DP MYTHBUSTERS : Blowing in NES Cartridges

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/DPMythbusters.jpg

The original front-loading US 72 Pin NES system is notorious for cartridges not making a complete connection with the internal pin-set. The result is often scrambled graphics, a blinking screen on boot-up, or even worse MID GAME!

Since the system's first signs of technical difficulties, people were perplexed to the point of creating various "quick fixes" to get cartridges to work properly.

One of those "quick-fix" methods that proved to be highly successful in the short-term, but potentially damaging in the long run was the "blow into the cartridge/onto the cartridge chip".

While most people who do this believe that they're "blowing dust" off of the cartridge contacts, what they're actually doing is increasing conductivity on the cartridge contacts by lining them with a thin (on in some cases a thick) layer of moisture by way of human breath (spit, bacteria, and whatever else is in the person's mouth doing the blowing ... yuck).

It's true that some people never really knew the potential damage that they were doing to their cartridges and systems ... but the fact that most NES systems require internal pin set replacements/refurbishment twenty-something years later, and a majority of NES cartridges need intense cleaning to return them to working condition should be proof enough that this ultra-common practice was in fact damaging in the long-term.

Yet, some people remain un-convinced. That's why I'm here to do a simple, analog science experiment and answer the question "Does blowing in your NES games cause a potential for serious long-term damage for both the games and the system?"

Hopefully through this experiment I'll be able to bust the myth that blowing into NES games is not harmless, and that the damage is much more than just a "theory".

NOTE: THIS TEST IS NOT TO SEE IF EITHER GAME WILL "WORK" CORRECTLY IN AN NES AFTER 30 DAYS. IN 2008 MOST NES SYSTEMS HAVE ISSUES BOOTING ANYTHING WITH ANY DEGREE OF MEASURABLE RELIABILITY. THIS IS A TEST TO DETERMINE THE POTENTIALLY DAMAGING CHEMICAL PROCESS THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU BLOW IN A GAME AND THE VISIBLE EVIDENCE OF THAT.

Here's how it's going to go down. I've got two - for all intents and purposes - "identical" copies of Gyromite, the FIRST game produced for the NES system. Both of them are in very good to near mint condition. I have done MINIMAL cleaning to them to prepare them for this experiment.

Cartridge A will be the "zero abuse" subject. I will leave this cartridge out in an open room-temperature indoor environment for 30 days starting today.

Cartridge B will be the "daily abuse" subject. I will blow into this cartridge 10 times (all at once) daily to simulate the same average type of abuse that an NES cartridge would suffer over the course of a few months in it's lifetime.

At the end of the test we will all view what kind of oxidation/corrosion/mold, etc. develops on the cartridge contacts for both cartridges and extrapolate what happened and why.

Here's the photos of the test subjects. Stay tuned for weekly updates!!!
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/DPMythbustersTestSubjects.jpg


WEEK ONE RESULTS

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week01_01.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week01_02.jpg

Observations:

Cartridge A (No Abuse) shows no signs of damage. Looks indistinguishable to the way it did at the beginning of the test.

Cartridge B (Daily Blow) shows no visible signs of breakdown/corrosion on the cartridge contact metal, however it is visibly dirty with dried particles likely retained in my breath. Also signs of white "mold/mildew/bacteria/unknown" present after 7 days.

While there's certainly no physical damage to the cartridge conctacts after 7 days, this kind of dried crap + growth could certainly obstruct the pin-set from properly reading the game.


WEEK TWO RESULTS

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week02_01.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week02_02.jpg

Observations:

Cartridge A was EXACTLY the same as week one, so until the final week, I'm going to leave that one off the scanner.

Cartridge B looks generally the same ... no signs of corrosion, but that white bacteria/mold/mildew continues to grow in a very interesting pattern, which I belive may have also acted like a petrie dish and casued me to get a bit of a sore throat/cough last week while I was getting my face and mouth pretty close for blowing sessions. Hopefully I am now innoculated against whatever disease is growing in my Gyromite cartridge. (If not I had best call Dr. Mario)


FINAL RESULTS

Okay. Sorry I had so much going on that prevent me from ending this thing smoothly.

I kept up with the blowing for the duration of the 30 days, and even went a week or so longer. So, here are the photo results of both cartridges.

Cartridge B: Daily Blow

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week04_02.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week04_01.jpg

Cartridge A: No Abuse

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Week04_03.jpg

Observations:

The build up of mold/mildew/growth on cartridge B never got much worse than what developed in the second week. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the fact that I wasn't doing anything MORE than JUST blowing (I know a LOT of people wanted the variable in place of actually PLAYING it in an toaster-style NES, but I just didn't have the means to do so) ...

... I think that the bottom line is that if a visual observation is the ONLY thing that we're going by, what happened to the cartridge that was blown on after 30 days (less than that even if you look at the timed results) is NOT GOOD. While there's no corrosion going on at a really visible to the naked eye level, there may be some microscopic chemical reactions going on ... and that build-up at the very least could prevent the games from working from a not-able-to-make-full-connection standpoint.

And I reiterate that it was ONLY blown on, not loogie-hocked and spit in or rubbed down with non-distilled moisture like some kids may have done to their cartridge games to get them to work ...

Could this cart be cleaned up post test and returned to 100% working condition? Sure. Probably. But right now it's fucking gross.

Cartridge A on the other hand ... which wasn't blown in or touched for 30+ days has retained a HIGH level of shine / reflective surface / likely high level of conductivity. Bottom line there is that it looks better and probably works better.

This was fun, and I wish I could have wrapped it up in a more timely fashion. While it doesn't really prove to the most concrete of degrees that blowing in games is guaranteed to destroy them ... I think from a visual standpoint we can see that SOMETHING BAD happens that could in certain cases probably LEAD to damage in the long run, especailly if the blowing continues over the course of YEARS and cleaning solutions are never applied to the game.

[Trevelyan]

Is the NES in good condition? Whats the deal with that?

it's a great idea though, i cant wait to see the results

[c0ldb33r]

Man alive... that title image was worth the price of admission alone! Good job! :D

I really look forward to seeing the results.

Are you going to be using two NESs or one? In theory it would make sense to start with two NESs each with their own freshly installed connector.

[dreams]

Were these sealed copies of the game? If not, how can you guarantee that the cartridges have never been blown into before?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Neither game was sealed new. Both were in VG condition. I have no knowledge of their prior history, but this is just, as I stated a basic test ... we're not going to get into any other specifications other than clean and in good condition at the start of the test.

Both of the games were tested on a Yobo NES clone prior to the start of the experiment, both passed booting up, and both were cleaned with circuit board friendly freon to remove what little oxidation there was.

I'm not sticking "Subject B" into any of my systems once it has been blown into for 30 days straight ... so if you really want to see if it "works" at the end of the test, I'll do my best to get some access to a toaster NES and we'll see if either work, HOWEVER this really is more about the external visible oxidation/corrosion damage than anything.

I just want to SEE what kind of VISIBLE exterior metal damage blowing into games creates.

[Viraneth]

Good idea. and yes, the picture is megawin

[cyberfluxor]

Interesting to see what happens. Kudos on the picture too.

[onReload]

Since this is being studied so thoroughly, I'm guessing you guys already knew this, but here goes: it feels to me (with an SNES or top-loading NES) that if the game was slightly tilted, you might not get the same conductivity. So if someone took out a cart to blow on it, then replaced it, they might replace it in a way more properly aligned to be read.

I do this with with an old copy of SMRPG - the cart can tilt back and forth a bit while "secured" in the SNES, and booting it up with it tilted one way is usually more successful.

So maybe this explains why people thought blowing was successful, along with the whole water-conductivity thing?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Since this is being studied so thoroughly, I'm guessing you guys already knew this, but here goes: it feels to me (with an SNES or top-loading NES) that if the game was slightly tilted, you might not get the same conductivity. So if someone took out a cart to blow on it, then replaced it, they might replace it in a way more properly aligned to be read.

I do this with with an old copy of SMRPG - the cart can tilt back and forth a bit while "secured" in the SNES, and booting it up with it tilted one way is usually more successful.

So maybe this explains why people thought blowing was successful, along with the whole water-conductivity thing?

There are many factors that contribute to the casuse of cartridges not making correct contact with the NES's internal pinset.

I'm not looking to discover the "cause" ... I just want to see what type of external visible damage that blowing into cartridges causes.

[Trevelyan]

if the game was slightly tilted, you might not get the same conductivity. So if someone took out a cart to blow on it, then replaced it, they might replace it in a way more properly aligned to be read.



This was the case with Zelda:OOT on my N64. Its an interesting point.

Noting which NES console variations you use in the experiment would be handy. Would one be able to determine by aid of a statistical analysis if the differing NES consoles vs 'typical' insertion technique (into 'said' console) might lead to a pattern? Maybe its all to do with the cartridges, but it may be worth checking out.

EDIT: just read your post above mine, ignore this if its off topic/experiment

[c0ldb33r]

I'm not looking to discover the "cause" ... I just want to see what type of external visible damage that blowing into cartridges causes.
So you're not going to be inserting either cartridge into an NES during the month period?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'll do my best to revise/further clarify in the original post to avoid confusion ... this isn't about whether or not the games work when inserted into an NES ... as there are WAY too many variables to take into consideraition in that equation.

The short short is that I want to see what the physical damage to the metal contacts is after 30 days of daily abuse via "blowing" onto an NES cartridge.

I would venture to guess over that short a period of time the game could easily be "rescued" with simple cleaning products, and it might even work if inserted into a toaster or top loader ... but that's not the point of this test.

There are people out there that A.) Don't realize that blowing into NES (or any cartridge games) potentially causes damage. and B.) Don't believe that it causes any type of damage at all. I just want some nice visual physical evidence that there is a damaging chemical process that happens when you do this, even if it does in-directly cause games to boot on a toaster NES with a higher degree of success (for whatever reason that is ... moisture increasing conductivity, repeated re-insertion causing a correct connect ... etc.)

[jajaja]

I think this is a pretty cool idea, nice work! :)

[guitargary75]

Cool.

[Garry Silljo]

Since most whom believe blowing is bad think that the damage is LONG term, is 30 days enough time?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Since most whom believe blowing is bad think that the damage is LONG term, is 30 days enough time?

Well, I've seen plenty of really awful looking carts ... and I really don't know what it'll look like after 30 days, but if it looks HALF as bad as the worst I've ever seen, I think we'll be able to come to some type of conclusion as to how much damage could be done if the abuse were to continue.

It's a wait and see my friend.

A wait and see.

[MegaDrive20XX]

I'm going to have to bookmark this. This has got to be one of the most impressive factoids I have ever heard. I always told people "Please don't blow into the cart"

[NES_Rules]

I tried something similar a while back. I took a Pac-Man board and left it in a container of spit for a couple months. Amazingly, all it needed was a wipe with a dry cloth and it worked perfectly, there was no visible corrosion on it at all.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I tried something similar a while back. I took a Pac-Man board and left it in a container of spit for a couple months. Amazingly, all it needed was a wipe with a dry cloth and it worked perfectly, there was no visible corrosion on it at all.

A ... container of spit?

Um. ew.

[Sudo]

Interesting. I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of the experiment.

[Press_Start]

Are you playing as Jamie or Adam? (Can't be Buster as R.O.B. fits perfectly for that position.)

Here's something that been bugging me, is there a difference (long-term) is you use 70% concentration alcohol compared to 100% concentration? Just something to think about.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Are you playing as Jamie or Adam? (Can't be Buster as R.O.B. fits perfectly for that position.)

Here's something that been bugging me, is there a difference (long-term) is you use 70% concentration alcohol compared to 100% concentration? Just something to think about.

I'm playing Kari.

I think that 100% alcohol has a higher PH and could eventually "strip" the base metals down ... same basic concept as what I'm doing with "moisture" ... prolonged repeated exposure to pure concentrations of alcohol would probably do progressive damage on a small scale over time.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I tried something similar a while back. I took a Pac-Man board and left it in a container of spit for a couple months. Amazingly, all it needed was a wipe with a dry cloth and it worked perfectly, there was no visible corrosion on it at all.
The metal would have to be exposed to both moisture and oxygen in order to corrode, so your container of spit wasn't doing much but waterlogging the circuit board. However, I'm still fairly skeptical that there will be any noticeable corrosion in Frankie's experiment after 30 days. If there's anything visible it would probably just be some dried salts left behind by Mr. Says_Relax's breath, which could be wiped away easily (those same salts would surely contribute the oxidization of the metal in the long run however). Maybe i'm wrong, though, and the oxidization will happen faster.

Where are you performing this experiment, Frankie? If you're somewhere dry like Nevada, you're probably wasting your time. Unless the air is relatively humid, the moisture in your breath will evaporate too quickly. And if you're really at the bottom of Suda Trench, you'll have the same problem as NES_Rules and his bucket of spit.


Here's something that been bugging me, is there a difference (long-term) is you use 70% concentration alcohol compared to 100% concentration? Just something to think about.
Have you ever seen 100% alcohol for sale before? We use it at my work and we have to order it from a laboratory equipment distributor. The highest I've ever seen for sale in a store is 85%. The remaining percentage is made up of water, though, which is indeed more likely to be left behind and cause oxidization after the alcohol evaporates, so I guess pure grain alcohol would be better in theory. I doubt it's anything much to worry about in reality, though, since you're not using it very often.


...word is bondage...

[Haoie]

I'll add that for Playstation memory cards, sometimes they malfunction [reading data] when there's dust inside.

Blowing almost always seems to help if it's a minor issue.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Where are you performing this experiment, Frankie?

New Jersey, where the air alone is probably toxic enough to corrode metal.

[dao2]

The metal would have to be exposed to both moisture and oxygen in order to corrode, so your container of spit wasn't doing much but waterlogging the circuit board. However, I'm still fairly skeptical that there will be any noticeable corrosion in Frankie's experiment after 30 days. If there's anything visible it would probably just be some dried salts left behind by Mr. Says_Relax's breath, which could be wiped away easily (those same salts would surely contribute the oxidization of the metal in the long run however). Maybe i'm wrong, though, and the oxidization will happen faster.

Where are you performing this experiment, Frankie? If you're somewhere dry like Nevada, you're probably wasting your time. Unless the air is relatively humid, the moisture in your breath will evaporate too quickly. And if you're really at the bottom of Suda Trench, you'll have the same problem as NES_Rules and his bucket of spit.


Have you ever seen 100% alcohol for sale before? We use it at my work and we have to order it from a laboratory equipment distributor. The highest I've ever seen for sale in a store is 85%. The remaining percentage is made up of water, though, which is indeed more likely to be left behind and cause oxidization after the alcohol evaporates, so I guess pure grain alcohol would be better in theory. I doubt it's anything much to worry about in reality, though, since you're not using it very often.


...word is bondage...

I see isopropyl 91% all th time does that count ;S?

[gum_drops]

I see isopropyl 91% all th time does that count ;S?

I use 99% isopropyl alcohol produced by Swan all the time to clean cart contacts/whatever else needs cleaning. I have always assumed the 99% is better since it evaporates in seconds but I wonder if its rougher on the contacts?

[Vroomfunkel]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/FILE0639.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/FILE0642.jpg



I have been wondering whether the same principle applies to people as to Nintendo cartridges and, in the interests of science, I humbly submit myself as subject B in the corresponding experiment to determine whether a month of 'no abuse' compared to a daily blow will result in long term harm.

I nominate Kamino for the month of 'no abuse'.

[c0ldb33r]

Not to derail your thread but has anyone seen the ... uhmmm ... images floating around of Adam? I'm not going to say anything more about this but mannnn.... very gross stuff.

[debian4life]

Sounds good. I am curious though if constant insertion and removal of games from the various systems also helped to corrode contacts. The 72 pin dilemma happened from inserting and removing cartridges since insertion and removal of games caused the contacts to wear.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Sounds good. I am curious though if constant insertion and removal of games from the various systems also helped to corrode contacts. The 72 pin dilemma happened from inserting and removing cartridges since insertion and removal of games caused the contacts to wear.

It could be.

In the case of damaged cartridge contacts that don't have a random pattern of corrosion, but oxidation in the shape of the uniform markings of the 72 pin connectors ... that could be something we'll have to look into.

And that nude picture of Adam Savage was proven to not be him.

VERY VERY VERY VERY NSFW proof here. Don't click if you're uncomfortable looking at overweight explicitly naked men that look very much like but are in fact not Adam Savage. Don't say I didn't warn you. (http://theblemish.com/2008/05/nooooooo-my-eyes-my-beautiful-eyes/)

[remowilliams]

I use 99% isopropyl alcohol produced by Swan all the time to clean cart contacts/whatever else needs cleaning. I have always assumed the 99% is better since it evaporates in seconds but I wonder if its rougher on the contacts?
It's not 'rougher on the contacts.' 99% should be used all the time if possible. Lower percentages contain (obviously) more water and that's the enemy of electronic contacts, not the alcohol.

[s1lence]

I'm surprised by all the "negative" comments here. I think its a good idea, especially since a good portion of us live in not so dry areas. It should be interesting how bad those pins start to look.

[Krook]

Not to derail your thread but has anyone seen the ... uhmmm ... images floating around of Adam? I'm not going to say anything more about this but mannnn.... very gross stuff.

uuhm, what have i missed?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm surprised by all the "negative" comments here. I think its a good idea, especially since a good portion of us live in not so dry areas. It should be interesting how bad those pins start to look.

I haven't seen any negatives really ... just people with their own theories, which I absolutely welcome, and it's totally cool with me.

I enjoy provoking thought/discussion over this kind of thing.

And even MY theory, while I base it on years of first-hand visual evidence may in fact turn out to be "busted" (at least in the short term of one-month worth of mouth spit moisture exposure).

[punkoffgirl]

Frankie, if the contacts don't show any visible corrosion after the month is up, are you open to extending your experiment?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Frankie, if the contacts don't show any visible corrosion after the month is up, are you open to extending your experiment?

If people want me to keep going until something happens, I don't see why not. If I don't net any results, I could even modify the conditions...but I don't want to "force" it to happen. That's not very scientific.

The whole reason that I believe that blowing in games is a direct correlation to them having increased oxidation comes from my years at Funcoland:

Every time there was a batch of awful looking, heavily oxidized games, I'd ask the owner if they blew in their games to get them to work, and the answer was always "yes". And in each batch of games, the ones that were popular and likely heavily played often had the worst of it (and probably got blown in the most frequently).

I don't believe that heavy oxidation (especially to the point of damaging the contacts) is a spontaneously occurring phenomenon ... it has to come from somewhere, and most people didn't keep their games next to a humidifier. I really think it's directly linked to "blowing".

In any case, we'll take a look at the results at 30 days and go from there.

[punkoffgirl]

Then, like others, the only condition I'd suggest modifiying if that ends up being the case would be actually putting it into a system. That, and the system being powered for a length of time, are about the only two "missing" factors I can think of.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Then, like others, the only condition I'd suggest modifiying if that ends up being the case would be actually putting it into a system. That, and the system being powered for a length of time, are about the only two "missing" factors I can think of.

Well, I don't own a toaster NES ... SO, if at the end of this, somebody would like to take up the mantle of continuing this under the varied condition of -

Blowing into a game and then inserting it into a working NES which is then powered on and used for an extended period (which I would imagine would "stimulate growth" like a heated incubator) for 30 days (or longer)

they're more than welcome to. I'll send them the two Gyromite carts if they pay for shipping.

I just wanted to cover the straight-up environmental / moisture / spit side of things.

[Bibliophile]

Well, I don't own a toaster NES ... SO, if at the end of this, somebody would like to take up the mantle of continuing this under the varied condition of -

Blowing into a game and then inserting it into a working NES which is then powered on and used for an extended period (which I would imagine would "stimulate growth" like a heated incubator) for 30 days (or longer)

they're more than welcome to. I'll send them the two Gyromite carts if they pay for shipping.

I just wanted to cover the straight-up environmental / moisture / spit side of things.

I am willing to continue the experiment after 30 days if you want me to, and I am willing to pay for shipping. Let me know. I'd be interested in seeing the results of this experiment, both after 30 days, and after longer periods of time. I also do have NES front loaders and top loaders to try the carts on.

[Nick Goracke]

While most people who do this believe that they're "blowing dust" off of the cartridge contacts, what they're actually doing is increasing conductivity on the cartridge contacts by lining them with a thin (on in some cases a thick) layer of moisture by way of human breath (spit, bacteria, and whatever else is in the person's mouth doing the blowing ... yuck).


I like the experiment, but I'm curious to hear how you reached this conclusion. Increasing the conductivity and, therefore, rendering the game playable seems pretty far-fetched; the magic, I would argue, is simply reseating the game (which one has to do after blowing on the cartridge each time).

Sounds like a second science experiment that could be done... ;)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I like the experiment, but I'm curious to hear how you reached this conclusion. Increasing the conductivity and, therefore, rendering the game playable seems pretty far-fetched; the magic, I would argue, is simply reseating the game (which one has to do after blowing on the cartridge each time).

Sounds like a second science experiment that could be done... ;)

I reached that theoretical conclusion, because moisture inarguably increases conductivity.

And while I agree that repeatedly re-seating a cartridge in a toaster NES could probably yield an above average level of success in getting it to boot ... I believe that the act of "blowing" (moisture) into games likely yields a level of success above and beyond JUST re-seating them repeatedly, or else this phenomenon wouldn't have become the practice of hundreds of thousands of Nintendo users during the life of the system.

Here's a diagram of exactly what I'm describing ...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/NESMoistureTheory01.jpg

Figure A. No moisture, no contact being made.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/NESMoistureTheory02.jpg

Figure B. Moisture, contact being bridged.

[Cornelius]

Awesome! Love the diagrams.

I'd just like to add that it isn't necessarily spit that is on those contacts, and I think it rather unlikely one would be able to disperse their spit evenly enough onto the contacts to have a reliably positive impact on performance. Much more likely is that it is simply condensation from the person's hot humid breath onto cold metal contacts, which would mean it is pretty clean water. Granted, if you are coughing into your games or otherwise incapable of blowing without adding a bunch of phlegm, then a little something extra is being added to the mix!

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm not looking to discover the "cause" ... I just want to see what type of external visible damage that blowing into cartridges causes.
It wouldn't be a difficult extra step to have NESes set up (using the dry cartridge first, if you only have one NES) and test how often they work, as well.

You're already doing one step, why not the other?

[alexkidd2000]

Awesome! Love the diagrams.

I'd just like to add that it isn't necessarily spit that is on those contacts, and I think it rather unlikely one would be able to disperse their spit evenly enough onto the contacts to have a reliably positive impact on performance. Much more likely is that it is simply condensation from the person's hot humid breath onto cold metal contacts, which would mean it is pretty clean water. Granted, if you are coughing into your games or otherwise incapable of blowing without adding a bunch of phlegm, then a little something extra is being added to the mix!


My cousins condensation was anything but clean... All his carts smelt like that stale saliva smell when kids suck on their toys haha.

[Apollo]

uuhm, what have i missed?

Nothing. Just move along and close your eyes. I've seen them. Once you see it...


But in much less scarring news, this is all news to me. Growing up, everyone always assumed that blowing on a cartridge was to get dirt or dust off, but considering how often they were used, dust never really had much time to accumulate. Hindsights 20/20 I suppose.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It wouldn't be a difficult extra step to have NESes set up (using the dry cartridge first, if you only have one NES) and test how often they work, as well.

You're already doing one step, why not the other?

As I said, for starters I don't have a toaster NES.

What I really want do to is simply see if moisture via blowing causes surface damage.

Once we figure that out, there have already been volunteers to continue the experiment/test with actual NES systems, and measure the functionality of both games.

[Rob2600]

Cool experiment. I'm curious to see the outcome. A quick thought:

When a child turned on a game and got a blinking screen, how often do you think that was because of the lockout chip being out of sync with the game and not because of dirty contacts or bent pins? Then, when the child removed the cartridge, blew on it, put it back in, and turned it on again, maybe by coincidence sometimes the lockout chip was now in sync with the game, making it boot up just fine.

How big of a problem/coincidence do you think the lockout chip was vs. dirty contacts/bent pins?

[Cornelius]

How big of a problem/coincidence do you think the lockout chip was vs. dirty contacts/bent pins?
You weren't exactly asking me, but the answer is very little. Back in the day I remember we'd turn it on and off a few times, take it out and put it back in and have very little success. One quick blow, and bam, it would work. Pretty much anyone that played/plays it a lot will tell you that blowing definitely works well, though like someone said, we used to all think it was dust.

As an adult trying to get these games playing it is even clearer that corroded contacts are the main problem, since taking them apart and cleaning them thoroughly is the single most important way to get them going.

[Nick Goracke]

And while I agree that repeatedly re-seating a cartridge in a toaster NES could probably yield an above average level of success in getting it to boot ... I believe that the act of "blowing" (moisture) into games likely yields a level of success above and beyond JUST re-seating them repeatedly, or else this phenomenon wouldn't have become the practice of hundreds of thousands of Nintendo users during the life of the system.


Placebo effect. Take the cartridge out, blow in it (no effect, but you saw some other kid do it so...), reseat it, watch it work, conclude that the "blowing" was the difference...

Also, you would need the contacts to stay moist for hours... or you would start to see games "glitch" during play.

It'd be an interesting experiment, none-the-less. Not saying your theory is impossible, but it certainly needs some data to back it up.

[madman77]

Thirty days to show the long-term effects of blowing on a cartridge? I don't think we will see any difference in that time period. Did you happen to take any high resolution scans of the contacts of the boards, or just the slightly blurry digicam pics?

[Chuplayer]

Thirty days to show the long-term effects of blowing on a cartridge? I don't think we will see any difference in that time period. Did you happen to take any high resolution scans of the contacts of the boards, or just the slightly blurry digicam pics?

I can attest to the scans idea. Stick those suckers in gutted CD cases and stick them in your scanner. It's a great way to do this sort of thing. I was telling an engineer at work a few weeks ago about that when I saw him using a digital camera to take pics of PCBs, and he's still using the camera :|

But I do think 30 days will be enough to get some results. I've got N64 games that are in horrible shape, and they have been around for less than half the time. It's funny how nearly every used game I ever got is in piss-poor condition as far as cart contacts go, and every single game I bought new and sealed has excellent pins. It's like everybody has poured acid on their carts.

That's not to say I'm innocent of cart blowing. I still do it sometimes.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Just the slightly blurry cam pics for now ... at 1 week I'll do scans.

I'm really glad this has people interested/talking.

Maybe we can make it a regular feature/segment!

Can anybody think of any other gaming myths that we could theoretically do experiments on?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

That's not to say I'm innocent of cart blowing. I still do it sometimes.

Just because you blow a little cart every now and then, doesn't make you...



Seriously though... I'm anxious to see what's gonna happen. I get some carts that are in horrible shape... but it doesn't seem to be limited to NES games, as I've found corroded carts on the SNES and N64... which are systems that I thought people didn't blow in. At least I didn't...

[Ed Oscuro]

Another random idea:

Blowing on contacts vs. being kept in a damp basement (no idea how to emulate that effect, unfortunately).

I guess the long and short of it is that NES games like to be dry, if you want to keep them for the long haul.

[blue lander]

Are you sure electricity running through the cartridge contacts when it's plugged into a NES isn't vital to the experiment? Who knows what effect that has on how fast the metal oxidizes. And are we sure that the cartridge contacts are what's getting corroded, not the contacts within the NES itself? An average NES game might be blown on once or twice a week, but if that NES gets several spit covered NES games inserted into it on a daily basis, the wear-and-tear might be even worse inside the NES than inside the cartridge.

Another interesting indicator to see if the spit works would be to use an ohm meter with a cartridge that's been blown on recently versus a dry one versus one that's been blown on for 30 days. Which one has more resistance, or does it make any difference at all?

Here's how I'd test this theory after the 30 days:

1: Take the circuit board out of a toaster NES

2: Plug the cartridge into the NES and power it up. If the game runs, pull the cartridge out and put it back in until you get the blinking light or corrupt graphics or whatever.

3: Once you get the blinking lights, use an ohm meter or a cable tester to check connectivity between each pin on the cartridge circuit board and the NES circuitboard.

4: If all the pins make connection, then obviously the problem has nothing to do with how the cartridge was seated or corrosion on the contacts.

5: If some of the pins didn't make contact, visually inspect them. Are they physically touching the connector in the NES, or is the pin bent back too far, or is the cartridge in at an odd angle?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Again.

While I appreciate all of the interest and input, all of the suggested variables are specifically why I'm running this test and only this test.

I need it to be simple to start.

Simple, basic, moisture-by-way-of-human-breath-on-cartridge-contacts.

If after 30 days this yields zero results in terms of damage, then we can move on to try other things... but I reiterate, I won't be the one continuing the experiments at that point.

I'm doing a simple environmental test. That's all.

[blue lander]

Okie dokie. Considering how spotty cartridges have been the bane of NES Gamer's existance for the last 20 years, I'm suprised nobody's done a meaningful version of this test already!

[TonyTheTiger]

Again.

While I appreciate all of the interest and input, all of the suggested variables are specifically why I'm running this test and only this test.

I need it to be simple to start.

Simple, basic, moisture-by-way-of-human-breath-on-cartridge-contacts.

If after 30 days this yields zero results in terms of damage, then we can move on to try other things... but I reiterate, I won't be the one continuing the experiments at that point.

I'm doing a simple environmental test. That's all.

You're doing it right. The most basic rule of any experiment is to change only one variable at a time.

[wkdr3d]

Well what can i say i fell upon this forum looking for retro game info during a board half hour at work, i think what your trying to do should be commended and encouraged soooooo many forums waffle on and on about crap offering nothing original or new to the scene.

This thread alone breaks this trend and i eagerly await the results (I still blow my carts to this day NDS) and just about every other nintendo console that has been released (I think i have an example of each nintendo console in my collection barring the virtua boy)

I added this page to Stumble i suggest more do the same im sure it will bring some new blood to the forum with original content like this :)

Regards WKD Long term video game addict

[Ed Oscuro]

You're doing it right. The most basic rule of any experiment is to change only one variable at a time.
That doesn't preclude changing that variable in different ways.

Example of my suggestion set up as an experiment:

Control group: cartridge contact kept in dry conditions
Experimental group 1: contact blown on
Experimental group 2: contact kept in moist conditions (moist basement, under dirt, etc. - this could be helpful for finding out how bad blowing on something is compared to something else)

What is important is having an objective way of testing the contacts. If you're testing insertions of a dry cartridge you can't pop it into a NES that's just had a wet cartridge removed.

My guess is that some error or bias could creep into the results, or be artificially removed. An NES that has had moist cartridges inserted regularly will probably start to have a messed-up connector, and while I would carefully dry it to test the effects on only the cartridge connector, you see that this is really a change from the actual real-world situation. In the closest test to realistic you'd have to let both the system and the cartridge dry out normally.

To make sure the cartridges are somewhat equal you'd have to find some brand-new games to test this myth out, or do it over a whole bunch of different cartridges so you can average it out and lessen the effect of wear and tear - they'd have to be the same game, and ideally they'd each be carefully tested by the start for reliability - inserted so many times each before you start testing so that obvious problem cartridges are removed from the equation.

Doing a test with just two cartridges will prove nothing, since we can attribute all the failures to some unseen and uncontrolled variable interfering.

[TonyTheTiger]

You're right that the same variable can be changed in multiple ways. The thing is, I'm not sure testing the cartridges is really necessary if the experiment is just seeking to find out if regular blowing increases the rate of corrosion. The actual functionality of the cartridges becomes moot. You don't need an experiment to figure out that corrosion is probably bad even if a corroded cartridge does play flawlessly.

If the question is that blowing in conjunction with regular use of the cartridge is what does damage and not just blowing alone, then that's a whole separate issue on the assumption that the results of the current test yield no difference.

The fact that two cartridges with unknown histories are being used does inject some slight corruption but I think that's probably negligible provided both were cleaned as best as possible prior to beginning the experiment. Honestly, the best way to test this wouldn't be getting two new sealed games. It would be to build your own cartridge contacts with the same material but that's obviously pretty prohibitive.

[Ed Oscuro]

The thing is, I'm not sure testing the cartridges is really necessary if the experiment is just seeking to find out if regular blowing increases the rate of corrosion.
You don't say. I fear this is going to sacrifice a game or two to the evil gods of vanity and false hopes that bad game handling practices will be vindicated when they can't possibly be.

Also, my personal reaction to the thought of somebody blowing on a NES cartridge over and over is this: Gross.

[TonyTheTiger]

Perhaps a better change would be to also have a cartridge that regularly gets a shot of canned air or something. That would isolate the "blowing" from the extra crap that could come out of someone's mouth.

[c0ldb33r]

Perhaps a better change would be to also have a cartridge that regularly gets a shot of canned air or something. That would isolate the "blowing" from the extra crap that could come out of someone's mouth.
Hmmm... this sounds good.

Also, is there any way to quantify the results? I'm not sure if I can think of any way myself, I'm just throwing the idea out.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Perhaps a better change would be to also have a cartridge that regularly gets a shot of canned air or something. That would isolate the "blowing" from the extra crap that could come out of someone's mouth.

The point of this is really that people who "blow" in their games UNAVOIDABLY get crap on the cartridge contacts, no matter what they do.

[Garry Silljo]

The point of this is really that people who "blow" in their games UNAVOIDABLY get crap on the cartridge contacts, no matter what they do.

Agreed. Most people who did this with their NES games didn'tuse compressed air, they just opened their mouths and blew. Doing it any other way would not be accurate.

[Flack]

Neat idea, but I don't expect you to see anything after 30 days. If you don't, you haven't proven that blowing on carts doesn't cause damage -- only that blowing in carts doesn't cause visual damage within 30 days. I suppose if you wanted to get a bit more scientific you could use a multimeter or something and measure the conductivity before/after the spit batch and/or 30 day waiting period.

We all know that salting the roads during winter causes cars to rust, but not in 30 days.

[Cornelius]

Neat idea, but I don't expect you to see anything after 30 days. If you don't, you haven't proven that blowing on carts doesn't cause damage -- only that blowing in carts doesn't cause visual damage within 30 days. I suppose if you wanted to get a bit more scientific you could use a multimeter or something and measure the conductivity before/after the spit batch and/or 30 day waiting period.

We all know that salting the roads during winter causes cars to rust, but not in 30 days.
I dunno, not many games were blown in daily for several years (or even 30 days), so I kind of think Frankie's method is a pretty good "accelerated" test, unless one thinks that it takes a couple days of 'rest' for the full amount of damage to occur. I think that any and all damage/corrosion would occur within a few minutes; as soon as it dries no more corrosion (than in the control group) occurs. I guess how, umm, moist your 'blow' factors in here as well. To what degree it is accelerated is definitely debatable.

p.s./non-sequitur - my wife hates the word moist.

[Ed Oscuro]

Perhaps a better change would be to also have a cartridge that regularly gets a shot of canned air or something. That would isolate the "blowing" from the extra crap that could come out of someone's mouth.
Oh, I want to get in on this too! :)

Anyhow, unless somebody here swears by compressed air on the cartridge, I don't really see the utility of this step. Nobody that I know of uses compressed air on a NES cartridge, and it's not really appropriate for your control group...

As usual, Flack writes what I was thinking but more elegantly. I really just don't see the point of attempting to prove what we all know must happen in an expensive and painful test process.

I think Frankie should do what his handle says: sit back, crack open a cold one, and stop worrying about NES carts. If somebody wanted to prove that blowing on NES games isn't harmful or even beneficial, they'd be abusing science to attempt to justify a bad habit.

p.s. Guys, in other news I am going to smoke a whole pack of cigarettes right now to prove that it won't hurt my lungs years from now.

[Cornelius]

I really just don't see the point of attempting to prove what we all know must happen in an expensive and painful test process.

Actually, I think he is trying to prove to a number of people (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101712) that it is indeed more harmful than they think. I count myself among the 'it isn't a big deal' crowd. I imagine, though, that like most things it is somewhere in between: people that manage to blow in their games without spitting don't cause significantly more corrosion, people that hock loogies in there do have more in addition to 'green mold' and everything/anything else you can think of.

I'd never claim that even the most careful blowing doesn't cause more corrosion than not, I just don't think it is enough more over about 20 years to cause a significant difference. The only question I'm then left with in regard to this test, is How good a blow does Frankie give? :?

[Cornelius]

Neat idea,...

It is your idea!!! I was just reading the thread I linked to in the above post, and you proposed this experiment way back then.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Oh, I want to get in on this too! :)

Anyhow, unless somebody here swears by compressed air on the cartridge, I don't really see the utility of this step. Nobody that I know of uses compressed air on a NES cartridge, and it's not really appropriate for your control group...

As usual, Flack writes what I was thinking but more elegantly. I really just don't see the point of attempting to prove what we all know must happen in an expensive and painful test process.

I think Frankie should do what his handle says: sit back, crack open a cold one, and stop worrying about NES carts. If somebody wanted to prove that blowing on NES games isn't harmful or even beneficial, they'd be abusing science to attempt to justify a bad habit.

p.s. Guys, in other news I am going to smoke a whole pack of cigarettes right now to prove that it won't hurt my lungs years from now.

Painful?

Expensive?

You're kidding right?

It's neither of the above ... it's mostly good clean (and by clean I mean potentially gross and moldy) fun!!

And as far as me relaxing ... I pose this question ... who is over-reacting more :

me doing a neat little analog science experiment to see if a near-legendary toaster NES quick-fix is as damaging as I suspect it is ...

... OR ...

... people taking the time to bust my chops over it?

Seriously guys. This is just a bit o' fun. Let's all enjoy it, no?

I'm even SURE that the Gyro Robo carts will be rescuable even if they do get a bit on the messy side.

[Ed Oscuro]

The real problem here is that this sort of experiment is what the Mythbusters team WOULD NOT attempt.

Mythbusters tends to attempt spectacular failures where you can measure success or failure in terms of something flying into pieces.

For example, trying to destroy a car's engine by throwing it into reverse - that was a myth that supposedly had instant results.

The experiment at hand is completely counter to that philosophy. You can't excite an audience by blowing on a cartridge over and over, and you could need months before you see any progress.

Finally: Once again, it's gross and unnecessary.

I'll leave out the issue of sample size because, again, we know what's going to happen to a NES cartridge contact when it gets moist. It's going to corrode. If by some miracle it doesn't, you've goofed up your process somehow, like somehow obtaining a game that has a different type of contact pins, or not running the experiment long enough.

The only thing related to NES contacts that could be tested is how many blow/dry (hah) cycles you'd need to see degradation. But that's pointless for obvious reasons. Should I keep lighting up cigarettes until I die? I know I shouldn't start in the first place.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

... we know what's going to happen to a NES cartridge contact when it gets moist. It's going to corrode ...

The thing is, and it's been supported by other members in this thread and elsewhere, is that there was, and still are a very large faction of NES users out there that DON'T KNOW/DON'T BELIEVE that's what happens when you blow onto an NES cartridge. (I'll go out on a limb and say that it's a much larger number than those who DO know.)

Yes, WE believe it to be true ... but some people that I meet don't.

I'm sorry if I'm not properly representing the quality/integrity of the Mythbusters brand via my scientific method...I thought that it was pretty obvious that I was just trying to be cute/clever with that association.

Again, this is just for fun. I'm really not sure what the big deal is.