RUMOUR: PS3 to not play USED GAMES?!? (Offically Denied)

[Ed Oscuro]

Shame on Joystiq for letting this look mysterious.

There's always a use for read-once discs. For example, distributing public beta discs or music/movie samplers on such media would be legitimate applications, though I don't see the benefit of having it used on game demo discs.

This won't be used on traditional, commercially released titles.

That said, the music and movie industries have long flirted with the thought of read-once discs, but any successful uses (far as I know) have been to allow folks such as reviewers or fans the ability to get a song early, but not be able to redistribute the content easily.

[Ze_ro]

I wouldn't put it past Sony to try something like this. Keep in mind that they (and Microsoft and Nintendo) don't want you to buy used games because they don't get any profit off of it. Various people in the industry have already said they don't like places selling used games because of this (link (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=125925)). If Sony and Microsoft go with their usual plans of undercutting the cost of the system in the hopes of making up for it on game sales, then all of you people who primarily buy used games are likely considered "bad customers" in their opinion, since they might actually be LOSING money on you. If Sony could change the industry so that every game sold was brand new, and piracy didn't exist, don't you think they'd do it? Customer outrage is probably the only thing stopping them.

No one has mentioned it yet, but if this were to happen, it would make the PS3 impossible to collect for... can you imagine 10 years from now trying to look for sealed copies only? A smart person could clean up by stockpiling titles for future sale.

--Zero

[Whiskers the Wonder Cat]

I doubt it will happen. No one can be that insanely stupid.

[Arkaign]

Well, I don't think the game companies are ignorant of the fact that used games are actually good for them.

(1)- The person selling the used game is most likely going to turn around and use that money on a new game/accessory

(2)- The person who buys the used title is much more likely to go pick up the latest in the series if they get hooked on it.

(3)- Helps medium/small outlets stay in business, which gives them greater market penetration. Also, they make better margins selling 50,000 copies to retailer X than they do selling 5,000,000 through Wal-mart, who bleeds their vendors dry.

[Stevie Boy]

The one thing that really pisses me off about this idea, is the thought process that people only have one video game system. I had two XBOX's for a very long time. I enjoyed having two XBOX systems. One in my Garage Theater, and one in my living room. I have two PS1 systems. I have two Sega Saturns. I have two SNES. Etc, etc. I like having two systems, cause it's just more convienent for me. In fact, I'm buying two XBOX 360 systems. (I'm not sure If I'll actually keep both, or end up selling one for a profit)

I also don't like the thought of this since 80% of the games that I buy are used. But this kind of "program sharing" is already prohibited in the PC software industry. Try installing Microsoft Office 2003 or Turbo Tax on multiple PCs, even if they're both yours and see what happens. Is it really that unlogical that the videogame industry would want to follow the same path? After all, how much money must the industry be loosing because of used games sales?


We have, at work, office installed on numerous macs but you can only use it on 2 at a time, thats how the license works. So it makes sense to be able to use it on as many consoles as you want, but justone at a time. Like it works now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Huh, maybe Joystiq isn't scaremongering after all. Here's some text straight from one of the patents filed with the US PTO (italics mine):


1. Field of the Invention

The present invention relates to a disk recording medium, a reproduction device, and a reproduction method, whereby a legitimate recording medium can be protected from the used recording medium market by the structure of the disk recording medium such as a CD-ROM and a main unit (reproduction device) in which this recording medium is installed.

2. Background of the Invention

In recent years, beginning with the popularity of videogame machines, numerous entertainment devices have circulated on a market, and accordingly, the demand for disk recording media such as video software has increased. In conjunction with this phenomenon, not only end-users purchase and use disk recording media by legitimate channels, but also the resale of disk recording media already purchased by the end-user, i.e., the purchase of the used software, occurs as well as the manufacture of so-called counterfeit software in which the recorded data is illegally copied.

[Two paragraphs snipped.]

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The present invention has been produced in light of the aforesaid problems. It is an object of the present invention to provide a disk recording medium for the protection of legitimate recorded media in which security is maintained so that the sale of used software and counterfeit software can be prevented. It is a further object of this invention to provide a medium reproduction device and reproduction method using that disk recording.

[njiska]

Huh, maybe Joystiq isn't scaremongering after all. Here's some text straight from one of the patents filed with the US PTO (italics mine):


I'd really like everyone here to stop accusing Joystiq of fear mongering. A side from the patent itself being scary, as pointed out by Ed Oscuro, this story has been reported the same way on numerous sites including:

Arstechnica
Kotaku
Gamespot
PS3 Scene

and many many others.

[Ed Oscuro]

As usual, I was one of the ones who thought it was "scare mongering" at first (not intentional, of course...). Now that I looked at it, this really is some scary stuff.

As things go, though, this won't be the end of the world. There still are legitimate uses, and the strong wording of the patent doesn't mean this won't be challenged in the courts.

Ugh, I really don't like the thought of my games being "marked" by Sony. Sorta like...they pissed on your games. Dogs and fire hydrants, something like that. LOL

[FantasiaWHT]

this would probably work if sony convinced all of it's competitors to jump on the raft with them - then the consumer would be forced to except it or boycott it.

Yeah except that would violate all sorts of anti-trust laws hehe



The bright side of this system could be that games would cost the consumer less.

More likely the games would cost MORE because consumers wouldn't have a cheaper alternative so manufacturer's could raise their MSRPs.

[chrisbid]

Yeah except that would violate all sorts of anti-trust laws hehe




the movie industry bands together for anti-piracy standards all the time




we all know this is a raw deal, but if im not mistaken, isnt selling used games already illegal in japan?

[Captain Wrong]

*walks in topic*

Ever heard the phase "don't believe everything you here(or read)?

Just my two cents


*walks out of topic*

BUt it's $onY and they are teh eVil$$$$$$$.

And I love all the "I wouldnt' put this past Sony" like they're the only company that would do this if it was feasable. Come on. If anyone could figure out how to make this work (and not have the retailers rebel) they'd all do it.

Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered? Aside from that, I just don't see it happening...yet.

Really seems to me like people are reading about a patient and then jumping to conclusions on what's going to happen next. Gee...that never happens in the videogame world, does it? LOL

[drummy]

This would definitely hurt the PS3 in more ways than one.

[snes_collector]

*walks in topic*

Ever heard the phase "don't believe everything you here(or read)?

Just my two cents


*walks out of topic*

BUt it's $onY and they are teh eVil$$$$$$$.

And I love all the "I wouldnt' put this past Sony" like they're the only company that would do this if it was feasable. Come on. If anyone could figure out how to make this work (and not have the retailers rebel) they'd all do it.

Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered? Aside from that, I just don't see it happening...yet.

Really seems to me like people are reading about a patient and then jumping to conclusions on what's going to happen next. Gee...that never happens in the videogame world, does it? LOL

So do you agree what I said or are you saying my post was fanboyish? Because it wasn't.

[njiska]

Gamespot has decided to comment on the rumour. It's a bit more of the same but it's a good read.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23921409

[Arkaign]

I can't see this happening with things the way they are. It would take either total domination by one company, or agreement between the major players, for this to happen.

If Microsoft did this alone, the 360 would be a total failure.

If Sony did this alone, the PS3 would be a total failure.

If Nintendo did this alone, the Dev would be a total failure.

It's incredibly obvious. Used/Rented games are way to popular for this to be a viable option. Nobody is dumb enough to try this alone.

Microsoft has already done this with some of its products, but can do so because of it's utter and complete domination of the computer software OS market. If Linux or Mac had been viable alternatives for running the apps that people want to run, then it would have never flown.

Bottom line, this is Sony getting ready for a potential time when this will be the status quo for games. They are almost certainly not stupid enough to do this alone.

[cyberfluxor]

I doubt it because it would hurt retail stores that resell those games, possibly making it not worth it for them to even carry their titles. In addition, why do this when they are making it backwards compatible with the PS1 and PS2. In addition, what about those LAN parties where they share a disc for 4 players. We could go on many different angles as to why it could hurt their sales. :)

[Ed Oscuro]

Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered? Aside from that, I just don't see it happening...yet.
Well, I've posted excerpts from the patent, but if you want an understanding of how it works, you should read through it. It's basically a system whereby the console itself "marks" your disc. A code is read into the console's internal storage at some point, as well, and that is later used to check up against the disc. There's definitely some alteration to the disc done by the console as part of the process.

I don't know how technical this process was, but I have a feeling it was more a matter of thinking up the idea. Of course, this is a type of technology that the industry has wanted (and the music and movie industries as well) for a long time now; it simply wouldn't have worked on an open system like the PC (unless Sony wants to start selling plug-in Blu-Ray drives as well).

[Ed Oscuro]

I doubt it because it would hurt retail stores that resell those games, possibly making it not worth it for them to even carry their titles.
Perhaps Sony is planning on selling machines that can be used to "fix" the discs - that's what one commentator envisoned, though obviously that doesn't jive with what's being said. But yeah, this is throwing down the gauntlet to the retail industry. It'll be interesting to see if the retail outlets decide to say anything about it.

Still, I think it's pretty much a given that the PS3 will have this capability. Beta tests, again, would be a good way to utilize this: this is going back to what Captain Wrong was wondering about - you wouldn't need to go online to verify your game.

[Mangar]

Like i said on the very first page of this thread

One of the "features" of Blu-Ray DVD is the ability to do just that. IE: The marriage of a machine and a disc. This is one of the reasons 20th Century Fox chose the standard, and why most movie studios are on board. The only real "major" holdouts currently are Microsoft, Intel, and other Computer based companies who are worried about what this will do to home networks and Home Theatre PC. As things stand, you won't even be able to have a Blue-Ray DVD movie playing on one computer, and stream it over the network to another screen. (Much less copy ANY content to a Hard Disk. Which is why the computer companies haven't signed up yet) Negotiations are currently taking place as they all attempt to iron the final details out, but as things stand - Blue Ray will have the single most draconian copy protection measures ever yet seen.

Will this be enabled for PS3 games? Again: I doubt it, but it's not really that far fetched. Sony intends the PS3 to be there way of penetrating the marketplace with Blue-Ray disc players. Which means that movies will be able to take full effect of any/all of the copy protection measures available. It also gives the individual game manufacturers the option of utilizing whatever copy protection functions they like. Maybe a year or two into the PS3's existance, it wouldn't be a crazy thought to see a company putting out a super hot title - To really try and milk consumers by marrying the disc to the player. If the protection is built-in, then there really isn't much Sony could do to stop em. (Other then not licensing the title)

Currently however: Nothing is set in stone. All options are being debated and talked over. But about the only voice of reason in the debate is Microsoft, which pretty much says it all :) Just follow the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray arguments and press releases if you really wanna get an idea of exactly where this issue is heading. This sort of thing is really nothing new if you've been following the industry awhile. DVD's originally had to compete with the DiVX format of discs which some draconian copy protection measures as well. (Except DVD ended up winning.) IE: A movie would play 5 times, then become unwatchable.

[njiska]

Like i said on the very first page of this thread

One of the "features" of Blu-Ray DVD is the ability to do just that. IE: The marriage of a machine and a disc. This is one of the reasons 20th Century Fox chose the standard, and why most movie studios are on board. The only real "major" holdouts currently are Microsoft, Intel, and other Computer based companies who are worried about what this will do to home networks and Home Theatre PC. As things stand, you won't even be able to have a Blue-Ray DVD movie playing on one computer, and stream it over the network to another screen. (Much less copy ANY content to a Hard Disk. Which is why the computer companies haven't signed up yet) Negotiations are currently taking place as they all attempt to iron the final details out, but as things stand - Blue Ray will have the single most draconian copy protection measures ever yet seen.

Will this be enabled for PS3 games? Again: I doubt it, but it's not really that far fetched. Sony intends the PS3 to be there way of penetrating the marketplace with Blue-Ray disc players. Which means that movies will be able to take full effect of any/all of the copy protection measures available. It also gives the individual game manufacturers the option of utilizing whatever copy protection functions they like. Maybe a year or two into the PS3's existance, it wouldn't be a crazy thought to see a company putting out a super hot title - To really try and milk consumers by marrying the disc to the player. If the protection is built-in, then there really isn't much Sony could do to stop em. (Other then not licensing the title)

Currently however: Nothing is set in stone. All options are being debated and talked over. But about the only voice of reason in the debate is Microsoft, which pretty much says it all :) Just follow the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray arguments and press releases if you really wanna get an idea of exactly where this issue is heading. This sort of thing is really nothing new if you've been following the industry awhile. DVD's originally had to compete with the DiVX format of discs which some draconian copy protection measures as well. (Except DVD ended up winning.) IE: A movie would play 5 times, then become unwatchable.

That reminds me what ever happend to those disc's that were suppose to just break down in so many hours after being exposed to air. Another bad idea that went nowhere.

[evildead2099]

How can a system not play 'used' games? Does that mean that if I purchase Metal Gear Solid 4 and play it once, a P$3 will no longer play it because it has been "used"?

How the hell are people supposed to rent games as a means to testing them out if the P$3 won't support used games?

[evildead2099]

I wouldn't put it past Sony to try something like this. Keep in mind that they (and Microsoft and Nintendo) don't want you to buy used games because they don't get any profit off of it. Various people in the industry have already said they don't like places selling used games because of this

That's very true. Before the RIAA targeted P2P file-sharing, it unsuccessfully tried to put used CD outlets out of business in the 1980s.

Am I the only one who finds it strange that stores which sell new videogames (i.e. EB, Gamestop) also openly sell used videogames? Those very stores are doing the industry a disservice. Same goes for automobile dealerships which sell used cars, though.

[Howie6925]

Here is what I am not understanding about what people are saying, how would one PS3 know or the game for that matter know it is on another system. Am I going to put the the game in my friends PS3 and it tell me sorry it is installed on another system. Is there a way to rip information off a cd completely and rendering it useless on another system. I was all gung ho for the new PS3, but I dont know now. Ill have to put a wait and see attitude on the whole thing.

[Arkaign]

I wouldn't put it past Sony to try something like this. Keep in mind that they (and Microsoft and Nintendo) don't want you to buy used games because they don't get any profit off of it. Various people in the industry have already said they don't like places selling used games because of this

That's very true. Before the RIAA targeted P2P file-sharing, it unsuccessfully tried to put used CD outlets out of business in the 1980s.

Am I the only one who finds it strange that stores which sell new videogames (i.e. EB, Gamestop) also openly sell used videogames? Those very stores are doing the industry a disservice. Same goes for automobile dealerships which sell used cars, though.

That's not entirely true, think of what people buy after they sell their used games. MORE GAMES lol. Hell, a lot of the promotions are like "trade in x number of used titles, and get $ off of this new game". Not to mention that older games in series (these days almost everything is a sequel to a sequel to a sequel) are the #1 best advertising for the NEW version. I mean, dude gets game x part 2 for $18 used, then wants the brand new game x part 3, and then scrapes together the $45 to buy it.

All in all, I think its a wash, if you factor in potential loss of new game sales. Remember, regardless of what the game companies do, the consumers will still only have so much money that they can spend. The only proven rule is that a good title that is well reviewed and promoted will sell very well.

[Captain Wrong]

Well, I've posted excerpts from the patent, but if you want an understanding of how it works, you should read through it. It's basically a system whereby the console itself "marks" your disc. A code is read into the console's internal storage at some point, as well, and that is later used to check up against the disc. There's definitely some alteration to the disc done by the console as part of the process.

I don't know how technical this process was, but I have a feeling it was more a matter of thinking up the idea. Of course, this is a type of technology that the industry has wanted (and the music and movie industries as well) for a long time now; it simply wouldn't have worked on an open system like the PC (unless Sony wants to start selling plug-in Blu-Ray drives as well).

Gotcha. Maybe I missed that part. I guess marking the disc would be the only way that could work.




So do you agree what I said or are you saying my post was fanboyish? Because it wasn't.

No sir. I was agreeing with you. I too think when it comes to videogame stuff too many people take each rumor as the absolute gospel. Sorry for the confusion. :)

[DeputyMoniker]

That sounds like something $ony would do, if it's not in the PS3 it'll be in the PS4. If $ony can even survive that long... the PS3 will be on its knees giving it to the Xbox 360 by the time this next gen is over.

Go away.
Is there any way to filter this kids account so he can't reply to topics containing the following words:
Sony, Playstation, PS2, PS3, PSP, PS and anything else Sony or Playstation related.

[Spinal]

That sounds like something $ony would do, if it's not in the PS3 it'll be in the PS4. If $ony can even survive that long... the PS3 will be on its knees giving it to the Xbox 360 by the time this next gen is over.

Go away.
Is there any way to filter this kids account so he can't reply to topics containing the following words:
Sony, Playstation, PS2, PS3, PSP, PS and anything else Sony or Playstation related.

LMAO! I say filtering should affect anything videogame related :D Oh, and start enforcing a global policy whereby children aren't allowed on the internet without a responsable adult sitting next to them :P

Would solve alot of problems imo...

Spinal

[Ze_ro]

I can't see this happening with things the way they are. It would take either total domination by one company, or agreement between the major players, for this to happen.
Well, the good news then, is that now that Sony has a patent on this, it would mean that Nintendo and Microsoft would either have to pay royalties in order to use the technology, or find another way to cripple their games... in the long run, filing this patent might actually prevent other companies from doing this.


Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered?
Actually, I don't see how they can possibly rely on an internet connection to do any of the stuff they want it to do with Blu-Ray... I can easily imagine hackers just snooping on the IP traffic between the machine and the remote host, and then just hooking a computer in to spoof a reply that automatically verifies all discs as being legit. Naturally there will be encryption to deal with in there somewhere, but it's only a matter of time. Maybe there's extra technology involved here that I'm not aware of, but any data that leaves/enters the system can never be considered secure or trustworthy as far as the system is concerned.


How can a system not play 'used' games? Does that mean that if I purchase Metal Gear Solid 4 and play it once, a P$3 will no longer play it because it has been "used"?
No. The idea is that the game and your system will be "married" so that once you play the game on that system, it will refuse to run on any other systems.


think of what people buy after they sell their used games. MORE GAMES
For the most part, yeah... but you can't bank on that. I know plenty of people who have hocked their games to pay their rent. This is one of those hazy situations that the marketing-types and pointy-haired bosses don't like because they don't have enough control over it.

It's safe to say that even if Sony does try to do this, consumer and retail outrage will force them to stop. That seems to be the case with their recent attempts at DRM on audio CD's.

--Zero

[CartCollector]

Oh, and start enforcing a global policy whereby children aren't allowed on the internet without a responsable adult sitting next to them

Would solve alot of problems imo...

Well, you do have to be at least 13 to sign up to message boards, mmorpgs, etc. in the U.S. I think it's law. Problem is, no one checks.

[Griking]

Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered?

Actually, I don't see how they can possibly rely on an internet connection to do any of the stuff they want it to do with Blu-Ray... I can easily imagine hackers just snooping on the IP traffic between the machine and the remote host, and then just hooking a computer in to spoof a reply that automatically verifies all discs as being legit. Naturally there will be encryption to deal with in there somewhere, but it's only a matter of time. Maybe there's extra technology involved here that I'm not aware of, but any data that leaves/enters the system can never be considered secure or trustworthy as far as the system is concerned.


Perhaps the PS3 has the ability to burn to CDs and DVDs. Burning a serial number onto each disc would do the job.

[njiska]

Anyway, I read the article and as has been mentioned earlier, I'm not sure how this would work without an internet connection. How else is it going to check if the game is regestered?

Actually, I don't see how they can possibly rely on an internet connection to do any of the stuff they want it to do with Blu-Ray... I can easily imagine hackers just snooping on the IP traffic between the machine and the remote host, and then just hooking a computer in to spoof a reply that automatically verifies all discs as being legit. Naturally there will be encryption to deal with in there somewhere, but it's only a matter of time. Maybe there's extra technology involved here that I'm not aware of, but any data that leaves/enters the system can never be considered secure or trustworthy as far as the system is concerned.


Perhaps the PS3 has the ability to burn to CDs and DVDs. Burning a serial number onto each disc would do the job.

That's assuming that you can make a writable part on a pressed disc. It'd be an odd design but i'm sure it's far from impossible.

[Arkaign]

On a side note, if the drive in the PS3 is a burner, that would be freaking cool. I've already seen articles about a PS3 linux.. so the possibilities are pretty wide open.

[chrisbid]

even if hackers could find a way to get around this, the used game market at legit retailers would all but dry up. unless you sell the workaround with a used game, you couldnt sell used games to the public, and there would be all kinds of legal wrestling over that.

but again, its all wait and see. but the more DMR stuff i read about sony, the less likely i am to purchase a PS3, regaurdless of how this particular issue pans out.

[exit]

I don't see how they can be against the the sale of used games, especially if the game is out of print or for a dead console. It would make sequels pointless, because new copies of games won't be sold forever, so you're screwed when MGS5 comes out. Unless there is a proccess where you can register/unregister your games, this whole thing seems unlikely.

I could also imagine sales on E-bay on sealed games, it would make the absurd even more absurd.

[n8littlefield]

I would say the only legit way to check for used games sales would be some type of online system, because you certainly can't tell someone that if they have 2 PS3's in their house they can't play the game on both. Given that there are, and will always be, gamers who don't want to play online, it seems like implementation would be impossible.

[chrisbid]

I don't see how they can be against the the sale of used games, especially if the game is out of print or for a dead console. It would make sequels pointless, because new copies of games won't be sold forever, so you're screwed when MGS5 comes out. Unless there is a proccess where you can register/unregister your games, this whole thing seems unlikely.

I could also imagine sales on E-bay on sealed games, it would make the absurd even more absurd.

im sure they kept their eyes on how well the steam system worked with halflife 2-worked on the PC. its a pretty fair assumption that internet access is cheap enough (dialup is only 10 bucks a month) that it can be required to use a high end console.


I would say the only legit way to check for used games sales would be some type of online system, because you certainly can't tell someone that if they have 2 PS3's in their house they can't play the game on both. Given that there are, and will always be, gamers who don't want to play online, it seems like implementation would be impossible.

we all agree that the idea is shortsighted, but there are corporate bean counters at sony that disagree. they also truely believe their own inflated numbers on their "losses" due to piracy (as if every pirated copy of a game produced comes at the expense of a sale of a new game).

[Ed Oscuro]

Since this is apparently the thread for this discussion, I guess it's time to give it the ol' bump because this story is not going away.

GamesRadar article (http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006).

[Ed Oscuro]

Since this is apparently the thread for this discussion, I guess it's time to give it the ol' bump because this story is not going away.

GamesRadar article (http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006).

[cyberfluxor]

Well, believe it or not I think it's a great idea. It would stablize the next generation of video games in the market place and keep a strong hold on things. If you can only get it new and it's out of production, then ones sealed would be worth unbelieveable amounts of money, making it a strong investment. Plus if you ever sell your system, all games must go with it so many great bulk buys will be seen. Most will dislike the taste of this marketing scheme but we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

[cyberfluxor]

Well, believe it or not I think it's a great idea. It would stablize the next generation of video games in the market place and keep a strong hold on things. If you can only get it new and it's out of production, then ones sealed would be worth unbelieveable amounts of money, making it a strong investment. Plus if you ever sell your system, all games must go with it so many great bulk buys will be seen. Most will dislike the taste of this marketing scheme but we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

[Ed Oscuro]

It would stablize the next generation of video games in the market place and keep a strong hold on things.
WELL I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT SOMEBODY ELSE WELCOMES OUR ALIEN OVERLORDS


If you can only get it new and it's out of production, then ones sealed would be worth unbelieveable amounts of money, making it a strong investment.
News Flash: Resale is ILLEGAL. You only license the content. :roll: Judging from the fact that Valve charges you a fee ($10) to transfer games on Steam, it's no great leap to consider that Sony would probably be able to pressure eBay and other auction sites to delist resales of PS3 games.

This is a terrible idea and if this sort of content management aimed at making us peasants in the digital age with no ability to create libraries to call our own.

[Ed Oscuro]

It would stablize the next generation of video games in the market place and keep a strong hold on things.
WELL I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT SOMEBODY ELSE WELCOMES OUR ALIEN OVERLORDS


If you can only get it new and it's out of production, then ones sealed would be worth unbelieveable amounts of money, making it a strong investment.
News Flash: Resale is ILLEGAL. You only license the content. :roll: Judging from the fact that Valve charges you a fee ($10) to transfer games on Steam, it's no great leap to consider that Sony would probably be able to pressure eBay and other auction sites to delist resales of PS3 games.

This is a terrible idea and if this sort of content management aimed at making us peasants in the digital age with no ability to create libraries to call our own.

[cyberfluxor]

Do whatever you want, you have choices. I'll get a PS3 if I feel and will buy depending on how they market themselves. At this rate though if I do buy the system I'd just get the major titles that I know I'll enjoy a lot. In addition though, I don't have a PS2 so don't call me some $ony f4nb0i or some other crap. Shoot, I don't even have an Xbawx.

[cyberfluxor]

Do whatever you want, you have choices. I'll get a PS3 if I feel and will buy depending on how they market themselves. At this rate though if I do buy the system I'd just get the major titles that I know I'll enjoy a lot. In addition though, I don't have a PS2 so don't call me some $ony f4nb0i or some other crap. Shoot, I don't even have an Xbawx.

[Ed Oscuro]

In addition though, I don't have a PS2 so don't call me some $ony f4nb0i or some other crap.
No, but I don't think it's a great disservice to correct you in ways of thinking that are flawed. It seems that the PS3 may indeed lock games to specific consoles once they are sold, so the only way to sell a used PS3 game might be to sell the console it was originally used on as well. Hardly a bargain from where I'm standing...

[Ed Oscuro]

In addition though, I don't have a PS2 so don't call me some $ony f4nb0i or some other crap.
No, but I don't think it's a great disservice to correct you in ways of thinking that are flawed. It seems that the PS3 may indeed lock games to specific consoles once they are sold, so the only way to sell a used PS3 game might be to sell the console it was originally used on as well. Hardly a bargain from where I'm standing...

[GarrettCRW]

If Sony actually goes forth with this crazy idea, they deserve to go out of business. Then, maybe, media companies will hold off on treating their paying customers like thieves.

[GarrettCRW]

If Sony actually goes forth with this crazy idea, they deserve to go out of business. Then, maybe, media companies will hold off on treating their paying customers like thieves.

[studvicious]

I do agree that the developers and publishers should get a cut from the used game sales, I have no problem with that. But if Sony were to pull something like this that would be crazy. But on the other hand I'm sure it wouldn't take someone long to find "other ways" around it. :)

[studvicious]

I do agree that the developers and publishers should get a cut from the used game sales, I have no problem with that. But if Sony were to pull something like this that would be crazy. But on the other hand I'm sure it wouldn't take someone long to find "other ways" around it. :)

[Poofta!]

i completely agree with Ed on this, this is a terrible terrible idea for all gamers. and might mean the end of their system. some of you know that im very pro-ps3, but if this comes through, i will NOT be buying one.

[Poofta!]

i completely agree with Ed on this, this is a terrible terrible idea for all gamers. and might mean the end of their system. some of you know that im very pro-ps3, but if this comes through, i will NOT be buying one.

[smork]

I'm interested in the PS3 (after a nice price drop) -- but I am not interested if I can't get used games for it. I'm just not paying full retail for every game. I do it for maybe 5-10% of my games now.

It'll just be another thing for hackers to fix on the console, and if they do implement this expect to see a chip circumventing this down the road.

[smork]

I'm interested in the PS3 (after a nice price drop) -- but I am not interested if I can't get used games for it. I'm just not paying full retail for every game. I do it for maybe 5-10% of my games now.

It'll just be another thing for hackers to fix on the console, and if they do implement this expect to see a chip circumventing this down the road.

[Push Upstairs]

I like the idea of Blu Ray (i'm in favor of more space for more content..if it should get used)

But i don't agree with this line of thinking, its stupid and will backfire.

If Sony implements this into thier system then hand me a pitchfork and let me join the angry mob. :angry:

[Push Upstairs]

I like the idea of Blu Ray (i'm in favor of more space for more content..if it should get used)

But i don't agree with this line of thinking, its stupid and will backfire.

If Sony implements this into thier system then hand me a pitchfork and let me join the angry mob. :angry:

[chrisbid]

I do agree that the developers and publishers should get a cut from the used game sales, I have no problem with that. But if Sony were to pull something like this that would be crazy. But on the other hand I'm sure it wouldn't take someone long to find "other ways" around it. :)

they do get a cut from used game sales, how do you think kids afford to buy new games? they trade in old stuff for credit toward new games and systems. and if gamEBstop didnt do as well as it does with second hand sales, then they would not be able to stock as many new titles as they do (which is far wider range than walmart or other box stores)

[chrisbid]

I do agree that the developers and publishers should get a cut from the used game sales, I have no problem with that. But if Sony were to pull something like this that would be crazy. But on the other hand I'm sure it wouldn't take someone long to find "other ways" around it. :)

they do get a cut from used game sales, how do you think kids afford to buy new games? they trade in old stuff for credit toward new games and systems. and if gamEBstop didnt do as well as it does with second hand sales, then they would not be able to stock as many new titles as they do (which is far wider range than walmart or other box stores)

[GarrettCRW]

It'll just be another thing for hackers to fix on the console, and if they do implement this expect to see a chip circumventing this down the road.

And you can be assured that Sony will do the firmware upgrade thing that acts to deter people from messing with their PSPs.

[GarrettCRW]

It'll just be another thing for hackers to fix on the console, and if they do implement this expect to see a chip circumventing this down the road.

And you can be assured that Sony will do the firmware upgrade thing that acts to deter people from messing with their PSPs.

[Anthony1]

To be totally honest, this is actually a very good idea for Sony, and the Publishers, but it's horrible for everybody else. Why is it a good idea? Well, it's a very good idea, because it counters the actions of people like me.


You see, I will not purchase "ANY" brand new retail game that costs more than $19.99. It simply isn't logical for me. Why? Simple. Rental Plans. There are so many good rental plans available nowadays, that actually buying games for anything more than $19.99 isn't logical. I can rent Xbox 360 games for $3.50 for a 30 day period. Now, If I went out and bought a Xbox 360 game brand new for $59.99 plus tax, we are talking $64.64 grand total. Well, just divide that amount by $3.50. That means I could rent that same game for 18 months if I really wanted to, for the same price as buying it brand new.

Now, I don't know about you, but I typically only play my games for like 3 or 4 months, and then they just sit on the shelf and collect dust. I'm talking about current and next generation games, mind you. Wtih the passing of time, when games become "classics", I can return to them a number of times, but for the vast majority of new retail games, I only play them for a few months and then that's about it. I move on to something else. With paying $3.50 per month, it only costs me $14 to keep it for 4 months, which is typically as much time as I need. Some games, I only play them for 1 month or 2, and some I can play for 6 or 8 months, but it averages out to about 4 months. I don't know about you, but I would much rather pay $14 than $64.64.


Now, I understand that the person that pays $65 can keep it for 4 months and then sell it on Craigslist or Ebay or whatever, but there is no question that they are going to take a larger loss than $14, plus they have all that money tied up in that game for nothing. Plus, as fast as prices are dropping on games, that game could be on sale someplace for $39.99 or $29.99 4 months later, and you have to sell the used one that much cheaper just to sell it. And don't even get me started on trade ins. The amount of $ that they give people for trade ins, is a complete joke.


Buying brand new retail games for more than $19.99 or $24.99 just doesn't make any sense with the rental plans that are now currently available. The advent of Monthly rental plans has completely changed my buying habits and I'm sure I'm not alone. Sony knows that this is going on, and they are very worried that people like me will buy a PS3 on launch day, but won't buy anything else. Because that is exactly what I was planning on doing. The only money that I'll be spending on PS3 launch day is the $599.99 price and the tax. I have absolutely no plans to purchase anything else. I have absolutely no plans to actually buy any PS3 software. I plan on renting PS3 games exclusively.


Having said that, there will be a day when games for the 360 and PS3 find their way into a bargain bin, for $19.99 or $14.99 or $9.99 or whatever, and at that point, If it's a game I'm interested in, then maybe, just maybe, I'll actually buy it.

[Anthony1]

To be totally honest, this is actually a very good idea for Sony, and the Publishers, but it's horrible for everybody else. Why is it a good idea? Well, it's a very good idea, because it counters the actions of people like me.


You see, I will not purchase "ANY" brand new retail game that costs more than $19.99. It simply isn't logical for me. Why? Simple. Rental Plans. There are so many good rental plans available nowadays, that actually buying games for anything more than $19.99 isn't logical. I can rent Xbox 360 games for $3.50 for a 30 day period. Now, If I went out and bought a Xbox 360 game brand new for $59.99 plus tax, we are talking $64.64 grand total. Well, just divide that amount by $3.50. That means I could rent that same game for 18 months if I really wanted to, for the same price as buying it brand new.

Now, I don't know about you, but I typically only play my games for like 3 or 4 months, and then they just sit on the shelf and collect dust. I'm talking about current and next generation games, mind you. Wtih the passing of time, when games become "classics", I can return to them a number of times, but for the vast majority of new retail games, I only play them for a few months and then that's about it. I move on to something else. With paying $3.50 per month, it only costs me $14 to keep it for 4 months, which is typically as much time as I need. Some games, I only play them for 1 month or 2, and some I can play for 6 or 8 months, but it averages out to about 4 months. I don't know about you, but I would much rather pay $14 than $64.64.


Now, I understand that the person that pays $65 can keep it for 4 months and then sell it on Craigslist or Ebay or whatever, but there is no question that they are going to take a larger loss than $14, plus they have all that money tied up in that game for nothing. Plus, as fast as prices are dropping on games, that game could be on sale someplace for $39.99 or $29.99 4 months later, and you have to sell the used one that much cheaper just to sell it. And don't even get me started on trade ins. The amount of $ that they give people for trade ins, is a complete joke.


Buying brand new retail games for more than $19.99 or $24.99 just doesn't make any sense with the rental plans that are now currently available. The advent of Monthly rental plans has completely changed my buying habits and I'm sure I'm not alone. Sony knows that this is going on, and they are very worried that people like me will buy a PS3 on launch day, but won't buy anything else. Because that is exactly what I was planning on doing. The only money that I'll be spending on PS3 launch day is the $599.99 price and the tax. I have absolutely no plans to purchase anything else. I have absolutely no plans to actually buy any PS3 software. I plan on renting PS3 games exclusively.


Having said that, there will be a day when games for the 360 and PS3 find their way into a bargain bin, for $19.99 or $14.99 or $9.99 or whatever, and at that point, If it's a game I'm interested in, then maybe, just maybe, I'll actually buy it.

[DeputyMoniker]

How old is that quote?

It was on the front page of next-gen.biz yesterday. (actually its still the featured story now)

[DeputyMoniker]

How old is that quote?

It was on the front page of next-gen.biz yesterday. (actually its still the featured story now)

[studvicious]

they do get a cut from used game sales, how do you think kids afford to buy new games? they trade in old stuff for credit toward new games and systems. and if gamEBstop didnt do as well as it does with second hand sales, then they would not be able to stock as many new titles as they do (which is far wider range than walmart or other box stores)

No they don't actually. I'm talking about someone buying the game at full price whether it be at EB Games, Gamestop, Wal-Mart wherever and then trading that game in. They (the dev., pub., Sony etc.) only get money from the original sale. NOT when EB, GS resell that game over and over again when someone brings it in used. And then Sony and other companies are getting PO'd having to give customer service to people who never really bought anything from THEM in the first place.

[studvicious]

they do get a cut from used game sales, how do you think kids afford to buy new games? they trade in old stuff for credit toward new games and systems. and if gamEBstop didnt do as well as it does with second hand sales, then they would not be able to stock as many new titles as they do (which is far wider range than walmart or other box stores)

No they don't actually. I'm talking about someone buying the game at full price whether it be at EB Games, Gamestop, Wal-Mart wherever and then trading that game in. They (the dev., pub., Sony etc.) only get money from the original sale. NOT when EB, GS resell that game over and over again when someone brings it in used. And then Sony and other companies are getting PO'd having to give customer service to people who never really bought anything from THEM in the first place.

[FantasiaWHT]

Gamefaq's poll today is about whether or not you would buy a system on which you couldn't play used or rented games.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2387

Not as skewed to not buying one as I'd thought, but with the gamefaq's crowd who knows if that means anything. Yet there is a good point on there... If (really big if here, cause I doubt Sony would do it) the price point for a brand new game dropped significantly, that might molify a decent portion of the used-game buyers.

Here's a question... how many ignorant parents etc. would get ripped off on ebay trying to find a cheap used copy of a PS3 game? heh.

[FantasiaWHT]

Gamefaq's poll today is about whether or not you would buy a system on which you couldn't play used or rented games.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2387

Not as skewed to not buying one as I'd thought, but with the gamefaq's crowd who knows if that means anything. Yet there is a good point on there... If (really big if here, cause I doubt Sony would do it) the price point for a brand new game dropped significantly, that might molify a decent portion of the used-game buyers.

Here's a question... how many ignorant parents etc. would get ripped off on ebay trying to find a cheap used copy of a PS3 game? heh.

[jdc]

This is an awesome idea that I've been hoping would see the light of day eventually.

This is also an idea that I've been dreading. It depends on which side of the fence you want to stand on.

Having worked in the game industry, I know all too well the fact that the rental of games and sales of used games do nothing much for game developers, but do everything for gameshop owners and places like Blockbuster, since used and rental is where the profit margins occur. You might get someone to rent a game and like it enough to buy a new copy, but in most cases a person will rent a game for 3 days and be done with it, whether he's finished or not. I'm not referring to the kinds of "hardcore" gamers that you see here on DP, I'm talking about Joe Walmart who demands his right to game for next to nothing.

It used to piss me off that you'd get people that would excitedly line up to buy the latest new console, and then proceed to rent games for the next year or gush about the "gotta have" new releases and how they would wait like vultures until a used copy shows up. It's pretty lame when you get requests to reserve used copies on the day that new a title is released. The average casual gamer has entire harddrives full of incomplete game files. These people can't afford their gaming jones, so why bother in the first place? And why cater to them? What if EVERYONE rented or purchased only used games? Where would that leave game developers? How would you feel about taking years to create new product that had a great chance of NOT selling through? You'd eventually throw in the towel completely or at least cut back your development of new software.

The only negative that I can see from the consumer side of the fence is that collectors would be left out in the cold IF they wanted libraries that were capable of actually being played in machines. I'd personally love to see Joe Walmart burn for once.

For the record, I don't think that this idea will ever see the light of day, unless all three of the big guys were to incorporate it.

[jdc]

This is an awesome idea that I've been hoping would see the light of day eventually.

This is also an idea that I've been dreading. It depends on which side of the fence you want to stand on.

Having worked in the game industry, I know all too well the fact that the rental of games and sales of used games do nothing much for game developers, but do everything for gameshop owners and places like Blockbuster, since used and rental is where the profit margins occur. You might get someone to rent a game and like it enough to buy a new copy, but in most cases a person will rent a game for 3 days and be done with it, whether he's finished or not. I'm not referring to the kinds of "hardcore" gamers that you see here on DP, I'm talking about Joe Walmart who demands his right to game for next to nothing.

It used to piss me off that you'd get people that would excitedly line up to buy the latest new console, and then proceed to rent games for the next year or gush about the "gotta have" new releases and how they would wait like vultures until a used copy shows up. It's pretty lame when you get requests to reserve used copies on the day that new a title is released. The average casual gamer has entire harddrives full of incomplete game files. These people can't afford their gaming jones, so why bother in the first place? And why cater to them? What if EVERYONE rented or purchased only used games? Where would that leave game developers? How would you feel about taking years to create new product that had a great chance of NOT selling through? You'd eventually throw in the towel completely or at least cut back your development of new software.

The only negative that I can see from the consumer side of the fence is that collectors would be left out in the cold IF they wanted libraries that were capable of actually being played in machines. I'd personally love to see Joe Walmart burn for once.

For the record, I don't think that this idea will ever see the light of day, unless all three of the big guys were to incorporate it.

[WanganRunner]

I think that this is really going to turn into a battle between the game companies and the retail companies.

I mean, you or I would definitely be hurt by this development, but EB would be hurt much more. Ever notice how much they bug you and incentivize you to turn in your old games? That's because the used market carries massive profit margins for them, far higher than the new market does for any item.

I can almost see EB refusing to carry any hardware that doesn't allow for used game sales. That would be a HUGE blow to any game company endorsing a "no preowned" policy. Sure, in some parts of the country, people buy more games at WalMart or whatever, but I know that where I live, I don't even know where a Walmart IS. It's ALL EB and stuff like that, little stores.

[WanganRunner]

I think that this is really going to turn into a battle between the game companies and the retail companies.

I mean, you or I would definitely be hurt by this development, but EB would be hurt much more. Ever notice how much they bug you and incentivize you to turn in your old games? That's because the used market carries massive profit margins for them, far higher than the new market does for any item.

I can almost see EB refusing to carry any hardware that doesn't allow for used game sales. That would be a HUGE blow to any game company endorsing a "no preowned" policy. Sure, in some parts of the country, people buy more games at WalMart or whatever, but I know that where I live, I don't even know where a Walmart IS. It's ALL EB and stuff like that, little stores.

[sabre2922]

IF any of this is even REMOTELY true then the only next-gen systems I will get are the Wii and 360 and continue collecting for the PS2.

Fucking Sony is out of control with the whole Playstation 3 thing from the pricing to this whole Big Brother 1984 type bullshit.

[sabre2922]

IF any of this is even REMOTELY true then the only next-gen systems I will get are the Wii and 360 and continue collecting for the PS2.

Fucking Sony is out of control with the whole Playstation 3 thing from the pricing to this whole Big Brother 1984 type bullshit.

[Flack]

This has been debunked several times, most recently by Sony.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/24/rumor-sony-to-disable-used-ps3-games-sony-nope/