Super Street Fighter IV

[ubersaurus]

Cammy is one of the few that can destroy people in this game with a little practice.

She have a Sagat Tiger Knee move (Cannon Spike from the air), we all know that the she have one of the most deadliest C's (moves) in the game.

He cannon drill does chip damage. The lk does one hit, but can be used in a block string.

Cannon Spike, DP version, takes priority over so many moves. Don't jump or feel the wrath of it.

The hooligan command throw is veracious. To many people jump in the air when they see somebody do the EX. The usual outcome is, Cammy doing

She really complete, the health is her only problem. If she had more health she would be a major threat.

CHIPS AHOY!

[Mayhem]

Quick question regarding Honda, as I'm seeing a few more online. Sumo Splash spammage... I've tried to punish on block, but am I timing it wrong or is it really that safe? It's like people are drawing over silly tactics from ST or something...

[DreamTR]

Mayhem: Honda has advantage if you don't "guess" right against it. He is vulnerable after the first bounce from his butt when he lands from it, but it's hard to punish that online and it's way easier to punish if you use an uppercut character.

Also, it's a mixup guess. If you try jumping away, Honda can EX buttsmash you, if you stand there, you might get stuck in blockstun for a second if Honda does another, unless you are down, then he can cross you up with one forcing you to block the other way, or you can stand there and just get Ochioed...safest thing is just to do crouch jabs into your own mixups but EX headbutt sometimes hits that if your timing is off.

I know it sounds like a lot to deal with it, but it's not. He can't do this against any uppercut characters (especially Cammy) and he can't do it against any 360 characters...

[G-Boobie]

Cammy is one of the few that can destroy people in this game with a little practice.

She have a Sagat Tiger Knee move (Cannon Spike from the air), we all know that the she have one of the most deadliest C's (moves) in the game.

He cannon drill does chip damage. The lk does one hit, but can be used in a block string.

Cannon Spike, DP version, takes priority over so many moves. Don't jump or feel the wrath of it.

The hooligan command throw is veracious. To many people jump in the air when they see somebody do the EX. The usual outcome is, Cammy doing

She really complete, the health is her only problem. If she had more health she would be a major threat.

Interrobang!

[Mayhem]

I know it sounds like a lot to deal with it, but it's not. He can't do this against any uppercut characters (especially Cammy) and he can't do it against any 360 characters...
Cheers for that... I'm playing Sagat normally and going for the tiger knee on block, but Honda is usually blocking those by the time it activates. Guess I'll be trying the tiger uppercut a little earlier into the move then... get that muscle memory operating...

[Nirvana]

Honestly, Cammy is not as bad against Honda as these tier lists claim....Viper definitely has more problems with Honda than Cammy does....

I'm not huge on tier lists, but there's only one tier list that people are really using, I don't know what other ones you've seen.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p_mijyntof4/S-1cpT1tmWI/AAAAAAAAEBI/sU-GcgxfNCY/s1600/tierlist-may2010.png

It has Cammy vs Honda listed at 6-4, so the tier list isn't exactly claiming that the matchup is awful. But to say Cammy vs Honda isn't in Honda's favor is foolish. I've had a much easier time dealing with Honda with Viper than Cammy because she has a lot more mixups and crossups than Cammy. Block strings into TK feint or overhead are all great ways to deal with Honda on the ground. Maybe it's just me, but playing the patient game with Viper is much easier than with Cammy against Honda.

Butt splash destroys divekick pressure from Cammy, as it beats it from an absurd amount of angles. Cammy has her new crossup LK to help out, but that's about all she has on him, aside from taking away his butt splash pressure with her cannon spike. But he doesn't really need that against her, as he can just sit there and wait for her to make a move. Honda has the advantage in damage output (as he does against the majority of the cast) and his normals snuff her out pretty well (standing roundhouse, neutral jump fierce to be exact). Honda can pretty much lame out any character with a fireball just by sitting there the entire game (with a few exceptions of course, Rufus comes to mind), but it truly is a challenge to get close to Honda and then even deal enough damage to finish him off.

And Chauncey Talon: I agree with most of what you said, as Cammy is definitely easy to use. But a few things

- Both LK and MK Cannon Drill do one hit, and ALL drills can be used in block strings.

- Hooligan throw is near useless to high level play. I mostly use it for positioning, if anything.

- Low level play, Cammy is the queen. But smart players who are used to teching throws definitely make Cammy players work for her wins.

[G-Boobie]

Cheers for that... I'm playing Sagat normally and going for the tiger knee on block, but Honda is usually blocking those by the time it activates. Guess I'll be trying the tiger uppercut a little earlier into the move then... get that muscle memory operating...

Try focusing on reaction to his take off, too: if you time it perfectly, you can focus the butt splash and crumple him for a free bonus combo of your choice (assuming of course he isn't crossing you up with it. In that case, dash cancel and reset the situation).

[Mayhem]

Yeah, I've been trying to focus react on it too, but it isn't easy to get those two fingers onto the middle buttons in a pinch :p

[DreamTR]

Nirvana: Sorry man, cross up RH dive kick and the fact she has so many options from jabs to dives to crouch short to combo make it risky for Honda to do much when she is in...you can't just butt slam all that, she baits it too easily and Hnda can't charge up fast enough on a lot of things to outpoke her.

Honda's Stand RK may be good, but Cammy's pokes are faster and better sans Maybe Honda's up close jab, but CS knockdown is silly...mixup games are sillier...

I don't go by any of these tier lists. The one I made up myself at the beginning ends up being close to the final one anyway....I can't believe people had Viper and Dudley so low in the last one...the reason I don't believe these things is because I use every single character in the game and know the matchups pretty well.

Since Honda is one of my best characters I can say without a doubt the "spazziness" of Cammy is a very big factor as opposed to the control of most of the other cast and because of her up close grab game alone with mixups Honda really has to guess correctly on a counter. He has a much bigger advantage over Viper because of the jump FP and the fact that most of Viper's jump ins whiff and are too slow on recovery against his power....

Unpredictable Cammy = harder for Honda than knowing how to block Viper's stuff. If you've played experienced Vipers, they are still controlled, Cammy is never controlled.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on it =P

[Nirvana]

Good points. An issue with my argument is that I don't face enough high level Hondas, or enough Hondas to begin with. I used to have a big problem with Balrog, but not so much anymore. As we both know, Honda isn't a very popular character, so the matchup can be confusing to those who are not used to it. citiofbrass's Honda gave me a rough time (although it was awhile since I've faced him) but usually every time I run into a Honda online that honestly doesn't seem that great I always close matches with them.

But enough about that. I'm having a lot of fun using Crimson Viper lately. It's unbelievable how many mixups she has and unpredictable she truly can be. I'm not sure whether I'll get to the point where my Viper will be tourny viable, although I do prefer to use her against certain characters rather than Cammy.

Edit: Damn. I'm watching Box Arena stream right now, and Steinmania, a great Cammy player from Cali, eliminated Alex Valle in losers...but got wrecked by Mike Ross's Honda o_O. Honestly, this is easy for me to say since I'm not there, but I would have been way more patient. He did some crazy random stuff that got punished hard by Honda. He didn't even try getting into a poking contest, and although I think its hard for Cammy in that matchup, standing jab definitely would have cut down some of the Honda pressure and at least kept him honest. He was just in his face.

[DreamTR]

Nirvana, you had the wrong tier list up.

Just like I said, they go from Viper being horrible to being top tier, LOL


http://iplaywinner.com/super-street-fighter-4-tiers/

[Nirvana]

Didn't even notice that o_O

[DreamTR]

Didn't even notice that o_O

That's why you can't believe everything you see, lol..the original tier list I had looked similar to that except I had Sagat at the top still and Dudley and Makoto much higher...

[Nirvana]

That's why you can't believe everything you see, lol..the original tier list I had looked similar to that except I had Sagat at the top still and Dudley and Makoto much higher...

The thing is, I didn't see it at all, and not to mention, I honestly don't pay attention to tier lists at all. I only found that one just to prove the point that the tier lists don't reference Cammy vs Honda as "awful a matchup the tier lists make it out to be," like you suggested. It's listed 6-4 just like Viper vs Honda is, but like I said, I don't pay much attention to the tier list.

I honestly don't take tier lists seriously because there are a lot of other factors to take in. One big thing is popularity of characters in areas, hence why they probably made those Battle Arcadia tier lists on eventhubs. I never even look at them; in fact, I just googled "SSFIV tier list" to find the one I found.

[DreamTR]

Nirvana, I never said the tier lists reference Cammy and Honda matchup as not being as awful. I am saying the tier list makes it OUT like Cammy vs Honda is awful which it clearly is not. There is a HUGE difference between Viper vs Honda and Cammy vs Honda and they have them exactly the same when it is obvious someone doing the tier lists doesn't know the matchups that well.

[G-Boobie]

Nirvana, I never said the tier lists reference Cammy and Honda matchup as not being as awful. I am saying the tier list makes it OUT like Cammy vs Honda is awful which it clearly is not. There is a HUGE difference between Viper vs Honda and Cammy vs Honda and they have them exactly the same when it is obvious someone doing the tier lists doesn't know the matchups that well.

The game is still pretty new yet, too. "Final" tier-lists are a long ways off for whatever that's worth.

How do you feel about the balance so far, DreamTR? You had some strong foreboding before the game came out.

[Famidrive-16]

anyone watching the evo stream?

this blanka player lost to Juicebox and threw his stick on the ground and yelled at him, lol

[DreamTR]

The game is still pretty new yet, too. "Final" tier-lists are a long ways off for whatever that's worth.

How do you feel about the balance so far, DreamTR? You had some strong foreboding before the game came out.

G-Boobie, it's definitely the most balanced and playable SF game to date...people playing today had no idea from the CVS2, and Alpha 2 and 3 days how horrendous some matchups are..

[Holger Czukay]

anyone watching the evo stream?

this blanka player lost to Juicebox and threw his stick on the ground and yelled at him, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsgRnBazeSY

EVO MOMENT #39

[G-Boobie]

G-Boobie, it's definitely the most balanced and playable SF game to date...people playing today had no idea from the CVS2, and Alpha 2 and 3 days how horrendous some matchups are..

I think you're probably right. Maybe we'll even have a competitive character list with TWO digits when everything is said and done.

Evo was fun this year, and SSFIV was great to watch, but my favorite was TvC. That game is ridiculously fun for spectators.

[ubersaurus]

TVC finals were awesome, but man, it's all about the HD Remix finals. Not even a few months ago, ST-heads were dismissing the game at Evo, saying that old school ST players and characters would continue to dominate the finals at the tournament, and who wins? An HDR player using Zangief, who was utter trash in ST. Simply awesome.

[G-Boobie]

TVC finals were awesome, but man, it's all about the HD Remix finals. Not even a few months ago, ST-heads were dismissing the game at Evo, saying that old school ST players and characters would continue to dominate the finals at the tournament, and who wins? An HDR player using Zangief, who was utter trash in ST. Simply awesome.
Yeah, snake eyes is no joke.

Watching Jason Cole play in top eight again was awesome too. Also, tokido getting ruined by Daigo.

Actually, the finals I enjoyed least were the ssf4 matches. Good evo this year!

[Famidrive-16]

The grand finals in Super were definitely not as good as the Semis or earlier matches. Seeing Justin get knocked out from Top 8 by two newer players and Mike Ross with his insanely improved Honda (see I told you guys U2 had it's uses) were intense.

TvC, HDR, and MvC2 had some amazing finals though.

[Nirvana]

Nirvana, I never said the tier lists reference Cammy and Honda matchup as not being as awful. I am saying the tier list makes it OUT like Cammy vs Honda is awful which it clearly is not. There is a HUGE difference between Viper vs Honda and Cammy vs Honda and they have them exactly the same when it is obvious someone doing the tier lists doesn't know the matchups that well.

6-4 isn't exactly "awful." I feel like we're going in circles, and nothing is really coming out of this.

Anyway, Evo was pretty cool. I was glad to see some diversity in character selection, although there were still a ton of Akumas, Rufuses, and Vipers. But what do you expect; those are all really solid characters. Adon in Top 8 was pretty cool too. I'm kinda upset Daigo and Wong didn't face each other in the tournament, just because it'd be great to see that matchup again.

[G-Boobie]

So let's talk Arcade Edition.

In December, the newest version of Street Fighter IV hits arcades, which is going to be weird for anyone (primarily in Japan) who hasn't played anything but the original vanilla iteration of the game. I'm sure there will be a console update at some point so that everyone is playing the same game, but it hasn't yet been confirmed.

Here's what we know through press releases and the location test last month:

1) Yun and Yang are confirmed as new playable characters, and appear to have their Third Strike shenanigans largely intact.

2) A huge number of balance changes have been applied to characters across the board, though whether these are going to be applied in their current state is debatable. A few of the most important changes are as follows:

A) Zangief EX glove no longer knocks down (!!!)
B) Blanka Ball recovery on block has been increased to the point where using it in anything other than a combo is pointless. Thanks, whining forum scrubs.
C) Honda's damage has been "significantly toned down".
D) Gen has a few of his target combos from Alpha series.
E) Juri's kick fireball now combos after the initial kick
F) Ryu and Akuma can no longer air tatsu out of the corner
G) Cammy no longer has her instant cannon strike.
H) Makoto's EX Hayate now breaks focus (!!!!!!!)

There are more, but you can check them out for yourselves on Event Hubs or SRK.

[Famidrive-16]

If anyone hasn't been watching EVO, I can sum it up so far:

http://i.imgur.com/FPVJx.gif
http://i.imgur.com/WpMSB.png

[G-Boobie]

GO WOLFKRONE!!! THAT'S MY BOYEEEE....

Note that there are more C. Viper players in top eight than there are Yun players in AE. And a Tokido, obviously.

[kedawa]

I just got done watching the after hours stream. There were some great matches, and poongko was just unstoppable. He makes Seth look like a top tier character.

[Nirvana]

I actually went to Evo, and man, it was an incredible experience. I seriously can't wait for next year...it's gonna be so huge with all the new fighting games coming out.

I went 2-2 at Evo. I lost to Latif and Kayane :( I did good against Latif the first round and actually made him look bad, but the other rounds were just...ugh. As for the match for Kayane...I'm disgusted that I lost. Don't get me wrong, she's a strong player. But I definitely lost to myself, because Cammy should never lose to Chun-Li. I know that matchup too well and it's definitely in my favor.

The results were pretty awesome, too. It was nice to see Daigo not make top 3, and more importantly, the top 3 players were definitely players that deserved it. I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea who Fuudo was. But if he's regarded as the best VF5 player in Japan, then he has to be good. That game is definitely one that takes a large amount of skill.

Other than that, I loved being there. I got some sweet shirts while I was there and I got to play the new KoF, UMvC3, and SFxT.

And let's discuss Arcade Edition, shall we? ^_^

I think it's funny that a ton of Cammy players dropped her in favor of one of the twins. She's still incredibly strong. They're upset that they got rid of instant Cannon Strike. Hey, I'll be the first to admit that it was pretty OP. Seriously, an instant cannon strike was like +8 frames on block. If you get caught in the tech trap, you eat a 300+ damage combo. I abused it in Super, and now that it's gone, we have a more reasonable Cammy. Besides, she can still do it, but it costs a meter.

As far as her buffs, I absolutely love her new combos. Unfortunately, a lot of good ones are 1 frame links, so my execution has to be on point if I want to win.