Is there anyone like me at all who just cant get into Genesis games?

[Urzu402]

Do you mean, besides the grammatical mistakes?

[vivaeljason]

Do you mean, besides the grammatical mistakes?

I think the fact that you judged which game was better because you watched a video of one is pretty damn insane.

[Urzu402]

Well an opportunity has come up again, I can get Jurrassic Park for Genesis for 5 bucks. It doesn't look like a game I would like, though thats why I judged it.

[Gameguy]

I've got to try Jurassic Park for the Genesis again, I have both the original and Rampage Edition but I just thought they were decent at best. Seeing how several people here mentioned that they were good games, I should try them again. I also found it weird that you can also play as a dinosaur, since the main character in the game was against them.

For a comparison of some Castlevania games, you might as well watch a youtube video if you've got half an hour to spare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGtdwkwlMo

[SplashChick]

I usually just pass on games based on movies.

[Sonicwolf]

I usually just pass on games based on movies.

That is, in most cases, very wise. I have yet to play a really exceptional movie-based game...

[Valkrazhor]

That is, in most cases, very wise. I have yet to play a really exceptional movie-based game...

I have two answers for you:
Batman(NES) - If you have not played this yet, PLAY IT NOW. It's fucking amazing down to every last nut and bolt or whatever the hell Nintendo carts are made of. I would go as far as to say it's the best game on the NES or at least up there with the greats. The game play is somewhat reminiscent to Ninja Gaiden with its wall jumping and such. The game has this dark atmosphere to it that's absolutely tops. You have a large array of weapons that will have you swapping them back and forth as you jump and glide around the levels like the bad ass you are. Oh and the music? The word "phenominal" can only begin to describe it.

Just isten to this music... They don't make em' like this anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evmmea4zSdc&feature=related


Batman: Return of the Joker(NES) - Again, another great Batman game. It's totally different than the installment mentioned above. It's a run'n'gun shooter/platformer. The atmosphere in this one is once again, tops. Moody as hell. The graphics outshine anything on the NES, no contest; with its huge sprites and great use of color. I couldn't believe it was an NES game when I first played it. Do yourself a favor and never play the Genesis or SNES versions of this game though, they are horrid ports from what I've heard and seen.

Umm... WOW?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AttA6mWiIGI&feature=related

These have to be the two best movie-based games of all time as far as I'm concerned.

Honerable Mention(s):
Super Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back(SNES) - Great graphics, really fun, tough as nails though. I've heard that The original Super Star Wars as well as Super Star Wars: Return of the Jedi are both great too, but I've never played those two. You won't be disappointed with Empire Strikes Back though. I can guarantee that much.

Love this first stage. Captures the feel of the movie perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgqHpn19Fi0&feature=related

Gremlins 2(NES) - Fun game to pop in once in a while. The controls are great and I dig the overhead view. The graphics are very sharp and have a great cartoon-like vibe to them. This is one that totally gives me that warm 80's feeling whenever I play it. It get's a bit repetitive at times but it's still a worth addition to any collection.

Watch Gizmo save the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCrjGQll62o

I sure miss the days when movie based games were actually good.

PS: I sure wish that the Karate Kid NES game wasn't lackluster.

PS PS: I heard that Goonies NES is a great game. It was only released in Japan though and I've yet to play it. I'll probably pick it up my next time at the local shop. From what I've seen the game looks to play a bit too old school even for my taste though. We'll see. It's something Goonies related so I have to have it either way.

[Urzu402]

Willow for the NES = great movie based game.

[kupomogli]

Scarface: the World Is Yours for PS2 and Wii. Best movie game in my opinion. Sequel to the movie in the event that Tony lives instead of dies.

[bombman]

The Terminator on Sega CD is one of the best movie games released. Part of the Earthworm Jim team worked on it.

[Urzu402]

The Terminator on Sega CD is one of the best movie games released. Part of the Earthworm Jim team worked on it.


The enemies take too many hits to die, I cant even make it that far into the game. It was one of the games that came with my Sega CD.

[Snappaccino]

Aladdin is still one of the best movie based games ever. I like the Genesis version better, but the SNES version is still an exceptional game.
The Lion King also has to be up there with Aladdin as one of the best movie based games.

Also, Ghostbusters on the Genesis is another great movie based game that I had loads of fun with to this day.

[Lord_Magus]

I know this doesn't exactly count as a movie tie-in, but Journey to Silius (NES) is also awesome. The reason I mention it as a tie-in is because it was originally intended to be a game based on the Terminator movies, but Sunsoft lost the rights and ended up releasing it as a stand alone game.

Batman Returns for the SNES was also an awesome movie-based game.

[vivaeljason]

For the most part, movie-based games are indeed awful. That said, there are a few exceptions.

I know it's already been mentioned, but the Super Star Wars trilogy for the SNES is incredibly well done. I also like the Indiana Jones game for SNES.

Aladdin's pretty good as well, as is the NES Batman.

[j_factor]

Alien 3 for Genesis (avoid the SNES version) is one of the best movie games. Small Soldiers for Playstation is surprisingly excellent as well. Two movie games that are better than the movies they're based on.

[ryborg]

That is, in most cases, very wise. I have yet to play a really exceptional movie-based game...

There's a little game called Goldeneye perhaps you should try.

[Sonicwolf]

There's a little game called Goldeneye perhaps you should try.

I seem to forget that game whenever I think about movie-based games. Perhaps because it is so good that it raises the bar well above the average one.

[tomaitheous]

For a comparison of some Castlevania games, you might as well watch a youtube video if you've got half an hour to spare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGtdwkwlMo

It should be a 3 day temporary ban offense for linking to jedite1's videos :P

[Gameguy]

It should be a 3 day temporary ban offense for linking to jedite1's videos :P
What's wrong with Jedite? He wasn't that bad.

In any case there was Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Graphic Adventure. It's still on my list of games to play but I haven't heard anything bad about it.

Goldeneye was overrated, it's not totally bad but it's nothing special. At the very least it aged horribly.

[Arkhan]

Ok, everyone forgot to mention The Lion King.

that game was frigging amazing on both systems.

I think it is hands down the BEST video game based off a movie, ever.

Hook for SNES gets an honorable mention.

also, Little Nemo for NES. That game is what we call untouchable.

[vivaeljason]

Ok, everyone forgot to mention The Lion King.

that game was frigging amazing on both systems.

I think it is hands down the BEST video game based off a movie, ever.

Hook for SNES gets an honorable mention.

also, Little Nemo for NES. That game is what we call untouchable.

The Lion King was indeed really good for both systems.

And I had no idea that Little Nemo was a movie game; that would at least help explain why no sequel was ever made. Seriously underrated and one of my all-time favorites for the NES.

[kupomogli]

I never knew Little Nemo the Dream Master was a movie either.


What's wrong with Jedite? He wasn't that bad.

Well, I've never watched any of his videos, but on this one I can name a few things. His dialogue sucks, his voice sucks(although I won't say mine is any good, I'm extremely monotone,) and he sucks balls at Castlevania. The best part of that video was on Rondo of Blood when he was fighting the Wyvern. "This enemy is really easy, you just throw axes up at it." Then the axe he throws misses. The target is extremely large, it's above you, and he misses with an axe?

Seeing how bad he sucks at the easiest Castlevania games, I don't really feel like watching any of his other videos.


Goldeneye was overrated, it's not totally bad but it's nothing special. At the very least it aged horribly.

No. It's aged incredibly well. The story mode is also really good unlike most FPS games that have terrible storyline that shouldn't even be in the game.

[Arkhan]

Little Nemo was originally a comic, and then there were some theatre adaptations and whatnot, but then there was the cartoon that came out in 1989. Its an awesome movie. Go find it!



No. It's aged incredibly well. The story mode is also really good unlike most FPS games that have terrible storyline that shouldn't even be in the game.

We all know the story mode in PC FPS games is there incase your internet goes down, lol

[CelticJobber]

I never had a problem with Genesis, it had alot of great games and back in the day it was the only way to play Mortal Kombat 1 uncensored at home. I played Genesis and SNES about equally in the 16-bit era.

[Gameguy]

No. It's aged incredibly well. The story mode is also really good unlike most FPS games that have terrible storyline that shouldn't even be in the game.
Maybe I'm not into FPS games that much, but I don't like it as much as Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem 3D, DOOM, etc. I still have it with my N64, but I haven't touched it in ages.

I tend to agree with this guy's article which lists a whole bunch of games that didn't hold up(a couple I disagree with though).
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-classic-games-that-did-not-age-well-154409.phtml


Little Nemo was originally a comic, and then there were some theatre adaptations and whatnot, but then there was the cartoon that came out in 1989. Its an awesome movie. Go find it!
I've watched the movie, and it's really nothing special.

Here it is in case anybody is curious;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69637mM5-vM

[j_factor]

I tend to agree with this guy's article which lists a whole bunch of games that didn't hold up(a couple I disagree with though).
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-classic-games-that-did-not-age-well-154409.phtml

That article is terrible. Just because a game was popular doesn't mean it was better at the time. Altered Beast, for example, simply isn't a good game. It's not that it "hasn't aged well" -- it just ain't good.

[Gameguy]

That article is terrible. Just because a game was popular doesn't mean it was better at the time. Altered Beast, for example, simply isn't a good game. It's not that it "hasn't aged well" -- it just ain't good.
That's exactly what the article says, that Altered Beast always sucked. I agree with that, and I'm not sure how you missed it unless you didn't actually read the article. I mostly liked the article because the NES Metal Gear was listed, I have no idea why it's still regarded highly on some sites.

I'll just quote what it said about Altered Beast.

Altered Beast is a curious one, because it's hard to say that it aged badly. In truth, it was never a good game, even back in the eighties, yet somehow it has managed to trick everyone and be regarded as a classic while inspiring a wave of undeserved nostalgia among retroheads. Quite how this crime against humanity got to be remembered so fondly is beyond me, but hopefully we can look back on it nowadays and objectively agree that it is total crap.

Everything about this game is bad. The slow, plodding, side-scrolling combat is dull at best and frustrating at worst. The bosses are a shambling mess of button mashing and spammed attacks, the digitized voice "acting" is a joke and the graphics look like someone smeared bacon over a child's drawing of ancient Greece. The big selling point, being able to turn into a mythical beast, is stupid. Playing as a werewolf or a dragon is even more boring than playing as a semi-naked corpse, since you just hit the attack button and watch the ludicrous assortment of enemies run into your kill zone.

[Push Upstairs]

The Arcade version of "Altered Beast" is better, but its still a primitive game that is overshadowed by much better "beat em ups".

But the Genesis version isn't just bad, its dull, and boring. And this is coming from someone who loves the Genesis.

[A Black Falcon]

It is cool that the Genesis version actually keeps the 2 player simultaneous mode though, I wouldn't have expected it for such an early release... but yeah, it's dull. Not terrible really, but dull.

[Sosage]

Alien 3 for Genesis (avoid the SNES version) is one of the best movie games.

YES. It's Alien Syndrome flipped to the side perspective. Incredibly underrated. One of those games I love to play on a cold, rainy night. People that bash this title usually do so thinking "bashing movie-tie in game = easy Internet roflcopters", not knowing they done fucked up.

No one is going to even mention Riddick for the guy that's never played a good movie based game?

Not to derail or anything...

Edit: P.S. Altered Beast always sucked, just like Goldeneye. OH NO I DIDN'T! OH YES I DID!

[PresidentLeever]

I tend to agree with this guy's article which lists a whole bunch of games that didn't hold up(a couple I disagree with though).
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-classic-games-that-did-not-age-well-154409.phtml


Stop it with the indirect trolling, please.

[Ricochet]

The graphics in Altered Beast were amazing. Yes, big sprites! The gothic atmosphere of that game was absolutely fresh in its day, as was the morphing-into-a-beast thing. I know because I used to shove Shakey's Pizza down my throat as fast as possible to gain more time in "the room". Yes, the gameplay was always simplistic, and that's why the downgrade to the Genesis didn't fare well, but saying that even the arcade game had no redeeming qualities at any point is dumb. It was obviously popular because it was fucking FUN. We should be thankful its success helped spawn a more elaborate beat-'em-up in Golden Axe. (although the bosses in AB were a lot cooler).

[chrisbid]

cmon, hindsight is 20-20

name a 1988 or 1989 two player beat em up on the NES

there isnt one

the sprites were large, the sound was loud and abrasive (in a good way) and altered beast was a great home port of a good arcade game

too many of these snot-nosed brats have zero perspective of history

[Melf]

Stop it with the indirect trolling, please.

No, that article is pretty terrible, from a lot of angles.

[Aswald]

To be fair, you have to remember when the Genesis version of Altered Beast came out, it was truly amazing to see- much as nothing like Smurf Rescue had appeared on home video games before 1982.

[PresidentLeever]

cmon, hindsight is 20-20

name a 1988 or 1989 two player beat em up on the NES

there isnt one



But two:
Double Dragon 2
River City Ransom



No, that article is pretty terrible, from a lot of angles.

Yes? I am agreeing with you/j_factor :)

[chrisbid]

both of these games were released in early 1990

[PresidentLeever]

both of these games were released in early 1990

So there's only a 4 months difference if you go by the US release, and the games are still exponentially better.

[Urzu402]

My new top 5. I just got TMNT the Hyperstone Heist today and played it

1. Castlevania Bloodlines
2. Shinobi III
3. Mega Turrican
4. TMNT Hyperstone Heist
5. Streets of Rage 2

I mean I can stand certain big sprites like in Hyperstone Heist and Streets of Rage 2, and there are some I can't like Golden Axe i hate the design of Golden Axe. Also the Quality of the voices in Hyperstone Heist are lol-worthy.

[chrisbid]

So there's only a 4 months difference if you go by the US release, and the games are still exponentially better.


exponentially? seriously? adjective inflation is a serious problem in this country, do your part and choose more appropriate words

once again, altered beast was a great port of an arcade game. double dragon ii on the nes solved the 2-player problem plaguing the first game to a fault, but the game itself was only inspired by the arcade original.

river city ransoms claim to fame was to distance the beat em up even further from its arcade roots by adding dialogue and shopping.

altered beast on the genesis embraced the arcade original. large sprites, digitzed voices, 2-player simultanious play, credits, and between-round cinemas are all there. for fans of arcade games of the time, the port was stunning. when double dragon ii and river city ransom came out a few months later, no hc gamer jaws were dropping.


5 (not four) calender months may not look like much, but the two dates in question were in different years... different decades, actually. the gulf widens even more when you throw in a christmas season in between the two dates.

anywho, the crux of the arguement was that altered beast was never a good game. that simply isnt true. it wasnt a blockbuster in its day, but it showed sega was a company that still acknowledged the existence of the arcade and the genesis was the system to bring arcade games home.

[PresidentLeever]

exponentially? seriously? adjective inflation is a serious problem in this country, do your part and choose more appropriate words

once again, altered beast was a great port of an arcade game. double dragon ii on the nes solved the 2-player problem plaguing the first game to a fault, but the game itself was only inspired by the arcade original.

river city ransoms claim to fame was to distance the beat em up even further from its arcade roots by adding dialogue and shopping.

altered beast on the genesis embraced the arcade original. large sprites, digitzed voices, 2-player simultanious play, credits, and between-round cinemas are all there. for fans of arcade games of the time, the port was stunning. when double dragon ii and river city ransom came out a few months later, no hc gamer jaws were dropping.

5 (not four) calender months may not look like much, but the two dates in question were in different years... different decades, actually. the gulf widens even more when you throw in a christmas season in between the two dates.

anywho, the crux of the arguement was that altered beast was never a good game. that simply isnt true. it wasnt a blockbuster in its day, but it showed sega was a company that still acknowledged the existence of the arcade and the genesis was the system to bring arcade games home.

Perhaps, but I don't live in your country ;)

A bad game doesn't suddenly become great because it is arcade perfect. While Altered Beasts graphics did impress me as a kid, the NES games I mentioned were way ahead of it in terms of gameplay balance and substance. They were great games, not just credit-munching eye candy.

Hardcore gamers? I didn't know the term even existed at the time, and I've never seen it used synonymously with graphics whore or "arcade game fan".

When the 2000s arrived, did you feel like it was a new era for video games and that the bar had suddenly been raised? Altered Beast didn't even have any noticeable influence on its genre while RCR and DD spawned sequels and seem fondly remembered by most people today.

[Gameguy]

cmon, hindsight is 20-20

name a 1988 or 1989 two player beat em up on the NES

there isnt one

the sprites were large, the sound was loud and abrasive (in a good way) and altered beast was a great home port of a good arcade game

too many of these snot-nosed brats have zero perspective of history
Why stop with the NES? The SMS version of Double Dragon still had two-player co-op. Didn't that come out in 1989? I honestly can't find a release date for it but I think it came out before the Genesis version of Altered Beast. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't find a specific date.

I guess I missed the boat as I only got the Genesis in 1991, 2 years after Altered Beast supposedly blew everyone away. If only I got the system 2 years earlier I would be in love with this game, I missed history by 2 years. I grew up with the Genesis, it's my favourite system, and I don't like Altered Beast. I play games by myself so two-player co-op does nothing for me. Even though I grew up with the Genesis, I'd rather play Pong or Space Invaders than Altered Beast(I seriously like Pong and Space Invaders). I actually like older games so I can appreciate the history, but for me to keep playing a game I have to like playing it, not just because a game is important to history.

For the record, Sega only became a major competitor with the SNES once they bundled Sonic with it. Even though the system came out 2 years before the SNES giving plenty of time to get a bigger customer base it only could really compete with the SNES because of Sonic. Altered Beast wasn't great, and most people only bought the system when the marketing was changed and an actual good game was bundled with it. Altered Beast was just decent. Though there might not have been too many two-player co-op games available for home consoles there were plenty of other arcade games that did and were available before the home version of Altered Beast, why would anyone settle for a home port of Altered Beast instead of keep playing the better games at the arcade?


anywho, the crux of the arguement was that altered beast was never a good game. that simply isnt true. it wasnt a blockbuster in its day, but it showed sega was a company that still acknowledged the existence of the arcade and the genesis was the system to bring arcade games home.
It basically showed off the then powerful Genesis hardware, which is why people bought the system. I was never into having a new system simply because it had better graphics or hardware than anything else, I'm only interested in how good the games play on it. You won't see me waiting in line for a console launch, I don't feel the need to get something right away just so I'll have the "best" system available.

I just don't like Altered Beast or Goldeneye, and it's not because I'm a snot-nosed brat. I won't press this anymore as it seems some people are getting offended by it. Also, I did mention that there were things with the article that I didn't agree with, it's very far from perfect.

[Sosage]

There is no hindsight here. There is, however, someone wearing a couple of pairs of rose-colored goggles. Altered Beast's gameplay on both platforms was mediocre for the time (and any time afterwards). It was the Kung-Fu formula, slowed way the hell down with the occasional platform to add interest (although IIRC, no pits...just stuff to jump on). The game only handed you it's most interesting and exciting abilities at the final 1/4 of the level where they were required for the boss fight.

The graphics sold that thing and sucked everyone in. Nice graphics. Actually, some cool sounds. "Enh" gameplay. Good presentation or not, Altered Beast is no Golden Axe. You see what I did there? :)

[Push Upstairs]

I guess I missed the boat as I only got the Genesis in 1991, 2 years after Altered Beast supposedly blew everyone away. If only I got the system 2 years earlier I would be in love with this game, I missed history by 2 years. I grew up with the Genesis, it's my favourite system, and I don't like Altered Beast. I play games by myself so two-player co-op does nothing for me.

Well I got a Genesis in 1992, so I missed history by *THREE YEARS*. THREE YEARS!

I'll have to give up my Genesis collection now, seeing as how I don't like "Altered Beast". I guess I'm just not a true Genesis fan. :(

[sixwayshot]

I got a Genesis in 2000 or so, when the dreamcast was produced. I've been buying a lot of games recently due to semi-local Play N Trade (Most Genesis games are $3) that I spend most of my money at. I've been getting a hold of pretty much every game I can that looks good, even stuff like Columns III and Hard Drivin'. The prices are cheap enough that it's not a gigantic loss to buy a bad game every so often.

[Dire 51]

I guess I missed the boat as I only got the Genesis in 1991, 2 years after Altered Beast supposedly blew everyone away. If only I got the system 2 years earlier I would be in love with this game, I missed history by 2 years.
Speaking only as a representative of a section of the Central Florida area in the fall of 1989, Altered Beast did blow everyone that knew anything about videogames away then. No one had seen a game that came that close to its arcade original until then. It was insane to think we were finally got to have a near-arcade experience at home without spending thousands of dollars on a arcade cab. The same feeling was repeated when Golden Axe and Ghouls 'N Ghosts showed up.

Altered Beast may not be the greatest game (I have a soft spot for it and find it to be fun, but that's me), but it was still mindboggling at a time that everyone was still used to strictly 8-bit graphics and sounds aside from the arcade or high end computers.


Altered Beast wasn't great, and most people only bought the system when the marketing was changed and an actual good game was bundled with it.
Not true. The Genesis sold extremely well, more on the strength of games like Golden Axe, Ghouls 'N Ghosts, The Revenge of Shinobi and Phantasy Star II than Altered Beast, which most people I know/knew considered to be nothing more than a nice freebie, myself included. To say it didn't sell well until a "good" game was bundled with it isn't being fair to the games that did sell the system while Sonic was still just a twinkle in Sega's eye.

[GameBoyGeek]

Well I got a Genesis in 1992, so I missed history by *THREE YEARS*. THREE YEARS!

I'll have to give up my Genesis collection now, seeing as how I don't like "Altered Beast". I guess I'm just not a true Genesis fan. :(

Yeah I'm right there with you. Guess i'll just go set my Genesis games on fire and lock myself in my closet and cry because altered beast fucking blows man.

I watched a review of it on screwattack I think it was and i thought hmm this sounds great looks fun I'll pick it up when i see it. So a few weeks later im in a movie trading company and i see it sitting on a shelf in all its glory with the box in mint condition with the instruction book in mint condition no sticker damage on the game, all of that for ONLY 2.99!!!!........THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WARNING!!!!!!!!!! Anyway I pick it up go home and plug it in only to find my self 5 minutes in wanting my money back. Waist of time and I dont understand why everyone has a woody over this game it blows pure and simple. Hyperstone hyste was better than this Ghostbusters was better than this and no I'm not talking about the master system ghostbusters im talking about the 16 bit gb game.


Lets look at the facts people and for go all the bull shit. Yes the master system most of the time had better graphics which is what helped those games sell. The graphics on altered beast are good for what they are supposed to be but just because a game is "pretty" doesn't make it a good game. Damn when are people going to wise up to that? It's still going on even in todays market. "OH MAN I WANT THAT CONSOLE LOOK AT HOW CLEAR AND CLEAN IT IS!!!!!! THE GAMES LOOK SO AWSOME!!!!!!" You know that there are like.....30 games for that system and its been out on the market for 3 years now right? "SO WHAT?!!......ITS PRETTY!!!!!!"......Idiots.

[Gameguy]

Speaking only as a representative of a section of the Central Florida area in the fall of 1989, Altered Beast did blow everyone that knew anything about videogames away then. No one had seen a game that came that close to its arcade original until then. It was insane to think we were finally got to have a near-arcade experience at home without spending thousands of dollars on a arcade cab. The same feeling was repeated when Golden Axe and Ghouls 'N Ghosts showed up.

Altered Beast may not be the greatest game (I have a soft spot for it and find it to be fun, but that's me), but it was still mindboggling at a time that everyone was still used to strictly 8-bit graphics and sounds aside from the arcade or high end computers.
I respect your reasoning for liking it, thanks for not calling me a snot-nosed brat. I do feel that it was mostly liked for it's technical aspects rather than gameplay, and it's still liked today mostly because of nostalgia. I actually own a copy myself so I don't completely hate it like it's the worst game ever, but whenever I want to play my Genesis I never seem to play it. I go for other titles instead, and compared to the other games offered on the Genesis it's one of the weaker titles(it is a launch title though). It's great when games have impressive technical features but to me the gameplay has to back it up, otherwise it's like a tech demo to me.


Not true. The Genesis sold extremely well, more on the strength of games like Golden Axe, Ghouls 'N Ghosts, The Revenge of Shinobi and Phantasy Star II than Altered Beast, which most people I know/knew considered to be nothing more than a nice freebie, myself included. To say it didn't sell well until a "good" game was bundled with it isn't being fair to the games that did sell the system while Sonic was still just a twinkle in Sega's eye.
I was a bit too young then to be fully aware of all the consoles and the competition between them that was happening at the time, but I did read a lot of articles that went into great detail on the subject. I'll just list my references with some quotes from them. I do like those other games you mentioned, mostly Golden Axe which I believe was actually made by the same developer as Altered Beast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_game_consoles_(fourth_generation) #Sega_Mega_Drive.2FGenesis

Sega initially had a hard time overcoming Nintendo's ubiquitous presence in the American consumer's home. That changed in late 1990, as Sega built their marketing campaign around their new mascot Sonic the Hedgehog, pushing the Genesis as the "cooler" alternative to Nintendo's console and inventing the term "Blast Processing" to suggest that the Genesis was capable of handling games with faster motion than the SNES. Their advertising was often directly adversarial, leading to commercials such as "Genesis does what Nintendon't" and the "'SEGA!' scream".

http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=61&title=Genesis:%20A%20New%20Beginning

Let us take a moment to focus on a common observation made by most gamers about the Genesis in those early days. The biggest complaint by far was about the games. It wasn't that they lacked in ear and eye candy - that much was obvious. What they lacked was good gameplay. Sega knew full well that good games would push system sales, so they had made sure that top-notch ports of many of their hit arcade titles were available as soon as the system was launched. Unfortunately for Sega, what worked well as an arcade game did not necessarily work well as a home console game. Players did not have to worry anymore about having a pocketful of quarters to learn how to beat the bad guys and move on to the next level. They could take as much time as they wanted, and many of them did. Soon, complaints such as "short," "shallow," and "repetitive" became all too common on the Genesis scene. The expected success of Sega's near-perfect arcade ports never materialized. For example, the pack-in arcade conversion of Altered Beast was soundly criticized by all hands as being far too short for a home console game. Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, a game upon which Sega had reportedly spent millions in securing the rights, was derided for endlessly repetitive gameplay. A common theme was beginning to emerge regarding Sega's first-generation Genesis games - great-looking but no gameplay. Even Sega's early dedicated Genesis efforts suffered from this affliction. Castle of Illusion and Fantasia, both Mickey Mouse games produced under license from Disney, set new standards for sprite animation in a video game yet played little better than their ported arcade predecessors. Sega's games may have looked better than Nintendo's, but they didn't seem to play any better. It was evident that better-playing games would have to be produced before the Genesis suffered the same fate as NEC's new system.

http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=245&title=Tom%20Kalinske:%20American%20Samurai

After quick and careful study of Sega's established marketing strategy, SOA's new president set off to Japan to inform Nakayama that a change in tactics was needed. He wanted to continue to tackle Nintendo head-on and directly compare the Genesis to the SNES through a slick new advertising campaign. Though Katz had been the originator of the strategy with his Genesis does what Nintendon't campaign, Kalinske felt Sega needed to go for the throat. It wasn't enough to simply compete directly with Nintendo; the competition needed to be humbled, ridiculed, and portrayed as having the inferior product. Nakayama, who was not accustomed to such a philosophy, didn't understand. Moreover, Sega's board of directors practically called for the upstart American's head. In the end, however, the ruler of all things Sega was convinced and gave Kalinske his full support. Kalinske himself recalls how events unfolded during that fateful trip to Japan:

After my first month as CEO, I told Mr. Nakayama, "You have to get rid of Altered Beast, the title that's bundled with Genesis. It sounds like devil worship. We have to get the price down to $149, and we have to develop more American software." The board spoke for two hours in Japanese and I was just sitting there, not understanding a word. Finally Mr. Nakayama said, "No one here agrees with anything you've said." I thought mine was going to be the shortest career in the business. But as I was walking out, he said, "But I hired you to make the decisions for Europe and the Americas, so go ahead and do it."

That's when Sega set the gaming world on fire.

[genesisguy]

This Genesis guy missed Altered Beast as well. I got mine in the Christmas of 1992 or maybe it was '91. But it was the Sonic 1 pack and I remember that being the game that totally blew me away and made me want the Genesis.

[Dire 51]

I respect your reasoning for liking it, thanks for not calling me a snot-nosed brat.
No problem. I see no reason to hurl insults, especially when they aren't warranted.


I do feel that it was mostly liked for it's technical aspects rather than gameplay, and it's still liked today mostly because of nostalgia. I actually own a copy myself so I don't completely hate it like it's the worst game ever, but whenever I want to play my Genesis I never seem to play it. I go for other titles instead, and compared to the other games offered on the Genesis it's one of the weaker titles(it is a launch title though). It's great when games have impressive technical features but to me the gameplay has to back it up, otherwise it's like a tech demo to me.
Believe me, there are many many other Genesis games that I own that I'd rather play than Altered Beast, but it's fun to fire up and play through every so often.

I have to wonder where everyone's coming up with this "all these nostalgic gamers love Altered Beast" idea, though. I've never met or seen anyone, either online on in real life, that's ever gushed over Altered Beast like it was the greatest game ever made. If there's some kind of Altered Beast fan club out there somewhere, I didn't get the invite.

Altered Beast is slightly below average, it's always been slightly below average and always will be slightly below average. But I still like it for what it is.

On a side note, the SMS port was absolutely horrendous and should never even have been tried. It's almost as bad as the SMS ports of ESWAT and Strider.


I was a bit too young then to be fully aware of all the consoles and the competition between them that was happening at the time, but I did read a lot of articles that went into great detail on the subject. I'll just list my references with some quotes from them. I do like those other games you mentioned, mostly Golden Axe which I believe was actually made by the same developer as Altered Beast.
Yeah, Team Shinobi IIRC.

Keep in mind, I only speak from experience and the small section of Central Florida that I lived in (an area which encompassed five towns), rather than claiming to be an expert on the corporate and marketing side of it. The majority of the people that I talked to that played videogames at the time had an NES, but after that the most owned console was the Genesis. I knew one person that had an SMS and no one there that owned a TG16.

But going on that and what I remember from the various letters to videogame mags at the time (EGM, VG&CE, GamePro mainly), aside from being initially wowed by Altered Beast, no one was buying the Genesis so they could get it. They wanted the other games I mentioned and then some. That was what ultimately pushed the Genesis ahead before the SNES was released. Yes, Sonic did push the Genesis up even further, but it wasn't like the Genesis was just wallowing and barely holding its own until Sonic came along and saved it.

On that note (and I hope Melf sees this), I have to ask exactly what sources Sega-16 got this info from:


Soon, complaints such as "short," "shallow," and "repetitive" became all too common on the Genesis scene. The expected success of Sega's near-perfect arcade ports never materialized. For example, the pack-in arcade conversion of Altered Beast was soundly criticized by all hands as being far too short for a home console game. Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, a game upon which Sega had reportedly spent millions in securing the rights, was derided for endlessly repetitive gameplay. A common theme was beginning to emerge regarding Sega's first-generation Genesis games - great-looking but no gameplay. Even Sega's early dedicated Genesis efforts suffered from this affliction. Castle of Illusion and Fantasia, both Mickey Mouse games produced under license from Disney, set new standards for sprite animation in a video game yet played little better than their ported arcade predecessors. Sega's games may have looked better than Nintendo's, but they didn't seem to play any better.
I avidly read all the mags I mentioned before and talked to many people who were playing the Genesis, and not once do I ever recall any of that ever coming up. Not in magazine reader mailbags, not in personal conversations. I remember someone writing in once to EGM complaining about how the Genesis controller handled like "a car with no tires" in comparison to the TG16's TurboPad, but that was about it.

And on a personal note, while I do agree with the article's assessment of Fantasia, to say that Castle of Illusion didn't play very well is ludicrous. That's one of the smoothest platformers I've ever played, and still gets played regularly at my house today.

[Melf]

He's quoting Sam Pettus' Sega Base article on the Genesis - "Genesis: A New Beginning." Sega-16 is just one of a few sites that host the article.

Altered Beast is not a deep game by any means, but the importance it played in launching the Genesis cannot be understated. I wrote an article (http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=366&title=Double%20Take:%20Altered%20Beast) on just this very topic a while back.

And Castle of Illusion is pure platforming goodness. I doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Fantasia, unless you're talking about a great Mickey game looks compared to a pure garbage one.

[Ed Oscuro]

cmon, hindsight is 20-20

name a 1988 or 1989 two player beat em up on the NES

there isnt one

the sprites were large, the sound was loud and abrasive (in a good way) and altered beast was a great home port of a good arcade game

too many of these snot-nosed brats have zero perspective of history
And even if one didn't care about the historical perspective, it's still not the worst game out there, like Melf says.

Nice article on the 20th Anniversary of Altered Beast, by the way, Melf.

Author of that article really is trying too hard to stay relevant (and coming off like a ditz in the process). Slagging Half-Life because of the graphics? I still think HL looks fine. It looks better today than Quake III, in my view, and doesn't look any worse than a whole host of LithTech games. What's more, it runs on far inferior hardware.

Goldeneye's not a bad game. Sure, the graphics give folks headaches, but the gameplay counts and that's still good.

[Dire 51]

He's quoting Sam Pettus' Sega Base article on the Genesis - "Genesis: A New Beginning." Sega-16 is just one of a few sites that host the article.
Ah, I see. I have to wonder where those "stats" came from in the first place then.


Altered Beast is not a deep game by any means, but the importance it played in launching the Genesis cannot be understated. I wrote an article (http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=366&title=Double%20Take:%20Altered%20Beast) on just this very topic a while back.
Fantastic article, Melf. Anyone that wants to slag Altered Beast completely should read that to get a proper perspective on things.


And Castle of Illusion is pure platforming goodness. I doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Fantasia, unless you're talking about a great Mickey game looks compared to a pure garbage one.
Hear hear!

[Sosage]

Goldeneye's not a bad game. Sure, the graphics give folks headaches, but the gameplay counts and that's still good.

I'm following you until this part (well...or the HL being visually better than Q3...kind of a weird comparison, but I agree it still looks nice). I remember playing this with a group of friends when everyone was going ape shit over it. Everyone in the house seemed to "get it" except for me. Jaded from Doom and Quake maybe? I can only gather that it's popularity was from two things: 1) a lot of its audience just never played a multiplayer FPS until Goldeneye (which can be really exciting and memorable even if the game is a terd). 2) at the time it provided the cool social aspect of playing a FPS in the same room with the same people. All you had to do was have a copy of the game, one N64 and four controllers. Wasn't nearly as involved as lan'ing Quake or Doom II at the time.

Massively overrated in my opinion. Significant? Yes. Good...ennnnhhhhhhhh *makes bad beer face*

[Gameguy]

And on a personal note, while I do agree with the article's assessment of Fantasia, to say that Castle of Illusion didn't play very well is ludicrous. That's one of the smoothest platformers I've ever played, and still gets played regularly at my house today.
I agree with that, I still like playing Castle of Illusion.


But going on that and what I remember from the various letters to videogame mags at the time (EGM, VG&CE, GamePro mainly), aside from being initially wowed by Altered Beast, no one was buying the Genesis so they could get it. They wanted the other games I mentioned and then some. That was what ultimately pushed the Genesis ahead before the SNES was released. Yes, Sonic did push the Genesis up even further, but it wasn't like the Genesis was just wallowing and barely holding its own until Sonic came along and saved it.
I foolishly left out a major quote from one of the pages I posted earlier(the one about Tom Kalinske, not the one that talks bad about Castle of Illusion), a specific quote about the market share the Genesis had. Jumping from 8% to 55% market share is a big jump, and that only happened after the marketing went in a new direction.


Kalinske's plan could be summed up in four simple steps:

* Aggressively market the Genesis in the U.S., the biggest market in the world (believe it). This lead to the implementation of the "Sega Scream," one of the most recognizable ad campaigns ever. (Once more, it must be noted that the idea of directly advertising against Nintendo did not originate with Kalinske. Former Sega president Michael Katz originally challenged the big "N" with the famous Genesis Does what Nintendon't ads shortly after the Genesis launched.)
* Make people aware of the speed and power of the new system.
* Gear advertising towards the new, "cool" market that was buying the Genesis.
* Drop the price of the Genesis and switch Altered Beast for Sonic The Hedgehog as the pack-in.

Sounds easy enough. During probably the only period during the Genesis era where Japan's management really knew what it was doing (as it relates to the U.S.), all of Kalinske's suggestions were implemented. To say it worked would be a gross understatement. By 1992, Sega had 55% of the market locked up (up from a measly 8%). Even more impressive, the company had grown from a $813 million dollar company in 1989 to a $3.6 billion dollar conglomerate in 1993.


Every few years I may try out Altered Beast again, and though for a few minutes it's ok just to play for a bit I still think it's a bad game overall. Maybe I just have a higher expectation for games in general. I usually either consider games to be great, good, or bad. That's how I classify games, I don't think all bad games are the worst that were ever made but I still don't think they're good. Pretty much the only reason why I still have Altered Beast is because I'm into the Genesis and it's a big part of it's history. I can't play it for hours on end, I just can't.

I'd like to point out that Melf's article basically said what I said earlier in this thread. Altered Beast showed off what the then new Genesis hardware could do, the gameplay wasn't that good. It was more like a tech demo.

I'm impressed with the Duke Nukem 3D port that came out on the Mega Drive, it shouldn't even be possible to be made for the system, yet it's real. Every so often I play it on an emulator, and though I'm impressed with it I still consider it a bad game. It's nowhere near as good as the original PC version and plays very poorly, yet I'm still impressed that it could come out for the Mega Drive.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Except for Castlevania Bloodlines i cant seem to get into Genesis games. mainly because most games use like oversized sprites for main characters and dont feel as polished possibly as SNES games what would be some Genesis games i would like?

Someone may have said this already, but I found the games to show much more sparkle after buying an s-video modded Genesis. When it is played through RF, it's like playing with a blanket over your head.

[Dire 51]

I foolishly left out a major quote from one of the pages I posted earlier(the one about Tom Kalinske, not the one that talks bad about Castle of Illusion), a specific quote about the market share the Genesis had. Jumping from 8% to 55% market share is a big jump, and that only happened after the marketing went in a new direction.
Yeah, but if I'm reading that quote right, it means that Sega had that 8% share in 1989, which sounds about right what with coming off the failed Master System and *just* debuting the Genesis that fall. There's no word on how much market share Sega had between 1989 and 1992. I'd like to see the hard data on how much market share Sega had in 1990 and 1991, back when the famous "Genesis Does What Nintendon't" campaign (and the lesser known H.A.G. campaign that followed it) was running.

1993 was when Sega's marketing got even more aggressive - the whole "Welcome to the Next Level" and "Blast Processing" campaigns were launched that year, IIRC. With those two campaigns, it's easy to see just how Sega rose to 55% that year.


Pretty much the only reason why I still have Altered Beast is because I'm into the Genesis and it's a big part of it's history. I can't play it for hours on end, I just can't.
I don't know if anyone can. When my brother and I got our Genesis in 1990, all we had was Altered Beast for about a week, and it got old real quick. For me, Altered Beast is only good for a quick playthrough once in a great while these days.


I'd like to point out that Melf's article basically said what I said earlier in this thread. Altered Beast showed off what the then new Genesis hardware could do, the gameplay wasn't that good. It was more like a tech demo.
And yet, it plays better than the arcade game. The controls aren't as responsive as the Genesis version. That says something about the arcade original, doesn't it?

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm following you until this part (well...or the HL being visually better than Q3...kind of a weird comparison, but I agree it still looks nice). I remember playing this with a group of friends when everyone was going ape shit over it. Everyone in the house seemed to "get it" except for me. Jaded from Doom and Quake maybe? I can only gather that it's popularity was from two things: 1) a lot of its audience just never played a multiplayer FPS until Goldeneye (which can be really exciting and memorable even if the game is a terd). 2) at the time it provided the cool social aspect of playing a FPS in the same room with the same people. All you had to do was have a copy of the game, one N64 and four controllers. Wasn't nearly as involved as lan'ing Quake or Doom II at the time.
Well, there's the problem - we're looking for different things out of each game. I played all those games extensively (minus DOOM II), but offline. (DOOM II's maps never gelled for me; they felt unfocused, rambling, and generally without atmosphere compared to DOOM's - they did have character, if tons and tons of barrels is "character.") Goldeneye's got a great single-player campaign and it's still the only FPS that not only gave me what I felt was a good incentive for playing faster (unlocking the cheats) but still the only one I've bothered to do this for (Perfect Dark, which I only picked up a couple years ago, has too many framerate issues for me to seriously try this with it; if that weren't the case I'd say the sim challenges alone put it beyond Goldeneye).

Goldeneye's multiplayer gets a bad rap because of Oddjob and Baron Samedi's hat, mine glitches and tricks (truth be told I love these though, and nothing's stopping a player from using remote mines in combat), and especially the circling battles where two players can't quite turn fast enough while running to catch another player. It's decent - not amazing, but I've always thought of it as just a nice extra over the regular game.

To explain the Half-Life vs. Quake III strangeness: Quake III fares worse when played at higher resolutions than it was originally designed to be than does Half-Life, I feel. The art direction is, in all honesty, pretty lousy (although that one early map vs. Ranger has some great elements, mainly the mouth the armor is in), although not as bad as DOOM III I suppose - and there's not a lot in a random collection of multiplayer maps and normal mapped walls to fight off the mighty Half-Life scripting engine. Today, Quake III is a ugly blurry mess with visual cliches that I find hard to appreciate.


Every few years I may try out Altered Beast again, and though for a few minutes it's ok just to play for a bit I still think it's a bad game overall. [...] I'm impressed with the Duke Nukem 3D port that came out on the Mega Drive, it shouldn't even be possible to be made for the system, yet it's real. Every so often I play it on an emulator, and though I'm impressed with it I still consider it a bad game. It's nowhere near as good as the original PC version and plays very poorly, yet I'm still impressed that it could come out for the Mega Drive.
Why do you torture yourself so with playing tech demo games you don't like? Drop Duke Nukem 3D and check out Zero Tolerance again (or Beyond Zero Tolerance, if you've tried that one). Forget Altered Beast and try...something else, I suppose. I have yet to play all the way through the three Shinobi games, actually. I got to the final boss of Shadow Dancer but didn't quite get the extra distance; for Shinobi III I'm not sure how far I got in normal play; I saw the whole thing on an emulator, years ago. Revenge of Shinobi got to me in that vertical section after the Tuhminator shows up.

[j_factor]

That's exactly what the article says, that Altered Beast always sucked. I agree with that, and I'm not sure how you missed it unless you didn't actually read the article.

I read the article. It's titled "Ten 'classic' games that did not age well", and then the writer tells me why it was never any good. So what's the subject of the article again? It makes no sense.

[Arkhan]

cmon, hindsight is 20-20

name a 1988 or 1989 two player beat em up on the NES

there isnt one

the sprites were large, the sound was loud and abrasive (in a good way) and altered beast was a great home port of a good arcade game

too many of these snot-nosed brats have zero perspective of history
:above me::above me::above me::above me::above me:


River City Ransom
Double Dragon
Target Renegade

The End!

[Icarus Moonsight]

Ransom and Renegade were both released in 1990 and Double Dragon NES beat 'em up gameplay was only 1p. You had to do the crappy vs thing if you wanted to play it 2 players. I know this because when a neighbor kid got Double Dragon for a birthday gift, I was asked to go grab my SMS so more than one person could play Double Dragon, the right way. LOL Some of the kids liked the 2 player NES thing... So it all worked out in the end.

In 1989, Altered Beast on the Genny was a pretty big deal. I really enjoy the Genesis and even I don't want to own the cart now. Back when I was a kid though, I really wanted a Genesis that came packaged with Altered Beast. Just had to wait a while. Back then, 190 was a bit steep.

[Breetai]

And on a personal note, while I do agree with the article's assessment of Fantasia, to say that Castle of Illusion didn't play very well is ludicrous. That's one of the smoothest platformers I've ever played, and still gets played regularly at my house today.I've got to 100% agree with you here.

I had an NES, but then one day I got to try out a Genesis. My friend had Altered Beast, Moonwalker, Golden Axe and Castle of Illusion. Castle of Illusion completely blew me away. It looked awesome, I liked the sound and it was FUN. I later bought a Genesis because I wanted Castle of Illusion all to myself (and Golden Axe, but that was more of an afterthought). Sonic coming out on it just made owning a Genesis all that much better (as did later games like Evander Holyfield's Boxing, NHL Hockey and eventually Road Rash). SNES didn't have those games! When they got the sequels, the Genesis versions still blew them out of the water. NHLPA '93 plays a heck of a lot better on Sega than on the big N'. I was happy to be a Genesis owner. All the cool kids had one!

[chrisbid]

:above me::above me::above me::above me::above me:


River City Ransom
Double Dragon
Target Renegade

The End!

wrong

renegade and double dragon did not have 2 player co-op,

river city ransom was released in 1990

[Urzu402]

So I just bought Gunstar Heroes, I'm waiting for it to be shipped and stuff, also when I do get it who is the best to play as?

[Dire 51]

So I just bought Gunstar Heroes, I'm waiting for it to be shipped and stuff, also when I do get it who is the best to play as?
Considering that there aren't multiple characters to choose from, I'd say the one you're given. You are given four weapons to choose from, though. That you'll just have to experiment with to find out which one you like best. You can also combine them with other weapons as you play through the game, so you have a lot of (really fun) experimenting ahead.

[Urzu402]

There isnt a choice between Free Shot and Fixed Shot?, because thats what I mean, I thought you could choose between Red and Blue one was Free and the other was Fixed.

[Dire 51]

You can choose between fixed and free, but Blue only comes into play when you're playing a two player game, and then only Player 2 plays him.

I prefer fixed shot. You can't move while shooting, but you do get to use the jump kick.

[Sosage]

I prefer fixed shot. You can't move while shooting, but you do get to use the jump kick.

No. Stop. Do not play this game for him.

He needs to turn off the Internet and stop looking up stuff about how to play the game. It's just going to spoil the fun and deflate the experience once he receives his copy.

[Dire 51]

No. Stop. Do not play this game for him.

He needs to turn off the Internet and stop looking up stuff about how to play the game. It's just going to spoil the fun and deflate the experience once he receives his copy.
This is a good point. Urzu, why don't you do exactly that? I mean, when the Genesis was new we didn't have the internet to go to every time we wanted to find something out about a game. We found this stuff out by playing the game in question. And frankly, it was more fun that way. Give it a try, you might enjoy it.

[Urzu402]

So now only Contra Hard Corps, is the last one on my list to get.
Also I can't play it yet I don't have it yet, and I'm not into emulation.

[Arkhan]

wrong

renegade and double dragon did not have 2 player co-op,

river city ransom was released in 1990

RCR was released in the 80s in Japan. :) close enough.

and woops, I guess since i dont like the NES double dragon, i forgot its not co-op, and the versus mode is stupid.


as far TARGET renegade, I don't even remember if that has 2player on the NES. It was a crappy game.

[vivaeljason]

And Castle of Illusion is pure platforming goodness. I doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Fantasia, unless you're talking about a great Mickey game looks compared to a pure garbage one.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...who's bashing Castle of Illusion?!? That and World of Illusion are two of my favorites on the Genesis! Fantasia is definitely a piece of crap, but man I love the Illusion games.

[Dire 51]

Also I can't play it yet I don't have it yet, and I'm not into emulation.
Play it when you get it, of course. Let the anticipation build and when it arrives play the hell out of it.


Whoa, whoa, whoa...who's bashing Castle of Illusion?!? That and World of Illusion are two of my favorites on the Genesis! Fantasia is definitely a piece of crap, but man I love the Illusion games.
We're all commenting on a snippet from Sam Pettus' Sega Base article on the Genesis - "Genesis: A New Beginning":


Even Sega's early dedicated Genesis efforts suffered from this affliction. Castle of Illusion and Fantasia, both Mickey Mouse games produced under license from Disney, set new standards for sprite animation in a video game yet played little better than their ported arcade predecessors. Sega's games may have looked better than Nintendo's, but they didn't seem to play any better.

[vivaeljason]

We're all commenting on a snippet from Sam Pettus' Sega Base article on the Genesis - "Genesis: A New Beginning":

I was aware that it was from the article. Let me re-phrase: what writer of an article about the Genesis dares bash Castle of Illusion and expects me to take them seriously? :)

[Urzu402]

I seem to be liking all of Konami's Genesis games, I seen Rocket Knight Adventures it doesnt look all too apealing to me because of the main character sprites, but I might be willing to give it a try. Are it and it's sequel any good?