Generation NEX: NES micro-clone from Messiah [Archive] - Page 3

Emily

06-02-2005, 03:38 PM

Do you have to pre-order them if you want to pick it up at CGE? :embarrassed:
Im going to get my little sister one. I hate having to go over to my moms house to fuck around with her system, knowing there is a slim chance it will work.
I know, I know; the NES is easy to get working if you know what your doing, blah, blah, blah....

Since I found a cheap top-loader, I have no patience for finicky NESs.My sister wants me to get her one but Im too cheap, so Ill get her one of these instead!
The NEX is beutifull in comparison to other clones.I may get me one too...

Jagasian

06-02-2005, 06:53 PM

Graham Mitchell

06-02-2005, 08:57 PM

Jagasian

06-02-2005, 10:25 PM

Since I found a cheap top-loader, I have no patience for finicky NESs.My sister wants me to get her one but Im too cheap, so Ill get her one of these instead!
The NEX is beutifull in comparison to other clones.I may get me one too...

If you are willing to put up with inaccurate audio and video, and incompatible games, then why not just use emulation?

Forgive me, but was it announced that the NEX has innacurate audio and video or compatibility problems? I can't find anywhere in the thread where this came up. I thought everybody was all stoked because it's going to actually work...?

Rumors have it that the NEX is based on the Neofami NES-on-a-chip, which has inaccurate audio, video, and lacks support for some games. It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Also, note that the platform support lists "Neofami". This gives further support for the rumor that it uses the inaccurate NES-on-a-chip. I must say that the case looks great, but if it is less accurate than a software emulator... I will make do with my official NES toaster and some cleaning supplies.

Note that there is already a 72-pin version of the Neofami, which supports NES carts and controllers without an adapter. Of course, there is at least one peripherial which the 72-pin Neofami does not support because of the orientation of the controller ports.

ubersaurus

06-02-2005, 10:53 PM

Will it work with the japanese Castlevania 3?

SkiDragon

06-03-2005, 02:27 AM

GarrettCRW

06-03-2005, 02:48 AM

A very specific idea.

This system should have a built in feature that hits reset as you depress the power button, thus getting rid of the problems with the finicky saves in games like Zelda and Final Fantasy.

Don't top loaders and Famicom A/Vs have some way of canceling out the "zapping" phenomena that plagues NES battery-backed games?

chadtower

06-03-2005, 08:53 AM

Rumors have it that the NEX is based on the Neofami NES-on-a-chip, which has inaccurate audio, video, and lacks support for some games. It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Also, note that the platform support lists "Neofami". This gives further support for the rumor that it uses the inaccurate NES-on-a-chip. I must say that the case looks great, but if it is less accurate than a software emulator... I will make do with my official NES toaster and some cleaning supplies.

Seriously. I was one click away from completing a preorder for three of them when I decided to hold back to watch the NeoFami issue play out. If it's not accurate NES, then I'll just go with DC emulation, saves even more space than this would.

Jagasian

06-03-2005, 10:24 AM

Seriously. I was one click away from completing a preorder for three of them when I decided to hold back to watch the NeoFami issue play out. If it's not accurate NES, then I'll just go with DC emulation, saves even more space than this would.

Personally, I am really strict when it comes to accuracy and game compatibility. So I would err in towards more consoles, some nice shelves, a power multiplexer, and an AV multiplexer. Last time I checked the best DC NES emulator didn't even run at full speed. The best emulators on consoles as of now are the Xbox emulators:
http://xport.xbox-scene.com/

You can soft-mod your Xbox these days, due to sophisticated free software hacks, and hence you don't need a mod-chip. You might laugh, but I have used my Xbox more for emulation than for actual Xbox games.

...but again, I prefer the real thing. Even the Xbox NES emulator has A/V inaccuracies and game incompatibilities. I hooked up FCE UltraX (Xbox NES emu) on the same TV as my real NES. I tweaked everything to get the overscan perfect (edges of NES screen is covered up on a TV), and then I would switch back and forth quickly between emulation and NES on the TV, to compare things. Even in Super Mario Bros, there is a noticable difference... something a digital camera could capture, let alone a gamer playing the system.

The best software based NES emulator is Nintendulator, but it only has a PC port as of now. The way these emulators get more accurate is by emulating the NES at a lower and lower level, but this comes at a price. The lower-level the emulation, the more powerful the host system has to be, so Nintendulator needs a pretty beefy PC to run at full speed.

If you read back earlier in this thread
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61589&start=100
I and others talk about an ultra-low-level, that is circuit level emulation based console, which uses a Fully Programmable Gate Array (FPGA) to recreate the circuits of an NES and all of its mappers. Hence you have perfect accuracy and game compatibility, and you can play ROMs off of a flash card. It can also use all of the NES and Famicom peripherials, controllers, ROB, etc. Even better, is that the FPGA can be reconfigured on the fly, so the system can even do circuit-level emulation of other classic consoles of the 8-bit generation or earlier. The only problem is that the guy making it will only sell his console if he can get enough orders. I already offered to buy two :)

Lord Contaminous

06-03-2005, 01:07 PM

Will it work with the japanese Castlevania 3?

I emailed that to question to Messiah themselves already.

They said they're in the process of testing it out.

chadtower

06-03-2005, 01:37 PM

Personally, I am really strict when it comes to accuracy and game compatibility. So I would err in towards more consoles, some nice shelves, a power multiplexer, and an AV multiplexer. Last time I checked the best DC NES emulator didn't even run at full speed. The best emulators on consoles as of now are the Xbox emulators:
http://xport.xbox-scene.com/

I say DC because I do not have nor do I plan on buying an Xbox any time in the near future. I do have a DC.

Jagasian

06-03-2005, 03:11 PM

Can somebody post a list of all of the games that have compatibility problems with the Neofami? I realize that all games have inaccurate audio and video to some degree (some more than others), but I think it is important for people to know which games are unplayable.

Dimitri

06-14-2005, 03:31 AM

I've got a couple questions...one of which has already been asked but apparently unanswered:

Do we have to preorder to get one at CGE? I'm going (bought my ticket...not sure what to do with just the Paypal receipt, though :embarrassed: ) but I'd rather pay for it there than mess around with sending money online.

Will I be able to hook things up to get 4-player support on those select JAPANESE titles that have it? I'm dying to play Kakutou Densetsu or Nekketsu Hockey Bu on something other than my Game Axe, and these games are designed for party play...

Anyway, looks damned nice. Don't really care about S-video, myself...anything at all will look better than the Game Axe's blurry screen...

16-bit

09-14-2005, 03:21 PM

Will it work with the japanese Castlevania 3?

so where are we at on this?

16-bit

09-14-2005, 03:23 PM

If Gamestop carries the Atari Flashback, I don't see why they would not carry this system. I hope it gets good distribution.

Because the Atari Flashback includes games. For legal reasons, the NEX simply cannot. Gamestop no longer sells NES games making them an inadequate channel to sell these consoles. Besides that, the market for this is simply too niche to create a viable B&M distribution strategy. Currently, the company appears to be better off selling these through the much more cost effective internet medium.

Marketing 101 and Supply Chain Management 101....good for something :D

Looks like Gamestop is carrying it after all.

stuffedmonkey

09-14-2005, 03:44 PM

Yeah - Has anybody gotten one and done some cart testing?

DreamTR

09-14-2005, 05:17 PM

I have. It is NOT an NES on a chip, though. It has increased colors and is custom made. Not like the Yobo Clone.

Jagasian

09-14-2005, 09:47 PM

I have. It is NOT an NES on a chip, though. It has increased colors and is custom made. Not like the Yobo Clone.

Actually, for years there have been NES-on-a-chips with extended graphics modes. It seems as if the NEX is using such a NOAC, and I am still skeptical that Messiah has designed a new NOAC. In the end, we will need extensive compatibility testing of every NES/Famicom game and accessory to see just how compatible the system is.

I am willing to be proven wrong, but only after extensive unbiased testing is done.

mills

09-16-2005, 01:49 PM

"Personally, I am really strict when it comes to accuracy and game compatibility. So I would err in towards more consoles, some nice shelves, a power multiplexer, and an AV multiplexer. Last time I checked the best DC NES emulator didn't even run at full speed. The best emulators on consoles as of now are the Xbox emulators:
http://xport.xbox-scene.com/

You can soft-mod your Xbox these days, due to sophisticated free software hacks, and hence you don't need a mod-chip. You might laugh, but I have used my Xbox more for emulation than for actual Xbox games.

...but again, I prefer the real thing. Even the Xbox NES emulator has A/V inaccuracies and game incompatibilities. I hooked up FCE UltraX (Xbox NES emu) on the same TV as my real NES. I tweaked everything to get the overscan perfect (edges of NES screen is covered up on a TV), and then I would switch back and forth quickly between emulation and NES on the TV, to compare things. Even in Super Mario Bros, there is a noticable difference... something a digital camera could capture, let alone a gamer playing the system.

The best software based NES emulator is Nintendulator, but it only has a PC port as of now. The way these emulators get more accurate is by emulating the NES at a lower and lower level, but this comes at a price. The lower-level the emulation, the more powerful the host system has to be, so Nintendulator needs a pretty beefy PC to run at full speed.

If you read back earlier in this thread
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61589&start=100
I and others talk about an ultra-low-level, that is circuit level emulation based console, which uses a Fully Programmable Gate Array (FPGA) to recreate the circuits of an NES and all of its mappers. Hence you have perfect accuracy and game compatibility, and you can play ROMs off of a flash card. It can also use all of the NES and Famicom peripherials, controllers, ROB, etc. Even better, is that the FPGA can be reconfigured on the fly, so the system can even do circuit-level emulation of other classic consoles of the 8-bit generation or earlier. The only problem is that the guy making it will only sell his console if he can get enough orders. I already offered to buy two Smile"

Regarding the DC emulator for NES. When i played it, it was utterly horrible, the controller response was very slow, as was the emulation, garbled graphics etc etc.

Eternal Champion

09-18-2005, 07:53 AM

At first I thought this was really damn cool, then read through the thread about NES-on-a-chip; so, is it, or what? Forgive my ignorance, but how is that different from the original NES?
I have a refurbished toaster from Ebay with a new 72-pin connector that is really tight. Could that be a problem for the carts?

J2games

09-18-2005, 08:15 AM

If you are looking for the Messiah Generation NEX unit?:

check out www.J2Games.com, we are the NubyTech National Distributor on the unit (shipping on the item is slated for October 19th from our warehouse - the launch date on the unit was recently pushed back by Messiah.)

we will be offering game paks which include the unit and different games (ie, platform pak, fighter pak, Mario pak, etc.) as well as paks which include unit, wireless controllers, lightgun, additional wired joystick, R.O.B., etc.

We also have a pre-order promotion going on right now, pre-order the Messiah Gen NEX Game System and ANY 4 titles and using the following coupon code you'll receive free shipping! coupon code: GenNexOffer

We can't wait for our personal units to arrive. Feedback on the system has been fantastic!

EricRyan34

09-18-2005, 10:13 AM

Maybe I am being a bit silly...but...Whats the difference between this new NEX system and the Yobo FC Game Consoles that are already out that work perfect as it is?

Jagasian

09-18-2005, 01:29 PM

Maybe I am being a bit silly...but...Whats the difference between this new NEX system and the Yobo FC Game Consoles that are already out that work perfect as it is?

All NES-on-a-Chip based clones have game compatibility issues, inaccurate audio, and inaccurate video. Furthermore, clones tend to lack compatibility with NES and Famicom peripherials, for a number of reasons, typically due to bad design of the system case or peripherial ports. The NES version or USA version of the Yobo FC Game console has the controller ports positioned in a way that makes it incompatible with certain peripherials that require two controller ports side-by-side just as on a real NES.

Both the NEX and the Yobo have other drawbacks compared to a real Famicom or NES, but again they are mainly game and peripherial compatibility issues. Please use this forums search engine to read the other threads on the NEX and Yobo aka Neofami. There are no more than 10 threads, so it isn't that hard of work.

If you think that the Yobo works perfect, then you haven't used it very much... or you don't know how a real NES should work.

Eternal Champion

09-18-2005, 02:19 PM

All NES-on-a-Chip based clones have game compatibility issues, inaccurate audio, and inaccurate video. Both the NEX and the Yobo have other drawbacks compared to a real Famicom or NES, but again they are mainly game and peripherial compatibility issues. If you think that the Yobo works perfect, then you haven't used it very much... or you don't know how a real NES should work.

I'm curious to know more about this Jagasian! I have a refurbished toaster with a new 72-pin connector, so I don't need something like the NEX, but how should a NES work, and how does that compare to the NES-on-a-chip? Also, if the new 72-pin connector in the toaster is tight, will that wear down the cartridge connectors over time?

Eternal Champion

09-18-2005, 02:19 PM

Why the hell did this double post?

EricRyan34

09-18-2005, 09:19 PM

Jagasian

09-18-2005, 09:41 PM

Thanks for your info. But still, What is the real difference between them? Is the NEX work better than the Yobo FC or something?

Not sure yet. The NEX has yet to be released. The problems with the Yobo are well known, but the problems with the NEX are as yet unknown. We do know that the NEX has a standard shape for the controller ports, so it is better than the Yobo in that regard. However, game, audio, video, and peripherial compatibility and accuracy comparisons have yet to be made. Trust me, I wish there was more information. In an ideal world, Messiah themselves would release a compatibility list. However, they will most likely want to downplay any compatibility or A/V accuracy issues, so it will be up to somebody else to do the testing and reporting.

Leo_A

09-18-2005, 10:48 PM

"check out www.J2Games.com, we are the NubyTech National Distributor on the unit (shipping on the item is slated for October 19th from our warehouse - the launch date on the unit was recently pushed back by Messiah.) "

Your site doesn't work. And what's special about being the "NubtTech National Distributor" for this, and what the heck does it mean? lol

Necromutant

09-19-2005, 12:45 AM

Anyone else see the latest issue (at least the latest one that my B&N has gotten in) of the now defunct Retro Gamer? They had a blurb about the NEX in it that claimed that Nintendo had contacted Messiah and was basically trying to shut the project down with the threat of a lawsuit (it may have not said that exactly but at least implied it). It was also predicting that the system would not make it out... :angry: I hope that it is not the case, just thought those that had not seen the article should know about it though, hopefully they at least get the pre-orders out! ;)

I know of course of the many famiclones out there. The differences that I can think about them and this release are the fact that this is being designed, distributed, etc by a US company and the design is completely unoriginal in that it literally looks like a NES. It is the first that I have seen that really looks like a NES, I have seen the PSOne looking ones of course though. ;) I hope these do make it out though and that the delays have to do with something other than possible Nintendo litigation...

Edit
Just saw this:

Would it help if I told you that Messiah originally contacted Nintendo to partner on this unit? They were not interested but gave Messiah the go-ahead to produce.

The way this thread is going I don't think that's even enough, but rest assured Messiah has done the pre-work. This is a business looking to stick around and produce quality merchandise. They're not some fly-by-night import outfit who doesn't understand the rules.

Didn't see that before I posted or read it a while ago and didn't remember... ;) I hope that is the case and that Retro Gamer was just speculating...

DreamTR

09-19-2005, 01:34 PM

Jagasian, for the third time, this is NOT an NES on a chip. It is a custom made board, and is UNLIKE the other clones out there.

Also, Jagasian, I stated in the post that I have tested the unit thoroughly. Please understand that I work for NubyTech, and NubyTech distributes this product. This is why I have posted it in regards to this. It is 100% impossible for anyone to duplicate an NES simply because no one has the structure of their parts inside. It is damned near impossible. Messiah has made a unit that can play Famicom and NES games, as well as have built in wireless capabilities, and pseudo stereo. And there won't be issues of the games not working like a toaster style NES.

I am not saying it is BETTER than an NES, but it's a brand new system with all of this packed in with free shipping for $59.99. Can't beat that with a stick.

DreamTR

09-19-2005, 01:36 PM

Also, in regards to the Retro Gamer article. Completely bogus. The system is perfectly legal, as the patents for the NES ran out already, which is why you are seeing "clones" on the market nowadays. On the flipside, the patents for the SNES have NOT ran out yet.

Jagasian

09-19-2005, 03:03 PM

Jagasian, for the third time, this is NOT an NES on a chip. It is a custom made board, and is UNLIKE the other clones out there.

Also, Jagasian, I stated in the post that I have tested the unit thoroughly.

I have no doubt that the printed circuit board is custom, as anybody can make a custom PCB. It is inexpensive and easy to do so. But the I still think that it uses a premade NES-on-a-chip integrated circuit. Messiah themselves have stated that their clone has extended graphics modes. What they described sounds familiar to a pre-existing NES-on-a-chip. Please post pictures of the insides of the NEX, if you want to disprove me. It shouldn't be hard to do, if you are right.

Also, if you are tested the unit thoroughly, then please let us know what games and peripherials have compatibility issues. Again, this shouldn't be hard to do at all, if you have already done the testing.

DreamTR

09-20-2005, 08:16 PM

Jagasian, I'm not in the mood to have to deal with some as patronizing or bluntly arrogant as yourself at this moment. I have NEVER posted a pic on Digital Press, and I have been on here since the beginning. I don't have time to "open" up the unit and take a picture so you can see what is inside. The system was released to 8 buyers so far. The connector for the Famicom and the NES are attached via a ribbon cable. That much i know from looking inside. AS for the compatibility list, it will be posted on the playmessiah.com site in due time.

If you think that it's not too much trouble, you can wait. I went through hell trying to test everything for that system because I actually own all of the stuff to test it, and I'm not going to just post it randomly on a forum because you decided that "you" want to see it. I know others want to see it and they will in due time at the playmessiah.com site.

Other than that, what I said earlier still stands. If you are looking for a good NES and Famicom cart based system with good picture quality and no more lines on the screen, as well as built in wireless, $59.99 plus free shipping in the USA is a great price. If you are looking for a bonafide 100% exact clone of the NES, only the NES can provide that.

Jagasian

09-20-2005, 09:00 PM

Jagasian, I'm not in the mood to have to deal with some as patronizing or bluntly arrogant as yourself at this moment.

Hello Pot, my name is Kettle. Thanks for pointing out that I am black. By the way, when it turns out that the NEX uses a pre-existing NOAC, will you admit that you were wrong? I am eagerly anticipating the day.

Bratwurst

09-20-2005, 09:09 PM

For something as transient and inconsequential as video games you sure take this shit seriously Jaggie. My suggestion is to learn how to play another song with that instrument of yours.

Computolio

09-21-2005, 02:35 PM

Necromutant

09-21-2005, 02:50 PM

I actually did get some time with the Messiah when I went to the Expo, and the sound was noticeably off. Kind of a nitpicky complaint, but uh, that pretty much makes it not worth the $70 they're asking for it.

They did say they might fix it sometime before release. Maybe it's FPGA-based or something, and they can update it to be more accurate as time goes on.

That is too bad, I'm still looking forward to the NEX, but sounds like it won't be the excellent replacement for blinking NESs that I thought it would be...

n8littlefield

09-21-2005, 02:58 PM

For those who have spent some time with it...if I am considering replaceing my NES (temporarily) with a clone, is it worth 2x the price of the Yobo NES? I don't care about Famicom support or wireless play, just want the best quality NES without the frig of my toaster.

Jagasian

09-21-2005, 03:11 PM

For something as transient and inconsequential as video games you sure take this shit seriously Jaggie. My suggestion is to learn how to play another song with that instrument of yours.

You sure are easily offended over something as inconsequential a technical critique of a grey-market video game system. My suggestion is that you get a life.

Bratwurst

09-21-2005, 03:30 PM

You sure are easily offended over something as inconsequential a technical critique of a grey-market video game system. My suggestion is that you get a life.

Not so much offended as tired of seeing you post the same grievances, questions and proposals each and every time. You're a broken record if I ever saw one.

DreamTR

09-21-2005, 04:51 PM

The system is $59.99 with free shipping anywhere in the USA, not $70. It is better than the blinking NES if you just want to play your games without the blinking lights. There are sound differences, and there is a better sound channel for the system, but it is not an exact duplicate of the NES.

Jagasian: If you can make a better system with exact 100% sound, wireless support, and it's your own non "NES ON A CHIP" technology as you say, by all means, don't hide behind your monitor with these inane observations, get out and do it! GO right ahead and show us all how to keep it low with production costs! Please! By all means! LOL

I am probably the biggest NES collector/fan/player in the USA, and I can tell you there is nothing that compares to a toaster NES in terms of quality. Nothing. This is just a viable alternative if you want your system to actually WORK and PLAY your games without having stupid batteries erasing left and right and the system resetting at random intervals.

16-bit

09-21-2005, 06:35 PM

Messiah must be totally swamped right now since they post on this message board, but have not addressed the compatibility issues. Still, it would be nice to know compatibility issues prior to the release of the system.

If in fact there are no compatibility issues, then a demo of Akumajo Densetsu (Castlevania III) would have been better marketing at the CGE than say, 1942.

If this system fully supports famicom games with enhanced chipsets, then this is a breakthru system. I (and others) have asked if this is the case with the NEX for sevearal months. Thus far, we do not have a definative answer. This lack of info so close to the released date invites skeptisism.

The real loser in this internet argument is Messiah since they are missing out on preorders for those who would like to know compatibility issued prior to placing a preorder.

DreamTR

09-21-2005, 06:44 PM

16 bit, the system is selling very well still. The pre-orders are at a point where ordering late is delaying the system for the customer.

There ARE some compatibility issues. No one is saying there are not. Most games work, some have weird issues....

Leo_A

09-21-2005, 08:15 PM

"There are sound differences, and there is a better sound channel for the system, but it is not an exact duplicate of the NES."

Is it noticable much? Like I hear people complain that the new Namco Musuem has sounds that are off, but I'm not able to notice it. Think I'd notice this? It might be a better sound channel for the system (Whatever that means, I wouldn't know), but does it do a decent job with standard NES games (Not the games you guys want to make or whatever is up with giving it non NES capabilities)?

"If you can make a better system with exact 100% sound, wireless support, and it's your own non "NES ON A CHIP" technology as you say, by all means, don't hide behind your monitor with these inane observations, get out and do it!"

While I agree with you on your opinion, telling someone if they can do better then do it yourself is a pretty pointless reply. It's the common internet response to criticism, you can't expect praise from everyone and I'm sure you'd want some honest criticism when this comes out if people see flaws with it. I thought it was NES on a chip technology to, that's what the public has been led to believe, but I don't know why he insist you're wrong if you're involved with the project yourself.

"I am probably the biggest NES collector/fan/player in the USA, and I can tell you there is nothing that compares to a toaster NES in terms of quality. Nothing. This is just a viable alternative if you want your system to actually WORK and PLAY your games without having stupid batteries erasing left and right and the system resetting at random intervals."

So what's wrong with this system then? Is the sound that bad that the original NES, despite it's issues 20 years later that you've mentioned (With several others like just getting it to fire up when you plug a cart in and not blink), is still superior? Or do you mean the quality of the actual construction of this unit, and not it's performance when it's in full working order? Or are there other problems besides the sound issues?

EricRyan34

09-21-2005, 08:43 PM

I am just going to stick to the Yobo FC Game console, that works fine

DreamTR

09-22-2005, 03:32 AM

Leo, I am not involved in making the product. I work for a company that is hleping to distribute it. Everyone will see when it comes out I suppose.

AS for you telling me it is common internet criticism to respond to him in reagrds to "making his own" system, Messiah actually cares about gamers that people have long forgotten to make something that hardcore gamers will care about, long lost forgotten systems. That is the point I am trying to get across. Jagasian has done nothing but try and tear the thing apart, not looking at the whole picture. He is complaining about issues that can not be controlled. If 100% emulation of an NES was possible, then the hardest of the hardcore would STILL not prefer an NES system after 20 years. Messiah did the best it could, and it's a pretty damned good first effort if you ask me.

GarrettCRW

09-22-2005, 04:36 AM

Six Switch

09-22-2005, 07:33 AM

i'm going to be lazy and not read all this...when is this thing finally coming out?

Jagasian

09-22-2005, 09:15 AM

Jagasian has done nothing but try and tear the thing apart, not looking at the whole picture. He is complaining about issues that can not be controlled. If 100% emulation of an NES was possible, then the hardest of the hardcore would STILL not prefer an NES system after 20 years.

I disagree. I have stated nothing more than technical critiques. When asked about the benefits of the system over the other current popular NES clone, the Yobo FC Game Console (USA Version), I pointed out that Messiah got the controller ports right, while the Yobo has the ports placed incorrectly. Furthermore, making a quality clone is within their control. A single man with no funding whatsoever has developed the most accurate NES clone ever: The kevtris FPGA NES.

DreamTR, with all due respect, you are the one in the wrong. You are the person that made a personal attack against me. All I have done is point out the issues involved. Again, one of the main issues is that Messiah is not up-front about the faults in their product. If they were, then I wouldn't need to keep telling people about them. It is misleading to portray something as an NES compatible and not tell people about the compatibility problems.

Imagine if you got a new desktop PC, which you assumed was compatible with PC software... but it turned out to have numerous compatibility problems. Would you attack somebody that pointed out that said PC has compatibility problems?

Anyway, if it turns out to be using a pre-existing NOAC, then I'd say that Messiah lied, and I deserve an apology. Furthermore, with regards to somebody doing a better job of recreating the NES, there are software emulators that do a great job: FCEUltra and Nintendulator. These NOAC based clones can't even do as good as software based emulators. NOAC based clones are a dime a dozen. There are a few different pre-existing NOACs that they are all based on, so the main thing that differs between Fami/NES clones is their plastic case shape, controller ports, and cart slot.

anagrama

09-22-2005, 09:20 AM

Is it time for the dead horse smiley yet?

Anyway, if it turns out to be using a pre-existing NOAC, then I'd say that Messiah lied, and I deserve an apology.

Can we then assume that you will be offering a formal apology if it turns out not to be an existing NOAC?

GrandAmChandler

09-22-2005, 09:44 AM

The real loser in this internet argument is Messiah since they are missing out on preorders for those who would like to know compatibility issued prior to placing a preorder.

Bingo, man, bingo. ;)

Seriously, all players like Jagasian and myself want to know is if this NEX has issues, and what those issues are. Instead, all we've seen are claims that it's good, really good, and more than a few implications that this might be better than a toaster NES. Call me nuts, but this sounds oddly like the line I was given (and bitched about on the Off-Topic forum here) when I expressed extreme displeasure about the sped-up and edited He-Man DVD sets a few months back.

Quality first effort or not (and the NEX is pretty well-conceived for a first effort), a little bit more on the details front would have gone a long way towards preventing this current argument. As it stands, once I receive the relatively cheap top-loading NES I scored on eBay and have it modded for AV, I'm certainly going to be out of the running for something that I actually would have liked to have purchased if my questions had been answered much more openly in the first case.

I will jump in here even though this thread is ridiculously long, and most of the same information keeps repeating itself. I am in the same boat.

I will NOT pre-order or purchase an NEX until I see a compatibility list. AT CGE all that they put on the demos were simply programmed early releases like 1942 and Super Mario Brothers.

Here is what I want to see emulated on it and then we will start talking purchase:

Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
River City Ransom
Mega Man 5 / 6
Dragon Warrior IV
Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers

The presentation of the system is very nice, and the packaging is quite nice. However, if it can't play some of these great releases flawlessly, then I see no point in purchasing. They really need to come up with a compatibility list.

Melf

09-22-2005, 02:07 PM

I spoke to a Messiah rep about doing an interview for Hardcore Gamer Magazine that would have shed some light on the compatibility issue, as well as features, connections, etc. She fed me a press release and that was it, so I didn't even mention their product in the mag. I don't need them to speculate; I can do that myself.

DreamTR

09-22-2005, 02:07 PM

Jagasian, you are comparing a PC emulator to a console which does not use ROMS? THat I find quite amazing, since physical carts are much different than a ROM image.

We did send out 8 units at CGE, so I am sure if anyone has any questions, one of those fine folks will be willing to talk about compatibility issues. I can not speak about them until it is posted. Please understand this since others can not. When you work for a company that has not released information as of yet because they are still CURRENTLY working on such issues, it makes sense NOT to release this information until the product is FINAL.

This is standard when I worked at a game magazine, and standard practice at a perhipheral/game company as well. You can take that for what it is worth, but the system is selling out quite nicely, and anyone that pre-orders NOW will probably not get their system until late Nov, that is how well sales are at the moment. This will be announced on the playmessiah website as WELL as a FULL compatibility list when everything is ready.

I implore all of you to PLEASE read my posts carefully, because I have seen people complaining about things I ALREADY addressed about the system.

s1lence

09-22-2005, 03:47 PM

:deadhorse: per previous request. Let's just wait until its here.

rbudrick

09-22-2005, 04:33 PM

Right. So why is this made with an NES-on-a chip?

Lol, just fuckin' with ya. :D

-Rob

DreamTR

09-22-2005, 05:19 PM

Melf, you must have done that a LONG time ago because I'm the only one who has been doing PR Requests for months, and last I checked, I am not female.. 8-)

Melf

09-22-2005, 06:59 PM

It was in early June, for the issue of HGM that came out this week. I ended up having to devote the entire feature to the Atari Flashback games, but I did do a write up of the console for GotNext (http://www.got-next.com/features_read.php?id=197).

DreamTR

09-22-2005, 07:02 PM

Melf, whoever you spoke to was the wrong person. Sorry. I check all of the Messiah email, so it did not go through me, or you would have had your feature.

By the way, I have a crapload of unreleased Genesis games..does anyone in the Genesis community care?

GrandAmChandler

09-22-2005, 07:06 PM

By the way, I have a crapload of unreleased Genesis games..does anyone in the Genesis community care?

Now YOU KNOW you can't just say that and not give a list......

Melf

09-22-2005, 07:15 PM

Of course we care! List them! List them, I say!

DreamTR

09-22-2005, 07:17 PM

Hahaha! Sure I can! I have random crap:

Body Count
Pengo
Ottifants ( I am sure this came out in Europe)
Might and Magic III
Rainbow Islands Extra (I think it was released in Japan, but this is a USA beta)
Worms (Europe maybe?)
Iron Hammer (unreleased)
Prince of Persia 2 (unreleased)
TBA game (Brown 60) for VR Headset (unreleased, very
early)
VR Headset Test Cart
Total Carnage (no sound)
Puyo Puyo (unreleased, Dr. Robotnik's MeanBean Machine in USA) Came out in Europe I suppose?
Monster Hunter
6 in 1 Arcade pak (Thunder Blade, Columns, World Cup Italia; etc) (unreleased) Europe?
Nuclear Rush (unreleased)
Bloodliners (unreleased) (Electronic Arts)(prototype
box)
Scatters (unreleased) (Electronic Arts)(prototype
box)
Capture the Flag (unreleased) (Electronic Arts)(prototype box) (no title
screen)
Michael Jordan's Chaos in the Windy City (unreleased) (Electronic Arts) (prototype box)
Baby Boom (unreleased)
Nightmare Circus (released in Brazil I think, USA game)
Speedway Pro Challenge (unreleased)
Beastball (unreleased)
Fido Dido (unreleased)
Payne Stewart Golf (unreleased)
Jack Nicklaus 95 (unreleased, NOT POWER CHALLENGE)

kainemaxwell

09-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Quality first effort or not (and the NEX is pretty well-conceived for a first effort), a little bit more on the details front would have gone a long way towards preventing this current argument. As it stands, once I receive the relatively cheap top-loading NES I scored on eBay and have it modded for AV, I'm certainly going to be out of the running for something that I actually would have liked to have purchased if my questions had been answered much more openly in the first case.
Where you getting your top-loader modded?

Mangar

09-23-2005, 08:51 PM

There ARE some compatibility issues. No one is saying there are not. Most games work, some have weird issues....

When a guy representing a company says this about a product he is attempting to sell as a NES replacement - That says it all to me :) - Couple that with Messiah's refusal to release a compatibility list, and i think common sense alone can dictate what can and will be compatible with the NEX.

Of course pre-orders are high, and it's selling like hotcakes. So who cares if all the flaws and problems were hidden and not disclosed. Sifting through a 9-page thread, just to find out that the system is not what it's advertised to be is kinda sad really. All in the name of the almighty dollar though. Pre-Order right AWAY, or you won't get it until at least November, or perhaps even later! Gotta suck up all that cash prior to people actually getting there hands on it.....

On a side note: I appreciate Jagasians posts on the subject. Mainly because they tend to highlight the facts, specifications, and reality of the console in question. As opposed to the usual fanboy hype which tended to surround the NEX when it was first announced. The fact that it takes 9 pages of posts to find out information, which **SHOULD** have been made available prior to Messiah taking money from people - Is what i find rather sleazy about the whole deal.

DreamTR

09-23-2005, 11:19 PM

Mangar: Again you are ONE of those people that don't seem to read thoroughly through my posts. Let me say this for the umpteenth time. The reason why the compatibility list has not been posted yet is because they are working on the FINAL few games on that list in order for them to BE compatible.

Now Mr. claims to know about "common sense", why would a company post incompatible games when A, the product is not out yet, and B, they are working on ADDRESSING this very issue in order for EVERYTHING to work. If that list is going to change, why post it if no one even has the product yet? Do you think Sony posted on message boards all the DVDs that were incomaptible with the Ps2 when they were in testing? Of course not. You never even HEARD about it, because it was FIXED at the very end.

Also, "sleazy?" You have to be kidding me. If Messiah was not giving refunds, then of course, you could say that, but you are making up things now. Again, if you don't know anything about what you are talking about, why are you posting?

Please, don't post here when you won't even take the time to read everything I said and addressed about the product.

NintendoMan

09-24-2005, 12:32 AM

The thing definately looks awesome, and the specs. sound great as well. I personally won't ever buy one though. It would be cool to have, but don't see the point in owning one, I mean since I already have both versions of the NES, and they work perfect!

zerohero

09-24-2005, 12:48 AM

This thing looks really cool and would make a cool gift to anyone.

The Collector

09-24-2005, 03:44 PM

I just want to know when to expect it in the mail?!?

DreamTR

09-24-2005, 04:05 PM

Oct 17. Messiah has just been so busy, that they have not had time to update the webstire, but it will be shipping that date.

Eternal Champion

09-25-2005, 01:02 PM

I would like to know what exactly a NES-on-a-chip is, how it is different from the "real" NES architecture, and why NEX cannot be a "real" NES. Can anyone answer this, in layman's terms?

It looks like I'll keep my refurbished toaster.

To the person who has a modded top-loader: where did you get it done, and what/how was modded? Is the video quality better? I got rid of it because the video was crappy.

omnedon

09-25-2005, 01:26 PM

OSG mods top loaders. However, you wil get better video regardless out of a refurbished toaster (OSG does those too), and likely better video out of an NEX as well.

Top loaders are inferior, except for their cart connector. That's it. IMO anyway.

I'm looking forward to the NEX. Buy one, don't buy one, whatever. A company (started by NES enthusiasts like us for cripes sake) is paying attention to the classic NES fanbase, and is trying hard to bring a quality product out. At significant risk.

This thread proves, that on forums, people will argue anything. The NEX will sink or swim on it's own merits. Period.

And it's success will not be decided by it's compatibility with Famicom Castlevania III's custom sound chip. Maybe 10 people in ALL OF NORTH AMERICA have that game. Those 10 sales (if earned due to compatibility, or lost due to incompatibility) will not be the deciding factor in it's success, I can assure you.

It's the mass public embracing the console that will make it succeed or fail.

So, it had better play the Mario games, and Tetris. LOL

LOL at this thread

Jagasian

09-25-2005, 02:07 PM

I would like to know what exactly a NES-on-a-chip is, how it is different from the "real" NES architecture, and why NEX cannot be a "real" NES. Can anyone answer this, in layman's terms?

It looks like I'll keep my refurbished toaster.

A NES-on-a-chip (NOAC) refers to one of the few clones of the circuitry inside a NES, which, using modern circuit technology, has been reduced to the size of one tiny chip. There are literally hundreds of Famicom/NES clones, but they all use one of a few different NOACs. These NOACs were developed, unofficially, by reverse engineering the NES. They are far from perfect copies of the original, and contain bugs that prevent them from running every game correctly. However, the NOACs are popular because they are so cheap.

Also, regardless of what people say, NOAC based clones have problems with more than just a few games. For example, the best clone currently on the market is called the "Yobo" or "Neofami". A review of the Neofami that I have linked elsewhere in these forums, lists 12 games with compatibility problems:

After Burner (semi-playable, many map tiles not displayed)
Bandit Kings of Ancient China
Castlevania III - Dracula's Curse (hangs when you enter a level)
Gauntlet (Licensed or Unlicensed) (wrong map tiles)
Gemfire
L'Empereur
Laser Invasion (extreme graphics glitches)
Nobunaga's Ambition II
Rad Racer II (wrong map tiles)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms II
Uncharted Waters
Micro Machines

... and that is just a sample of games that have problems. There are most likely far more games that have issues, but the reviewer just didn't do comprehensive testing, as he doesn't own every Famicom/NES game.

The biggest problem with NOAC based clones is their audio is terrible in all games, compared to a real NES. They also tend to have poor video, similar to that found in an official NES toploader that has been A/V modded. Honestly, software based NES emulators such as FCE Ultra and Nintendulator have better game compatibility than NOAC based clones. FCE Ultra has an Xbox port.

If you get a professionally refurbished toaster, then make sure that you get it from a company known for doing quality refurb jobs. Not all refurbishings are the same. Some places just do a sloppy replacement of the 72-in connector, replacing it with an ultra-tight connector that may still have problems. Also, if you are going to use a toaster, for godsakes also use clean carts. I suggest 99.99% pure anhydrous isopropyl alcohol with q-tips. It will cost you under $10 for a lifetime's supply of the alcohol and q-tips. As long as you always brush your cart's teeth clean before putting it into your refurbished toaster, you shouldn't have any problems.