DP MYTHBUSTERS : Blowing in NES Cartridges

[Ed Oscuro]

The thing is, and it's been supported by other members in this thread and elsewhere, is that there was, and still are a very large faction of NES users out there that DON'T KNOW/DON'T BELIEVE that's what happens when you blow onto an NES cartridge.
Good for them. They're morons.

Yes, that goes for the people here and elsewhere who do this despite being told otherwise - you know who you are :P

Of course, many members here swear by erasers to clean NES carts, instead of using 99% isopropyl alcohol like they're supposed to. A related issue, that's all.


Yes, WE believe it to be true ... but some people that I meet don't.
You don't see me sacrificing SMB/DH carts because I loose sleep over it (I don't). Much more productive to challenge people directly and tell them the score.


I'm sorry if I'm not properly representing the quality/integrity of the Mythbusters brand via my scientific method...I thought that it was pretty obvious that I was just trying to be cute/clever with that association.
I never asked to be thanked for pointing out an important difference between what they do and what you're doing because I thought it'd help you, but likewise I don't have anything invested in their brand, so relax!


Again, this is just for fun. I'm really not sure what the big deal is.
Strange idea of fun you have. ;)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

So, where does this misconception that I'm over-reacting/freaking out/and/or losing sleep over this thing come from?

[MachineGex]

Frankie, most of us think the idea is great and get the fact you are just doing this for fun. I for one have and will follow your progress to see what you find.

I am sure quite a few people have thought about doing this kind of experiment. I am glad you had the "will" to do it and thanks for sharing it with us.

As for this not being a Mythbuster type experiment, who cares? I have seen more plenty of Mythbuster's episodes to know they are far from scientific. They mostly do experiments for fun and that is what this is about. I do remember them doing an experiment just like this: The planting growing myth(with different music).

[blue lander]

I think it's a good idea too, although I don't think visually inspecting the connector after 30 days is going to prove much. A multimeter or ohm meter would be a lot more definitive.

[5thman]

Even if the experiment doesn't show much in the end, it's still a good topic to bring up, especially for collectors. I collect nes games and I try to take very good care of them.

I dunno how knowledgeable you or the others are about how to properly clean nes cartridges, but does anyone here recommend against using 409? That's what I've used for the last year and it cleans them right up (I spray a little onto a dish towel, not the game itself).

[c0ldb33r]

I think it's a good idea too, although I don't think visually inspecting the connector after 30 days is going to prove much. A multimeter or ohm meter would be a lot more definitive.
Good idea - this would allow you to quantify the results. Too bad though that it wasn't tested with a multimeter at the beginning of the experiment. In future this would be an awesome addition.

[Harkunan]

You know what the secret is about "blowing" and I don't want to say it since it is a horrible secret which I do not commit to:monkey:

While yes I do agree that blowing directly on a cart will make saliva get on it and thus sed damage the cart but not as much as alcohol.

However the thing is....

[blue lander]

Good idea - this would allow you to quantify the results. Too bad though that it wasn't tested with a multimeter at the beginning of the experiment. In future this would be an awesome addition.

Another interesting experiment would be to use a multimeter to test to see if blowing on a cartridge DOES improve the connection on a dirty cart. Or does it just seem that way?

[niolani]

I rarely blow into cardtridges. I used to do it a lot when I was young, until a guy at a video games store told me that I could damage the game.

I'm using rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs, since. Besides, I'm always keeping a small bottle filled with rubbing alcohol and swabs, in my games cupboard.

I like to take good care of my games, there's dust cover on all of them.

I'm a real game geek!

[blue lander]

Of course, many members here swear by erasers to clean NES carts, instead of using 99% isopropyl alcohol like they're supposed to. A related issue, that's all.



I've had several NES cartridges that wouldn't play no matter how many times I scrubbed them with alcohol. Only thing that worked was a nice hard pencil eraser.

On a related note, I know when you clean metal with the kind of rubbing alcohol you get at the drug store, it leaves a fine sticky residue that tends to accumulate crap quicker than before. Is that less of an issue with 99% isopropyl alcohol?

[niolani]

I've had several NES cartridges that wouldn't play no matter how many times I scrubbed them with alcohol. Only thing that worked was a nice hard pencil eraser.

On a related note, I know when you clean metal with the kind of rubbing alcohol you get at the drug store, it leaves a fine sticky residue that tends to accumulate crap quicker than before. Is that less of an issue with 99% isopropyl alcohol?

I also heard that metal polish was very good to clean cartridge but, you'll have to open it, in order to clean it properly.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've had several NES cartridges that wouldn't play no matter how many times I scrubbed them with alcohol. Only thing that worked was a nice hard pencil eraser.

On a related note, I know when you clean metal with the kind of rubbing alcohol you get at the drug store, it leaves a fine sticky residue that tends to accumulate crap quicker than before. Is that less of an issue with 99% isopropyl alcohol?

Sticky?

The only time that alcohol would leave a "sticky" residue is if it causes some type of glue that's already present there to become solvent again and then dry again to a tacky state.

[blue lander]

Sticky?

The only time that alcohol would leave a "sticky" residue is if it causes some type of glue that's already present there to become solvent again and then dry again to a tacky state.

It all depends on temperature. At as high as 75 degrees rubbing alcohol leaves a small amount of residue, which dust and whatnot loves to stick to.

[OMF2097]

I generally use PCB/electronics cleaner, eraser, swabs, and compressed air to clean out my MVS carts when they get the 'Yaton" dirt treatment. I would think that the same method would work well with NES carts (sans outer covering of course). I've seen people go as far as running PCB's through dishwashers without batteries attached and without soap.

[blue lander]

Now that I think about it, old MVS cartridges do tend to exhibit the same kinds of errors that NES cartridges do. Garbled graphics, games that only work half the time, etc. I wonder if it's because they're both exposed to dirty environments, or if it's because the connector pins in both systems get bent back easily.

Before I found out you could order replacement NES 72 pin connectors online, I used to manually bend the pins up with a paperclip, and then slide a small rubber band underneath it so they couldn't bend back as easily. That increased my NES's reliability far more than any rubbing alcohol or blowing.

[jb143]

Cool experiment. To those who think the Mythbusters don't do stuff like this...they do all the time(5 second rule anyone) And speaking of Mythbusters, remember the salsa jail cell escape? Electric current might speed up the reaction after all.

I'm wondering if the people who think the blowing is just a way to remove and reset the cartrige actually had an NES??? Or maybe they're from a dry climate or something? I remember trying to reposition cartriges what seemed like hundreds of times at all different angles and then finally blowing in it to have it immediatly work like a charm. Strange though that I can't recall where I learned of this technique yet everyone seems to know it.

[Gentlegamer]

Needs pics of the hot girl from MB blowing . . . into the carts.

[remowilliams]

MVS carts when they get the 'Yaton" dirt treatment.

LOL at the "Yaton" treatment!

I take those carts and soak the cases. Sometimes removing the labels and having to nearly boil them. And I've had to literally wash a few PCBs too.

[Ed Oscuro]

To those who think the Mythbusters don't do stuff like this...they do all the time(5 second rule anyone)
If you're replying to me you misunderstood me. Mythbusters gets a very obvious result in a relatively quick period of time because bacteria doesn't take long to grow in a culture.

Now, if Frankie uses a multimeter (which may or may not be useful depending where you put the 'trodes; after all only parts of the surface of a contact will be pitted and corroded) that'd put it in line with, say, the bathtub electrocution experiment. Otherwise, though, this was just going to be "eyeballing it."

Anyhow, some random thoughts:

Blue Lander, I can't imagine the isopropyl is leaving a noticable residue. Most likely you aren't cleaning it enough to clear off all the dirt - I find I have to use a few q-tips per side of a dirty NES cartridge to get it somewhat clean. Other possibilities are applying it with something that's not clean (I bet you a washcloth will leave some garbage behind) or not using actual 99% isopropyl.

Washing a PCB can be safe so long as you are able to get everything dry - which is actually harder than it sounds as many chips are socketed or whatnot. I have done with with a number of PCBs, from Genesis 2 mainboards to a few arcade boards. I haven't washed anything in a dishwasher though - all by hand under a faucet with no soap. It tends to leave waterspots but it's much better than having lots of dirt all over stuff.

Of course there are lots of potential pitfalls - damaging the PCB with heat at any point in the process, from washing it to blow-drying it, is a big possibility.

The key reason washing PCBs is considered "safe" by many while blowing on NES cartridges isn't is that you must repeatedly blow on a NES cartridge and you don't clear off the moisture.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm sorry, but I've never heard that applying water in any capacity to circuit boards is safe under any circumstances.

I'm well aware that freshly created silicon circuit boards (pre-component solder) come out of an initial "rinse bath" ... but that water is HIGHLY filtered, sterilized and deionized.

"Washing" circuit boards under tap water is not the same thing, and can't possibly be a reccomended process.

[remowilliams]

I agree that a meter would ultimately yield the best results. You won't see physical damage in a short time frame.

While we're sort of on the topic, I'll let everyone in on my superman of cleaning solutions:

http://www.weiman.com/products/smooth/cleaner.php

It is slightly abrasive, and I certainly don't recommend use in every case (or repeated use) but this stuff is AMAZING. I'm an experienced electronics guy and I've used tons of products for cleaning, but I have never, ever seen something that works this well. It can clean the most green fuzzy, blackened corroded filthy cart connectors with a few wipes and they look NEW. You can't get a sense for how unbelievably effective this stuff is until you actually see it with your own eyes.

I use this stuff on the worst of the worst and it comes through every time. The regular stuff gets cleaned with anhydrous (>99%) ISO, or a Techspray type contact cleaner.


I'm sorry, but I've never heard that applying water in any capacity to circuit boards is safe under any circumstances.
It can be done safely, but it's not a novice task in terms of doing it correctly or knowing what to watch out for.

[dao2]

Nowhere around me seems too sell 99% isopropyl :/ Is 91% good enough or will that damage it (note after I clean it I turn the qtip around and dry it right off)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

(WATER) It can be done safely, but it's not a novice task in terms of doing it correctly or knowing what to watch out for.

Does the water need to be boiled, distilled or irradiated with ultraviolet light?

ALSO - WEEK ONE RESULT PHOTOS ON 1ST POST!

[jb143]

I'm sorry, but I've never heard that applying water in any capacity to circuit boards is safe under any circumstances.

I'm well aware that freshly created silicon circuit boards (pre-component solder) come out of an initial "rinse bath" ... but that water is HIGHLY filtered, sterilized and deionized.

"Washing" circuit boards under tap water is not the same thing, and can't possibly be a reccomended process.

We build circuit boards at work and we often put then in a standard dishwaher to clean off the solder flux. That's after the components have already been installed. And these are for industrial controllers that have to meet all sorts of standards. Ironicly, when they dry we put them water tight enclosures.

But it's not the water that damages electronics, it's current flowing through the water into something it's not supposed to that does. So as long as currents not flowing, water is ok...though prolonged exposure is sure to rust and corrode stuff. Which is probally what's going on with blowing in cartriges.

Also, isn't saliva acidic? That might be a factor too. Maybe you should test the pH of your spit.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

We build circuit boards at work and we often put then in a standard dishwaher to clean off the solder flux. That's after the components have already been installed. And these are for industrial controllers that have to meet all sorts of standards. Ironicly, when they dry we put them water tight enclosures.

But it's not the water that damages electronics, it's current flowing through the water into something it's not supposed to that does. So as long as currents not flowing, water is ok...though prolonged exposure is sure to rust and corrode stuff. Which is probally what's going on with blowing in cartriges.

Also, isn't saliva acitic? That might be a factor too. Maybe you should test the pH of your spit.

I'm sure the acidity of my saliva is a factor.

Good info on the circuit boards.

[k8track]

I've found that the most effective way to clean the carts is to have my cat lick it clean. The only way to entice her to do that, however, is to spread a bit of mackerel paste on the circuit board, then dip it in milk.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nowhere around me seems too sell 99% isopropyl :/ Is 91% good enough or will that damage it (note after I clean it I turn the qtip around and dry it right off)
It should work, might leave water spots. I think the composition of that alcohol will be 9% water, and that just dries off.


I'm sorry, but I've never heard that applying water in any capacity to circuit boards is safe under any circumstances.
Thanks to jb143 for providing the correct perspective on this issue.

What's left from a quick rinse under the tap - unless you have the worst water in the world - will be a few water spots, hardly enough to cause a short circuit after drying.

The drying process is critical, as you've all guessed. Can't let water sit around around sockets or joints and solder points or around resistors.

It's also a good idea to keep water well away from capacitors...and you shouldn't be getting anything near water that could be holding a charge anyway (i.e. no washing a monitor harness, for example).

Also, I suppose acidity of saliva could be a minor factor here, although testing for that seems out of the scope of any casual experiment. Certainly some gets on a cartridge's contacts when you blow on it, although I would think not much. The repeated exposure to moisture and the lack of drying care is what'd do it.

On that score, I wonder if blowing is worse for the cartridges or the NES itself - I doubt most people would really be blowing on a single game over and over so often that it rusts.

So, I'll go ahead and probably contradict myself and say that I doubt you'd see a lot of difference in blowing on a cartridge if it was being used as much as is normal for the average "play it for a week and then chuck it in the bin" NES game.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I've found that the most effective way to clean the carts is to have my cat lick it clean. The only way to entice her to do that, however, is to spread a bit of mackerel paste on the circuit board, then dip it in milk.


Mmmm...

Not only does mackerel paste taste amazing on circuit boards, I heard that it also gets you high.

[blue lander]

Blue Lander, I can't imagine the isopropyl is leaving a noticable residue. Most likely you aren't cleaning it enough to clear off all the dirt - I find I have to use a few q-tips per side of a dirty NES cartridge to get it somewhat clean. Other possibilities are applying it with something that's not clean (I bet you a washcloth will leave some garbage behind) or not using actual 99% isopropyl.


I can't prove it's true, it's just what some old engineers I used to work with told me. Something about peroxides forming in rubbing alcohol that's been out to long or something like that, and that being deposited on the circuitboard. We used some sort of freon based cleaner, which I think is illegal these days.

The more I think about it, the more absurd the whole premise is. Why blow on the cartridges in the first place? Since when does metal touching metal need moisture to make good contact? Unless the saliva's enough to dissolve the corrosion that's formed on the connectors from the last time you blew in it.

[Ed Oscuro]

I can't prove it's true, it's just what some old engineers I used to work with told me. Something about peroxides forming in rubbing alcohol that's been out to long or something like that, and that being deposited on the circuitboard. We used some sort of freon based cleaner, which I think is illegal these days.
Lucky me - I don't work in an industrial environment with spoiled goods because we had a bunch in stock and couldn't dump it.


Since when does metal touching metal need moisture to make good contact?
I wouldn't say it "needs" moisture, but it will provide the desired effect in the short run.


Unless the saliva's enough to dissolve the corrosion that's formed on the connectors from the last time you blew in it.
You use sand to clean rust off steel and iron, not spit. Not gonna be helpful. The acidity of spit is probably minor to the effect of the moisture, but it wouldn't help regardless.


Not only does mackerel paste taste amazing on circuit boards, I heard that it also gets you high.
That reminds me - pass on the mackerel sashimi.

[blue lander]

I wouldn't say it "needs" moisture, but it will provide the desired effect in the short run.


Which is what, exactly? If you touch two pieces of metal togeather, why does moisture even come into the equation?

[jb143]

If your touching 2 pieces of corroded metal together then anything conductive between them will help make contact. Or more than likely, it could be helping to clean the corrosion just enough to make better contact while in the long run corroding them even more.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Which is what, exactly? If you touch two pieces of metal togeather, why does moisture even come into the equation?

I'm guessing you didn't examine the theoretical diagrams that I provided ...

...in the event that a few pins on the 72 pin-set are bent back so much as a milimeter, a blob of moisture could potentially bridge that gap and carry a current/data.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/NESMoistureTheory02.jpg

[Ed Oscuro]

You know, I have to agree with blue lander's argument here. If that diagram was meant to be read literally, that's just an insane amount of moisture. If it's beading that high then you might end up shorting pins!

My guess is that the moisture seeps around dirt and provides a contact.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The diagram isn't to any type of real scale, it's just made to illustrate a THEORETICAL PRINCIPAL.

If I illustrated the moisture any smaller it might not have made sense at a glance.

...while I'm certainly committed to finishing this one month test, I should have know that doing anything of this nature on the internet would have been filled with this much general conflict, conjecture, and general negativity.

I don't know why I ever kid myself that people can have fun with something like this without taking every single opportunity to flex their internet intellect as if it was a virtual prick-measuring contest.

[blue lander]

Okay, let's assume that when you blow on a cartridge you're leaving a milimeter (or less, whatever) of spit on the connectors. Then like Ed says, those beads of spit could potentially connect several pins togeather and short the cartridge out. And if Ed's theory is correct and the only reason to blow on cartridges is to dissolves the corrosion left on the pins from the last time you blew in it, then why did we start blowing on cartridges in the first place? And why does this happen primarily to the NES instead of across all cartridge based systems? Shouldn't they all have corrosion problems, or shouldn't they all have bent back pins that need spit to make connection?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Okay, let's assume that when you blow on a cartridge you're leaving a milimeter (or less, whatever) of spit on the connectors. Then like Ed says, those beads of spit could potentially connect several pins togeather and short the cartridge out. And if Ed's theory is correct and the only reason to blow on cartridges is to dissolves the corrosion left on the pins from the last time you blew in it, then why did we start blowing on cartridges in the first place? And why does this happen primarily to the NES instead of across all cartridge based systems? Shouldn't they all have corrosion problems, or shouldn't they all have bent back pins that need spit to make connection?

Despite the fact that I've seen the same type of green and black mold/oxidation/corrosion in cartridges from Atari 2600 to Gameboy Advance (pretty much the last cart-based-system to have that style of top-lipped cartridge) including but not limited to NES, Genesis, Super NES, N64, and so on and so forth ...

... and I'm NOT claiming that these THEORIES are anything other than that, but I'm also not comfortable just writing this shit off because people like to be contrarians.

Let me review where I'm coming from just to get this back on track.

During my 5 years with Funcoland, I bought and sold THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of used NES games (as well as Genesis, SNES, N64, GB etc.) and I'd estimate that about 25% to 35% had mild to heavy corrosion going on in them.

A majority of people have been blowing in cartridges to get them to work for over twenty years.

A majority of people don't know what kind of damage they're causing.

I've NEVER seen anybody attempt ANY TYPE of experiment to see if blowing in cartridges causes any damage whatsoever.

As I stated clearly in the beginning of this thing, I don't care about multimeters, electron microscopes, PKE meters, nuclear reactors, or any other method for doing high-end electronic testing of these cartridges in actual NES systems or otherwise.

That's just too much to deal with and it's more trouble than it's worth - because we KNOW that a game with CRAP growing on/breaking down the contacts is NOT GOING TO WORK.

I wanted to do a simple experiment to see ONE EFFING THING:

DOES BLOWING IN GAMES CAUSE CORROSION TO HAPPEN?

DOES BLOWING IN GAMES CAUSE ANY DAMAGE AT ALL?

I'm really glad that this has evoked intelligent discussion on the topic ... but, as most intelligent discussions go on the internet, things are starting to become a contest as to who can trump whom's knowledge of this that and the other thing.

I just want to have fun with this, and if that means not posting any further responses and just updating the main page then that's how I guess it's going to have to go for me, because I'm really starting to get tired of defending things that I've openly expressed as nothing more than theoretical against things that are tantamount the same weight theoretically but presented as hard fact. (Again, standard internet debate logic.)

So, for those who are interested in results, stay tuned for updates on page one, but I'm signing off on the discussion henceforth.

[Trevelyan]

good job man. I hope you start to see some interesting results & maybe continue the experiment after the month. Either way, I think Mythbusters type experiments regarding Video games are a great idea!

[NoahsMyBro]

Don't let it get you down.

I've been following this thread with interest, and am anxious to see the results or lack thereof.

[Garry Silljo]

I don't know why I ever kid myself that people can have fun with something like this without taking every single opportunity to flex their internet intellect as if it was a virtual prick-measuring contest.

Awesome.

[Ed Oscuro]

The diagram isn't to any type of real scale, it's just made to illustrate a THEORETICAL PRINCIPAL.
Dude, don't stress! :)

I don't think you have a right to complain if people are going to take the topic as a jumping-off point to have a serious discussion about this issue. You do your thing, but a worthwhile discussion involves more than one viewpoint and line of reasoning.


And if Ed's theory is correct and the only reason to blow on cartridges is to dissolves the corrosion left on the pins from the last time you blew in it, then why did we start blowing on cartridges in the first place?
I don't think that's the case, but it's one of the ideas that's been put forward. I think what's going on is that the moisture gets around dirt on the pins and makes a firmer contact (aided perhaps by the impurities in saliva - it's not pure water, after all).


I'm really glad that this has evoked intelligent discussion on the topic ... but, as most intelligent discussions go on the internet, things are starting to become a contest as to who can trump whom's knowledge of this that and the other thing.
I think that's a mistaken view. I'm certainly not interested in looking smarter (if I was, I probably wouldn't be here saying that I'm contradicting myself, etc.), just in figuring out what's happening.

I'll be the first to admit that I've gotten off my crusade from earlier. If you want to do an experiment to see what happens in one situation, that's okay...but people may draw conclusions from your result that are not strictly accurate. As you say, you're only testing one thing, but a number of factors are present in this situation.

[blue lander]

You know, If I started a thread that inspired this amount of interest and debate, I'd be pretty proud of myself. Hopefully whoever follows up on this experiment won't be so brittle.


Despite the fact that I've seen the same type of green and black mold/oxidation/corrosion in cartridges from Atari 2600 to Gameboy Advance (pretty much the last cart-based-system to have that style of top-lipped cartridge) including but not limited to NES, Genesis, Super NES, N64, and so on and so forth ...

Right, so why do we have to blow on a cartridge 5 times to make it work in a NES, but not those other consoles? I don't recall ever blowing in the Intellivision I had before my NES, and I sure as hell don't have to blow in my SNES and N64... so what's the difference?


That's just too much to deal with and it's more trouble than it's worth - because we KNOW that a game with CRAP growing on/breaking down the contacts is NOT GOING TO WORK.

How do you know? This is the part I don't get. Do we really need to run an experiment to prove that exposing bare metal to moisture will corrode it over time? Isn't the real question what effect that corrosion has on the reliability of the cartridge? And does blowing on a cartridge actually make it work better, or is it all a placebo effect? Just because everybody does it doesn't mean it works. That can be used to justify any myth.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Just so there's no confusion, this thread and this experiment shouldn't be considered "over" by any means!

I'm just resigning myself to continue my experiment as planned, observe and report on the results.

I see no reason why discussion/debate over the "who, what, where, when, how and why of the process" can't be continued without my input on speculation, theories, or other things being discussed.

This was always about a very rigid, very limited experiment. I'm not interested in doing anything beyond what I planned on, and I'm very tired of repeatedly discussing that and discussing why in the face of "I don't understand why you don't do ABC." or "This would be so much better/effective if you did XYZ!"

When it's over, I'll be more than happy to mail the carts to the next DP member who can add any number of external variables and measure the results with any number of tools.

So, again, stay tuned for results on page 1.

[Rob2600]

why do we have to blow on a cartridge 5 times to make it work in a NES, but not those other consoles? I don't recall ever blowing in the Intellivision I had before my NES, and I sure as hell don't have to blow in my SNES and N64... so what's the difference?

The difference is in the way the cartridges are inserted. Genesis cartridges, SNES cartridges, N64 cartridges, etc. are inserted vertically. That results in minimal pin bending. However, NES games are inserted horizontally and pressed down. Each time a game is pressed down into position, the pins inside the NES are bent slightly. Over time, the bending gets worse and worse until games stop working.

Am I right?

[Ed Oscuro]

So, disregard what I've said previously, this is all I need to say on the matter:

It remains unknown how much time is needed for a NES cartridge's connectors to go bad, so in that sense this could be a worthwhile experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if Frankie doesn't get the connector to go bad in a reasonable amount of time, and for it to still be truckin' months down the road. Of course Frankie needs to describe the ambient humidity of the test environment, but that's all.

So we might actually find that, if done only infrequently - consider how often you play an NES game - blowing might be effectively harmless, with little or no apparent damage to the cartridge. The internal NES connector might be a different story, of course, if you're doing this to all NES carts that enter it.

That said, whether it is a fix - which is, last I heard, the "myth" here - is unfortunately not being tested in what would seem to be a rather simple extra step.

The argument is this: Come on Frankie, put 'em in a NES. :) All you need to do is let 'em air dry, and if you're willing to sacrifice a cartridge you can replace an NES system's connector too.

The counter-argument: Putting games in an NES system will confuse the results.

The retort: Well, but then you're creating an artificial situation where the internal heat of the NES isn't a factor, the cartridge connector itself is irrelevant, etc.

Anyhow, hopefully that's the last I'll feel the need to write until Frankie has some results in. :)

[blue lander]

The difference is in the way the cartridges are inserted. Genesis cartridges, SNES cartridges, N64 cartridges, etc. are inserted vertically. That results in minimal pin bending. However, NES games are inserted horizontally and pressed down. Each time a game is pressed down into position, the pins inside the NES are bent slightly. Over time, the bending gets worse and worse until games stop working.

Am I right?

That makes sense. But I'd imagine that would bend the pins back quite a bit, far more than tiny globs of spit would be able connect. Maybe at first it'd be enough to make a difference, though, but I guess we'll never know until someone does a real experiment.

Also, in my experience it was only certain games that needed to be blown into. Some would work fine yet others I'd have to blow in like crazy. If the pins were bent back, it should effect all cartridges equally.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, in my experience it was only certain games that needed to be blown into.
Not all NES games use all the pins (if indeed any do), so either the internal NES connector isn't making firm connection with all of them, or individual games have dirty pins.

[NoahsMyBro]

Just for the record, as a kid I often blew into VCS cartridges when they misbehaved, and saw positive results (at least short-term) then.

This wasn't exclusively an NES phenomenon.

And I never saw anybody blow into the cartridges before I started doing it. I just deduced that there were a bunch of contacts on the cartridge, they probably had to connect to a bunch of corresponding contacts inside the VCS, behind the mysterious dust-blocking door, and maybe some dustspeck was blocking the contact. So I'd blow, and try to blow in a way that would get past the plastic dust-guard at the top of the cartridges, as well as blowing into the cartridge slot, trying to get past the dust cover there as well.

(Edited to correct typos.)

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Yeah, I remember blowing into my 2600 games all the time. When the carts aren't seated right, instead of the blinking blue screen like on the NES, the 2600 gives you that hip pinstripe pattern with the high pitched whine.

I blow on my DS games occassionally. Logically, I know it doesn't really do anything, but it's just second nature at this point.


...word is bondage...

[Ed Oscuro]

Logically, I know it doesn't really do anything, but it's just second nature at this point.
Hooray for gross rituals!

Some people run disk defragmenter every night, other people make sure they can be buried with their games, I suppose.

[jb143]

Just for the record, as a kid I often blew into VCS cartridges when they misbehaved, and saw positive results (at least short-term) then.

This wasn't exclusively an NES phenomenon.



I did the same thing with an intellivision cartrige recently. It wouldn't play for anything so I blew in it and it started right up.

There seems to be a pretty large corrilation between a huge number of individuals, each of whom seems to have discovered it on their own, for this to be a placebo effect. (I'm not sure if that's the correct term in this particular case but it was used in a previous post)

On a semi-related topic. My brother once who couldn't get a NES game to work after multiple attempts, even after blowing, filled the slot with hand lotion. I got mad at him when he did it but the game worked perfectly the first try.

[Ed Oscuro]

There seems to be a pretty large corrilation between a huge number of individuals, each of whom seems to have discovered it on their own, for this to be a placebo effect.
You're right, placebo effect isn't exactly the right word, what you're looking for is called "confirmation bias." There's been people who've blowed on them carts and didn't get anything, so they blew again, and in any case do you think they put the cartridge back in the same way even on their first try?

But I'm inclined to believe it's possible the myth works, but I'm just sayin'.

[jb143]

Could also be "spurious correlation" or possibly even non sequitur. But the point is...it sure does seem to work more often than not by more than enough people. That would be an interesting experement. Might even be a good one to submit to Mythbusters. Have they done a video game myth yet?

[Ed Oscuro]

Could also be "spurious correlation"
True! :)


But the point is...it sure does seem to work more often than not by more than enough people. That would be an interesting experement. Might even be a good one to submit to Mythbusters. Have they done a video game myth yet?
I'd be interested to see if they'd take it, since - for the reason I had before - the scraping not-really-ZIF socket of the NES makes it hard to replicate results with any accuracy.

You're right, though. I think this is the bigger myth of the two, although what Frankie's testing is indeed worthwhile.

That and nothing blows up, and you know how we'll feel when they strap a stick of dynamite to an NES.

[jb143]

That and nothing blows up, and you know how we'll feel when they strap a stick of dynamite to an NES.

That's true...but I'd be all for them blowing up a Barbie game or Legend of Kage or something though.

I think what Frankie's doing is an important part of the overall experiment. And as he said...he'd like it if somone else took up the rest. It would be great if the Mythbusters did it. Someone should submit this thread to them...it might make it to TV.:cool:

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

For the record, if somebody would like to send me a clean, working toaster NES with reliable pins I'd be more than happy to stick both cartridges in them at the end of the test and see what happens.

[5thman]

...while I'm certainly committed to finishing this one month test, I should have know that doing anything of this nature on the internet would have been filled with this much general conflict, conjecture, and general stupidity.


Fixed.

I appreciate what you're doin', Frankie.

[jb143]

Fixed.

I appreciate what you're doin', Frankie.

btw...I think what your doing is awesome as well. Just think, the real Mythbusters get people complaining about the way they do things all the time so your in good company.

[elvis8atari]

Sorry if this was answered already, But what is the best way to clean old nes cartridges? Or at least, a really good safe way?

I've used windex and a q-tip. That always seems to get it working. Is that safe?

[Ed Oscuro]

99% isopropyl alcohol is what you want. Windex is specially formulated to clean windows and I imagine it will leave some residue. The alcohol, on the other hand, will evaporate almost immediately.

[Ed Oscuro]

For the record, if somebody would like to send me a clean, working toaster NES with reliable pins I'd be more than happy to stick both cartridges in them at the end of the test and see what happens.
But the Toaster wasn't the one that's known for reliability problems...I've got a pretty reliable (couple of) NESes, but I'm afraid I can't ship one out for free...

...on the other hand, if you were to ship out the cartridges I'll stick them any ol' place you please...no guarantees on what happens after that though ;P

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

But the Toaster wasn't the one that's known for reliability problems...I've got a pretty reliable (couple of) NESes, but I'm afraid I can't ship one out for free...

...on the other hand, if you were to ship out the cartridges I'll stick them any ol' place you please...no guarantees on what happens after that though ;P

They're all yours man. PM me your details and I'll ship them out for testing when it's over.

[MachineGex]

But the Toaster wasn't the one that's known for reliability problems...

The top loader was the one known for reliability problems? Oh my, I hope I missed something.

Doesn't....
Toaster = first version NES
?

Why does it seem people are making this thread harder than it needs to be?

[Rob2600]

Doesn't....
Toaster = first version NES
?

Toasters have slots on the top. That would make the top-loader the toaster and the front-loader the...microwave?

[jb143]

Toasters have slots on the top. That would make the top-loader the toaster and the front-loader the...microwave?

A pizza oven.

Honestly though...I've always been confused by this as well.

[Cornelius]

yeah, it is a dumb nomenclature. I have to imagine people started calling them toasters before the top-loader came out? Anyway, the grey box is called a toaster because you have to push the cart down with much the same action and feel as pushing the lever on a bread toaster. Or at least that's what I've always thought, and have read from others as well.

[Ed Oscuro]

They're all yours man. PM me your details and I'll ship them out for testing when it's over.
Alright then, I'll pay ya for shipping back, or however you want to do that...

ALSO:

Sorry everybody, I meant Toaster = first NES. I don't know what I was thinking there.

Lol, my precise argument led to rather off-topic discussion because of a mistake...my bad.

[dao2]

Correct ;p the first one is a toaster ;p turn it on its side and it looks and acts just like one ;p the model 2 is the toploader :|

toaster
top loader

[Rob2600]

the first one is a toaster ;p turn it on its side and it looks and acts just like one ;p the model 2 is the toploader

Every toaster I've ever seen has slots on the top, not on the front. I'm just saying.

[Ed Oscuro]

Every toaster I've ever seen has slots on the top, not on the front. I'm just saying.
I've seen plenty of toasters with the reverse DeLorean style doors (http://ilovemytoaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/oldschool.jpg) on the sides. Them's old-school toasters.

[Rob2600]

I've seen plenty of toasters with the reverse DeLorean style doors (http://ilovemytoaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/oldschool.jpg) on the sides. Them's old-school toasters.

That's cool! It looks nothing like an NES though (front-loader or top-loader). :)

[kedawa]

I just breathe on them, not blow. Only moisture from the lungs gets on the contacts, not spittle, etc.
If it gets corroded, I take out the contact cleaner and go to town.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Sorry for the delay in getting Week 2 results pictures up.

The first year of Windows Vista live updates all the way through SP1 had finally caught up with my PC and caused (I think) what I'm beginning to call "update minor-conflict pileup", after running live updates on the past 3 standard Windows OS'es, it always seems to happen a year or so in, and I gather it's a cascading effect from one or two updates that don't jive ... in any case it caused some type of fatal error requiring me to do a format and clean install.

Everything looks okay now, so I should have my scanner back up and running for more pictures tonight.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Updated with week 2 results (sorry for the lateness, the computer re-format aside - it's been a hectic couple of weeks getting settled into my new administrative job and doing some awesome improvements to the already awesome apartment with my always awesome now live-in girlfriend).

[dao2]

Every toaster I've ever seen has slots on the top, not on the front. I'm just saying.

the action I mean.... if you put it on it's side...

edit: and wow just checked the results, those things def look dirty as hell :|