IT'S OVER! Check out the top 10 and full list! [Archive] - Page 2

Anthony1

03-27-2006, 02:12 AM

The 2nd installment took a long time to show up!

Anyway, it's nice to see Daytona USA recognised, although someone should have mentioned that despite how well the game plays, it features awful graphics compared to the arcade version.

It's the Daytona USA series as in all platforms the original was released on, not just the Saturn port. And Anthony1, you're nuts - walk into ANY arcade worth it's salt TO THIS DAY and there will be at least one Daytona USA machine. The coin-ops are one of the oldest games to still consistantly make top tier coinage. Locations that have 4 - 8 of the large hydraulic machines networked ALWAYS have people on them. I dare say it's the most popular arcade game of all time in terms of longevity, they're still always being played, always making big money, people still actively complete, and it's still a total blast to play in the arcade against five or six human opponents. Name another 10+ year old arcade game that still makes the same high money now as it did when it was released. I still drop about $50 a summer in the machines in Santa Cruz.

I must admit that I've only played the Arcade game once, and I found it to be an incredible game for it's time, but I'm just not a big arcade guy. I'm a console guy. I'm more talking about it from a Saturn standpoint, then an Arcade standpoint. But I must admit that I'm not really the person to ask about how good the Arcade version stacks up with the best games of all time. I simply haven't been exposed to it enough. I went to Arcades in the 70's and 80's but didn't really visit them in the 90's at all. Not any arcades that had the expensive top of the line games like that.

lostchild

03-27-2006, 12:46 PM

Rest assured - Daytona Kicked ass. Even in '99 when I played it in Gatwick airport. My brother and I just finished a go and 6 other kids ran up to the machines and hopped in (they had been watching in awe X_x - haha) and an 8 player race ensued. Amazing. Totally awesome game too.

Shame I missed the voting. I'll be tuning in to see how good you guys are... 8-)

goatdan

03-27-2006, 10:17 PM

Name another 10+ year old arcade game that still makes the same high money now as it did when it was released. I still drop about $50 a summer in the machines in Santa Cruz.

Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga.

Also Area 51 and Maximum Force (in various combos).

Those always make the top 25 earners list for arcades it seems... along with Daytona and Rush 2049. I've always found it interesting that some arcade games literally never go away.

Do I think that Daytona deserved a top 100 spot? Absolutely. It's a blast as a multiplayer game, and while the Saturn port wasn't as good graphically, the gameplay all made the transistion just about perfectly.

I hope that all of the other games above find their way into the top 80, although I bet that Area 51 / Maximum Force will be overlooked. Very interesting list so far!

InsaneDavid

03-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Lothars

03-27-2006, 11:44 PM

Day 2 have to say it it really good I am impressed :D

very nice job guys

goatdan

03-28-2006, 12:21 AM

Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga don't make anywhere near what they did when they were introduced but they still make good day to day coin in most locations.

They still often appeared in PlayMeter's top 25 games, pretty much all the way until the combo game came out. They might not have made the same amount as when they originally came out, but arcades were in a completely different state at that time than when Daytona came out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter what way you look at it, Daytona USA belongs in a very elite class with arcade games that have really continued to do well throughout the ages -- a class that really only contains at most a handful of games.

googlefest1

03-28-2006, 08:29 AM

finally, so far 2 from my list made it --

waiting for this week to week thing is worse than the original wait

how about 2000 meseta for the whole list :D

Icarus Moonsight

03-28-2006, 07:09 PM

If you wanted a write-up for WB3 Dragon Trap, you should have asked one of us that have filled our "items" with those characters hehe.

Who are these people you speak of? Who would have WB3 "items" here? **glances down** Oh yeah, right... LOL

Anthony1

03-29-2006, 12:31 PM

You know what, I popped in Daytona for the Saturn yesturday, and I owe everybody that voted for Daytona a big apology. That game is damn good. I mean, I played the thing a bunch when I originally had a Saturn, and then I played it when I rediscovered the Saturn when I went retro, but for some reason, I forgot just how fun that game is.

The music is great, the sound effects are great, even the game over sequence is great. I mean, even when you enter your initials it's great!!! Sure, the graphics have pop up galore, there aren't as many cars on the tracks, and it can be a little bit glitchy, but damn that is a fine piece of software. I actually like the original better than the other Saturn one that came later. Part of it is the music. I know some people hate the music of the original, but to me, it just adds character to the game. It suits the game. It is Daytona.

Still, having said all of that, Sega Rally is still the best racing game on the Saturn, with Daytona a close second. As good as Sega Rally is, I don't think it made my top 25 list, so I'm still kinda suprised that Daytona got that high on enough people's lists, but it's all gravy. I can understand now.

InsaneDavid

03-29-2006, 02:41 PM

...there aren't as many cars on the tracks

:hmm: The amount of cars on track is equal to the single player (non linked) setup in the arcade: 39 rivals for Three Seven Speedway (Beginner), 19 rivals for Dinosaur Canyon (Advanced), 29 rivals for Seaside Street Galaxy (Expert). It still looks nowhere as nice as the arcade version but it plays great and looks good enough to still be a blast at home.

I actually like the original better than the other Saturn one that came later. Part of it is the music. I know some people hate the music of the original, but to me, it just adds character to the game. It suits the game. It is Daytona.

Agreed, the new soundtrack for Circuit Edition blew and Sega reacted to the fan reaction by changing things in the Japanese release that came out a few months after the US release. In addition to the new Eric Martin tunes (that we all hate) they added the option to use the ORIGINAL arcade music for Three Seven Speedway, Dinosaur Canyon, and Seaside Street Galaxy. The Saturn port of the original didn't use the exact Daytona USA arcade music yet it was VERY similar and thereby not a big deal. I also didn't like how the left and right sides of each car were mirrors of one another in Circuit Edition although I'm sure that was a graphic trick to pull off the increased draw distance and detail. Still, with the addition of the original arcade music for the three original tracks, the Japanese version of Circuit Edition is much better - still do like the original Daytona USA more myself though. :)

Daytona USA on the Dreamcast (Daytona USA 2001 in Japan) was also a nice addition once you get the control down, a loving tribute from Sega to one of their greatest arcade franchises. Yeah, it looks better than the original arcade Daytona USA but there are some changes (the roller coaster removed from National Park Speedway - looks more like a state park than an amusement park now) and I've never liked any design of the Hornet stock car as much as the original. I'm too damn picky about that - right down to "Since 1992" on the hood in the arcade and "Since 1994" on the hood in the Saturn and PC versions. Oh man, I'm starting to sound like airraid. LOL

Ruudos

03-29-2006, 04:31 PM

It was a hard way to pull the distinction, but I believe the SMS/GG version is a bit different to the original MD/Genesis version...? Hence a reason for separating them.

Yes it is quite different. BTW, the GG/Master System game was released after the Genesis' release.

ahamilton0953

03-31-2006, 09:33 AM

when are we getting the 3rd installment????????? I'm fiending over here!

googlefest1

03-31-2006, 10:19 AM

MY top 25 list changed already -- i didn't think it would take such a short while before i would add a title to that list.

GrayFox

04-01-2006, 02:00 PM

One could only hope Sonic CD is way up on the list.

Please.

I'll take a high ranking for Sonic 2 though. Either or.

theMot

04-03-2006, 03:02 AM

an update wouldn't go astray...

AB Positive

04-03-2006, 09:06 AM

an update wouldn't go astray...

And it didn't. It tried to but I wrangled it to the ground and told it SIT!

... update up, let the phantasy star worship/complaining begin!

-AB+

FantasiaWHT

04-03-2006, 09:13 AM

... update up, let the phantasy star worship/complaining begin!

-AB+

Three Phantasy Star Games!........

......

ONLY MADE IT TO THE 70's??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!

WHAT THE BLOODY BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP RACKIN' FARKIN' BING BONG BARKIN'!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

All three of those were in my top ten hehe. I knew I should've created a few more accounts and started ballot-box stuffing.

scooterb23

04-03-2006, 09:18 AM

Heh, I haven't played a single game in this section of the list.

Still a fun read...keep it going!!

googlefest1

04-03-2006, 10:54 AM

Wow, I had my doubts that civII was going to make it.

I'm surprised to see phantasy star so low.

Will Star Control II ever be seen on this list?

Tune in next time. Same dp time, same dp channel.

drwily008

04-03-2006, 12:12 PM

Very good list today! I love the fact that the 3 best Phantasy Stars, Mario RPG, and 2 SNK games are all grouped together.

I'll have to play Civ II one day though, I was always a Age of Empires fan.

I really wish Wind Waker made it a little higher...but I am still really glad it made it. Only on DP will you not hear about it's "child-like" gameplay, that game is eons ahead of it's time!

blissfulnoise

04-03-2006, 12:46 PM

Yeah, that's pretty sad that the Phantasy Star games are only ranked that high.

I'm afraid that having three fairly popular games in the series split the vote. (And I bet Phantasy Star Online doesn't make an appearance despite the fact it was an excellent game and was the first real reason to play a console online)

Have actually played all of those games at launch, I can say with a degree of authority that Phantasy Star II deserves a much higher spot.

People don't realize what a truly amazing game that was, and still is. People made such a big deal about Aerith getting slain by Seppy in the first third of FFVII. Folks from my generation realize Sega did it better when Nei was slain half way through Phantasy Star II.

And the game was epic beyond all expectations at the time. Nothing seen on a console before had even come close to the scope of PSII.

In any case, this series of games has stood as a bit of a disappointment with Civilization II. Assume that the original, or subsequent, iterations don't make an appearance, it's position in the list is a travesty. Civilization II is the most important turn based strategy game of all time. More than X-Com, more than Heroes of Might and Magic II. I'd say it's the most important strategy game of all time.

It does say something about the nature of these forums in that there wasn't a "personal take" on the game. At our classic gaming night, if we asked who hadn't played Civilization II, and someone raised their hand, I'd punch them in the face and they'd know that they deserved it. Likewise for Star Control II. But, since this is primarily a console forum, I should expect a little disappointment in the PC realm of things.

But, anyway, I'll withhold my total bitch fest until this thing is seen through. People should keep in mind that I don't think there were that many votes (80 or so I thought) so everything should be swallowed with a couple of grains of salt.

googlefest1

04-03-2006, 01:12 PM

As much as I agree with what you said. This list was a favorites list, not an importance list. I would guess that people here would have voted differently if it was a importance list, voting for games that aren�t their favorites but felt they were important.

It should also be kept in mind that this was a favorites list. � I don�t know how many people treated it as such but I did.

So far only one of my top 5 favorite games made it. Civ 2 was my number 4. I wonder what was the total number of points it got.

AB Positive

04-03-2006, 02:00 PM

after the full Top 100 is listed, the entire list with point scoring will be posted. I don't think the tiebreakers will make it on there, but overall you can see where everything placed.

I know #101 will cause riots, but that's later on ;)

-AB+

InsaneDavid

04-03-2006, 02:58 PM

I really wish Wind Waker made it a little higher...but I am still really glad it made it. Only on DP will you not hear about it's "child-like" gameplay, that game is eons ahead of it's time!

Same here, it's great to see it on the list. It was one of the few modern era games that reminded me of playing NES titles for the first time when I was six or seven. Also one of the few games where I just shut everything down for a couple days straight to enjoy it.

You're stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllll in a drrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeaaaaammmm... SNNNNNAAAAKKKEEE EEEEAAAAATTTTEEERRRRrrr....

Could have been a bit more on MGS3, I mean, Hideo Kojima did weave the Metal Gear plotline into factual history pretty damn well. Taking the Jupiter IRBM's out of Turkey being a ruse (which it was, for other reasons) to cover up the Soviet Union pulling out of Cuba just to retrieve Sokalov? Come on, that was excellent storycrafting. And you get to finally meet the man who originally created the idea of Metal Gear - and why they are called "Metal Gear" be explained.

I won't get into Phantasy Star II the same reason why I don't get into Final Fantasy III / VI. :roll: "Lalala, same thing... try to support more than half the game based on the battle system alone... not fun enough to do that.. lalala..." LOL

chrisbid

04-03-2006, 03:49 PM

too many rpgs

Teknik_SE-R

04-03-2006, 07:22 PM

If you didn't vote, its your own damn fault. If you did, don't worry, they'll thin out towards the top

goatdan

04-03-2006, 07:53 PM

Wow. I'm pretty sure that none of my games have yet made it on the list...

I am now left to wonder what will happen. I don't remember if I voted (I *think* I did, as I made a list) but I've been quite surprised so far.

classicb

04-03-2006, 08:19 PM

As much as I agree with what you said. This list was a favorites list, not an importance list. I would guess that people here would have voted differently if it was a importance list, voting for games that aren�t their favorites but felt they were important.

true indeed. I brought this up in the original thread before I voted and I was told to pick my favorite games not games I felt were important. Which is why Wall Street Kid made my list but no RPGs did. I know RPGs are important and I know which ones are the best but I'd rather play Wall Street Kid. :P

Jumpman Jr.

04-03-2006, 08:21 PM

I'm glad that Windwaker made the list, cause it was somewhere on the list I made when I voted.
Good stuff so far.

FireMillen

04-03-2006, 08:30 PM

still not the first single game of mine has made it to the list (and i voted too :) )
hehe.

The phanasy star series seems to be popular in the 70 range. I have never seen one in the wild and that's saying alot. I wish we could get on with this list I'm personally hyperventilating to see if my favorite game of all time made this list. And that game is ........

...
.
.

.... *L**m* *****E

dreamcaster

04-03-2006, 09:31 PM

Civilization II, Pokemon Blue and Capcom vs. SNK 2 are my picks of the bunch for the 3rd round.

And I'm pretty sure I voted for CvS2 too!

Ninja Blacksox

04-03-2006, 11:42 PM

I know #101 will cause riots, but that's later on ;)

It had better not be "Baseball Stars," dammit...

You DID say that it made the top 100, no?

-A Boy

evildead2099

04-04-2006, 12:35 AM

101 is probably Mario is Missing LOL

Phantasy Star 1, 2, and 4 show up in the 70s... What are the chances that Phantasy Star 3 will show up in a position < 70? 8-)

PS3 is the black sheep of the original PS series...

FantasiaWHT

04-04-2006, 08:13 AM

101 is probably Mario is Missing LOL

Phantasy Star 1, 2, and 4 show up in the 70s... What are the chances that Phantasy Star 3 will show up in a position < 70? 8-)

Almost none, but it was in my top 25 :)

FantasiaWHT

04-04-2006, 08:14 AM

Julio III

04-04-2006, 06:27 PM

Wo, 3 Phantasy Stars almost next to each other. But 2 of my top 10 made the list here - and really, really dissapointed that they weren't higher up. They were Pokemon and Card Fighters Clash, the only other game in my list to make it was Day Of The Tentacle. I'm somewhat surprised at Capcom vs SNK 2 making the list though

Mayhem

04-04-2006, 06:59 PM

Almost none, but it was in my top 25 :)

I checked... you never voted for 3 (2, 4 and Online present and correct however). Indeed, okay little spoiler here, NO ONE voted for 3 at all in the poll.

drwily008

04-04-2006, 08:20 PM

Almost none, but it was in my top 25 :)

I checked... you never voted for 3 (2, 4 and Online present and correct however). Indeed, okay little spoiler here, NO ONE voted for 3 at all in the poll.

GASP! Even with the generations innovation!!!

DAAMMMNNN YYOOOOUUUUSSS! DAMN YOUS ALL!

LOL LOL LOL

drwily008

04-04-2006, 08:22 PM

Hey Matt or Adam, did you ever say how many people voted all together? I just curious.

FantasiaWHT

04-04-2006, 09:19 PM

Almost none, but it was in my top 25 :)

I checked... you never voted for 3 (2, 4 and Online present and correct however). Indeed, okay little spoiler here, NO ONE voted for 3 at all in the poll.

What? Ugh musta been off my rocker at the time hehe. But I'm sure if you asked me to rattle off the top 25 today Id have at least 8 games totally different hehe

zerohero

04-04-2006, 10:10 PM

Good to see Mario RPG on the list..... Zelda Wind Waker? ..... ok.

Mayhem

04-05-2006, 05:55 AM

Hey Matt or Adam, did you ever say how many people voted all together? I just curious.

About 80 in total I believe.

blissfulnoise

04-05-2006, 11:20 AM

This probably isn't a spoiler, but Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker was my number one game so I probably brought the average up.

I still say it stands as the pinnacle of console gaming in terms of a total experience.

googlefest1

04-05-2006, 12:50 PM

i have yet to play that game - but alas im still stuck on the first one

sabre2922

04-05-2006, 12:51 PM

NOW this is getting interesting

I know I voted for MGS3 but IMO it should have been at least in the top 30.

also the orininal Phantasy Star was great on the Master System and all especially for its time but to be ranked higher than Phantasy Star 2 ? :hmm: naaa

I was also glad to see Capcom vs. SNK 2 on the list its one of my favorite fighters right now along with Tekken 5.

drwily008

04-05-2006, 02:01 PM

mezrabad

04-05-2006, 02:53 PM

This is great! Can't wait for day 4. Thanks for this list, I'm sure it took a lot of work!

drewbrim

04-05-2006, 09:39 PM

As I stated before I forgot to send in my list but my number 1 would've been Civ II. Glad to see it made the list without me tipping the scales.

Austin

04-06-2006, 11:41 AM

Wow. Only two of my picks so far. Surprised to see Civ 2 so low, though!

Crush Crawfish

04-09-2006, 03:39 PM

Good to see Super Mario RPG & Pokemon Red/Blue on there. I beleive that makes 3 of my picks in the top 100 now.

MrSmiley381

04-11-2006, 08:23 PM

Oh shit, a top 100 game list not made of bias and failure on the writer's part.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

googlefest1

04-12-2006, 09:57 AM

these "days" are pretty long

AB Positive

04-12-2006, 10:31 AM

these "days" are pretty long

Well, when you work two jobs, are in the process of building your own web server, sell games as a part time job to pay off your debt, and moderate online forums, sometimes you forget about other projects you had set up. Whoops :D

expect another update tonight as I have the day off and am looking to take a break from learning PHP.

-AB+

AB Positive

04-12-2006, 02:45 PM

or I'll just do it now :)

update!

blissfulnoise

04-12-2006, 03:40 PM

Splitting the votes between the numerous incarnations of Street Fighter II was pretty wacky. You could make a case for every iteration to take up spots on the list.

It doesn't matter though, 3rd Strike for teh full parry-out win.

The rest of the list looks about right give or take a bunch of spots.

Toe Jam and Earl is still genius though to this day. It plays a little slow comparatively, but that's one game that's held it's own over time.

And AB+, this list is pretty important so see if one of the other mods will help out. Or, if you'd perfer, PM me the list. I'll get screenshots up on my own webserver and post the next 10 every 48 hours. 8-)

SirDrexl

04-12-2006, 03:59 PM

I'm shocked to see Simon's Quest on there.

calthaer

04-12-2006, 06:48 PM

Deus Ex was my #1; I'm glad to see that it made it into the top 100 (though I wish it could be higher). Fallout was also somewhere down on my list.

Here's to hoping that some of the other PC greats that I voted for (X-Com: UFO Defense, Maniac Mansion, Sim City, Ultima VII, Wing Commander among others) also make the list.

classicb

04-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Toe Jam and Earl is still genius though to this day. It plays a little slow comparatively, but that's one game that's held it's own over time.

I had this game on my list at number 23 (out of 25). I agree with blissfulnoise as that it plays a little slow but has still held up over time which is why it made my list. It's unfortunate that they were never able to make a sequel that lived up to the first one.

classicb

04-12-2006, 08:10 PM

66) ToeJam and Earl (Genesis)

Personal Take from AB Positive:
I'll admit it... I DON'T get this game. Never have, never will, and I'm terrible at it to boot. Not trashing it, but I really can't wrap my head around this game to enjoy. Sorry TJ&E fans!

well then you've never gotten drunk and had a great 2 player game and sat in the hot tub with the girls on level 0 :)

I always loved the wacky sound effects in this game too.

zerohero

04-12-2006, 10:26 PM

Street fighter II, Jet Grind Radio, and Snatcher, what more can I say 8-)

drwily008

04-13-2006, 12:00 AM

Street fighter II, Jet Grind Radio, and Snatcher, what more can I say 8-)

I remember playing Jet Grind Radio for the first time when it first launched. I thought it was going to be like a Tony Hawk (which I didn't like back then)........man was I WRONG.

This game had me dreaming about it. Different patterns, the way to unlock the next level, how to defeat a boss, and the music...........oh man that music was heaven.

My friends had come down from cold-ass Ohio to visit me in sunny Florida and all we did was try to beat that damn game. One of the biggest things I remember about that time, was that I had just got a new stereo.

Man, we had that thing crankin' to the best soundtrack to date.

Canadian Psycho

04-13-2006, 09:48 AM

I'm shocked to see Simon's Quest on there.

Why? It's an amazing game, taken to another level thanks to the glorious BGM. Plus, it holds up to this very day alright. Oh yeah, it was also part of my top 10. :)

boatofcar

04-13-2006, 01:49 PM

This list should go into the next paper DP guide (if another one ever comes out).

SirDrexl

04-13-2006, 03:22 PM

Why? It's an amazing game, taken to another level thanks to the glorious BGM. Plus, it holds up to this very day alright. Oh yeah, it was also part of my top 10. :)

I just thought it was considered one of the weakest Castlevania games (although it's still pretty damn good). With just 25 slots, I thought most people would limit the number of games from a series, and SQ wouldn't make the cut over Symphony of the Night, Dracula's Curse, the original, Super CV4, and Dracula X.

blissfulnoise

04-13-2006, 03:54 PM

One other thing, you should edit your original post to put the previously listed games in numerical order. It's a little confusing for people just now checking out the thread.

ubersaurus

04-13-2006, 07:08 PM

WTF Vega weak in Champion Edition of SF2?

All the bosses but Balrog were monsters in that game.

Schenley

04-13-2006, 09:41 PM

Interesting list so far... I figured my tastes are a little different than most of you - and that is evident by none of my games in the first 40.

Some of these games listed so far are repulsive to me, some I agree with, and a few are ones that maybe should have been on my list.

Anyway, AB+ and others, keep up the good work! Thanks!

drwily008

04-13-2006, 09:46 PM

Some of these games listed so far are repulsive to me, .......

Really, I haven't seen one "horrible" game so far. Which ones do you hate.....err maybe not, it might start a flame war.

To each his own! ;)

Schenley

04-13-2006, 11:00 PM

Really, I haven't seen one "horrible" game so far. Which ones do you hate.....err maybe not, it might start a flame war.I figured that might ruffle some feathers!

Let's put it this way....

When I hear RPG, this is what I think of first:

http://www.simko.ru/Quake%20INF/Documents/weapon/rocketa.jpg

RPG = -_-

le geek

04-14-2006, 11:15 AM

WTF Vega weak in Champion Edition of SF2?

All the bosses but Balrog were monsters in that game.

Yeah, maybe I didn't write that up quite right. I don't know which characters are ranked what in SF2, it's been a while and I'm going on memory.

Anyway Vega was pretty hard to use for a beginner, so I routinely lost in the arcade. If I had picked Ken or Ryu to learn I would have stood a better chance...that's what I was going for...

Cheers,
Ben

ubersaurus

04-14-2006, 12:06 PM

Well, Ken was one of the best in CE because he had a simple as hell redizzy combo that he could land pretty easily. Also, if he timed it right, he could hurricane kick over someone as they stood up, confuse them on which way to block, and hit them about 6 times with it.

He was a definite beast among the non-bosses, that's for sure.

drewbrim

04-16-2006, 12:03 AM

Still loving this list although it pains me to see Street Fighter II and it's incarnations ranked so low (towards the bottom of the list). At the start of all this I had hoped no fighter would be ranked higher than the SF series but with all the games left to go, and the fighters that have yet to be mentioned, I doubt that is the case.

I'm also suprised that SF II and CE weren't just combined as one game for the purpose of this poll. I'd be curious to see where it ranked then.

dreamcaster

04-16-2006, 05:01 AM

Street Fighter II Turbo, Secret of Mana and Tempest are my favourites from the current crop.

Mayhem

04-16-2006, 08:29 AM

Still loving this list although it pains me to see Street Fighter II and it's incarnations ranked so low (towards the bottom of the list). At the start of all this I had hoped no fighter would be ranked higher than the SF series but with all the games left to go, and the fighters that have yet to be mentioned, I doubt that is the case.

Fighters didn't place very highly overall actually. Just to peak your interest, there's three fighting games left to go in the list, and that's it. What they are and where they placed... you'll have to wait ;)