RetroN5: Hands on first look

[Leo_A]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRvUBLDdEQE&list=TLwBxM8zkaPU6bNU9ridub1GOK1YfJr4ol

I was hoping it would have this ability. Will be handy for changing out save batteries. And hopefully it will offer some other advantages.

I wonder if I'd be able to get all the known e-Reader add-ons for Super Mario Brothers 3 onto my cartridge by downloading the appropriate file to SD card and writing it to my own cartridge?

[nusilver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRvUBLDdEQE&list=TLwBxM8zkaPU6bNU9ridub1GOK1YfJr4ol

I was hoping it would have this ability. Will be handy for changing out save batteries. And hopefully it will offer some other advantages.

I wonder if I'd be able to get all the known e-Reader add-ons for Super Mario Brothers 3 onto my cartridge by downloading the appropriate file to SD card and writing it to my own cartridge?

You know, I can do this with a DS Lite and a slot-1 flash cart. It's been about 3 years since I last did it and I think the deal is I can get all but two of the levels on there because of limited storage space, but if you're interested, PM me and we can probably work something out. I'd just need to brush up on the process. :-)

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Isn't the fact that this is just a box that runs emulators fairly new news? I know it was speculated when they first announced it'd do save states and the like, but I don't remember it ever really being confirmed until people got their hands on the thing. I was hoping against this.

With the knowledge that this IS an emulator box, you're right, there is no reason to choose this over something like an Ouya or Gamestick or any other number of set-top Android machines.

No no, Hyperkin announced last winter that the RetroN5 would be Android based, which meant emulation right off the bat. The only thing that's new news is exactly how it does that - ie. by dumping the contents of the carts to rom and then running those roms as any other emulator would.

As to where the RetroN5 fits in between the other options like Ouya, I think it would be unfair to prejudge the RetroN5, especially since it isn't out yet, and I've yet to try it. I wasn't and I still am not trying to suggest the Ouya is a better option, especially for everyone. I was specifically referring to those people who planned on buying a RetroN5 solely to run flashcarts. Compared with that specific situation, the Ouya would make a lot more sense than an emulator machine running roms off a flashcart not designed for an emulator machine.




Maybe this has already been answered and I missed it...

But what is the point of the console needing to check a pre-programmed database of roms? If it's an emulation machine, I don't understand why that would be the case. If it's reading the data directly from the cart and putting it through an emulator, the data is right there so why cross check? If it's dumping the rom from the cart, then emulating it, it just dumped the rom so the data is right there so why cross check?

The cross checking seems like a useless middleman that will only hurt compatibility.

The fact is, we simply don't know yet. It could be the preprogrammed database is used for game rom identification purposes so that it can automatically bring up gamegenie codes or perhaps box art. I suspect that hacks or homebrews or unlicensed games may still work, but just come up as unknown games. That's speculation as is everything else, because the system isn't out yet and Hyperkin hasn't confirmed anything on the subject.





I was hoping it would have this ability. Will be handy for changing out save batteries. And hopefully it will offer some other advantages.
I wonder if I'd be able to get all the known e-Reader add-ons for Super Mario Brothers 3 onto my cartridge by downloading the appropriate file to SD card and writing it to my own cartridge?

Savestates are a given. Any emulator worth a damn has savestates. It's unheard of for an emulator not to offer savestates. *COUGHCOUGHWIIVIRUTALCONSOLE*

I doubt the RetroN5 will allow you to dump a rom to another medium. What would Hyperkin gain by allowing you to do that? It's not like they have any reason to do so, other than it would be nice.


You know, I can do this with a DS Lite and a slot-1 flash cart. It's been about 3 years since I last did it and I think the deal is I can get all but two of the levels on there because of limited storage space, but if you're interested, PM me and we can probably work something out. I'd just need to brush up on the process. :-)

Do...you have a Mario Advance 4 rom that has the e-reader stages? I bought the game on launch, but I never bought an e-reader. If you've got a rom that has those stages unlocked, that would be something that I'd be interested in. could you email me at satoshimatrix@hotmail.com? Thanks.

[Leo_A]

Thanks for the offer, I very well might take you up on it. :)


No no, Hyperkin announced last winter that the RetroN5 would be Android base

Savestates are a given. Any emulator worth a damn has savestates. It's unheard of for an emulator not to offer savestates. *COUGHCOUGHWIIVIRUTALCONSOLE*

They did not, it's speculation that it's Android based and remains to be confirmed.

And I wasn't talking about save states. I was talking about its ability to read and write saves to the cartridge itself, anything but a given when it dumps cartridges. And most Wii emulators do have a suspend state feature which offers the convenience of a save state without the ability to abuse it.

[nusilver]

Do...you have a Mario Advance 4 rom that has the e-reader stages? I bought the game on launch, but I never bought an e-reader. If you've got a rom that has those stages unlocked, that would be something that I'd be interested in. could you email me at satoshimatrix@hotmail.com? Thanks.

Hey, In fact, I have a cart that has the e-reader stages unlocked, which I accomplished by copying a downloaded save from a slot-1 flashcart to my GBA cart. I checked it last night - it's 32 stages, not including the remakes of stages from Super Mario Bros (there's a 32 stage limit in the cart's memory, I guess.)

I'll find the save file and send you a copy in a bit. You can use it with an emulator or whatever, too. :)

[nusilver]

Thanks for the offer, I very well might take you up on it. :)


And by the way, all I'm really talking about is you paying shipping both ways to get your cart to/from me. It shouldn't be hard to do, once I track down the necessary files, etc.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

They did not, it's speculation that it's Android based and remains to be confirmed.

I might be mistaken, and I apologize if I am, but I seem to recall they announced it would be android based way, way back when a lot of the first details broke early last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcNy7t17LA

[Leo_A]

I scanned that but got bored halfway through. Does it mention that it's Android based?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah, that's where I recall it was announced with a lot of other things.

[Leo_A]

Scanned it all the way through and still missed it. When does he say that it's Android based?

That boring presentation is hard to pay attention to. Felt like I was back in college listening to one dull student presentation after another with PowerPoint slides.

[mercuryshadow09]

You can't play light gun games on an HDTV. That's not a big issue for most consoles, but for some, like the Master System, NES, PS1, and PS2 you block off a chunk of the library. Most of those games are good!

This is the issue for me, I own two Guncon2's and pretty much every PS2 shooting game and I love them much more than the million and a half FPS shooters of today!

[mercuryshadow09]

Sure, but the Ouya removes a lot of the hassle. No PC interface to deal with, no lengthy boot times, no mouse based navigation, just boot and go directly to the game on your big screen tv and sit on your sofa, as opposed to sitting at your desk on your computer screen.

I've got a PC connected to a 42 inch HDTV right next to my bed, and on the other side is my 32 inch CRT, are you getting paid by the Ouya devs to promote that thing?

[JSoup]

I've got a PC connected to a 42 inch HDTV right next to my bed, and on the other side is my 32 inch CRT, are you getting paid by the Ouya devs to promote that thing?

I see him on about the Retron5 more often than the Ouya, so I'd say the opposite.
Unless he's being paid to promote both at odds. That's marketing that creates itself.

[mercuryshadow09]

What would Hyperkin gain by allowing you to do that? It's not like they have any reason to do so, other than it would be nice.

More customers? More money? More features means more interest!

[mercuryshadow09]

I see him on about the Retron5 more often than the Ouya, so I'd say the opposite.
Unless he's being paid to promote both at odds. That's marketing that creates itself.

This is my first thread on DP, I found it trying to Google info on the RetroN5, he has mentioned the Ouya in just about every post after the first page!

[Satoshi_Matrix]

This is the issue for me, I own two Guncon2's and pretty much every PS2 shooting game and I love them much more than the million and a half FPS shooters of today!

Then you are in the smallest minority of minorities. Companies like Hyperkin do not consider light gun support to be of a significent concern as to potentially address the issue as they could in theory, release a bluetooth based HDTV ready lightgun for the RetroN5. Since they've said nothing, I doubt that will ever happen, at least not officially. So for light gun games, simply keep your old systems and CRTs set up for that. For everything else though...


I've got a PC connected to a 42 inch HDTV right next to my bed, and on the other side is my 32 inch CRT, are you getting paid by the Ouya devs to promote that thing?

First, doesn't that mean you still have to sit at your computer desk? I've thought about ways to merge pc use with the convenience of consoles in the living room and I can't sort out how you could do that without either playing games via your computer desk or setting up a wireless mouse and keyboard by the sofa. Either way seems absurd to me.

And no of course I'm not being paid by Ouya. I simply am directly comparing it as an emulation powerhouse compared to using the RetroN5 for much the same reason.


I see him on about the Retron5 more often than the Ouya, so I'd say the opposite.
Unless he's being paid to promote both at odds. That's marketing that creates itself.

I'm not promoting either. If I was, I wouldn't be so forthcoming with admitting to their shortcomings. The Ouya has some issues, and the Retron5 probably will too when it gets released. I'm merely discussing the RetroN5, and the Ouya naturally comes up as it's an extremely similar product. I mean, think about it. They're both Android based, $99 units that come with bluetooth controllers and play retro games though HDMI. There are differences of course, but they share a heck of a lot in commmon.


More customers? More money? More features means more interest!

You...don't understand. Businesses have to judge what be popular and sell vs what the hardest of their hardcore fan base may want. I'm sorry, but the answer to the question "what would Hyperkin have to gain by allowing users to dump their games to rom and then transfer them elsewhere" is simply not "more customers/money". That's just not how it works.

Consider that Hyperkin doesn't make any flashcarts, doesn't make other clone devices or handhelds that directly work with roms, and that technically speaking backing up of copywritten materials beyond 72 hours is illegal, even if you don't distribute it. They have nothing to gain by allowing users to dump their own carts to roms. Of course I'm only speculating, but I don't think that will be a feature the RetroN5 offers. Them doing so would not increase sales/demand in any meaningful way whatsoever.

Remember, the vast majority of people who will buy this thing are casual gamers who don't even know what a rom is in the first place.


This is my first thread on DP, I found it trying to Google info on the RetroN5, he has mentioned the Ouya in just about every post after the first page!


Then I would like to point you to the much larger 17 page thread that has been home to the Retron5 discussion for many many months. The only reason this thread exists is because someone claiming to have early access leaked some info, and then retracted all their statements, and since then the discussion has spilled over here.

please read through the entire other thread to gain an understanding of who I am, what I'm saying, and why. thank you kindly.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?166619-RetroN-5-is-officially-a-thing-apparently

[mercuryshadow09]

Then you are in the smallest minority of minorities. Companies like Hyperkin do not consider light gun support to be of a significent concern as to potentially address the issue as they could in theory, release a bluetooth based HDTV ready lightgun for the RetroN5. Since they've said nothing, I doubt that will ever happen, at least not officially. So for light gun games, simply keep your old systems and CRTs set up for that. For everything else though...

I'm not suggesting they add support for the 12 or so people that want it, I was just trying to participate in the thread!



First, doesn't that mean you still have to sit at your computer desk? I've thought about ways to merge pc use with the convenience of consoles in the living room and I can't sort out how you could do that without either playing games via your computer desk or setting up a wireless mouse and keyboard by the sofa. Either way seems absurd to me.

I don't own a computer desk, I have wireless mouse, keyboard and controller, I can lay in my bed and go to town, I am laying under the covers in my PJ's right now as I post this! It actually started out as a media center PC until I got an actual media player!

And no of course I'm not being paid by Ouya. I simply am directly comparing it as an emulation powerhouse compared to using the RetroN5 for much the same reason.

Makes no difference, I was commenting as somebody who's never been to this site before and saw that you mentioned the Ouya in almost every post! Whether you see the humor or not, as the new guy it was funny as hell!



I'm not promoting either. If I was, I wouldn't be so forthcoming with admitting to their shortcomings. The Ouya has some issues, and the Retron5 probably will too when it gets released. I'm merely discussing the RetroN5, and the Ouya naturally comes up as it's an extremely similar product. I mean, think about it. They're both Android based, $99 units that come with bluetooth controllers and play retro games though HDMI. There are differences of course, but they share a heck of a lot in commmon.



You...don't understand. Businesses have to judge what be popular and sell vs what the hardest of their hardcore fan base may want. I'm sorry, but the answer to the question "what would Hyperkin have to gain by allowing users to dump their games to rom and then transfer them elsewhere" is simply not "more customers/money". That's just not how it works.

Yes, I do understand, I'm one of those people who went with the Xbox over the PS2 because you could play your own music, you see where Microshaft made money because they added a feature? I'm not the only one who bought one because of that, features sell son! You got money but you're not going to get the power package in your new car? Do you see the err in what you are saying?






please read through the entire other thread to gain an understanding of who I am, what I'm saying, and why. thank you kindly.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?166619-RetroN-5-is-officially-a-thing-apparently

If this isn't a requirement I would like to gladly decline!

[Tanooki]

Well if you decline, don't blindly assume stuff when the answers are there. :P He's an armchair reviewer that covers stuff in print and video so that's why you get all the commentary and discussion as he keeps up with stuff and will review things as he gets them.

As far as zapper support, I'd love to have it too, but there is a point in business where you hit a zero return level, and light guns would definitely be that because they'd never get their money back on making a bluetooth gun and coding it so it can detect the different ways various systems detect the signal from a pistol to register a hit or a miss.

[mercuryshadow09]

Well if you decline, don't blindly assume stuff when the answers are there. :P He's an armchair reviewer that covers stuff in print and video so that's why you get all the commentary and discussion as he keeps up with stuff and will review things as he gets them.



I assumed nothing, I simply pointed out the humor in his posts, is there something you don't like about me pointing out the humor in his posts, are you getting hostile? Go drink a cup of tea, take a dump and relax man, no need to go jumping on somebody for a simple post, I'm just here to enjoy my hobby like you and him, I'm not here to fight and make enemies!

[Satoshi_Matrix]

mercuryshadow09, please don't take my comments as personal attacks or paid advertisements. They are nothing of the sort.

I am pro Ouya but only because I legitimately and honestly believe it to be an awesome option to go with. Your PC set up isn't something that I would want to do, so for me, the Ouya is the perfect little solution.

You keep saying that you think it's funny that I have mentioned the Ouya so frequently as of late, but you're the only person who seems to think that. Once again the Ouya is simply my current preferred method of playing retro games on my HDTV. The reason is as simple as the set up. All there is to it is to turn it on, grab a controller and play its emulators that are all flawless. As such, when I buy a RetroN5, my review will carry a heavy comparison with the Ouya, especially in terms of emulator performance.

As for "features sell" argument, with all due respect, I'm a journalist with a background in marketing.

"Exclusive features sell" as a marketing campaign only works when you can directly compare one product against another. You bought an Xbox over the PS2. The Xbox's custom soundtracks was a selling feature one had that the other did not, and that's why you bought the Xbox.

In this case though, Hyperkin is smartly creating a market all to themselves, just as Nintendo did with the Wii. Sure, on paper, the Wii was competing against the Sony PS3 and Microsoft Xbox 360, but they crafted their marketing plan to segment themselves apart from a three way race that ultimately became a two way race and then Nintendo by themselves. This is how Nintendo was able to reach such success with what was largely inferior hardware compared to the compition, and why they are struggling now with the WiiU as it's in the same boat as the competition now.

When companies create their own market, they create a monopoly dominance in their niche, and that's what Hyperkin is doing with the RetroN5. It's not competing directly against Retro-Bit and their Super Retro Trio hardware clone, and it's not committing against existing microconsoles either. Instead, the RetroN5 will be a market all of it's own.

As such, Hyperkin is in a position to offer whatever features they want and dictate terms of the consumer as opposed to being trapped in fierce marketing and trying every little trick to win over customers, like Sony and Microsoft did in the PS2 vs Xbox marketing you spoke of. They could offer rom dumping, but they don't have to because that's not a system selling feature nor is it something that anyone else could even potentially offer.

With that said, do you see the err in what you are saying?


If this isn't a requirement I would like to gladly decline!

If you don't wish to understand where I'm coming from and the long history of this topic, then you cannot hide behind ignorance as an excuse for your attacks against me. I'm not here to defend Hyperkin. All I'm after is objective truths. As you say you're a newbie, it would do you well to read the RetroN5 is a thing apparently thread to get an understanding of how the digitalpress community has reached its feelings towards the RetroN5, and also how many of the less vocal members feel about it. Mine is a repeating voice, but it's just one of many.



Well if you decline, don't blindly assume stuff when the answers are there. :P He's an armchair reviewer that covers stuff in print and video so that's why you get all the commentary and discussion as he keeps up with stuff and will review things as he gets them.

Thanks. "armchair reviewer" huh? haha maybe I should use that.

[mercuryshadow09]

Okay man I'm over it, is it customary to beat dead horses here? Like I said, I'm the new guy, I've never been to this site before yesterday, the humor factor from the eyes of somebody who's never been here obviously went right over ever-bodies head, good day!

[Tanooki]

I assumed nothing, I simply pointed out the humor in his posts, is there something you don't like about me pointing out the humor in his posts, are you getting hostile? Go drink a cup of tea, take a dump and relax man, no need to go jumping on somebody for a simple post, I'm just here to enjoy my hobby like you and him, I'm not here to fight and make enemies!

Funny you should mention that. I do have a cup of tea and just got back from the other. :) Your humor isn't coming off as humor but more just snark or rude and I'm sure it wasn't intended, but the internet sucks as you just see a response in text and no visual (face or other) intent behind it.



Satoshi, go for it. :)

[mercuryshadow09]

Funny you should mention that. I do have a cup of tea and just got back from the other. :) Your humor isn't coming off as humor but more just snark or rude and I'm sure it wasn't intended, but the internet sucks as you just see a response in text and no visual (face or other) intent behind it.



Satoshi, go for it. :)

Like I said man I'm here for the same reason as you, to enjoy my hobby and hopefully make friends, not enemies, I did my time in the military and suffer enough from that!

[mercuryshadow09]

If you don't wish to understand where I'm coming from and the long history of this topic, then you cannot hide behind ignorance as an excuse for your attacks against me.



So now I attacked you? Guy, you are delusional if you think I attacked you, like I said, I SIMPLY THOUGHT IT WAS HUMOROUS! Are you not comprehending this?

[mercuryshadow09]

So it looks like you will be able to save to the RetroN5 or the cartridge!

http://i39.tinypic.com/21m6zpu.png

Here is a link to the video I got the screen cap from, Hyperkin posted it on their Facebook page today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac0-NJ6JGbo&feature=share

https://www.facebook.com/HyperkinGames

[Satoshi_Matrix]

*sigh*

First, there's a general rule against the practice of double posting. Don't do it. If you later have something to add before someone else replies, then edit your post rather than start a new one. It just ends up cluttering the thread.

Secondly, intentional or not, you're coming across as a jerk who is unwilling to fit in. Nobody thinks anything is funny. You're new, so learn. DP is a welcoming community and I personally welcome discussion and debate. I have no intention of fighting with you, but I will defend my points. Don't take that as a personal attack.

So please, let this be the end of it and let's get back on topic - the RetroN5. anything unrelated should not be posted.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

[double post created by database error]

[mercuryshadow09]

So it looks like you will be able to save to the RetroN5 or the cartridge!

http://i39.tinypic.com/21m6zpu.png

Here is a link to the video I got the screen cap from, Hyperkin posted it on their Facebook page today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac0-NJ6JGbo&feature=share

https://www.facebook.com/HyperkinGames

It also has an SD card slot in the back, I don't know if you can make out the SD card in the pic in the top right corner!

[mercuryshadow09]

*sigh*

First, there's a general rule against the practice of double posting. Don't do it.

Was that a demonstration? :ass:

[Leo_A]

The ignore list came in handy...

[Satoshi_Matrix]

obviously, digitalpress has been broken for most of the day. If I was able to on my own, I'd delete my duplicate post. That was not irony.

[IrishNinja]

yeah, i know that backing up cart data is prolly a niche thing, but this is kind've a niche product...that's a really interesting turn of events right there. the ability to basically use this as a Dexter for all my cart games - back em all up, never worry about having to change batteries etc - in addition to ninja-dogging my way through a tough bit with savestates, only to export said save & go right back to my OG hardware adds a lotta diversity/functions to this thing for the price. it's starting to seem a good deal even for my weird/subjective list of wants.


You know how many people have told me flash carts have no use? That they could just emulate for free? A lot. There have even been people who have told me that playing on the original hardware with original carts is useless when there are emulators. Its all subjective.

god, i know i just said shit's subjective but what a weird stance to have, much less you to come across very often, ugh. on a related note: nice to meet you man, ive bookmarked a few of your site's flashcarts for a while now, just waiting ot pay some bills & save up a bit!

[Tanooki]

No that was humorous unintended irony. :) Nice double post, even if the site caused it.


That video points out a great point most people don't realize is that you can lift and move save files between the system and a real game. It opens the door to a lot of fun little things. If a game has a solitary save and you do something stupid, you can go back and pull an old copy. If the game pisses you off or has some bug at X point, you can go dig up a save and load around that garbage and keep going. You can even grab a tweaked starting save file to have everyone cheaty buffed up like some game genie garbage would do. And of course as noted, works as a nice DexDrive substitute to save a lot of files into one spot so you can pull them as needed. Also I said it before, if you have a game with a broken battery, save/load states makes it playable again too.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Looks like we're back now.

In my experience both online, in game stores and through my journalism, I've come to realize there are multiple schools of thought when it comes to retro gaming, and I think it's important to note that they are all valid, just for different people.


Original hardware only crowd:

Games need to be played on the original hardware with original controllers using a CRT, for the "authentic" experience. Nothing less than that is acceptable.

Original hardware only crowd + flashcarts crowd

A variation of the original hardware only, they insist games still be played on the original hardware, but are willing to use flashcarts so long as they work 1:1 with the original carts.

Clone crowd:
They are okay with clones, and might even seek them out, and argue its the same thing since they are still playing their original carts.

Emulation crowd:

They believe that if a game can be emulated, then there are all kinds of advantages. Access to savestates, on the fly button remapping, video filters, and access to free games.

Pay-for-emulation crowd:

Are completely fine with Virtual Console/XBLA/PSN ports of older games. Argue it eliminates the need for a retro console since they could just play their old games on the system they use to play their new games.

Remakes only:

Refuse to play any game made before a certain threshold, usually citing ugly graphics or outdated gameplay. Phrase DuckTales Remastered, refuse to play DuckTales NES.

There are probably more, but these are the general groups I've come across. Personally I belong to many of these to some degree and understand every angle. But no matter what, there will be some people who are squarely in one of the categories and will refuse to see it from the others. As StoneAgeGamer pointed out, some people will never understand the point of flashcarts, some will reject the Virtual Console, others say owning physical copies of games is pointless, and there will be both defenders and opponents of the RetroN5 and devices like it.

No matter what happens, nobody will agree what's the best way to preserve the hobby.

[IrishNinja]

^don't forget those of us who want OG hardware, but only RGB over an upscaler, on an HDTV (plasmas, hopefully low latency) and always clip the hangtabs off our sega clamshells.

we're not a large crowd, but we're a merry lot.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

So.....

Original Hardware + extremely expensive Upscalers on HDTVs crowd

I guess I hadn't considered that.

[slobu]

yeah, i know that backing up cart data is prolly a niche thing, but this is kind've a niche product...that's a really interesting turn of events right there. the ability to basically use this as a Dexter for all my cart games - back em all up, never worry about having to change batteries etc - in addition to ninja-dogging my way through a tough bit with savestates, only to export said save & go right back to my OG hardware adds a lotta diversity/functions to this thing for the price. it's starting to seem a good deal even for my weird/subjective list of wants.



god, i know i just said shit's subjective but what a weird stance to have, much less you to come across very often, ugh. on a related note: nice to meet you man, ive bookmarked a few of your site's flashcarts for a while now, just waiting ot pay some bills & save up a bit!

I bought a Kazoo NES dumper and a Retrode and have most of my carts in storage relatively safe from wear. The Retron 3 barely supported the PowerPaks and EverDrive. My niche market is being smart enough to back your shizz up and lazy enough to not want 5 systems and 50 carts lying around. I hope the Retron 5 boys make flash carts a priority.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

You must not have read through this thread. Given that the RetroN5 reads carts through rom headers and launches games by dumping them to rom, it's unlikely any flashcart for any of the systems supported will work with the RetroN5.

This goes back to what I was saying before. If your only reason for buying a RetroN5 is to play flashcarts, why don't you instead buy an Ouya? The Ouya is the same price, will run the same games via the same emulators and have the same kinds of features like allowing users to use OEM controllers, and the Ouya also does a whole bunch of other things as well, like run more advanced systems (N64, PS1, DS, PSP, etc) as well as media functionality and of course Ouya's own lineup of games.

[slobu]

yeah, i know that backing up cart data is prolly a niche thing, but this is kind've a niche product...that's a really interesting turn of events right there. the ability to basically use this as a Dexter for all my cart games - back em all up, never worry about having to change batteries etc - in addition to ninja-dogging my way through a tough bit with savestates, only to export said save & go right back to my OG hardware adds a lotta diversity/functions to this thing for the price. it's starting to seem a good deal even for my weird/subjective list of wants.



god, i know i just said shit's subjective but what a weird stance to have, much less you to come across very often, ugh. on a related note: nice to meet you man, ive bookmarked a few of your site's flashcarts for a while now, just waiting ot pay some bills & save up a bit!

I bought a Kazoo NES dumper and a Retrode and have most of my carts in storage relatively safe from wear. The Retron 3 barely supported the PowerPaks and EverDrive. My niche market is being smart enough to back your shizz up and lazy enough to not want 5 systems and 50 carts lying around. I hope the Retron 5 boys make flash carts a priority.

[mercuryshadow09]

I bought a Kazoo NES dumper and a Retrode and have most of my carts in storage relatively safe from wear. The Retron 3 barely supported the PowerPaks and EverDrive. My niche market is being smart enough to back your shizz up and lazy enough to not want 5 systems and 50 carts lying around. I hope the Retron 5 boys make flash carts a priority.

Better be careful here, they will slice you up and down for double posting!

[TheChristoph]

I'm not exactly a pillar of the community here but man, there are some people in this thread that are in serious danger of completely vanishing up their own asses.

[JSoup]

I'm not exactly a pillar of the community here but man, there are some people in this thread that are in serious danger of completely vanishing up their own asses.

Welcome to Digital Press.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

We need some serious moderation in this thread. The forums were broken for several days resulting in several unintentional double posts, and mercuryshadow09 needs to be taken aside and told to cool it with all the snarky remarks. We're a nice community; there's no call for you being such a jerk.

[Tanooki]

Yeah there needs to be I second that. I feel like I'm at another site I visit where snarky digs get ignored depending on who is doing it to other members which just spits in the face of community.

[Drclaw411]

Hyperkin has announced that there will not be enough retron 5 units produced to meet day one demand.

http://www.the-gamers-lounge.com/ryan-johnson/2014/1/25/retron5-interview-with-paul-leung-from-hyperkin

They also mention that it will not be compatible with other Bluetooth controllers, but that the system can function as it's own multitap.

[Akito01]

Hyperkin has announced that there will not be enough retron 5 units produced to meet day one demand.

http://www.the-gamers-lounge.com/ryan-johnson/2014/1/25/retron5-interview-with-paul-leung-from-hyperkin

They also mention that it will not be compatible with other Bluetooth controllers, but that the system can function as it's own multitap.

Hmm, I hate to say it, but I might jump to getting an Ouya at this point. What is the general consensus on it as an emulation machine? I'll be able to use a DualShock 3 with it, right?

[Tanooki]

I've heard it is super solid for emulation as people ported over the best or made super solid stuff, either way it's good, and yes you can use whatever controller you want including PS3.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Hmm, I hate to say it, but I might jump to getting an Ouya at this point. What is the general consensus on it as an emulation machine? I'll be able to use a DualShock 3 with it, right?

I'm really trying to stay positive on the RetroN5, but man, some of these recent reveals are astonishingly stupid.

Anyway yes, the Ouya makes an excellent retro gaming emulation machine. The .emu emulators all support pretty much any USB or bluetooth controller.
the .emus are:
NES/Famicom
SNES/SFC
Master System/Genesis/Sega CD
C64
Neo Geo
NeoGeo Pocket Color
GameBoy/GameBoy Color
GameBoy Advance

All you need to do is plug in the controller you want, create a controller profile (you can name it whatever you want) and then the button mappings you want. It's a good idea to map a Menu button to one of the controls so you can switch roms, get access to savestates, and exit the emulator if needbe.

Personally I use an SNES to USB adapter and use an OEM SNES controller to play pretty much everything listed above.

There's other emulators too for PS1 and N64 and such, but they aren't compatible with everything as of right now.

The thing about the Ouya is that don't discard/package away the default controller it comes with, as you'll need it to navigate menus and such from time to time as some software won't even recognize other controllers for system menu navigation.

I love the Ouya for emulation.

[treismac]

... I might jump to getting an Ouya at this point. What is the general consensus on it as an emulation machine?


I love the Ouya for emulation.

Yeah, man. The Ouya simply rocks for emulation. Three other notable systems, by the way, that the Ouya emulates that Satoshi left off his list above are the Atari 2600, Turbografx-16 (w/ CD game support), and MAME. My only gripe with the Ouya [apart from a weak wifi antenna and "eh" controller] is that it doesn't have AV outputs.

[Drclaw411]

Hyperkin Paul works in a completely different department, so he does not have access to the talking Amazon robots. All RetroN 5 units sold on Amazon will be fulfilled.
Like · 4 hours ago


That is from hyperkin's facebook page. It still doesn't specify if the orders will be fulfilled day one, but it's probably the best we are going to get.

[Cryog]

New video ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfjCBf7PSM0

[PizzaKat]

Looks good, PAL games is a huge plus. Though I'd like to see some reviews before I buy it.

[NESter]

Looks like we're back now.

In my experience both online, in game stores and through my journalism, I've come to realize there are multiple schools of thought when it comes to retro gaming, and I think it's important to note that they are all valid, just for different people.


Original hardware only crowd:

Games need to be played on the original hardware with original controllers using a CRT, for the "authentic" experience. Nothing less than that is acceptable.

Original hardware only crowd + flashcarts crowd

A variation of the original hardware only, they insist games still be played on the original hardware, but are willing to use flashcarts so long as they work 1:1 with the original carts.

Clone crowd:
They are okay with clones, and might even seek them out, and argue its the same thing since they are still playing their original carts.

Emulation crowd:

They believe that if a game can be emulated, then there are all kinds of advantages. Access to savestates, on the fly button remapping, video filters, and access to free games.

Pay-for-emulation crowd:

Are completely fine with Virtual Console/XBLA/PSN ports of older games. Argue it eliminates the need for a retro console since they could just play their old games on the system they use to play their new games.

Remakes only:

Refuse to play any game made before a certain threshold, usually citing ugly graphics or outdated gameplay. Phrase DuckTales Remastered, refuse to play DuckTales NES.

There are probably more, but these are the general groups I've come across. Personally I belong to many of these to some degree and understand every angle. But no matter what, there will be some people who are squarely in one of the categories and will refuse to see it from the others. As StoneAgeGamer pointed out, some people will never understand the point of flashcarts, some will reject the Virtual Console, others say owning physical copies of games is pointless, and there will be both defenders and opponents of the RetroN5 and devices like it.

No matter what happens, nobody will agree what's the best way to preserve the hobby.

There's yet even a third category, and one that Retron 5 fulfils quite nicely, I hope:

The Emulation + Original Cartridges Only Crowd

All throughout the thread people have been asking "why not just emulation w/PC" if all you're worried about is picture quality on an HDTV? To that I answer: ROM guilt. I had been playing NES ROMs for years while slowly building a collection of actual NES cartidges. Never did I feel conflicted about spending my cash on physical copies of games I wanted when I could easily just download any game I wanted until I bought an NES Powerpak. Suddenly I could play virtually any NES game on a real NES, all one one cartridge, and suddenly I had no need to further my collection. This, to be honest, was a total drag. Not only did I begin to feel actual guilt over having ROMs on my Powerpak of games I did not own, but in one fell swoop the fun of collecting old 8-bit games had been stolen by the convenience of being able to have virtually the entire NES library on a single cart.

My point is not to rail against the Powerpak: I still love it for its ability to play unreleased, pirate, and foreign games I might not otherwise be able to play on an actual NES. But it wasn't until I began using it to play games I always intended to add to my collection, but never did, that I realized there's a value in actually owning the games I play. Subsequent delves into emulation left the same bad feeling in my mouth; I discovered that I didn't want to trade collection for convenience. Conversely, I have no (good) CRT TVs and I'm frankly disgusted at the way the actual NES looks on my 47" LG.

Enter the Retron 5. With it's HDMI output I get the crisp, pixel-perfect image quality I want without feeling like a dirty rotten pirate. For me it's a win-win situation. In fact, I'd wager that most of the people looking forward to this thing are in the same boat as me. Otherwise, why not just get an Ouya?

[treismac]

Original Hardware vs. Emulation

I don't see it as an either/or situation. I collect and love to play cartridges on their original systems, but I also enjoy having a vast library of roms conveniently at my disposal through emulation. Apart from convenience, the different bells and whistles (save states, filters, cheats, etc.) are one of the reasons I enjoy the option of emulation, and I hope that Hyperkin keeps updating the RetroN5 with plenty of extra goodies beyond purely functional/compatibility firmware updates.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

There's yet even a third category, and one that Retron 5 fulfils quite nicely, I hope:

The Emulation + Original Cartridges Only Crowd


That's very true, but I really wonder how successful Hyperkin will be with that. I mean, that niche is an incredibly small one in the retro gaming community. For the RetroN5 to have any sort of success at all, it'll need to open that niche up by a factor of 50.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but even I've got the lingering question in the back of my head of "does the RetroN5 even make sense?" It's emulation that requires physical hardware to dump software. ....Or you could just use an emulator. Doesn't that make far more sense? It's not like with the RetroN5, sticking with the original carts yields the "authentic experience". You're still emulating, and have access to all the wonders of emulation.

Since I already own an Ouya, I can already do everything that the RetorN5 will be able to do and run dozens other systems as well, plus the Ouya's multimedia features, plus the hundreds of Ouya built games, many of which are quite good.

What do I gain by buying a RetorN5? being able to play my carts on yet another console? Then being able to sell my original NES/Famicom/SNES/Genesis/GBA hardware? I'm not going to do that, because that would be trading authentic hardware for emulation.

The Ouya simply makes more logical and economical sense than the RetorN5. The only powerful force the RetorN5 has going for it is the bond most retro gamers feel with their rare carts they bought when their hard-earned cash. But I truly feel like that's more of a mental disorder than it is something that is real and tangible. Once you get over the fact that an external harddrive is the physical cartridge the Ouya uses that contains the exact same game, the original cart sort of loses its lofty importance.

For now, I continue to straddle the line between physical hardware and pure emulation. I have my SNES and Famicom and other systems hooked up alongside my Ouya, but I can easily see myself converting to only the Ouya someday. It's really all that I need or want.

I'm going to buy a RetorN5 to review it, but as you can tell from the content I just wrote, I'm very conflicted as to its very purpose.

[Leo_A]

Don't forget what you argued about with me a while back. You believe that the casual buyer is going to represent a significant bulk of their sales and that people like ourselves are the minority for their future customers.

To the average guy wanting a nostalgia kick, they're not going to particularly care how playing their old cartridges is achieved. There's no significance for most of this segment in if it's emulation or hardware based. A good percentage probably couldn't even tell you just what emulation even is.

That it's playing original cartridges is what's going to matter. Not what's going on inside.


I'm very conflicted as to its very purpose.

I think that's why it's so key that it's as multipurpose as possible (As long as they don't get so busy adding features that the basic functionality suffers for it).

The more it's capable of, the wider its appeal will be. Someone might want it to save space, someone might want it for its upscaling capabilities, someone might want it to easily expand their horizons to import gaming for some of their favorite consoles, etc. Heck, it will probably sell to a few people just for its ability to extract and later restore original cartridge saves for when they replace old batteries.

That's the reason why I think it's unfortunate that it won't be able to load roms off SD card although I bet that's rectified down the road with a revision in the coming years. It's a significant feature that many will find appealing and it would've drawn people in and sealed the deal for others that were on the fence about purchasing this.

The Ouya I presume takes some extra effort to get going where as this will be plug and play and with extra bells and whistles like original controller ports built in. A lot of people with a PC setup probably wonder why anyone would waste their money buying an Ouya for emulation. But that's the glory of it that it can be used for that functionality if someone wants it for that.

That's why the more the Retron 5 is capable of, the more likely it will appeal to the classic gamer. Staying away from a rigidly and narrowly defined vision for this product is how they're going to succeed if they do. What you or I are buying this for doesn't necessarily reflect what the next person is after.

[treismac]

... I'm very conflicted as to its very purpose.

I thought that the big selling point for the RetroN5, for hardcore and casual alike, was HDMI output- the whole "Play your old cartridges on your new tv" angle. It sure ain't the ability to play Famicom cartridges that's going to motivate casual gamers to purchase the clone.



...it's so key that it's as multipurpose as possible (As long as they don't get so busy adding features that the basic functionality suffers for it).

The more it's capable of, the wider its appeal will be...

That's the reason why I think it's unfortunate that it won't be able to load roms off SD card although I bet that's rectified down the road with a revision in the coming years. It's a significant feature that many will find appealing and it would've drawn people in and sealed the deal for others that were on the edge about purchasing this.

Yes, yes, and YES. It is the options/extras/features/etc. or the lack thereof that will make this system a purchase or not and not having THE ability to play roms on an Android based emulator is, to me, ridiculous. Being able to pop in different cartridges just isn't enough for someone like me who already has all of the the original systems that the RetroN5 emulates. I need more. The different controller ports are the only thing, as far as I'm concerned, that the RetroN5 has over the Ouya.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Don't forget what you argued about with me a while back. You believe that the casual buyer is going to represent a significant bulk of their sales and that people like ourselves are the minority for their future customers.

Yes, I did indeed say that, but your confusing the meaning behind that statement. I believe that casual insteret will make up the bulk of the sales Hyperkin gets with the RetroN5, but I'm not sure that total amount will seriously compete with the sales of the Ouya in the same crowd of mostly casual gamers.



To the average guy wanting a nostalgia kick, they're not going to particularly care how playing their old cartridges is achieved. There's no significance for most of this segment in if it's emulation or hardware based. A good percentage probably couldn't even tell you just what emulation even is. That it's playing original cartridges is what's going to matter. Not what's going on inside.

Yup, no argument there.



I think that's why it's so key that it's as multipurpose as possible (As long as they don't get so busy adding features that the basic functionality suffers for it).

The more it's capable of, the wider its appeal will be. Someone might want it to save space, someone might want it for its upscaling capabilities, someone might want it to easily expand their horizons to import gaming for some of their favorite consoles, etc. Heck, it will probably sell to a few people just for its ability to extract and later restore original cartridge saves for when they replace old batteries.

I think you're giving Hyperkin too much credit there. This are the kinds of side effects the Retorn5 will have, but probably won't be promoted or realized by the general public.

Well, in the interview posted in the previous thread page or so, the Hyperkin rep said that the RetorN5 in contrast to the Ouya and other devices will be narrow mindedly focused on doing only a couple things without any media center stuff. It'll pretty much just be like the RetorN3, but with a UI.



That's the reason why I think it's unfortunate that it won't be able to load roms off SD card although I bet that's rectified down the road with a revision in the coming years. It's a significant feature that many will find appealing and it would've drawn people in and sealed the deal for others that were on the fence about purchasing this.

My gut feeling is that Hyperkin isn't doing that because they dont want to be involved in a legal mess with anyone, namely Nintendo who has a history of going after small companies for the littlest things. They've been responsible for shutting down rom sites when Sony, Microsoft, Sega, Atari etc have not cared to bother to do so.

I don't think direct rom loading from an SD card will ever happen. It's possible, but I don't think its very likely. That sort of defeats the purpose their going for with the whole carts are required thing.





The Ouya I presume takes some extra effort to get going where as this will be plug and play and with extra bells and whistles like original controller ports built in. A lot of people with a PC setup probably wonder why anyone would waste their money buying an Ouya for emulation. But that's the glory of it that it can be used for that functionality if someone wants it for that.

That's why the more the Retron 5 is capable of, the more likely it will appeal to the classic gamer. Staying away from a rigidly and narrowly defined vision for this product is how they're going to succeed if they do. What you or I are buying this for doesn't necessarily reflect what the next person is after.

Couple of points, let me address them in the order you brought them up.

Ouya emulator set up is pretty damn streightforward. You go on the Ouya Discover store. Look for the category "Retro". In that, there are a bunch of emulators, like NES.emu. You click download, then it downloads. Then it tells you to add your own roms which it does not provide. I suppose this might be a little tricky if you don't know how to use a computer at all, but it's not hard at all if you have a basic understanding. You go online to some site, download the roms you want, and then you can either hook the Ouya up to your pc and trasfer the roms to the Ouya as a mass storage device, FTP the files to the Ouya, or put them on a USB thumbstick and then put that in the Ouya. However you choose to do it, once its done it's easy to access and requires no lenghty up time.

To those who would wonder why buy an Ouya for emulation, I would say two things: use of a controller, and HDTV support. I don't want to emulate on a small computer monitor using a keyboard.


Now about that Hyperkin should extend their reach [to the stars above][&̶ ̶d̶e̶n̶o̶u̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶v̶i̶l̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶v̶e̶] This is Hyperkin we're talking about. They have a notoriously bad track record in case you haven't noticed. They're the company that have made revisions that introduce new problems after they fix old ones, such as the SNES side of many of their clones being mono only, have inferior NOACs to the ones that came before, unexplained dead controller ports developing suddenly, shotty soldering, awful customer service, the list goes on and on.

I for one do not want Hyperkin to get too ambitious. In fact I think it'll be a miracle of the RetorN5 will manage to launch without major issues as it is already. Yeah, it apparently was spotted by someone at QA, but the reason the RetroN5 isn't already out is because someone discovered the cartridge ports of early units didn't in fact have all their pin connectors. Only Hyperkin could manage a blunder like that.




I thought that the big selling point for the RetroN5, for hardcore and casual alike, was HDMI output- the whole "Play your old cartridges on your new tv" angle. It sure ain't the ability to play Famicom cartridges that's going to motivate casual gamers to purchase the clone.

But that's true of the Ouya or even the WiiU. That alone won't cut it. What I meant was that I'm conflicted as to the purpose of the RetroN5 when there are better, cheaper alternatives. Maybe the RetroN5 is just going to end up being the super casual alternative tot he Ouya, for those who are so casual as to not know even how to download a rom. Pretty much like a good number of people who buy games on the Wii/WiiU Virtual Console.





Yes, yes, and YES. It is the options/extras/features/etc. or the lack thereof that will make this system a purchase or not and not having THE ability to play roms on an Android based emulator is, to me, ridiculous. Being able to pop in different cartridges just isn't enough for someone like me who already has all of the the original systems that the RetroN5 emulates. I need more. The different controller ports are the only thing, as far as I'm concerned, that the RetroN5 has over the Ouya.

But the Ouya is open source, so it can be used with ANY usb controller or controller adapter, or any bluetooth controller. That literally means with the Ouya's various emulators you can use any controller you want with any emulator you want.

_____ to USB adapters are cheap, and bountiful. Generally speaking, I use an OEM SNES controller to play just about any of the ouya emulators - NES, SNES, Genesis, Master System, GB/GBC, GBA, DS, PSP, C64, PS1, and so on and so on. Or if I need thumbsticks, the choices again are quite limitless from a PS3 controller either wired or bluetooth or anu number of PC controllers. not to mention of course the stock Ouya controller which isn't nearly as bad as as the horror stories of the Ouya's launch would have you believe.

I'm not some giant champion of the Ouya, I think the system has its share of faults and growing pains but I also think that it's a retro gamers dream system as its an emulation powerhouse, plus does other things like run the absolutely amazing Xbox Media Center.

Given your attitudes in your previous posts, I would strongly recommend you consider an Ouya over the RetroN5. It sounds like you're the kind of person who would make the most of the advantages it has over whatever Hyperkin decides to do - or not.

The $99 Ouya has 8GB internal memory, which alone is enough to house thousands of retro games without even touching any of the Ouya's own games and apps.

[Leo_A]

The Ouya sounds intriguing. There was too much work with things like Xbox and Wii homebrew for my taste. I like something where I just download the program and insert my own roms and that's it. No installing homebrew hacks, setting up things to FTP stuff over, worrying about Nintendo firmware updates like Wii homebrew channel fans once did, etc.

The Ouya sounds nice, simple, and straight forward with no fuss or hassle at all. It's one reason why my MP3 players aren't Apple products. I plug it in via USB, it's seen as a mass storage device, and I copy my files over to the appropriate folder and that's it. No iTunes fuss.


Yes, I did indeed say that, but your confusing the meaning behind that statement. I believe that casual insteret will make up the bulk of the sales Hyperkin gets with the RetroN5, but I'm not sure that total amount will seriously compete with the sales of the Ouya in the same crowd of mostly casual gamers.


Yeah, but you sounded concerned that the fact that it's emulation will scare people away.

Casuals are never going to buy an Ouya, have never even heard of it, don't care about the technical details, and want something that's plug and play. When they go looking for something to revisit some childhood favorites on cartridge, the Retron 5's competition largely will be used original hardware or other clones.

That's why, even though I'm told I'm wrong, why I think they can't count on this segment. Those people shopping around aren't interested in the details and features beyond if it plays the games that they have in mind. And when they see something cheaper like the Super Retro Trio, Hyperkin is going to be facing a tough sell since they're pushing a premium priced product where clones are concerned.



I think you're giving Hyperkin too much credit there. This are the kinds of side effects the Retorn5 will have, but probably won't be promoted or realized by the general public.


I wasn't talking about the casuals though. The wide variety of specialized uses such as someone buying this to specifically easily play PAL Super Nintendo games are reasons why it's going to appeal to the crowd at a place like here. Or just plain old curiosity which appears to be the motivating factor for both of us more than anything.

If the Ouya is a competitor at all, it's for this niche. The dedicated classic gamer looking for a reasonable option to enjoy their favorites on their modern living room tv just like the old days without dealing with tv issues that does their homework to investigate their range of options.



I don't think direct rom loading from an SD card will ever happen. It's possible, but I don't think its very likely. That sort of defeats the purpose their going for with the whole carts are required thing.

It's legally not an issue. I don't think that we have any precedent with a clone with the ability to load Nintendo roms to really gauge if Nintendo is going to be the bully and bury them or not with an unwinnable case that Hyperkin can't afford to go through with despite being in the right. They don't seem to mind clones as they are. The only ones that have drawn a look from Nintendo's lawyers are those that have infringed on Nintendo trademarks and copyrights that included Nintendo software.

Meanwhile, we have AtGames that's getting by just fine with that capability on Genesis clones. If there was any issue of litigation over something that would be perceived as enabling piracy, they'd be running the risk of getting hassled by publishers like Activision and Electronic Arts since it wouldn't just be the platform holder with a case.

The Super Nintendo outside the name is just as much yours and mine today as it is Nintendo's. It's public domain today since all the patent protection has expired and it contains no onboard copyrighted code that's necessary for it to function that remains protected.


Ouya emulator set up is pretty damn streightforward. You go on the Ouya Discover store. Look for the category "Retro". In that, there are a bunch of emulators, like NES.emu. You click download, then it downloads. Then it tells you to add your own roms which it does not provide.

That's already several more steps and more research than the average Joe is going to want to go through. The Retron 5 just needs its power supply plugged in, a HDMI connection, tune the tv to the correct input, and you're setup as soon as the battery in the controller is charged via USB.

Those buying an Ouya for emulation largely aren't going to be the casual crowd that we're told by people like StoneAgeGamer are going to represent the bulk of Hyperkin's business with the Retron 5. That group largely will never hear about the Ouya and if they ever did research things, they're going to find a multitude of options.

But cheap, new, readily available hardware that plays your original cartridges on the other hand, the pool of competitors is much smaller.


This is Hyperkin we're talking about.

I've been taking the high road. My statements are under the assumption that they're going to do a halfway decent job of delivering.

I've expressed a ton of skepticism about this product here in the past. It's plainly evident that not only are the cards stacked against it from the get go but that the company doesn't have a reputation at all for quality. So don't get me wrong, I'm expecting this to be a disappointment in the end.

What the Retron 5 is most likely of accomplishing is being the first step towards a new wave of clones that potentially will reproduce the systems they're modeling to a much greater degree than we've grown accustomed in the past with NOAC's and such that are too expensive to redesign and improve.

Software based means that clone manufacturers have something to work with to reasonably tackle issues with future revisions. So I see this more as a stepping stone rather than something that's likely to take up a long term presence in our living rooms and game rooms.

[NESter]

That's very true, but I really wonder how successful Hyperkin will be with that. I mean, that niche is an incredibly small one in the retro gaming community. For the RetroN5 to have any sort of success at all, it'll need to open that niche up by a factor of 50.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but even I've got the lingering question in the back of my head of "does the RetroN5 even make sense?" It's emulation that requires physical hardware to dump software. ....Or you could just use an emulator. Doesn't that make far more sense? It's not like with the RetroN5, sticking with the original carts yields the "authentic experience". You're still emulating, and have access to all the wonders of emulation.


I know it sounds incredibly illogical, but to me, there is something missing in the emulation experience. For years I would play NES games almost exclusively with Nestopia or FCEUX, but I suddenly became very nostalgic for the experience of using actual cartridges with original, non-USB controllers. Same with SNES and Genesis. So I look forward to have a multi-console-in-1 solution that allows me to have the authentic, physical experience, with an image clarity suitable for HDTV, even if the sound ends up being a bit off.

[PizzaKat]

Huh, suddenly the Ouya looks very tempting to buy as well. Though I don't mind playing games at my desk I would just buy a NES USB controller or something similar for older titles

[Satoshi_Matrix]

The Ouya sounds intriguing. There was too much work with things like Xbox and Wii homebrew for my taste. I like something where I just download the program and insert my own roms and that's it. No installing homebrew hacks, setting up things to FTP stuff over, worrying about Nintendo firmware updates like Wii homebrew channel fans once did, etc.

The Ouya sounds nice, simple, and straight forward with no fuss or hassle at all. It's one reason why my MP3 players aren't Apple products. I plug it in via USB, it's seen as a mass storage device, and I copy my files over to the appropriate folder and that's it. No iTunes fuss.

That's exactly what drew me into the Ouya. It's one button to turn it on, the emulators are simple, sleek, easy to use and set up, and the Ouya is also much more powerful than a modded original Xbox or Wii. Plus, if you want to expand the storage capacity, you have any number of options from an external harddrive, large capacity SD card, or even stream from a pc source if you're crafty. Also, the entire console is the size of a rubix cube, so it can be introduced into any entertainment cabinet without having to rearrange everything for another giant console.

If you buy an Ouya, I suggest you also buy yourself a USB hub, as the Ouya stupidly only has a single USB port. You'll want at least two so you can have one for expansion storage and one for an optional controller of your choosing like an SNES or PS3 or USB arcade stick or whatever else you want. USB keyboard even. Most Ouya programs will work with just about anything (although the main UI is finicky about accepting input from some USB devices)



Casuals are never going to buy an Ouya, have never even heard of it, don't care about the technical details, and want something that's plug and play. When they go looking for something to revisit some childhood favorites on cartridge, the Retron 5's competition largely will be used original hardware or other clones.

That's why, even though I'm told I'm wrong, why I think they can't count on this segment. Those people shopping around aren't interested in the details and features beyond if it plays the games that they have in mind. And when they see something cheaper like the Super Retro Trio, Hyperkin is going to be facing a tough sell since they're pushing a premium priced product where clones are concerned.


I think you're quite mistaken about that. Currently, The Ouya is the #2 most popular result in Video Game Console popularity search on Amazon.ca, ahead of the Xbox One and only behind the PS4. The Ouya is extremely successful in the causal gamer market. Even my cousin who doesn't play video games very much owns an Ouya. The last console she bought was a Wii in 2007.

In fact I kind of feel like a hipster that I like the Ouya as much as I do, and a lot of games just don't really appeal to me, like Bombsquad and Towerfall. I instead like the super hardcore shooters and platformers on Ouya. One of the reasons I've had to speak up in defense of the Ouya is because it's the hardcore gamers that quickly dismissed it, not casuals. You're completely wrong about the Ouya not appealing to casual gamers I'm afraid.

I suppose on a super casual level the RetroN5 will be slightly more appealing to someone who doesn't even want to bother setting up an account and downloading things from the discover store, but I also don't see that kind of gamer spending $99 on the RetroN5 either when other clone systems cost half as much.




I've been taking the high road. My statements are under the assumption that they're going to do a halfway decent job of delivering.

I've expressed a ton of skepticism about this product here in the past. It's plainly evident that not only are the cards stacked against it from the get go but that the company doesn't have a reputation at all for quality. So don't get me wrong, I'm expecting this to be a disappointment in the end.

What the Retron 5 is most likely of accomplishing is being the first step towards a new wave of clones that potentially will reproduce the systems they're modeling to a much greater degree than we've grown accustomed in the past with NOAC's and such that are too expensive to redesign and improve.

Software based means that clone manufacturers have something to work with to reasonably tackle issues with future revisions. So I see this more as a stepping stone rather than something that's likely to take up a long term presence in our living rooms and game rooms.

I'm glad you said this, because this is exactly how I feel. I'm skeptical that Hyperkin will actually deliver. The more promises they make, the more promises they'll break when their lofty ideals don't
bear fruit. Probably Retro-Bit will come out later and improve on the RetroN5 concept with a superior product...just as they have historically.

However, I'm not saying one should prejudge the RetroN5. Just that you should remain nutrual towards it, without letting hype build you up only for you to come crashing down when it's actually released.



I know it sounds incredibly illogical, but to me, there is something missing in the emulation experience. For years I would play NES games almost exclusively with Nestopia or FCEUX, but I suddenly became very nostalgic for the experience of using actual cartridges with original, non-USB controllers. Same with SNES and Genesis. So I look forward to have a multi-console-in-1 solution that allows me to have the authentic, physical experience, with an image clarity suitable for HDTV, even if the sound ends up being a bit off.

I know how you feel because I've felt the same way, and I'm sure many others who read your post will also feel the same way too. But I honestly think its more of an emotional/psychological 'loss' than it is a tangible loss. The most important details are that you use a comfortable controller and play on a tv. The feeling is fleeting though, so if you just ignore it for a while, you'll eventually get used to it and like me, come to even prefer it.

Nostalgia is a powerful force, making you remember things that sucked as happy warm memories. CRT scanlines, overscan, fuzzy video, mono sound, not being able to save where you want, cartridges glitching,games that require you to do things that hurt your hands (the famous nes thumb anyone?) or just how about those unforgiving bosses or late levels that pose such a difficulty spike its absurd? There is a lot to like about retro gaming, but there's a lot to hate about it too. For all crap modern games put us through, in many ways today's games fix these problems.




Huh, suddenly the Ouya looks very tempting to buy as well. Though I don't mind playing games at my desk I would just buy a NES USB controller or something similar for older titles

I think the Ouya is really misunderstood. Early hype backers were saying stuff like "So when is Skyrim going to be ported?" and the 'non believers' were saying things like "I don't want a console to play angry birds on". In either extreme, both were and are absolutely wrong.

The Ouya is about bringing indie developed games into the living room. Sometimes this means great things, sometimes this means awful things. Emulation is there too, bringing tens of thousands of games to the system that way.


One thing I would suggest is that if you want a USB NES or SNES controller, buy an SNES to USB adapter, not a dedicated USB controller. Those third party USB controllers always suck compared to the real OEM controllers.

[Leo_A]

TI think you're quite mistaken about that. Currently, The Ouya is the #2 most popular result in Video Game Console popularity search on Amazon.ca, ahead of the Xbox One and only behind the PS4.

Pretty convincing evidence I'll admit. It would appear that it's not nearly as obscure to the general public as I was thinking it was.

How do you pronounce this thing, anyways?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Like "Booya" without the B. The O is a long o, like in a stereotypical impressed crowd going "Oooo, Ahhhhh".

"Ooooo Yeah"

[PizzaKat]

Think of the Kool AId Man bursting out of a wall. "Oh ya" cept Oh is pronounced ewww or Ooooo

[kainemaxwell]

So this or an Ouya?

[treismac]

I thought that the big selling point for the RetroN5, for hardcore and casual alike, was HDMI output- the whole "Play your old cartridges on your new tv" angle.


But that's true of the Ouya or even the WiiU.

No it isn't. Read closer. ;)



Given your attitudes in your previous posts, I would strongly recommend you consider an Ouya over the RetroN5. It sounds like you're the kind of person who would make the most of the advantages it has over whatever Hyperkin decides to do - or not.

You're preaching to the choir, Satoshi. I own one and I agree with you that the Ouya is an emulation dream come true (apart from no AV output, of course). Once I read that emulators for the TG-16 & C64 were available for the Ouya, the decision to buy one was cinched. Between my Ouya, soft modded Wii, and PC all of my emulation needs are, more or less, met. I just think it would be awesome to have a clone that plays both cartridges and roms, and I'm not sure as to how Hyperkin's neck would be on the legal chopping block if it could. Clones already play old Nintendo cartridges and the Ouya plays roms and the Big N's lawyers haven't sued (that I know of) any clone manufacturer or Ouya into oblivion yet.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

So this or an Ouya?

That is the golden question isn't it?

On paper, the Ouya outclasses the RetroN5 across the board. Far more powerful machine capable of doing far more and also without spending another additional dime on games. Open source, supported by many developers, non native android apps easily sideloadable, and the size of a rubix cube. Also, the RetorN5 is rumored to be 720p vs 1080p


On the other hand, the RetroN5 is cooler in concept and I have to admit I like the idea of a machine that is capable of playing my retro games on an HDTV and produce HD visuals. I'm just not thrilled that it does so by dumping the carts to roms and then just loading those, essentially making it just a larger more convoluted Ouya. Also, according the OP who [removed by request] everything negative he had to say, it takes upwards of five minutes to dump an 8MB GBA game to make it playable on the RetroN5. If that needs to be done every friggin time, then the Ouya has a massive advantage right there.

Ultimately though, I can't say right now that the Ouya is better than the RetroN5, as I only have what I've been told to go on and haven't yet been able to determine for myself if the RetroN5 is any good or not. All I know is what has been leaked, and given that, the Ouya looks like the better of the two.





You're preaching to the choir, Satoshi. I own one and I agree with you that the Ouya is an emulation dream come true (apart from no AV output, of course). Once I read that emulators for the TG-16 & C64 were available for the Ouya, the decision to buy one was cinched. Between my Ouya, soft modded Wii, and PC all of my emulation needs are, more or less, met. I just think it would be awesome to have a clone that plays both cartridges and roms, and I'm not sure as to how Hyperkin's neck would be on the legal chopping block if it could. Clones already play old Nintendo cartridges and the Ouya plays roms and the Big N's lawyers haven't sued (that I know of) any clone manufacturer or Ouya into oblivion yet.

The Ouya gets away with it given that their emulators are made by independant programmers and also don't charge for them. If Nintendo went after Ouya, the most that they could do would be to take down the N64/GBC/GBA/NDS emulators from the store, not shut down the Ouya. They aren't providing any roms at all, and they even tell you to go download public domain homebrew and not commercial roms.

I don't want to get way way off topic here, but I assume you bean the pce.emu? Have you successfully gotten any TG-16 games to work? Every single rom I try fails. I can play Japanese PC Engine roms, but none of the English releases. Do you have any tips to help?

[Tanooki]

They're both tempting. The Ouya is for the moderately more informed buyer who is aware of roms, emulators, how to install both and to use those games within it. The Ouya also doubles, triples, and so on as a multimedia box, android app/game player, and whatever else they clearly advertise on the website.

The Retron5 is niche and not in a way in the same respect. Who gives a shit if it's an emulator box? We may or may not because we're overly informed and set in our ways, but I doubt extremely they'll print on the box 'emulator for NIntendo and Sega games.' It will say "Plays: A B C..." and that's it, then highlight it can use original controllers as a plus. To the dude starting out, on a budget, or for whatever reason who walks into some ma and pa level used game shop and sees ths on the shelf next to the shitty Yobo and older Retron or Retrobit crap they'll be blown away that it can run 10 different systems all right from the games and with the perks of clean fast painless HDMI, filters for audio/visuals, and the ability to save and load anywhere in any game that doesn't support that all just for $99.

I don't really get the confusion, it's clear what they're after.

[treismac]

So this or an Ouya?

The RetroN5 can play games for the NES, SNES, Genesis and their Japanese counterparts plus the Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance. The Ouya can play all of those PLUS games for the Neo Geo, M.A.M.E., Atari 2600, Turbografx-16 (w/ CD game support), Commodore 64, and more. There are other factors to consider, of course, but the ability to play these extra systems I listed plus Ouya's own games is a huge edge that the Ouya has over the RetroN5.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I just want to make it clear that again, I'll be buying a RetroN5 to fully review for you guys. Unlike Retro-Bit, I have no official partership with Hyperkin and have to pay out of pocket for any reviews of their products. Still, this is a case where the interest in the retro gaming community is too strong to ignore. Still, expect a fair and unbiased review. I'm not a big fan of Hyperkin's past product line, but I'm not going to let that influence my assessment of the RetroN5.

[Tanooki]

Other than the v2 of the Supaboy I've got total contempt for their clone consoles, retrobit too, they're junky and fall short. But something about this claiming 100%, GBA being put on it, HDMI that's responsive to old fast twitch 2D games, and the rest makes me take notice. I won't rush out like you, but if I see good things from other owners I'd be in.

[IrishNinja]

looking forward to your review, Satoshi. still, no updates on a release date here?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I haven't released any press releases from my Hyperkin contact, so no, there is no release date yet.

However, my Retro-Bit contact has told me that the Super Retro Trio is expected to launch mid-to-late March 2014, so if I had to hazard a guess, the RetroN5 won't be too far behind unless Hyperkin wants to give Retro-Bit a good chuck of their potential business.

Of course, I'll be doing a through rundown of the Super Retro Trio and talking about it in great depth in a full review you guys can look forward to.

[Atarileaf]

are the ouya emulators free? How accurate are they and does ouya emulation cover all the systems the retron 5 will support?