The "Quit Derailing the RPG Threads" Thread

[Arkhan]

Sugiyama belongs to a group of educators, entertainers, politicians, and other public figures which actively encourages the youth of Japan to deny the nation's responsibility for the Nanking Massacre and other war crimes. However minor, his views are most certainly contributing to Japan's stance on this issue.

This is not your grandpa referring to the black kid next door as a "moon cricket." This is your grandpa telling you that the Holocaust never happened.

its a lost cause dude, Aussie2B will apparently defend the untouchable Sugiyama to the death. He can do no wrong, and cannot be outdone!
:whip:

oh, and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvoi7CatYMk

Now tell me Uematsu isn't a very technically accomplished composer.

EDIT: Oh, and mr. Aussie2B, why did you ignore the entire latter portion of my post? :) It addresses your claims. Did you ignore it because it doesn't suit your opinion?

I seem to recall a similar statement from you at one point, but I may be mistaking you with someone else.

[Aussie2B]

The irony is that I'm not even a big fan of Sugiyama. I have over 100 soundtracks in my collection (and that's not even including promo stuff), and I don't believe a single one is Sugiyama. On the flip side, I do have at least a couple Uematsu albums. But both of them rank relatively low on my list of favorite game composers. So I've been saying what I believe to be objectively true, not anything out of some obsession. I even said that nothing I said was meant to be any kind of an insult, and, in fact, I never said anything about Uematsu that he himself hasn't basically said about himself. So I guess you're the lost cause, Arkhan, because you can't possibly accept the idea that Uematsu isn't some god among composers that knows everything possible about music. Keep in mind I never said Uematsu lacks the ability to learn the advanced technical aspects that other composers know, just that he simply doesn't know that stuff for the time being. He enjoys writing simple, catchy music, and the fans enjoy listening to it. Why is that something negative? I mean, that's what The Beatles did. Or are you going to try to argue that their music is as technical and complex as, say, Dream Theater?

And I see you're once again trying to do whatever you can to invalidate in your mind whatever opinions or facts you don't like hearing. When all else fails, claim the person isn't credible because they lack the background to talk about it, right? But of course the same rules don't apply to yourself. Fine, I'll humor you once again. My fiance does professional audio work, both composition and production; he and I both know many other music professionals including those working in the game industry; and I'm also a big fan of game music with extensive knowledge on the subject. So, yeah, I think I know a thing or two about music, even if I don't make it myself.

[Arkhan]

Firstly, im not obsessing over Uematsu, and barely listen to his stuff anymore. I am basically just reacting to a statement that I see as ......nonsense?

I'm not trying to "invalidate" your comment. Do you always say that in response to people who debate with you? I just don't agree with you and I am trying to explain why what you said is nonsense. My point is you are talking like you KNOW these composers. You don't. How do YOU know what they do or don't know? Are you their professor? Did you critique their work and give them pop quizzes and exams? :bigmac:

The work speaks for itself, and is the only way you or any of us who don't chill with them in their house can make claims about either composer. To listen to Uematsu and say "he doesnt have the technical skills that Sugiyama has" is just wrong. You can hear classical influence in his work left and right.

Listen! LISTEN. Thats all you have to do to hear and realize that despite being "self taught", he has plenty of technical knowledge that could also be learned at a university. The fact that Uematsu has said some things about his lack of knowledge is nearly pointless. Its called being humble. Tons of composers act like they're not good enough and don't know as much as their peers. -_-.

Another case in point, Mark Mothersbaugh of DEVO. He never went to school for music. Now he composes for stuff like The Royal Tanenbaums, Life Aquatic, and Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. Ever hear that stuff?

No classical training, plenty of prowess. Unless you'd like to say he too doesn't have the technical abilities of a "classically trained" composer.

Which again, would be a load of shit.

as for credibility, yeah, you're big on game music and you're around composers. but... if YOU aren't "classically trained", face it, you really don't have the credibility to remark on it and compare a "classically trained" composer and a "not classically trained" one.. Thats common sense. I mean, unless you KNOW what classically trained means, have been experienced with it, and can explain it.

mostly because like I said, the stuff you get trained on "classically", is picked up on through experience.

[tom]

War crimes hey, I believe since Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq USA has no leg to stand on criticizing other countries war crimes.

[Richter Belmount]

Sugiyama belongs to a group of educators, entertainers, politicians, and other public figures which actively encourages the youth of Japan to deny the nation's responsibility for the Nanking Massacre and other war crimes. However minor, his views are most certainly contributing to Japan's stance on this issue.



This is not your grandpa referring to the black kid next door as a "moon cricket." This is your grandpa telling you that the Holocaust never happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z45xkDJ2SY

[kupomogli]

deciding if you like someones left or right tit more. Either way you want to roll around in the middle of them.

I would do this. I like boobs.

[Aussie2B]

Firstly, im not obsessing over Uematsu, and barely listen to his stuff anymore. I am basically just reacting to a statement that I see as ......nonsense?

I'm not trying to "invalidate" your comment. Do you always say that in response to people who debate with you? I just don't agree with you and I am trying to explain why what you said is nonsense. My point is you are talking like you KNOW these composers. You don't. How do YOU know what they do or don't know? Are you their professor? Did you critique their work and give them pop quizzes and exams? :bigmac:

The work speaks for itself, and is the only way you or any of us who don't chill with them in their house can make claims about either composer. To listen to Uematsu and say "he doesnt have the technical skills that Sugiyama has" is just wrong. You can hear classical influence in his work left and right.

Listen! LISTEN. Thats all you have to do to hear and realize that despite being "self taught", he has plenty of technical knowledge that could also be learned at a university. The fact that Uematsu has said some things about his lack of knowledge is nearly pointless. Its called being humble. Tons of composers act like they're not good enough and don't know as much as their peers. -_-.

Another case in point, Mark Mothersbaugh of DEVO. He never went to school for music. Now he composes for stuff like The Royal Tanenbaums, Life Aquatic, and Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. Ever hear that stuff?

No classical training, plenty of prowess. Unless you'd like to say he too doesn't have the technical abilities of a "classically trained" composer.

Which again, would be a load of shit.

as for credibility, yeah, you're big on game music and you're around composers. but... if YOU aren't "classically trained", face it, you really don't have the credibility to remark on it and compare a "classically trained" composer and a "not classically trained" one.. Thats common sense. I mean, unless you KNOW what classically trained means, have been experienced with it, and can explain it.

mostly because like I said, the stuff you get trained on "classically", is picked up on through experience.

You're on, what, Plan C now? The background test didn't work so time to selectively ignore.

I love how you say you're not trying to invalidate, and then your argument breaks down to "You're just saying nonsense". Even though, as I already said, everything I'm saying is based on outside information rather than opinion, and I'm presenting in a completely logical way. Not to mention you once again pull out the credibility card at the end, when I'm guessing you'd fail your own test even worse than you think I do. Oh, and I also love how you come to conclusions about interviews you've never even read/heard, haha. Mitsuda is about the most humble, shy composer in the industry, yet he has never made it seem as if he knows less than he does. So what excuse can you concoct for that?

[TonyTheTiger]

I think Jack Wall is one of the best composers in RPG-land these days.

Just sayin'.

[Arkhan]

First off, what I find funniest is that this entire argument is based off the fact that you misinterpreted what I said and pulled your self proclaimed expert bit. You seem to always be looking for an argument, and always looking to assert your intranets intelligence expertise. Gimme a break. :) This is a game forum, not Jeopardy.

Do remember, alllllllllllll I was referring to is that FF's instrumentation is better than DQs. Anyone who says otherwise needs an ear exam. DQ is a bunch of simple square beeps more or less. Again, refer to the Vivaldi on 2600 statement I made. ... If you aren't too busy skipping over the parts that would reduce this argument to an "oops, my bad, this was all not unnecessary".


You're on, what, Plan C now? The background test didn't work so time to selectively ignore.

Im on plan HIJKLMNOP. Hell, maybe even plan whiskey tango delta. I don't know. I don't plan anything.

Quite frankly, your background defense blows anyways. Not just because its yours and I want to argue, but because it doesn't make sense if anyone does it.

Why: Being around composers/musicians doesn't make you any more informed on the subject. :) I could hang out with surgeons all day, it doesn't mean I know the first thing about slicing someone open even if they tell me all about all the procedures.. You aren't really truly informed about something until you're doing it yourself. Thats just fact.

In this situation, its best to just LISTEN to the two games music and realize which one SOUNDS better. (Again: Vivaldi on the 2600. Not gonna sound great). Christ, I made a video even.



I love how you say you're not trying to invalidate, and then your argument breaks down to "You're just saying nonsense". Even though, as I already said, everything I'm saying is based on outside information rather than opinion, and I'm presenting in a completely logical way.

Your opinion is perfectly valid. No arguments there. Though, You did not say EVERYTHING is based off outside information. Originally you were just flailing around dropping names and facts and acting like you have a degree in video game composers. Rather than go HERPHERP I KNOW ALL THIS STUFF, IM AROUND ALL THESE COMPOSERS AND STUFF. I AM SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT, you could just LISTEN to the two soundtracks and go "oh, hey, yeah, DQ is older and thus has simpler instruments. Unfortunate as that may be".

The SAME exact title song from the NES one, once fully orchestrated, kicks the piss out of the fully orchestrated Final Fantasy theme. But we werent talking about that. We (well at least I) were talking about the NES/MSX games. Nothing more, nothing less. Simple bleep bloops vs. better beepbloops. Thats all. Don't know what you were thinking.



Not to mention you once again pull out the credibility card at the end, when I'm guessing you'd fail your own test even worse than you think I do. Oh, and

What credibility card? I never said anything about my credibility. If you thought I did, man I sure wasn't. The way I am approaching this comparison is how anyone on earth should approach it. By simply listening to the two instead of starting the battle of the brains..

If you really are curious though, I have years of self taught musical experience, and 2 years of formal, "classical" training. To be quite honest, the classical training for the most part, was a buncha crap I had already picked up on, read about, accidentally stumbled upon, etc. There is no big book that fell out of the sky labeled CLASSICAL TRAINING. All of it is through years of dudes and dudettes wingin' it and seeing what worked out the best, and leaving it for future people to learn from.




I also love how you come to conclusions about interviews you've never even read/heard, haha. Mitsuda is about the most humble, shy composer in the industry, yet he has never made it seem as if he knows less than he does. So what excuse can you concoct for that?

Whoa now, interviews ive never seen or heard? Are you spying on me? Is this like the truman show? You see what I do 24/7?

oh, no, its not. Other people are allowed to see interviews and such too you know. You're not in some VIP club where the stuff is only shown to you and then burned.

Excuse I can concoct: Not every composer has the same mannerisms? Some are humble while others are confident? Duh?

Shit that excuse applies to pretty much ANY field possible.

You've got humble cops, and then you've got steven seagal.

[Kid Fenris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z45xkDJ2SY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2h5ym6ZlVY

[j_factor]

Quit derailing the "Quit Derailing the RPG Threads" thread.

[kupomogli]

The Sugiyama vs Uematsu thread. Or maybe someone could split the thread to that? Honestly it'd be a waste, so nevermind.

[Aussie2B]

Your opinion is perfectly valid. No arguments there. Though, You did not say EVERYTHING is based off outside information. Originally you were just flailing around dropping names and facts and acting like you have a degree in video game composers. Rather than go HERPHERP I KNOW ALL THIS STUFF, IM AROUND ALL THESE COMPOSERS AND STUFF. I AM SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT, you could just LISTEN to the two soundtracks and go "oh, hey, yeah, DQ is older and thus has simpler instruments. Unfortunate as that may be".

The SAME exact title song from the NES one, once fully orchestrated, kicks the piss out of the fully orchestrated Final Fantasy theme. But we werent talking about that. We (well at least I) were talking about the NES/MSX games. Nothing more, nothing less. Simple bleep bloops vs. better beepbloops. Thats all. Don't know what you were thinking.

I like how you think I'm "name-dropping" and trying to sound smart when I go to many game music forums where knowing about all of those people is the norm. Maybe in a general gaming crowd, most people only know Uemastsu and Kondo at the most, but knowing about all those other guys is no more remarkable to me than knowing about Super Mario Bros.

Your instrument argument never worked in the first place because it's not like we're talking MIDI here where music will sound different based on what samples it's using. NES music is hardware-generated, so both games have the same "instruments". If we were talking, say, the Famicom version of Castlevania 3, then there's more channels so an argument could be made, but not between Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy.

[Arkhan]

Instrumentation argument doesnt work.... hmm...... you must not know too much about sound hardware and how/what you can do with it then! Not that it's really a bad thing.

Does Contra sound like Dragon Quest? Hell no :). For better understanding, theres a VST of the NES sound hardware that has like 50 presets from various games. All sounding different. see how that works? Its a PROGRAMMABLE sound generator. You , with experience, can get more out of the thing than if youre powder fresh.

besides, it works out even better if you watch that MSX comparison video. :D FM ftw.

[Snapple]

This topic became too much for me in a hurry.

[TonyTheTiger]

So...how many people here love this little exchange?

NPC: "Hello. To continue on your quest you must go..."
Me: "Shit! I hit the A button too fast."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
Me: "#%#$! %#@! &*%$!"

[j_factor]

So...how many people here love this little exchange?

NPC: "Hello. To continue on your quest you must go..."
Me: "Shit! I hit the A button too fast."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
Me: "#%#$! %#@! &*%$!"

I liked how Phantasy Star IV had a "talk" menu option, which would have the members of your party talk about the next thing that you're supposed to do. More J-RPGs should have that.

[Aussie2B]

I generally don't skip past important bits of info, but that does remind me that when I can tell that I've already read what a NPC has to say I often mash the button to get out of the dialogue as quickly as possible, only to trigger the dialogue a second time. Sometimes it's even gone to a third or a fourth, where it really gets annoying.

[Arkhan]

So...how many people here love this little exchange?

NPC: "Hello. To continue on your quest you must go..."
Me: "Shit! I hit the A button too fast."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
NPC: "Good luck."
Me: "#%#$! %#@! &*%$!"

Yeah, i like when newer RPGs started including a like "journal" or "conversation" option in the menu so you could get a recap of wtf you were doing.

also comes in handy for when you stop playing a game for 8 months and plain forget.

[pseudonym]

Journals are nice. With games like Morrowind and Oblivion, where I tend to have a whole bunch of unfinished quests, and I can read up on what I was doing before I got side-tracked.

[Rickstilwell1]

One of my old friends kept a written journal in her notebook of what she was doing before she quit each game. She could have made her own walkthroughs at that rate.

[j_factor]

Hey guys maybe that's what the "Notes" section of a manual is for

[Arkhan]

Hey guys maybe that's what the "Notes" section of a manual is for

BUT I DIDNT HAVE THE MANUAL I RENTED THE GAME AND IT DIDNT COME WITH IT WHEN I GOT IT AT THE STORE

i dont write in the manuals.

And, the NOTES section of the journal doesnt help if you accidentally clicked past text. That journal isn't self updating and requires you to have read the text :D.

[kupomogli]

Yakuza 3 is awesome. EXP also doesn't make a game an RPG btw.