No, sir. Apple owns the handheld market.Originally Posted by MarioMania
No, sir. Apple owns the handheld market.
The handheld gaming market? While I agree that Apple and to a lesser extent Android/Google are making inroads with casual gamers, I have yet to find any legitimate survey or sales data to indicate that it's having a material impact on sales of video games on consoles and handhelds. In fact, as someone else pointed out, a lot of this bleed over is probably people who bought a Wii and a game or two around the purchase window and then never used it again. They are more dabblers who follow the hype than reliable consumers.
I know a lot of people who own iPhones and Droids and have downloaded a few games, but they either were never gamers to begin with and this is just something they threw a few bucks at to try out or bought these games in addition to their games on traditional consoles and handhelds and a few dollars didn't make any difference in what they could spend on other entertainment in any way. The iPad is certainly capable of compelling gaming uses, but it lacks traditional controls and frankly, it has yet to prove itself as a viable platform for more expensive and complex gaming experiences. Perhaps that will change and when it does, then I think Nintendo and Sony will both be in for some serious competition.
The "miscalculation" was they wanted another Wii (in sales numbers)...instead got a DS. Surprisingly, 3DS's still steadily following the same path despite the Fukushima disaster, weaken global economy, and the "expensive" $250 price tag (which DS didn't have to contend).
Everybody's overlooking one thing detail. In 2012, Nintendo will be even stronger, thanks to 3DS and WiiU. Vita's gonna have a tough bout against those two without Sony taking a price cut. On top of that, the PS3 $400 price (w/Move) looks like a HD Wii-wannabe with glowing lollipops next to the big N's new $300 console, forcing Sony again to take another cut.
Like I said, Vita's best shot was a US 2011 release date, establish a base, and grow it from there, cause, as I see it, the next year or so will be the rockiest for Sony. Not just hardware wise, but software-wise, too. Right now, Little Big Planet is their only tool to appeal to the "new" crowd while Nintendo has them outgunned like 5-to-1. (Nintendogs, Ocarina of Time, Mario 3D, Kid Icarus, etc.)
If Sony is really, REALLY serious standin' toe-to-toe with big Mario and takin' the gold, then they must establish a viable identity for themselves that differentiates and appeals to the "new" crowd, like Sega. Otherwise, it's PSP all over again.
My gut feeling tells me Nintendo's fully aware of the direction of smartphone games and betcha' Iwata/Miyamoto are already underway cookin' deep in their underground lab somewhere something REEEAAAAAAL innovative to tackle that beast later in the decade.
Actually, I find that move kinda ironic as Vita's not UMD compatible especially in the wake of surging PSP sales. I'm a little surprised Sony didn't begin outside Japan and try to make a fresh start in the American market here as DS outsold 5-to-2 in USA. Lots of room for improvement.
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They pushed it back because Kaz wanted a stronger launch lineup. I would prefer having actual games for my new toy, not at all like 3DS which had... Uh... Pilot Wings and Steel Diver. January is a strong shopping month because retailers are clearing their stock. If they get it out before March AND with strong 1st party titles, it's a better deal for them than just releasing it in November with nothing to show for itself.
Dragon's Crown is a day 1 buy for me!
Huh. LOTS of defending of Nintendo there.
Did I somehow come off as anti-Nintendo in my response?
Funny, I thought that I said that I thought that the 3DS would do fine in the long term despite any of this price drop nonsense.
Is it that I think that the growing smart-phone market (hundreds of millions of Android and iOS users worldwide) is encroaching on the traditional portable gaming marketplace or that the Vita won't suffer some type of catastrophic marketplace failure by launching a few months later in the US/EU that made my response somehow come off as deserving a bombastic defense of Nintendo?
Last edited by Frankie_Says_Relax; 08-05-2011 at 03:35 PM.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
The vernacular you're using is interestimg, because it assumes a number of things that aren't really true. You stated that you've yet to see data that shows that I-devices and Android are cutting into "legitimate" handheld gaming sales. That isn't the point. It doesn't matter to Apple or Google whether they're taking sales away from Nintendo or Sony, because they're making millions off of people who never would have bought a DS or PSP in the first place. You're entire premise is false.
Apple has sold more iPads and iPhones in the couple of years than Nintendo has sold of the DS. Combined, Android and Apple have more marketplace presence than Sony and Nintendo combined. Their games are cheaper, their storefronts, being digital, get in front of more people every day, and regardless of your feelings on it, Angry Birds has sold more copies across two platforms than Pokemon has the entire DS lifespan. That's significant data.
Now for the apocryphal segment of the post: I love handheld gaming, and so do most of my friends, and we game on our phones or ipod touches for the most part. It's not just gaming either: these devices do much more than game. YouTube, texting, tapatalk, restaurant and GPS applications, etc. It's not thqt the games on PSP and DS are "worse" than on phones. It's that to people who are not ultra hardcore gamers, those devices are too limited for their cost.
So: you and I will buy the next Nintendo and Sony handhelds because we are hardcore gamers. All our non-hardcore friends and relations will buy an iPhone and occasionally buy a game for a buck. So far, its worked for Apple.
Same thing for DS, solomon. Super Mario 64 DS, Metroid Prime Hunters, Feel the Magic?? and few other licensed titles n' what not were launch games back in '04 and we know how that story's going.
Seeing the current Vita lineup *sigh*, it doesn't scream "VITA!". It screams "PSP!" and it should offer more than that. Don't get me wrong! Dragon Crown and Project Gravity are reason enough for mebut when you lay down the gauntlet against an alpha-dog like Nintendo. Sony better bring the Death Star cause the big N is bringing Unicron...in a Tanooki Suit.
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Sony better bring the Death Star cause the big N is bringing Unicron...in a Tanooki Suit.
Nintendo gave Sony the Move, so they're just returning the favor by bowing out of the holiday sales (possibly?). Upright, if slightly numbskullish. Hopefully they can capitalize on the time they're taking, they can spare the time more than the money. I'm not too optimistic that this will help or hinder either much though.
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Was I? Maybe I didn't enough smiley faces.
No, you're comment didn't come off as "anti-"anything. This would be where I start explainin'...but I'm spent and said everything I wanted to say for now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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It's actually not my premise, it's how all businesses work. To grow a business, you can a) go after new customers in the hopes of increasing your customer base, but keeping in mind that they are typically harder to reach and more expensive to market to and that many will never buy your product no matter how great it is; b) you can go after the existing customers who already are interested in or have products along the same lines that you are trying to sell or c) some combination of both. Now, traditionally, video game companies have done mostly "b" for the past thirty years targeting kids, teens and young adults that will purchase a console and a healthy stream of new release games and back catalog stuff leading to a higher attach rate, new hardware sales every generation, etc...
Nintendo with the Wii tried to go after a less traditional consumer and for better or for worse, it moved hardware but not software. Nintendo was smart enough to actually make money on the hardware from day one, so their strategy worked out, at least up until very recently.
You're correct that there is this huge pool of non-gamers who will buy angry birds or some other buzzworthy game on their new iPad or other mobile device. Heck, my mom who has literally never played a video game in her life was asking about downloading it to her iPad last week. Unfortunately, my mom and the millions of other people who downloaded Angry Birds aren't going to spend more than a few dollars on game downloads every few years and frankly, may never buy another video game ever. In addition, selling ten million copies of a game at $2 or "free" is best case scenario $20 million (but realistically a lot less when you consider everyone that bought it for $1 or got it free) which doesn't include the share that goes to Apple or the other distributors and is far less than Nintendo makes off a single million selling game on either the 3DS or Wii. It's a different market and one which can be lucrative, but also one which is hard to pin down and guarantee that your investment will pay off. For every Angry Birds, there are literally thousands of other titles that make nothing and actually lose money for the developer and publisher. Of course, the distributor pretty much always makes money.
Apple has a great and profitable business model. They are not, however, trying to compete directly in the video gaming space with Nintendo and Sony, at least not yet. At some point will they? Absolutely. Could they actually dominate the market? Absolutely. Do they need to take on Sony or Nintendo to become even more profitable? Nope. Do Nintendo and Sony need to be worried about Apple? Sure. Are kids and teens and young adults going to abandon consoles and handhelds to play iPad and Android games? Nope and the surveys and sales data have consistently shown that video gaming keeps growing and mobile gaming is in addition to that growth, in some cases building upon it and in any case, not detrimental to it.
It was a different market in 2004. Nintendo had a full year with no competition to grow and with a much cheaper device on the market. The 3DS can't afford an uphill battle like the DS could seven years ago. Vita needs a strong launch to compete. Uncharted and LBP at launch are an absolute must and I think it's better to miss Christmas than launch early with a weak lineup.Same thing for DS, solomon. Super Mario 64 DS, Metroid Prime Hunters, Feel the Magic?? and few other licensed titles n' what not were launch games back in '04 and we know how that story's going.
Seeing the current Vita lineup *sigh*, it doesn't scream "VITA!". It screams "PSP!" and it should offer more than that. Don't get me wrong! Dragon Crown and Project Gravity are reason enough for me
The DS was released less than half a year before the PSP. The 3DS has over half a year on the Vita.
Amazing game. One of the best on the DS. Rub Rabbits, while not as good, is pretty good as well.Feel the Magic??
The reason the DS was such a success compared to the PSP is for two main reasons. The first is because the PSP is nothing more than a console like experience, where the DS had gamers and non gamers alike hooked because of the touch screen aspect being a new way to game. The second reason, and quite an obvious one, is how early it was hacked as well as how easy it was to downgrade and pirate PSP games. Because of the huge amount of piracy, most games sold far less than they should have. The PSP didn't have the backing of the millions of parents who purchased the DS for their children and didn't know a thing about piracy, but how most people are, if they did I'm sure the DS would be in just as bad shape.and few other licensed titles n' what not were launch games back in '04 and we know how that story's going.
With the 3DS, touch screen gaming isn't a new concept anymore. It's on the iphone, ipad, literally everything now days. The hook isn't there any longer. The 3D that Nintendo tried to throw really worked didn't. It worked so well that not only did Nintendo say they wouldn't attempt to try creative things with the 3D, but they even announced that "not all games need to be 3D and we're going to start releasing 3D less games. I mean seriously. Nintendo was praising how great the 3D aspect was going to be because they thought it would be just another gimmick that people would buy into, yet it backfired and they're trying to soften the blow.
Basically, because the 3D is practically a worthless aspect to the system, other than dual screens, the 3DS has nothing extra on the Vita. It doesn't have that edge on the Vita that the DS had on the PSP. Because the Vita isn't just a PS3 like console experience, it's got everything the 3DS has, a second analog, Six Axis, back touch panel, and is multi touch.
If you weren't going to get a PS Vita at $249 when the 3DS was also $249, then you're not going to now that there was the price drop for the 3DS. Regardless of the price difference now, the $249 Vita price tag was a shock that I think is still going to work in Sony's favor because people still see the value in the Vita after the 3DS price drop. If the 3DS had a price drop before the Vita price was released it might have worked better for Nintendo since there wouldn't have been that side by side comparison of value at the time. The 3DS will get many more casual gamer sales because of the cheap price, but people who are in the know about the two systems and aren't anti Sony or a hardcore Nintendo fanboy who only gets one handheld/console will also get the PS Vita I'm sure.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
I see Nintendo benefiting from the delay of the Vita. I see both 3DS and Vita sales to be diminished due to a changing portable market. Part of the problem is that that the market of 2011 is so different than 2006. The economy, competition, and what people game on has changed dramatically. Does the smartphone market need to have better games? Yes. Does it make me think twice about purchasing $30 to $40 portable games? Yes. Does it make me play less games on a dedicated portable? Yes.
I was one of the folks that hated the idea of digital downloads. I know have changed my mind for the mere fact that the games I have seen are significantly less expensive and at a price that is a "throwaway" price.
Tablet/Smartphone gaming will affect portable sales, probably more Sony than 3DS due its target fanbase. Bottom Line is that this holiday Nintendo is now not going to have any competition, and this just makes the Vita have more pressure to deliver. Both Sony and Nintendo now have to deal with a growing demand for tablets and smartphones that will probably affect the sales of dedicated portables. Time will see
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Like others have already said, I think this is because Sony looked at their holiday launch line up and realized that it would be pretty bad(not that the 3DS had a good launch line up either). As for Japan being the first to get the Vita, this is how all systems use to launch back in the day until 2005 when Microsoft decided to do a global launch for the 360. And ever since then everybody else has decided to do a global launch. While those are great in theory, it also means that consoles/portables that are really in demand will sell out very quickly in atleast one region.
I'm also of the mind that not many people were looking for a successor to the Psp. The first one did ok sales wise but it never wowed me as being a must-have system. While the Vita has much more going for it tech wise(and hopefully game wise) I'm still not sold. But still, launching in the springs gives Sony a better chance to have a much stronger launch line up of games. They still have to compete with the 3DS's lower price but the Vita should cost more because it can do much more then the 3DS can. The only way I see the Vita not catching on strong in the US/Europe is if they wait until holiday 2012 to launch. Theres just way too much stuff coming out then and the system would probably be greatly overshadowed.
ALL HAIL THE 1 2 P
I didn't think of this before, and while others have mentioned it, 12P's post also mentioning it was probably pushed back because of the launch line up, it finally hit me.
It's not the current launch line up, it's what's due to release in months towards the end of the year. Uncharted 3, Dark Souls, Batman Arkham City, and Skyrim are some big titles coming out right at the end of the year. The Vita's main fanbase is the core gamer rather than the casual, so releasing during the same time the biggest games of the year are released would cut into sales for both those games as well as the Vita.
The few extra months to pad the Vita launch line up also helps, but it's the western developed AAA titles being released at the end of the year they decided to go with Japan rather than other territories.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
The idea to launch in Japan first MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER
The only sense that it makes is that it's a pure "pride" thing. Or maybe they feel an obligation to launch in their home country. If you think about it, the PSP is doing very well in Japan. In fact, that is really the ONLY country that the PSP is still doing relatively well in. If you look at the weekly sales numbers for hardware in Japan, the PSP is always up towards the top of the charts, if not the No.1 spot. PSP software still sells relatively well in Japan. In the USA, (and Europe), it's the exact opposite. PSP hardware in the USA isn't selling very well at all, and PSP software sales are virtually non-existent.
So, they are going to release the Vita in a country in which the PSP is still doing very well. This just doesn't make any sense at all. If anybody doesn't need the Vita right away, it would be Japan. In fact, Japan should be the last major territory that they should launch in. Of course, we all know it's a "pride" thing, and that it's kinda like an obligation for them to launch in Japan first, but as a business decision it's really bass-ackwards. Also, the excuse for not having enough software for a USA (Europe) launch is a really weak excuse, considering the vast majority of software that seemed really far along was the Western based stuff. They didn't really show hardly any Japanese developed software at e3. Maybe they are saving it all for the Tokyo Game Show, but regardless, it seems like the Vita would have enough key games to have a very successful launch. I think this is a very bad idea for Sony, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays itself out.
Last edited by WCP; 08-06-2011 at 01:47 PM.
It's not backwards... It's called best foot forward. The Vitas success in Japan is much clearer and predictable than anywhere else. That's all, and fairly obvious.
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I think when your resources are somewhat limited with your software lineup and ability to supply the marketplace, it makes perfect sense launching it in your strongest territory where your most loyal base of customers are, if you have to select just one.
They're not going to launch it first in areas where the PSP is all but abandoned and anger the one place where Sony's existing handheld is still doing amazingly well with a large consumer base, by making them wait.
IMO I think Sony is going to do a heck of a lot better with the Vita than they did with the PSP. The fact that it has dual analog and ability for 3g is going to help it tremendously. The FPS games are more popular than ever, and I feel a ton of people are going to go ape shit about being able to play COD online on the go.
Well, the one big problem I can see for PSVita is the hackers and modders. They essentially helped bury the original PSP by opening the piracy floodgates. I can only hope Sony improved security measures for the new system. Unfortunately, we know the impatient types will import Japanese Vitas and start screwing around anyway, no doubt opening things up by the time the US version hits.
It DOES make you wonder if Sony and Nintendo would have better luck taking the Microsoft route (MS allows smaller indie devs to use tools to create games for 360 and make a profit from them), especially given the huge surge in modding and homebrewing portable devices in recent years.
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