DS launch unimpressive, ineffectual

[FantasiaWHT]

The most dull (major) system launch I've ever seen... here's what I've noticed about this that strikes me as odd.

1- Low key advertising. Maybe I'm just looking in all the wrong places, but I think outside of video gaming sources (websites, magazines, my store) I saw absolutely NOTHING about the DS. This seemed to be bore out by many other people today who walked into our store and asked what the heck it was that we were selling. Regular gaming customers, even.

2- Horrific launch library. 6 games. Only 1 first party, and it's a remake. 3 ports of console games (Urbz, Spiderman, Madden 2005). One extremely mediocre racing game, and the quirky, fun, and utterly ignored Feel the Magic XX/XY. BARELY anybody bought any game besides Super Mario 64. Out of 30 system sales, we sold only 2 Spiderman and 1 Madden. Obviously, people are only buying one game with a system, which is a horrible way to start. We got a call from our DM bitching us out because the entire district was doing terrible on game attachment. Well I called around, and nobody I talked to outside our district was being succesful in that regard either. NOBODY was interested in these games.

3- ABSOLUTELY NO ACCESSORIES FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck? How stupid can you be to not have a SINGLE accessory for sale with your system? The ONLY thing available was a REPLACEMENT part- AC adapters. Extra styluses are coming out next week. We did have ONE Hip Gear travel pack (DS case, game cases, car charger) That was it. Really dropping the ball here Nintendo... but it's not only them, there were no (besides that one I mentioned) accessories from 3rd parties either.

Accessories we could have easily sold:
-touch-pad protectors like they sell for PDAs
-extra styluses
-cases for the DS
-cases for the games
-car chargers

These are REALLY REALLY basic items that are no brainers for attachment.

Oh our district as a whole (15 stores) also already had half a dozen defective returns- broken LCD pixels, all of them. Probably about 3% of the total.

There was no line outside the store waiting to buy their DS's. We also only had TWO people all day walk in off the street and ask if we had one for sale (that didn't have a preorder)

Just a really weak launch overall.

[Flack]

From a completely neutral standpoint, I have to agree. I have only seen one commercial for the DS in the past month, and we watch a lot of television.

I was in Toys 'R Us tonight in the game area and was putzing around and saw the DS, behind a glass case. No display, no big signs, no nothing. I asked a guy working there if they had sold a lot of them and he said nope, just a couple.

[GarrettCRW]

Two words: Black Friday.

[zmweasel]

It's a Saturn-esque debut, isn't it? It's very obvious that Nintendo rushed to market in order to beat the PSP to shelves.

I'm not totally surprised by the return rate, what with twice as many opportunities for dead pixels. Unusual for a Nintendo product, however.

There's an extra stylus included with the DS, so I understand why those weren't separately available at launch, but you're spot-on about the other accessories.

-- Z.

[Half Japanese]

Black Friday is for people to pick up cheap electonics that will break during the next few months so they can pick up another cheap substitute the next black friday. All in the name of having high blood pressure over parking spaces and having every retail employer in America abuse and overexhaust its staff for the amusement of customers who only want their $20 dvd player (after rebate).

Anyway, I was most definitely underwhelmed by the launch. We had the systems and 3 games (Urbz, Madden and Super Mario) and ONE accessory: a case. We sold a fair amount, but didn't sell out at all (or come close). I'm somewhat intrigued by the system itself and it's potential, but goddamn did they fuck up the launch! I'll wait until there's even ONE game I want to play for it (Mr. Driller comes the closest so far, and I've got that on Dreamcast already). Worst handheld launch ever?

[jaybird]

I went to several stores yesterday (Target, two Wal-marts, Best Buy, two Toys R Us) and last night & not one of them had any advertisements or even space cleared out for the DS.

I was beginning to question whether it was coming out today until I stopped by EB & saw that it was.

I wish they had just one good game & I'd buy it. Nothing out now or coming in the future interests me much.

This is supposed to be a system all about innovation & new gameplay. Where's it at Nintendo? Not in a rehash Mario game from 1996 I'm afraid.

Sony's gotta be licking their chops.

[Ed Oscuro]

People are certainly gonna be wondering when the thing appeared. I didn't realize it was out today myself, but I really don't care about release dates the first time around.

I think that the releases of DOOM III, Halo 2, and Half-Life 2 have people's hype machine worn out - a lot of people felt ripped off by those games (myself included; DOOM III is one from the technology-side of game development and feels more linear and much smaller than the original...I never dreamed it would've been that small...but anyhow) and if the DS is having problems, it's probably a good thing that not everybody is clued into the system's existence yet ;P

DS might snag some purchases from people who've gone in there local game store looking at those three titles (or thinking of purchasing, say, an XBox for Halo 2...), but that's going to be an inconsequential number in any case. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the DS gets some heavy marketing.

[zmweasel]

Worst handheld launch ever?

Nah. The N-Gage will hold that dishonor for the rest of time.

-- Z.

[Ed Oscuro]

Come on guys...are we THAT short on attention spans? LOL

NGage is what, a year out of the gates, and it still hasn't had a proper software re-release...sad.

Even so...I would imagine there's been other game machines that've had worse launches. You wouldn't remember them because they didn't stick around. Didn't the 7800 have a godawful launch?

[Half Japanese]

You know, the N-Gage slipped my mind completely. Given the nature of the beast, that's not a hard thing to do. I'd imagine even Nokia forgets it exists a good deal of the time.

[Kejoriv]

I agree with the advertising. I have not seen one commercial for it. Any ads have just been in magazines.

[joshnickerson]

News flash! World bored to death by Fantasia's whining! LOL

I'm underwhelmed by this launch as well, but I don't think we should be calling this the death of the DS just yet. I seem to remember the PS2 having a somewhat lackluster launch lineup, and what system is currently #1?

Was this launch rushed? Yeah. But I can certainly understand Nintendo wanting to get it into stores before the holiday rush.
From what I've seen, the Japanese launch looks a lot better though. We should probably be tasting that goodness soon enough. :)

By the way, to make it clear, I'm not planning on buying a DS in the near future either. I'm gonna wait for the price drop. :P

[vision89]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the DS gets some heavy marketing.
I agree. Anyways, I hope Nintendo doesn't consider what little marketing they've done to be their incredible marketing. I love Nintendo, especially the great games they've created, but for years I've been thinking that they seem to be losing touch with their audience. It first started with the bonehead decision to release Mortal Kombat with no blood, and since then there have been several bad decisions. Last I heard Nintendo's next console system won't focus on internet gameplay because Nintendo doesn't think that's where the market is heading. Just how out of touch are they? Nintendo makes incredible games and could make some of the best and most fun internet multiplayer games we've ever played, but they are so blind to the market that it doesn't appear this will happen. The PSP will deliver home gaming, but, in a handheld format. From a graphics and sound standpoint the PSP will be better than anything the handheld market has ever seen. Not only that, but Sony is a marketing giant, they will push this system and sell it as best they can. Nintendo chooses to fight a system that will have graphics and sound that the handheld market has never seen by, basically, releasing the GBA again with another screen!? How many times must I buy the same system? Now I realize the DS has many features the SP doesn't, and that it is a little ahead with both graphics and sound, and also that the new game format is better than cartridges. However, overall, it appears to be a simple hop over the GBA and not a great leap in handheld gaming, which is what the PSP will be. With all that said, I really hope Nintendo markets this system the best they can. I really don't want to see them beaten, again, but they really need to get their act together. At this point there's only two reasons for me to get the DS, The New Super Mario Bros. and the new Castlevania. With little to look forward to they may be giving Sony the edge they want. Wake up Nintendo!

[Jive3D]

I agree with the Zero hype factor.

When I was in Gamestop today, supporting Nintendo by purchasing my DS & Mario 64DS, I asked the clerk if Nintendo dicated the way that they displayed their DS products.

First off, I thought that without a doubt, Nintendo would demand that above all else, NOT to position the DS along side the GBA/GBAsp b/c of the whole 'third tier' line of thought. They said that they had complete control on how they displayed the DS and that it was all setup on it's own, in the BACK OF THE STORE. How the hell does a product launch take place and the new item is in the back corner of the store? When you walk in, the first thing that you see is the used GBA/GBC games. I shudder with disgust. Obviously these people know nothing about creating brand awareness, or they simply don't care. The nintendo retail managers need to work harder here.

This store did however have a huge sign in the window announing that they had the DS in stock, that was nice to see as I was almost biting my tongue off in anticipation of picking up my DS this morning.

I have not seen any commercials on TV, I have only viewed them on the net, at IGN and nintendo's respective sites.

If this is the most expensive ad campaign of any system launch in history (or is it exclusively the most expensive handheld launch mktg campaign?) - Then where the hell is all this money going?

regardless, I'm enjoying my DS. it's awesoem to play it outside of that restrictive kiosk.

IF I still worked at EB, this is what I would do right now with the DS. I would setup the kiosk in my store. Set both DS units to pictochat and put the thing right at the doorway. I would then sit behind the counter with my own DS and write messages to the consumers coming in the door. I think anyone seeing a screen say to them "Hey, you! come here. Yeah YOU!" would bevery interested.

It's a neat little system. It's got some cumbersome qualities, but someone sure isn't working hard enough to leverage the product's abilities to raise some awareness.

[Famidrive-16]

Give it time. I remember the GBA launch being a bit unspectaculaur too. Within a month it'll probably have more to offer.

i hope.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm underwhelmed by this launch as well, but I don't think we should be calling this the death of the DS just yet.
FantasiaWHT does have a catchy title, but nowhere is he stating this. Lots o' caps and such, but the text itself is pretty much all factual.

Not really sure about the "no third party accessories" bit though...I won't comment on that since I've never really paid much attention to a launch, but I will say that the XBox sure didn't have any third party controllers at launch ;)

[Flack]

I've been wondering if perhaps the limited marketing wasn't on purpose. The way it stands now, all the gamers who are dying to get one should have *no* problem picking a system up between now and Black Friday. Then, before Black Friday, run your marketing blitz, ensuring that the masses will buy all the rest of the units. What this would eliminate is the situation (like with the PS2) where even some die-hard fans couldn't get one before Christmas. It also decreases the whole "buy one on launch day and sell it for more money closer to Christmas" market, since the people who will want one then probably want one now, and can still get them.

Just a thought.

[zmweasel]

Give it time. I remember the GBA launch being a bit unspectaculaur too. Within a month it'll probably have more to offer.

i hope.

Not within a month. All the DS first-wave games that could be termed "killer apps" are currently scheduled for March 2005 (according to GameStop), by which time the PSP will be out.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I'm underwhelmed by this launch as well, but I don't think we should be calling this the death of the DS just yet. I seem to remember the PS2 having a somewhat lackluster launch lineup, and what system is currently #1?

The PS2 had two killer apps in its launch library: Madden and SSX. Those carried the system until the other third-party developers caught up six months later. Super Mario 64 DS, the best game in the DS launch library, is a port of an eight-year-old title. (A fabulous eight-year-old title, yes, but still.) It's certainly not blowing any minds, and it's certainly not a killer app. If anything, it reinforces the perception of the second/touch-screen features as gimmicks.

-- Z.

[K3V]

I don't know if you guys have turned on G4TechTV at all today, but there was a big huge DS on the screen for practically the whole day, showing the normal G4 programming in the top screen and DS game footage in the bottom screen. Pretty blatant advertising there.

[Kejoriv]

I just found out that the DS will be region free that is a good idea. There are tons of gamers who will pay this for the imports

[Famidrive-16]

I think all game boy systems have been region free haven't they?

[Raedon]

Search back 2 years on my posts about, "the downfall of Nintendo" it will show you their future.

Not speaking of the past but of today I've noticed that most DS ads don't even say, "NEW TODAY!!!!"

[Ed Oscuro]

I've been wondering if perhaps the limited marketing wasn't on purpose.
I should hope so, else everybody in NOA's staff should be fired. It's their job to know the market and to plan these things, so...if they didn't hold the reins back on purpose, they've been asleep at the helm.

Now like you say, what they are actually thinking isn't clear, but I thought I'd still say that...if we can think of it, I'm sure (hopefully) that NOA already did.

[Famidrive-16]

I noticed that Urbz commercial (which I hate so much btw) has the DS logo in the corner now

[maxlords]

Yeah, but as Famidrive stated, this is par standard for Nintendo for a handheld launch. Both the GBA and SP had lackluster launches as well. I'm just curious whether DS systems will actually sell out or not :D

[xaer0knight]

Two words: Black Friday.

I agree with the lackluster launch but there have been a couple... NGAGE? or possibly the TG-16? The tg-16 overall kicked Sega's and Nintendo's sales by outselling them at the holiday season, I believe or close to it. I dont think that the XBOX had enof HYPE at release, for a great system. And the two words, great marketing, hopefully in the next couple wks we will see some great titles and other things coming out, if not there is 1st Quarter 2005.

[zmweasel]

I've been wondering if perhaps the limited marketing wasn't on purpose.
I should hope so, else everybody in NOA's staff should be fired. It's their job to know the market and to plan these things, so...if they didn't hold the reins back on purpose, they've been asleep at the helm.

And if Nintendo is intentionally "holding back," it's insane. The point of launching the DS this early is to build mind- and market share before Sony's PSP blitz begins. Every day before the PSP's launch is precious.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

Yeah, but as Famidrive stated, this is par standard for Nintendo for a handheld launch. Both the GBA and SP had lackluster launches as well. I'm just curious whether DS systems will actually sell out or not :D

The GBA and SP didn't have to worry about the impending release of a new handheld from the company that has dominated the home video game industry for a decade. We'll see if Nintendo unleashes the marketing dollars in the next month and salvages this launch.

-- Z.

[Jive3D]

DS THREADS SHOULD BE COMBINED THERE ARE TOO MANY!

Maybe 2 threads
-Praise, gameplay whatever, come play online with me = good stuff
-not buying one, unsatisfied with launch or Mktg campaign

[snesfreak]

From what I've seen, the real buzz surrounding the DS is coming from young kids, not the salty denizens that seem to hang out here talking about sniping auctions and trying to be the first to post it's the end of Nintendo.

Could NOA done more promoting this? Yes ( I don't think commericals iwth the Wild Boys really cuts it). Does it really matter? No. Did the original NES commericals with ROB the robot really make the NES not seem like a holiday gimmick?

Games really make or break the systems as far as I'm concerned. NGAGE stinks because there's nothing original on it. True, the DS release titles are pretty sorry, but I think the direction NOA is going is pretty interesting. The Metroid demo is neato, even though I haven't figured out the coordination yet. The DS is one of the most innovative releases in gaming today, how many other systesm use two screens -- but what is riding on this is whether or not they followup and release something that will give the system real life. Time will tell.

[Crush Crawfish]

Personally, i thought the DS had a great launch. I went to my local funcoland to pick it up around 4PM, and the store was packed. I was told that they received a total of 30 DS systems, and they had at least 10 people waiting outside the store when it opened. 20 of the systems were reserved,a nd the 10 that weren't sold out in 9 minutes.

And about the lack of games, I do agree that the launch list is rather lackluster, but It's got at least 6 games at launch, which is 4 more than the N64 had, an d that certainly didn't fail. Whatever, I can't wait till christmas when I get mine!

[NE146]

Seems fine to me. Hype (like the Halo 2 hype) tends to turn me off more to a product. :P

[Algol]

Yep, the DS seemed to have a quiet launch, with one commercial and mostly ports as launch titles, but I say it still has plenty of time to pick up. I remember the GBA having a very silent launch day also.

[NoahsMyBro]

Just found this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/22/technology/22nintendo.html

That should add some exposure.

[RCM]

I'm underwhelmed by this launch as well, but I don't think we should be calling this the death of the DS just yet. I seem to remember the PS2 having a somewhat lackluster launch lineup, and what system is currently #1?

A lackluster PS2 lineup is being kind. Regardless of impending competition Nintendo owns the handheld market currently in the same way Sony owned the home market before the PS2 launch. I am willing to give Nintendo a little time and credit.


FantasiaWHT does have a catchy title, but nowhere is he stating this. Lots o' caps and such, but the text itself is pretty much all factual.

I'm not doubting FantasiaWHT experiences with the DS launch. I wouldn't say that his writing is reflective of the launch nationally. At least not yet. I would rather wait for tomorrows reports on the launch to see if his experience is common.


I think all game boy systems have been region free haven't they?

I don't know if the original GB is region free but the GBA is.

I really hope that the launch is a success. Hopefully the DS will be around for a while. The potential for the system is amazing. I'm not wishing death on the PSP or anything either, but I do like competition. Nintendo needs it in the portable market in the same way Sony needs it at home.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Jive3D]

I don't know if the original GB is region free but the GBA is.

Yeah, the original GB was region free as well. I've got a few imports myself.

[jaybird]

I went to EBGames.com to try to justify buying a DS now in hopes some good games would be on the way.

Here's my favorites:

Advance Wars 2 (ships 10/9/05):

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/245945.asp

Animal Crossing (ships 9/12/05):

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/245943.asp

Metroid Prime (ships 5/8/05):

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/245941.asp

Mario Kart DS (ships 9/12/05):

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/245940.asp

Yeeeesh. It's going to be a very long first year for the DS if we have to wait that long for the good games.

[Raedon]

From what I've seen, the real buzz surrounding the DS is coming from young kids, not the salty denizens that seem to hang out here talking about sniping auctions and trying to be the first to post it's the end of Nintendo.

The "old farts" have a bigger view of the world you jest about being so easy to understand. It's the same wisdom as, "You don't get to 70 being a jerkoff." IF there is any buzz on the DS I have not heard it from anyone from 5 to 50.. Everyone is waiting to see Sony. It's almost a replay of what killed Sega.



Could NOA done more promoting this? Yes ( I don't think commericals iwth the Wild Boys really cuts it). Does it really matter? No. Did the original NES commericals with ROB the robot really make the NES not seem like a holiday gimmick?

NES and ROB were not pushed as the be all thing. In fact, as soon as Companies gave the "OK" to NES, ROB was forgotten. I think many here are now to young to remember the 80's.



Games really make or break the systems as far as I'm concerned.

The SMS and Saturn has an AMAZING line up and Sega is dead. Explain that to me. Were you around for the crash of 84?

[XxMe2NiKxX]

Jaybird: Many of those dates are wrong. In fact, they all are. Every single one of those titles launches in Q1 '05.

Just wondering. Did anyone here actually pick up the DS? I certianly did, along with the so-called port of SM64. The system will not disappoint, and neither will SM64DS. There is enough fesh content in the game for it to be considered an entirely new game, and this is from someone who has completed sm64. Please. Before you judge, play it. The DS blew me away, and it will you too, if you give it a chance.

[Raedon]

Jaybird: Many of those dates are wrong. In fact, they all are. Every single one of those titles launches in Q1 '05.

Just wondering. Did anyone here actually pick up the DS? I certianly did, along with the so-called port of SM64. The system will not disappoint, and neither will SM64DS. There is enough fesh content in the game for it to be considered an entirely new game, and this is from someone who has completed sm64. Please. Before you judge, play it. The DS blew me away, and it will you too, if you give it a chance.

I got a Atari 2600 boxed with 5 games and Telestar unit last week for $5 at a yard sale. When was the last 2600 produced?

I have a Virtua boy - I gave it a chance as you say... in 2001.

This is a collector's site. I'm not saying I'm the only one here but I don't buy "new" systems.. My PS2 cost $100 when it was $200 and my Gamecube cost $99 the first year it was out. I'm sure I'll have one but I haven't owned a release date system sense the SNES.

[SoulBlazer]

Sony has'nt announced a launch date for the PSP in North America, Zach. Or did they make a official annoucement that I somehow missed? I know we have a price and date for JAPAN, but I've seen NOTHING for a date or price for NA. I don't see it being out by March, so Nintendo should be okay with the DS, even if the launch was a bit rushed.

[FantasiaWHT]

Those dates (while I'm sure will change) are most definitely NOT going to be Quarter 01 2005. They were listed as Q1 2005 for quite a while, but only recently (last few days) did they all change to those later dates in our systems. There isn't a single good reason they would do that unless they had solid word from Publishers that that is where they are being pushed to.

I will definitely admit that my perceptions are from a local point of view. I spread out as best I could, calling all the other stores in my district and getting a good feel for their sales as well. I also checked out and had my wife check out other local retailers, where experiences were very much the same.

As far as black Friday goes... normally I'd say there won't be any for sale. But I have been told (and I have relayed to preorder customers, which we didn't get enough to cover) that we will receive a second shipment before Thanksgiving.

I would also like to stress I never said I thought it was terrible, or claimed that I thought it would be the death of the system ;) I think with all the fantastic games coming out.... next year.... it'll do fine then.

[FantasiaWHT]

I also want to say with so few good titles coming out for several months... DS will lose momentum. IF (big if) Sony does launch the PSP in Spring, their momentum will only increase, because they'll know how to do a decent marketing job. That's bad news for the DS, in my opinion.

[pixelsnpolygons]

As someone who also works in retail, I'd have to agree. And for someone who has their TV on every second that they are home - I am yet to see a DS commercial and if someone like me fails to see one, chances are it isn't being run much, or at all.

I went through a period of being hyped for this. I still want one, but I am glad I held off and I will continue to until Nintendo proves it is behind the machine 100%. Maybe next E3 they will gather some momentum - but it seems the lead they had on the PSP has already been partially wasted. I don't care about that as much as I care about them really putting themselves behind this. Nintendo has said, among other things, that if the DS fails they will be crushed - it looks like they are not particularly worried about that. They've also said it provides a window into the Revolution - which hopefully doesn't refer to the lackluster launch games, inability to live up to its technological purpose (in this case, inability to successfully prove that it isn't a gimmick) and little to no advertising.

I hate to sound like a cynic, but just when I think Nintendo has learned something they prove me wrong all over again.

[Raedon]

I also want to say with so few good titles coming out for several months... DS will lose momentum. IF (big if) Sony does launch the PSP in Spring, their momentum will only increase, because they'll know how to do a decent marketing job. That's bad news for the DS, in my opinion.

Yep, the DS is the N64 of handhelds. Nintendo died the second Mortal Kombat didn't have blood and the N64 was cart. Small events ripple over time.

I love Nintendo like I love Atari and Sega and always will but you are watching the end.


Sell your stock.

[NintendoMan]

IF I still worked at EB, this is what I would do right now with the DS. I would setup the kiosk in my store. Set both DS units to pictochat and put the thing right at the doorway. I would then sit behind the counter with my own DS and write messages to the consumers coming in the door. I think anyone seeing a screen say to them "Hey, you! come here. Yeah YOU!" would bevery interested.

That is a GREAT idea!!!!!!!

[vision89]

I've seen the DS commercial a few times. The commercial goes something like this... It has the screen full of static and a woman saying "touch it, you know you want to." As the DS is displayed on screen in front of the static. As I said, my rendition of the commercial may not be exact, but it goes something like that. Honestly, it is a piss poor commercial and I really don't see how they can justify an expense like tv time on that waste of even commercial air time. Obviously Nintendo is using this commercial to try to shed off the kiddie image, though it actually just ended up being kinda weird. Hopefully Nintendo gets it together, as Sony will assuredly have a lot of hard marketing for their system. I really hope both systems do well, I'll probably get a DS after the New Super Mario Bros. and Castlevania come out, and a PSP after it's been out for awhile and the price drops and they get some good games. Both systems have potential, hopefully Nintendo pulls it together.

[NintendoMan]

Nintendo died the second Mortal Kombat didn't have blood and the N64 was cart.

Well, I sure as hell hope, even though I know that alot of people did, NOT buy the N64 JUST BECAUSE they were carts.

To me, that would be like telling me you don't want the Nintendo DS because you don't like the way it smells. Just crazy reasons.
:)

[vision89]

Yep, the DS is the N64 of handhelds. Nintendo died the second Mortal Kombat didn't have blood and the N64 was cart. Small events ripple over time.
That's hitting the nail on the head. Also, lets not forget the brilliant business decision that was the Virtual Boy. Honestly, I love the Virtual Boy and think it is a great system, but from a business perspective it was doomed. I mean, it's main competition seemed to be the Game Boy. Nintendo basically killed their own project with that move. The Virtual boy was a gimmick and I worry the DS will follow the same path. Lets hope Nintendo markets this thing right so that it doesn't. It has potential to have some great games, and so does the PSP.

[NintendoMan]

Just wondering. Did anyone here actually pick up the DS? I certianly did, along with the so-called port of SM64. The system will not disappoint, and neither will SM64DS. There is enough fesh content in the game for it to be considered an entirely new game, and this is from someone who has completed sm64. Please. Before you judge, play it. The DS blew me away, and it will you too, if you give it a chance.

Everything you just said is COMPLETELY true in my opinion as well.
I don't think enough people realize that there are enough extras and new stuff to cover any hesitation of buying Mario64 DS. And all the mini games are cool as well. I just need my brother, sister, girlfriend to get one so I can play mulitplayer and pictochat with them! (I am thinking of getting one for my girlfriend for Christmas)

I definately think though this is a week fucking game launch. EVERYTHING was rushed, and the games list shows that. But again, they did want to beat the PSP.
I am amazed this the system and everything is just beautiful right when it's turned on for the first time.

I would also like to add that GBA games look SO MUCH BETTER on the DS than the GBA SP. the SP is frontlit while the DS is backlit, that's why it's so much better.

[Raedon]

I know what the people wanted 10 years ago. Cart wasn't it.


The N64 is the last system I collect for though as carts and cart slots last longer then CD's and moving CD/DVD drives. When we are 60 my N64 will work but my PS2 will not.

[retroman]

I like my DS....dont know what all the fuss is about

[FantasiaWHT]

Keep in mind this has nothing to do with if we think the SYSTEM is good or not. Whether we like it or not. Try to keep on topic about the launch itself and its potential effects.

[NintendoMan]

I know what the people wanted 10 years ago. Cart wasn't it.

The N64 is the last system I collect for though as carts and cart slots last longer then CD's and moving CD/DVD drives. When we are 60 my N64 will work but my PS2 will not.

Yes they last longer. So why don't people want them, and want CD's instead.

[thegreatescape]

I know what the people wanted 10 years ago. Cart wasn't it.

The N64 is the last system I collect for though as carts and cart slots last longer then CD's and moving CD/DVD drives. When we are 60 my N64 will work but my PS2 will not.

Yes they last longer. So why don't people want them, and want CD's instead.

Becayse 99% of the population dont give a rats tail if their game will work in 60 years, or even 10 years because by then they would have sold it and bought the newest system ;)

[goatdan]

A few general comments...

If anyone is complaining that the DS is not a disk medium, I really don't understand where you're coming from. While we'll see how the PSP holds up, I have gone through two portable CD players in the last five just from using them in my car to play CDs. The first one burned its CD lens up, and the second one wouldn't spin but would just sit around and click. Ironically, these were both Sony brand CD players as I do believe that they tend to have a better quality to their "walkman" products. When we're in an age that can cheaply put a gig of info on a flash drive, I don't think that Nintendo's making the DS a cart was a bad idea, but a really good one. Something tells me it will hold up better than the PSP, no matter how solid the PSP is just because of that.

I generally feel that the reason behind Nintendo's lack of advertising is for a few reasons:

The first reason is that they realize that they do not have too many top tier games available at launch. Neither did the PS2, regardless of how rose-colored anyone's view is of it now. Doesn't anyone else remember that the Matrix (movie) was the top-selling thing that people bought with their PS2? It wasn't for games... not until the games started to come in which wasn't immediatley. The DS isn't going to be heavily promoted until some more games that aren't GBA games are released for it.

Secondly, Nintendo has already put up a third production factory in China because they are worried that they will not be able to meet demand in Japan. Why in the world would Nintendo spend tons of money promoting a product that they are already essentially sold out of? After it sells out and you get some products back in stock, then you promote the console. I think we'll see the same thing.

Finally, I have seen some advertisements for the console, most of which do not feature any games and are clearly targeted for a more adult audience. I forget where I saw the ads, but I know that they were in magazines. If Nintendo is seriously considering targeting a more adult audience with this machine, perhaps their advertisements will focus less on the "traditional" media outlets and more into different mediums.

The industry as a whole has learned a lot in the past ten years about how to launch a console, how to promote a console and how to gain market share. While Nintendo has had some missteps, I do not think that you can not attribute any sort of failure to this strategy *yet*.

Remember, the Dreamcast's launch (9.9.99) was considered by many "experts" as the best console launch ever, as it released for a solid price point with one of the most solid bunch of launch games ever for a console. It didn't ensure that the DC was going to go on to becoming one of the best-selling consoles ever. Give it a few months until we know some sales figures and have at least a dozen games out for it, and then let's revisit this topic.

[thegreatescape]

I've been wondering if perhaps the limited marketing wasn't on purpose.
I should hope so, else everybody in NOA's staff should be fired. It's their job to know the market and to plan these things, so...if they didn't hold the reins back on purpose, they've been asleep at the helm.

And if Nintendo is intentionally "holding back," it's insane. The point of launching the DS this early is to build mind- and market share before Sony's PSP blitz begins. Every day before the PSP's launch is precious.

-- Z.

By the time the DS gets released in Europe/Australia the PSP launch will be even closer, but on the other hand at least there will be some half decent games out, so it could get interesting.

[Raedon]

Secondly, Nintendo has already put up a third production factory in China because they are worried that they will not be able to meet demand in Japan.

Point me the press release on this.. I'm calling BS.

EDIT: actually I'm calling most of that BS.

[EricRyan34]

yeah, i havnt heard much about it either.

[maxlords]

I heard that Nintendo was worried about meeting demand due to the preorders in Japan that were nearly double the number of available units, but not about any new factories. And I have no refs for that info either.

[goatdan]

Secondly, Nintendo has already put up a third production factory in China because they are worried that they will not be able to meet demand in Japan.

Point me the press release on this.. I'm calling BS.

EDIT: actually I'm calling most of that BS.

You're calling most of my post BS? Where I basically said that we should take a wait and see approach to the DS? What the hell?

As for the third factory:

http://news.com.com/Nintendo+reacts+to+DS+demand+as+orders,+share+pric e+rise/2100-1043_3-5453109.html?part=rss&tag=5453109&subj=news.1043.20
http://www.engadget.com/entry/7435545998821855/
http://www.ferrago.com/story/4747
http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3523&lsaid=219793

A quote from Lik-Sang's article...


The Nintendo DS is not even released and already one of the best selling systems worldwide, even surpassing the pre-orders of the GBA.

Seriously, if you think I'm lying that much, use Google and type in "Nintendo DS China Factory." Those four were taken from the first 15 or so results.

[devils advocate]

Secondly, Nintendo has already put up a third production factory in China because they are worried that they will not be able to meet demand in Japan.

Point me the press release on this.. I'm calling BS.

EDIT: actually I'm calling most of that BS.


Then you don't read much.

Nintendos stock also rose about 3% (closer to five now?). which is pretty good, when their stock already costs triple digits.

Where I live, the DS is sold out across the city. We are a city of around 700,000. I finally found ONE, at an out of the way TRU.

This system will do fine. Sony's may as well. There could be room for two major hand held producers.

[goatdan]

Since my opinion is apparently so biased, let me share my thoughts on why Nintendo *wouldn't* advertise more, as taken by quotes from the above news outlets...


According to Sunday's Nikkei Journal, Nintendo said preorders for the Nintendo DS have reached 2 million units, double the company's initial expectations.


The unprecedented demand means that Nintendo have already ceased selling the new handheld online, and have opened a third production factory in China - where the machine is produced.


While this won’t fill the initial 2 million pre-orders, it will allow Nintendo to get 2 million in circulation within a couple months. Nintendo now expects to sell 4 million DS units by the end of the fiscal year in March.


In the past, Nintendo has often tried to limit supplies of new hardware at launch to boost demand. However, nowadays, quickly establishing a sizable installed base at launch is critical for new hardware, since it drives future software support for the platform. With Sony's PSP, which launches in Japan December 12, expected to be in short supply during its first months of release, Nintendo is likely looking to deliver as many DS units to the market as possible.

Put this all together, and I hope that someone can see why I feel that we may have to wait to judge the DS launch for a while. If I was Nintendo, I most certainly wouldn't be tossing millions into a launch campaign if I can't keep up with demand. I'd rather use my advertising money to combat Sony when I have the systems to sell and they really begin going head to head.

[NintendoMan]

I generally feel that the reason behind Nintendo's lack of advertising is for a few reasons:

The first reason is that they realize that they do not have too many top tier games available at launch. Neither did the PS2, regardless of how rose-colored anyone's view is of it now. Doesn't anyone else remember that the Matrix (movie) was the top-selling thing that people bought with their PS2? It wasn't for games... not until the games started to come in which wasn't immediatley. The DS isn't going to be heavily promoted until some more games that aren't GBA games are released for it.

Secondly, Nintendo has already put up a third production factory in China because they are worried that they will not be able to meet demand in Japan. Why in the world would Nintendo spend tons of money promoting a product that they are already essentially sold out of? After it sells out and you get some products back in stock, then you promote the console. I think we'll see the same thing.

Finally, I have seen some advertisements for the console, most of which do not feature any games and are clearly targeted for a more adult audience. I forget where I saw the ads, but I know that they were in magazines. If Nintendo is seriously considering targeting a more adult audience with this machine, perhaps their advertisements will focus less on the "traditional" media outlets and more into different mediums.

This definately makes a WHOLE LOTTA SENSE! I believe this is what nintendo is doing. It's true though, what's the point of marketing a system if there isn't enough in yet.
If they did market like that now, said person goes to store to get DS. That person doesn't get one cause there is none in. That person can't find one anywhere and decides to no longer get one.

[zmweasel]

There is enough fesh content in the game for it to be considered an entirely new game, and this is from someone who has completed sm64. Please. Before you judge, play it. The DS blew me away, and it will you too, if you give it a chance.

Uh...no, there isn't. The four-player mode is a throwaway, and the mini-games are touch-screen demos because the real game doesn't use or need the touch-screen. It's a slightly souped-up port of an eight-year-old game.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

This definately makes a WHOLE LOTTA SENSE! I believe this is what nintendo is doing. It's true though, what's the point of marketing a system if there isn't enough in yet.
If they did market like that now, said person goes to store to get DS. That person doesn't get one cause there is none in. That person can't find one anywhere and decides to no longer get one.

So Nintendo's going to wait until the DS and the PSP are both on the shelves before marketing the DS, instead of marketing the DS while it has the field to itself. Yes, that makes...no sense at all.

-- Z.

[goatdan]

So Nintendo's going to wait until the DS and the PSP are both on the shelves before marketing the DS, instead of marketing the DS while it has the field to itself. Yes, that makes...no sense at all.

Zach,

They're essentially sold out right now. We'll see how many more arrive on store shelves, but if what they're claiming is true, I don't see any point in marketing the system like mad right now.

When they get more stock, they can begin a bigger push. I expect that their real marketing will kick in around late December / early January -- well in advance of the PSP, but with enough time to actually get the DS to store shelves.

Lastly, do any of us know how marketing is being held in Japan where the PSP launches in about two weeks? I'd imagine that is the market Nintendo would focus on for now. I haven't heard anything about the Nintendo market. Considering you are so in touch with the industry, perhaps you have?

[Dangerboy]

Seeing how I share the retail spotlight with Fantasia, I'd figure I'd toss in my 2 cents from here in the Windy City suburbs.

1. Launch Hype
We had...NADA. As in like, nothing. There were a few home office made system boxes, and that's it. I actually took the time and ink to photshop together some CD cases for the games, complete with real covers, pics etc. They were even used through out my district because I was the only one who realized Nintendo maybe needed a little help.

I know several stores that never even got the basic marketing.

- Boo to Nintendo.

2. Flood gates open
I had about 10 people waiting for me to open the gate at 11am, at had phone calls coming in for the DS (which I have lovingly dubbed that Damn System) since 9:30am. I had to turn away quite a few people because we didn't have enough for even our pre-orders.

- Yay to Nintendo.
- Boo to Nintendo for short supplying us.

3. About the lack of marketing.
This may have been for two reasons.

1. From my understanding of news from the Way East, apparently Japan was expecting some 1 Million pre-orders for the deck, and instead got 2 Million. Word is Nintendo is taking care of the mother land first before drenching the West with product. Hence why there has been limited ads; why bother causing a riot amongst already crasy Holiday shoppers who can't get the deck when you can pester just a few who can.

2. It's like the big secret. The in thing. The rumors Billy's mom heard while she was listening in on her son's conversation with Jimmy. Everyone wants a PS2 just because everyone else freaking owns one, so you want to join the in crowd.

However, here's a Nintendo product that few have heard about, yet apparently all the in-kids/folsk know about it. We want in, too! Make my child the happiest kid on the block!

- Draw to Nintendo

Other observations:
- The launch games were typical launch games. I guarantee you Feel the Magic/Music whatever it is will be a sleeper hit. Just for the back of the box description. You'll know it when you see it.

- Super Mario is beautiful. Practically a Director's Cut Remix.

- Madden actually sold decently here, as did the Urban Asphault. Urbz would follow behind. Spider-man 2 was an "Eh, why not."

- Yay to Nintendo
- Eh to 3rd Parties.

The DS will take off around March, guaranteed. Heck, they need for one jumped ten-fold once we got the stupid kiosk in. Heck, I'm a non-portable person myself, and *I* wanted one after messing around with it.

Plus, it shows more promise that the PSP in both functionality and playability. I won't even bother with battery life.

FInally...



Worst handheld launch ever?

Nah. The N-Gage will hold that dishonor for the rest of time.

-- Z.

What, even Game.com did better? At least the N-Gage cames are somewhat keeping their price points :).

Jason

[zmweasel]

Put this all together, and I hope that someone can see why I feel that we may have to wait to judge the DS launch for a while. If I was Nintendo, I most certainly wouldn't be tossing millions into a launch campaign if I can't keep up with demand. I'd rather use my advertising money to combat Sony when I have the systems to sell and they really begin going head to head.

So it's a no-win situation for Nintendo. It can promote the DS now, while it has the field to itself, but doesn't have enough hardware to sell. Or it can promote it later, when it does have the hardware, and directly compete against a company which can (and will) more than match its marketing dollars.

Is there anyone left out there who DOESN'T think the DS is a knee-jerk reaction of a product?

-- Z.

[Promophile]

The first post mentioned no accesories on launch day. My target had all sorts of cases and such on release day.

[goatdan]

Just as a counterpoint to my own point... (I'm really not on any side but the "wait and see" side...)


We'll see how many more arrive on store shelves, but if what they're claiming is true, I don't see any point in marketing the system like mad right now.

It could end up being true and it would surprise me if Nintendo just "manufactured" this information about suddenly having too many preorders and that there will be no shortage this time around but there will be a *perceived* shortage.

Most past releases have had shortages that were caused by the manufacturers to increase demand, and Nintendo is notorious for this -- but in today's climate, a hardware shortage means that you may not keep the demand. Instead, the PSP could greatly benefit off of it.

Perhaps Nintendo is just creating a perceived shortage in an attempt to help increase demand for the console while not actually having the shortage to begin with. I wouldn't put it past them, and if the stories of the DS being pretty readily available that many people on here have mentioned are true, it could come out in a few months that this whole thing was a PR stunt by Nintendo that failed.

Again... I'll wait and see.

[zmweasel]

When they get more stock, they can begin a bigger push. I expect that their real marketing will kick in around late December / early January -- well in advance of the PSP, but with enough time to actually get the DS to store shelves.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm hopeful that Nintendo will indeed kick it into high gear shortly.


Lastly, do any of us know how marketing is being held in Japan where the PSP launches in about two weeks? I'd imagine that is the market Nintendo would focus on for now. I haven't heard anything about the Nintendo market. Considering you are so in touch with the industry, perhaps you have?

Dan, you don't have to be a condescending asshole just because we've clashed in other threads. In any case, I focus on the North American market, not the Japanese one.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

What, even Game.com did better? At least the N-Gage cames are somewhat keeping their price points :).

Game.com didn't do better, but Tiger didn't throw as much money into it as the hundreds of millions that Nokia threw into the N-Gage.

-- Z.

[goatdan]

So it's a no-win situation for Nintendo. It can promote the DS now, while it has the field to itself, but doesn't have enough hardware to sell. Or it can promote it later, when it does have the hardware, and directly compete against a company which can (and will) more than match its marketing dollars.

I agree with you for the most part. It probably is a no-win situation for Nintendo, except for the fact that they are claiming to have sold 2 million consoles already while barely lifting a finger to do it. That's a win in anyone's book. If that's true, and we're looking at an installed userbase of 4 million people by March with little to no advertising, it could be considered one of the most successful console launches ever in the future.


Is there anyone left out there who DOESN'T think the DS is a knee-jerk reaction of a product?

Considering the amount of time that it takes to develop a console like this, I think that the DS is not a knee-jerk reaction. Also considering the battery life and power of it, I would say that Nintendo had this sucker in development for a long time. I wouldn't doubt if Nintendo's had a similar product to the DS on the back-burner for years, waiting for an advanced challenger to come along.


Dan, you don't have to be a condescending asshole just because we've clashed in other threads. In any case, I focus on the North American market, not the Japanese one.

Jeez! Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a "condescending asshole" in any way. You made it very clear in other posts that you work in the industry writing reviews in other threads, yes. Because of that, I thought that perhaps you were privy to some knowledge that I wasn't. Sorry if it came off in the way that you thought it did.

I seriously would like to know about the promotion in the Japanese market, if anyone knows.