: Robocod……US Gold
Jungle Book……Virgin
Jurassic Park……Sega
Klax……Sega
Lemmings……Sega
Lion King……Virgin
Marble Madness……Domark
Moonwalker……Sega
Mickey Mouse: Castle……Sega
Mickey Mouse: Land……Sega
Micro Machines……Codemasters
Mortal Kombat……Arena
Mortal Kombat 2……Acclaim
MS Pac-Man……Tengen
New Zealand Story……Tecmagik
Ninja Gaiden……Sega
Olympic Gold……US Gold
Ottifants……Sega
Out Run Europa……US Gold
Pac-Mania……Tecmagik
Paperboy……Sega
PGA Tour Golf……US Gold
Populous……Tekmagic
Primal Rage……Sega
Prince of Persia……Domark
Rainbow Islands……Sega
Rampage……Activision
Rampart……Domark
Road Rash……US Gold
Robin Hood……Virgin
Robocop vs Terminator……Virgin
R-Type……Sega
Sensible Soccer……Imagesoft
Shadow of the Beast……Tecmagik
Simpsons……Flying Edge
Simpsons 2……Flying Egde
Simpsons: Krusty……Flying Edge
The Smurfs……Infogrames
Smurfs 2
Sonic Chaos……Sega
Sonic……Sega
Sonic 2……Sega
Speedball……Imageworks
Speedball 2……Virgin
Spider-Man……Acclaim
Star Wars……US Gold
Streets of Rage……Sega
Steets of Rage 2……Sega
Strider 2……US Gold
Super Kick Off……US Gold
Super Space Invaders……Domark
Superman……Virgin
T2……Acclaim
Tom and Jerry
Trivial Pursuit……Domark
Winter Olympics……US Gold
Xenon 2……Virgin

[Breetai]

Can Japanese Master Systems play American games? I just found out the Japanese systems have the advantage of FM sound.
Here's a picture of some Japanese Master System stuff I'm selling (cheap plug!):
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Absinthaholic/DSCN4420.jpg?t=1260101964
Compare these cartridges to the US/Euro ones. I'll let you answer your own question. :)

[grolt]

Can Japanese Master Systems play American games? I just found out the Japanese systems have the advantage of FM sound.
Not natively, since the pinouts are different, but all you need is a little gender adapter that plugs into the back accessory port. Bock makes them over at SMSPower.org. They're perfect.

http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9116

[blue lander]

One of these days I need to order an adapter. I bought a lot of SG-1000 games and there were a few Mark III titles in there I can't play on my SG-1000 Mark II. You can play Japanese SMS games on cards on an American SMS if you make some minor circuit changes inside the unit to disable region lockout or whatever.

[Gameguy]

I think you mean Golden Axe, since Altered Beast never really had any sequels proper, which is bizarre to me considering what a staple it is in gaming, regardless of whether many consider it a simple or shallow game. I love it and would love to have seen a sequel.

If we're going by your criteria, then there are a few more survivors:

Out Run
Alien Syndrome
After Burner
Ys
Space Harrier (by way of Superstar Tennis)
Yeah, I was thinking of Golden Axe when I wrote that as that also was ported to the Genesis first before being ported to the SMS. It was past 2:00am when I wrote that so I wasn't thinking straight. Altered Beast does suck IMO, "Wise fwom yo gwabe". LOL

Those other games aren't bad, I have Ys for other systems though so I didn't think if it for the SMS. After Burner came out on the NES too, it's good though I seem to forget about it for some reason. Space Harrier isn't my style of game so it's not a reason for me to own the system. Alien Syndrome was alright, but personally I just found it decent and got tired of it after several levels. Out Run is good too, but I get bored of racers after 10 minutes so I don't play them often.


Right, the two comedians gone.
Here's a nice little selection of games which appeared on SMS in Europe, ranging from average/good to excellent:

Ace of Aces……Sega
Addams Family……Acclaim
Aladdin……Sega
Alien III……Arena
Alien Strom……Sega
Alien Syndrome……Sega
Arcade Smash Hits……Virgin
Asterix……Sega
Asterix, Secret Mission……Sega
Battle Out Run……Sega
Bonanza Bros……Sega
Bubble Bobble……Sega
California Games……Sega
California Games 2……Sega
Chase HQ……Sega
Chuck Rock……Virgin
Chuck Rock 2……Virgin
CJ Elephant……Codemasters
Cool Spot……Sega
Cosmic Spacehead……Codemasters
Crash Dummies……Acclaim
Cyber Shinobi……Sega
Desert Speedtrap……Sega
Desert Strike……Sega
Donald Duck: Lucky Dime……Sega
Donald Duck: Deep Duck Trouble……Sega
Double Hawk……Sega
Dropzone……Codemasters
Dynamit Dux……Sega
Ecco the Dolphin……Sega
Excellent Dizzy Collection……Codemasters
Fantastic Dizzy……Codemasters
Fire and Forget 2……Sega
Flash……Sega
Flintstones……Sega
Forgotten Worlds……Sega
Galaxy Force……Sega
Gauntlet……US Gold
Ghouls and Ghosts……Sega
G-Loc……Sega
Heroes of the Lance……US Gold
Impossible Mission……US Gold
Incredible Hulk……Kixx
Indiana Jones……US Gold
James Bond 007: Duel……Domark
James Pond 2: Robocod……US Gold
Jungle Book……Virgin
Jurassic Park……Sega
Klax……Sega
Lemmings……Sega
Lion King……Virgin
Marble Madness……Domark
Moonwalker……Sega
Mickey Mouse: Castle……Sega
Mickey Mouse: Land……Sega
Micro Machines……Codemasters
Mortal Kombat……Arena
Mortal Kombat 2……Acclaim
MS Pac-Man……Tengen
New Zealand Story……Tecmagik
Ninja Gaiden……Sega
Olympic Gold……US Gold
Ottifants……Sega
Out Run Europa……US Gold
Pac-Mania……Tecmagik
Paperboy……Sega
PGA Tour Golf……US Gold
Populous……Tekmagic
Primal Rage……Sega
Prince of Persia……Domark
Rainbow Islands……Sega
Rampage……Activision
Rampart……Domark
Road Rash……US Gold
Robin Hood……Virgin
Robocop vs Terminator……Virgin
R-Type……Sega
Sensible Soccer……Imagesoft
Shadow of the Beast……Tecmagik
Simpsons……Flying Edge
Simpsons 2……Flying Egde
Simpsons: Krusty……Flying Edge
The Smurfs……Infogrames
Smurfs 2
Sonic Chaos……Sega
Sonic……Sega
Sonic 2……Sega
Speedball……Imageworks
Speedball 2……Virgin
Spider-Man……Acclaim
Star Wars……US Gold
Streets of Rage……Sega
Steets of Rage 2……Sega
Strider 2……US Gold
Super Kick Off……US Gold
Super Space Invaders……Domark
Superman……Virgin
T2……Acclaim
Tom and Jerry
Trivial Pursuit……Domark
Winter Olympics……US Gold
Xenon 2……Virgin
Those are good games, I do feel that the SMS is a good system overall. I personally have a lot of those games that came out for other systems, so it wasn't enough of a reason for me personally to get the system, plus plenty are Europe exclusives so I'd have some trouble finding them locally. I think the SMS would have done a bit better in North America if it was marketed differently, just look at the generic bland style of case artwork. It doesn't stand out. The SMS is definitely a better system in Europe than North America.

[Arkhan]

is anyone else getting sick of these massive alphabetically sorted lists of games?

[Ed Oscuro]

Right, the two comedians gone.
Here's a nice little selection of games which appeared on SMS in Europe, ranging from average/good to excellent:

Galaxy Force……Sega
ROFL

What a gem! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOT1jRyPQoY)

Show's over, everybody go home.

is anyone else getting sick of these massive alphabetically sorted lists of games?
That, and the need to quote them in their entirety to add two lines of commentary

[Ed Oscuro]

Can Japanese Master Systems play American games? I just found out the Japanese systems have the advantage of FM sound.
Yes. All you need is this (if you've got 13 Euros or the equivalent in dollars, and a PayPal account):

http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9116

Easy as heck to use. They recommend getting the bent one so you can plug it into the back port, I think. Handy little thing. Granted, I don't know about it running on the pre-"Master System" (MK-2000) consoles, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't. A Mark III with the FM Sound module should be more or less the same as the MK-2000.

[grolt]

ROFL

What a gem! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOT1jRyPQoY)

Show's over, everybody go home.

Not sure what the laughing is about, but I think Galaxy Force is a game that actually pushes the SMS to its limits. It's got big detailed sprites, some very fast processing and scrolling that's a lot more seamless than Space Harrier or Thunder Blade. It could easily pass for first generation Genesis.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's also a piece of crap and no fun to play.

I'm fine with it being nothing at all like the arcade version, but just look at that video - even if the player does their best to react some hits don't register when they should. Way too much time wasted on that damn asteroid field at the beginning; we've all got things to do besides dodge random rocks all day long.

I don't get how you think this could pass as first gen Genesis - aside from the obvious SMS colors, sure, it's got a small background that scrolls, but nothing in this game moves faster than Space Harrier 2 and the distance things are drawn for is much smaller. Enemies don't double back or fire energy rings; they just fly onscreen and away.

Technically competent sure, but the SMS shouldn't have to have this junk included on a top 100 list. You don't see anybody picking Lazer Invasion / Gun Sight, Top Gun, or Space Luster for a Top 100 NES games list. This is just another too-ambitious arcade port on the SMS.

[ApolloBoy]

Granted, I don't know about it running on the pre-"Master System" (MK-2000) consoles, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't.

It doesn't since the Mark III has a different expansion port than the Japanese SMS. There is an adapter out there that'll work on both though, and it plugs into the cartridge port: http://tinyurl.com/ybbbs4w

[tom]

Not sure what the laughing is about, but I think Galaxy Force is a game that actually pushes the SMS to its limits. It's got big detailed sprites, some very fast processing and scrolling that's a lot more seamless than Space Harrier or Thunder Blade. It could easily pass for first generation Genesis.

Yeah, Galaxy Force is a good game, not outstanding, but good. But you gotta play it, don't just look at it on youTube, it's old school.
That is why I mentioned *average/good* - *excellent*, in my list....take your pick. It is NOT a Top 100 of SMS.

Arkhan, yes, I list alphabetically because it looks more professional. Don't read it if you cannot follow it.

[Zap!]

Yeah, Galaxy Force is a good game, not outstanding, but good. But you gotta play it, don't just look at it on youTube, it's old school.
That is why I mentioned *average/good* - *excellent*, in my list....take your pick. It is NOT a Top 100 of SMS.

Arkhan, yes, I list alphabetically because it looks more professional. Don't read it if you cannot follow it.

Personally, I think Phantasy Star looks a lot better.

[Gentlegamer]

This thread reminds me I need to get more games for SMS (I play via PBC). I have three games:
Phantasy Star
Choplifter
Golden Axe Warrior

[BydoEmpire]

I had all three back in the day, and have played all three quite a bit. The SMS was my favorite at the time, but the games - in general - have not held up as well imho. There are real gems on that system, though. Phantasy Star is a real highlight and showcase game for the console and it STILL looks good to this day. For the time the arcade ports were great, and it had a lot of really fun, unique games. The SMS graphics were sharper - bigger sprites and more colors.

So, "better" is an impossible question, though. It's my favorite post-crash 8-bit machine for nostalgic reasons, but I rarely play it now, whereas I still fire up my NES and 7800 fairly often.


Master system has the best built-in games, that's for sure.
I never could figure out that flashing color game on the NES. Hah, me neither! Snail maze was cool, though.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, Galaxy Force is a good game, not outstanding, but good. But you gotta play it, don't just look at it on youTube
All your taste is in your mouth, then. I have played it, which is obvious from my post ("no fun to play").

[todesengel]

A lot of the games in tom's list are good but honestly how could you even put Cyber Shinobi in any SMS games list? Cyber Shinobi was a piece of crap, horrible control and terrible hit detection. I do love the Master System though and just recently started getting PAL imports from a RFGeneration member. For me the SMS is kinda like the Saturn, if you want the really good stuff you gotta import for it. Never owned or played the 7800 so can't say anything about that one but I do play my Famicom way more the SMS just because it's so easier for me to find really good games for dirt cheap.

[tom]

All your taste is in your mouth, then. ").

Yeah, but I like Amidar on VCS, so my word is not engraved in stone

[fahlim003]

It's also a piece of crap and no fun to play.

I'm fine with it being nothing at all like the arcade version, but just look at that video - even if the player does their best to react some hits don't register when they should. Way too much time wasted on that damn asteroid field at the beginning; we've all got things to do besides dodge random rocks all day long.

I don't get how you think this could pass as first gen Genesis - aside from the obvious SMS colors, sure, it's got a small background that scrolls, but nothing in this game moves faster than Space Harrier 2 and the distance things are drawn for is much smaller. Enemies don't double back or fire energy rings; they just fly onscreen and away.

Technically competent sure, but the SMS shouldn't have to have this junk included on a top 100 list. You don't see anybody picking Lazer Invasion / Gun Sight, Top Gun, or Space Luster for a Top 100 NES games list. This is just another too-ambitious arcade port on the SMS.

Too true. While I dug the music for GF2 SMS, it simply isn't fun as asteroids appearing out of nowhere and seemingly jumping all over the screen at times is annoying. GF2 sadly wasn't done justice until Sega Ages 2500 Vol.31 when Sega finally ported an accurate version. That youtube clip does the game no favours either and even though what was accomplished technically is impressive for SMS, I believe it could've been better.

Speaking of Space Harrier 2, wouldn't it rock if that game ran at 60fps or just in general had smoother scrolling. That'd be sweet as it's already damn good for a launch title.

[SplashChick]

SMS is cool and all and its hardware is definitely superior, but its game library sure as hell isn't.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, but I like Amidar on VCS, so my word is not engraved in stone
LOL
Amidar on VCS would be like 1/4 of a Qix, isn't it? I don't know that one, but it's a real-time puzzle game (based on a lottery game) so it can't be all that bad.

A lot of the games in tom's list are good but honestly how could you even put Cyber Shinobi in any SMS games list? Cyber Shinobi was a piece of crap, horrible control and terrible hit detection.
Well...I didn't pick that one out, but it's sitting on my shelf of US SMS games, so...

I've seen all the stages. Big letdown but it's hard not to admire what they were trying to do (at points). Same story as Galaxy Force 2 actually. Really ought to flesh out my SMS library with imported copies of Shadow Dancer and Ninja Gaiden sometime.

[todesengel]

Well...I didn't pick that one out, but it's sitting on my shelf of US SMS games, so...

I've seen all the stages. Big letdown but it's hard not to admire what they were trying to do (at points). Same story as Galaxy Force 2 actually. Really ought to flesh out my SMS library with imported copies of Shadow Dancer and Ninja Gaiden sometime.
Definitely get Ninja Gaiden, it's a fun little game and plays a bit different from the NES games. As for my remark on Cyber Shinobi I guess I am a little overly hard on it. Honestly haven't played it in years so maybe I'll give it another shot if I find a cheap copy. I was surprised with the port of Shadow Dancer, really cool to see that it was a nice attempt at porting the arcade game over and makes me wonder how it could have been on the Genesis if we hadn't have gotten the remixed/redone version.

[Platinum]

I like all of my systems. I like the NES, the SMS, the 7800.

I have 2 NES systems (both versions) and 2 SMS units.

Honestly I play the NES a lot more than any other older console I have. But the SMS has one weapon up its arsenal, that the NES never had....

R-type.

R-type today is a perfect game to me, and the SMS version and TG-16 version are my favorite ones (they are tied).

I just wish that the SMS had a better chance overall, it would have been interesting to see what it could pump out.

[Valkrazhor]

Ninja Gaiden (Nes series), is no where near PAL SMS Ninja Gaiden

I've never played the PAL SMS Ninja Gaiden before. I've only seen videos of it on YouTube. It looks great and I definitely want to pick it up at some point. From what I've seen though it looks totally different so it shouldn't really be compared to Ninja Gaiden NES. Kind of like how Shinobi III and Shadow Dancer shouldn't be compared.

Anyhow...

Ninja Gaiden NES has near flawless design. To this day I've never played another game that flows as smooth as it does. It's crazy difficult but at the same time programmed so perfectly that if you time everything just right you can flow through it like butter without even stopping from running as if you're riding a wave. Just as any true ninja should. This coupled with its ungodly awesome music and visual style makes me wonder if you just pulled that statement from a nostalgia filled state of mind or not because for it to be true, PAL Ninja Gaiden had better be blow your socks off make you fly across the room out the window and roll across the grass amazing and then some. Here's hoping.

[Ed Oscuro]

To this day I've never played another game that flows as smooth as it does. It's crazy difficult but at the same time programmed so perfectly that if you time everything just right you can flow through it like butter without even stopping from running as if you're riding a wave. Just as any true ninja should.
I've not gotten to that level of Ninjery yet but this is also how I often judge an action game. It's part of the reason why I tend to be hard on Contra 4 and other "slow" titles in that series.

On the subject of Ninja Gaiden SMS - from what I've seen it's definitely slower paced, and more reliant on platforming. Almost like an easier Ghosts 'n' Goblins series game. Not bad, though.

Anyway, I really ought to forget about Shadow Dancer for the SMS, since I could just get the arcade board. Genesis version may be a completely new game, but it's a favorite.

[Gentlegamer]

Question: What video output does SMS have? [/Dwight] The original only outputs RF, the second has composite capability, if I remember correctly. I have the PBC, but I want an actual console and don't want to use RF.

[Arasoi]

The DIN8 A/V out jack provides composite video, audio, and RGB on the original models and is compatible with Genesis 1 A/V/RGB cables.

[Zoltor]

I disagree, while the Master System "might've" had more "good" games, but the games that the NES does have that are worth playing, are downright godly.

Crystalis(to this day, it remains the best action/RPG ever made).

Dragon Warrior 3(easily in the top 3 best RPGs ever made).

SMB 1, 2, and 3 are all own

Dragon Warrior 2 is a great game for the challange of your life(not only is it the hardest RPG ever made, but the hardest game ever made period)

Adventures of Lolo 1, 2, and 3 are exceptionally great puzzle games.

Marble Madness is another awesome puzzle(like) game.

Snake, Rattle, and Roll is a mixture of Action/Puzzle, and is simply amazing to say the least.

Pipe Dreams, Tetris and Dr Mario are another type of puzzle game, that also rock.

Gradius owns as a shooter

Guardian Legend is downright godly for a rather unique game(It's a mix of a Action/RPG, and a shooter).

Wizardry 1, 2, + Sword, and Serpents are awesome dungeon crawler RPGs.

Tombs, and Treasure+ King's Quest 5 are awesome PC style RPGs.

(I wont mention Double Dragon 2 or Contra, as I think both systems have them).

Well I think that should be enough to make my point.

PS. Woops, I forgot about TMNT, Zelda, Link, and Shadow of The Ninja. I'm sure there's a bunch of other great games as well.

[kemmer]

SMS is cool and all and its hardware is definitely superior, but its game library sure as hell isn't.

The SMS library is clearly it's only weakness. There are tons of great games for it, more than I could afford to buy back in the day, but when it came time to rent some games or trade with friends I was SOL for the most part. After owing the thing for a year or so, I sold it and bought an NES. If I could only have one 8 bit system, I would still go with the NES.

[Arkhan]

I disagree, while the Master System "might've" had more "good" games, the games that the NES does have that are worth playing, are dornright godly...
..
*insert post here*
..
PS. Woops, I forgot about TMNT, Zelda, Link, and Shadow of The Ninja. I'm sure there's a bunch of other great games as well.

You forgot Dungeon Magic! and Might and Magic.

and dare I say, Ultima Exodus. easily the best version of Ultima III (unless you count the MSX counterpart which is better by JUST a pinch control wise)

though, SMS's Ultima IV was more traditional and "better" than the NES's version which took a Dragon Warrior approach (that in the end, kicked ass)

[Baloo]

SMS is cool and all and its hardware is definitely superior, but its game library sure as hell isn't.

Yeah, the Master System's library is much weaker than the NES's. I have a hard time finding games that look interesting to play on the Master System that AREN'T PAL. PAL MS library is really good though. Illusion series, Sonic series, other 16-bit conversions that we didn't get. US MS library is utter shit.

The Master System has some great sound hardware though. NES sounds like junk most of the time, whereas Master System has some awesome sound.

[Zoltor]

You forgot Dungeon Magic! and Might and Magic.

and dare I say, Ultima Exodus. easily the best version of Ultima III (unless you count the MSX counterpart which is better by JUST a pinch control wise)

though, SMS's Ultima IV was more traditional and "better" than the NES's version which took a Dragon Warrior approach (that in the end, kicked ass)

Yea, forgot those.

PS. Omg, how did I forget one of my favorite games, "Romace of the Three Kingdoms"(the other games of the series are good as well, but that's the best one).

Then there is Willow(It's not as godly as Crystalis, but then again nothing is anyway).

[j_factor]

and dare I say, Ultima Exodus. easily the best version of Ultima III (unless you count the MSX counterpart which is better by JUST a pinch control wise)

Crazy talk.

[Dire 51]

(I wont mention Double Dragon 2 or Contra, as I think both systems have them).
Nope, the SMS has neither.

[Zoltor]

Nope, the SMS has neither.

Hm, I could've sworn it had Double Dragon 2 atleast. Well if not, then you can add those two, to the great NES games.

[Baloo]

SMS doesn't have Contra, but it does have the first Double Dragon.

[vivaeljason]

Yeah, the Master System's library is much weaker than the NES's. I have a hard time finding games that look interesting to play on the Master System that AREN'T PAL. PAL MS library is really good though. Illusion series, Sonic series, other 16-bit conversions that we didn't get. US MS library is utter shit.

The Master System has some great sound hardware though. NES sounds like junk most of the time, whereas Master System has some awesome sound.

Is it really surprising that the PAL library is superior to the NTSC library? I mean, the SMS actually did really well in Europe (better than the NES did, if I'm not mistaken), so there was actually a good reason for games to be developed over there.

[j_factor]

What's the point of even making the distinction? On the SMS, North America and Europe are the same territory. Only a tiny handful of European SMS games have problems with US consoles.

[kupomogli]

This all comes down to PSG vs. FM sound, I say. To me, the FM music sounds far superior.

Here's a quick comparison:

Phantasy Star - FM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOKHsl632vQ)
Phantasy Star - PSG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gujjNjW2qVc)

I wonder why Sega thought of the brilliant idea of putting the FM chip in the SMS Mark III right before the SMS itself died.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4D2kiekQOI Kid Icarus. To hate this game is to hate life itself

I must hate life itself. I've never got why people praised Kid Icarus so much. The NES game is average at best. The GB game on the other hand is a really good game.

It's also funny that most Nintendo fanboys never even heard of the Kid Icarus game until playing Super Smash Bros Brawl, then magically it's one of the best games ever made.



Final Fantasy III

Worst Final Fantasy. People may say FF2, but that's completely untrue. FF2 atleast has a good storyline going for it. FF3 has grinding to back it up, lots and lots of grinding with somehow extremely slowed down gameplay in comparison to FF1 and FF2.


QFT.

You wouldnt believe how many people playerhate on faxanadu

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Faxanadu is amazing. What's to hate on?

--

Anyways, the SMS is a somewhat good systems. I like it. But like I said, most of the games are watered down arcade ports and only some games are better versions of other games or different games than those on the NES, etc.

[nectarsis]

I LOVE the post on page 1 bringing the popularity of the SMS in Brazil...seriously?? The country that only recently hasd the PS2 "release" formally there after NINE years. Having family there, gaming has always been a SLOW, and expensive deal. They would hold on to ANYTHING bitd they could actually find. Hence why the SMS flourished years after it "died" in the US.

[A Black Falcon]

I wonder why Sega thought of the brilliant idea of putting the FM chip in the SMS Mark III right before the SMS itself died.

But more importantly, who decided to only release the FM addon in Japan and not in any of the markets where the system actually did well? I mean, even in the US the SMS lasted several years more than it did in Japan, and in Europe it lasted for nearly five years beyond that... and yet the FM addon only came out in Japan? Why?

And why did games released after 1989 support FM audio, when virtually no systems they were actually being played on supported it?

It just seems kind of weird...


Faxanadu is amazing. What's to hate on?

Agreed, Faxanadu is a great game, no question... can someone list why some people dislike it?

I mean, Legacy of the Wizard, sure. That game's borderline unplayable between its way-too-long passwords and very confusing game design (the whole game is a giant maze, you have multiple characters who each can get into different parts of the maze, you can get into places you can't get out of (return to your last password or something!), etc... it's kind of fun to wander around, but actually playing it seriously is beyond my patience I think. Maybe if it had things modern games would like an ingame map, etc...

But anyway, Faxanadu doesn't do any of those things wrong and is a quite good side-scrolling action-RPG.

As for the SMS, I don't have one, but there are several available around here right now for $30-45... don't have the money to buy one right now, but when ever I get another system, it's on my list. I'm not sure if I'd get it first because I also want an original Xbox (among other things like a Wii, some second-gen system (2600? Intellivision?), etc, and kind of don't want a SMS if I could just get a Power Base Converter (which would hopefully cost less, even on EBay...), but I'll probably get one eventually anyway. I do own one SMS game, I got Power Strike (complete in box US B&W cover version) nearly a year ago after seeing it for like $3.50. Took me months to convince myself to buy it actually, but it didn't sell, and eventually I did. (My only regret is that I didn't get the other good SMS game that place had but actually did sell, complete Rastan... and that's worth less than Power Strike for sure).

[SplashChick]

Hm, I could've sworn it had Double Dragon 2 atleast. Well if not, then you can add those two, to the great NES games.

Double Dragon 2? Are you on drugs or something?

[Zoltor]

Double Dragon 2? Are you on drugs or something?

Are you on drugs, is the real question, because you can't be saying Double Dragon 2 wasn't a great game.

[tom]

Are you on drugs, is the real question, because you can't be saying Double Dragon 2 wasn't a great game.

It was alright for NES standards.

[GameBoyGeek]

Yeah the SMS was so much better than the NES man Thats why it whipped the NES's ass in sales all over the place.:duh:

[tom]

Yeah the SMS was so much better than the NES man Thats why it whipped the NES's ass in sales all over the place.:duh:


NES sales: quantity over quality. Who's stupid now?

[vivaeljason]

It's also funny that most Nintendo fanboys never even heard of the Kid Icarus game until playing Super Smash Bros Brawl, then magically it's one of the best games ever made.


I admit that I'm probably in the minority, but Kid Icarus was one of my favorite games growing up. I liked it a hell of a lot more than Metroid, for instance, and have always been bummed about the lack of Super Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus 64, and Kid Icarus with Motion Control.

[GameBoyGeek]

NES sales: quantity over quality. Who's stupid now?


Look at what company is still making consoles and then ask your self that question my friend. ;)

Decent system I'm not saying it wasn't. But I think the sales results speak for them selves. SMS had some great games. But well if it was so great then I would guess it would have been able to hang with its competition don't you?

[tom]

Look at what company is still making consoles and then ask your self that question my friend. ;)



Isn't the Wii history repeating itself? Quantity over quality? I believe so.

But let's not dwell on who's around now and who's not, many different aspects contribute to some companies not being around nowadays.
Remember how many times Nintendo was almost bankrupt, if they would have stuck to making arcades, they would have long been forgotten..

[GameBoyGeek]

Isn't the Wii history repeating itself? Quantity over quality? I believe so.

But let's not dwell on who's around now and who's not, many different aspects contribute to some companies not being around nowadays.
Remember how many times Nintendo was almost bankrupt, if they would have stuck to making arcades, they would have long been forgotten..

Did you see me say ANYTHING about the wii doing well or being able to hold up? No you did not. I said had that system been as great is everyone is making it out to be it would have been able to hold up to its competition at the time and that It did not. So don't throw the Wii's sales and how its doing in today's market at me. I am very well aware of that thank you. If you have a point to make then make it, but dont bring a console that blows both of the systems that we are talking about out of the water in comparison. The wii is far superior to the nes and the sms so it doesn't even apply to the conversation my friend.

I agree with you on the arcade making that much is true. I just dont think the sms was all everyone makes it up to be. Im not trying belittle anyone who thinks other wise but to me the history of which systems stood out speaks for its self.

[tom]

I agree with you on the arcade making that much is true. I just dont think the sms was all everyone makes it up to be. Im not trying belittle anyone who thinks other wise but to me the history of which systems stood out speaks for its self.

Yes, but the NES didn't 'stand out' in Europe, over here it was a huge failure due to high pricing and bad software. (NES hardware sales by 1992 in Europe: 1.5 million, compared to USA sales a HUUUGE flop; source: Game Over)

[Ed Oscuro]

One thing I will give to Europe and the SMS is that there was an oasis for the system. It still didn't end up with nearly as many games (or as good ones) as it should have (the major game-playing territories, North America and Japan, still had to develop software for their markets to make the maximum return and that meant going to the NES), but it helped the situation I'd say. The copy of Power Strike II I recently got is proof enough of this.

[Gameguy]

What's the point of even making the distinction? On the SMS, North America and Europe are the same territory. Only a tiny handful of European SMS games have problems with US consoles.
I guess it depends on local availability, I pretty much only buy games that I come across in person. I don't want to have to ship a bunch of games only to find out that they're decent and not great.

I came across a Hong Kong game and it works fine in my system, there's really no problems with most import games.


But more importantly, who decided to only release the FM addon in Japan and not in any of the markets where the system actually did well? I mean, even in the US the SMS lasted several years more than it did in Japan, and in Europe it lasted for nearly five years beyond that... and yet the FM addon only came out in Japan? Why?

And why did games released after 1989 support FM audio, when virtually no systems they were actually being played on supported it?

It just seems kind of weird...
It's kind of sounding like they released the add-on in Japan in the hopes of increasing the lifespan of the system there, it didn't need it in other regions as the system was still popular enough. I still don't understand it all too well either, I really can't find too much info on it.


Agreed, Faxanadu is a great game, no question... can someone list why some people dislike it?

Faxanadu doesn't do any of those things wrong and is a quite good side-scrolling action-RPG.
I didn't really get into Faxanadu, I'm not sure of the exact reason but it was kind of too slow paced for me. I'm not really into RPGs that much, but the ones I like have an interesting story or interesting characters that keep my interest. Faxanadu kind of lacked all that and was boring to me. I don't hate it, I can play it if I gave it a chance but I would be really bored the whole time. Legacy of the Wizard I could not stand at all.


I do have a question about release dates though, maybe Tom would be in a better position to answer this. How were the release dates for the SMS in Europe compared to other consoles? I ask because I recently read about Altered Beast and while in North America both the SMS and Genesis version came out at about the same time, the European version of the Mega Drive version came out about a year after the SMS version. From what I could read the SMS version was extremely worse than the Genesis/Mega Drive version(I had a copy of the SMS version but I sold it off, I didn't play it much). Did the release dates of games affect the popularity of the systems that were available?

[Ed Oscuro]

I've got a really nice copy of it, but Faxanadu didn't really catch my attention.

On the other hand, I've kept meaning to put some time into Castle of Illusion. Might have that one just on the Game Gear actually. It's too bad GG games aren't compatible with the SMS - if that were so, I'd have a much more favorable opinion of the SMS (both systems, actually, considering the Game Gear is such a pain-in-the-ass high maintenance system).

[kupomogli]

Look at what company is still making consoles and then ask your self that question my friend. ;)

The Dreamcast has a small library and it still has a lot more games that are good than the N64, Gamecube, and Wii(not combined.) Just because the company is no longer making systems means nothing. Which comes back down to what Tom had to say. Sales mean nothing.

The Xbox 360 and the PS3 are second and third place this generation in sales but both leading this generation as the two best systems(if you counted the big three only.) You might see a few good ones going to the Wii, but what systems do you see the better games going to? Multiconsole on both PS360 and sometimes exclusive, both systems walk all over the Wii when it comes to having a good library.

A lot of systems were far better than a lot of others released at the time, but due to current fanbase of systems already out, a lot of the systems that tried to get into the market failed. Sony happened to get lucky doing far better than Nintendo with a less powerful system, then again, it was easy when it was overall the most affordable system with a ton of good games.

So yeah. The most affordable system during that era won(the Playstation,) with the most affordable system during this era is winning(the Wii.) There's just one difference. One of these systems were affordable and had games, the other one doesn't, just a lot of shovelware.

*edit*

Actually. The most affordable system that era was the Virtual Boy(once stores started discounting the price to a ridiculously low amount.) Though you could technically say it was the least affordable when you could do permanent damage to your eyes and spend even more money in the long run at an eye doctor.

[A Black Falcon]

[quote]It's kind of sounding like they released the add-on in Japan in the hopes of increasing the lifespan of the system there, it didn't need it in other regions as the system was still popular enough. I still don't understand it all too well either, I really can't find too much info on it.

You'd really think that they'd want to release the addon in markets where the system did better though, in order to make more money off of the thing. It's really weird.


I didn't really get into Faxanadu, I'm not sure of the exact reason but it was kind of too slow paced for me. I'm not really into RPGs that much, but the ones I like have an interesting story or interesting characters that keep my interest. Faxanadu kind of lacked all that and was boring to me. I don't hate it, I can play it if I gave it a chance but I would be really bored the whole time. Legacy of the Wizard I could not stand at all.

Well if you don't like the genre, that'd be a reason to dislike it. For anyone who does like them though, Faxanadu is great.


The Dreamcast has a small library and it still has a lot more games that are good than the N64, Gamecube, and Wii(not combined.) Just because the company is no longer making systems means nothing. Which comes back down to what Tom had to say. Sales mean nothing.

The DC may have a good library, but I'd never agree with that statement... but of course, I am a Nintendo fan and always have been. The N64 and GC are two of my favorite consoles. But still, I agree with the end of this part, because I would rank the N64, GC, and DC all above the PS1 and PS2... :)

As for the Wii though, it may not have ALL of the games, but it has more than you're giving it credit for. Yes, third parties have treated it horribly, and that's stupid of them. But it's not like the system has nothing, it has a decent library of good games. Sure, I wish there were more, I wish it had better graphics and more games that are also on the other systems (even if Nintendo's first-party stuff is obviously dominant on the system and for good reasons, Nintendo is a great developer)... but there definitely are some.


Actually. The most affordable system that era was the Virtual Boy(once stores started discounting the price to a ridiculously low amount.) Though you could technically say it was the least affordable when you could do permanent damage to your eyes and spend even more money in the long run at an eye doctor.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous, it's partially because of stupid rumors like that that the system did so badly... and it's really too bad, the Virtual Boy is a pretty cool system really. :(

Some people get a headache from playing it, but other than that it does not hurt your eyes. It doesn't affect me at all, for instance.

[GameBoyGeek]

Yes, but the NES didn't 'stand out' in Europe, over here it was a huge failure due to high pricing and bad software. (NES hardware sales by 1992 in Europe: 1.5 million, compared to USA sales a HUUUGE flop; source: Game Over)

Again sales speak for them selves. I don't live in Europe but I do know that the sms didn't out live the nes and you can say that, that doesn't matter that the sms is better all you want. I'm just saying that if that were the case it would have beaten out the nes and it didn't. Did they stop selling the nes in Europe because of over pricing and software issues?

[j_factor]

How on Earth are sales relevant to the conversation?


I guess it depends on local availability, I pretty much only buy games that I come across in person. I don't want to have to ship a bunch of games only to find out that they're decent and not great.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but I can't imagine that there are any great local sources of SMS games. In my experience, games for less popular older systems aren't that easy to come by in the wild (although SMS isn't as bad as some others). In the entire Bay Area (where I live), there are maybe five stores that stock SMS games at all. Finding anything remotely uncommon is going to be a crapshoot. For example, it's been years since I've seen Phantasy Star in the wild, and that's not exactly super rare. As an aside, when I do see SMS games in the wild, it's not a rare occurrence to see a European game or two. Nowadays it's so common for people to get them (and even back in the day, you could mail order them), so they occasionally show up. I have a pretty significant number of SMS games in my collection that were released in the US, but my copy is European.

With fewer and fewer independent game stores, and with the games getter older and older, these days, you kind of have to go online, IMO.

Plus, Sonic was released in the US, but it would be silly to seek out that version when you can get the European version for like 5 bucks. :p


I do have a question about release dates though, maybe Tom would be in a better position to answer this. How were the release dates for the SMS in Europe compared to other consoles? I ask because I recently read about Altered Beast and while in North America both the SMS and Genesis version came out at about the same time, the European version of the Mega Drive version came out about a year after the SMS version. From what I could read the SMS version was extremely worse than the Genesis/Mega Drive version(I had a copy of the SMS version but I sold it off, I didn't play it much). Did the release dates of games affect the popularity of the systems that were available?

I'm not an expert on European release dates, but in your example, it's merely because the Mega Drive itself launched a year later there. From what I can gather, post-1990, about half came out for SMS after, and the other half came out around the same time, and very few came out for SMS first. Quite a few SMS ports were farmed out to different teams. I can tell you with certainty that Shadow of the Beast, Pac-Mania, and Populous all came out for SMS after they came out for Mega Drive (and the Mega Drive versions themselves came out significantly after the originals). On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Codemasters' games came out for both systems around the same time, along with tie-in games like The Lion King, Global Gladiators, etc. Paperboy came out for SMS before Genesis/MD, but its releases are kind of all over the place.

[tom]

I do have a question about release dates though, maybe Tom would be in a better position to answer this. How were the release dates for the SMS in Europe compared to other consoles? I ask because I recently read about Altered Beast and while in North America both the SMS and Genesis version came out at about the same time, the European version of the Mega Drive version came out about a year after the SMS version. From what I could read the SMS version was extremely worse than the Genesis/Mega Drive version(I had a copy of the SMS version but I sold it off, I didn't play it much). Did the release dates of games affect the popularity of the systems that were available?

About release dates I have to dig out my UK Mean Machines/ Sega Power/C&VG magazines and check. I do remember the SMS came at the height when everyone in UK was still using ZX Spectrum/C64/ST/Amiga as gaming machines. And those 4 were very popular in UK. Untouchable until the MegaDrive came along really.