Roundtable Top 100. Ever. [09/20/04 UPDATE] [Archive] - Page 3

WiseSalesman

05-10-2003, 07:17 PM

Let me register my vote against Final Fantasy VII. I forgot to do it before, and I want to get it in before it's too late (so I can concentrate on defending game, especially Mario 64, later).

It's not that I didn't think FF7 was okay, it's just that it was mediocre. Yes, it was "revolutionary", in that it introduced the world to playing a game only to see the pretty FMVs. And, yes, I'll even agree that it did bring a lot more fans into the series. But, ultimately, FF7 stands for everything I think is wrong with the Final Fantasy series today. It's characters were empty, it was all about the "flash and glammer" ;) , and the story was boring.

And don't come to me with your stories about how Aeris' death scene inspired you. I felt nothing. She was a collection of stereotypes, hastily thrown together with no real personality at all. I got far more emotional impact out of palom and porom's death scenes than I did from her's.

Kid Fenris

05-10-2003, 07:25 PM

I would also like to add planescape: torment.
One of the most brilliant and unique rpg's of the last years. Really an amazing game.

Seconded. I know it's unfair to keep suggesting stuff when we already have a huge list to sort through, but Torment is one of the best PC RPGs I've ever played.

le geek

05-10-2003, 07:39 PM

Just group them together as a (series). That opens up a lot more space for more titles, and it's just easier on us all. Most game sequels, after all, are just minor enhancements, anyway.

Lots of good suggestions, and I promise I'm reading every one.

I'm kinda up for this. We've done it this way in individual system lists, so it would be along our lines anyway... someone want to second this motion (or state why it's a serious problem)? I kinda hoped we'd be able to choose games on their own merit (for me, Castlevania II BLOWS and the original and III were great) - but this might simplify things, and if you know me, you know I'm going for "simplify".

*looks "simplify" up in dictionary*

This is probably a good idea. I personally tend to lean towards which games came up with something new and different (as well as being good and fun) so take Mario for example I would favor SMB and Super Mario 64. But others tend to like the best version say (SMB 3 or SMW), so grouping as the series would eliminate that problem.

Some thoughts:
What about if some versions don't measure up like say any Pitfall after two, or the 3-D Castlevanias? Would it make sense to note which games weren't up to snuff?

Also, what if a game becomes quite different like say 3-D Mario vs 2-D Mario?

But this may be nitpicking way early, the first task is to get the list down to 100... :)

Cheers,
Ben

TheRedEye

05-11-2003, 03:50 PM

Some thoughts:
What about if some versions don't measure up like say any Pitfall after two, or the 3-D Castlevanias? Would it make sense to note which games weren't up to snuff?

Also, what if a game becomes quite different like say 3-D Mario vs 2-D Mario?

Yeah, I had this argument earlier over Monkey Island. I only want 1 & 2 grouped as a series, 3 & 4 are their own damned things.

ubersaurus

05-11-2003, 06:01 PM

I'm just gonna clarify why I think Mr. Driller deserves to be on that top 100 list...
Alot of people are complaining about how its not the greatest puzzle game ever made. Well, what I like about Driller is that even if its not the greatest in that genre, its so unlike any other puzzle game, that even people who don't have much interest in those types of games, such as myself, love Mr. Driller. It took puzzle games and made them really sweet, and funny, and entertaining to play and watch. Few other games in that genre can do that, and certainly even fewer can lure in people who don't like puzzle games that much. It's like a puzzler that doesn't even seem like it.
As far as graphics, and sound go, they both do what they have to do. But this game isn't about that. It's just pure, simple, fun. It's been considered to be a top game for PSX and DC, as well as one of the best arcade games to come out in a while (but those games aren't cared about on this list).

Also, on a side note, the reason Robotron for the 7800 is on the list is simple. 1: Most of the releases of it after that were in compilation packs, which are not allowed. 2: It captures the speed of the speed of the arcade game beautifully. and 3: It can use two joysticks, which, to my knowledge, only other console that can do that is the 5200 version, which is inferior gameplay wise to the 7800 version.

digitalpress

05-12-2003, 08:03 AM

OK, the list is now up to date with your suggested "strikes" and a few have been added. PLEASE check over the list for new entries (usually the ones with no strikes) and "vote against" if you see fit.

Also I've voted a few out. The games that had 4 strikes that I would not have chosen for a top 100 were whacked. This included:

Advance Wars: fun game... but not "top 100" fun.
Beamrider: Ehh... I was never a fan. It's an OK game but really, in the world of vertical shooters I don't even think this makes a top 100.
Demon Attack: I loved the game and it is historically significant and still fun, but there are so many games that have done this better.
Diablo: Please. I'd rather play Gauntlet.
Double Dragon: Too bad there isn't a better home version because the game itself is worth of a top 100. Just not the Genny version, or really any other home version. Looking forward to the top 100 arcade games so I can fight for this one.
Immortal, The: Pretty innovative stuff but have you played it recently?
Kid Icarus: Overrated from day one. I was never a fan, sorry.
Perfect Dark: This is one of those games that a lot of people really love. I'm not one of those people. The frame rate seems choppy to me when there's a lot going on and that doesn't make an FPS fan happy.
Re-Volt: This is the only game on my list here that I thought "what the hell is this doing here".
TMNT IV: Yeah, it's fun, but like Advance Wars, not "top 100" fun. I just can't see it on the final list.
UN Squadron: is this really more than an above-average horizontal shooter? Again, on a list of horizontal shooters this game wouldn't rank highly for me.
Wipeout: Wipeout XL is the game, or even Wipeout 3. XL corrected the problems of the first Wipeout, specifically the "stop dead when you hit a rail" issue. For that reason, I'll fight to the death for XL but this one can get scratched. Let's not confuse the two games.

So we're down to 234 games. We have a LONG way to go. We need more people to "vote against" titles on the current list.

Nature Boy

05-12-2003, 11:40 AM

I'll throw a few more strikes out there:

Archon: I never really loved it in the day (although I did play it now and again) - and I never pick it up now. Not top 100 material.

Shenmue: Interesting game but it was missing something. Maybe action. Plus I'd never replay this game. Being unique doesn't cut it for me - not top 100 material.

Starfox 64: A game I played once and enjoyed but wouldn't ever bother playing a second time. For me, a top 100 game is a game I'm going to go back and play again - which makes it tougher on this kind of game (and Shenmue) but I stand by that criteria.

Part of our problem might be the volume: I've only played like half of the games on the list (and I refuse to vote against something I know only be reputation). I'm having a hard time believing that Mario Sunshine has less votes that Super Mario World - what's up with that? I wouldn't vote against either at this point, but SMW should be high on the list IMO. (And for the record - I agree with Mario 64 leaving the list. I *loved* it when it was new but when I tried to go back to it I'd always lose interest real fast - and I wonder if Mario Sunshine is really the same).

Arcade Antics

05-12-2003, 11:55 AM

Votes for additional strikes:

Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64)
Boy and His Blob, A (NES)
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
Gauntlet (NES)
MUSHA (Genesis)
Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES)
Oregon Trail (Apple II)
Pilotwings (SNES)
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64)
Pole Position II (7800)
Rush:2049 (N64/DC)
Slime World (Lynx)
Star Tropics (NES)
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga)
StarFox 64 (N64)
Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar)
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX)
Tomb Raider (many)
Unreal Tournament (PC)
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)
Xenogears (PSX)
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC)
Zillion (SMS)

Sylentwulf

05-12-2003, 01:51 PM

Don't really care for this setup, 100 people say it should be number one, 5 people say it shouldn't be in the top 100, so it gets taken out completely? <shrug>

Here are my strikes:
Daggerfall (PC) - - - -
Diablo II w/ Expansion (PC) - - -
Doom II (PC) - - - -
Dune II (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Frequency (PS2) - - - -
Grim Fandango (PC) -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - -
Jet Grind Radio (DC) - - -
Mars Matrix (DC) -
Oregon Trail (Apple II) -
Out of This World (PC / 3DO) - - - -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) -
Rez (PS2) - -
Sim City 2000 (PC) - -
Solstice (NES) - -
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis) - - - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - -
Virtua Fighter 2 (Saturn) -

AB Positive

05-12-2003, 02:11 PM

were the votes against from the 'other' top 100 thread counted? plus, where did it go so I don't vote against the same game twice.... gotta be fair.

...*grumbles* I can't believe FFVII has 4 votes....

-AdamG

anagrama

05-12-2003, 02:58 PM

I could happily see the back of the following :

APB (Lynx) - it's fun, it's novel, it's not one of the best 100 games ever.
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - I'd keep Saturn BM, and lose this
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - 4 Castlevanias are unnecessary, and these 2 are the most disposable
Doom (PC) - Yes, it's revolutionary, but the sequel in unarguably superior
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - Yuck.
Final Fantasy II (SNES) - 3 FF RPGs is over the top
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - It's not Shining Force
Gran Turismo 1 or 3 (PS2) - *yawn* Realistic driving games do nothing for me, and while I can understand that 1 GT iteration should be included, surely both are unnecessary?
Landstalker (Genesis) - It's not Zelda
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - 4 different Zeldas ?
Mario Kart 64 (N64) - Inferior to it's prequel in every way (except for the possibility of 4 players)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo) - Variations on a theme
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo) - ditto
Mr. Driller (DC) - Where's the 2 player mode?
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64) - I can live with slowdown if Pikachu is the alternative
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - Not one of the best 100 games ever
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - Personally I'd take II or III over the other Shining Forces, and the CD version is nothing special
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis) - Only fun in combination with the other carts
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - Bettered by several other Streetfighters
Streets of Rage (Genesis) - Keep the much improved sequel (not that this one is bad)
Super Bomberman 2 (SNES) - Not even the best SNES Bomberman
Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) - For once, I'd rather keep the original

I realize I've nominated quite a few games there, including many that I love, but we need to get strict about this if it'll ever be whittled down to 100.
I limited myself to games I'd had enough experience of to form a solid opinion (there's many others that I'd be amazed about if they're top-100 material, but cannot properly comment)

Also, it seems that the obscure games on obscure platforms have an unfair advantage here (does the Astrocade really host one of the 100 finest ever videogames?), since most people are unfamiliar with them and unable to comment, while there's always going to be contrary opinions about big well-known games (Mario 64 threatened with the chop? Oh, come on now)

Also, I would argue very strongly for keeping the following:
Jet Set Radio - One of my favourite DC games, and the reason I bought an Xbox (which has been gathering dust for months)
Yoshi's Island - I would fight to my last breath for this one - yes, there's probably too many Mario games on the list, but I could lose just about any of them before this. I really believe that it's the pinnacle of 2D platforming with so many beautiful touches, truly inspired gameplay mechanics and huge replayability.

But hell, what do I know?

digitalpress

05-12-2003, 03:20 PM

Don't really care for this setup, 100 people say it should be number one, 5 people say it shouldn't be in the top 100, so it gets taken out completely? <shrug>

Try to follow along Toby :P

Getting knocked off the list now does not make it etched in stone. If 100 people think a game belongs as #1 it will be number one but if you've been following along a) there haven't even been 100 participants; and b) I have yet to see such a title disputed. Space Channel 5? Mario 64? Seems to be an equal number of fors and againsts - so we'll duke it out with them later.

digitalpress

05-12-2003, 03:28 PM

were the votes against from the 'other' top 100 thread counted? plus, where did it go so I don't vote against the same game twice.... gotta be fair.

What "other" top 100 thread? That should answer your question :P

Plus, I stated in that thread that I wasn't counting those because it would be a nightmare to track them all.

ALL voting is done in this thread.

digitalpress

05-12-2003, 03:36 PM

Also, it seems that the obscure games on obscure platforms have an unfair advantage here (does the Astrocade really host one of the 100 finest ever videogames?), since most people are unfamiliar with them and unable to comment, while there's always going to be contrary opinions about big well-known games (Mario 64 threatened with the chop? Oh, come on now)

Don't worry, when we get to 100 we'll cover these issues. I agree, there are some games on this list I've never even heard of. For NOW, I'm not voting against them, but I'll expect those who truly know the game to argue the point.

By the way, Astrocade Incredible Wizard is a way better game than Super Mario 64. I HATE platform games, and I hate games where I find myself lost or wandering around wasting time. No such game belongs in a top 100 - IN MY OPINION :)

anagrama

05-12-2003, 04:29 PM

Holy crap!
I can't believe I've forgotton Speedball 2 (Amiga/MD/CD32) so far.
I don't suppose there's time to squeeze another onto the list is there? (I'd jettison just about any of my other choices in favour of this)

*slaps forehead*

Arrrhalomynn

05-12-2003, 04:34 PM

I'd like to give doom and dune 2 some support. They are both great and influential games that definately belong in the top 100.

These don't:
Colony Wars (PSX) - - - I hired it once and didn't find it very special or very good. It was entertaining for a few days though.

Guardian Heroes (Saturn) - I don't understand what people see in this game. Sure it's entertaining for 30 minutes, but after that it gets tedious. Maybe it's not just my type of game, but I definatly don't think this is one of the 100 best games ever.

Mr. Driller (DC) - - - - Funny little game, but not fun enough.

Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - A poor sequel to the fantastic sega rally. No need for this.

Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - It's mario, but apart from that it doesn't have much that makes it so great.

I also think all castlevania's, final fantasy's, grand theft auto's and zelda's could be put together. And I would like to see Shenmue turned into shenmue series, since part 2 is, I think, slightly better than the first part.

girth305

05-12-2003, 04:39 PM

OK,

I will keep my mouth shut about what I think should be on, but I will put my votes on what should be striked. Just cause I think these should be striked does not mean I think they are bad games. Hell I own most of them. So here we go.

Baldur's Gate (PC) - I know I am the only one to shoot at it, but not feeling it for the all time.

Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - Still think the saturn one is better, I have to pick one because its all pretty much the same game.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - Thought it was good, but not that good, give me simon's quest or sotn anyday.

Final Fantasy II (SNES) - Love it, but III (snes), VII, and tactics are what needs to stay up.

Mr. Driller (DC) - Good but not that good.

Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES) - Played the crap out of it, but not as much as the first.

Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others) - - Innovative, fun, but not more than once.

Rygar (NES) - I think this one hurts the most, but its got to go.

Shenmue (Dreamcast) - Don't shoot please, I respect it but It's not for this list.

Solstice (NES) - This is for all time here folks, doesn't come to mind for this list I am afraid.

Streets of Rage (Genesis) - We all know the second one is the best one.

Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) - No one has voted against the first one for a reason, the second one just doesn't stand up.

Tomb Raider (many) - Would this title be up if Laura Croft was not in it? I can't say for sure, but doubt is enough for this list I think

One last thing, is it possible to seperate the games that have no vote against them? Would that be a bad idea?

Take care all, don't mean piss anyone off

ubersaurus

05-12-2003, 05:06 PM

No list that has Soul Caliber but no Mr. Driller can be a valid list. Why?

Because Soul Caliber sucks, and Mr. Driller is wicked awesome.

anagrama

05-12-2003, 05:31 PM

No list that has Gran Turismo but no Space Channel 5 can be a valid list.

I agree entirely :-D

Charlie

05-12-2003, 06:21 PM

Again, if Pokemon Puzzle League goes and Tetris Attack stays, then this isn't a true "best 100 ever" list. If you hate Pokemon Puzzle League because it has Pokemon, you're not only incredibly shallow, but you're not a true gamer.

Charlie

05-12-2003, 06:50 PM

The following games I can't believe are still on the list. Kill them all.

Axelay (SNES) - - - -
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - - - -
Boy and His Blob, A (NES) - - - (seriously, how the hell did this even get nominated?)
Colony Wars (PSX) - - -
Columns (Genesis)
Doom (PC) - - - -
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - - -
Dune II (PC) - - - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) - - - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - - -

Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) - -
Mr. Driller (DC) - - - -
Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES) - - - -
Rainbow Islands (NES, PSX)
Shadowgate (NES) - -
Shenmue (Dreamcast) - - -
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - - -
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Tetris (Gameboy) (Seriously, why is this here instead of the far, far superior Tetris DX for the GBC?)
Tetris Attack (SNES) - - (Pokemon Puzzle League is way better.)

Overall, this list is really degenerating. It's starting to become about personal biases instead of making a list that contains the best 100 game ever.

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you people? Pokemon Puzzle League can't be fun because it has Pokemon in it, so the incredibly outdated Tetris Attack gets the nod instead. Nevermind the fact that the sounds and characters in it are everybit as soulless and annoying as Pokemon Puzzle League. It's not even a Pokemon game for god's sake. It's Tetris Attack with a different coat of paint. Whatever. If Pokemon had come out in 1985 then everyone here but be listing it until they were blue in the face. Nobody here wants it because it's a modern fad, instead of THEIR fad. Just plain ignorant.

The original Tetris for the GB is in while Tetris DX for the GBC isn't even on the list. Whatever... superior games shouldn't be included in a list that's about the 100 most superior games. And yet there is a chance true top 100 games like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN will be listed along side A Boy and his Blob and Shenmue.

Revolutionary shit should NOT factor in. Being fun should be. Shenmue was not fun. Metroid Prime was. Everquest is not fun. Dragon's Lair is not fun. What is this list about? Revolution? Neostagic games? Or is it about the best 100 ever?

Raedon

05-12-2003, 07:00 PM

Strikes for these games:

Boy and His Blob, A (NES) - fun but nothing original out of the 100,000's of other home games

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES) - I may be the only one but I found this game easy and was a game I only rented once and beat.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - not a top 100 game

Centipede (7800) - a top on a 7800 list but..

Bah.. I'm getting frustrated looking at all the console games..

Let me just post my top home games in no order:

DOOM
Bards tale
Zork
The Pawn
Pool of Radiance
Baldar's Gate
Everquest
Duke Nukem 3d
Unreal Tournament
Sam and Max hit the road
Day of the Tentacle
Space Quest
AD&D-INTV
Snafu-INTV
Astrosmash-INTV
SMB
SMB3
Zelda1
Bubble Bobble
Lolo
Solomon's Key
RC Pro AM
DW4

more to come..

This is a top 100 home games right?

Charlie

05-12-2003, 07:06 PM

Charlie

05-12-2003, 07:24 PM

I would like to point out that at this point, if you eliminate every game that has 2 or more strikes, we're sitting on 99 (!) games... add 1, that's 100, and that's as close as we're going to come to a decent list.

Baldur's Gate (PC)
Bard's Tale
Baseball Stars (NES)
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16) -
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Burgertime (Intellivision)
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX)
Centipede (7800) -
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Columns (Genesis)
Combat (2600) -
DDR MAX (PS2)
Devil's Crush (TG-16)
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy)
Dracula X (PCE Duo)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) -
Dragonstomper (2600) -
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Food Fight (7800)
Gauntlet (NES) -
Goldeneye 007 (N64)
Guardian Heroes (Saturn) -
Gunstar Heroes(Genesis)
Halo (Xbox)
Ico (PS2)
Jumpman (C64) -
Kaboom! (2600)
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
LeChuck's Revenge: Monkey Island 2 (DOS) -
Legend of Zelda
Legend of Zelda
Little Computer People (C64) -
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Marble Madness (NES/GEN) -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Mega Man 2 (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Metroid Prime (GC) -
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES)
Military Madness (TG-16)
MULE (C64)
MUSHA (Genesis) -
Night Stalker (Intellivision) -
Nights (Saturn)
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn) -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)
Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -
Pirates! (C64)
Pitfall II (5200) -
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Point Blank (PSX)
Populous (PC)
Qix (5200/NES)
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn
Return Fire (3DO/PSX) -
River City Ransom (NES) -
R-Type (TG-16)
Samurai Shodown 2 (Neo Geo)
Saturn Bomberman (Saturn)
Scorched Earth (PC) -
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) -
Sentinel
Snatcher (Sega CD)
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Soul Calibur(DC)
Space Invaders (2600) -
Space Taxi (C64) -
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit
Star Raiders (5200/Atari 8-bit) -
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
Suikoden II (PSX) -
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Super Metroid (SNES)
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) -
Tekken 3 (PSX)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar) -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) -
Terranigma (SNES import)
Tetris (Game Boy) -
Times of Lore (C64
Tomb Raider (many) -
Tony Hawk Pro Skater (series)
Twisted Metal 2 (PSX) -
Ultima IV (Apple II/C64/PC) -
Utopia (Intellivision)
Vagrant Story (PSX)
Venture (ColecoVision) -
Warcraft 2 (PC) -
Warlords (2600) -
Wasteland (C64) -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) -
Wizball (C64) -
Yar's Revenge (2600) -

TheRedEye

05-12-2003, 07:33 PM

The original Tetris for the GB is in while Tetris DX for the GBC isn't even on the list. Whatever... superior games shouldn't be included in a list that's about the 100 most superior games. And yet there is a chance true top 100 games like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN will be listed along side A Boy and his Blob and Shenmue.

Revolutionary shit should NOT factor in. Being fun should be. Shenmue was not fun. Metroid Prime was. Everquest is not fun. Dragon's Lair is not fun. What is this list about? Revolution? Neostagic games? Or is it about the best 100 ever?

What's this you're saying about personal bias? I happen to think Shenmue was a blast. The way that game just engulfed me in its world is something I haven't experienced since. By your definition, does "fun" have to equal "arcade?" Do adventure games and hybrids such as Shenmue not count because the action is minimal?

Charlie

05-12-2003, 07:36 PM

My argument against Shenmue: Horrible voice acting, more down time then any game I can remember, no ending. Sure, I was stunned by the graphics and I will admit that it was revolutionary, but it isn't one of the best 100 games ever made.

anagrama

05-12-2003, 07:49 PM

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you people? ...

At the end of the day, any form of 'Best Of' list is only going to produce controversy, especially one as wide ranging as this, and there is no way you can please all the people, even some of the time.
Of course it's going to include personal bias, otherwise we'd end up with the same usual suspects that top every other 'best of' poll. The variety of different approaches and attitudes to gaming and collecting here at DP is one of the principal things that set it aside from the vast majority of other forums, and this poll is only going to reflect that.

Personally, I prefered Tetris Attack as an under-appreciated SNES game than as a money-spinning licence cash-in. Don't get me wrong, I have no beef against Pokemon (I have over 200 hours logged on Blue, 50+ on Red, Yellow and Silver (each) and a few hours on Gold and Crystal, as well as the N64 games. Along with a mini Slowbro sat on my monitor. Just keep it quiet, OK :-D ) but to me TA/PPL will always mean the SNES game I was able to play (and love) in 1995 rather than the 95% identical game that came several years later.
But if that makes me extremely shallow and not a true gamer, then I guess I'll somehow live with that. Hell, I rank Space Channel 5 as one of, if not the, most beautiful forms of electronic entertainment I've experienced, so that shows what I know.

WiseSalesman

05-12-2003, 10:55 PM

It's also possible that the reason Teris Attack is getting voted higher than Pokemon Puzzle league is because:

a.) More people have played tetris attack
b.) Tetris Attack came first, and Pokemon Puzzle League seems derivative

Charlie

05-13-2003, 12:09 AM

See though, that's why the voting out system doesn't work, because there are people who are voting out Pokemon Puzzle League because it's a Pokemon game and then there are people who are voting it out because they haven't played it. Again, I thought the idea was to make a list with the top 100 games ever. And most of the time with video game remakes, games get better then worse.

Pokemon Puzzle League has more options then Tetris Attack. It has better graphics and less slowdown. But you know what, fuck it all. I vote against both of them. Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the Gamecube gets my vote. It has Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack) AND Dr. Mario AND Yoshi's Cookie AND a couple others. And it has 4 player mode on Tetris Attack. And it doesn't even fall under Joe's 'no compliation' rule because each game offers new experiences instead of a graphics overhaul.

WiseSalesman

05-13-2003, 02:26 AM

Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the Gamecube gets my vote. It has Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack) AND Dr. Mario AND Yoshi's Cookie AND a couple others. And it has 4 player mode on Tetris Attack.

Is puzzle collection even out yet? And is there any new news on whether there might be a US release?[/quote]

ArnoldRimmer83

05-13-2003, 04:24 AM

I think Mr Gimmick should be in the top 100.

And I would drop Dragon's Lair.

TheRedEye

05-13-2003, 04:25 AM

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Waiiit a god damn second. Has Grim Fandango really had five strikes against it? It's not on the list.

...okay. I want to hear ONE person, just ONE, explain why they don't feel Grim Fandango deserves to be on this list (besides "It's a PC game."). I absolutely guarantee that, if it has had five strikes, all five people haven't played the game. This isn't cool.

Grim Fandango is quite simply the most artistic video game ever created. It combines Mexican and Aztec culture with Film Noir, has one of the greatest soundtracks ever from smalltime jazz and blues bands, and is the closest a video game has ever come to true literature.

For god's sake, people, don't kill this game off if you haven't played it. Just look at this. How can you hate this?

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen05.jpg

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen06.jpg

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen03.jpg

*gasps for breath*

I know this isn't the end-all of lists or anything, but I expect more from the fine folks at Digital Press. I thought we were sophisticated here. I don't like that the game I consider to be the Citizen Kane of video games has been killed off of a top ONE HUNDRED list without explanation.

EDIT:

Am I completely insane, or was the game off of our list last night? It's sure as hell there now...

digitalpress

05-13-2003, 07:52 AM

The following games I can't believe are still on the list. Kill them all.

--long list--

Um, HELLO?

There's no possible way that you can thiink voting for a game twice is FAIR. I've registered your votes already Charlie - unless you're voting against games added after you initially voted (see your "sigh, I have no life" post), please wait until we get to 100 where you can then fight for your favorites to get back in.

digitalpress

05-13-2003, 07:56 AM

digitalpress

05-13-2003, 08:03 AM

OK we are officially UPDATED.

Just over 200 games... we're getting there.

I just want to say that I'm very glad that I don't work with some of you in real life - nothing would ever get done! Try to see the big picture here. Just because some games are getting knocked out now doesn't mean they're gone for good. I don't know how many times I have to say it. Consider the process "weeding out", and the statistical likelihood that games that no one has a problem with form a good foundation for a greatest games list. That doesn't mean they're the greatest, it means they're the least controversial - and that sets some of them up for scrutiny which is good for argument regading replacement.

Stick to the plan, you may have to be a little patient but it will work.

Ascending Wordsmith

05-13-2003, 08:23 AM

That's what Grim Fandango looks like? I can't believe I actually cast the terminating strike against it. KIDDING KIDDING LOL

Anyway, it'll be nice to see how the list rounds out. Yeah, I've had some of my favorites already tossed, and one more on the way out. But since Super Mario 64, and Sonic 3 are gone, I feel as I've done a public service. :D

TheRedEye

05-13-2003, 12:46 PM

Why was Star Tropics removed from the list? I counted only 3 votes against it, compaired to about 50 people who think it should stay (as in they didn't vote against it.)

If we're all going to vote with our personal biases, then I say Star Tropics should stay on the list, as it is the greatest game ever made.

People who voted against StarTropics:

Captain Yashiro
Kid Fenris
TheRedEye
ManekiNeko
ME

I don't feel the game offers anything extraordinary or even unique. It's a fun game, sure, but I can name 100 games that I find more fun. The RPG parts were sloppy and weird, the action was fairly clever but nothing special, and the story didn't intrigue me at all.

Sylentwulf

05-13-2003, 01:06 PM

Try to follow along Toby :P
Getting knocked off the list now does not make it etched in stone. If 100 people think a game belongs as #1 it will be number one but if you've been following along a) there haven't even been 100 participants; and b) I have yet to see such a title disputed. Space Channel 5? Mario 64? Seems to be an equal number of fors and againsts - so we'll duke it out with them later.

I didn't read all 8 pages of posts, I'll admit that :)

Arcade Antics

05-13-2003, 01:20 PM

Half of the list still needs the boot? Alrighty... here goes. I propose we lose the following:

Attack of the Timelord! (O2) - -
Axelay (SNES) - - - -
Baldur's Gate (PC) -
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16) -
Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64) - - -
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others) - - -
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) - - -
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX)
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - -
Centipede (7800) - -
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Civilization (PC/PSX) - - -
Columns (Genesis)
Combat (2600) -
Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - -
Dark Wizard (Sega CD) - - - -
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy)
Doom (PC) - - - -
Dracula X (PCE Duo)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) -
Dune II (PC) - - - -
Elite (C64) - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy II (SNES) - - -
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - -
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) - - - -
Final Fight (Sega CD) - - -
Fool's Errand, The (Mac) - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - -
Galaga (7800) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
Goldeneye 007 (N64)
Gran Turismo (PSX) - -
Gran Turismo 3 (PS2) - -
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
King's Quest (PC) - -
Landstalker (Genesis) - -
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES) -
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) - -
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - - -
Lemmings (Amiga, others) - -
Little Computer People (C64) -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
Paradroid (C64) - -
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others) - - -
Shadowrun (SNES) - - -
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) - - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) -
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga) -
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) - -
Warcraft 2 (PC) -

le geek

05-13-2003, 01:22 PM

Okay second round of cuts by me, I'm pretty sure I didn't vote against these yet...
Again, some of these were hard to vote against and I'm not trying to piss off anyone, but let's get this list down to 100 then we can hash it out :)

Cheers,
Ben

APB (Lynx) - - - -
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Centipede (7800) - -
Columns (Genesis)
Dreadnaught Factor (Intellivision,/5200) - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fight (Sega CD) - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - -
Galaga (7800) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
House of the Dead, The (DC) - - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
King's Quest (PC) - -
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - - -
Little Computer People (C64) -
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) - -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo) - - - -
Metroid (NES) - - -
Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - -
MUSHA (Genesis) -
NHL 94 (GEN) - -
Parasol Stars (TG-16) - -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Populous (PC)
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX) - - -
RC Pro-Am (NES) - -
River City Ransom (NES) -
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - -
Shadowgate (NES) - -
Shadowrun (SNES) - - -
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - -
Skaterock (C64) - - -
Skool Daze (C64) - - -
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) - - - -
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga) - - -
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - - -
Super Bomberman 2 (SNES) - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - -
Tekken 3 (PSX)
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) -
Tomb Raider (many) - -
Valkyrie Profile (PSX) - - -
Wasteland (C64) -

Charlie

05-13-2003, 05:54 PM

How many people who are voting against the Oracle Series (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) have actually played them? They're easy the best handheld adventures ever made.

TheRedEye

05-13-2003, 06:12 PM

I'm with Charlie, this list is pissing me off because we're getting strikes against games that obviously haven't been played. I got someone to ADMIT that a few pages back. I suggest that strikes are not valid without an explanation.

le geek

05-13-2003, 07:03 PM

For the record I own and have played to completion both Zelda Oracle games and enjoyed both very much. My favorite Zelda's are LOZ and OOT.

I haven't played Pokemon Puzzle League and didn't vote for or against it. I do have Tetris attack tho...

I'm sure that several games that have temporarily been booted from the list will get debated properly when we get the list down to 100.

Cheers,
Ben

Kid Fenris

05-13-2003, 07:50 PM

Okay, here's my second batch of suggested dismissals. I'm fairly sure that I didn't vote for any of these on my first pass. And for the record, I actually like most of them, but something's gotta go.

Attack of the Timelord! (O2) - - -
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) - - - -
Columns (Genesis) - -
Contra (NES) - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - - -
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - - - -
Food Fight (7800)
Fool's Errand, The (Mac) - - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - - - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - - -
House of the Dead, The (DC) - - - -
Hunter (Amiga) - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - - -
Jumpman (C64) -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) - - -
King's Quest (PC) - - - -
Lemmings (Amiga, others) - - -
Little Computer People (C64) - - -
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) - - -
Marble Madness (NES/GEN) -
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES)
NHL 94 (GEN) - - -
Night Stalker (Intellivision) -
Oregon Trail (Apple II) - - -
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) - -
Point Blank (PSX)
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX) - - - -
RC Pro-Am (NES) - - -
Return Fire (3DO/PSX) -
Scorched Earth (PC) -
Shadowgate (NES) - - -
Slime World (Lynx) - - -
Space Quest IV (DOS) - - -
Space Taxi (C64) -
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga) - - - -
Tekken 3 (PSX) -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) - -
Test Drive II: the Duel (C64/Amiga/others) - -
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga) - -
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) - - -
Tomb Raider (many) - - -
Ultima Online (PC) - - -
Virtua Fighter 2 (Saturn) - -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) -
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC) - -
Ys Book 1 and 2 (TG-CD) - -

I'm with Charlie, this list is pissing me off because we're getting strikes against games that obviously haven't been played. I got someone to ADMIT that a few pages back. I suggest that strikes are not valid without an explanation.

This doesn't really bother me, since it's clear that we'll get the chance to defend games and suggest their reinstatement (in place of other games, naturally) once the list is down to a hundred titles.

For the present, I think it's best if everyone just votes quick and dirty. We can wait until the top 100 to commence ranting about how we couldn't possibly leave out Dino Riki because it's the Citizen Kane/Star Wars/Meet the Feebles of video games and that no one will take the list seriously if such a masterpiece isn't included.

NE146

05-13-2003, 07:59 PM

How many people who are voting against the Oracle Series (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) have actually played them? They're easy the best handheld adventures ever made.

I've played them. I went from Ages -> Seasons first. Then Seasons-> ages. Played in full.. 100 friggin %.

I quite honestly think the first Zelda for GB (or Zelda DX) is better. Ages/Seasons just seemed too... well, linear.

Charlie

05-13-2003, 08:20 PM

I think everyone needs to answer honestly when it comes to voting out games. If you haven't played it, don't vote against it.

My doubts about how good this list is going to be have slightly improved now that I know some games will get a second chance. The Oracle series, for example, or Yoshi's Island for the SNES.

Charlie

05-13-2003, 08:36 PM

In defense of the following games that are on the brink of elimination.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - - -
I think this should make the list because it is the best handheld Castlevania. Everything good about Symphony of the Night, which is making the list in a landslide, is represented in Circle of the Moon. The two Castlevania games that have come since are not without huge faults. The worst thing that I can say about Circle of the Moon is that it is too dark to see on a standard GBA. But that problem means nothing now that the SP is out and the GBA Player is a month away.

Centipede (7800) - - - -
I really can't defend this game. I think Centipede should make a top 100 list except for the fact that there really isn't a good port of it on any home system.

Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy) -
It's not close to getting eliminated and I think it will make the list, but I just wanted to say that this is the best hand held game ever. Bring on the new one. Now.

House of the Dead, The (DC) - - - -
Not a defense, but I just want to say that I actually enjoyed Typing of the Dead more.

Mario Kart 64 (N64) - - - -
If we're going strickly on four player battle mode, then maybe it should be on the top 100. I still think it's got a jerky framerate.

Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - - -
If we're going to put a version of Ms. Pac Man on here, then it should be the SNES version.

Yoshi's Island (SNES) - - - -
I think this is the most underrated SNES game. It's a platformer, but it has a lot of variety. And trying to get 100 on each level, which should feel tedious, isn't at all. I don't even find the crying baby Mario annoying.

buttasuperb

05-13-2003, 08:46 PM

Metal Slug 3 is gone. Dumb.

Kid Icarus is gone. Ridiculous.

At least Twisted Metal 2 is still there.

Baseball Stars 2 on the Neo Geo is far superior to the NES game.

DDR MAX? Is that a joke?

This list is about to not be represented by any Street Fighter game? :hmm: Turbo, Super Turbo, and Third Strike should all be on the list. Hell, even Alpha 2 or 3 should make it.

Sam n Max should also be on this list.

Time to go search ebay for Grim Fandango

Captain Wrong

05-13-2003, 09:21 PM

My votes against the following:

DDR MAX (PS2)
Final Fantasy II (SNES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Gran Turismo (PSX)
Gran Turismo 3(PS2)
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES)
Zelda Ocarna of Time (n64)
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox)
Mario Kart 64
Metroid (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) - -
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Super Mario World (SNES) - - -
Super Punch Out! (SNES)

And YES I have played all of the above. I'm voting against them because either A) I don't feel they are worthy of Top 100 status or B) There are sequels on the list which are close enough we really don't need them both, IMHO.

I'll debate the following:

Metal Slug 3 is worthy and a much better game than 1.

Street Fighter should be represented.

And I propose adding/re-adding the following:

(sorry if I'm duplicating anything, I haven't kept up with this post.)

DoDonpachi (Saturn/PSX import)
Space Invaders (many)
Puzzle Bobble (many)
Doom (PC)

More I'm sure, I can't think of them now, gotta take another look at what's up and what's not.

TheRedEye

05-13-2003, 09:33 PM

Time to go search ebay for Grim Fandango

Then my work here is done.

*flies away into the clouds*

WiseSalesman

05-13-2003, 11:35 PM

DDR MAX? Is that a joke?

The fact that you don't like it does not automatically make it crap. I'm sure I can find quite a few people in our forum du jour who would agree with its placement on this list.

This list is about to not be represented by any Street Fighter game? Turbo, Super Turbo, and Third Strike should all be on the list. Hell, even Alpha 2 or 3 should make it.

You're a die hard fighting game fan, but a lot of us aren't. I agree at least one street fighter needs to be on the list, but not four. Pick the best one or two, the rest are derivative.

And, to charlie and theredeye, I have played both seasons and ages. I own seasons, borrowed ages. I like Link's Awakening better, I really didn't care for these much at all. I didn't vote against either of them yet, but I may before the time comes. Just letting you knwo in advance that I HAVE played them. I wouldn't vote against anything I haven't played. On the other hand, I wonder if butta has even TRIED DDR MAX....

buttasuperb

05-14-2003, 12:07 AM

If I wanna dance, I'll go to a club.

No, I haven't played any DDR game. I never said it was crap either.

But I can find more than 100 games I would rather play than DDR, I can guarantee that.

At least 2 Street Fighters should be on that list. One old and one new.

Where is Mortal Kombat 2?

Oh well, it's your list, I've made my points and I'm outtie.

Raedon

05-14-2003, 12:20 AM

I just want to say that I'm very glad that I don't work with some of you in real life.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~tsouthern/no.gif

Ascending Wordsmith

05-14-2003, 12:30 AM

My girlfriend loves DDR Max. Everytime we go to her brother's house, she always pops it in. Me? Yes, I've tried it and I'm not too keen about it. I didn't vote for a strike against DDR Max because I dismissed it after one try. I will not try it again... ever. My current mission is to go to her brother's house and smash that goddamn game.

Captain Wrong

05-14-2003, 12:46 AM

Charlie

05-14-2003, 01:05 AM

I think I would like DDR games more if I was any good at them. This poor white boy ain't got no beat. Still, I think a music game should be on the list. I think Samba De Amigo would be a good choice... that is if you count playing it with the Maraca controllers. I still need a set myself. One of these days I'll get around to finding a pair. But my friend Craig has a set and I'll be damned if it's not a blast to play it.

ubersaurus

05-14-2003, 01:34 AM

A rythm game is on there....
Vib Ribbon is the best game in that genre if you ask me 8-)

Keir

05-14-2003, 08:38 AM

More votes off:

Attack of the Timelord! (O2)
Legend of Zelda, The (NES)
Marble Madness (NES/GEN)
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others)
Star Raiders (5200/Atari 8-bit)
Tomb Raider (many)
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II)
Yar's Revenge (2600)

anagrama

05-14-2003, 12:31 PM

I think everyone needs to answer honestly when it comes to voting out games. If you haven't played it, don't vote against it.

So you've played all of the 251 games you voiced an opinion on on page 4?

If so, could you tell me why Hunter (Amiga) doesn't deserve a spot in the top 100?

Arcade Antics

05-14-2003, 12:36 PM

I'm sure that several games that have temporarily been booted from the list will get debated properly when we get the list down to 100.

Cheers,
Ben

See, Ben gets it.

We need to pare the list down to 100. At that point it's much easier to manage the add/drop business.

portnoyd

05-14-2003, 12:42 PM

bargora

05-14-2003, 12:43 PM

I only voted against three games because because on the list, those were the games that I had played AND that I didn't think deserved top 100 billing. I will refrain from throwing strikes based purely on genre, hardware, or reputation.

NOTE TO JOE: I withdraw my strike against Dreadnought Factor. I had voted against it because it was too slow. I thought it was too slow because I started from the first level, which my cat can beat, and did not play long enough to get to the hard parts. I have now seen that things pick up a bit in the later stages. :D

Oh, and it looks like Street Fighter is still represented on the list -- by Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge! LOL

IntvGene

05-14-2003, 12:59 PM

Suggest maybe you take the list of 251, and split them into lots of 10, do, like, one a day. Sure it'll take a month, but you can attack the shorter lists easier. Instead of someone saying game X in the 4th position on the list is great, while someone esle says game Y in the 167th position is not. You'll be able to garner clear cut boots and keeps. Any questionables can wait until the end of the 251 cycle, where they are lumped for a few more days of bitching.

I agree that we need to get some headway here, and think this is a good idea. This list needs more people to vote, or to be divided into more manageable parts that we can deal with separately.

I also agree with the Captain on part D. To me, TOP 100 means top in a wide-range of categories, including graphics, orginality, playability, etc. But, it just doesn't seem like we are all on the same page...

Hey, but if nothing else is accomplished here, we've turned Bargora on to the wonders of Dreadnaught Factor. :)

digitalpress

05-14-2003, 01:07 PM

UPDATED!

Down to 173 titles.

Keep the strikes coming, and be prepared for the defense of your favorite games that are not on the list!

Nature Boy

05-14-2003, 01:57 PM

For those wondering why more regulars haven't chimed in on this, well, there could be several reasons including A) there's a lot of posts in this thread to weed through B) there's a lot of pissing and moaning in those posts defending game X or trashing game Y C) some of us might not want to get into this "how dare you say ____ doesn't belong" type of shit D) confusion with what exactly is trying to be accomplished here.

A, B, and C. From my end, anyway.

Suggest maybe you take the list of 251, and split them into lots of 10, do, like, one a day. Sure it'll take a month, but you can attack the shorter lists easier. Instead of someone saying game X in the 4th position on the list is great, while someone esle says game Y in the 167th position is not. You'll be able to garner clear cut boots and keeps. Any questionables can wait until the end of the 251 cycle, where they are lumped for a few more days of bitching.

dave

I think we're better off sticking with Joe's plan - if only because we'd end up spending too much time debating the right plan and we'd never get around to making an actual list.

As far as CaptainWrong's post:
(a) There's really no need to weed through any posts yet. We're only supposed to be voting out the ones we don't think are top 100 games. People defending their favourites are jumping the gun methinks. If/when Civilization gets it's fifth vote I'll be ready with a rebuttal - but I'll wait until we're at that stage before ... rebutting :)

(b)(c) See (a). Besides, half the posts under any topic fall under this category :D

(d) I think Joe has addressed this concern right from the first post. I'm sure he's keeping *that* one up to date so that you don't have to wade through if you don't want to. Of course I should probably let him say that.

Remember people: stick with the program. Lets get down to 100, and don't be voting for something you haven't played. And don't bother accusing somebody of not having played a game they voted against - tastes differ.

ManekiNeko

05-14-2003, 05:48 PM

"Oh, and it looks like Street Fighter is still represented on the list -- by Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge!"

I sure hope it stays there. I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want it removed... it's one of those rare fighting games that combines spectacular audiovisuals with a rock solid game engine. Before the Darkstalkers series, you had to pick one or the other... you couldn't have both in the same game.

JR

Kid Ice

05-14-2003, 08:08 PM

Another round of strikes from me. No explanation forthcoming; yes I have played all the games.

STRIKE:

Gauntlet (NES)
Impossible Mission (c 64)
Nights (SAT)
Sega Rally 2 (DC)
Shenmue (DC)
Tenchu (PSX)
Times of Lore (C64)

Also, I noticed that Tony Hawk is done as a series. I suggest the same for Gran Turismo. (I would argue that the 3 GT games bare more similarities than the 4 Hawk games, not to mention that all 3 GTs are outstanding enough to be listed individually, IMHO)

ICE

portnoyd

05-14-2003, 09:00 PM

Port nerfs your favorite games!

Baldur's Gate (PC) - -
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - - -
Columns (Genesis) - - -
Combat (2600) - -
Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - - - -
DDR MAX (PS2) - -
Dracula X (PCE Duo) -
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) - -
Gran Turismo (PSX) - - - -
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - - -
Hunter (Amiga) - - -
Ico (PS2)
Impossible Mission (C64) - -
Incredible Wizard, The (Bally Astrocade) - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - - - -
Jumpman (C64) - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) - - - -
Little Computer People (C64) - - - -
Mars Matrix (DC) - -
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES) -
MUSHA (Genesis) - -
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn) -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) -
Paradroid (C64) - - -
Parasol Stars (TG-16) - - -
Phantasy Star IV
Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -
Planescape: Torment (PC) - -
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) - - -
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn, Import)
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - - -
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) -
Sentinel, The (C64) -
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - - -
Skaterock (C64) - - - -
Skool Daze (C64) - - - -
Slime World (Lynx) - - - -
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit, also available for PC) -
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
Suikoden II (PSX) -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN) -
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) - -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) - - -
Test Drive II: the Duel (C64/Amiga/others) - - -
Tetris Attack (SNES) - -
Ultimate Wizard (C64) - -
Unreal Tournament (PC) - - -
Utopia (Intellivision)
Vagrant Story (PSX)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX) - - - -
Vib Ribbon (PSX) - -
Wasteland (C64) - -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) - - -
Xenogears (PSX) - - -

Charlie

05-14-2003, 09:02 PM

I vote against the following games... none of which have any votes against them.

Ico (PS2)
Secert of Mana (SNES)
Halo (X-Box)
Nights (Saturn)
Samauri Showdown 2 (Neo Geo)
Tony Hawk series (various)

bargora

05-14-2003, 11:19 PM

Port nerfs your favorite games!
d00d, unc001!!1!

*6ukk4k35 p0r7n0yD*

digitalpress

05-15-2003, 08:25 AM

UPDATED!

We're down to 159 games now.

One note: I certainly agree with Charlie and a few others that you shouldn't vote a game OUT just because you haven't played it. Imagine your surprise years later when you finally try a game like Paradroid or Wasteland and realize that it's one of the greatest games you ever played. I can also see the point of voting off games you haven't played so as to escalate your personal top 100 but I think ultimately that's counterproductive. Either way it's impossible to police so we'll address these things and scrutinize much more carefully when we've got 100 and it's time to do some replacing!

Eternal Champion

05-15-2003, 02:47 PM

Arcade Antics

05-15-2003, 03:05 PM

Sorry to say, I can't take seriously a TOP 100 list that doesn't have Metroid but has Metroid Prime, and has Phantasy Star IV instead of II, as great as IV is...
And, frankly, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"WHA' HAPPENED?"
Remember:

Keep the strikes coming, and be prepared for the defense of your favorite games that are not on the list!

e.g., list gets down to 100 games. Then you suggest adding Metroid and dropping ______. (fill in the blank with whatever game you'd like to see go to make room for Metroid.)

See? Easy as pie. Piece of Cake. :)

Charlie

05-15-2003, 05:00 PM

Why no Metroid but Metroid Prime? Simple: Metroid Prime is an instant classic, the best game of 2002, etc. Metroid is a washed out relic that really wasn't all that fun to begin with.

Charlie

05-15-2003, 05:24 PM

@DP: This are not strikes... this is me trying to rally strikes against a few games. Please don't count these unless I haven't previously voted against them.

WHY YOU SHOULD VOTE AGAINST THE FOLLOWING GAMES.

Centipede (7800) - - - -
It really doesn't belong in a list that's all about the top 100 games ever made. Centipede is a timeless classic that is still fun to this day, but the 7800 version, like every other home version, lacks that certain something.

Columns (Genesis) - - - -
This is a dull, boring action puzzler. A more fitting game to make the list would be Puzzle Fighter, which is somewhat similar but much more intense.

Contra (NES) - - - -
I don't think Contra should make the list because it's a 30 minute special. It's one of those games you beat and then put away for years. It's a great game. It's a timeless classic. It's not one of the best 100 games ever made.

Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - - - -
I really don't care for this game... I enjoyed Gunstar Heroes so much more. Pains me to do this, but I must cast a strike against it. It's good, it's not top 100 material.

Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - - - -
It's a fun game, but it's not one of the best 100 games ever made. It's not even one of the 50 best RPGs ever made. It's just sort of there.

Gauntlet (NES) - - - -
This is a crappy, bastardized version of the original arcade classic. Fact is if a home version of Gauntlet must be on the list then it should be Gauntlet Legends for the Dreamcast.

Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - - - -
Honestly I liked Vice City more.

Jet Grind Radio (DC) - - - -
It's an ok game, but it's not top 100 material. Being the first game to have Cel-Shaded graphics (or one of the first games... I think Wacky Races for the DC actually came out first) shouldn't qualify a game for the top 100. There have been hundreds of games that have had more historical innovations.

Lemmings (Amiga, others) - - - -
It's an innovative puzzle game that mixes the brain-bending genres in a neat way, but it's not one of the 100 best games ever made.

Marble Madness (NES/GEN) - - -
The home games were not good translations. It's not the same without a trackball. It stinks.

Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - - -
There are better home versions of Ms. Pac-Man.

Oregon Trail (Apple II) - - - -
I hated this game growing up for a lot of reasons, but mostly because not only was this boring piece of shit the only video game they would let us play in school, but they FORCED us to play it. I really HATE this game.

RC Pro-Am (NES) - - - -
It's just a dull game. I didn't like the physics or anything about it.

Shadowgate (NES) - - - -
I liked it but I found Deja'vu or Uninvited better.

Ultima Online (PC) - - - -
I always found Ultima games dull but I tried this one because someone told me it was different. Yeah it was... it was even more boring.