Generation NEX: NES micro-clone from Messiah

[16-bit]

OSG mods top loaders. However, you wil get better video regardless out of a refurbished toaster (OSG does those too), and likely better video out of an NEX as well.

Top loaders are inferior, except for their cart connector. That's it. IMO anyway.

I'm looking forward to the NEX. Buy one, don't buy one, whatever. A company (started by NES enthusiasts like us for cripes sake) is paying attention to the classic NES fanbase, and is trying hard to bring a quality product out. At significant risk.

This thread proves, that on forums, people will argue anything. The NEX will sink or swim on it's own merits. Period.

And it's success will not be decided by it's compatibility with Famicom Castlevania III's custom sound chip. Maybe 10 people in ALL OF NORTH AMERICA have that game. Those 10 sales (if earned due to compatibility, or lost due to incompatibility) will not be the deciding factor in it's success, I can assure you.

It's the mass public embracing the console that will make it succeed or fail.

So, it had better play the Mario games, and Tetris. LOL

LOL at this thread

Um, no one is selling Messiah short (at least I am not).

The scope of my remarks about Castlevania III and related compatibility issues were soley related to the success of the argument in this thread--not in overall sales numbers.

Concerns of NEX compatiblity with the Konami Sound Chip et. al. has been raised on other forums as well. Let me correct your assumption (joke or not) that 10 people own Akumajo Densetsu in North America. Moreover, a cavalier attudute towards this concern on this site is absurd. After all, this is a site where people take gaming a bit more seriously than the mass market (refreshingly enough).

I appreciate Jagasian's posts since he has raised an issue (compatibility) that would likely not have been raised or brought to the level of attention it has without it. Yes, a fraction of the potential user base care about it, but that doesn't dimisish a desire to be an informed buyer irrespective of mass market sucess.

I hope the NEX is a great sucess, but I also hope that compatibility issues (if present) are corrected on the NEX 2 :)
[/b]

[omnedon]

Moreover, a cavalier attudute towards this concern on this site is absurd. After all, this is a site where people take gaming a bit more seriously than the mass market (refreshingly enough).


I do not have a cavalier attitude about it's compatibility at all! I sincerely hope it's compatible, for everyone's benefit. I've seen Zero evidence about Messiah's having a cavalier attitude about it either, hence the release delay DreamTR mentioned. I said this:


And it's success will not be decided by it's compatibility with Famicom Castlevania III's custom sound chip. Maybe 10 people in ALL OF NORTH AMERICA have that game. Those 10 sales (if earned due to compatibility, or lost due to incompatibility) will not be the deciding factor in it's success, I can assure you.

It's the mass public embracing the console that will make it succeed or fail.


Just harsh reality. We care though, and it's great. I think Jagasian is bringing a clear critical point of view, from a true purists perspective. An excellent asset to this board.

[Jagasian]

On the topic of a NEX 2, the Atari Flashback's first release was far less than perfect and in fact was based on a NOAC even though it played 2600 games, which were ported to the Flashback 1. The accuracy was terrible, and the Atari fans let everybody know about it. Still, the Flashback sold 500,000 units! So the developers made right and created the Flashback 2, which is actually based on a custom clone of the 2600 that is far more accurate.

So the lesson to learn is that compatibility issues should not be down-played. A buyer should be able to consult an accurate and comprehensive compatibility list before they buy the NEX, so that they can decide if it is worth their money. There is nothing more fair than that.

[eggwolio]

I know a lot of others probably had to have gotten this email as well, but I'm not quite sure what it means per se.



Dear Future Generation NEX owner,



If you pre-ordered your system anytime before 11:59 P.M Pacific Standard Time on September 6, you will receive your unit from the first shipment. If you ordered anytime after this date, your system will be shipping in mid October. With the looming release of the Generation NEX, we are proud to present to you the return of one of the most influential systems in video game history. We value your business and hope you will continue supporting the entire line of present and future Messiah products.



Regards,



Perry Freeze

Messiah Product Sales


I went to the online store again, and it says this:

NOTE: Orders taken prior to 11:59 PST on September 6th will be shipped by October 17th. NEX pre-orders made after September 6th will be shipped in the second half of November, 2005.


So I'm a lil confused. I orderd 8/29. Now, I know I'll get it by October 17, but I'd really like to see it sooner than that. I know that someone here works for Nuby, so maybe you can clear that up. When is the first shipment headed out?

Thanks.

[walrusmonger]

They're shipping oct 17th. I thought it meant if you preordered it you'd get it sooner, but no luck. I had mine on reserve since July, for the September release, and if they can't pump 'em out fast enough, that's fine, but at least keep people updated. September pre-oreder != mid oct. pre order (IMO at least), but that's what's going to happen.

[eggwolio]

well...crap.

that's all i can say.

at least i'll have it before my birthday i guess.

argh.

[walrusmonger]

yeah I just called off my reserve and got a refund because I was kind of tired of waiting when I already have a perfectly good working refurbished toaster. plus my store will get the NEX in, so I'll pick one up when they hit stores.

[DreamTR]

Oct 17 is when the first shipment goes out. Anything ordered AFTER Sep 6 ships out mid-November. It's all production delays that can not be controlled at the moment...

[Jagasian]

AFAIK, Messiah is self funded, so they need to run production in phases, so that one phase funds the next production phase.

[omnedon]

OSG closed it's Canadian pre-order on August 31/05. All OSG pre-orders will be filled by the initial first shipment.

After that it will be regular sales. The Canadian pre-order was a limited time offer.

[eggwolio]

this is the greatest instruction manual design in the history of ever:

http://www.playmessiah.com/images/onlinestore/NEX/Messiah_NEX_system.jpg

[droppedD]

this is the greatest instruction manual design in the history of ever:

http://www.playmessiah.com/images/onlinestore/NEX/Messiah_NEX_system.jpg

i'm gonna assume you meant to link to this:

http://www.playmessiah.com/images/onlinestore/NEX/Messiah_NEX_manual2.jpg

as your link is just a photo of the console...
but yeah, that is pretty damn cool.

[Six Switch]

oh wow thats neat.

makes me wish i preordered this,i don't want to wait till christmas.

[eggwolio]

this is the greatest instruction manual design in the history of ever:

http://www.playmessiah.com/images/onlinestore/NEX/Messiah_NEX_system.jpg

i'm gonna assume you meant to link to this:

http://www.playmessiah.com/images/onlinestore/NEX/Messiah_NEX_manual2.jpg

as your link is just a photo of the console...
but yeah, that is pretty damn cool.

thanks. yeah.

i'm a retard.

:)

[EricRyan34]

Howcome they dont really have a set release date yet?? ITs kinda annoying? O_O

[Lady Jaye]

Read the above posts, it explains why.

[Darth Sensei]

Read the above posts, it explains why.

I'm going to pass on this for awhile because it's taken them so long to get the product out. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they end up postponing it even further.

[Lady Jaye]

Well, I'm among those who preordered, so I'm still waiting...

[s1lence]

That is one of the coolest manuals I've ever seen. Can't wait for the system to finally arrive.

[rjohnson]

Is it SVHS out as well as RCA...does anyone know this?

i Want one....

[Necromutant]

Is it SVHS out as well as RCA...does anyone know this?

i Want one....

Check out the faq on their site... no now s-video out.

Damn, that manual is huge and sweet! :) Can't wait to get my hands on this, should be 10 days till it ships! :evil:

[Jagasian]

Is it SVHS out as well as RCA...does anyone know this?

i Want one....

The imfamous NES-on-a-chips (NOACs) do not support S-video as they were designed before it became a common standard. This is another sign that the NEX is not based on a new custom cloning of the NES, but instead is based on one of the few common NOACs. These NOACs basically spit out composite video directly from the NES-on-a-chip. Think about it. If you are going to go through all of the trouble of designing a new clone of the NES circuitry, then why not design it to just spit out an RGB signal? Then you can add circuitry for converting the raw RGB signal into the popular video signal for where you are selling the system: RCA composite, S-video, component, etc.

In conclusion, this is just more evidence that it is based on a cheap NOAC. There is an official clone of the Famicom that supports S-video output. It is called the "Famicom Titler", and you can play NES games on it using an inexpensive cart adapter.

[s1lence]

Is it SVHS out as well as RCA...does anyone know this?

i Want one....

The imfamous NES-on-a-chips (NOACs) do not support S-video as they were designed before it became a common standard. This is another sign that the NEX is not based on a new custom cloning of the NES, but instead is based on one of the few common NOACs. These NOACs basically spit out composite video directly from the NES-on-a-chip. Think about it. If you are going to go through all of the trouble of designing a new clone of the NES circuitry, then why not design it to just spit out an RGB signal? Then you can add circuitry for converting the raw RGB signal into the popular video signal for where you are selling the system: RCA composite, S-video, component, etc.

In conclusion, this is just more evidence that it is based on a cheap NOAC. There is an official clone of the Famicom that supports S-video output. It is called the "Famicom Titler", and you can play NES games on it using an inexpensive cart adapter.

:deadhorse: :hmm:

[DreamTR]

Jagasian, you just don't stop.

You ever seen the quality of the S-video on the Titler? It's WORSE than the Sharp NES TV, or even a composite video connection. And tell me, why spend even MORE money on S and RGB when the cost is already high because of the wireless, and extra port?

I'm a big proponent for video quality, and a toaster NES and SHARP NES TV are the top 2 for sound and picture.

When the system is released, THEN you can open it up and go crazy with it.

[16-bit]

Jagasian, you just don't stop.

You ever seen the quality of the S-video on the Titler? It's WORSE than the Sharp NES TV, or even a composite video connection. And tell me, why spend even MORE money on S and RGB when the cost is already high because of the wireless, and extra port?



I have to disagree with your comment on S-Video quality.
I've had two Titlers and have compared them side by side with an av famicom on a 42" Mitsubishi RGB TV/Monitor and a 20" Toshiba TV. I noticed improved picture with Famicom Titler vs. standard composite out on a famicom av. I don't know about the Sharp NES TV tho.

On the otherhand, S-Video could very well be cost prohibitive, so I understand why it would not be included. but I wish it was...

[EricRyan34]

What the hell are you guys talking about

[rbudrick]

What the hell are you guys talking about

Oh, I know you didn't just ask that without reading the thread...

Without summarizing the whole thing, the discussion is about "Generation NEX: NES micro-clone from Messiah," as the title suggests.

-Rob

[DreamTR]

16-bit, the Sharp NES TV has the NES built in....picture quality is stupendous.

The Titler "looks sharper" at times, but it takes away from the colors I noticed for some reason.

I still prefer a nice NES toaster with gold AV cables on a WEGA! But you are right, the cost is an issue, that was the main reason....

[Jagasian]

16-bit, the Sharp NES TV has the NES built in....picture quality is stupendous.

The Titler "looks sharper" at times, but it takes away from the colors I noticed for some reason.

I still prefer a nice NES toaster with gold AV cables on a WEGA! But you are right, the cost is an issue, that was the main reason....

My point was that this is yet more evidence that it uses a pre-existing NOAC. People claimed that there is no evidence that it uses a NOAC, and I repeatidly told them to read the FAQ. Messiah could be upfront about it, but they aren't.

The Titler might have slightly different colors because it uses a different PPU. The NES/Famicom's original PPU outputs colors in a non-RGB fasion. So you are right, the Titler gets you sharper video, but at the cost of the colors being slightly different from what they were probably supposed to look like. Game designers most likely tested on the standard NES toaster and RF Famicom.

Has anybody opened up the various Nitendo Sharp TVs? There are NES and SNES versions, right? You never know, there might be a straight RGB connection from the NES to the CRT. That would make for ideal video quality. I've always wanted a SNES Sharp TV. Apparently they made it in two sizes. I want the big one :)

[leonk]

But you are right, the cost is an issue, that was the main reason....

Hmm.. cost of what? SVideo connectors cost less than a buck a piece. Or do you mean converting to SVideo signal inside the box?

[DreamTR]

leonk: cost of converting.

Jagasian: No one cares right now, though. You are literally reiterating the same things about the system almost obsessively. They did not say it was not a clone, that part is obvious. As far as the pre-existing chip thingy, I was told and am telling you the same thing a million times already. It's different according to what was told to me, and what is on the website. When the system is released, then you can go crazy with it. Until then, there's not really much of a point.

[Nature Boy]

My point was that this is yet more evidence that it uses a pre-existing NOAC.

You can argue that it further *suggests* they're using a NOAC, as NOACs aren't known to use S-Video, but you certainly can't site it as fool proof evidence. Unless of course you're simply trying to goad the fools who continue to be goaded - then it makes perfect sense to make the inference.

[slapdash]

My point was that this is yet more evidence that it uses a pre-existing NOAC.

The problem is, this is circumstantial evidence at best, and circumstantial evidence is rarely valid. Find REAL evidence, or just wait and see.

[Bojay1997]

Also, in regards to the Retro Gamer article. Completely bogus. The system is perfectly legal, as the patents for the NES ran out already, which is why you are seeing "clones" on the market nowadays. On the flipside, the patents for the SNES have NOT ran out yet.

Not sure if the Retro Gamer piece was accurate or not, but your patent information is flat wrong. Nintendo still has valid and active patents on all of the custom components in the Famicom and NES. The reason you are seeing "clones" is that the cost of going after the primarily Chinese based pirates building these units is not worth it when compared to the relatively small market for these things. As of a few months ago, Nintendo was still sending cease and desist letters to mall kiosk owners selling pirate systems. Since this unit doesn't come with roms and uses regular NES carts, I suspect Nintendo isn't all that interested in the whole project or going after what is a really small player.

[Leo_A]

You're wrong Bojay1997. It's all perfectly legal, Nintendo's only gone against the parties that include roms in the devices.

I don't know what Nintendo has the rights to or not hardware wise, but these devices uses Nintendo on a chips are perfectly legal.

[Bojay1997]

You're wrong Bojay1997. It's all perfectly legal, Nintendo's only gone against the parties that include roms in the devices.

I don't know what Nintendo has the rights to or not hardware wise, but these devices uses Nintendo on a chips are perfectly legal.

Assuming this system does not infringe any of Nintendo's patents, it may very well be legal. To suggest, however, that Nintendo's patents on the NES have expired and that's what makes it ok to sell clones is just plain wrong.

[Leo_A]

Okay, I can accept that. For example I know the TIA chip from the 2600 is still under copyright, so what you're saying makes sense.

[n8littlefield]

Sorry to bump this, but aren't we getting REALLY close to shipping on these? I was thinking by now we'd at least have some type of update on compatibility. Any word yet?

[s1lence]

According to Messiah today is the day that all of the pre-orders should will have been shipped by. Hopefully people will start to recieve them this week.

[captain nintendo]

16-bit, the Sharp NES TV has the NES built in....picture quality is stupendous.

The Titler "looks sharper" at times, but it takes away from the colors I noticed for some reason.

I still prefer a nice NES toaster with gold AV cables on a WEGA! But you are right, the cost is an issue, that was the main reason....


Sharp NES combo TV does look awesome ! Best 150 dollars I ever spent. 8-)



Hopefully people will post here when thier orders start arriving :) I want to know if it is worth picking up. ;)

[DoctorAwesome]

I want to play my soon to be nex on my computer monitor, will any VGA cables work?

[Jagasian]

I want to play my soon to be nex on my computer monitor, will any VGA cables work?

No. The NEX only outputs RCA composite video. So if you want to hook it up to a computer monitor, you will need to use a VGA adapter, which tend to be expensive.


Sorry to bump this, but aren't we getting REALLY close to shipping on these? I was thinking by now we'd at least have some type of update on compatibility. Any word yet?

Seriously. Isn't this the kind of thing that people would like to know before they buy it?

[Leo_A]

You would think they'd take some time and update the community. They're clearly finished with it if it's time to ship them (Which means any games they know aren't compatible are going to stay that way), or if they're not finished with them yet they owe the people that ordered one a update that its been delayed. A list of the titles tested and any issues that crept up in any would be a nice thing to make available.

Not a good start, hope it doesn't reflect the quality of the finished product.

[n8littlefield]

I actually emailed them today, because if it is a good system, it will likely be on my Christmas list this year for my wife... If I get a response, I'll put it here. Basically I just said that given it's launching, is there any update on the games that normally hang up Famiclones like Castlevania III and Tengen games.

Edit: I got this:
As soon as we have an update, it will be posted on the playmessiah.com website! Thanks for your patience!

Seriously, the thing is basically shipping, how can you not give people the information unless you have something to hide? :hmm:

[Nes]

Sharp NES.... i've been wanting to get one of those for quite some time.... drool.

[Darth Sensei]

I have a tendency to be paranoid, but I think this smells...

[s1lence]

I have a tendency to be paranoid, but I think this smells...

Well considering people have played them at CGE and they offer other products, I don't think it smells fishy....yet.

[n8littlefield]

I don't think it smells funny that it won't be released, I'm just starting to think that people may be plunking down 2-3x the price of a normal clone for one with similar compatibility issues. They really need to release some sort of statement.