Review: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Illustrates Nintendo's Greatest Problem [Slashdot]

[kupomogli]

I bet you Mario's Time Machine sold because it's on a console people owned, If the CDi sold a lot I'd bet that the Mario games on that would have sold.

Also. Mario Teach Typing was one of the games we could play during our free time when I was in first or second grade. So it didn't do too bad if you take that into account.

[fahlim003]

Did Mario games really bring new stuff to the table each time, though? SMB2j was pretty much a level hack of the original with only a few new additions/changes. Super Mario World pretty much repeated Mario 3 with some additions like multiple exits and niftier boss fights.

Yoshi(s) and the various abilities, the switches, Star Road, in-stage checkpoints, Dragon coins, etc. so yes barring the fact you can choose where to move on the over-world like a board game, that certain items got a second life in World (leaf/raccoon suit for the feather/magic cape), and that the main enemies were Bowser and the Koopalings.

Mario Sunshine was Mario 64 with a water gun.

Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

[TonyTheTiger]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

[Press_Start]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game.

[Tupin]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.

And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.

It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Super Mario Sunshine was awesome, the no-FLUDD levels and music are where it truly shined.

[Tupin]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game.

If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

[YoshiM]

Oh hell no. Mario Sunshine is far removed from Mario 64 which is why it's never sat as well with people as the successors have.

Yeah...don't get me started. Sunshine did not last long in my Gamecube. If I wanted a game about cleaning stuff, I've got house I can clean and a child I can spray with the garden hose. Lot more fun, even with the "non FLUDD levels".

[Press_Start]

If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

Well, there's a difference between "listening" and "total surrender" and I don't think Iwata's done fighting just yet. But they do have to answer to shareholders and NSMB2 threw a bone to keep the pressure off them while getting Nintendo out of the "red"....or as the industry calls it, "ARMAGED-NINTENUCLEARAGNOROKILLAUNICRONGIGADEATHSTARPALOOZA-DON '12"

[kupomogli]

Nintendo should let Sony use Mario for Playstation All Stars. I'm pretty pissed with all the third party being nothing more than advertisement, but Mario being on the game wouldn't bother me at all. It'd be funny if they got permission.

[marlowe221]

If Nintendo listened to shareholders, they would have put their games on Android and iOS like shareholders are apparently screaming at them to do.

I would be happy to play Mario games on Android and IOS devices - but NOT with current touch controls!

[RCM]

I feel like NSMB2 was explicitly made to pander shareholders. It screams rushed, half-baked idea as a Mario game whose sole collective purpose, both figuratively and literally, grab a LOT of coin, which would be perfect for a Warioland game. Heck, that was the whole point of the original Warioland. Why wasn't this a Warioland game? Oh right, the shareholders wanted another Mario game.

Can't say I disagree with any of this.

[Sothy]

Eat it you gluttonous fools!

[BetaWolf47]

Most of what you have there is fluff that adds to the personality of the game but hardly affects the core mechanics or functionality of it. If that's the case you may as well say that the poison mushroom makes SMB2j a completely different game from the original. There are obvious similarities between SMB3 and SMW to the point that it's almost impossible to find somebody who likes one but doesn't like the other.
And Mario Sunshine is more related to Mario 64 than a lot of people care to admit, perhaps because it would require them to accept that Mario 64 has some flaws that just happened to be amplified by Sunshine's worse level design.
It's clear the Mario games did not set out to reinvent the wheel each and every time. In fact, that's one of the virtues of the series. Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

You may have a point there, but I would still argue that World differentiates itself enough to be its own game, while the New Super Mario Bros. games do not. It wasn't mentioned before, but it's the first Mario game that lets you replay levels. Unlocking stuff and then coming back to play a level with the extra stuff, such as colored bricks and different types of Yoshis, does add an extra layer of depth. It's even required to find alternate paths and beat the game 100%.

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, but most of that finds its roots in Mario 3. World didn't really invent the alternate exits. Mario 3 did it with the few whistles. World just dialed it up to 11 with the revisiting of levels a functional necessity as a result. World didn't invent the idea of Star Road. It just added real stages and more consistent access points to what is essentially the Mario 3 warp zone. The game has it's flair, sure, but just about everything it does is built on ideas already laid out in the previous game. So I think it's silly to criticize the NSMB games for not evolving when one of the best games in the series didn't do much of it either. At that point it's cherry picking as far as what actually counts as growth and change.

[BetaWolf47]

Well, with that kind of criteria, there's nothing they can do to make an original Mario game in your eyes, besides taking the Star Fox Adventures route and putting Mario into a completely unrelated game.

[kedawa]

Kid Chameleon is my SMB 5.

[treismac]

Having 4 people playing a Mario game at the same exact time = 4 times as fun.

I've had multiple people playing Mario with me on New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but they were all lousy Mario players so it wasn't the experience that it could have been, I suppose, had there been some real Mario players backing me up. Honestly, I resent the simultaneous multiplayer since it put limits on the game's design, limiting the explorability of the levels as well as depriving the powerups of a true flying option beyond the propeller. But then I'm an old and bitter man who likes to play his Mario alone in the hollow glow of a rabbit-eared television set as the subway train shuttles by every hour as towers of empty pizza boxes sway in its wake.

[Graham Mitchell]

I've had multiple people playing Mario with me on New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but they were all lousy Mario players so it wasn't the experience that it could have been, I suppose, had there been some real Mario players backing me up. Honestly, I resent the simultaneous multiplayer since it put limits on the game's design, limiting the explorability of the levels as well as depriving the powerups of a true flying option beyond the propeller. But then I'm an old and bitter man who likes to play his Mario alone in the hollow glow of a rabbit-eared television set as the subway train shuttles by every hour as towers of empty pizza boxes sway in its wake.

Unfortunately, this appears to be nintendos new design philosophy. The wii u is basically designed as a multiplayer party machine. The best of the Nintendoland games featured at e3 were only fun when you have 5 people with you.

[Tanooki]

Perhaps another problem with Mario, well fake problem, is the mentality of the modern gamer? Mario still sticks to the roots of the 1980s he was born in and the 90s refinements. This era has been about 3D, flash and fuss, particular genres kicking other legit forms of gaming out of being 'cool' or fresh and into the background of handhelds and download services. Mario changes perhaps 10% of the formula at best a generation. You'll get the mega mario, the micro mario, the funny suits, yoshis, pick up n carry + toss, koopa kids, water guns, whatever but at the roots, it's still old 80s/90s mario. People these days, the younger ones at least who started in the say around the very late 90s early 00s stuff like Mario would be more an acquired taste as it's not your fps, sports, brawling, racing, wrpg type trendy bs. It's easy when Mario isn't in your genres of choice to criticize and nitpick the ever loving shit out of the games saying they don't change, they don't advance, they play the same, and so on. I'd throw back in their faces, and Call of Duty and Madden and Street Fighter 4 year releases do?

New SMB 2 on the 3DS isn't revolutionary, it's nothing drastically different, but it did when you look at it's only sequel add and change things the original title didn't. The old game had the micro and mega mushrooms, starman and fire, and that shell suit, that's it, otherwise it was almost an 80s throwback and annoyingly was super short where you had to sneak into 2 of the worlds which was an insult. This new one has those hidden lands, but it also has well more worlds to mess with and none of the primary stages are blocked. They added back a few classics and then the whole new coin mechanic to the mix between the block head thing that spews them to the fire coins conversion to the gold suit stuff. It has the feel of the old one, corrects of lot of the more stupid issues and adds a few elements to the game, much like the lesser changes between what most call the two of the best 3 and 4(World.)

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, with that kind of criteria, there's nothing they can do to make an original Mario game in your eyes, besides taking the Star Fox Adventures route and putting Mario into a completely unrelated game.

Or how about it's not innovation but execution that makes or breaks a Mario game? I don't play Mario games for originality. I don't play Mega Man for it either. I expect different levels and a new gimmick or two that factors in to completing those levels. That has been the Mario staple.