The demise of Nintendo is almost upon us!

[FurinkanianFrood]

Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

[lendelin]

Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

[Graham Mitchell]

The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.

a) It DOES have analog control. It uses the sliding tool. It may take a while to get used to, but it works. (Were you a pro with the analog stick when N64 came out? New forms of control always take time to learn, but I think so many people are expecting instant gratification that they quickly dismiss the sliding too. They shouldn't, because, in Mario 64, anyway, it works.).

b) Anyone saying that the second screen is useless hasn't played any DS games other than Mario 64 (in which it really is pretty much useless).

Mr. Driller DS uses it to simulate the long, stretching playfield of the arcade game, and I'm constantly looking at it to make sure stuff isn't going to fall on me.

Warioware has used it creatively not only in cinemas (and believe me, they are cool with the 2 screens) but to elongate the playfield vertically. Several of the minigames do this, and it's really kind of cool.

By far the best use of the second screen that I've seen has been in Yoshi's Touch and Go. The playfield is extended into the upper screen, but you can't interact with anything up there because it's not touch sensitive. This makes it a puzzle; you have to do things on the bottom screen to allow you to interact with the top screen--ie, knock down enemies or items--while keeping an eye on the bottom screen. It makes for a cool effect, and it's an interesting way to play that I haven't really seen too much before.

Also, keep in mind, it's basically the same thing as having the extended horizontal screen when you think about it. The total surface area of the 2 screens is either equivalent, or greater than that of the PSP, and that's one of the things the developers use it for.

[FurinkanianFrood]

Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

I ain't arguing, but I am rather sick of this Nintendo is dying crap.

I just get a wee bit carried away you see....

I mean what I say, I just don't mean to be so frigging mean about it.

I'm a freakin' poet. Or not.

Bring some real evidence that Nintendo is dying and I'll be all ears.

Nintendo's sales figures don't point to imminent doom guys.

Money talks. None of the console manufacturers are anywhere near insolvent right now.

Anyone who says the N isn't Novative (bad pun, whoops!) hasn't played Warioware.

I had trouble dragging myself away from a beat up demo unit the other day.....

I would almost buy a DS just for Warioware.



The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.


Gameplay is impressive. The PSP will always lack titles in this respect. What is impressive about PSP games anyhow?

Funky 3D graphics, eh? What a load....

I admit being intrigued by Lumines, but even as much as I respect and admire Mizuguchi the game is on an overpriced system with naff controls and little in the way of decent games.

[hydr0x]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

obviously... but you gotta give him this, he's damn good at it

[ozyr]

I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!! :hmm:

[suppafly]

I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!! :hmm:

I think we´re reading people´s thoughts here.

If you are sensitive to this kind of discussions, please dont visit the thread. Its as easy as that.

[goatdan]

I meant the marketshare between the DS and PSP, excluding of course the GBA. Let's face it, the GBA will be dead soon anyway.

Well, it all depends how you look at the GBA I guess. It still seems to be having a lot of hardware coming out, and it seems that people are still buying it. If Nintendo is serious about this third pillar business model they keep touting (which they could be if they ever brought out the Palm features, as I've mentioned in the past), then the GBA is around to stay at least a little while longer.


I pointed out that it is not a zero sum game. Expansion on one side doesn't necessarily mean the reduction of the other side in the same amount. Sony will expand the demographics and win some of the so far non-handheld-gamers, BUT it will also severely cut into customers of N as exclusive PSP owners. In other words: Sony wioll get the best of two worlds: the potential of new customers, and the potential to get traditional handheld gamers.

Well, you're stating that the only place where there could be expansion of the market here is from Sony. I disagree. If / when Nintendo ever brings out the Palm OS for the DS, suddenly Nintendo has a true killer app for a completely different market than anyone has ever had before. I've said this before -- the two screen make up for a PDA would be perfect. PDAs, because of how they have been tradionally made, are currently coming in packages with half the power of the DS for two to four times the cost. I have one. I use it all the time to keep track of meetings, to do lists and so on. I wouldn't mind upgrading to a dual-screened, twice-as-powerful with a MUCH longer battery life NDS if it actually had Palm.

I've ranted about that time and time again though. As of right now, it is a moot point and the NDS isn't appealing to a broad market yet. Bring that in, and suddenly Nintendo is going places that Sony can't with the PSP.


I undertsand your valid reasoning, but it is not a hitting counterargument, rather the misunderstanding about terms. I meant with the traditional console business the three major current console systems, regardless of their hyped multi-media abilities. The latter are anyway not important in the long run for the current systems, it is the software and other things. (the Xbox couldn't catch-up with the PS2 despite its DVD playing abilities and superior hardware specs) In ten years from now, the multi-media aspect will play a big role, that is anyway the long-term goal of Sony and MS.

The DVD playing aspect was a HUGE reason that the PS2 caught on in Japan as quickly as it did. The PS2 was one of the cheapest DVD players in the country, so people were buying it to watch DVDs. How many weeks was "The Matrix (movie)" the top selling item that people in Japan bought with their new PS2 systems? Then Nintendo comes along and says that their system won't have the DVD drive but will just do games for nearly the same price.

Japanese consumers said, "Okay... DVD player and game system for one price or just game system for a slightly lesser price?" And thus the GCN didn't sell as well.

The Xbox can't be talked about in Japanese terms because it didn't come out over there until the PS2 had a great grip on the market, and it didn't have games most Japanese gamers were too interested in. In America however, the Xbox is doing great and is selling better than the GameCube... And it isn't just because of Halo. It is also because of the great Live set up that was made and all of the other features that you can get with it. The ability to rip your own music and play it back during games is something that a lot of people really like.

The multimedia functions are very important to a system's success now. And the sooner Nintendo realizes that, the better off they will be.

And the only way that long-term multimedia goal can be acheived by both Sony or Microsoft is through the software. Yes, the software is ultimately one of the most important parts of selling a console... but you can't discount the true extras that are included nowadays. In fact, the reason the Xbox is so full of them is that Microsoft wants the consumer to start demanding more and more from their systems, and Microsoft wants to be there to provide it. Even with the upgrades they have available for the Xbox right now, they are starting to do that.


"innovation" with the "Revolution" is PR-talk by N. I believe it when I see it. The Ds according to N is also a revolutionary system full of innovative capabilities, and I was mistrustful about the PR talk back then, and I'm even more mistrustful after we've seen the little revolutionary machine.

If Nintendo had come through with the Palm OS the way they had intended, I think that it would be more clear exactly how and why the NDS is an innovative system.


I don't know how this new 'console' system will look like and play like and what it will be. It won't be a competitor for the next gen systems for sure according to N officials. Less power, a new control scheme, shorter games, connectivity in a mysterious way, but it won't be a "traditional" console like the PS3 or the next Xbox or the GC.

I wouldn't say that just because a system isn't the most powerful means that it will lose, and I don't get why you keep saying (in this post and others) that now power is such a big part of it.

The PS2 is vastly underpowered compared to the Xbox, and has sold what... 10 times as many consoles?

The NES was a lot less powerful than the other consoles of the time.

The PS1 was less powerful than the N64.

The Genesis and SNES were less powerful than the Jaguar or 3DO.

And the name on the box that you buy really doesn't matter that much. Atari wasn't in dire straights when they started production on the Lynx, and it only cost about $60.00 more than a GameBoy. The GameBoy got a bunch of what people on here would argue were "kiddie" games like Mario. The Lynx got a bunch of arcade ports and some puzzle games and things that, at least at the beginning, were more complex and "aimed for adults."

But the Lynx didn't get Tetris. The GameBoy did. Had Atari actually had those rights, who knows what we would all be playing right now. The "battle" comes down to software, as you've mentioned -- not hardware specs, and not "innovation", but what people want to play.

Will people want to play the Nintendo Revolution? It depends on what Nintendo is selling us on. If it is too far off the wall, no one will care. But I'm sure that there are some innovative things out there that would be very neat for them to do in games, just like if the damn NDS was actually a PDA that would've been pretty innovative and would've been the first handheld I would've wanted. Nintendo could deliver that. Also, from your other post:


You'll end up with red numbers, and N isn't Sega or MS. Sega could take the red numbers for a long time because it was basically privately sponsored by its president, and MS can take the red numbers over some time because of its financial resources. Even MS will go out of the game business in five years if the next Xbox doesn't increase marketshares and profits.

N opted to go out in this situation as long as they are financially sound. They had one healthy leg, the handheld leg, and they will be limping on this leg too now with the PSP as a competitor.

Sega couldn't take the red numbers, which is why they left the hardware industry. They lost money on the 32X, Saturn and then Dreamcast. After the Saturn, there was a huge internal debate if they were going to release the Dreamcast or not because of the financial risk that it would be taking.

Microsoft can and will continue to spend money because as I've pointed out time and time again, they want to be the box that goes between your TV and the "entertainment world." Microsoft believes that in a few years, there will be some sort of box that you will be able to download movies onto to watch, record TV on, play games on, surf the net on and so on... and every time you download a movie or something you'll need to pay a fee, part of which will go to the Interface.

Well, Microsoft already owns the vast majority of computer desktops out there... how can they expand their market? By becoming this box on the TV. Suddenly, any time you want to be entertained you'll be paying Microsoft a nickel or something... and Microsoft will be making a LOT more money. Bill Gates is a visionary, and is willing to spend billions of dollars to get Microsoft in the position to be that company. They won't be leaving any time soon, and it definitely isn't about profits in the next five years. If it was, the current Xbox wouldn't have half the stuff it does in it.

The Nintendo opted to try the 'niche' market because they are financially sound. Nintendo, even selling what they are in the way of the Cube is still managing to make millions from it. Microsoft may be out-selling them, but Nintendo is far out-earning them.

The thing that people seem to be missing with the whole "console wars" business that is going on right now is that the market is MUCH bigger than it ever has been in the past. Because of that, a system that is in third place might not be selling 50,000 consoles a year, but selling 1,000,000 consoles a year. With that many sales, there is definitely room for three consoles in the market. And if Nintendo rolls out something that truly is innovative and that people want to play... something that they can't play on another system, Nintendo will have a decent size share of the market.

Nintendo isn't "down and out." Nintendo isn't "going out of business." Nintendo has simply made a couple bad moves in the last two generations that have firmly implanted them in position #3 in the home market right now. So Nintendo is trying something new that could be a continuation of their bad moves (but which still has the potential to make them money) or it could be a really good move.

[lendelin]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

[LAGO]

After carefully reading over this thread i've come to a conclusion that, I believe we can all agree on! I know it's a miracle but I think i've done it.

And that conclusion is ... insert drum roll ...

Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to coem out for the DS.

LOL

[goatdan]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

I completely agree with you actually. I really enjoy conversations like this more than just showing up and seeing that other people founds some excellent games :)


Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to come out for the DS.

Damn right! I'll admit this much - I like Nintendo as a company. Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console, and I hate the fact that I see all this potential for the DS to be cool and be something that I actually want, but it isn't yet. I wasted $150 on an N64 because Nintendo promised me things that they didn't deliver. Because Nintendo didn't deliver the software to actually make their product into something truly innovative and something that could be a "third pillar," I ended up with something else instead of holding onto hope that Nintendo would ever bring out the Palm OS.

I want to like the DS, really... I do. But without the extra features being a little more usefull... blah.

[sabre2922]

I agree with Lendelin and Goatdan I enjoy a good discussion and debate especially when it concerns my favorite hobby wich is VIDEOGAMES.

If someone doesnt like the topic or think its "beating a dead horse" then take the time to create a NEW equally interesting topic and dont bother reading the posts that you may think is a waste of time.

In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl :evil:

I hate censorship and I cannot stand those (even though it is thankfully a very select few) who get on this board and start calling every and any topic that doesnt interest them or seems to "offend" them in some way "RETARDED" or THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE LOCKED :angry:

One of the few reasons a topic should be or may be locked is if its basically a double post of a previous topic and we all sometimes make that mistake I know that I do so I started using the search on the board on a more regular basis.

[Archenemy]

Until someone takes it personal, I don't see any reason to lock up these particular kind of threads.

Is Nintendo doomed?
Who will lead the next Generation?
Who sells more?

Personally- I don't give a dime. I am more on the retro edge and I just play the games I like. Incidentally I have to purchase the game console in order to play those games.

I used to be a big Nintendo boy. Now I am stuck with the Saturn. Call me grampa if you like, I just don't find any real pleasure in the 3D games nowadays.

My two cents? I hardly like the DS. I just got one, it takes a while to get used to it. As a matter of fact, I still haven't got used to it.

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? @_@

I am stuck with my Nomad as well. IMHO the best portable game console ever. (Schedule? Movie player? 3D Graphics? My old Laptop can do that much better and still has a bigger screen :evil: )

So: May the PSP be whatever you want to make it. Yup. I once wanted one, simply because I am (as I can deduct from another post) that kind of strange "odd-man-out" guy who collects portables and has almost all portable stuff (except of the Game.com that just doesn't catch my attention- yet) but a PSP definatly is NOT on my priority Top Ten. I will sooner or later have one, but not today my friends :D

I find a little hard to read all the opinions. I respect all of them but I don't share some of them.
You want to start a Flamewar? Go ahead, Make my day. I don't find any pleasure in the sight of two suppossely grown up and mature users tearing each other appart, but I cannot stop it either. I am not a moderator :P
You want to close it because you don't like the topic? Simply: read the title, don't you like it, DON'T YOU READ IT EINSTEIN :smash:

Anyway I am getting lost in all this nonsense. I just want to sleep -_-

Remember:
The believer does not need proofs. The esceptical will never get enough.

[FurinkanianFrood]

I just find the idea that Nintendo is dying far fetched for the time being.

If you enjoy debating it that's cool. Sorry I flew off the handle. I don't have any desire to see these threads locked, I just can't figure out why they show up.

Everything is speculation about the Rev. All signs point to Nintendo's continued existence.

Dan explained it all beautifully.

I guess I am just sick of hearing about the death of N because.

1. Some people outside DP actually use it as an excuse to favor N's competitors products (I've run into these people mind you.)
2. I have never heard a rational argument that points to an imminent crisis for Nintendo.

There are legitimate discussions to be had about the future of Nintendo. All of the hyperbole about how they are dying is what ticks me off.

When will their market share stop falling is a valid question indeed.

It's been said further up, but let's not forget about the new Zelda. That will sell. Like hell if it won't. Zelda + Backwards compatible Revolution seems like an interesting combo don't you think? And they did say it was back-comp.

There is a limit to how far N will push things I think.

They aren't housed in a mental institution last itme I checked. Then again, they may be unwilling to give up on their dreams of innovation, no matter how mad they seem.

If that's the case I will just hate their competitors even more for killing off their dreams, and mine.

I'm proud to be a fanboy. I am not a N fanboy, as I said.

I am a fan of game companies and a hater of companies that destroy them.

Nintendo may die someday, but they will put up much more of a fight then some peopl suggest.

There is hope. Why do people try to crush it?

If I didn't feel the same fears as the guy who started this thread I wouldn't be so ticked off, would I?

Anti-Nintendo propaganda/FUD sucks. Theres no way around that.

[FurinkanianFrood]

Sorry about the double, it wouldn't let me edit, and I had a few more things to say.

If you look at the posts above my first one in this thread, there is a load of BS.

These are some of the things that prompted the response I gave, along with explanation.

1. The DS has already lost. Speculation treated as fact. (read the post above mine carefully mind you, they aren't as blunt as mine). Go PalmOS!!
2. Foregone conclusion. Someone said that N's death isn't speculation and that it is a foregone conclusion. WTF.
3. Anyone can see that they keep making the same games over and over, eh? Who doesn't? (I know there are good answers but that's a rhetorical question, and those type devs have little influence on mainstream sales) It wasn't Nintendo that truly pushed the industry in that direction IMO.

Truly innovative companies get the shaft year after year. Why shouldn't I be upset when people contribute to this?

Technosoft made Herzog Zwei before all the companies that use RTS games as personal mintsmade theirs. What did they get other than jack shit.

People are entitled to their opinions, but I have the right to get irritated when I feel that they are trolling/contributing to the lack of appreciation for games made for gamers.

Only in very rare cases do I actually want any threads etc. locked.

In closing, I get upset because I don't like seeing trolls spread FUD all over these boards.

I don't censor trolls. I just feed them till they (I?) explode.



Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console


You have a good point there Dan. To be honest I refused to touch the thing until it was like $20 used somewhere.

I only own 3 N64 games to this day. (Mario 64, Zelda:OOT, and Paper Mario for those curious)

And yet people accuse the Jag of having no games. Compared to some systems it has a lot IMO.

The SMS was better than the NES IMO, and the SNES is my least favorite system of that gen (I like Genny and PCE better). Not that those were bad systems.

I don't have many Gamecube games. I was annoyed by the pacing of Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, etc. I had trouble coming to terms with Metroid in 3D. None of them are bad games by any stretch of the imagination though.

Some need to look harder at the alternative before they harp on Nintendo.

Even if the DS fails it doesn't necessarily mean the PSP is gold.

I like speculation. I don't like "we're all freakin' doomed."

And as for your concerns about the DS Dan, I'm just wondering which games you have tried so far. I haven't bought one myself. I like Warioware but I'm not buying the system for it.

Over time things may improve quite a bit.

The PSP hasn't exactly set the US market on fire yet. Here's hoping for some nice games in the pipeline.

If portables are going to be as expensive as Sony wnats them to be it's time to get the NGPC, Lynx etc. I've
always wanted.



Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.


I am hysterical. However, please notice that you speculate about the Revolution and then say it isn't speculation. Vague hints are not facts.

Don't assume market share is the main issue. Money is. When I see evidence N is going insolvent I'll stop complaining about this.

And if I live in a dreamworld, at least I have enough hope to dream of a world where gaming isn't being murdered by Sony. Why are there so many people into the retro stuff soem may ask?

Gaming for gamers is dying. The great systems of the past are immortal.

If the PS3 defies my expectations and Sony does not make a fatal error, you may be correct about the N.

The Genny was a huge success, and the Saturn (sadly) bombed in the US.

Too many assumption are being made.

If things keep going down this path there will be a reckoning. Another crash is possible.

Everyone thinks I'm barking mad, but Sony's hubris could crush the industry some day.



Now I am stuck with the Saturn


I'm really stuck on it myself. Best system ever IMHO.



I In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl

Unlike some end it now people, I didn't really mean for the topic to end. Just end the BS about imminence (of N's demise, not theologically speaking) being a foregone conclusion. I won't let this topic die either bwahahaha!! I like your style actually.....

This topic can live until the matter is settled, which if I have my way will be never.

It's like the freakin' Highlanda dude. Nintendo is fo eva. A kind of magic or a prince of the universe even....

[portnoyd]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?

This thread is not awesome.

dave

[MegaDrive20XX]

What does this thread teach us?

1. Never, oh never. Talk shit about Nintendo to a pack of hungry wolves who may end up naming their first born child after a Nintendo character probably.

2. Especially at DP.

3. You will end up with verbal scars for the rest of your experience here at DP.

And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits. Sega didn't die, they just got some freakin smarts and knew when the shit was too deep to handle. That's why they were called "The Rodney Dangerfield" of the game industry, we get no respect! Yet went out peacefully and quietly...with a "nice" debt behind it...which has been sloved for some time now.

[FurinkanianFrood]

[insert arguments against Stop this crap now posts]


While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?


Which is why I said it was crap (the origins and such). Goatdan did a nice job of saving the thread IMO. There are things to discuss that are relevant.... However, all the arguments have been made.

In the end, it just depends on what happens in the future.

I do worry about such things obviously, but no one knows what will happen. It's just that I worry about how console companies success/lack thereof impacts game development.

Of course, the real problem is that mainstream consumers have awful taste in games. I just can't shake the pattern (which to me looks plain as day) that appears to connect Sony systems with substandard games and even more with a distinct lack of truly great ones IMO.

I think it's really a matter of preferring a level of simplicity and elegance that the mainstream no longer values.

It's the continuation of a slow degeneration that has been inevitable since the crash, even if this could not be fully foreseen.
Games just become less and less like they once were. There is no TEH DOOM to make a TEH DOO about of course.

Newer Nintendo systems are still good, but as games move in certain directions they lack something intangible that bothers me. Even if I can't find a flaw in a newer game, something is there mocking me.

As much as I love the DC, DC games don't have the feel of Saturn games.

The main issue I have probably just stems from my preference for 2D games. Also, I much prefer 3D games with simpler, more intuitive controls. I don't like having to use too many buttons (there are some cases where it works, but not all that often) and I don't like using 2 analog sticks, ever (unless there is a damn good reason, and that doesn't save anything on PS/PS2 because those sticks are horrible IMO, whether one or both are used).



And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits.


They had no other way out of course. I still buy Sega games regularly as long as they are on a system worth owning.

I think ya know what I mean by that. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.....
I still need to buy Spikeout from somewhere, ack.....



This thread is not awesome.


What are you talking about? it pwns d00d

This thread needs to stop. Let's let it die and start a new one for real discussion about N's future if we so desire, kay?

The way a thread starts determines it's future. "OMFG Nintnedoo is croking" just leads to a thread that will keep getting turned back into a mess any time someone decides they want it to revert back to how it started.

Don't make me get started with the downward spiral (media convergence/increased costs passed on to consumer/lack of viable development/ consumer disalllusionment/etc.) leading to second crash crackpot theory here.

Beware the crash of '06!! Bwah.. forget it.

This thread isn't even worth parodying anymore. (It never was.... but I'm really tired and bored)

[Amy Rose]

I've never bothered posting in one of these threads before, and I haven't read it the whole way through either, because I have one of those new fangled 5 second attention spans. SO. Here is my 2 cents based on snippets of text that caught my eye.

1. Holy shit, there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys here.

2. the PSP and DS both do nothing for me right now, BUT how the shit can you judge systems so early on in their life? No games out currently interest me besides the Sega one and the Yoshi one, and those only because I've been a Sega and Yoshi fan for a long time now. Wait 6 months, then maybe, just maybe, you'll be justified in trashing the DS.

3. Whoever said the N64 was a waste of money/had a handful of good games... I agree. The only game I had for my N64 for over TWO YEARS was Zelda: OoT, once again an old franchise. Damn, I love that game. Later on I got Majora's Mask and Yoshi's Story.

4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

5. Now I know why I don't come into threads like this :P

Interesting point before submitting: I bought my brother a DS recently, and I have a strange feeling that I might have to buy him some GBA games to go with it instead of the great DS games I was hoping for. Sigh. I really wish Nintendo would stop disappointing me.

[Ernster]

I cant believe there are people who think the N64 was a waste and only has a few good games.....have you played the bloody thing @_@

[Push Upstairs]

4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

Although i have seen worse (much worse), this i believe to be true.

I always get the feeling its "okay" to bash Sony and Microsoft because people don't consider them REAL video game companies. Like somehow the big bad companies are taking some mild interest in the next "big money making business" and that at a moments notice are going to lose interest and quit.

Yet somehow because Nintendo has been making games for many years they are "cool" because they are the last game company and that somehow anything they crank out is "keepin' it real" for all the video gamers in the world.

Nintendo is just as likely to screw up just like everyone seems to pray MS and Sony will. :roll:

[Algol]

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.

[spider-man]

I would like to also put my 2 cents in. Nintendo won't be going anywhere for a good number of years (at least 10). The problem is though, imo, (I don't know if someone already stated this) that most of the sales for games on nintendo systems are from nintendo games (similar to what happened to sega). Yes third party should make better games, but when they do and still get crapped on the buying public, what motivation is there to continue making games for that particular console (or not going the multi-console route). If I remember correctly, RE 4 completely bombed in the US (it should be interesting to see how the sales are for the ps2). The n64 and GC had strong starts, but slowly fizzled (game selection/shelf space in the stores (gives the perception to the buyer to avoid that "crappy" system)) out. If the DS doesn't come out with More games that really put the touchscreen to good use (such as: Ganbare Goemon: Toukai Douchuu), it may end up like the virtual boy. Also, the typical consumer wants better graphics rather than (unforunately) better innovation. With the release of the PSP and the upcoming next gen systems, this will hopefully increase nintendo's drive to succeed, which will in turn afftect other companies (thus making them more competitive=better games).

[Archenemy]

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.Yeah, whatever, you didn't even quote me correctly :roll: Let's talk about someone who jumps into a thread and adds nothing to it in order to earn more meseta...

As far as I can remember, I NEVER EVER wrote I wanted a GBC. I do own all GB (Original GB, GB Pocket, Japanese GB Light, GBC, Pokemon GBC, GBA) and I NEVER said I wanted to play ONLY GBC- I said that the DS ONLY played GBA.

You have to either buy new glasses or learn to read and comprehend before posting- or even better, to refrain making such aggresive comments against sombody who was adding a point about the issue instead of jumping out of the blue and pointing something that does not have ANYTHING to do with the thread.

BTW PS2,XboX, don't hate them. I just don't like the mainstream games nowadays as someone just told before. x_x

I sense that the common mainstream games are just lacking the refinement of the old days- PLEASE NOTICE: I did say SENSE, I don't have any real basis to debate, so please save all of us of the harassment of trying to debate my poor point of view as it cannot be defended, ok? :hmm:

[Promophile]

sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

[ozyr]

sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

Welcome to Fanboy land (and I mean that toward all systems, not just Nintendo). I'm sick of this too - which is why I'm making a post here without sticking to the dumb subject.

[lendelin]

sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

Welcome to Fanboy land (and I mean that toward all systems, not just Nintendo). I'm sick of this too - which is why I'm making a post here without sticking to the dumb subject.

The topic isn't dumb, teenage fanboybabble coupled with ignoring reality is.

I know, I know, some guys really want N to survive, and it will...not as a major player in the traditional console business, but in a niche market in the game industry. How else could this statement by Iwata interpreted: "We don't try to compete with Sony and Microsoft for the next generation of consoles."

If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

[Teo]

can't wait bring it on.

[goatdan]

Come on people... do we really need all the crap? I'm not saying all of it is crap, but I've had enough of this "posting to get another 10 meseta" crap that seems to be going on. If all you're going to say is "Why should we talk about this?" then DON'T talk about it. It isn't worth the 10 meseta you get to say that.

Now, onwards...


And as for your concerns about the DS Dan, I'm just wondering which games you have tried so far. I haven't bought one myself. I like Warioware but I'm not buying the system for it.

I've played or watched someone play Feel the Magic, WarioWare, the Metroid demo, Ridge Racer, Tiger Woods, Mario 64, Polarium and at least one other I'm forgetting. So far...

Meh. Metroid looks awesome, but it isn't out yet. Polarium seems to be rather fun, but why the stupid gray color scheme?

The biggest problem that I have with the DS, as I've noted before, is that the obvious games for a system like it that should've been brought out the day it was released are still not out. How about a game of a bunch of card games like solitaire? How about a game like Jawbreaker? How about a new Tetris?

Nintendo has _really_ dropped the ball with the DS, and it isn't just because of the Palm OS business.


Over time things may improve quite a bit.

Over time, it will... but Nintendo needed to have these games out a few months ago, and we're still waiting. Finally, some games are coming out. If I'm not mistaken, the PSP has more titles already released for it. That's horrible.


The PSP hasn't exactly set the US market on fire yet. Here's hoping for some nice games in the pipeline.

The PSP above all else needs some games that are more of the portable type for it to really catch on. It is a great looking system with some interesting games, but right now I don't see much of a reason to get one... most of the games are the same sort you could play on the PS2, and aren't meant for short blips of gaming. Hopefully, that will change.

There are some really innovative titles out for it right now though. Mercury alone makes me want to purchase the system. But there isn't enough really truly A-list titles, and if Sony can get more out before Nintendo gets DS titles out, they'll be in the drivers seat.


1. Holy shit, there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys here.

There are an equal number of Sony fanboys here too. And Sega fanboys. It is just that it seems that Sony fanboys don't pipe up as loudly as Nintendo ones do.

Luckily, there are a lot of people on these boards though that are pretty much right down the middle... we just care about the games and / or are interested by the industry.


2. the PSP and DS both do nothing for me right now, BUT how the shit can you judge systems so early on in their life? (snip...) Wait 6 months, then maybe, just maybe, you'll be justified in trashing the DS.

The DS has had its chance already. A system that sells as many consoles at the DS did as quickly as it did needs to have something backing it up, and it doesn't. DS trashing is deserved at this stage, however saying that the DS isn't a player because the PSP PWNS ITZ AZZ is crazy. If two systems are released that have both sold 3 million consoles, it sounds like there are solid sales on both of them. Hell, 3 million consoles of anything sold is a success.

The DS is a success. It just doesn't have crap to back it up yet.


4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok.

The PS2 doesn't suck, and you'll never catch me saying that. If anything, the PS2 just appears that it has more crap because it has a lot more stuff coming out for it. As odd as this may sound, Nintendo would be in a much better place if they could get half the crap that comes out on the PS2 to come out on the GameCube too...


I cant believe there are people who think the N64 was a waste and only has a few good games.....have you played the bloody thing @_@

Yes. It wasn't a waste because of the games that came out for it, but because of the games that didn't come out for it that got me to buy the system in the first place. I'm still waiting for Earthbound 64.


I always get the feeling its "okay" to bash Sony and Microsoft because people don't consider them REAL video game companies. Like somehow the big bad companies are taking some mild interest in the next "big money making business" and that at a moments notice are going to lose interest and quit.

The difference, and why it is easier to bash Sony or Microsoft is that they don't have a game development history like Nintendo does. The big franchises for their systems are games they didn't make (Bungie, being a second party, is close but not quite...). Nintendo is intertwined with Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong and all that stuff so if they were to actually go out of business, those properties could potentially disappear. If either Microsoft or Sony leave the game, Halo and GTA will still come out for some system.

I'm not saying it is right to believe that (see: Sonic, present day), but that is where it comes from.

On the other hand, Sega doesn't get as quirky as when they had their own hardware. I don't see a second Seaman coming out any time soon. I don't see Sega taking the risks to get something noticed when they don't have hardware on the line. Then again, until the Revolution I really haven't seen Nintendo take many risks period, and who knows if that will come with the Revolution or not.


The problem is though, imo, (I don't know if someone already stated this) that most of the sales for games on nintendo systems are from nintendo games (similar to what happened to sega).

Exactly -- which is good for Nintendo but leaves third parties (and eventually, consumers) out in the cold.


If I remember correctly, RE 4 completely bombed in the US (it should be interesting to see how the sales are for the ps2).

Actually, that's not true. RE4 did really, really good for a GameCube title. As has also been noted before, Viewtiful Joe sold more copies on the GameCube than the PS2.

But the potential to sell more copies on the PS2 is definitely there.


The n64 and GC had strong starts, but slowly fizzled (game selection/shelf space in the stores (gives the perception to the buyer to avoid that "crappy" system)) out.

I wouldn't say the GameCube had a strong start. What killer app was out for it? Luigi's Mansion? The GameCube didn't start having anything decent for it for a while, which coupled with the fact that you were only buying it for games killed its start and led to the fizzling that we are continuing to witness now. Sony had the DVD player that saved them when the killer apps weren't ready for launch. The GameCube couldn't even play CDs.


If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

I definitely think it could spell the niche market, and if that's the case, that's fine... but just because a system isn't powerful doesn't mean it will lose. As I've pointed out, the less-powerful systems almost always win each round -- because they get games people want.

And... just to keep the tone of this thread the same...

+1

[Howie6925]

http://images.urbandictionary.com/view/large/4228.jpg
LOL

[lendelin]

If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

I definitely think it could spell the niche market, and if that's the case, that's fine... but just because a system isn't powerful doesn't mean it will lose. As I've pointed out, the less-powerful systems almost always win each round -- because they get games people want.


Hardware specs aren't the only factors to decide the competition, I agree, otherwise the N64 would have won against the PS1, and there are lots of other examples.

This time it is different. Imagine the president of SCEA or Microsoft saying that they don't try to compete with Nintendo for the next console generation, and then referring to non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games based on changed leisure time activities (Internet); and all of this PR-talk is euphemistically presented in an "innovation" package.

These statements just don't make sense. The bestsellers of the GC aren't short, simple, and graphically inferior games: the two Metroid Primes, Resident Evil 4, Wind Waker, or the more recent Star Fox Assault or Baten Kaitos. The Mario Party series is a good seller, and this is the direction where N is heading, and will limit istelf for its franchises; and neither are bestsellers of the other consoles short and simple games with low development costs.

If a developer like EA with huge bestsellers like Madden and other developers with smash hits look at a clearly graphically inferior console (I regard todays 3 consoles at about the same level), do you think they will even care about getting the same game out for the next GC? Even the tentative name 'Revolution' spells a departure from the traditional consoles. (with a positive PR-spin, of course)

Graphics and hardware abilities are not shallow, they are part of the game-experience, they ARE gameplay; graphics are impressive, not only for the casual gamer, but for the frequent gamer as well, now and in the past. I think we were all impressed by the SNES graphics and sound when we watched and heard little Link walking in water and saw the raindrops; back then N announced and hyped the incredible graphics power of the new console, and they did so with every new console. This time they emphasize that power isn't important anymore. Gamers want supposedly something different.

We can see what gamers want looking at sales figures. I don't think RE4 was rejected by gamers because of its inferior graphics; and N didn't pay Capcom money for the exclusive rights for RE because they believed gamers want short and simple games and are not impressed by graphics.

The trend of successful games is in stark contrast what N announced and emphasized. It is in stark contrast to reality. They call it a 'revolution', I call it an economic necessity because they are not competitive anymore. They decided to go this route, and the prospect of success is dim at a time with rising development costs for games and more and more graphically impressive and complex games.

[goatdan]

This time it is different. Imagine the president of SCEA or Microsoft saying that they don't try to compete with Nintendo for the next console generation, and then referring to non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games based on changed leisure time activities (Internet); and all of this PR-talk is euphemistically presented in an "innovation" package.

These statements just don't make sense. The bestsellers of the GC aren't short, simple, and graphically inferior games: the two Metroid Primes, Resident Evil 4, Wind Waker, or the more recent Star Fox Assault or Baten Kaitos. The Mario Party series is a good seller, and this is the direction where N is heading, and will limit istelf for its franchises; and neither are bestsellers of the other consoles short and simple games with low development costs.

Personally, I don't want to pass judgement until we see it. I agree that a bunch of Mario Party-like (and WarioWare for that matter) games is not what I want, but I never trust the early news for anything more than hype. Maybe Nintendo will roll out something that will really rock my socks, and this new thing will make me want to play.

I wanted to own a GameCube for the longest time mostly because of Super Monkey Ball, which is a game that you just use the control stick for. Perhaps it is games more like that - where they are still a decent length but they can be picked up, played for ten minutes and put down - that Nintendo means. If that is it, I'm on board with that idea because my free time amounts to sitting down to sessions of ten or fifteen minutes of gaming at a time. I don't want to have to sit through 10 minutes of cutscenes to play two minutes and then not be able to save.

I'll reserve judgement until release. That having been said, I agree with you that so far, the future doesn't look so bright for the next incarnation. I can't wait for the end of the month to actually know more about all of the systems and see if Nintendo is just blowing smoke or if they actually mean what they are saying about the Revolution.

And even if Nintendo means what they say about the Revolution and it does just what I said above, I don't know if that will be enough to get them out of the niche they are in. I like my Xbox because I use it as a DVD player too. And music deposit. My Xbox gets a lot more use because of these extra features, so in the end it is a better value. Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things. If Nintendo sits out the "multi-function machine" round again, then they have to go for the niche because they can never hope to be more than the "second" game machine someone owns.

[PDorr3]

My DS is collecting dust, but it will be revived later on when the "good" games come out, its a shame titles like animal crossing and mario kart could not have been launch titles. It is true that the psp is a strong competitor for nintendo ds, I am highly satisfied with it and believe the psp has had one of the strongest launch lineups in recent memory...

[calthaer]

I will add something else:

Nintendo needs to have Wonder Spots so that people with DSes and GBA / Wireless Adapters can go to stores or malls or places to do cool things with their games.

[Doonzmore]

ACCLAIM WILL RETURN AND DOMINATE THE CONSOLE REALM WITH ITS OWN BEAST!

[XxMe2NiKxX]

And, of course, everyone forgets about the innevitable dreamcast 2. =)

[FurinkanianFrood]

there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2

That's an opinion. In my opinion it most certainly does not.

Why can't someone bash Sony if they feel that Sony is rotten? Is this China? Is this some fascist bizarro-land?

Why should I pretend I think that their products (not just video game related BTW) are decent when most of what I have seen points in the other direction?

Every other damn day someone has to start this up again by putting down Nintendo, Atari, etc.

So it's OK for people to trash N but as soon as I trash Sony those same folks get all bent out of shape?

It's OK when Sony fans do it huh?

The double standard gets rather ridiculous.



where they are still a decent length but they can be picked up, played for ten minutes and put down - that Nintendo means


I thought it was rather clear that is their eventual goal (or I assumed it was.... yikes...).
And sometimes short games aren't bad. There have just been too many lately.



Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things.


I don't want added value beyond gaming if it costs much extra. I care about the games. Besides, at some point those features may be a liability. That way of doing things only had a huge impact once (PS2+DVD playback). Overkill may be their downfall.

I buy game machines for gaming alone.

If Sony and Microsoft both go too far with that N will be in their best position since before Sony got involved in the first place.

Added "value"=added cost=waste of my money.

That is why MS put the DVD playback licensing fee in the cost of the remote and not the console.



graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes


All of those sentiments are mirrored almost exactly in my own opinions about the direction games have taken in recent years.

Nintendo knows exactly what is wrong with games, and they intend to fix it at any price. They are not alone in not wanting to sell out. Neither am I. I don't even know why I bother saying the things I do. Am I just talking to the same brick walls that N's comments bounce off of?



non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games


Those are the wishes of gamers. That is who Nintendo is talking to.

People who miss games that were games and had no pretense of being anything else. I miss the abstraction and simplicity of the golden age. I am not alone. We may be a dying breed, but we will never be won over to the darkside.

Gameplayers these days are seldom gamers.

They may never be #1 again, but they aren't going anywhere soon.

Sony looks to be screwing up much worse based on the information I have seen.

I believe that when the dust settles and the market returns to 2 consoles, Sony may not be there.

Their mistakes with the PS3 are clear to those willing to see them. Those mistakes may not topple them, but they are blatant nonetheless.

When a thread like this gets started, maybe it would be a good idea to extract the legitimate part of the discussion and make a new thread from it?

The earlier posts in a thread like this will keep drawing fire no matter what efforts are made to get it back on track it seems. What starts as OMFG it can't escape it entirely.

I need to stop the reactive counter-trolling I suppose, but I don't like to see that kind of rot go unopposed.



I don't want to have to sit through 10 minutes of cutscenes to play two minutes and then not be able to save.


That doesn't sound at all like Nintendo to me. That sounds like some of the games on PS/PS2 that I found utterly pointless.

To be honest, I can see that Nintendo has gone downhill somewhat. Sony looks like it's near a precipice to me. M$ could go anywhere from here (but most likely up IMO, at least in terms of market share, the games may go downhill).

Personally I like the added features of the XBOX btw. It's really just a matter of how such are implemented. Sony seems like they may be a little daft in that respect.

The Gamecube does have a relatively weak library, historically speaking, but not one I would call excessively so.

I was sold on it at launch because of SMBall personally.

[thegreatescape]

So it's OK for people to trash N but as soon as I trash Sony those same folks get all bent out of shape?

Thats all you ever do though >_<
And Nintendo already "sold out", they just didnt do a good job of it; A yearly update to Mario Party, Mario kart on every console, Mario 64ds, a squillion zeldas, et al.

i thought this thread was dead >_>

[hydr0x]

Mario kart on every console

omfg, they released the best multiplayer racing game on every new system with heavily improved graphics, how dare they, bastards

i can't even express how ridiculous such a statement is

[thegreatescape]

your right i cant live without teh gr4ph1cZ!!!!!!1one

[kainemaxwell]

Mario kart on every console

omfg, they released the best multiplayer racing game on every new system with heavily improved graphics, how dare they, bastards

i can't even express how ridiculous such a statement is
How dare a company try to make money on a popular game series. For shame, Nintendo!!11 LOL

[Promophile]

Nintendo diserves to die for not released Earthbound 0+1 stateside! Bastards.

[lurpak]

Havnt read the whole of this thread, but within the first page, gemini pheonix made some points bsed on his opinions and from then on he was flamed..

I suspect in frustration he has probably bounced back a few arguments with the people that jumped on him, and whos right or wrong in them cases I dont realy care.

if you dont like hearing other people opinions go and talk to a mirror, you self richeous fools, dont join a frigging forum

his opinion was that nintendo might suffer a bad console release..

none of you have access to nintendos sales figure vs cost analysis so his opinion is as valid as yours.

by all means disagree but dont be such jerks about it.

[Avatard]

This board is filled with necromacers it seems......bringing dead topics back to life.

[goatdan]

Nintendo diserves to die for not released Earthbound 0+1 stateside! Bastards.

They still might release that over here... I wouldn't doubt that it will happen. Localization of that set would take a lot of time though...

[petewhitley]

People who miss games that were games and had no pretense of being anything else. I miss the abstraction and simplicity of the golden age. I am not alone. We may be a dying breed, but we will never be won over to the darkside.

Gameplayers these days are seldom gamers.

This is a pathetic, arbitrary distinction made by internet fanboys across the world, and it needs to die. I'm so sick of hearing this holier-than-thou drivel coming out of the mouth of every 16 year old to get his hands on an NES. (Not to imply that describes this poster in particular, but you get the idea).

[Push Upstairs]

I'm so sick of hearing this holier-than-thou drivel coming out of the mouth of every 16 year old to get his hands on an NES.

The best ones are those that think that old = always great.


"Do0d! Total Recall on the NES? That movie was sweet!"

[Daniel Thomas]

Well, that distinction is probably more of an age thing, the product of 30-somethings who grew up on videogames of the '70s and '80s.

It's a part of life, really. Nothing is as good as it was 20 or 30 years ago. The country's always going to hell in a handbasket. The kids are always dumber than they were in the good 'ol days. Usually by the time you start talking like this, you get to wear pants up to your neck and watch Matlock reruns.

Matlock!!

[SuperNES]

yes, and everybody look for the new atari 128000 in stores next june!


http://www.maj.com/gallery/Nuhvok-2000/FunnyStuff/untitled.gif

x_x

[goatdan]

Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things.


I don't want added value beyond gaming if it costs much extra. I care about the games. Besides, at some point those features may be a liability. That way of doing things only had a huge impact once (PS2+DVD playback). Overkill may be their downfall.

I buy game machines for gaming alone.

If Sony and Microsoft both go too far with that N will be in their best position since before Sony got involved in the first place.

Added "value"=added cost=waste of my money.

That is why MS put the DVD playback licensing fee in the cost of the remote and not the console.

You though are relatively alone on this statement. The market has proved that more features is what people want in their game systems for a relatively similar price. Personally, I got an Xbox even though I was more interested by the GameCube line up because I could store and play music off the hard drive, and get a remote to watch DVDs with. Those features sold me.

The fact that the GameCube is in third place means that I think you're in the minority here. And with the next generation of consoles -- with the exception of Nintendo who has already declared that they won't be competing -- the features are only going to become more and more important. Nintendo is going to have to battle to prove that a no-featured console is something people want. It will be an uphill battle.

[lendelin]

FurinkanianFrood, could you do me a favor and stop this fanboy talk?

If you don't like double standards, don't produce them yourself. If you don't like black-and-white pictures, don't produce them yourself. If you don't like trashing a system w/o even the slightest common sense, don't do it yourself.

If you don't like fanboys, don't be one.

To post messages like yours on this board only - and only - gets you rolling eyes. You won't be taken seriously. There are way too many board members on here who are very experienced and knowleadgeable gamers, and their game experience didn't start with the PS1 either.

[grayrobertos]

How would you become motivated enough to want to down talk another gaming company in a thread? I just don't get it. What did you expect to happen when you posted this thread?

[lendelin]

misunderstanding

[zektor]

Damn, this thread is longer than it should be. I read the first 2 pages...

With that in mind, I don't see Nintendo loosing any ground anytime soon. I own a PSP, and I love it of course. I also own a DS, and I love it too. It has a different feel and different type of game to it that I like. I guess it's a Nintendo thing, and that is just the thing that appeals to others I'm sure.

Let's not even consider talking about the demise of companies that brought us to where we are today. If it happens someday, so be it. Let us just enjoy our consoles, and the fact that there are 3 big players in the videogame domain. Makes for good competition, and moreover, tons of games! I actually wish MORE companies would jump on the bandwagon....I would love to see tons of variety when it comes to game systems.

[GamerNerd]

Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

[TheRedEye]

Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

I think Zektor should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead for a month.

[Xizer]

Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

[badinsults]

Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

I think Zektor should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead for a month.

I think Xizer should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead half a year.


lol

[sisko]

Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

This is a valid point.

I don't know how portable sales are going over in Europe, but at my particular store, PSP sales are horrendously down, while DS sales are steadily climbing.

We've sold ONE PSP Gigapack in the two weeks that we have had them, no standard packs, and no value packs over the past 2 months. We also have 3-4 systems traded in per week.

Likewise, we have about 5 DSes per week go out the door each week, and only one has been traded in for the past two months.

[suckerpunch5]

Yeah, I saw this is an interesting and entertaining bump. Obviously, the DS wan't the corporation killer everyone thought it would be. But, obviously, the verdict isn't in yet.

(off to play Mario Kart DS online. . .)

[Avatard]

There is already a thread about current sales comparisons of the PSP and DS. Find it because I won't, I just don't care.

[Cmtz]

DS ROCKS! That's all I will say.

By the way I do have a PSP and some games.

[njiska]

There is already a thread about current sales comparisons of the PSP and DS. Find it because I won't, I just don't care.

DS Vs. PSP Ownage has already been brought back to life and is hanging around the top.

[esquire]

DS games outnumber PSP games in my collection 23 to 2 (Lumines & Mercury). It wasn't until recently that there have been any PSP games to spark my interest. With the advent of rpgs on the PSP, I may have to start building up my collection.

But in case anyone hasn't caught on, there seems to be a trend with a new consoles. (See any XBOX 360 thread on launch games). Each new console is limited with launch releases, and it takes time to develop new games based upon the new technology - whether its a DS, PSP, 360 or whatever.

As for the original post way back, I think the DS was never meant to be anything else than what it is. It is not the next Gameboy, and never was meant to be. A waste? Hell No! Try telling us that now after playing Advance Wars Dual Strike, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow, or Mario Kart DS.

If you ask me, the Micro is more of a waste. Sure its more compact and a better screen, but why now? We have already gone through the GBA, GBA SP and DS, all of which play GBA games, and now were espected to shell out another $100? Moreover, they redesign the GBA SP with the same screen technology as the Micro! All I know is wherever I go, I see boxes upon boxes of the Micro sitting on the shelves.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~ The PSP is a completely new venture for Sony, andthey still need to get a few more games released for it. Give it another few months, and a few more releases, and we'll review the situation...

[sisko]

Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

A) Again, I'm not sure about the European side of things, but there is absolutely NO shortage of PSPs in the US. Every store I walk into has at least a dozen units and a handful of Gigapacks, and used shops have several preowned units.

B) A few weeks? The PSP launched in March in the US, and I believe April in Europe. Thats 8 months (or 7), far more than a few weeks.

[Lothars]

Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~ The PSP is a completely new venture for Sony, andthey still need to get a few more games released for it. Give it another few months, and a few more releases, and we'll review the situation...


Well even though it's half the price there's not really many games on the PSP that are must haves

I mean lumanies(sp?) GTA, probaly some others but I just picked up a DS recently and I love it

I will eventually get a PSP but at the moment there's still nothing that's just convincing me to get it.

but to say the DS is a failing is completely wrong look at the games that are being released for it.

they are awesome some really amazing games

for example Phoenix Wright and Tramua Center

both amazing games.

but we will see.

[Lothars]

If you ask me, the Micro is more of a waste. Sure its more compact and a better screen, but why now? We have already gone through the GBA, GBA SP and DS, all of which play GBA games, and now were espected to shell out another $100? Moreover, they redesign the GBA SP with the same screen technology as the Micro! All I know is wherever I go, I see boxes upon boxes of the Micro sitting on the shelves.

I agree 100% with this

I think the Micro is a waste as well, it's really nothing that should have been released but that's my opinion :)

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Well the PSP Gigapacks have just been released here, and are limited to one per customer. The Value packs are not currently available apparently. Most stores that do have the PSP's are selling them as bundles only, as they did with the PStwo and crystal Xbox last year.

The Micro was made because they could make it. The same as why the PStwo exists. Technology has changed, and they can make the consoles smaller, so they did. After all, there was no real reason to make the Mega Drive smaller, but they did so because they could do.

[Cmtz]

[quote=Xizer]
Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~

That's why the Gameboy micro has sold over 300,000 systems?

[Gemini-Phoenix]

What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying teh Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.

[grayrobertos]

What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying the Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.

I have never seen you post anything that, I could either agree with or at least see that you had some kind of point that at least made some sense. This post continues the trend.

[dbiersdorf]

Pheonix have you actually played the DS, and any of it's games? You sound like a blatenet fanboy with no knowledge of the opposing system. The DS stated off slow, with little use of the touch screen. Let me say this, tell me one other system that can play Kirby Canvus Curse. How about Yoshi Touch & Go? Nintendogs? Castlevania? Maybe Meteos? Or even Trauma Center?

If you think the games aren't utilizing the touch screen, then you are a complete moron, and that's all there is to be said about it.


(ohh btw, the DS still leads the PSP in overall sales, not only by fact with weekly japan reports, but with sony holding back ndp numbers in the us is further indication the system is lacking, so tell me, where's nintendo going?)

[Animerforever05]

What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying the Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS. stf* and get banned troll! :evil: :angry:

[sisko]

If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen.

Ah... so it is an anti fanboy. Wildly fabricating facts in order to support his poorly informed position.

This statement is HORRIBLY incorrect. ALL DS games make use of BOTH screens. If I'm wrong...prove it, and I'll be the first one to acknowledge my error.

The only games that use ONE screen are the GBA games. You know, the ones only designed for ONE screen.