DP MYTHBUSTERS : Blowing in NES Cartridges

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Sorry about dragging my feet on weekly results.

While I have been performing the blowing on a daily basis, I haven't had time to really sit and get the chips on the scanner. (See my various above excuses, and add producing a new commercial for this weekend's Starcade to the mix.)

Rest assured, the results are interesting from what I can see, and I will post them when I find a moment of free time.

[dao2]

Sorry about dragging my feet on weekly results.

While I have been performing the blowing on a daily basis, I haven't had time to really sit and get the chips on the scanner. (See my various above excuses, and add producing a new commercial for this weekend's Starcade to the mix.)

Rest assured, the results are interesting from what I can see, and I will post them when I find a moment of free time.

looking forward to them ;p

[guitargary75]

Interested to see the results thus far.

[dao2]

did this project die I was pretty interested in it :S

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Not dead.

In fact, I'll update it with results in a little bit. Promise!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Final Results are up!

[Atari 5200]

Interesting results, and nice work!

[nate1001]

I have a few problems with your theory...

You suggest that blowing on the cart adds moisture which increases conductivity. Sounds reasonable, yet why then does the game continue to keep working long after, even days and possibly weeks after the moisture has had to have evaporated completely?

The moisture in human breath would leave very little, a barely measurable layer of moisture. Were talking microns here... This evaporates in very little time and is hardly thick enough to increase any connection or conductivity. Your theory hinges on the idea that a impossible connection is made and mysteriously remains for hours, days, probably weeks long after the fact. This doesn't add up. You are imo, creating more NES myths...

Also you keep mentioning green mold... Have you ever considered this is most likely a patina?... This is after all a copper alloy right? You even brought up old coins somewhere...

Im gonna go with placebo. The original NES simply had too many design flaws. It is most likely the act of removing and reinserting that solved the issue be it dust, a weak pin connection or comm between the lockouts.

I do however agree, blowing on the carts isn't a good idea. But come on, Ive revived old carts that were Blockbuster rentals. Were not kids anymore and blowing on the carts is far less "abuse" than what we did to these things when we were kids. The fact that these things still work some 20 years later...

[Red Baron]

You suggest that blowing on the cart adds moisture which increases conductivity. Sounds reasonable, yet why then does the game continue to keep working long after, even days and possibly weeks after the moisture has had to have evaporated completely?

The moisture in human breath would leave very little, a barely measurable layer of moisture. Were talking microns here... This evaporates in very little time and is hardly thick enough to increase any connection or conductivity. Your theory hinges on the idea that a impossible connection is made and mysteriously remains for hours, days, probably weeks long after the fact. This doesn't add up. You are imo, creating more NES myths...


Back in my group, some carts needed to be blown into every time we tried to use them, so that'd lend some evidence to the 'moisture conductor' theory.. It's not like just one blow would keep Ghostbusters II working for days.

In any case, it takes barely any moisture to create a contact, and barely detectable amounts can remain on an object for a decent amount of time, especially if it's not aired out.

That said, I'm not saying that the breath moisture theory is correct, in fact I'm rather on the fence.. But it seems like it could be within the realm of possibility.

I suppose one could say that my opinion is that it could be either cartridge blowing came about as an unlikely quick fix for bad connections(which in reality probably only actually worked rarely, with cart re-posistioning and luck as the main culprit helping spread the legend), or as an epically misunderstood urban legend with zero basis in reality. (It wouldn't be the first basis-less urban gaming legend if so, anyone remember holding up and B to catch Pokemon?)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I have a few problems with your theory...

You suggest that blowing on the cart adds moisture which increases conductivity. Sounds reasonable, yet why then does the game continue to keep working long after, even days and possibly weeks after the moisture has had to have evaporated completely?

The moisture in human breath would leave very little, a barely measurable layer of moisture. Were talking microns here... This evaporates in very little time and is hardly thick enough to increase any connection or conductivity. Your theory hinges on the idea that a impossible connection is made and mysteriously remains for hours, days, probably weeks long after the fact. This doesn't add up. You are imo, creating more NES myths...

Also you keep mentioning green mold... Have you ever considered this is most likely a patina?... This is after all a copper alloy right? You even brought up old coins somewhere...

Im gonna go with placebo. The original NES simply had too many design flaws. It is most likely the act of removing and reinserting that solved the issue be it dust, a weak pin connection or comm between the lockouts.

I do however agree, blowing on the carts isn't a good idea. But come on, Ive revived old carts that were Blockbuster rentals. Were not kids anymore and blowing on the carts is far less "abuse" than what we did to these things when we were kids. The fact that these things still work some 20 years later...

Heh, wow. A blast from the recent past.

While the findings here were STRICTLY theoretical and not empirical by any stretch of the imagination, I think they also produced some visual evidence that could not be denied.

There was a build up of CRAP on the cartridge that was blown on every day that was NOT on the cart that was left as-is.

Pile that on top of the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of NES (and other system) carts in the wild that have visible corrosion type damage on the contacts. Moisture + oxygen + (most types of) metal = damage/corrosion, and it doesn't take a stress test like this to prove that.

Have any pennies in your pocket that look like this?

http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/f/f9/United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg/180px-United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg

No. Most of them probably look like this.

http://www.blifaloo.com/images/1955dd_penny2.gif

While blowing in NES cartridges may very well be a placebo effect, as a collector I see absolutely no value in perpetuating a a theory that it does no damage whatsoever. (And I've never ever heard the assessment that you can keep a cart working for days/weeks after a single blow.)

[nate1001]

Heh, wow. A blast from the recent past.

While the findings here were STRICTLY theoretical and not empirical by any stretch of the imagination, I think they also produced some visual evidence that could not be denied.

There was a build up of CRAP on the cartridge that was blown on every day that was NOT on the cart that was left as-is.

Pile that on top of the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of NES (and other system) carts in the wild that have visible corrosion type damage on the contacts. Moisture + oxygen + (most types of) metal = damage/corrosion, and it doesn't take a stress test like this to prove that.

Have any pennies in your pocket that look like this?

http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/f/f9/United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg/180px-United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg

No. Most of them probably look like this.

http://www.blifaloo.com/images/1955dd_penny2.gif

While blowing in NES cartridges may very well be a placebo effect, as a collector I see absolutely no value in perpetuating a a theory that it does no damage whatsoever. (And I've never ever heard the assessment that you can keep a cart working for days/weeks after a single blow.)

Well, you didn't really address anything I brought up. Ive been examining the green on a few carts and it appears to me your "green mold" is most likely a patina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina) forming. I wouldn't really say you're doing anything more than speeding up the inevitable by blowing on the cart. Whether you blow or not, 20 years its going to happen unless kept in very controlled conditions.
A patina is actually a valuable asset, in fact the most valuable asset of almost any collectible/antique. Not that this applies to electronics... It does however, in many environments protect from further damage. For all we know this could be the reason some carts still work after a good cleaning ROFLROFL

OK
I blow on the cart after trying everything else and it magically works. I play for a couple hours, turn off the system and the game still works the next day. I just did this bucko... Id be very sure in saying if I turn it off for longer and let it sit for a week it will still work. Now tell me how does this minuscule film of moisture keep for 24 hours? Even one hour?... All Im saying is that you turned one possible myth about dust, into an even more improbable myth about moisture being responsible for the phenomenon...

Id like to try compressed air... But there is moisture in it... and I believe a can o air most likely condenses moisture in the air a bit as the gas expands.

I did however order an original NES cleaning kit after discovering your thread. Even tho 90% of my carts work in my very clean system sometimes blowing still does the trick. Im hoping the NES kit will work.

BTW I never said it wasn't doing any damage, I am simply addressing the obvious flaws in your moisture and green mold theories. You keep bring up green mold, mildew and "growth" in various threads. You do realize that fungi have very specific environmental conditions right? They require very high humidity, the right temp, and more... notice that they only grow in certain places in your home? Unless there is mold growing on the walls in your living room or where ever you're keeping you collection, most likely the conditions required will never be met inside a NES cart.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Whatever the case may be, my years of experience as a Nintendo owner since 1985, years as a gamer/collector, and five years as manager of a Funcoland during the absolute height of their NES, SNES, Genesis, GameBoy, etc. trade-in business, I've seen hundreds if not thousands of game cartridges that were clearly in some type of "environmental conditions" that produced corrosion and damage, and every time I took a trade in with cartridges in that condition I would ask "did you blow on these to get them to work?" the answer would always be a resounding "yes".

Admittedly, I'm no scientist, I don't know the difference between a patina and green mold on a molecular level, but if you review my theories with the understanding that I'm just looking for evidence of damage (or the potential to cause damage) based on moisture from human breath, then you should have a clear understanding of what I was getting at.

I Don't know what else I can add.

I don't care if I'm perpetuating an incorrect scientific theory ... if I stop just a few people from blowing in NES cartridges I think that future collectors will benefit from it.

[wiggyx]

God, I hate being "that guy" who's bumping a 4 year old thread after it's already been bumped-back-from-the-dead once before, but I can most definitely provide evidence that the ol' blow the cartridge trick can seriously damage you cartridge-based games over a period of time, and not just leave a pretty patina.

No matter what "science" one may provide as evidence in order to disprove or discredit the efficacy of this technique, in both the long and short term, it seems absurd to do so when there's an incalculable amount of evidence to the contrary, collected over the last ~3 decades by countless gamers that says "it works" (no matter what the actual reason is for its ability to do so). Simply put, people wouldn't do so if it didn't work.

Back on topic, I have an ex-grilfriend who's little brother would literally lick the contacts on his N64 carts. That's right, not a gentle 'phwwwww', but a full-on French kiss. At one point, knowing how much of a game nerd that I was, she asked if I could help him with a few of his games that were no longer working*. I fiddled with them a bit, grabbed some Q-tips from her bathroom along with an alcohol solution in order to give them the gentle cleaning that I'm sure you're all familiar with. I didn't have much luck, and asked if I could take them home to pop 'em open and have a look (I'm not so nerdy that I carry Nintendo security drivers on my person, but I most definitely have a set at home). When I did get them home and pop them open, HOLY SHIT, the contacts (and in some instances, a good chunk of the boards) were coated in mountains of buildup! Repulsive as this sounds (and it was), I saw bringing 'em back to life as a small challenge, on top of the fact that it would most likely score me some reward nookie for helping out**

I performed every trick that I knew with regards to reviving carts in this state. I used an entire bag of 000 steel wool, then a bag of 00, THEN a bag of 0. When I finally cut through all the buildup (think blistered paint on a 93 Honda's rear quarter), all I found were completely severed traces and holes (not pits) in the contacts (sorta like trying to find the actual metal surface under said blistered paint on said early 90's Honda). These things were fucked. And remember, these are N64 carts, not NES or SNES. Also, this was in 1999, when the 64 was still available at your local TRU, not 9 months ago or anything like that.

Of course I understand that this is a pretty extreme example, but if that sort of corrosion can occur in such a short amount of time, with that level of abuse, then it seems fairly safe to surmise that a more moderate level of abuse over a much longer period of time could provide a similar result.



*As a little footnote, before the question is asked, the games were kept in a finished/waterproofed basement inside a lidded plastic container when not in use (all sloppy-like, but still in a closed, air-tight container).

**I received no reward nookie.

[Polygon]

Well, since it's here I'll drop a couple of comments.

When you blow into a cartridge you impart moisture on the contacts. And it's not moisture from your breath. Because the steam from your breath will evaporate within a couple of seconds. When you blow on a cartridge, with that expelled carbon dioxide there is small amount of saliva. Saliva contains a lot of bacteria, minerals, and is also a mild solvent. It is not something you want sitting on electrical contacts, or any part of an electronic device for that matter. It will slowly eat at the electrical contacts through corrosion.

Oh, and patina is just a fancy word for corrosion.

[VertigoProcess]

Use canned air instead, problem solved...

[JSoup]

Simply put, people wouldn't do so if it didn't work.

That, my friends, is an example of staggeringly faulty logic.

[Polygon]

Use canned air instead, problem solved...

That doesn't really solve any problem.

The answer is to clean the contacts properly. If your contacts on the game are clean and not corroded to shit and you're still having issues it's the connector in the NES. Try cleaning it first, next there are ways to try and repair the connector. If all else fails, get a new one.

[o.pwuaioc]

That doesn't really solve any problem.

The answer is to clean the contacts properly. If your contacts on the game are clean and not corroded to shit and you're still having issues it's the connector in the NES. Try cleaning it first, next there are ways to try and repair the connector. If all else fails, get a new one.

Even with properly cleaned contacts, sometimes minor dust can prevent a reading, in which case canned air is a perfect solution.

[VertigoProcess]

Even with properly cleaned contacts, sometimes minor dust can prevent a reading, in which case canned air is a perfect solution.

Wow, you you beat me to saying the exact same thing by like a second. Thank you for saving me the trouble. Haha

[Polygon]

Even with properly cleaned contacts, sometimes minor dust can prevent a reading, in which case canned air is a perfect solution.

Since cleaning my games and replacing my connector, not once has it failed to start right up the first time. However, I can see your point but that would take a lot more than "minor" dust to cause an issue. But if you honestly believe that then by all mean, canned air is a great solution as long as you don't hold it down or turn it upside down.

[wiggyx]

That, my friends, is an example of staggeringly faulty logic.

Why on Earth would people go out of their way to blow on cartridge contacts if it didn't produce a result?

Care to explain?

[wiggyx]

Well, since it's here I'll drop a couple of comments.

When you blow into a cartridge you impart moisture on the contacts. And it's not moisture from your breath. Because the steam from your breath will evaporate within a couple of seconds. When you blow on a cartridge, with that expelled carbon dioxide there is small amount of saliva. Saliva contains a lot of bacteria, minerals, and is also a mild solvent. It is not something you want sitting on electrical contacts, or any part of an electronic device for that matter. It will slowly eat at the electrical contacts through corrosion.

You expell far more N2 and O2 than you do CO2, just so you know.

It's far more likely that the exhaled air, which has a relative humidity level of 100%, would evenly coat the contacts than a random spattering of saliva. Blow on a price of glass and let me know how much saliva is still there after the water evaporates. That small amount of moisture need only be present for a seconds. How long do you think it takes to insert the cart after blowing on it? That moisture will have a hard time escaping from two contacts pressed against each other, and as someone else already said, it only takes a very, VERY small amount to promote conductivity.

Water + O2 = corrosion. Sure, saliva will hasten the process (as evidenced by my story), but is NOT a requirement for corrosion by any means.



Oh, and patina is just a fancy word for corrosion.

No shit.

[VertigoProcess]

Since cleaning my games and replacing my connector, not once has it failed to start right up the first time. However, I can see your point but that would take a lot more than "minor" dust to cause an issue. But if you honestly believe that then by all mean, canned air is a great solution as long as you don't hold it down or turn it upside down.

If it isn't a dust issue then why do you think blowing on the cart works at all? Not to mention I remember doing this when my nes and games were still new to make them work. There's no way that corrosion or a bad connector in my then brand new nes was the cause of it not working the first time. Seriously man wtf?

[wiggyx]

If it isn't a dust issue then why do you think blowing on the cart works at all? Not to mention I remember doing this when my nes and games were still new to make them work. There's no way that corrosion or a bad connector in my then brand new nes was the cause of it not working the first time. Seriously man wtf?

That's probably has a lot to do with the crummy design of the front load NES :/

[JSoup]

Why on Earth would people go out of their way to blow on cartridge contacts if it didn't produce a result?

Care to explain?

Monkey see, monkey do.

[wiggyx]

Monkey see, monkey do.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/wiggyx/icons/rclap.gif

[kedawa]

I never blew in my cartridges.
I would just gently breath on the contacts, and it worked every single time.

[treismac]

(I'm not so nerdy that I carry Nintendo security drivers on my person, but I most definitely have a set at home)

**I received no reward nookie.[/I]

Had you been carrying a 3.8 and 4.5 security bit on your key chain, this story would have ended very differently.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

God, I hate being "that guy" who's bumping a 4 year old thread after it's already been bumped-back-from-the-dead once before, but I can most definitely provide evidence that the ol' blow the cartridge trick can seriously damage you cartridge-based games over a period of time, and not just leave a pretty patina.

No matter what "science" one may provide as evidence in order to disprove or discredit the efficacy of this technique, in both the long and short term, it seems absurd to do so when there's an incalculable amount of evidence to the contrary, collected over the last ~3 decades by countless gamers that says "it works" (no matter what the actual reason is for its ability to do so). Simply put, people wouldn't do so if it didn't work.

Back on topic, I have an ex-grilfriend who's little brother would literally lick the contacts on his N64 carts. That's right, not a gentle 'phwwwww', but a full-on French kiss. At one point, knowing how much of a game nerd that I was, she asked if I could help him with a few of his games that were no longer working*. I fiddled with them a bit, grabbed some Q-tips from her bathroom along with an alcohol solution in order to give them the gentle cleaning that I'm sure you're all familiar with. I didn't have much luck, and asked if I could take them home to pop 'em open and have a look (I'm not so nerdy that I carry Nintendo security drivers on my person, but I most definitely have a set at home). When I did get them home and pop them open, HOLY SHIT, the contacts (and in some instances, a good chunk of the boards) were coated in mountains of buildup! Repulsive as this sounds (and it was), I saw bringing 'em back to life as a small challenge, on top of the fact that it would most likely score me some reward nookie for helping out**

I performed every trick that I knew with regards to reviving carts in this state. I used an entire bag of 000 steel wool, then a bag of 00, THEN a bag of 0. When I finally cut through all the buildup (think blistered paint on a 93 Honda's rear quarter), all I found were completely severed traces and holes (not pits) in the contacts (sorta like trying to find the actual metal surface under said blistered paint on said early 90's Honda). These things were fucked. And remember, these are N64 carts, not NES or SNES. Also, this was in 1999, when the 64 was still available at your local TRU, not 9 months ago or anything like that.

Of course I understand that this is a pretty extreme example, but if that sort of corrosion can occur in such a short amount of time, with that level of abuse, then it seems fairly safe to surmise that a more moderate level of abuse over a much longer period of time could provide a similar result.



*As a little footnote, before the question is asked, the games were kept in a finished/waterproofed basement inside a lidded plastic container when not in use (all sloppy-like, but still in a closed, air-tight container).

**I received no reward nookie.

Thanks for sharing, your story is a much appreciated contribution to this ancient thread.

However, in my original time working on this thread as well as all the years prior and the years that followed, I found that there will always been a set of gamers/collectors that will always deny the harmful effects of blowing into cartridges and live convinced that there's nothing wrong with it/that it's a completely reasonable practice to partake in.

I am completely and totally done trying to convince any last person who believes that no damage can be had from blowing into cartridges. I've had it up to here (points at a space about a foot above my head) with people who think that the procedure is harmless and that no amount of evidence says otherwise, so please don't expect any further examination of the process from me.

I'll leave the "mythbusting" to Jamie and Adam in the future.

[VertigoProcess]

Thanks for sharing, your story is a much appreciated contribution to this ancient thread.

However, in my original time working on this thread as well as all the years prior and the years that followed, I found that there will always been a set of gamers/collectors that will always deny the harmful effects of blowing into cartridges and live convinced that there's nothing wrong with it/that it's a completely reasonable practice to partake in.

I am completely and totally done trying to convince any last person who believes that no damage can be had from blowing into cartridges. I've had it up to here (points at a space about a foot above my head) with people who think that the procedure is harmless and that no amount of evidence says otherwise, so please don't expect any further examination of the process from me.

I'll leave the "mythbusting" to Jamie and Adam in the future.

Well I wouldn't give up, I actually didn't even think about it being harmful intel this thread was reincarnated. I just started using canned air instead because its easier and I always have it around. But after reading this I will never blow on a cart ever again, the science makes perfect sense.

So there's still hope for stopping this practice for people that just didn't ever think about it, like me.

...And I am greatful for the knowledge.

[Polygon]

Why on Earth would people go out of their way to blow on cartridge contacts if it didn't produce a result?

Care to explain?

I hate to say it but people, in general, are stupid. People do crap all the time that doesn't work, but they continue to do it.


You expell far more N2 and O2 than you do CO2, just so you know.

Yeah, so what? I picked one. I wasn't trying to conduct a science class.


It's far more likely that the exhaled air, which has a relative humidity level of 100%, would evenly coat the contacts than a random spattering of saliva. Blow on a price of glass and let me know how much saliva is still there after the water evaporates. That small amount of moisture need only be present for a seconds. How long do you think it takes to insert the cart after blowing on it? That moisture will have a hard time escaping from two contacts pressed against each other, and as someone else already said, it only takes a very, VERY small amount to promote conductivity.

I guess this all depends on your method of blowing on the cartridge. However, go breath on some glass and see how long the moisture lasts. Not long enough for it to be there when you get your cartridge in the NES.


Water + O2 = corrosion. Sure, saliva will hasten the process (as evidenced by my story), but is NOT a requirement for corrosion by any means.

I never said it was.


No shit.

What the hell is this about? None of my post was directed at you, of all this comment. Someone else mentioned "patina" earlier in the thread. I hate that word, personally. I just think people should call it what it is.


If it isn't a dust issue then why do you think blowing on the cart works at all? Not to mention I remember doing this when my nes and games were still new to make them work. There's no way that corrosion or a bad connector in my then brand new nes was the cause of it not working the first time. Seriously man wtf?

I just find it very doubtful. I've work on computers for a living. I've pulled processors, expansion card, memory modules, etc with visible dust in the connectors/sockets and they were working fine. I'm not saying it's not possible. All I'm saying is that it would take more than minor dust to prevent the connection unless you had other issues.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Well I wouldn't give up, I actually didn't even think about it being harmful intel this thread was reincarnated. I just started using canned air instead because its easier and I always have it around. But after reading this I will never blow on a cart ever again, the science makes perfect sense.

So there's still hope for stopping this practice for people that just didn't ever think about it, like me.

...And I am greatful for the knowledge.

Oh, I'm not saying that the science doesn't make sense on some level, but since I'm really just a layman and had no means by which to conduct anything more than a grade-school level observational experiment with the materials I had available I couldn't really support the near-endless calls for "we want more proof!" or "in order for this to be a real scientific study you need to have this many control groups and you MUST test the materials under these specific conditions!" and the waves of scientific jargon/minutia spewed at me about the way things happen at a molecular level were simply too much for me to even know how to fit into what I was doing.

All I originally set out to prove is that blowing directly from your mouth onto a video game cartridge was not a process that was devoid of some type of reaction that could ultimately be harmful to the electronics, and yet I still meet people deeply entrenched in this hobby that swear up-and-down that no long-term damage could possibly ever come from it.

If I for some massochistic reason I decided to continue this experiment longer than a few months, trust me, it would likely become some type of endless lifelong struggle akin to convincing moon-landing conspiracy theorists that that actually happened.

I deal with enough frustrating things about this hobby that this minor scientific venture was enough for me. If anybody else wants to continue the research, be my guest!

[wiggyx]

^^^ might just do that. I'm on my way to local game store to pick up a dozen SNES sports titles in order to do some"sperimentin"...

[Koa Zo]

It is known among photographers that even huffing on a lens to create a fog for hasty cleaning efforts will wear the coatings off of lenses. Human breath contains corrosive particles, end of story.

[kedawa]

There are corrosive chemicals in the atmosphere, too.
Even the stuff we use to clean carts is corrosive to a degree.

The simple fact is that most gamers aren't collectors, so they won't own the game long enough for any real damage to occur.
From their point of view, giving their carts a quick blow out is a convenient and effective way to get their game running.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

There are corrosive chemicals in the atmosphere, too.

Double that amount if you're in New Jersey!

[BlastProcessing402]

I've been blowing on my NES games for ~25 years, and both games and system still are fine. Take THAT, science!

[Mitch]

I've been blowing on my NES games for ~25 years, and both games and system still are fine. Take THAT, science!

If you cleaned the games and systems correctly you wouldn't need to be blowing on them. So obviously your games and systems are not fine.

Mitch

[slapdash]

It occurred to me this morning, while shaving, that it's quite possible there's been related research already done, by the makers of electric shavers, on the effects of blowing whiskers out of razors, and if condensation would affect the razor parts at all. Anyone wanna call Braun, Norelco/Philips, etc and see if they'll share their results?

[JSoup]

If you cleaned the games and systems correctly you wouldn't need to be blowing on them.

Because being dirty is the only reason ever that a game/system won't work. Also, blowing in the game/system totally isn't something people just monkey see, monkey do, regardless of the actual problem.

[VertigoProcess]

It occurred to me this morning, while shaving, that it's quite possible there's been related research already done, by the makers of electric shavers, on the effects of blowing whiskers out of razors, and if condensation would affect the razor parts at all. Anyone wanna call Braun, Norelco/Philips, etc and see if they'll share their results?

I dont know about that... razors arent ment to be used for 25 years... i dought they spent the money on research like that....

[kedawa]

I dont know about that... razors arent ment to be used for 25 years... i dought they spent the money on research like that....

But they are meant to be used in humid environments, though.
Professional clippers and trimmers are supposed to last forever, but you're right about consumer electric razors. Those things last a couple years at most.

[slapdash]

But they are meant to be used in humid environments, though.
Professional clippers and trimmers are supposed to last forever, but you're right about consumer electric razors. Those things last a couple years at most.

For what it's worth, I bought my razor in 1988. I have to replace the blades/heads every few years, but it's still going strong almost 24 years later.

[Jorpho]

Haylookit, this got Mentalfloss'd.
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/142550

What exactly is Cramolin? A quick Google provides no authoritative result.

[kedawa]

That's some Myrhbusters level science (i.e. poor). The fact that it can cause long term damage is not proof that it doesn't work in the short term.
Blowing on the carts definitely results in short term improvements in the connection. It's pretty much pointless to try and argue otherwise.

[Atarileaf]

I hate to say it but people, in general, are stupid. People do crap all the time that doesn't work, but they continue to do it.



Like voting ;)

[Polygon]

Like voting ;)

Hehe, well, for POTUS anyhow.

[BydoEmpire]

Blowing in my NES carts helped get them working, but it's not something I ever did daily by any stretch. I suspect that would do a lot more harm than good due to getting moisture in there. These days I actually clean the contacts instead of blowing most of the time, but if I get a used cart that doesn't work right off I'll give it a quick blow to see if that does the trick before pulling out the cleaner. Never daily or even more than a couple times.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Haylookit, this got Mentalfloss'd.
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/142550

What exactly is Cramolin? A quick Google provides no authoritative result.

Yeah, Chris Higgins reached out to me a few months ago for an interview.

Since ultimately this thread didn't provide any conclusive/empirical/scientific "proof" that would "satisfy" anybody (here or elsewhere), I did my best to impress upon him that this study was completely non-scientific and just a bit of fun for some visual evidence.

Regardless of anybody's opinion on the subject of blowing into game carts/hardware, I think that it's is a terrible idea and regardless of any short-term results that it nets I've seen far FAR too many NES cartridges that have shown signs of obviously related needless wear/damage to advocate it for any reason.

[wiggyx]

Don't feel bad. Even with ALL the empirical data in the world, some people will always disagree. Take evolution for example...


You did a great job of collecting data and then presenting it in a way that's easy to digest. Thanks!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Don't feel bad. Even with ALL the empirical data in the world, some people will always disagree. Take evolution for example...


You did a great job of collecting data and then presenting it in a way that's easy to digest. Thanks!

Well, I knew going in that I didn't have the time or the tools to do a really comprehensive scientific analysis, so I was generally prepared for the lack of acceptance of any plausible theory that this may have set forth.

It's been over 20 years and in that length of time people strongly adhere to their own personal experiences in forming their opinions on this kind of stuff. I fully include myself in that statement.

In my time at Funcoland literally thousands and thousands of NES, Genesis, SNES, Gameboy, Game Gear, carts passed through my hands and as a part of my basic responsibilities I had to evaluate almost every single one before buying and/or selling.

Something caused all the mold, mildew, corrosion, wear and damage to the cartridge contacts of games that had them. Wherever we found evidence of that, I and all of my employees got into the habit of asking the owners of the games "do you blow in these?". Games that had that kind of stuff going on would get a "yes" 100% of the time, so ... there's something here, there's some sound logic and basic evidence.

Anybody who is still filled with a burning desire for MOAR DATA should run with what has already been done and give us some more empirical data to work with.

I'm not doing this again because I swear I almost gave myself a full-blown respiratory infection doing it.

Really though, I just wanted to do something that showed some level of evidence that the act of blowing onto the contacts of NES carts had some kind of potential long-term effect.

Nice to see your cartridge licking made the article! See, it pays to bump old threads!

[Jorpho]

(So, no one here knows what Cramolin is, then?)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

(So, no one here knows what Cramolin is, then?)

I had never heard of it before the article.

Looks like a branded formulation of anti-oxidation compound/solvent that is no longer produced under that name/by that company.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/oldtech/tempix/IMG_1528a.jpg

[goatdan]

It has been a really long time since I saw this, and I just read a bunch of it and I don't think that I replied before but...

To offset the claim of blowing in carts does damage to them, while I agree that there could be some changes to the cartridges visually, evidence that I can point to as a potential data point to say that it doesn't really do any long term damage is this...

In running the GOAT Store now for more than ten years, I would guess that minimally we have had 10,000 NES carts pass through our hands. NES carts were the most likely to be blown in because of the crappy NES connectors, as has been pretty well established. In that time that we've been selling, I can honestly say that I have never checked the cartridges that we have gotten in for damage, and because we go through so much stuff on a regular basis and unfortunately we don't make enough money for the store to be a full time job, I'm also certain that 3/4ths of those carts or more I did not get a chance to physically try before they left our hands...

But, while NES carts are easily one of our top sellers, we have never had any returned because they weren't working. We've had a few bad games here and there for the 2600, Genesis and SNES, but for whatever reason I have yet to have any returns on literally thousands of NES carts through the years.

To me, this is a pretty strong data point that while some slight changes to the cartridges may appear to take place, whatever those changes are do not seem to affect the cartridges enough that in a 25 year span that many of them are failing. I'm sure that our zero issues is a pretty unique case, but at the same time... it's a pretty strong data point.

I do appreciate the test, but I also don't think that people should be too worried about it... as long as you aren't licking your cartridges, that story was gross.

[kedawa]

Maybe that's because NES owners assume it's their system, not the cart. ;)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I know what I've seen, and just because some of you have never personally encountered something similar to this after cleaning off a mound of mold/growth from a cartridge where the owner personally admits that "blowing into the cartridge" was the only "maintenance" that they've ever done - doesn't mean that it doesn't occur.

Even if it's only one out of 10,000 or one out of 100,000, I've been fortunate/unfortunate enough to see legitimately un-salvageable cartridges.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/pincorrosion_zps6ef4d3f7.png

But, whatever. Go ahead and blow into your stuff all day long. It's your stuff!

[MarioMania]

I open my carts to fully clean it..

I still have a nasty urge to blow, I just can't help it

[Ed Oscuro]

Found this thread again after watching Gangs of New York and doing a bit of post-viewing reading. Mental Floss has a nice article on the names of various NYC landmarks. Ahem.

You know, it's an interesting thing to consider - there is really a very little amount of empirical data on even something that seems cut-and-dried like this; most of the talk on both sides is really just "monkey see, monkey repeat," or anecdotal at best. I'm still a proponent of not breathing onto cartridges because the water in breath should oxidize the material; so too will the presence of salts if any carry on the breath (doesn't seem so likely though). However, the place I see rust most on gaming systems is on steel emissions cages in consoles...that must have been kept in garages. One other thing that might be a part of this: Corrosion from contact between metals. I don't know what's typical on NES cartridges versus the interior socket's connectors, but there have been cases of corrosion in computer hardware where the pins on a part connector (for example, the connector of a memory stick) meet another metal inside the connecting receptacle.

Have any pennies in your pocket that look like this?

http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/f/f9/United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg/180px-United_States_penny,_reverse.jpg

No. Most of them probably look like this.

http://www.blifaloo.com/images/1955dd_penny2.gif
I'd be really rich if all the pennies in my pocket looked like the '55 doubled die variant there. In fact I could trade my entire collection of stuff (all of it) for a handful in my pocket, and be able to buy everything back...with change left over.

It is known among photographers that even huffing on a lens to create a fog for hasty cleaning efforts will wear the coatings off of lenses. Human breath contains corrosive particles, end of story.
I'm tempted to say that's a myth. That would only be true of the older "painted-on" coatings, at most; I'm not aware of any modern coatings being degraded by what is essentially water vapor. One of the most professionally used modern cleaning tools, the Lens Pen, advocates gently blowing onto a lens surface to help the cleaning process.

Old coated lenses - the original bunch of 'em, all probably predating the introduction of autofocus systems like Canon's EF series (1987-present; a better run for a common electronic connector than the NES socket!), are simply more prone to wear than modern coatings, a bad situation which was remedied quickly. Having a coating that is easily abraded is bad for obvious reasons.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Found this thread again after watching Gangs of New York and doing a bit of post-viewing reading. Mental Floss has a nice article on the names of various NYC landmarks. Ahem.

You know, it's an interesting thing to consider - there is really a very little amount of empirical data on even something that seems cut-and-dried like this; most of the talk on both sides is really just "monkey see, monkey repeat," or anecdotal at best. I'm still a proponent of not breathing onto cartridges because the water in breath should oxidize the material; so too will the presence of salts if any carry on the breath (doesn't seem so likely though). However, the place I see rust most on gaming systems is on steel emissions cages in consoles...that must have been kept in garages. One other thing that might be a part of this: Corrosion from contact between metals. I don't know what's typical on NES cartridges versus the interior socket's connectors, but there have been cases of corrosion in computer hardware where the pins on a part connector (for example, the connector of a memory stick) meet another metal inside the connecting receptacle.

I'd be really rich if all the pennies in my pocket looked like the '55 doubled die variant there. In fact I could trade my entire collection of stuff (all of it) for a handful in my pocket, and be able to buy everything back...with change left over.

I'm tempted to say that's a myth. That would only be true of the older "painted-on" coatings, at most; I'm not aware of any modern coatings being degraded by what is essentially water vapor. One of the most professionally used modern cleaning tools, the Lens Pen, advocates gently blowing onto a lens surface to help the cleaning process.

Old coated lenses - the original bunch of 'em, all probably predating the introduction of autofocus systems like Canon's EF series (1987-present; a better run for a common electronic connector than the NES socket!), are simply more prone to wear than modern coatings, a bad situation which was remedied quickly. Having a coating that is easily abraded is bad for obvious reasons.

Well, hey, I'm HOPING at some point somebody has the capacity and the professional facilities to be able to conduct an actual, fully scientific study on this.

I'm sure there's a way to prove empirically whether or not some measure of wear/tear/damage occurs via human breath (+whatever biological matter comes with it) on metal contacts over extended periods.

Even if what we've examined here never amounts to anything conclusive, at least we've furthered the conversation and kept it alive for so many years.

[Tanooki]

Well as nerdy as it gets on the real Mythbusters you could just go and submit all these related things from NES games to socketed computer parts for them to try out as a side thing to whatever large they want to run into or blow up that week.