Are there any versions of Genesis games that are better then the SNES verision?

[kupomogli]

So far we been hearing the music in comparisons, and the Megadrive coming out top 99% of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugE5l01KG5s Sewer Surfin' Hyperstone Heist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWCQSXz6e-o Sewer Surfin' Turtles in Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI7f5Wb2DAM Theme of Simon Belmont Bloodlines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dauRYb9il8 Theme of Simon Belmont SCV4

There. The SNES tracks are much better than the Genesis ones. That's the first TMNT music song I found on Youtube but I'm sure the rest sound better also. Now it's about 50/50. :P Don't get me wrong though. Both of the Genesis tracks also sound good. All of Castlevania Bloodlines music sounds good and the Theme of Simon Belmont sounds amazing on both systems, but on SCV4 the music is much better.

[tomaitheous]

Also keep in mind that TFIV isn't using samples for its drums, only FM.

I like TFIV compositions too, but the static-y-ness of the tracks annoy me. If it's supposed to be distortion (not just guitar), it doesn't come off very well.

The SNES can sample any synth sound of course, but it won't sound as good as the original source. Apart from the above posted Adventure Island, there are few SNES games with bass as good as most MD games. The filters on the SNES chip (which is removed or improved by most emulators) also removes some clarity from the sound.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with bass on the SNES. It was a matter of choice for the SNES composers. Often times, the sound FX (explosions) carried more bass than music tracks did. Most Japanese composers didn't favor bass, and the majority of games from the era are from Japanese composers. Yuzo Koshiro seemed to be the except to the rule, at times.

As for orchestrated music on MD, these are the most impressive soundtracks I could think of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9oip...related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOagv...related&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brUFB...related&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6pY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMsrHCFXj0
Fan made, 6:50

Besides Sortie (which is a great composition, just not impressive), non of those tracks are impressive - let alone good. And I think geckoyamori's covers of the Super Metroid tracks don't do it justice.

Also, Sorties is "brass" and the others.. well.. don't even sound orchestral.

Maybe I'm weird, but I've never been a fan of redbook/digitized audio in video games. It seems like cheating to me.

I've seen a couple of other people say something similar. Cheating. Music is music, where it comes from for a game is irrelevant. Whether it's streaming from a CDDA track, packed PCM, or compiled music for a chip. The end result is the same, disregarding quality and range. There are plenty of CDDA tracks for PC-Engine CD games that totally fit the game. Not out of place or anything. I think it's funny to think of it as cheating. I mean, this isn't some chiptune contest... is it?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Failing that, get a Yamaha DX21 and you'll be dangerously close.

I just got my Everdrive flash cart and I'm going to install the TFM module for it. So I'm already there as far as acquisition, all that remains is execution... I want something other than a VA7 Genny too, before I start laying any tracks. I'll go with getting sound off the Nomad's phone jack until I get a nice audio output Gen. And then reclaiming my mini-studio/board area (most difficult part I'm afraid).

Genesis Super Metroid... Wow. The pieces are even awesome(er) in FM.

[PresidentLeever]

I like TFIV compositions too, but the static-y-ness of the tracks annoy me. If it's supposed to be distortion (not just guitar), it doesn't come off very well.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with bass on the SNES. It was a matter of choice for the SNES composers. Often times, the sound FX (explosions) carried more bass than music tracks did. Most Japanese composers didn't favor bass, and the majority of games from the era are from Japanese composers. Yuzo Koshiro seemed to be the except to the rule, at times.

Besides Sortie (which is a great composition, just not impressive), non of those tracks are impressive - let alone good. And I think geckoyamori's covers of the Super Metroid tracks don't do it justice.

Also, Sorties is "brass" and the others.. well.. don't even sound orchestral.

Your comment on SNES bass is funny, the lack of bass in SNES games has nothing to do with bass on SNES? First, I don't see the point in talking about what the SNES or MD could potentially do but didn't in a thread like this, unless someone is coming to the conclusion that all MD/SNES music sucks just going by comparisons of ported games.
Second, there are enough comparisons here to hear the difference even when deep bass isn't favoured. I'm not saying deep bass equals a good bass instrument, that's something else entirely. But personally I think deeper bass helps almost any composition.

You're basically saying that you disagree with everything else, which is fine. But if you want to contribute at all to a worthwhile discussion then I suggest you come up with some proper examples and counter arguments.

[fahlim003]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugE5l01KG5s Sewer Surfin' Hyperstone Heist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWCQSXz6e-o Sewer Surfin' Turtles in Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI7f5Wb2DAM Theme of Simon Belmont Bloodlines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dauRYb9il8 Theme of Simon Belmont SCV4

There. The SNES tracks are much better than the Genesis ones. That's the first TMNT music song I found on Youtube but I'm sure the rest sound better also. Now it's about 50/50. :P Don't get me wrong though. Both of the Genesis tracks also sound good. All of Castlevania Bloodlines music sounds good and the Theme of Simon Belmont sounds amazing on both systems, but on SCV4 the music is much better.

I would agree on the SNES Sewer Surfing being unquestionably a bit better but Simon's Theme on SNES, while I quite like it, sounds flat in comparison to Genesis (even though I prefer SNES over Genesis in this case). I'm not going to deny examples I haven't heard or have extensive prior knowledge on but I'd say the SNES lacks the 'omph' and fullness that you often hear on Genesis. The quality could argued isn't always there on Genesis (not composition but effort) but when it is it's quite good. I would agree with j_factor in that Genesis often has a different sound, not necessarily lesser than SNES.

[PresidentLeever]

double post.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I think the SNES Sewer Surfin' sounds more like a Casio Keyboard Demo Song... It has that rigid herky-jerky midi sound and feel (not to mention those super-cheese orchestral hits...), either that puts you out totally or you won't notice it.

[Ze_ro]

So, several people mentioned Rock & Roll Racing... I just happened to be looking through The Guide the other day, and I noticed that even the Genesis version's entry claims the SNES version is superior.

I haven't played either version, so I have no idea... there's no mention of extra content there, so I'm guessing whoever wrote it just did a quick comparison and is basing their opinion on the graphics and sound.

--Zero

[pepharytheworm]

So far we been hearing the music in comparisons, and the Megadrive coming out top 99% of the time.

Wait we had a vote and I missed it. You might want to change that "we" to an "I". There's no way it would be 99% there isn't even 100 songs posted of ports and you picked one snes game

So far this arguement has turned into a less is more vs. more is more.
On the genesis people are more impressed by what people could do with the limitations where as the SNES being closer to sounding real but not quite there. But since someone wants to make the redbook audio issue it could do what either one did if it was choosen. Thats why Turbo vs Genesis ports, Turbo/PCE aways wins.

[Oldskool]

As far as music is concerned, has everyone forgotten about Sega CD? If you all are going to talk about redbook audio, can't forget that. It was not just the Turbo CD that had redbook audio.

So although it is not fair, ultimately the Turbo CD and Sega CD has vast superior sound capabilities over the SNES.

Back on topic. Which games were better on Genesis than Snes?

I always thought the sports games were WAY better on the Genesis.

[Oldskool]

The Genesis version sounds horrible and annoying. The SNES sounds great.

The Genesis version doesn't really exist. That was a fan made song. No way that a fan made song can sound anything as good as a Konami composed song.

[pepharytheworm]

[QUOTE=Oldskool;1723534]As far as music is concerned, has everyone forgotten about Sega CD? If you all are going to talk about redbook audio, can't forget that. It was not just the Turbo CD that had redbook audio.

So although it is not fair, ultimately the Turbo CD and Sega CD has vast superior sound capabilities over the SNES. [QUOTE]

I am one of the few that really loves Sega CD. If it was on the Genesis and the Sega CD, I always got the Sega CD version. I only brought up redbook audio because another member did.

[Rob2600]

As far as music is concerned, has everyone forgotten about Sega CD? If you all are going to talk about redbook audio, can't forget that. It was not just the Turbo CD that had redbook audio.

So although it is not fair, ultimately the Turbo CD and Sega CD has vast superior sound capabilities over the SNES.

Not exactly. Redbook audio might sound better (it's a real studio recording, after all), but it's not interactive. In Super Mario World, when the timer gets low, the music speeds up to stress the player out. In Yoshi's Island, when you touch a Fuzzy, the music gets warbled. On the N64, in Diddy Kong Racing and Banjo-Kazooie, different instruments fade in and out in real time depending on where the player goes. Redbook audio can't do that.

For something as interactive as a video game, I prefer interactive music, too. If I want to hear prerecorded music, I'll mute the game and play a CD of my choice.

I always thought the sports games were WAY better on the Genesis.

We've already been over this. EA was very lazy on the SNES. EA chose Genesis as its main platform and focused on that. Likewise, Konami, Square, and Enix chose the SNES as their main platform.

That's why I suggested we come up with a list of developers and which console they prefered: Genesis or SNES. That would be faster and make more sense than going game-by-game.

That was a fan made song. No way that a fan made song can sound anything as good as a Konami composed song.

So you agree the SNES version sounds better.

[PresidentLeever]

So you agree the SNES version sounds better.

Although fan efforts can be great, that was done in the TFM tracker meaning it doesn't really count as a proper G/MD version. TFM emulates only the 6 FM channels, it has no DAC or PSG support.

[Rob2600]

Although fan efforts can be great, that was done in the TFM tracker meaning it doesn't really count as a proper G/MD version. TFM emulates only the 6 FM channels, it has no DAC or PSG support.

So how does Konami's Castlevania: Bloodlines Genesis music compare to its Super Castlevania IV or Dracula X SNES music?

[Kiddo]

On the note of CD audio, I think it'd probably be more fair to compare the Sega CD (an add-on with some music enhancement) to the capabilities of the Satellaview (an add-on with some music enhancement) than to the base console.

Of course, the Sega CD would still win, because it's basically the same quality audio but without the Satellaview's various necessities/restrictions (especially considering the service the Satellaview supplied for the games with enhanced audio have long expired.), but at least we wouldn't be comparing a prerecording to a chiptune.

[tomaitheous]

Your comment on SNES bass is funny, the lack of bass in SNES games has nothing to do with bass on SNES? First, I don't see the point in talking about what the SNES or MD could potentially do but didn't in a thread like this, unless someone is coming to the conclusion that all MD/SNES music sucks just going by comparisons of ported games.

This is you original statement:

The SNES can sample any synth sound of course, but it won't sound as good as the original source. Apart from the above posted Adventure Island, there are few SNES games with bass as good as most MD games. The filters on the SNES chip (which is removed or improved by most emulators) also removes some clarity from the sound.

Bold is the premise, italic is the conclusion/result, underlined is another part confirming the result. All I did was correct your line of thinking/suggestion/theory. If that's not what you meant, then you should have worded it better.

Second, there are enough comparisons here to hear the difference even when deep bass isn't favoured. I'm not saying deep bass equals a good bass instrument, that's something else entirely. But personally I think deeper bass helps almost any composition.

I agree. It helps fill that bottom end. But that doesn't change the fact that it was (Japanese) musician dependent between the SNES and Genesis (and even other systems). It was there choice. And the fact that a game would have relatively mid-to-weak lower end in music, but heavy lower end for sound FX at the same time - affirms it (that, and I have experience with audio synthesis for such audio chips on a low level).

You're basically saying that you disagree with everything else, which is fine. But if you want to contribute at all to a worthwhile discussion then I suggest you come up with some proper examples and counter arguments.

I'm allowed to make an observation and comment, *without* posting a counter example? That's absurd. You posted examples of what you thought were impressive orchestral examples on the Genesis, I made the comment that they don't even sound "orchestral" and one was cleary just some brass instrumental parts. Simple as that.

Not exactly. Redbook audio might sound better (it's a real studio recording, after all), but it's not interactive. In Super Mario World, when the timer gets low, the music speeds up to stress the player out. In Yoshi's Island, when you touch a Fuzzy, the music gets warbled. On the N64, in Diddy Kong Racing and Banjo-Kazooie, different instruments fade in and out in real time depending on where the player goes. Redbook audio can't do that.

Then that just affirms that fact that CDDA isn't "cheating". It has some drawbacks, doesn't it? Although I agree that CDDA has no place in this discussion if we're talking about the merits of the chiptune compositions, system audio abilities, and the composers that did impressive stuff on them. If we're just about game music in general, then CDDA would be perfectly valid. But CDDA doesn't always guarantee a better sound track even if it's more capable (I've seen examples were chiptune renditions were better than the CDDA versions). So it's not an automatic win.

So how does Konami's Castlevania: Bloodlines Genesis music compare to its Super Castlevania IV or Dracula X SNES music?

Not even close. All but one song/composition for Bloodlines, are only average (technically sounding and composition wise). They don't suck, but they don't stand out, with the exception of the water stage level (the one where the water is rising and you have to make your way up the level). SCIV and DX have impressive sound tracks in comparison.

[PresidentLeever]

So how does Konami's Castlevania: Bloodlines Genesis music compare to its Super Castlevania IV or Dracula X SNES music?

Composition wise I think Bloodlines is solid. Soundwise it's kinda lazy. The FM drums are crap, like someone hitting a wooden table and some kitchen tools, and some leads are too sharp and thin sounding. I don't think they ever used PSG (4 channels) for the music either, which would have given the songs more warmth and fullness. They still got some cool sounds out of the genny though, nice organs and distorted bass.

In SCIV, the upbeat songs could definitely have more 'oomph' to them, some have really weak drums and leads. Bloodlines has an edge in some ways as it sounds stronger and darker. It probably wouldn't come close replicating those tracks with an emphasis on strings though.

Dracula X has too much reverb for it's own good, and lacks bass in some tracks. Overall though it's pretty good for SNES, and sounds better than SCIV and Bloodlines.

[Kiddo]

One thing to keep in mind is that the SNES Dracula X's music is based off the PC-Engine CD Dracula X's, and IMHO they both sound very similar to each other, with the preferences more or less being what kind of poppy sound samples you prefer (and, yeah, some of the PC Engine tracks are longer and such).

[allyourblood]

I agree. It helps fill that bottom end. But that doesn't change the fact that it was (Japanese) musician dependent between the SNES and Genesis (and even other systems). It was there choice. And the fact that a game would have relatively mid-to-weak lower end in music, but heavy lower end for sound FX at the same time - affirms it (that, and I have experience with audio synthesis for such audio chips on a low level).

I think this argument is pretty flimsy, as a lot of the Genesis games with nice, well-represented low end were created by Japanese musicians. What, they just didn't like to produce decent bass on the SNES?