RetroN5: Hands on first look

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I've also noticed problems with The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons and Ages on the Retron5. I cannot dump the cartridge saves to the Retron5.

Oracle of Seasons fails to dump the save about a quarter way through the process. I put the game into a real GBC and the saves work just fine.
Oracle of Ages says it successfully imported the save, but in actually it didn't do anything and the saves are not there.

I'd like to confirm that I'm not the only one with this problem. GBC batteries are getting on in years so I'm not sure if perhaps its a faulty battery issue. But then again, my Shantae cart dumped the battery saves just fine to the Retron5 so I think it's gotta be something specific to the two Capcom Zelda games.

[Az]

One issue I have found is that cheats for Genesis games decided to not work.

I get an infinite loop where if you start the game with cheats it boots back to the menu and redumps the cart. The only way I've managed to get them to work is after going through this loop a couple times, turn them all off, then turn them on mid-game after it's already started.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Hmm I haven't tried that yet.

How do the cheats even work on the Retron5? I would guess they just GameGenie codes with headers in .txt files renamed to some other file extension. If so, then that means they're editable. I notice that currently a lot of games have misleading cheats, duplicate cheats, cheats that don't work, or in the case of a lot of the more unusual games, no cheats at all.

Is there a community already set up about Retron5 cheats? I want to fix some of the existing problems.

[Tanooki]

I think they're something like that. I remember being mentioned they were from a mix of sources but a great many word for word letter for letter were dumped off some huge master site. The file you upload to the system has them all logged and whatever so they pop up in a huge list per game on that cheat screen and you just click them on/off as needed. You can pull the cheat list right off their website and download the zip if you want your answers on how editable they are.

[nusilver]

I've also noticed problems with The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons and Ages on the Retron5. I cannot dump the cartridge saves to the Retron5.

Oracle of Seasons fails to dump the save about a quarter way through the process. I put the game into a real GBC and the saves work just fine.
Oracle of Ages says it successfully imported the save, but in actually it didn't do anything and the saves are not there.

I'd like to confirm that I'm not the only one with this problem. GBC batteries are getting on in years so I'm not sure if perhaps its a faulty battery issue. But then again, my Shantae cart dumped the battery saves just fine to the Retron5 so I think it's gotta be something specific to the two Capcom Zelda games.

Confirmed that Seasons fails to dump the save at about 20%.

I'd also just like to say, in response to all the arguing that had happened over the past few pages, I, too, don't give a shit. Not only have I actually started finishing games in my collection I've never been able to get through before, like Gimmick!, but I'm now able to get 100% enjoyment out of the actual CARTS I've purchased that I could never understand before because of IPS/UPS patching. I'm also actively expanding my collecting into Japanese RPGs now BECAUSE I can IPS patch real carts, which is WAY more satisfying than patching ROMs.

The Retron 5 did not ship in great condition, but it has gotten better and better every time I read this forum. It's incredible, and I can't wait for it to continue getting better, particularly with the timing on Mother 3 and others.

Think I'll buy Bahamut Lagoon next. I used to have it about 15 years ago, but the language barrier was a blocker. No more!

[Az]

I think they're something like that. I remember being mentioned they were from a mix of sources but a great many word for word letter for letter were dumped off some huge master site.

Probably Gamehacking if I'm not mistaken, which is why a lot of codes for the same thing are listed multiple times. The site has the built in ability to convert saves between formats and download them as a list.

A lot of them are RAM codes that cannot be converted to ROM codes, and AFAIK the console doesn't support RAM codes. You'll also see a lot of codes where you change digits to a certain variable (play as character X, start on level X) and those codes are useless where you can't edit them on the fly.

[Tanooki]

nusilver: Amen and correct. Like I found out, they didn't qc the earlier stuff properly which gave us the pin issues, non-working or random fail on some games (mine.) The parts are the same but better quality and they're being very much better checked before going out the door. Couple that with the massive upgrades in the system firmware .20 to .22+ quick boot, and the game firmware 1.0->2.0b6 and it's night and day. I wouldn't even call what that was as arguing, more like one side yelling hard and my side just not caring and being dismissive which pissed him off further. :) I still stand by any of those posts, it just is what it is. I'm old enough and beyond enough of the bullshit in old gaming at this rate anymore I don't give a damn, and emulators I've meddled with nearly 20 years and have seen all the abuses, backbiting, info stealing, sniping of NIntendo's private data to develop them in part...no one is innocent so I just don't care. The R5 has with my 2 almost 3 year old made it possible for me to enjoy old games again because now i can pick up and play them like a modern tablet/handheld where I can just click off, resume later and be fine. No more begging for time and doing a rerun.

AZ: Yeah that sounds about right I'm pretty sure it was that site. They caught flack for it online, and then it blew over once the database was tweaked and reorganized not to be a 1:1 quality ripoff dump of that page. I think the RAM codes probably fail the same reason why a pirate flash cart would, stuff gets dumped into memory and a system limit probably prevents it on the ram based tweaks too.

[Gatucaman]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/hyperkins_retron_5_console_allegedly_infringes_on_ the_rights_of_multiple_emulator_authors

Oh boy.

[Tanooki]

Scroll back a few pages, fairly certain that was libretro(retroarch) under that assumed name having a shit fit over this. It'll get resolved probably during the week here, can't say much was asked nicely not to. :P

[Satoshi_Matrix]

In addition to what what I said previously about overclock settings and such needed to be added, Hyperkin also needs to work on stability of the menu when returning from playing Super GameBoy and GameBoy Color games.

Also, Yoshi's Island remands virtually unplayable even on 2.0 B6. The game keeps randomly pausing for a good 2 seconds which ruins gameplay.

I got a message on my channel of someone saying that GBC Zelda Oracle of Seasons isn't playable on his Retron5 even with 2.0 Beta 6, yet it works on mine...just can't import the save and the GBA enhancements aren't available.

[Cryog]

RetroN Labo ... the japanese guy who hacked the RetroN 5 !!!

RetroN5 Hack Custom HomeApp Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sCejfVUu9k


RetroN5 Hack Language Select

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r84e06y0tUs

RetroN5 Hack launch RetroArch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXx6VRBBl8Y

[Cryog]

For use roms in the RetroN5. Thanks to the user 57Lions from The ASSEMbler Forum .

He wrote: "Here is how I've been able to play ROMs directly off the SD card. It's something along the lines of what was mentioned previously, but this should give an easy step-by-step.

1. Find an IPS ROM-patching program that can create patches. I used SamIPS2. Mac users can run this in Wine.
2. Click "Make IPS" tab
3. For current file, find the game ROM you would like to play on your Retron, like Sonic and Knuckles + Sonic 3.
4. For original file, put the ROM of a game you own. So basically, find the title of a game you have lying around, like Shaq-Fu. Find a ROM that matches that title, put it here.
5. Under "IPS file," you can name something whatever you want here, just use the .ips extension. For instance, Sonic-Knuckles-Sonic-3.ips.
6. Click "Create Patch."
7. You now have an IPS patch file. Load it onto your SD card, place the aforementioned game you had lying around into your cartridge slot and select that patch from your SD card.
8. Start the game. You'll be playing Sonic and Knuckles + Sonic 3, but Shaq-Fu will be in your cart slot. Not too shabby.


Note: You need "Patch expects header" selected for SNES;
Sega, GBA, GB, GBC have all been tested and don't need Patch expects header selected. Downloading some NES ROMs now to check that part out, but I'm assuming NES/Fami/SMS will work the same as the other systems."

[Kiddo]

Taking code someone else wrote and packaging it as a product for profit? Yeah that says many hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of paying a programmer to work for you. The Retron5 is a joke of a product any anyone saying "who cares" is a dumbfuck. You wouldn't like it if it was your work being ripped off.

I think the thing that bugs me the most about this (admitably in a very weird way) was how the Hyperkin guys basically went on a legal pedestal on their position to not allow you to load your dumped ROMs without the cart plugged in or for using the device as a ROM dumping device. Knowing that these guys infringed on other people's code makes that position reek of hypocracy. I feel as though it would've been better off if these guys were simply as shameless as Chinese Famicom pirates.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

That hacked Retron5 stuff is cool, but its way too clunky. As a proof of concept its fun, but I still beleive that the Retron5 running roms directly off an SD card defeats the whole purpose of the Retron5 being a cartridge based console. RetroArch is a mess on its own. it running on the Retron5 through exploits or whatever is enough to give me a headache.

For the time being I simply want Hyperkin to fix the existing issues and add more options like overclocking. PC Engine and PS1 support through rom emulation do not interest me on the Retron5 and don't belong on it. Proof of concept, but if you are serious about that stuff, buy an Ouya. The ouya does it without you needing to run a complex web of exploits.

[Tanooki]

I've got to agree this time with Satoshi, all those steps are a pain in the ass just to run warez on the R5, it's just not worth it. It's kind of sad no one has yet figured out with some common sense how to really do it without the hoops as the system has no security measures on it.

Kiddo blame management, not the tech. :P


I'm fasincated to see how they got FF7 working on the system, it is interesting to say the least and it's smooth, yet the DS runs terribly slow. Perhaps with a proper go of it and optimization more could be done on the speed with some of those games in that last video.

Oh and Satoshi Yoshi doesn't do the 2sec pause for me, at least on the system I swapped out for replacement but the one that'll arrive today I have no idea.

[Tanooki]

I got this sent to me moments ago by the Retron Tech -->

Here's the prelim v2.0 public stable release. I'd like to have a few people test it before it goes live, but basically its v2.0 BETA 6 with the fast loading disabled, due to stability issues with that feature. (This is the Sega Genesis cheat file thing failing causing fast load to be disabled.)

http://retron5.in/?src=f7177163c833dff4b38fc8d2872f1ec6


Changes since v1.6 include:
IPS/UPS patch support added (allows application of translation patches, graphic/level hacks etc)
Added ability to assign "turbo" button mappings
"Game specific settings" added, allowing certain settings to be configured on a per-game basis
Support for SGB borders added
Color scheme selection for GB games added. In addition, the correct CGB colors will be automatically selected for certain games
"Disable FM sound" option for SMS games added
SGB multi-player mode working (and Gameboy player/button mapping has been split from GBA in Settings)
Fixed screen shaking in some GBA games
Added support for SNES SPC7110 cartridges
File manager is now able to operate on folders (select with long button press) and copy/remove folders recursively
Screenshots may now be saved as either PNG or JPEG, with PNG made as the new default
Revamped in-game hotkey configuration
Improvements to rendering synchronization
Misc game compatibility fixes (King of Monsters, Fantasy Zone, Sky Kid, Youkai Club)

[Cryog]

Pier Solar rom working on the RetroN5 !!! The original cartridge don't work.

7643

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Tanooki, is it possible to downgrade the Retron5 firmware?

I'll agree to be a 2.0 tester before it goes live for you, but I want to be able to return to beta 6 afterwords.

[R9delta]

It's possible to downgrade. There's not really any hoops that have to be jumped through to do so either. Downgrading is done exactly the same way as upgrading. The file manager had gotten broken in one of the 2.0 Betas (which is now fixed) so I downgraded to 1.6 when it was working and then upgraded to a new beta that it was fixed again in.

[Leo_A]

After having tried this controller out just recently at long last, one thing I'd like to see is generic BlueTooth controller support. I would love to be able to sync my Six Axis PS3 gamepad to this, for instance, and have a truly comfortable wireless experience to complement the beautiful HD output from the Retron 5's HDMI port.

Original controllers have their place, but I'm not a fan of the included wireless controller. And always being constrained by wires while the Retron 5 sits aside consoles like my Xbox 360, hooked up to the same HDTV, isn't ideal.

I'll solve it with extension cables, but the option would be a welcome one.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I know I keep promoting it in the Retron5 thread, but man, just buy an Ouya. The Ouya does what you're looking for and does it without hoops. The Ouya is an open platform. The Retron5 is closed. And as far as I can tell, the Ouya is more powerful than the Retron5 too. The main reason to own a Retron5 is to stay connected to physical media and to use classic wired controllers. If you wanna venture outside of that, the Ouya is the best way to go. DualShock 3 NES SMS GB etc in 1080p to the Retron5's 720p.

[Tanooki]

Satoshi yes. When my other system was dying, I tried to revert the firmware to see on a longshot if it was software. It's fine. You could throw 1.0 on there if you really wanted to suffer. The 2.0 final test there short of any last minute thing will be official anytime so it's really a soft beta really a covert final thing.

Believe it or not, (probably do all things considered) they sent me a refurb replacement that was dead on arrival hardware is broken inside with a fatal error 0xf0001 code on it, and the black bezel is scuffed up pretty nicely too. They were shocked, going to pay to have this one shipped back and send one as soon as UPS shows it in the mail to them. Grr and all that.

Leo, wait until someone gets a bit less lazy and properly does things right with the system, then PS3 will work or more. They will never support it, I asked about other controllers. It can though, you just need to write a file or something to do so and since the system has zero security on it, it's just a matter of someone doing it. As it is now people are being foolish and going through hoops and lame steps with the SD card and writing fake IPS patches to run games.

[Leo_A]

Ouya is a great option as well, but there's also something to be said about native support for original controllers, cartridge support, and something that's plug and play.

That's why I've been advocating blurring the lines between the two all along and been resisting these notions that there's a limited purpose to this device. Ultimately it's about providing hardware to enjoy classic games on. Using a modern wireless controller tied to the system in place of an original wired controller doesn't defeat its purpose, it complements it.

This thing ultimately is all about providing what the original systems don't while entertaining us. If there's any sort of demand for this feature, they'd be wise to at least not dismiss it.

[Az]

After having tried this controller out just recently at long last, one thing I'd like to see is generic BlueTooth controller support.

Conversely, is it possible to use their included controller on any old regular BT device, or is it somehow limited only to only this console?


I know I keep promoting it in the Retron5 thread, but man, just buy an Ouya.

It's been repeated a lot but this point really can't be stressed enough if a person has no want for original carts and is dead set on playing ROMs.

The Ouya is much cheaper (even if you purchased the USB adapters for original controllers), more readily available, requires no such extra steps or headaches, and is open to do a lot more. I can understand the interest in it as something to use once in a while or as a tech-tinkerer just to see if it can be done, but if that's the main purpose of purchasing the console the Ouya alternative is much more viable in every aspect.

[Tanooki]

Oh hey the GPL trolls going after Hyperkin will be relieved to know the put the GPL notice up on their update page with a direct link to the notes and a zipped up file with all the sources in it for them to use/change to their liking. Not sure what the plan is with snes9x/genesis plus since supposedly they can't be used at all.

I just see it dusting over anyway, it's not like a lawyer would likely take up the cause of people promoting piracy on multiple formats through emulators.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Tanooki, can you send me the pre-release 2.0 final? email me please. satoshimatrix hotmail yadda yadda yadda.

[JSoup]

The patch loading thing seems pretty twitchy, from what I'm seeing. Watching a guy try to get translation patches work with his Japanese SNES games. All of them load and then do nothing, aside from maybe crash the system.

[Tanooki]

I've never heard of it being really twitchy, a bit picky yes, the patch has to match the internal name of the game in the slot to the letter and spacing exactly or it won't behave, crap out or ignore it.

Satoshi -- it's public, no need for email: http://retron5.in/?src=17e62166fc8586dfa4d1bc0e1742c08b

I found the link a couple pages back in this thread and bookmarked it for when I have a system again if they don't re-enable it by that time. I don't use the cheats so to have all the Nintendo systems fast load wrecked by the loner sega slot sucks.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

The first part of my retron5 coverage is now up, with a look at the controller as part of The Controller Chronicles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEAmz9i61UA

I'd be interested to hear feedback from other Retron5 owners.

[Tanooki]

The controller is bluetooth, and it is the reason why it's not out in the PAL regions because the CE board doesn't have the schematics to it to clear the device because hyperkin's supplier is being jerky about it. The +/- buttons, I guess it's taste, doesn't bother me and I hadn't even thought of it. L/R are a bit stiff but if you're used to a NES pad it's not terrible and not as bad as a lot of cheapo pads. I do agree the back design is screwy with that old mold not cut out. To me you're spot on with the rest. The click stick is great, but you really do have to get used to it in some styles of game in case your character wanders off or whatever, but anything really meant for a joystick it shines. I think the battery lasts longer than 6hrs, I don't recall ever charging it all that much before I mostly went to using an ascii pad snes controller I found locally.

[RoryDropkick]

Oh hey the GPL trolls going after Hyperkin will be relieved to know the put the GPL notice up on their update page with a direct link to the notes and a zipped up file with all the sources in it for them to use/change to their liking. Not sure what the plan is with snes9x/genesis plus since supposedly they can't be used at all.

I just see it dusting over anyway, it's not like a lawyer would likely take up the cause of people promoting piracy on multiple formats through emulators.


All's well that ends well I say. Now people can stop getting so huffy :)

[R9delta]

The patch loading thing seems pretty twitchy, from what I'm seeing. Watching a guy try to get translation patches work with his Japanese SNES games. All of them load and then do nothing, aside from maybe crash the system.

Have him try these:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b5kjabm681te5/Patches_for_Retron_5

They're patches i've fixed (or created on a select few) myself for the Retron 5 specifically. Make sure bare minimum he's on 2.0 Beta 3 or higher. Also no, the file names of the patches do not need to match with the cartridge name at all, you could call them whatever you want and i've fixed, created, or applied many patches that have proven that. Also just have him keep the header option off on Super Famicom/SNES games when using those patches, I strip the header of the match SNES rom before I make any patch to keep it simple. Headers are an old fossil left over from the earlier days of cartridge dumping and really not necessary anymore and all games are dumped onto the Retron 5 without the header anyway.

[Cryog]

Hyperkin admitted that the code used for the RetroN5 emulators are from RetroArch !!!

http://retron5.in/node/9

RetroN 5 Software Licensing
RetroN 5 uses source code from the following open source projects:
VBA-M (both primary SVN and VBA-Next fork)
Genesis Plus GX
FCEU (FCEU-Next fork)
SNES9x (SNES9x-Next fork)
The following archive contains the source code tree for each of the aforementioned projects, verbatim as is used by RetroN5.


The source code for each of these projects is copyright the respective authors, who are identified in the corresponding source files. We endeavour to abide by the terms and conditions of each of the corresponding open source licenses. Should you be one of the developers or a direct legal representative of one of the copyright holders of any of the aforementioned projects and feel that the software is being used in violation of its license then please get in touch with us via email to discuss the matter further.

[Kiddo]

I just see it dusting over anyway, it's not like a lawyer would likely take up the cause of people promoting piracy on multiple formats through emulators.

I find it rather baffling that you'd call the RetroArch developer (and by extension any who develops for PC emulators, regardless of it it's the emulation core or a frontend) "people promoting piracy". Especially
1) In the context of what is essentially a contention between an emulator developer and a company alleged to have stolen their code for a device that runs emulators.
2) When there are now ways of interfacing cartridges on PCs, meaning said emulators can be used in much the same way as the Retron5 can, except without features intentionally restricted.

Also, the IPS patch workaround for loading ROMs is so basic and obvious it's actually pretty ridiculous. I would've THOUGHT Hyperkin would've had a DRM mechanism to detect such a thing, but that was before the allegations of stolen code occurred. As such, I can't buy any argument that puts Hyperkin on some "anti-piracy" ethical pedestal, and I think anyone who'd defend them as if they are such are not thinking rationally. Using this method, you can still pirate on your Retron5. What can't you do, still, though? Load ROMs you've legitimately dumped into the hardware, or move your legitimately-dumped ROM backups into any permanent storage.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.



Now, back on topic, has anyone gotten any cheat files for Sega Genesis/MegaDrive games to work? Even on the latest firmware, none of any games I've tried seems to work with the cheat files. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong?

[Gameguy]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
This thread is for discussing the Retron5, not just for Retron5 technical support. Discussing the theft that the Retron5 took part in is related to the Retron5 so it can be discussed here. At least it's something less boring to talk about than just never-ending firmware updates.

Maybe you'd want to start your own thread on the console, Satoshi_Matrix's Retron5 Shill Thread. No negative comments or free discussion allowed.

[Squarepusher]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.


Hi there, I'm leading the libretro/RetroArch project. You may also know my work from that SNES9x emulator fork you're using right now on your precious Retron5. You know, the one that is still licensed under a non-commercial license, is shipped with your device and still has yet to be removed from your device so as to comply with the license (it's called 'noncommercial' for a reason, you know).

BTW - their half-hearted and incomplete sourcecode release did not give up the sourcecode to their frontend. We found offending RetroArch code in their frontend -

http://imgur.com/a/i56YF

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/ (see the 'RetroArch' section)

Since those snippets of sourcecode were GPLv3-licensed, therefore, GPLv3 takes precedence and therefore their ENTIRE FRONTEND needs to be licensed under the GPLv3, and sourcecode needs to be provided on a public place. BTW to Tanooki's 'special friends' in case they're reading along - that means ENTIRE FRONTEND SOURCECODE - no flimsy 'wrapper API header' and calling it a day this time.

Oh BTW - since it's using GPLv3 code - there's still this pesky issue that the way the Retron5 is currently being sold as a TIVOized box is entirely illegal. Complete de-TIVOization is needed here to make it not a GPLv3 violation. There was a reason why the creators of the GPLv2 went to the trouble of making an updated version - a version 3.0 - to address the issue of TIVOization abuse that was a problem with GPL version 2.

Refer to that here for more information -

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#Tivoization



Some devices utilize free software that can be upgraded, but are designed so that users are not allowed to modify that software. There are lots of different ways to do this; for example, sometimes the hardware checksums the software that is installed, and shuts down if it doesn't match an expected signature. The manufacturers comply with GPLv2 by giving you the source code, but you still don't have the freedom to modify the software you're using. We call this practice tivoization.

When people distribute User Products that include software under GPLv3, section 6 requires that they provide you with information necessary to modify that software. User Products is a term specially defined in the license; examples of User Products include portable music players, digital video recorders, and home security systems.


Oh BTW, in light of that, what Mr. Chris Gallizi wrote here is yet even more evidence that they aren't following the spirit (AND the letter in this case) of GPLv3 - something they should have thought of before they went ahead and copied our Sinc resampler code and our audio utils code wholecloth -

http://www.gamnesia.com/articles/gamnesias-exclusive-scoop-on-the-upcoming-retron-5#.VCKBh-IvBhE



Assuming someone does break into it, how are you going to deal with that?
We do provide firmware updates through SD card support. If we start noticing people hacking and things like that—which I'm not against whatsoever; that's the times we live in now, where if you could hack something, you're a genius—we can release firmwares at any moment that would be required to start playing games. With that, you know, we can limit the control on that. - See more at: http://www.gamnesia.com/articles/gamnesias-exclusive-scoop-on-the-upcoming-retron-5#.VCKBh-IvBhE


No, you can't do that. Because that would constitute TIVOization. But thanks for letting us all know your prior intent anyway with this product and how you planned on violating the GPLv3-licensed software on your product that is not yours, Mr. Gallizi. I'm sure the FSF will appreciate that very much.

[JSoup]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.

Again, you don't decide what is or is not worth discussing. As has been pointed out to you before, this is a Retron5 subject in a Retron5 thread, people are on about it so it's not going away any time soon. Deal with it.

[zero_limit]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
It should matter to anyone who's buying this, specially to anyone who cares so much about authenticity. It's not just about licenses.

First thing, Retron 5 is using stolen emulators such as SNES9X-next, which is far from an accurate emulator. It's made with intuitive speed hacks to run on systems tight on specs at the sacrifice of accuracy, and as such, lacks timing precision between chips as well as some other graphical effects in certain games, among other things; it's not like the real thing at all and it wasn't supposed to be. If I'm going to pay this much for a system and play my own cartridges, I'd want an authentic experience - specially since the Retron 5 costs more than the actual consoles, much more than a good RGB cable for the SNES and a GBS-8200, and the fraction of a premium upscaler like the XRGB-mini. Hyperkin should have mentioned this from the beginning.

Second. It's using Retroarch's "upscaling code", but doesn't support any of it's shaders that correct scaling issues (such as "pixellate"). I'm talking about this, right here:
https://archive.moe/vr/thread/1908706/#1910393

Not to tell the whole thing runs on Android, which isn't exactly perfect for emulation. You put all of this in perspective and you have one large issue.

[Tanooki]

I bought one, so did Satoshi, neither of us care about that. All this chest pounding is only that to the end consumer. Most people don't know what a GPL license is nor gives a care, hell most don't even click on the shit on their Windows OS or Playstation where they agree to a crap load of terms just to open it up.

Satoshi may come off as trying to control the thread, and yeah he's a control freak, but he is right. This thread was meant to discuss the system and since it has been out has been all about shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases. Maybe a new thread is needed for that since this one has been derailed legal saber rattling and that hardly is about shilling, it's just about those who own one and want to discuss such things is all and there's not a damn thing wrong with that at all. So much for that Genesis question he had right?

I can see increasingly so Gallizi is slimy, that's a given, and since it's out there now I did know a few days earlier the GPL drop for what it was was coming, and I also knew that mgmt has no intent on ever putting it out there but once they got caught, they finally listened to the tech who wanted it out there initially and what did get put out there was done. Good luck getting them to release the source to their frontend, I just doubt that'll happen without some big legal shoving considering it isn't totally lifted public emulator code and they developed the thing.

[badinsults]

I bought one, so did Satoshi, neither of us care about that. All this chest pounding is only that to the end consumer. Most people don't know what a GPL license is nor gives a care, hell most don't even click on the shit on their Windows OS or Playstation where they agree to a crap load of terms just to open it up.

Satoshi may come off as trying to control the thread, and yeah he's a control freak, but he is right. This thread was meant to discuss the system and since it has been out has been all about shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases. Maybe a new thread is needed for that since this one has been derailed legal saber rattling and that hardly is about shilling, it's just about those who own one and want to discuss such things is all and there's not a damn thing wrong with that at all. So much for that Genesis question he had right?

I can see increasingly so Gallizi is slimy, that's a given, and since it's out there now I did know a few days earlier the GPL drop for what it was was coming, and I also knew that mgmt has no intent on ever putting it out there but once they got caught, they finally listened to the tech who wanted it out there initially and what did get put out there was done. Good luck getting them to release the source to their frontend, I just doubt that'll happen without some big legal shoving considering it isn't totally lifted public emulator code and they developed the thing.



You should care. If the emulators authors want to, they could get a lawyer send a cease and desist order, and force them to remove SNES9x and other emulators from the system. Then you will be stuck with a brick that will never get updated, because it would take thousands of man-hours to create a new emulator from scatch.

The whole point of the Retron 5 was so that you could play legit carts on a system with modern conveniences. But in doing so, they broke the law. They are basically in the same grey area as people using ROM images they downloaded off the Internet. Emulator authors are very cautious about commerical usage of their emulators, because they don't want Nintendo et al breathing down their neck.

[Tanooki]

Well I don't. I don't work for them, what they do has no baring on my life or what I still do enjoy with games. If they vanished, I have the unit, and I still have my original systems as I wasn't dumb enough to sell those (boxed them up.) I figure it's 50/50 it goes away or not, but in time it'll blow over with a lot of complaining just like the NeoGeoX/Tommo scandal did. People get loud and hot, things roll on for awhile, and then people get bored and move onto the next thing to get a cause going over it.

The cores on the thing short of bandaids for an obscure game here or there are done so for me the damage is done and it serves its purpose. It would be more of a burn on anyone who still wants one if it got shut down. The emulators themselves are plugins, I'm sure if an agreement can't be met they'll just find something else to shove in there or shut it down, whatever makes more sense cash wise. I know why emulator authors are touchy, you said it there, but that cat is now officially out of the bag thanks to hyperkin so the damage is done.

[GarrettCRW]

Tanooki wants us to ignore the issue because he's tight with Hyperkin, and unlike SegaAges, he doesn't have the integrity to call them on their bullshit.

Messiah essentially got shamed out of existence when it was discovered that the NEX used the same standard NOAC architecture for their system. Now, there's no reason to do the same with Hyperkin, but they do deserve to pay a price for ripping off developers who have provided software for non-commercial purposes, to say nothing of their decision to not disclose any of this (or of the Android usage) until pressured. Ethics matter, and there's been a HUGE breach here.

[nusilver]

Emulator authors are very cautious about commerical usage of their emulators, because they don't want Nintendo et al breathing down their neck.

Except that they developed their emulators to play illegally dumped ROMs. Let's NEVER forget that point when we're in here adopting this high and mighty tone.

[GarrettCRW]

Well I don't. I don't work for them, what they do has no baring on my life or what I still do enjoy with games. If they vanished, I have the unit, and I still have my original systems as I wasn't dumb enough to sell those (boxed them up.) I figure it's 50/50 it goes away or not, but in time it'll blow over with a lot of complaining just like the NeoGeoX/Tommo scandal did. People get loud and hot, things roll on for awhile, and then people get bored and move onto the next thing to get a cause going over it.

The cores on the thing short of bandaids for an obscure game here or there are done so for me the damage is done and it serves its purpose. It would be more of a burn on anyone who still wants one if it got shut down. The emulators themselves are plugins, I'm sure if an agreement can't be met they'll just find something else to shove in there or shut it down, whatever makes more sense cash wise. I know why emulator authors are touchy, you said it there, but that cat is now officially out of the bag thanks to hyperkin so the damage is done.

TL;DR: "I got what I want, so fuck everyone else."

[GarrettCRW]

Except that they developed their emulators to play illegally dumped ROMs. Let's NEVER forget that point when we're in here adopting this high and mighty tone.

The VCR could be used to pirate material, but was no less legal. Besides, stealing from someone you deem to be a thief is still wrong.

[macdude22]

It would be more of a burn on anyone who still wants one if it got shut down. .

So you're saying I should hold onto my unopened Retron 5 until the market explodes and I can retire at 31 rich beyond my wildest dreams. Good. Good. :rocker:

[Market Man]

wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.

Citizens, I return! Majestically I sweep in from above with my money cape billowing and arms outstretched with triumphant fists, knuckles eager to smash idiocy and hypocrisy! Fists hungry to plunge into the colonic depths of unseemly criminal scum.

This thread is 95% useless back and forth banter of two individuals curiously invested in a product designed to be one thing: A fucking money grab at the height of retrogame mania. That's 50+ pages of shill that would have been called on (and squished) much sooner had this transpired during DP's prime. I find that sort of conversation boring and actually a little aggravating, so when I get a sniff of some controversy and underhanded behavior, my nipples get excited!

But if you don't want us to talk about that, can we talk about how you might be a thief, Satoshi? (http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44746) Is that why you hang around here all the time because you've burned so many people on other forum haunts? It's certainly understandable that you'd crawl here and make yourself at home with a belligerent Nintendo Age reject.

Whoever these unfortunate people are, know that the sensible alternative to getting your wallet reamed is to make an emulation box of your own, without the arbitrary limitations!

[dra600n]

Except that they developed their emulators to play illegally dumped ROMs. Let's NEVER forget that point when we're in here adopting this high and mighty tone.

I doubt the authors of emulators do so with the sole intent of playing games for free, as it takes an abundant knowledge of learning the hardware in and out, but more for the knowledge of how everything works and possibly for development for their own projects on a specific console (I'm not saying that this is their sole purpose either, because I'm sure it's both reasons, plus several others). The majority of emulation users is for the reason to play games for free, though :P

[JSoup]

This thread was meant to discuss the system and since it has been out has been all about shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases.

No, it's not. The topic was meant for shadowkn55 to share his view on the Retron5 before it was released, Satoshi turned it to an R5 humpfest. Maybe a new thread is needed for shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases.

[badinsults]

Except that they developed their emulators to play illegally dumped ROMs. Let's NEVER forget that point when we're in here adopting this high and mighty tone.

You really have no idea.

Go ask someone like byuu if the sole intent of making his super accurate emulator was to play games illegally. If that was true, why did he go through the efforts of buying every single US and Japanese SNES game?


In general, emulator authors make the emulators out of genuine curiosity of how the hardware works, and as a means of doing preservation. Do you really think that they would put restrictive licenses on their programs if all they wanted out of it was to play games that they don't own? Through their beligerance, Hyperkin is essentially alienating the very people who made their product possible, and the least they can do is to fully adhere to the software licenses that the code is under.

[Tanooki]

Tanooki wants us to ignore the issue because he's tight with Hyperkin, and unlike SegaAges, he doesn't have the integrity to call them on their bullshit.

Messiah essentially got shamed out of existence when it was discovered that the NEX used the same standard NOAC architecture for their system. Now, there's no reason to do the same with Hyperkin, but they do deserve to pay a price for ripping off developers who have provided software for non-commercial purposes, to say nothing of their decision to not disclose any of this (or of the Android usage) until pressured. Ethics matter, and there's been a HUGE breach here.

Why is it a few of you think it's so cute to put words in my mouth eh? I'm not tight with them, hell I'm annoyed at them at the moment because my replacement system was a scuffed up refurb that was DOA with a system error. I'm just friends with the tech, not the company. I just don't give a damn about the license violations and that's it. Whenever I have a working one back, it does what I want, and that's really all I give a damn about at all. Looking into it more like some conspiracy theorist on a mission is nuts. It has nothing to do with integrity as I don't work for them and I really don't care if they use someones emulator as it's not my problem and I'm not the one that'll have to lawyer up over it. I also did say the tech did want it out there from the beginning and the company wouldn't allow it, so actually I kind of did throw them under the bus on that one a little. I'd be lying if I said I'd be thrilled if someone puts a guide so easy a kid could do it showing how to load other stuff on it as it's just ripe for being busted open. I did see a proof of concept video on youtube by retron labo that has FF7 (ps1), JJ & Jeff (TG16), and MAME going and that's interesting to me.


"I got what I want, so fuck everyone else."

I don't care about their situation as I'm not legally involved. It's funny though a year or two ago I'd have felt differently but certain elements of old Nintendo era gaming has turned me pretty sour to much of it. I'm currently selling off various games I'd never have a month ago as I want to put it towards a laptop.


No, it's not. The topic was meant for shadowkn55 to share his view on the Retron5 before it was released, Satoshi turned it to an R5 humpfest. Maybe a new thread is needed for shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases.

I jumped in on it later after it converted into discussing the hardware as I had(have) one, so if that's needed then Satoshi there instead of whining just needs to make one and the users who have one can explore that and this can be the primary thread for a huge catch all of everything on the whole.

[BTR]

The Retron5 could have been a way for people to use emulation and real hardware in a legal and (not perfect, but quite good) best of both words approach.

no RGB modding & no region modding of consoles and/or region adapters
no expensive scalers or decade old CRTs
not having multiple systems hooked to one TV
but also
no hunting after out-of-print Retrode2 devices and expensive adapters to do "legal" dumping
no gray area downloads of roms to feed to emulators (downloading roms of games you legally purchased falls under fair use? in every country? undeniably?)
no USB adapters for controllers to use emulators

I think the above makes clear that I care much about legal aspects. As it appeares now, Hyperkin didn't care so much about these aspects. Therefore I don't want to support their products.

[Market Man's Crotch]

I find that sort of conversation boring and actually a little aggravating, so when I get a sniff of some controversy and underhanded behavior, my nipples get excited!



Jeepers, Market Man! Do I have competition?

[Cryog]

Sega SG 1000 roms games works fine with the .ips patch "hack".

7648

SG 1000 Zaxxon

[Satoshi_Matrix]

has any one figured out what's up with the cheat files on Genesis/MegaDrive games not working?

[Market Man]

has any one figured out what's up with the cheat files on Genesis/MegaDrive games not working?

Hay just want to remind everyone that you're a thief and a liar. (http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=94490)

[JSoup]

Have him try these:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b5kjabm681te5/Patches_for_Retron_5

They're patches i've fixed (or created on a select few) myself for the Retron 5 specifically. Make sure bare minimum he's on 2.0 Beta 3 or higher. Also no, the file names of the patches do not need to match with the cartridge name at all, you could call them whatever you want and i've fixed, created, or applied many patches that have proven that. Also just have him keep the header option off on Super Famicom/SNES games when using those patches, I strip the header of the match SNES rom before I make any patch to keep it simple. Headers are an old fossil left over from the earlier days of cartridge dumping and really not necessary anymore and all games are dumped onto the Retron 5 without the header anyway.

I passed this on to the guy and he's ecstatic, thank you kindly.
How exactly do you make a patch "Retron ready" so to speak? It seemed strange to me that any would need to be specifically set up for R5 use, working on what little I know of patch application.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

[comment removed due to better judgement prevailing]

[JSoup]

Can we stop with the personal attacks, everyone? We can easily have two different R5 related discussions here while still remaining civil.

Edit: Remainder of post removed at request.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

actually, you're right. I should not instigate the troll. this is hardly an appropriate place to voice my anger at NA's awful elitism anyway.

I've removed my comment. please also remove yours. personal attacks need simply be ignored.

[R9delta]

I passed this on to the guy and he's ecstatic, thank you kindly.
How exactly do you make a patch "Retron ready" so to speak? It seemed strange to me that any would need to be specifically set up for R5 use, working on what little I know of patch application.

There's several reasons why a patch may need to be made "Retron ready". One example being that when SNES emulation was in it's prime (popularity wise) most of the roms that were uploaded to the internet was with what's called a "header" embedded into them. A header is just a set of information that's used by the copier that dumped the rom in the first place. When the Retron 5 dumps roms from the cartridge it dumps them without a header...which is what it should be doing as there's no reason for headers anymore these days. The problem with that is that most older translation patches were made based on roms that have that header there. The Retron 5 may have the option to fake the rom dump having a header but in my experience half the time that option does not work correctly...and prior to Update 2.0 beta 3, that option wasn't available anyway.

Another simpler reason that a patch may need to be redone is that maybe a specific patch is written for a different version of the same game than what you or your friend have. Let's say your friend is trying to use a translation for Tactics Ogre. Well the primary problem with that is that the patch is written for v1.2 of the game...your friend has version 1.0. Hence the patch will just black screen or crash if you try it. A patch will only work on the SPECIFIC rom it's written for. If your cartridge does not match it EXACTLY, it will not work. So it's not so much as making a patch "Retron ready" as it is making a patch for the version you have if one is not out there.

The only reason there's a need for any of this is because you're restricted to cartridges. On an emulator that lets you load roms of your choosing..if a patch doesn't work on a rom you've got, well then you just need to go download the one it does work on or download a pre-patched rom. Simple solution to a simple problem. In the Retron 5's case if the patch doesn't work on what you've got then, well you're screwed, or you buy the cartridge/rom the patch was written for, or you do what I'm doing and just fix the patches to work with what you have.

Anyway making a patch is simple, it's just taking one rom and another and making comparison file between the two that converts from one to the other. If you'd like to see how it's done (it's a 5 minute process for most games) I've posted a video on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmc6Bu3LsD4

There's no voice over or annotations as I'm lazy but i've linked and described exactly what I did in the description. If you have any questions you can reach me on the forum that's linked in the description as I won't be on here often.

[Leo_A]

Sega SG 1000 roms games works fine with the .ips patch "hack".

7648

SG 1000 Zaxxon

I'm not familiar with the capabilities of the Genesis emulator that they've borrowed, but if 32X games are compatible, has anyone tried that with this workaround?

It probably wouldn't happen, but I'd love to see the Retron 5's follow-up someday offer 32X support. Not support for the 32X peripheral itself, but direct support.

[Market Man's Crotch]

Hay just want to remind everyone that you're a thief and a liar. (http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=94490)

Well, you're not always so truthful yourself, Market Man. Just the other day you said you'd take me out in the park, and you never did!

[Market Man]

Patience, my pendulous pet.

[Az]

Realtec's Genesis games do not work, as suspected before, but obviously no big loss since their games are pure rubbish.

Strange thing is Gens Plus GX supports all the copy protection in the Realtec mapper and will run unpatched dumps of their games. However the R5 never gets to the point that it dumps the ROM, anytime a Realtec cart is inserted it throws up a cart slot power error.

Obviously no protected SNES game work since no emulator supports them outright and cracked ROMs have to be used. Has anyone tried any Sega Super Fighter Team games on this? What about Sega games like Puggsy that lock up if they detect SRAM? Or the SNES game (can't remember what it was) that went apeshit and spiked the difficulty if it detected it was running on a copier?

[R9delta]

Or the SNES game (can't remember what it was) that went apeshit and spiked the difficulty if it detected it was running on a copier?

Earthbound? If that's what you're referring to, it works fine. Even running the equivalent japanese version (Mother 2) with a patch to convert it to Earthbound works fine.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah, EarthBound plays just fine on the Retron5. Unlike SA-1 and Super FX games.

[Tanooki]

Since when do SA1 and FX games not work on the R5? Did I miss something? I did some light Kirby play and have run some missions of both Starfox titles, DOOM and Yoshis Island on it.

[Leo_A]

I wonder if controller port 2 for any of the three pairs of controller ports can be used for player 1 on this thing? Would be convenient since it would allow a secondary controller that's regularly used to always be plugged in at the ready (like your favorite arcade stick).

Came across this old post of mine and thought I'd bump the question. Could I keep, for instance, my ASCII SuperNes arcade stick and my ASCII SuperNes gamepad plugged into the two controller ports at the same time and switch off as necessary?

Or does player 1's controller always have to be plugged into port 1, despite this being an emulation machine not bound to the same constraints as original hardware?

Hardly important beyond satisfying my curiosity, but that's reason enough to ask. ;)

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Since when do SA1 and FX games not work on the R5? Did I miss something? I did some light Kirby play and have run some missions of both Starfox titles, DOOM and Yoshis Island on it.

They technically work, but the performance is terrible.

I've noticed it in every single Super FX game I've got:

Star Fox
Stunt Racer FX
Vortex
Star Fox 2 Repro
Yoshi's Island

All of them will randomly pause for 1-2 seconds which also cuts out the audio. It renders them unplayable on account of emulation issues.

This is something Hyperkin urgently needs to fix. The same thing happens with Mario RPG.

[Tanooki]

The only one in that list of games I noted I had that did have a problem with Yoshi's Island and haven't checked it since around v1.41 of the firmware where it acted like bad frame skipping in a couple of stages but not the others, and that was the sync bug he supposedly repaired in a later release. My broken RMA I got last monday arrived at Hyperkin on Friday, so I should have yet another system sometime this week. Of your list I do not have Stunt Race or Vortex, did own them at one time though they're oddly not bad albeit slow on real hardware which is a shame as speed would have made them enjoyable (especially the racer.)

[R9delta]

Might want to mention it to Retron Tech specifically to get help with troubleshooting if you hadn't already since it's not a problem that everyone is experiencing. I've done a complete playthrough of Star Fox 1 and 2 (using a patch for 2, not a repro though), and a good chunk of Yoshi's Island and SMRPG and none are having the issue you've described..though there is some frame dropping here and there on Yoshi's Island (though nothing completely broken like is claimed), even when using the Super 2xSai or HQ2X filter. Same without any filters. This is as of 2.0 Stable.

[Az]

Came across this old post of mine and thought I'd bump the question. Could I keep, for instance, my ASCII SuperNes arcade stick and my ASCII SuperNes gamepad plugged into the two controller ports at the same time and switch off as necessary?

You can do this but it's not as simple as just picking up the controller and pressing start, you change one small setting on the frontend prior to starting the game.

By default the system is setup so anything on the left side is P1 and anything on the right side is P2. If you want to swap between controllers plugged up on the same side then all you have to do is pick them up, no change in settings needed.

If you want to use a controller on the right (2P) side as a 1P controller, you enter the controller setup and change the P1 setting from "any controller on P1 side" to "SNES P2 port" (or whatever). The tiny inconvenience of taking 5 seconds to change this setting is outweighed by being able to leave 7+ controllers hooked up to the system and change on the fly.

Edit...

The section you go to to change this setting is the same place you'd go to setup the control ports for emulating a multi-tap. It doesn't take but a second to change (especially if you're just changing it to do what you mentioned) but I've not fooled with it enough to determine if it keeps this change after you power the system off or until you manually change it back. From what I can tell you can't save it as a game specific setting, only as a system specific one.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

My long delayed full review of the Retron5 has begun today with part 1 of what will be a 9 part video series detailing in depth the Retron5 as it currently is. Like my other reviews, my aim is to be as through as possible and include way more detailed information than you would find....anywhere.

Here's Part 1. New installments will be out daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_18ema35ZSs