Remember nintendo's arrogance during nintendo 64's release?

[tomaitheous]

That sounded a lot like fanboy rhetoric to me.

Ok then, fanboy of what? BITD, I didn't give two shits about the Saturn, was eagerly awaiting the N64 (Crusing USA in the arcades had me hyped), and the PS1 graphics were starting to really annoy me (the glitchiness/twitchiness of the textures and the blockiness too). So much so about the PSX graphics, that I can't go back and play PSX 3D games anymore nowadays. But I can easily do so on n64. I was pissed at Song for making me buy 3 PS1's (two broke). I rooted for the DC (the first system I could like and respect Sega for since the Genesis - and not the SegaCD or 32x). I rooted for the GC and bought every cross platform game on the GC instead of my PS2. So tell me... what am I fanboy of? Or maybe it's just you writing it off as fanboy rhetoric because you're bias to the point where you're defensive about anybody saying anything negative about your beloved system? See, I can make assumptions just like you

[buzz_n64]

Zelda most certainly was not a factor in 1996

Ever since the conception of the N64, Nintendo had planned a Zelda game. A proto for Zelda was shown in '96. They based a lot of the Super Mario 64 design on that early Zelda prototype. Sadly the early Zelda game was canceled.

Legend of Zelda 64 - RARE Early BETA Trailer UNRELEASED! UNSEEN N64 SCREENS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlMhzZXA0gk

[Polygon]

Ok then, fanboy of what? BITD, I didn't give two shits about the Saturn, was eagerly awaiting the N64 (Crusing USA in the arcades had me hyped), and the PS1 graphics were starting to really annoy me (the glitchiness/twitchiness of the textures and the blockiness too). So much so about the PSX graphics, that I can't go back and play PSX 3D games anymore nowadays. But I can easily do so on n64. I was pissed at Song for making me buy 3 PS1's (two broke). I rooted for the DC (the first system I could like and respect Sega for since the Genesis - and not the SegaCD or 32x). I rooted for the GC and bought every cross platform game on the GC instead of my PS2. So tell me... what am I fanboy of? Or maybe it's just you writing it off as fanboy rhetoric because you're bias to the point where you're defensive about anybody saying anything negative about your beloved system? See, I can make assumptions just like you

The Nintendo 64 is one of MANY systems that I love and own. There are systems that I don't care for, but I don't go after them with such hatred as you do. I have an open mind and I am completely unbiased. That's why I call it fanboy rhetoric. To me a fanboy doesn't necessarily have to be a zealot about a certain system or company. To me fanboys also have can also have an unreasonable hatred for a system which is what I see in you. It's almost like you're bitter about something.

I'm not one who cares about the Japanese market as I don't live there. However, are you going to tell me that in the American market the Nintendo 64 had any real competition besides the Playstation 1? No, it didn't. All the other systems you talked about failed miserably. While the N64 did spectacular.

[sheath]

This is an odd topic, seems a bit intentional with the divisiveness. But, I have anecdotes! When the Saturn came out I was, contrary to popular histories, really enjoying my Sega CD and 32X. A truck even pulled up to my high school and showed me early Saturn titles and I just wasn't impressed enough to take the plunge.

At the same time, one of my friends, yes just one, and all of my local game stores bought a PS1 at launch. I played Loaded, Twisted Metal, Toshinden, Warhawk, Wipeout, and I think that's it. Another friend was given a Saturn and some games by his guilt ridden Mom. So, I got to play Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing, Daytona, Astal, D, Wing Arms, and Cyber Speedway.

The two systems looked like they handled 3D in a similar format to me. Magazines at the time seemed to agree with a slight bent toward Sony's platform. I noticed right away that the PS1 games looked flashier but had many times the graphical glitches of their Saturn contemporaries. Neither comparison made me want either console until I saw Sega Rally and Virtua Fighter 2 running on Saturn, that sold me fast.

I was big into Arcades at the same time, and saw Killer Instinct and Cruisin' USA in the "Ultra 64" versions repeatedly. I pegged the backgrounds in Killer Instinct for FMV right off the bat (Sega CD owner, hello). I also figured that Cruisin' wasn't going to be more than an adaptation on the eventual console version.

When the N64 finally launched I was actually in college. Several friends had told me they were "waiting for the Nintendo 64" by that time. In retrospect, that often repeated phrase makes me laugh because kiddos these days don't even wait for their actual wife.

Anyway, when the console actually came out my dorm mate bought it (he only played Nintendo) and I had the opportunity to play the very substantial launch library. I played Mario 64 of course, Wave Race, Blast Corps and... eventually Mario Kart 64. The only one I reliably cared about was Mario 64, and even that I only cared about the first half of the game.

[tom]

What was USAs obsession to play the same games over and over and ....over.....and...

buzz_n64 on PSX issue>>>>No Mario, Sonic, Zelda...

And you forget one (most important) bad on N64: Awful fuzzy graphics.
N64 was the machine with worst graphics ever....

.

[theclaw]

N64 was unusual. Hands down entertainment-value-wise the greatest console ever, except solely during its active lifespan. Which is the killer qualifier here. No other before or since took such a cataclysmic nosedive of usefulness. Nintendo in desperation had fired off a powerful yet brief string of quality games once it was clear PS1 and PS2 would win.

[Aussie2B]

Yikes, so much anti-fanboy bias in here (well, maybe that's what this topic is crying out for) and so much stuff to correct:

If N64 games were priced at $80, that's some crazy price gouging. The usual price for a game was $59.99. Now and then I saw $69.99. Maybe the $80 price point is confusion with the SNES, which did have a fair number of games priced at that point (especially RPGs, like Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG).

Anyone who would buy the N64 for Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy is either just making assumptions or buying into the most extreme rumor mill nonsense. Those games never existed. No projects ever begun for those. I had Nintendo Power through the pre-launch of the N64 till 2000 or so, and those games NEVER appeared on the upcoming list or in any previews. If someone bought a N64 for Earthbound 64, okay, I can have some pity, but Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior? Sorry, no sympathy here.

The Japanese N64 was definitely more of a success than the US Saturn. Sure, the gap between PlayStation and N64 was just as large in Japan, if not more so due to the love of RPGs in Japan, but the big-name Nintendo titles still sold quite well. The N64 got around 100 Japan-exclusive games, and many of the US releases were still made in Japan (despite the popularity of Western stuff like Rare's games). The lifespan of the Super Famicom is little indication of the N64's success or lack thereof because it was barely supported past the N64 taking hold. Mostly just with their download service and Fire Emblem. With Fire Emblem, maybe that's some reflection on the N64 considering that N64 was going to have a Fire Emblem and it ultimately got canned. Maybe it was because of the failure of the 64DD, maybe because the N64 was a lost cause for RPG players, maybe they wanted to stick with a 2D system, maybe they wanted to develop for what was familiar. Who knows.

As for the topic question and my own opinion, I don't see Nintendo as any more arrogant in that period than any other company at any time. I think other companies have acted far more arrogant at times, and I think Nintendo themselves have been more arrogant than they were then. You guys act like you've never seen a system hyped up before.

[frogofdeath]

If N64 games were priced at $80, that's some crazy price gouging. The usual price for a game was $59.99. Now and then I saw $69.99. Maybe the $80 price point is confusion with the SNES, which did have a fair number of games priced at that point (especially RPGs, like Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG).

Nope. Many N64 games were $80 within the first few months of launch. I remember specifically paying $80 for Wayne Gretzky's 3D hockey shortly after Christmas '96 (good thing it's held up in value so well...). Things soon changed though and I can't recall ever paying that type of price again, but $80 was a reality for early N64 carts.

[Aussie2B]

I'm not saying those prices didn't exist somewhere, but, again, that is indeed price-gouging. Those absolutely were not the MSRPs. I bought a N64 at launch. I bought Super Mario 64, Pilotwings 64, Cruis'n USA at full price with my own money, and I paid 59.99 for all of them. Same goes for titles I bought a bit later on. Killer Instinct Gold was the only one I paid $69.99 for, but it was at a store that tended to have slightly higher prices so I wouldn't be surprised if it was available elsewhere at $59.99. I flat out never saw $79.99.

In the early N64 days, the games were sometimes recommended by the publishers at 69.99 but then most retailers would go with 59.99, like Super Mario 64:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/super-mario-64/adblurbs

[Kiddo]

One thing to remember about supposed "arrogance" is that the -majority- of 1st party game console developers with any degree of international success had it.

Also, a lot of things here that were brought up as examples of "arrogance" were actually the typical 90s' "edgy videogame advertising" trend - a trend which started all the way back with "GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T".

As for my own experiences with the N64, it was quite nostalgic - but not without a few bitter moments.
I liked playing most of the 1st party games and even actually remember hat third party games were good .(Yay, Goemon!
On the other hand, I remember when the 64DD was hyped up as their solution to the third parties having beefs with cartridges, only for it to never see US release OR any third party development.

That all being said, saying Nintendo in the 64 era was as arrogant as in the NES era must not have heard of those monopolizing illegal tactics they used to maintain their stronghold in that era, or their over-the-top "audiences do not need 16-bit gaming" just before the competition started to one-up their NES with newer technology.

[Icarus Moonsight]

The story of how I came to own an N64 is very unique, compared to how I usually decide to buy a system, but it's not very interesting. Oh well, doesn't matter much in this thread, so here it comes anyway.

I bought an N64 after I got some of the better games for $5 each from a Truck-Stop (Ogre Battle, Smash Bros, Zelda OoT, Mario 64, Mario Party 3, Castlevania LoD, Harvest Moon etc.). This was at the time when truckers were swapping out their N64 systems in their sleeper cabs for an "Xbax" (*Wink wink, nudge nudge*). Winter of 2002, I believe. Got a used 64 with the ram expansion for $30 shortly after.

Needless to say, I didn't have any reason to value owning one too much until then. When they were new, most of the people I knew that gamed had one. So I was able to learn from their collective misery. I do feel that I got more than my money's worth through the way I came into one. If I was an early adopter, I'd guess that my value assessment would take a severe plummet into rageguy territory. Perhaps not "payed $80 for a sports game that can't even fetch a buck today" type rage, but something rather close to that.

Some people imported 64's in my area between the Japan and US launch and they were paying $800 for the system plus $150 for Mario 64. That's over $1000 with tax... I imagine they're probably dead from shame by now and buried with their N64 and Virtual Boy stuff in a lead lined coffin. Keeps the awfulness from leaking out.

[Aussie2B]

I don't regret being an early adopter of the N64. I was never that bothered by the slow rate of releases because how many games can one afford to buy each month anyway? Quality games came out often enough to keep up with my rate of buying. I do recall a period in which I became a bit disenchanted with the N64 and Nintendo in general, but I attribute the Pokemon craze to that more than anything going on specifically with the N64. In later years, after the system was dead, I came to appreciate it even more because I could start really expanding my library and going after imports too, and I also now treasure my memories of experiencing games like Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, and Ocarina of Time when they were brand new. I think the N64 really enriched my gaming life, both now and in its time.

[wfnjstallion]

By the time the N64 came out I had fallen out of gaming so much of the talk here is out of my league. My gaming library consisted of the original NES and maybe 20 games for it. My parents refused to buy me an SNES and I fell behind. My earliest memory of the N64 was a kid in college showing up with Wrestlemania 2000 and we were blown away with how great the entrances looked. I am not ashamed to say that is what actually brought me back to gaming. From there I remember many late nights playing Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye, and Unreal Tournament (PS2) in the dorm's tv room. Like Icaraus by the time I bought my own N64 I paid maybe $40 bucks for it and then at that time I started playing the Zelda's, Mario 64 & expanding my library at basement prices.

[megasdkirby]

Only two things bothered me about the N64: the controller and the expansion pack (4MB adapter).

The controller was because it was hard for me to get used to, but once I did, it was "ok" at best.

Now, I have a huge gripe with the "memory expansion". Why is it that with certain games, like Hybrid Heaven, the frame rate DROPPED horribly? Yes, it was clear, but it was nasty to play (gave me severe headaches). Same shit happened with Legacy of Darkness.

In other games, like Episode 1 Racer, it played and looked great. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Besides that, I loved the N64. Great console overall.

[frogofdeath]

Granted, different strokes for different folks, but I never understood complaints about the N64 controller. It was awkward the first time I tried holding it, but after about 15 minutes into SM64 the controller melted into my hand. Plus it brought analog sticks to the masses and the Z button is still the best placed trigger button on ANY controller.

The expansion pack is peculiar. Don't have any experience with the slow down in games you mentioned, but if I recall correctly, Space Station: Silicon Valley won't even run with the expansion pack in. The idea is good in theory, but you would think it wouldn't hurt games, but rather help.

The N64 holds a special place in my gaming history, but mainly for nostalgia purposes. There are some games I will always hold onto, and a few I'm still interested in picking up, but honestly the games are painful on the eyes. Games from that generation do not look good (PlayStation included). It always makes me laugh what we thought were great graphics.

[GarrettCRW]

Aussie2B is correct on pricing for N64 games-$59.99 for most new games, $69.99 for certain games.

I turned down the N64 at launch, but really, it was only because there wasn't enough games to start with (besides, I was planning on buying the system when Zelda 64 came out, which I did). I had no issue with the PlayStation, which is what I got instead of the N64, and never regretted my strategy for the two. They both had their strong points-N64 was THE party system, with Goldeneye and Smash Bros., and the PS had the RPGs, and was the sports system of choice. Suffice to say, it was that era where I shed my company bias in hardware (and it totally died when I saw NFL2K and Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast).

[mobiusclimber]

Granted, different strokes for different folks, but I never understood complaints about the N64 controller. It was awkward the first time I tried holding it, but after about 15 minutes into SM64 the controller melted into my hand. Plus it brought analog sticks to the masses and the Z button is still the best placed trigger button on ANY controller.

Most people don't have three hands or use their penis to move a joystick. Sure, yes, the N64 "brought analog sticks to the masses" but it placed those analog sticks smack dab in the middle where it's near-impossible to comfortably reach.

[pseudonym]

My favorite games on the N64 were Mario Kart and Golden Eye. The console was dead to me otherwise; I never thought there were any great games for it at the time although I was mildly interested in OoT after I watched my brother finish it.

[kedawa]

I never had any problems playing Space Station Silicon Valley with the expansion pak.

[tomaitheous]

The Nintendo 64 is one of MANY systems that I love and own. There are systems that I don't care for, but I don't go after them with such hatred as you do.

So I'm going after the system with 'hatred', huh? I don't hate the system. It's the N64 fanboys and their warped revision of history and excuses, that I'm tired of reading from. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but I would have gladly taken the N64 over the PS1. I liked the bilinear filtering of the textures BITD. I liked the fact that the textures didn't twitch and warp. The graphics were very clean, back then and now. It was the library that failed for me. Nintendo's decision stupid decision to go with carts wouldn't have mattered much, if the gaming library was anything like the NES or SNES. Or like that other system, you know... the PS1?

I have an open mind and I am completely unbiased.

Haha, yeah. Of course.

That's why I call it fanboy rhetoric. To me a fanboy doesn't necessarily have to be a zealot about a certain system or company. To me fanboys also have can also have an unreasonable hatred for a system which is what I see in you. It's almost like you're bitter about something.

Uhm, that's not what 'fanboy' means. You need to figure out a different term and stop trying to apply some other unrelated popular term to fit whatever definition you feel like using. 'Fanboy' has a specific meaning for a reason. I think the term you're looking for is 'hater'.

However, are you going to tell me that in the American market the Nintendo 64 had any real competition besides the Playstation 1? No, it didn't. All the other systems you talked about failed miserably. While the N64 did spectacular.

I assume that's directed towards me, since it was in the reply to me? Yeah, you need to go back and read again. Where did imply there was any other competition other than the PS1 for the N64? Like I said, N64 = commercial success, gaming failure. The N64 was rather pathetic compared to Nintendo's own NES and SNES library, unless the only thing you EVER played on those systems were Nintendo's 1st party games (and continually the N64).