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Thread: Xbox rumors proven correct...and much more is revealed

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Default Xbox rumors proven correct...and much more is revealed

    Ahh, those nostalgic days of...uh...early April.

    I see there's about five billion Xbox threads here, but none of them seemed to have info right up front, so here it is:

    Always-online is really true, so finally we can talk about the "rumor" we always knew to be true as if it's true. You need to be connected once every 24 hours, or...well, they don't say, but I assume you'll be locked out of using the system at all until you manage to get it connected again. Source: Kotaku

    You won't be able to pop your games into other consoles to play them wherever you go.
    You will have to validate your game code online in order to play.
    Anybody can play a game from a disc you give them. However, either you pay to transfer the game, or they will pay full retail to play the game. Again, you have to go online to do this.
    All games will be installed to the hard drive, but the hard drive is 500GB.
    Kinect's mandatory, and microphone is always listening for verbal commands, even when the camera is "off" (not sure if this means if the console is off, to turn the console on, but that seems likely).
    ""Xbox LIVE — which still looks pretty much like the version of Xbox LIVE you’re using today — now remembers what you were last doing, what game you were playing, what song you were listening to and so forth, surfacing that information automatically."
    (Confirmations of all the previous assertions from this NeoGAF post, aside from maybe the 500GB thing which is deeper in the thread, if it's there, and the Kinect microphone thing which I just discovered in this Kotaku article. EDIT: The last bit is from a Times Tech article that I keep losing the URL for.)

    Some gamers thought that EA dropping online passes had to do with whatever it was the EA rep mumbled out the side of his mouth, but with EA dropping support for the Wii U and apparently not showing up for Sony events, it looks like they've just found a willing partner to build online pass blocks into the console itself, applying to the whole game. In other words, they're happy to let Microsoft infrastructure take care of this.

    _______

    It's funny, but recently I started to realize that this was probably coming. Computer users have been hearing rumors for over a decade about new DRM-like technologies being used (back in the Pentium 4 days, even), and there have also been rumblings within the last decade about systems restricting used game sales (I seem to recall the rumor being bandied about that the PS3 would do it). Each time it didn't happen gamers breathed easily for the few moments until the next rumor surfaced. Despite the (very reasonable) arguments that no company would ever make such an obviously anti-consumer move, I realized that it was quite likely an attractive proposition for companies that have looked at the infrastructure for complete server-side management of your gaming library (i.e. what Steam has already been doing for years) and that it would be a matter of how much time would pass before it happens.

    In some sense Microsoft isn't breaking new ground here. On the other hand, buying games digitally off the Steam storefront has never promised to give you games that you could freely trade and sell, but so long as you have your account available and the software installed at any computer you have access to, you can access your stuff. (And selling games on Steam has been a reality for a long while now.) Steam serves as a sort of "virtual console," giving flexibility about where you play. With cheap PCs capable of playing games that will rival or better the Xbox experience in many arenas, limiting that flexibility is surely a blow to each gamer's freedom to play where and when they choose. Another thing that distinguishes Steam from the Xbox One proposal is that many Steam titles are very, very cheap, and often bundled along with other games. Many of these are older games, but you can expect to pay full retail for Xbox One games for a long period after a game might have received a discount on Steam. Of course, there's nothing that says that Xbox One games couldn't be subject to discounts or specials like Steam. We'll have to see how that works out.

    My honest question is, how can anybody support this garbage? XBLA's consignment of games to a dead platform once a new system is released was clear enough, but instead of making any effort to fix this, they've made the XBLA problem apply to the entire platform. The only thing I could see happening for longevity is that, with the move to X86, there might be a chance that backwards compatibility could happen on an Xbox One successor. However, the X86 ISA won't necessarily be with us forever.

    Sony fans are rejoicing at the glut of anti-consumer provisions, but at the very least the PS4 will have (I think they do already with the PS3) an XBLA-like system (i.e. tying games to each generation), and it's not yet entirely clear if they could have any ideas in store like Microsoft. Although the "always online" rumors were with us for a long while, some of the extra provisions seem to have been kept pretty closely under wraps for now.

    Cripes, somebody's gonna have to make a Console Freedom Index now.
    Last edited by Ed Oscuro; 05-22-2013 at 01:12 AM.

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    I'll be the first to admit that I didn't buy the rumors at all. In fact, at 10:00 a.m. PST this morning, I was excited about the possibility of something completely different than what the rumor mill had been pumping out for months. Unfortunately, I have to say that at 11:00 a.m. this morning, I came to the unfortunate conclusion that maybe my days as a gamer and collector are reaching an end. It wasn't just the always-on and no used game thing that was particularly troubling, it was the focus on so many things other than gaming that made me think Microsoft is stuck in some alternate reality version of 1999 when convergence in set top boxes seemed to be the next big thing. It's as if because Microsoft's tablets and phones haven't sold, they somehow assume that people don't watch TV and movies on mobile devices at all. It's as if they forgot that Apple can easily do everything they showed Xbox One doing this morning with some simple tweaks to Apple TV and the iPad. More importantly, it's as if they forgot that the reason all of us bought an Xbox and Xbox 360 in the first place was to play great games.

    In any event, I will concede that the rumor mongers were correct about just about everything and my only hope is that Nintendo comes out of E3 with some great games and that Sony somehow bucks the trend and doesn't take Microsoft's lead in going down this path. Sadly, I suspect Sony will pursue at least some of the troubling practices that Microsoft is now bent on pursuing, including tying games to individual user accounts, charging for PSN and requiring at least occasional Internet connectivity. I hope I'm wrong about Sony, but I don't see how they can convince big publishers to support their console without such things in place in this new consumer unfriendly environment.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Sony somehow bucks the trend and doesn't take Microsoft's lead in going down this path.
    Am I still a rumor-monger if I say we can cite Sony on this one? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...online-for-ps4

    I didn't want to get too much into the "I told you so" spirit of things, but I did want to point out that sometimes a little sleuthing is often reliable - reliable enough to give a clue, anyway. Microsoft really did worse than my expectations, but as I said above, I also have had the feeling for a while that we really were due for something like this. It's been possible for a long while, many factors seemed right, and the idea's been tossed about in public in many ways.

    I'm highly amused by how strongly staid "traditional media" have tried to miss the point:

    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/ <- WE HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE, WE MUST PROTECT THE EXCLUSIVE so you'll be finding nothing relevant here, I just wanna talk about my feeeelings
    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/...nment-console/ <- "Can the new Xbox One save gaming?" There are three uses of the word "online" in that article.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/te...tion.html?_r=0 The only appearance of the word "online" is in "online video."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    Am I still a rumor-monger if I say we can cite Sony on this one? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...online-for-ps4

    I didn't want to get too much into the "I told you so" spirit of things, but I did want to point out that sometimes a little sleuthing is often reliable - reliable enough to give a clue, anyway. Microsoft really did worse than my expectations, but as I said above, I also have had the feeling for a while that we really were due for something like this. It's been possible for a long while, many factors seemed right, and the idea's been tossed about in public in many ways.

    I'm highly amused by how strongly staid "traditional media" have tried to miss the point:

    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/ <- WE HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE, WE MUST PROTECT THE EXCLUSIVE so you'll be finding nothing relevant here, I just wanna talk about my feeeelings
    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/...nment-console/ <- "Can the new Xbox One save gaming?" There are three uses of the word "online" in that article.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/te...tion.html?_r=0 The only appearance of the word "online" is in "online video."
    I still am not convinced that Sony is as pro-consumer as that citation and other similar incomplete responses have been interpreted. I mean even Microsoft was able to claim today that the Xbox One isn't "always online" and that it will allow the use and resale of used games. While those things are technically true, they are also the kind of half-truths that are really just lies of omission.

    Sony has still never said that an Internet connection is never required and that used games will work the same way they do today. If Sony confirms both of those things, I am confident that not only will the gaming public forego the Xbox One, but retailers like Gamestop and other more traditional brick and mortar operations will make it impossible for Microsoft to get any prime shelf space or marketing assistance. Heck, from the hardware side, the PS4 is the same basic architecture with faster memory and possibly a better GPU so I can't imagine any reason that most gamers would bother with the Xbox One, exclusives or not.

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    Apple (Level 5) RPG_Fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I came to the unfortunate conclusion that maybe my days as a gamer and collector are reaching an end.
    I think the days as a collector ended with the PS2. When MS & Sony shut down the servers to the 360 & PS3 all the games will be useless since most all those games have online gameplay. What do you guys think, will the 360 & PS3 be collectible in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic View Post
    What do you guys think, will the 360 & PS3 be collectible in the future?
    Absolutely they will be. Just because you can't play online does not mean you can't enjoy the single player mode of games that have online play and then there's the role playing games that have no online play to begin with.

    I personally haven't had an Xbox Live Gold membership in about two years yet I continue to buy games and enjoy playing them and while PS3's online is free I rarely play games online. There are simply to many whiney little kids online that for me at least make online play worse than single play.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    My response to Bojay1997 over here applies here as well, I think, so in the interest of not fragmenting the thread, keep in mind...that's all speculation, i.e. not even a rumor.

    @ RPG_Fanatic: Surely any physical game media will be collectible to the right people.

    I've seen really old taxi hack medallions on eBay. These are little badges cab drivers had to obtain from the police department (which, at least in the ones I saw, also write "property of X department of police") in order to drive a cab. Even though they do absolutely nothing today, they're nostalgic and historical for some people.

    Now, in terms of games you can play - you can go very far back in time to the days of the early internet to find games whose servers aren't online anymore; Compuserve and I think even Atari systems had content that required a distant server. Of course, nobody holds this against those consoles, because there's plenty of stuff you can keep running yourself. There's Final Fantasy XII on PS2, which will eventually lose its servers - and unless somebody starts an emulation server (somebody probably will), I think that will render that game unplayable. Phantasy Star Online, which is even older, hasn't had its original servers running for a while - though the game is still quite playable offline, or on custom servers.

    The difference between those games, and the Xbox One design, is that the games themselves will happily play if some criteria are met, and it's considered legal to take those steps (if it's an emulation server). On the other side, you will probably fall afoul of the DMCA if you try to convince an Xbox One title to run on a system you don't expressly have a license to run it on, or even to circumvent the measures that would disallow you fixing a system on which you had a license, but for whatever reason lost it and can't get help from Microsoft to get running again.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) sloan's Avatar
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    Does not the once every 24 hour authentication requirement necessitate that Microsoft have a dedicated server available at all times? What happens 10 years from now when they decide to pull the plug on that server like they did with online support for Xbox some years ago? That means all the money invested in games for this system was for naught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    What happens 10 years from now when they decide to pull the plug on that server like they did with online support for Xbox some years ago? That means all the money invested in games for this system was for naught.
    That's what I was thinking, all the Xbox live arcade games I've bought I won't be able to play them when they shut down those severs. I remember when MS said if your 360 isn't connected to the internet (to verify it's you who bought the game) you can only play the demo version of the Xbox live arcade game.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    What happens 10 years from now when they decide to pull the plug on that server like they did with online support for Xbox some years ago? That means all the money invested in games for this system was for naught.
    That's already the case for XBLAH - and similar systems with content that won't be compatible with the new X86-based systems. It's true of the systems I mentioned earlier.

    The only difference is now the most restrictive form of this is now in play, and it covers the whole console, rather than mostly less-expensive indie games.

    Progress!

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    I hope to god theres a firmware update done when they stop supporting it that require the once a day online connection, but then people will just wait too long for microsoft to make any money on it. Theyve shot themselves in the foot big time. And its NOT BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE! At least the Wii U has a firmware update.

    Kotaku must be on Microsoft's shit list now. http://kotaku.com/?
    Last edited by JakeM; 05-21-2013 at 10:47 PM.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Added yet another thing from Kotaku - the Kinect microphone is always on, and always listening.

    Good on them for pressing on with the gamer's viewpoint, rather than the completely disconnected "big business reporting" angle some of the other papers have covered with as much interest as if this was happening on the far side of the moon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic View Post
    What do you guys think, will the 360 & PS3 be collectible in the future?
    Game of the Year Editions will be the most sought after one to date with every extra/add-on/DLC on disc, the most up to date firmware, plus none of the bugs/glitches/errors ensuring a smooth unabated experience sold in relatively far fewer numbers compared to their first editions. In other words, a 100% complete game.
    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    You're just a hypocrite. I'm bashing Nintendo because I'm anti Nintendo, but my reasoning behind bashing them is always accurate. You should learn to do some research.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I personally think it's greed to expect that you can pay for a game once and then do whatever you want with it.
    Check my video reviews on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/optitube
    My Pixel Paradise Blog: http://blockmangamer.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    Does not the once every 24 hour authentication requirement necessitate that Microsoft have a dedicated server available at all times? What happens 10 years from now when they decide to pull the plug on that server like they did with online support for Xbox some years ago? That means all the money invested in games for this system was for naught.
    Frustratingly, Microsoft will probably never be punished for these decisions. Fanboys will still run out and buy the system and won't give two shits when 10 years later they can't play their games anymore and they'll just go on to the next big thing.

    At this point, I want this industry to crash like it did back near the late 70s. A complete reset would be wonderful, and that'll make all the current gen games super cheap. There's more than enough to keep everyone going for years to come until something else comes along.

    F*** the next generation and f*** Microsoft. Looks like Sony will be the way to go, if any.

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    Well,

    We have yet to see how this will affect the sale of used games, but it seems all but certain that the game rental market will be all but entirely locked out of this generation.
    "And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"


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    Its truly messed up imo about how this is going.

    Although its not as bad as it use to be. But there are still people who don't have cable internet out there so this is kinda odd for them. so thats gone

    They are way too focused on it being a multi media player... Which like i stated in the other thread renders this not a video game console but a pc. Just without the keyboard and mouse (although i guess you could kinda say the mouse is the kinect camera).

    The controller to me seems like they went backwards and stole styling touches from PS3 (although sony stole a idea from xbox in this last round so i guess its only fair).

    Another thing I will take note.. Is once again they are pushing this Kinect thing like crazy. What is the minimum distance from you and the camera to use this thing? 6 feet right?

    NOT EVERYONE MEETS THOSE REQUIREMENTS

    People who are in apartments (like i am currently living in right now) have this problem. For instance my tv is currently 4 feet away from me when i am on my couch and have no room to move it around.

    Not everyone lives in a normal roomed house with all the space in the world like they show in their precious videos.


    To me xbox just lost my entire vote this round... If.... and i say this strongly.... IF i buy a console for this round.... Its probably gonna be a Wii U because well nintendo games are impossible to get on the pc (atleast from a legal standpoint). 95% of whatever sony and microsoft puts out finds its way on PC down the road so won't be missing much

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    Key (Level 9) wiggyx's Avatar
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    I'm impressed that they sorted out a way to sell (er, license) both new AND used games. They managed to work around a lot of law regarding the sale of used media in order to make that happen. Crafty fuckers.


    That said, fuck 'em. I'm grabbin' an Ouya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Collector_Gaming View Post
    Its truly messed up imo about how this is going.

    Although its not as bad as it use to be. But there are still people who don't have cable internet out there so this is kinda odd for them. so thats gone

    They are way too focused on it being a multi media player... Which like i stated in the other thread renders this not a video game console but a pc. Just without the keyboard and mouse (although i guess you could kinda say the mouse is the kinect camera).

    The controller to me seems like they went backwards and stole styling touches from PS3 (although sony stole a idea from xbox in this last round so i guess its only fair).

    Another thing I will take note.. Is once again they are pushing this Kinect thing like crazy. What is the minimum distance from you and the camera to use this thing? 6 feet right?

    NOT EVERYONE MEETS THOSE REQUIREMENTS

    People who are in apartments (like i am currently living in right now) have this problem. For instance my tv is currently 4 feet away from me when i am on my couch and have no room to move it around.

    Not everyone lives in a normal roomed house with all the space in the world like they show in their precious videos.


    To me xbox just lost my entire vote this round... If.... and i say this strongly.... IF i buy a console for this round.... Its probably gonna be a Wii U because well nintendo games are impossible to get on the pc (atleast from a legal standpoint). 95% of whatever sony and microsoft puts out finds its way on PC down the road so won't be missing much
    New Kinect is high def with a much greater scope of body detection and a shorter required range. 3-4 feet this time around I believe.

    That helps for me. I couldn't invest in a Kinect as I could never meet the 6 foot minimum in my living space.
    "And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"


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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    Does not the once every 24 hour authentication requirement necessitate that Microsoft have a dedicated server available at all times? What happens 10 years from now when they decide to pull the plug on that server like they did with online support for Xbox some years ago? That means all the money invested in games for this system was for naught.
    I'm sure that can be disabled with an update IF Microsoft decides to do it.

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    Wow, I must admit that I was the first in line to dismiss the used game rumors about Microsoft. While used games sales are still possible they are only possible through authorized dealers. No more sales through Ebay, Craigslist, this site, etc. I for one NEVER pay more that $20-$25 for a game and many of my purchases hover around $10 - $15. I never buy games at authorized resellers because they are usually way too expensive (and will become more expensive when private commerce is blocked out). While I understand that Microsoft has every right to do this I can't see myself staying an Xbox fan with this policy.
    Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes not divine, but demonic.

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