I'm just curious is there a way to set up a poll here? How many Digitalpress members have had to return the unit? I have had mine for a little over a year and have had no problems. Mine isn't on for long periods usually. Well...unless I'm playing Mass Effect and then I might log 4-6 hours straight.
Aha! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
My brother's hasn't died yet...but he only has used it a total of a month or so
Also, for Microsoft to admit 16% is staggering. That's one out of every consoles failing, people.
p.s. my NES don't work so hot no mo', but that's mainly the previous owner's fault. The console I think will never die on me is the N64 - that and my family's original Win95 machine.
Last edited by Ed Oscuro; 03-10-2008 at 09:10 PM.
Still have both of my launch day 360's running perfectly.
They get several 4-6 hour sessions per week from th kids and friends.
A future episode of the AVGN:
XBOX 360: The Red Ring of Micro
Originally Posted by kupomogli
Check my video reviews on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/optitube
My Pixel Paradise Blog: http://blockmangamer.blogspot.com/
It was running dead rising in both of those 2 day sessions. Yes, Its true!
I've never had the RRoD problem and I have two 360s. The pro got tons of use up until I got my elite which is on anywhere from 4 to 9 hours every day.
When I used my pro It was horizontal and got proper ventilation. My elite is the same way, Horizontal and lots of ventilation.
Last edited by Slate; 03-10-2008 at 10:42 PM.
i believe it...My 360 took a shit on me 3 weeks ago, and i am still waiting for it to come back from Mr.Gates.
My 360 died a little over a week ago. It was an elite I bought in April of last year. I always stored it horizontally, in an elevated and open space. I didn't even use it all that much for gaming. I used it much more often for media streaming from my PC, though I'm not sure if this generates less, as much, or more heat than gaming.
Everyone that I know with a 360 has had it die. That's just shameful.
Negative, negative! We have a Wildcat destabilization of the ship's fusion core!
Oh yeah, 3000 respondents would be more than enough to provide an accurate sample, even 1500 would be enough with an error margin of +-3%. The key is that the respondents have to be be randomly chosen, (which isn't the case for this poll) then you could generalize from a 3000 sample to 300,000,000 of Xbox owners.
Very often people think that the more respondents you have, the more reliable is the poll in terms of generalizability. This is only true for up to 1000 respondents; for more respondents the law of diminishing returns strikes brutally.
Error margins are hardly reduced from 3000 respondents upwards. That's why you find hardly polls with more than 3000, most settle with 1500 respondents. The error margin from a sample of 3000 to 10,000 decreases only by 1%, after that it gets even worse. A sample of 10,000 and a sample of 100,000 have statistically speaking marginally reduced error margins, the reduction is insignificant.
The key are randomly chosen respondents which reduces sample bias dramatically, not the number of participants.
For this poll that means: if it had 3000, or ten thousand, or 100,000 respondents doesn't really matter. Even with 100,000 respondents the sample biases would be still there.
A sample of 1000 randomly chosen participants would be way more reliable than a sample of one million participants for this specific poll.
Last edited by lendelin; 03-11-2008 at 04:38 AM.
I've done similar polls at this site back in 2003 when there was all this insecurity and big discussions about disc reading errors an other hardware problems with the PS2.
Here is the link:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18926
if you set a poll up please do it across systems, that means another poll for the PS3 and the Wii with the exact same questions. Every Internet poll suffers from sample bias (lots of different aspects). If you do them across systems you can't still generalize the poll to all US 360 owners, however, you get clearly a trend compared to the other systems because the same bias applies roughly to the other systems as well.
Last edited by lendelin; 03-11-2008 at 03:52 AM.
That's exactly right, and there are many more biases of Internet polls which aren't just generalizable. The limitations are 'somehow' addressed by Cheapassgamer.
The poll would have been much more meaningful if they had made the same poll for the Wii and the PS3; that would give you a clear trend across systems and would in all likelihood show how bad the design problems of the 360 are compared to the other systems.
A comparison across systems wouldn't have eliminated the inherent biases of the sample, but it would have shown a clear cut trend because the same biases apply roughly to all systems.
Additionally, an estimation how "realistic" the total numbers are could have been made assuming that an alleged reliable system like the PS3 has a failure rate of 2% to 5%. If the failure rate of the PS3 in the poll would have been let's say 15%, we could have made a more educated guess about the total number of failure rates for the 360.
But these reports are alarming. Together with other data and reports from users the design flaws of the 360 are just terrible. Joe Santulli said that he expects the older systems to fail even by 90% based on his experience. Let's hope that isn't the case.
I assumed that the failure rate is around 40%. This poll together with other data indicates an even worse failure rate. I think if we go up the ladder from 40% onwards it doesn't really matter anymore.
The 360 was sold in the first year and a half with a terrible design flaw. There wasn't a system which had such terrible failure rates (since the mid 80s, that is).
MS did a lot of stuff right for the launch: it was well prepared, development kits were give early to developers, the list of launch titles had quality and was varied. But to get out such an unreliable system despite some warning signs in test runs is just unacceptable. Games don't matter to me if I the system to play them with breaks down, and if I spend $400 for the thing I expect not a failure rate of around 50%.
It is strange -- the 360 does so well with its good games despite the hardware horror reports which came in a couple of months after it launched. The PS3 suffered from sales numbers because of a lack of games despite its fantastic hardware design and reliability. It seems it is all in the good games and the price.
My 360 is now 22 months old -- that means I bought it in May 2006, I don't know when it was manufactured. So far no problems whatsoever. (knock on plastic) But if my system breaks down MS will not see a penny from me for the 360 for a very long time.
Last edited by lendelin; 03-11-2008 at 04:44 AM.
As I said in the other RROD thread, I have a launch unit, running as perfect and smooth as ever. I play heavily, anywhere from 1 to 18 hours a day. My friend also has a launch unit, he doesn't play as much but no problems there. Boyfriend has one, not a launch unit but one of the earlier versions, no problems there either. Me and my friend store the console horizontally, I have my Wii on top of it. Boyfriend has his vertically. In fact, I've never heard or anyone who had a RROD here in Finland. I bet there are people who have had it though.
The failure rate is alarmingly high though and I just hope that my 360 doesn't die on me. I could never afford another one.
Dracula: The constant villain of the series. His usual tactics include breaking a number of wine glasses and transforming into his true form.
I would never believe a poll like this because:
1. People who had failures are more likely to respond.
2. Some people just hate Microsoft and never miss an oppotunity to bash them whether they own a 360 or not.
I take care of my electronics (building and repairing pc's is a hobby of mine).
I own more than 25 physical consoles and have had the most problems ever with my 360.
I adopted at launch which I usually never do(except for the dreamcast). My launch console died within the first 3 days of owning it. Since then I have had to send it in 5 times; each time receiving a different refurb. It sits in an open space clutter free. The power supply even has its own teir. While I'm quite sure there are Xbox 360's that died due to negligence it is negligent in itself to claim that is the only reason because your console(s) ever had a problem. The 360 itself is a design flaw of speed and greed.
I do not even use my 360 all that much... I'm around 4 to 5k gamerpoints even. All I know is I will not be an early adopter of the next system Microsoft creates.
http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives...h_failures.php
p.s. Although a member of CAG I did not take place in the poll.
Just had to send mine back on monday, the guy at the ups store in savannah knew exactly what was in the box and said they see at least 1 or 2 a day.
Just curious but whats the hottest it ever gets there in Finland? How long does the heat last?
Here in socal, the three people I know with 360's have all had to send them back, twice even for one.
In the summer it's usually 30c (86f), indoors about 35c (95f). Finland is pretty hot in the summer, despite in the winter being -30c (22f). It has been getting warmer, and I have no ceiling fan.
The heat lasts for 3-4 months, usually May-August but may be around 20c (68f) in May/August. I'm in the northern part of Finland too, so it's surprising that we get about the same degrees that they have in Helsinki, which is a very hot city.
Dracula: The constant villain of the series. His usual tactics include breaking a number of wine glasses and transforming into his true form.
I guess I have been fortunate. I am still on my first 360. It was bought in late December 06, and gets an average of 8 hours a day playtime on the weekdays and at least 12 or more on the weekends. When/if it finally dies, it dies a hero...
I've been saying this since the 360 problems started popping up. But I know 360s die because I've had one die on me.
it's the PS2 all over again.
Awesome. I wish I was you.
Thanks for indulging my gaming habit when I was young, Dad. You were the best. I miss you. ~David Barnes 1926-2007~
I kinda do this face every time I turn on my XBOX360 Elite:
I was one of those who voted on that CAG poll being I trade there a boat load. And I was not surprised at the results. I mean heck did you even see the owner of CAG got the RROD? Jeez
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