Prediction: The Xbox won't age well as a console.

[SegaAges]

I have about 75 titles on the original XBOX and that is after slimming my collection down. I think it will age fine, my 4 year old son is having a blast with it.

I am worried about the 360 more than the original xbox. I say that because the 360 seems to break. A lot of "experts" expect all of the 360s to have problems because of their design. In ten years, when microsoft stops repairing the 360s, how are you gonna play the games? I thought the wide-spread reports of 360s breaking was hype, but when my 360 died this weekend, I was shocked. I have only 150 hours on that system. I have never had a system break like the 360. It just stop one day for no reason. I never play for longer than a few hours at a time.

I am currently looking at the PS3 closer. The blueray victory and the fact that 360s break so much, it's making me re-think my situation. I know alot of people are waiting for MS to get the "bugs" out of the 360, I wish I would have waited.

Is now a bad time to mention that the hd dvd players also break very easily too?

[norkusa]

I was being sarcastic.


TIMES FIVE!!!!!!!!1!!~~!1!!

Don't know why, but I lol'd hard at that.

[The 1 2 P]

Don't know why, but I lol'd hard at that.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Thats why;)

[Rob2600]

No way, the original will always be remembered as the system that launched MS as a gaming company

Just like how the Odyssey will always be remembered because it launched Magnavox as a gaming company? :)

[norkusa]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Thats why;)

Heh, I know. I just thought it was a lot funnier than it should have been. ROFL

[Nionel]

This thread has been a very interesting read, I've been between the Cube and the Xbox for my primary console for last gen games, and I can say that this thread has helped me decide that I'll be focusing more on Xbox, even with it's lack of RPGs, Xbox has some good titles that the GC never got.

[demen999]

I will have to disagree. I had tons o fun on the xbox. Live was the shite, and fun as all hell. I am on the border of hating the PS2 out of all the last gen systems. The games were all the same (Yes GTA esp.), and most were crappy IMHO TIll this day, I have like 20 something PS2 games, and I didn't finish one! I loved the GC, well I'm sort of a nintendo fan :p
I hated the xbox at first, then it grew on me bigtime. So yeah...

[Richter Belmount]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library , 2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits. In my book most developers had avoided the Xbox console , they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library , however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

[Rob2600]

I agree with Boatofcar. Will the Xbox be forgotten by video game enthusiasts like us? No, of course not.


However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.


Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.


It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

[The 1 2 P]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox. For starters, Gamecube only had 648 games compared to the Xbox's 950. I'll let you do the math on that one. As for the famous first party software on the cube, like all of Nintendo's other systems, the first party games on GC are really good. But the number of good first party games on the GC is not even a quarter of all the great games on the Xbox(I'm counting both first and third party here). And the Gamecube's first party and third party good games aren't even half of the Xbox's good games.


2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits.

So the Gamecube got all the mainstream titles like Grand Theft Auto 3, GTA: Vice City, GTA: San Andreas, Burnout 3 and Revenge, Max Payne 1+2, Mortal Kombat Armagedden, Star Wars: Battlefront 1+2, Star Wars: Revenge of The Sith, Silent Hill 2+4 and hundreds more that I'm not going to name? Funny how I don't remember the Gamecube getting any of those mainstream titles. But I know which systems did: the Xbox and PS2.



In my book most developers avoided the Xbox console, they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library

So the reason the Xbox got so many great console exclusives such as Star Wars: Kotor, Farcry Instincts, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Otogi, Ninja Gaiden, Chronicles of Riddick, Metal Slug 3 and several more was because developers didn't want to make games for it? Wrong again.


however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

Don't like the Duke? Get a controller "s"(shame I actually had to point that one out). And the Xbox had the best graphics of the last gen, which means they were better than the Gamecube's. You are of course entitled to your opinion but thats the weakest argument anyone has ever made in the cube's defense. Which leads us to.....


However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise. As for your list, I like it. But heres one of my own:

Halo
Halo 2
Farcry Instincts
Half-Life 2
Otogi
Star Wars: Jedi Knight Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Kotor
Star Wars: Kotor 2
Fable
Elderscrolls 3 Morrowind
Doom 3
Ninja Gaiden Black
Metal SLug 3
Dead or Alive 3
Chronicles of Riddick
Deus Ex 2
Unreal Championship 2
Star Wars: Republic Commando

.......all of which are NOT on the Gamecube, but are available on the Xbox. It also was really hard to narrow that list down to just 18 titles:)


Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.

If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation(that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.


It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era. The difference is that each of those systems had more games and much better games. The N64 had some great games, but the number of good games pales in comparison to the other systems, especially the PS1.

[otoko]

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

One of these is not like the the other.

Dreamcast was the first of the PS2, xbox, GCN gen, not part of the PS1, N64, Saturn gen.

I don't know, it seems a large percentage of my fellow gamers who do not partake in classic collecting own or owned a xbox (or more currently a 360). I do own all four of that gen and I think the xbox might be remembered more because it basically was between it and the PS2 during that generation.

I love my gamecube, but it was not a popular consumer system.
Dreamcast died prematurly.
PS2 has a large and great library but no particular "Stand out titles" or that era seems to compete with halo.
Xbox had halo.

heh.

[Richter Belmount]

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox
You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/chroniclesofriddick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.



Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

[josekortez]

All hail the 1 2 P for a well-thought out response on that last one.

However, I still doubt that lack of information about the Xbox is what will keep it from gaining the revered status as shown by some of the responses here. I think people seem to believe that the Xbox was only good for ports, which is one of its strengths since I can't think of a multi-platform game that wasn't better on the Xbox than it was on the PS2 or GameCube.

And when it becomes tough to find GameCube memory cards in the wild, the Xbox will still be there ready to play with a seemingly limitless default hard drive for saves (I own hundreds of original Xbox games that I have saves for and haven't seen the bottom of the thing yet, even with several custom soundtracks), assuming you didn't get one with a Thompson drive.

[Gentlegamer]

Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.Dude, Crimson Skies rulez! I love that game!

[chrisbid]

it will end up like the ps1 and the sega genesis, it wont have the large collector base of a nintendo system, so for manufacturer agnostics like many people on DP, it will be fun and relatively inexpensive to collect for

[Rob2600]

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

You're right, I can't predict the future, but that's what this thread is all about, so I'm just going along with it.

You missed my point. I'm not bashing the Xbox or blindly defending the GameCube. I'm just pointing out how one art/design philosophy has a wider, longer-lasting appeal than the other.

Many of the Xbox games you listed appeal to the video game enthusiast. They're dark, gritty, "mature," and complex. That's fine. They're well-produced games, but they're missing the simple charm and mass appeal that attracts non-enthusiasts. Looking through a box full of old games ten years from now, average people will gloss over Splinter Cell and Forza racing, but they'll recognize Super Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid. And even if they don't recognize games like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Killer 7, Super Monkey Ball, or Viewtiful Joe, the cover artwork is stylized and sticks out enough in a sea of dark, gritty, generic CGI that people will at least stop and look at their back covers.

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.


If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation (that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

And ten years from now, people won't even know what Riddick is.


I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

Once again, I'm not talking about enthusiasts like you or anyone else on DP. Enthusiasts collect for many different, if not all, game consoles. We are not the average Joe Schmoe video gaming public.

I'm talking about a twenty year old who, ten years from now, will sift through a box of old video games at a flea market. He or she will probably pass by all the seemingly similar-looking army games and driving games, but will stop at the Mario or Zelda game and say, "Yes, cool!"...just like Joe Schmoe frat boys do today when they walk into a store like Digital Press in NJ.

Why do you think Joe charges so much for a common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

[Chadt74]

Good call on Goldeneye 007! I have yet to play Riddick, but it will be tough to beat Goldeneye.

[Bojay1997]

You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/chroniclesofriddick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.



How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

A couple of points here. There is absolutely no way that the Gamecube is going to be a heavily desired or collected system down the road. Why? Simply because virtually every single first party game released for it is being ported or given a slightly improved sequel on the Wii. Why would anyone seek out inferior versions of the same games? It's the same reason that many people don't collect the Dreamcast. Almost everything that was unique and special about its library is now appearing on other systems in a better version.

I think the PS2 just isn't going to age well from a mainstream playability standpoint in much the same way the Playstation hasn't, although there are quite a few artistic games that will keep the PS2 in the hands of collectors many years down the road. Having said that, I think there are tons of Xbox exclusive games that are artistic as well and have lasting appeal.

Claiming that ports of some Xbox games are available for the PC is absurd. With the speed at which PC specs change and the spectre of OS incompatibility, very few people are going to be collecting PC ports, even if they have slight enhancements over the Xbox versions. Heck, have you tried to collect PC games that are even 8 years old at this point? Anything pre-XP is hard to run without a lot of work.

I'm not sure what's wrong with your Xbox or TV, but there is nothing muddy or washed out in the graphics for Xbox games. In fact, if you do frame comparisons of 99% of the multi-platform games released in the last five years, I guarantee the Xbox version will have the best graphics and color palette of the two or three versions. If you still are having problems, you may want to use the video menu in most Xbox games and make some adjustments to optimize the appearance of games on your TV.

All three systems from last generation have their merits and I will concede that the PS2 will probably be the most collected simply because of the volume of obscure titles, but I expect the Xbox won't be far behind, particularly if the trend continues in this generation where almost none of the Xbox exclusives are being ported or sequeled.

[CosmicMonkey]

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

Rob wins the thread.

At least the Xbox will be remembered for Xbox Media Center. Surely the greatest collaborative homebrew achievement ever, and it's now available for OS X/Apple TV, Windows and Linux, along with other offshoots like Boxee.

[ProgrammingAce]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

[j_factor]

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

You actually have a good point here, but it applies to Gamecube too. Nintendo "updates" their games with the best of them. Pikmin, Mario Power Tennis, and Metroid Prime are going to be re-released for Wii, and RE4 is already out for it (obviously). Smash Bros. Melee will be dropped like a bad habit when the fourth Smash game comes out, if it isn't already (the original on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days).

Xbox also has plenty of games that aren't going to be obsolete anytime soon. He just didn't make that kind of a list. Consider:

Voodoo Vince
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Tron 2.0: Killer App
Psychonauts
Stubbs the Zombie in Rebel Without A Pulse
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Indigo Prophecy
Kung Fu Chaos
Breakdown
Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon
Still Life
Toejam & Earl III
Sid Meier's Pirates!
etc.

[Richter Belmount]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

Sic semper tyrannis!!

[Rob2600]

the original (Super Smash Bros.) on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games.
might as well be phasing out gc games. for over a year now, gc games at every local gs have been relegated to a single metal rack glommed onto the wii section as an afterthought (yet the gc game prices are still ridiculously high).

as far as the argument goes, i think you've got a good theory rob, but you've gotta remember 90% of the used games market is nostalgia. who's to say that halo and kotor won't be remembered by the adults of tomorrow with the same nostalgic charm that we view super mario and final fantasy with? xbox games aren't really old enough yet for a proper comparison.

give em ten years.

[Bojay1997]

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

You're comparing games that are only 5-6 years old and are still readily available in many cases new with games that are 20-25 years old at this point. People aren't nostalgic for Xbox yet just like they aren't nostalgic for Gamecube or PS2. Of course vintage games are going to command a premium if only because you can't find them at most stores that sell games. Heck, does Gamestop even sell anything older than PSX nowadays? Games like SMB or Zelda weren't worth much in the early to mid-90s loose and even now don't command huge premiums considering they cost $60-$70 new in mid-1980s dollars which is roughly what like around $85-$95 today? $19 for a Super Smash Bros. cartridge isn't a crazy amount of money considering that the game never sold for less than $40 new and most people paid $60 for it. It's also the first in the series, a cartridge (which appeals to many people with smaller kids) and you're talking about Ebay which attracts collectors and not necessarily the average swap meet or used game store buyer. Whether you want to admit it or not, with an installed base of 20 million or so systems worldwide, lots of people owned the original Xbox and chances are that 20 years from now, many of them will be seeking out the games they once owned or games they never could afford, just like people do today on the Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, etc...

[The 1 2 P]

I leave for one night and this is what I come back to??


You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

Funny you should say that because I had expected to post this today: both you and Boat obviously do NOT like the Xbox. I know it's your opinion, but no sane gamer could honestly say the Xbox(which popularized fps's, pioneered online gaming and brought it to the masses and made hard drives a requirement, along with having many of the best games of the last generation) is going to be a forgetable system unless they truely detest it. I can't stand the N64 controller but you won't hear me saying it's a forgetable/worthless system. So Boat should have titled this thread "Why I hate the Xbox" because we can all see beneath the thin veil he layed out.


2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

That still isn't making a very strong case for the Gamecube though. If you had to choose just one system last gen and you chose the GC over the Xbox, you would have missed out on the majority of the best mainstream games. That was my point.


3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

This is going to be fun. All those games were Xbox console exclusives for the last gen. I'm pretty sure I said that before. We aren't comparing consoles to pc's here. We are comparing console exclusives on the Xbox to console exclusives on the Gamecube. I'm fairly certain you can't play Kotor 1+2, Halo 2, Fable or Ninja Gaiden Black on any console but the Xbox(or 360). Yes the PS3 got Ninja Gaiden Stigma, but what did the Gamecube get? So you failed on that one too.


4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

Huh? The Xbox was the only last gen system that could regularly output in 720p(for the games that supported it). And wait a minute....did you just say the Turbo Grafx had better visuals than the Xbox:? I'll let everyone else handle that one for me.


5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.

Perhaps, but for every 1 cult hit on the Gamecube you could find 10 on the Xbox.


How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

He knows I love him. And he is a big Nintendo fan. Theres nothing wrong with that. I was just pointing out the obvious.


You're right, I can't predict the future, but that's what this thread is all about, so I'm just going along with it.

You missed my point. I'm not bashing the Xbox or blindly defending the GameCube. I'm just pointing out how one art/design philosophy has a wider, longer-lasting appeal than the other.

I feel you. I was just giving my point of view from a person who has all three last gen systems and enjoys the Xbox the most. But I also like my PS2 and GC.



Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%.

Subtract 6 of those fps's and add these:

Forza
Outrun 2
Hitman Contracts
Fatal Frame 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Crimson Skies

Problem solved.



I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

Let's keep it real. Goldeneye 007 was a phenomenal game.....in it's time. Today it's nearly unplayable compared to all the great fps's we get yearly. It hasn't aged well and can't hold anything on Riddick....except multiplayer:D But the new one is getting that.


Why do you think Joe charges so much for a common game like Super Mario World?

Because he needs the money obviously. I try to get as much for my games as possible too.

Anyway, Boat and Richter just want the Xbox to go away. I'm not sure why but it's their opinion to have. Maybe they are still upset that the new kid beat the Gamecube. It's fine(and normal) to not like a particular system but it helps to have a good argument for that stance, especially on these forums.

[esquire]

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

First, just because you do not like FPS's does not mean that others will not have the same disdain for soon to be classics like Halo, Gears of War and Resistance. Doom Collections and Unreal Anthology still sell today because they are still fun to play and there are good memories for gamers whom played them. Same could be said for Call of Duty 2 on the PC, which IMO is still the best WWII multiplayer shooter. Quake III is still played to this day by a strong base of gamers.

Second, applying your logic that gamers will not play an older version of the game when a newer version is out, games like the original Final Fantasy or Resident Evil should not still be popular when there are newer versions out. Yet these games continuously get re-published on each generation and people keep playing them. Again, I beleive your logic is flawed simply because you have a skewed opinion of FPS's.

Lastly, I don't necessarily believe that a majority of the games on your list have "mass appeal" as opposed those "dark, gritty, complex games" that you do not like on the XBOX. Joe Schmoe is not going to be seeking out Baten Kaitos, Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, Pikmin, Skies of Arcadia Legends, Star Fox Adventures, or Viewtiful Joe.

While I agree that games like UT which are frequently updated (as opposed to say a new version of Halo with a new single player campaign) like Madden may not hold their popularity over time, the same could be said of practically every Mario Party or Mario Sport game on each successive console of the future.

Here are some very good XBOX games that people will continue to play on into the future:

Halo & Halo II
Fable
Jade Empire
SW: KOTOR & KOTOR II
Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance II
Crimson Skies: The Road to Revenge
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Otogi
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Psychonauts

[megasdkirby]

I also have to disagree: the Xbox will be remembered for many reasons. It was Microsoft's first actual video game console, it brought many popular games, like Halo (and to think, I never liked Halo...), improved online gaming, provided HDD support, as well as many other features.

For me, I would think the GameCube is the console that won't have fond memories by many. I love the console, and it's an excellent piece of hardware, but I believe that, while it won't be forgotten, it won't be fondly remembered as well.

IMO

[bangtango]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not. Since the comparison is out there, I'll bite. Might as well come right out and say I am an Xbox fanboy.

There are three games that I notice on lists meant to "defend" or "sell" the Gamecube.

-Luigi's Mansion
-Super Mario Sunshine
-Legend of Zelda: Windwaker

Here's what I think.

-Luigi's Mansion can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off, if you know what I mean.

-Super Mario Sunshine may still be fun in places but it ain't a classic and frankly, it has to be seriously considered as one of the worst "Real" Mario games (not counting spinoff crap or the games with lead characters other than Mario).

-Zelda Windwaker may also be fun in places but it isn't anywhere near the top of the Zelda series.


Random Musings

About the Xbox:
-The hard drive, ability to play dvd's and play/burn/rip cd's is useful. Put an original Xbox in Goodwill five years from now and place it next to a Gamecube system. Price both at $10. You'll see which one sells quicker.

As for the Gamecube's Gameboy player, so what? I don't buy Gameboy games to play them on tv, that is like putting a screen door on a battleship. I buy Gameboy games to play them on the go.

[Rob2600]

Luigi's Mansion can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off

You're right, Luigi's Mansion was a fun, polished, yet shallow game.

Instead of Halo vs. Luigi's Mansion, I think a better comparison of launch games would be Halo vs. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader.

[The 1 2 P]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not.

It was just for comparison sake because Rob and Richter brought it up. I actually like the Gamecube. I have good games for it and I'm still collecting for it. But it doesn't get played much because I have an Xbox(that I can play with other people online) and a PS2(so many good games I have to cetch up to). So I definitely do NOT hate the Gamecube(or Nintendo) but I'm pretty sure that in the future it will be the least desirable console from the last gen. And unlike my buddy Richter, I'm not saying that as someone who hates Nintendo and the Gamecube. I'm saying that as a gamer/Nintendo fan/person of strong common sense. The Xbox hasn't been supported by Microsoft(with new games) since late 2005 and here we are over three years later and I can still play all of it's games online with people all around the world. That won't end anytime soon and it's yet another reason why this system will never be forgotten in our lifetime.

[Rob2600]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not.


Rob and Richter brought it up.

Actually, Boatofcar brought it up in the original post:


the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

[josekortez]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

[otaku]

I can see the comparisons to less successful systems. However I enjoyed mine and have fond memories. I'm more worried about the 360 even though it has quality games, because the hardware is so prone to failure

[Bojay1997]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

None of the above. Those were systems which never enjoyed mass success or large libraries. The Xbox lasted for five years and had hundreds and hundreds of exclusive releases, plus the best version of numerous multi-platform titles. Not only that, but it was followed up by an even more successful console which was mostly backwards compatible with it.

[Rob2600]

None of the above. Those were systems which never enjoyed mass success or large libraries. The Xbox lasted for five years

I agree, although technically the Xbox was only in production for four years (2001-2005), not five.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

As others have said, none of these systems are apt comparisons. The XBOX was a highly influential system with a large library.

[jdc]

Man, I've been on an Xbox tear lately. I've bought 63 Xbox games in the last two months. For some insane reason, the console's been giving me a huge case of the warm n' fuzzies. That and the fact that everyone and their dog had used Xbox games on for super low Christmas prices this season. It's funny, but the "grossly gargantuan" Xbox doesn't seem so huge when it's parked next to my PS3. They BOTH gang up to make the Cube look ridiculously teeny.

We play all consoles equally in this house. While I sit upstairs typing this in the office, my son is downstairs, surrounded by various consoles, playing Mario Strikers on the teeny Cube.

[ProgrammingAce]

I agree, although technically the Xbox was only in production for four years (2001-2005), not five.

Just to be a smart ass, i have an xbox with the retail casing from December 2000...

[Rob2600]

Just to be a smart ass, i have an xbox with the retail casing from December 2000...

Okay, the Xbox was only supported for four years (2001-2005), not five. :)

[The 1 2 P]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

Thats a good question. It obviously couldn't be compared to those failed systems you mentioned though. I use to think of it as a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast but it has become way more popular and successful than the Dreamcast. But so far thats the closest I can think of.

[ProgrammingAce]

Thats a good question. It obviously couldn't be compared to those failed systems you mentioned though. I use to think of it as a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast but it has become way more popular and successful than the Dreamcast. But so far thats the closest I can think of.

It's a literal successor to the dreamcast, Sega helped engineer the Xbox1.

[heybtbm]

Boy, did the original premise of this thread get twisted or what? Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a mass trolling attempt so roundly rejected as this one...lol. The discussion started out so rational and respectful too. Oh well. The Nintendo Mafia brought their "B" game this time. I guess there's no hate like Xbox hate.

It's a shame they turned the argument into fan-boy hysterics, because I agree with them in part. I think the Xbox was the weakest link of the last generation. Then again...I realize that this is only my opinion and is based on my general non-interest over the original Xbox (not to mention 0 JRPG's). The sales numbers would indicate otherwise (as well as my beloved Gamecube being the real loser).

[bangtango]

Lumping the Xbox in with the 3DO, CD-i and Jaguar is mind numbing.

See, the difference is that the 3DO, CD-i and Jaguar are all widely regarded by casual gamers, bloggers and gaming media as not only a failure but a complete joke. Those three systems may not be seen as a joke by everybody here or on Atari Age but that site and this site make up such a small percentage of the public opinion.

As for the Xbox, people can argue all they want about whether or not the system failed (I don't think it did). Even if someone can present a solid case that the Xbox DID fail, there is nobody out there who can call the Xbox a "joke" and maintain any credibility. Point being, the Xbox is in no way, shape or form widely regarded as a joke to most people like the 3DO, CD-i or Jaguar are.

Furthermore, regardless of where the system placed/finished in the last gen, there are enough people out there who still own and play the first Xbox that this will never be the case.

[The Shawn]

To be honest, the only system Iv'e had hooked up in the last 3 months is my original x-box.

Bye the way, I don't think Twilight Princess will be remembered half as fondly as Morrowind.:hail:

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Bye the way, I don't think Twilight Princess will be remembered half as fondly as Morrowind.

Amen. And I've played both.

[Push Upstairs]

It's a literal successor to the dreamcast, Sega helped engineer the Xbox1.

They did?

What aspect?

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

[Nature Boy]

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

You need proof to validate a feeling? Zuh?

I'm sure for some people it was their adopted Sega system. Not me. I went from being a N64/PS1 owner to being a GC/Xbox/PS2 owner. I did acquire a Dreamcast somewhere in that time period but only after it was already dead.

(The other 5 systems mentioned I was actively purchasing games while they were still being produced. I never bought one Dreamcast game until after the system was no longer being supported).


So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

Well, you can't compare it to Jag, CDi, or 3DO IMO because none of those machines had a successor. XB1 has the 360, and at least one more future brother in the works.

The Dreamcast doesn't work either, because Sega was fighting the results of the Saturn generation. MS didn't have any such baggage.

I wouldn't try to compare it to anything to be honest. It's a base-line for future comparisons maybe.

[scooterb23]

It's clear to my that if you need to compare the XBox to anything...it's a mid 80's Volvo.

It's boxy, but it's good.

[ProgrammingAce]

They did?

What aspect?

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

Sega wanted to use the xbox hardware for their arcade division. They partnered with Microsoft to develop the hardware. Somewhere i wrote a several page article detailing the whole endeavor.

Here's a prototype xbox with the Chihiro connector still intact. Even on the final board design, you can see the space left behind when the removed the connector.
http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto(11).jpg

[megasdkirby]

-[quote]Luigi's Mansion[/I] can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off, if you know what I mean.

I personally despise Halo, as it's nothing more than a run of the mill FPS. Not that it's a bad game, just don't see what the fuss is about. I did like Luigi's Mansion much more, though it was lacking and it's a simple game.


-Zelda Windwaker may also be fun in places but it isn't anywhere near the top of the Zelda series.

Gotta agree. I thought the game had charm, but overall there was something of a miss...



As for the Gamecube's Gameboy player, so what? I don't buy Gameboy games to play them on tv, that is like putting a screen door on a battleship. I buy Gameboy games to play them on the go.

Dunno about that one. I personally liked the player, as it offered ways to play GBA games on the TV. The Super Gameboy had more charm, IMO, but the GBA player is excellent in it's own right. I found some games played better on the GBP than on the GBA.

But thats me anyway.

[The 1 2 P]

Boy, did the original premise of this thread get twisted or what? Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a mass trolling attempt so roundly rejected as this one...lol. The discussion started out so rational and respectful too. Oh well.

I actually like the direction this thread has taken. Boat gave his opinion and then everyone else chimed in with their opinions. Some of us are more passionate about our opinions than others. I've even went several augumentative rounds with a few people in here but that doesn't mean we respect each other any less. We're just gamers being gamers:)

[Push Upstairs]

Sega wanted to use the xbox hardware for their arcade division. They partnered with Microsoft to develop the hardware. Somewhere i wrote a several page article detailing the whole endeavor.

Here's a prototype xbox with the Chihiro connector still intact. Even on the final board design, you can see the space left behind when the removed the connector.
http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto(11).jpg (http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto%2811%29.jpg)

So the Chihiro was planned before the initial release of the XBOX?

I never dug into the history of the XBOX to find out about its origins.

[Greg2600]

Microsoft worked for two years with SEGA to make Windows CE the OS on the Dreamcast, also using DirectX. That was in 1998. I have found a few articles about this:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/May98/Segagmpr.mspx
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E5D91338F93BA15756C0A96E9582 60

In 2003, Microsoft announced they were looking to use the XBOX as the new platform for SEGA arcade machines. (Chihiro)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/07/microsoft_preps_xbox_for_arcades/

Therefore, the Xbox existed before Chihiro, because it WAS Chihiro. SEGA, from my googling, did not develop the XBOX one bit. The XBOX runs a custom OS that interfaces with DirectX 8.1. It's highly possible that Microsoft adapted some of what it did on the DC to the XBox. But Windows CE was a disaster.

[ProgrammingAce]

I don't know what to tell you... Sega engineers helped microsoft design the Xbox hardware. The xbox with the Chihiro connector was manufacturered in February of 2001, 9 months before the console released.

The internal Test Harness application Microsoft used from March 2001 - November 2001 had sega assets, including logos: http://gamerhistory.com/games/XDK3910.html

The test harness was used to stress test the hardware during development. The copy used in those photos was taken straight out of Microsoft's hardware testing labs.

The relationship between Sega and Microsoft is something that was considered a trade secret, which is why you don't see much (any?) info on it. Why do you think Peter Moore left Sega and joined Microsoft so quickly? How do you think Microsoft developed a complete console from concept to delivery in 11 months?

My understanding is that there was a small group of engineers from sega that went to the Microsoft campus and acted as advisers. Part of that same agreement is the reason the early Sega titles were Xbox only. Sega disolved the partnership because of the poor sales of their xbox games.

You don't really have to believe me, i could just be some bum living on the streets who pretends to work for microsoft...

[Greg2600]

I take your word for it. Even so, I don't know if I want to consider the XBox a descendant of the Dreamcast or a SEGA system. Far far less than the SNES-CD Sony designed is a precursor to the Playstation. Whatever SEGA gave them, the end result was a different piece of hardware than the Dreamcast. Even your description only sounds like the SEGA people cleaned up the mess for them. Not enough in my book to call it a SEGA system or give SEGA a ton of credit.

[Phénix]

For the moment it's very hard to say for me. There are a couple of games that I absolutely love, the the rest is garbage (for me at least). I loved :
Fable
Morrowind
Kotor 1 / 2 (I'm currently playing Kotor 2)
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Arx Fatalis
Doom 3
Ninja Gaiden Black

I played so many hours on these games ! And in many years they will be as good as now.

But if I compare the number of XBox games I own to those I own on Gamecube, PS2 and Wii games, I don't have a lot of XBox games, and I don't plan on buying other XBox games. There is still many games on PS2 that I want, and Gamecube also.

This reminds me of the N64 ... Just a couple of very good games ! I have like less than 10 N64 games and that's it, the rest doesn't interest me.

[The 1 2 P]

Kotor 1 / 2 (I'm currently playing Kotor 2)

Both are awesome games. I'm trying to find the Japanese import versions so I have another excuse to play thru them again.


I don't have a lot of XBox games, and I don't plan on buying other XBox games.

You're in luck. Gamestop/EB is about to severly discount ALL their Xbox games to try and clear them out for the newer gen stuff. So you will be able to get the majority of Xbox games for $2-8 a piece. If theres ever been any Xbox games you wanted to try--now would be the best time to get them on the cheap.

[TheGam3r]

The XBOX Will be well remembered With Titles Like:

-Halo
-Halo 2
-Star Wars:KOTOR
-GTA:San Andreas
-Project gotham Racing 1 And 2
-Jet set radio future
-SEGA GT 2002
-Panzer Dragoon Otra
-Ninja Gaiden and ninja gaiden Black
-Chornicles of riddick
-Dead or alive 3
-Metal Slug 3
-ToeJam And Earl 3
-The Simpsons:Hit and Run
-Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2X-3-4
-Max Payne
-007:Nightfire
-Splinter Cell

Look At all my favorite XBOX games.This system will be remembered fondly

[hellfire]

lol they will all break

[TheDomesticInstitution]

lol they will all break

You're smart.

[Cobra Commander]

that is like putting a screen door on a battleship..
Screen door on submarine ya' dork....

[Astrocade]

I believe ten years down the road the X-Box will be remembered fondly, but not in the same light as the PS2. The average non-hardcore enthusiast is more likely to have had a PS2 sitting in their living room than the X-Box, and the GC will probably be remembered last.

I've always felt that the X-Box was a better system, and some of the things that it introduced that we take for granted today are not so easily noticed while hindsight is not yet to our advantage. Being the Dreamcast enthusiast that I am, I feel the X-Box is probably the closest thing to a Dreamcast 2 we'll ever see.

The PS2 may have a bigger library, but that doesn't mean the games were better. Of all the titles that received a multi console release, the X-Box version always looked and played better to me. The graphics do sometimes have less color depth than the other consoles, but the clarity is unmatched. I'd rather have Sub Zero's outfit be an ever-so-slight lighter shade of blue than to put up with jerky, polygonal out of frame animation with a deeper palette.

There's no argument as to which system was the most powerful, the guys that claim that the PS2 or the GC were technologically superior are living in some kind of backwards dreamworld. I also don't get the argument that the X-Box is prone to failure- to me it's the most bulletproof system of that generation. I couldn't tell you how many guys I've known that have gone through more than one PS2, while I know of absolutely no one that has killed an X-Box. I myself have gone through two Slims, which is astonishing for someone that logged as little hours on it that I did. The fact that the X-Box was a COMPANY LAUNCH CONSOLE is even more impressive- Sony's had ten years and a previous console to get it right, Microsoft had eleven months. If they would attack their 360 with the same ethic then I would maybe be tempted to go get one. I also despise the crass way that Microsoft completely dropped it like a hot potato when the 360 was announced- it was kind of like being slapped in the face. "So you like our X-Box, huh? Well FUCK YOU! No more games bitch! Better upgrade so you won't be a loser!" That is one thing I think will bug some people down the road moreso than it does now.

The PS2 will also have a larger pool of players to draw remembrances from. The little kids that started playing it when it first came out are teens now. The X-Box was around for what, five years? A lot of players completely skimmed over the X-Box, going straight from the PS2 over to the 360.

The size of the system is not a put off to most players. I personally like a system that looks like it wants to eat your other consoles. I also don't feel like I'm handling a fragile toy like I do when I'm looking at my GC or Slim. It looks like what it is- a dedicated gaming console. One that you can use to play just about every preceding generations games on via emulation. There's a large number of guys that hold onto their Boxes just because they have so many Roms downloaded onto it. PS2 hacking never caught on simply because it was soooo easy to do on the X-Box compared to the PS2, much like the DC before it.

The controllers are some of the best ever made for a system. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Having giant ape hands, I much prefer the original "Duke" to just about anything in the last fifteen years. The "S" revision is even better. Take that, Dualshock!

One more thing- an internal HD and four controller ports. Fuck your memory cards and stingy two ports, PS2. I actually have more than one friend that wants to play From Russia With Love multiplayer, and I don't want to spend forty dollars on a multitap adapter because you're the first console in years to exclude four ports. Likewise, I don't want to have to run down to Gamestop and shell out twenty bucks on a new memory card every six months. I got everything I need in this big black box that wants to crush you.

One thing I can fault the X- Box for is that you can't play DVD's right out of the box like you could the PS2. But by the time the X-Box came out you could buy a DVD player for twenty bucks at Wal-Mart, so it's not like you really needed one anyway. I don't want a multimedia center either, I want a frigging console that plays games. If I want to watch a movie, I'll do that on the device that it was intended to be used for, thank you. (<<< Insert arrogant Comic Book Guy voice here)

Notice I've been pretty silent about the Gamecube thus far, as it's in its own class. Like ALL major Nintendo consoles, it will be fondly remembered simply BECAUSE it's a Nintendo product. Certain games on the N64 that had a release on other consoles played much better on the other consoles, but everybody remembers the N64 version. Why? Because it's Nintendo! Same thing last gen applies to this gen- it's not a question of GC, XB, or PS2, it's a bout between Sony and Microsoft. Right now, the Wii is off in its own little world while the PS3 and the 360 duke it out.

So between the two, I believe that the PS2 will be the most fondly remembered, possibly for none of the right reasons. I can tell you what I've had the most enjoyment out of between the three, as I'm sure a lot of other people can as well.

It's just like the NES and the Sega Master System, the Master System was hands down the better console, but how many of us are there that rank it as their favorite console compared to the NES? I had both, and I played the NES all day, every day. It was just more enjoyable.

We're busy arguing over which is the better system, who had the best games, whether Riddick was better than Goldeneye, etc. None of that matters a decade from now, when we'll be remembering what we had the most fun playing. :rocker:

[Solertia]

I agree, the Xbox is kindof unmemorable for me, but look where Microsoft is now, Xbox 360 is HUEG!

At least they got it right the second time around. :)

[Daltone]

The Xbox , whilst not bad for its time, really didn't have the impact of the PS2 or the Mario factor of the Cube. Whilst I enjoyed the games on the Xbox a hell than I did than half the shit I played on the Cube, ultimately I couldn't help shake the feeling that the thing was a PC in a slightly smaller box.

[ReaXan]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.
But now to the Xbox….where to begin
Well the Xbox controllers are probably the worst ergonomically designed in the history of modern gaming. Even the smaller ones are bulky and uncomfortable to use for fighting games. The sad thing is that 3rd party designers didn’t even bother redesigning the controller into something more comfortable(The button placement on the XBox blows).
The console itself is ugly as heck, the whole green/black theme is overdone to the extreme on the inside and out of the system (luckily the 360 toned down the green and included some more white on the GUI).
The Xbox only had one killer app and that was Halo. Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.
The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same except for a few like San Andreas where it looked more polished because of the extra RAM the Xbox had. There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.
Xbox Live was cool but wasn’t adopted by the masses until the 360.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Why on earth would you force people to buy a remote to use the DVD Player? That one aspect pissed me off more than anything. With the PS2 you could use a controller and navigate the menus. I don’t mind Microsoft wanting to increase profits but those kind of little things piss off the consumer especially when the competition doesn’t make you buy a remote kit.
On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.

The XBox I swear has some kind of curse on it where you could never get your money's worth investing in it and that trend still continues to this day. The XBox had nothing charming about it compared to the PS2 and even the Gamecube.

[Push Upstairs]

So I can pay $20 *once* to watch DVD's on an Xbox, or I can pay $25 to save my games on a memory card, only to buy more when that fills up.

[Bojay1997]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.
But now to the Xbox….where to begin
Well the Xbox controllers are probably the worst ergonomically designed in the history of modern gaming. Even the smaller ones are bulky and uncomfortable to use for fighting games. The sad thing is that 3rd party designers didn’t even bother redesigning the controller into something more comfortable(The button placement on the XBox blows).
The console itself is ugly as heck, the whole green/black theme is overdone to the extreme on the inside and out of the system (luckily the 360 toned down the green and included some more white on the GUI).
The Xbox only had one killer app and that was Halo. Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.
The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same except for a few like San Andreas where it looked more polished because of the extra RAM the Xbox had. There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.
Xbox Live was cool but wasn’t adopted by the masses until the 360.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Why on earth would you force people to buy a remote to use the DVD Player? That one aspect pissed me off more than anything. With the PS2 you could use a controller and navigate the menus. I don’t mind Microsoft wanting to increase profits but those kind of little things piss off the consumer especially when the competition doesn’t make you buy a remote kit.
On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.

The XBox I swear has some kind of curse on it where you could never get your money's worth investing in it and that trend still continues to this day. The XBox had nothing charming about it compared to the PS2 and even the Gamecube.

If you can't tell the difference in detail between Xbox and PS2 games, let alone the speed at which a character can move within a 3D environment, there is something seriously wrong with you or maybe your TV. As outlined in many posts above, there are tons of Xbox exclusive games, including both Halo and Halo 2, Dead or Alive 3, KOTOR 1 and 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc...as well as dozens and dozens of others. I personally love the Xbox controller, both the large Duke and the later S version. It is very similar to the feel of the Dreamcast controller and just works perfectly for FPS games. As for the DVD issue, by 2001 when the Xbox came out, DVD players were pretty common in many households in the US and Microsoft ultimately decided to cut the cost of the license fee out of the base console and leave it as an option for those who wanted it. I personally can't imagine ever using any console as a DVD player, so it didn't really bother me.

[Rob2600]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.

Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?

[ReaXan]

So I can pay $20 *once* to watch DVD's on an Xbox, or I can pay $25 to save my games on a memory card, only to buy more when that fills up.

Solid argument I will give you that one



If you can't tell the difference in detail between Xbox and PS2 games, let alone the speed at which a character can move within a 3D environment, there is something seriously wrong with you or maybe your TV.

I don’t remember mentioning anything about game speed. I know the Xbox is technologically better than the PS2 but it isn’t some mind blowing difference


As outlined in many posts above, there are tons of Xbox exclusive games, including both Halo and Halo 2, Dead or Alive 3, KOTOR 1 and 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc...as well as dozens and dozens of others.

While this is correct the PS2 still had more exclusive games on it then the Xbox, the Xbox would also usually get a later release for some games than the PS2 or none at all.


I personally love the Xbox controller, both the large Duke and the later S version. It is very similar to the feel of the Dreamcast controller and just works perfectly for FPS games.

You in a small minority of people who like the Small Xbox controller let alone the Duke. The Xbox controller was not in the same league as the Dreamcast controller and should not be mentioned in the same breath. Even the Gamecube controller was much better


I personally can't imagine ever using any console as a DVD player, so it didn't really bother me.

So you mean to tell me you prefer the hassle of switching between a DVD player and say a XBOX360 when the 360 can play DVD’s? Whatever rocks your boat I guess


Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?

While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

[Rob2600]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.


Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?


While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

I think N64 games like Wave Race 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Rayman 2, Sin and Punishment, etc. have held up quite well.

[Bojay1997]

Solid argument I will give you that one




I don’t remember mentioning anything about game speed. I know the Xbox is technologically better than the PS2 but it isn’t some mind blowing difference



While this is correct the PS2 still had more exclusive games on it then the Xbox, the Xbox would also usually get a later release for some games than the PS2 or none at all.



You in a small minority of people who like the Small Xbox controller let alone the Duke. The Xbox controller was not in the same league as the Dreamcast controller and should not be mentioned in the same breath. Even the Gamecube controller was much better



So you mean to tell me you prefer the hassle of switching between a DVD player and say a XBOX360 when the 360 can play DVD’s? Whatever rocks your boat I guess



While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

Actually, to someone who plays lots of FPS games, the Xbox was a mind-blowing difference over the PS2. In fact, I can't stand a single FPS on the PS2 because it just can't pull them off. I also defy you to point to a single example of a multiplatform game that was better on the PS2 than the Xbox. While the PS2 might have had a larger library and probably more exclusives, I don't think it necessarily had more great games than the Xbox. I think they both had a handful of really great games and a number of good ones.

I think you're wrong on the controller issue. I have lots of friends that love the original Xbox controller. Of course, I'm 6'1" with fairly big hands and many of my friends are pretty big guys, so I suppose it might be different if I was a little guy.

I have a nice Blu Ray player and home theater system attached to my 42" LCD Flat Panel. I have no interest in using a game console to play movies. It puts extra wear on the console and doesn't perform at the same level as a stand alone player. In the Xbox days, I owned several DVD players and I had zero interest in using either my PS2 or Xbox for playing movies. I suspect most people felt the same way as other than Japan, I don't think any major survey ever showed that a significant number of people in the US were using the PS2 or Xbox as their primary DVD players.

Just because you don't like the Xbox or the N64 doesn't have anything to do with the topic of this thread. Obviously, lots of us have good memories of both systems and will pass those memories along to the next generation of collectors. Heck, the millions of people who spent hours playing Halo and Halo 2 will guarantee that the Xbox maintains a prominent place in the history of consoles whether you like it or not.

[backguard]

speaking of controllers - i found a (new) "limited release japanesse style" xbox controller the other day. apparently it was released between the complaints about controller size and the official switch to smaller controllers.

but that first controller was PAINFUL to use after even 20 minutes. i do have small hands though.

[Astrocade]

On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.


The reason that Gamestop (and I'm no Gamestop fan at all) still charges fifty dollars for a console that has been dead for over two years should tell you something. They sell Gamecubes for thirty dollars and PS2's for forty- and the PS2 is still a "current" console! A lot of people that own a 360 are keeping their original Xbox- they're not winding up being thrown out. That has to due with a lot of different issues, from people that have sot mods and massive game libraries downloaded, or emulators, etc; or the guys that realize some of their old games will not play on the 360. Original Xboxes still sell for a premium price because people are willing to pay it. The people that want an X Box don't have twenty million used consoles floating around like people looking to buy a PS2 or a GC.

One reason that you may have trouble selling your console on Craigslist may be the price. How much are you asking for it? Nobody is going to pay you anything near what Gamestop charges for a used X Box. If you're selling your X Box for forty five dollars, and Gamestop is selling one for fifty, who's going to risk saving five dollars by buying an X Box from some stranger that they have to meet up with some where and hope that the system works? Gamestop guarantees that the console is going to work, and if not you get your money back or an exchange. Can you offer the same thing?

If I'm buying something on Craigslist, I'm not going to put more money into it than I can afford to lose. I buy everything with the understanding that it's probably not going to work. That way, if I get ripped off I'm not going to punch a brick wall.

If you're selling a console on Craigslist, you have to price it so low that someone wouldn't consider trying to get it from a store. Or if it's a classic, rare system you can pretty much price it how you want. For an example: Yesterday I bought a Gamecube, two wired controllers, one Wavebird wireless, and Mario Kart Double Dash for twenty dollars. The guy said that he's had it on Craigslist off and on for a year. I asked him why so long and he said that he originally priced it at 100.00. Gradually he dropped it down to 20 bucks and I was the first person to contact him. I told him that I was mainly buying it for the Wavebird and MK: DD, so the console was negligible. He probably would have made more money splitting up the goods. But even at twenty bucks, what if none of the stuff worked? The controllers and the game work fine, but I haven't tested the console yet. He didn't throw in the AV cable anyway so if I didn't have a GC already I'd have no way of testing it. That's the trap you walk into buying consoles from guys that want to meet up with you in the mall parking lot- you're taking a gamble.

As to why you weren't able to sell your X Box on here, we're a video gaming community. Everybody here that wants an X Box already owns one. If it was a Neo Geo or a Fairchild, you would have better luck selling it here than you would on Craigslist, where it wouldn't be appreciated outside of a non-gaming crowd. If you're selling a common console that has to be shipped, you would do better selling it locally to a casual gaming crowd.

There are "soft" and "hard" sells. A thirty dollar X Box on Craigslist with a ton of games is a "soft" sell. A fifty dollar X Box with a bunch of games is a "hard" sell.

[The 1 2 P]

Since several others have already deflowered the majority of your augument I'm only going to tackle these few things.


Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.

Yeah, I totally loved the PS2 versions of Farcry, Star Wars: Kotor 1-2, Chronicles of Riddick, Fable, Jet Set Future, Otogi, Ninja Gaiden and the other 100+ exclusives. But those PS2 versions must be SUPER rare because I've never seen them.


The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same

They looked the same? Then how come in the PS2 version of the Blade 2 game Blade didn't wear his trench coat during game play like he did in the Xbox version? Oh I remember, because the PS2 wasn't powerful enough to display a trench coat on him. As an interesting side note, did you know that Doom 3, Farcry, Half-Life and Chronicles of Riddick(among a few others) were all suppose to be multiplatform games too? I mean, why wouldn't you won't to be on the console leading PS2? So what happened and why didn't they have PS2 ports? Um....because the PS2 wasn't strong enough to handle ANY of them. It's that simple.


There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.

And once again we see an example of why drugs should not be legalized, because they make you say nonsensical stuff like that. Seriously though, 90% of this thread is filled with reasons you should buy an Xbox. The other 10% are common sense if you are a true gamer.