U.S. Sonic with UPC sells for $981.33

[TonyTheTiger]

Different times, different marketing strategies, different records, different laws at the time of release. Now we can split hairs all day long about what list is accurate, but Sonic is still rare as hell and people still want it.

And the first guy to drop $50 on one with the sticker way back when started this shit, not some list on DP or wherever. That just helpsdrive the price up.

Like this thread.

Fair enough. But it's the UPC that's rare as hell, not Sonic. Which is why it seems more like very rare, perhaps very sought after, and certainly very valuable Sonic-related memorabilia. I never said anybody was "wrong" for wanting it. I just don't see any justification to consider it as anything but an officially endorsed import. Doesn't mean it can't still be a $1,000 import.

[play2win]

Eh. We've gone back and forth on that but I stand firm that there's genuinely no difference (academically, legally, etc.) between a company selling their foreign product locally or granting a third party the right to do the very same thing..

Just my non-legal advice opinion- under Federal Law, there is a distinction. To use my earlier example, a third party being granted rights to sell a good in the US Market that was not originally intended by the Manufacturer for the US Market would be a a grey market goods distributor. Distributors of a good provided by a Manufacturer intending to market this good in the US Market, on the other hand, would not be selling this good as a grey market good.

[TonyTheTiger]

Gray market more or less means unauthorized or unintended. Once there's an agreement involving the original publisher/manufacturer/etc. then it's no longer unintended though, right? Even if there's a third party involved, there's still clear intent on the part of the original manufacturer.

[play2win]

Gray market more or less means unauthorized or unintended. Once there's an agreement involving the original publisher/manufacturer/etc. then it's no longer unintended though, right? Even if there's a third party involved, there's still clear intent on the part of the original manufacturer.

Actualy goods sold without the authorizion of the manufacturer are black market goods. Notwithstanidng, permission to distribute a good in the US Market that was not originally intended for distribution in the US market does not necessarilly indicate original intent.

I may think that Caramilk chocolate bars will sell well in my local US market- I obtain permission form Cadbury in the UK to sell their Caramilk bars in the US market. Generally, with this permission, they are still a grey market good, as they were intended for distribution in the UK market by Cadbury. If Cadbury likes the idea and makes an altered version of the Caramilk bar intended for distribution in my market, then gives me those to distribute, the goods would then not likely be a grey market good.

[skaar]

Wow guys, this is still going?

[TonyTheTiger]

It's this or ponies. Take your pick.

[The Dord]

It's this or ponies. Take your pick.

this > ponies.

[Gameguy]

Plenty of European SMS games were officially distributed in Canada, why aren't those considered to be Canadian releases?

Look at this European listing;
http://guide.digitpress.com:8080/DP/...f?gameid=18868

Description: European copies were also distributed in Canada.

Why isn't there a separate Canadian listing for this game? Why only a European listing? Why did Sonic get a separate US listing instead of a mere mention in the European listing?

This game is listed as being a Canadian release;
http://guide.digitpress.com:8080/DP/...f?gameid=36254

Description: This is the only Canadian release that wasn't just the US or European version with an extra UPC sticker, and easily identified by the fact that it credits Irwin Electronics (the Canadian SMS distributor) on the front cover.

Why aren't the other games considered to be Canadian? The others had a different UPC sticker but that wasn't enough to consider them as Canadian, why did Sonic get the US treatment with just the sticker?

[MisterRowland]

I actually remember seeing a ton of these when I was a kid. There was a local Rose's store that sold the SMS and pretty much only had Sonic and a couple of other games. I remember all of the games being behind the counter and having to ask the cashier to hand them to me so I could read the back.

[98PaceCar]

Actualy goods sold without the authorizion of the manufacturer are black market goods. Notwithstanidng, permission to distribute a good in the US Market that was not originally intended for distribution in the US market does not necessarilly indicate original intent.

I may think that Caramilk chocolate bars will sell well in my local US market- I obtain permission form Cadbury in the UK to sell their Caramilk bars in the US market. Generally, with this permission, they are still a grey market good, as they were intended for distribution in the UK market by Cadbury. If Cadbury likes the idea and makes an altered version of the Caramilk bar intended for distribution in my market, then gives me those to distribute, the goods would then not likely be a grey market good.

So what/how much would the product need to change before it would be considered a US product? Is the assignment of a UPC for use in the US enough to justify calling it a US product?

[play2win]

So what/how much would the product need to change before it would be considered a US product? Is the assignment of a UPC for use in the US enough to justify calling it a US product?

Theoretically, the manufacturer would not need to change it at all, they would just need to originally intend to distribute it in the US. However, I would imagine that most manufacturers would make some minor change so that the products destined for the US are somehow distinguishable form their foreign counterparts. With Sonic, Strider, Spiderman, etc., this was apparently accomplished via the respective UPC stickers. Without some distinguishable feature, the manufacturer's intent may be impossible to evidence.

[Sunnyvale]

Fair enough. But it's the UPC that's rare as hell, not Sonic. Which is why it seems more like very rare, perhaps very sought after, and certainly very valuable Sonic-related memorabilia. I never said anybody was "wrong" for wanting it. I just don't see any justification to consider it as anything but an officially endorsed import. Doesn't mean it can't still be a $1,000 import.

Again, if you want to use blankets to define what does and doesn't make for a 'proper' release, then we have other things far more pressing than the three or four SMS games on that list.

If Sega woulda been kicking ass and taking names, it probably woulda been a whole new box, art, manual, cart, etc. But they were scrounging for a quick buck.

What do you value the box of Cheetahmen 2 at? Is this nothing but very valuable Cheetahmen memorabilia? Why is this different than the sticker? Neither is the game proper.

As for the import allegation, all games are imported anymore. Where they are intended to be marketed at is the distinction. There is no law that says this intention is only valid at the time of manufacture, only opinion. And the $$$ say where the popular opinion is. Popular enough, anyway

[NeoZeedeater]

Why aren't the other games considered to be Canadian?

It would be kind of redundant for digitalpress to make a separate Canada category (talking about all systems here). Virtually every US release would just be repeated. I think they should just change "US" to "North America" in the database since it's the same market. The SMS is the only big exception to the two countries being the same for releases. For the handful of SMS games that officially came out in Canada but not the US, they can just note that on the descriptions.

[theclaw]

In-game content original to Canada is even less frequent than that. Aside from French NTSC editions of Kirby's Adventure and The Legend of Zelda A Link to the Past... There's what?

[Gameguy]

It would be kind of redundant for digitalpress to make a separate Canada category (talking about all systems here). Virtually every US release would just be repeated. I think they should just change "US" to "North America" in the database since it's the same market. The SMS is the only big exception to the two countries being the same for releases. For the handful of SMS games that officially came out in Canada but not the US, they can just note that on the descriptions.

While that's generally true, there are certain games from various systems that have specific Canadian variants. Several NES games, SNES games, Genesis games, and others have Canada specific versions. While I don't really need the rarity guide to make separate listings for these versions as they're usually worth the same as the US versions, I still don't get why these Euro SMS games don't count as Canadian releases when they have different UPC codes and the rarity guide actually does have one game listed as a Canadian variant so others could be too. When these Euro games get released in Canada with new UPC codes they're still Euro releases, when a Euro game gets released in the US with a new UPC code it's a US release. How does that make sense?

[D_N_G]

one more sidenote, retailers like bestbuy are always slapping barcode stickers on packaging for releases that do not match the one underneath. they do this for bargain pricing, sale from sub distributors, or store exclusive releases, same goes for warehouse sales. the sku then matches only what is in the specific retailer's system.

[JeremiahJT]

When this issue comes up Sonic, Spiderman, and Strider are always mentioned but what about Golden Axe Warrior? Sometimes I see it listed as just having the bar code added to the Euro release like the rest. Are those instances just wrong or is it slightly different than the other three?

[NerdXCrewWill]

I'm kinda amazed how folks are comparing SMS game releases with DS game releases. Let's got to Atari 2600, if we're going to re-vamp a list. I think it's got about 900 too many games. Let's compare with the DS...

To complete your US DS collection, you need all pirate Pokemon carts and all homebrews. Otherwise, we need to revise the Atari 2600 list. And the NES, for that matter. Black cart of Ms Pac Man doesn't count. Or FF1. And Cheetahmen 2?!? Liscensed? Bye-bye!

Different times, different marketing strategies, different records, different laws at the time of release. Now we can split hairs all day long about what list is accurate, but Sonic is still rare as hell and people still want it.

Care to explain this a little more? How is comparing unlicensed releases of the 2600 and DS anything remotely like comparing UPCs of the SMS and DS?

[Sunnyvale]

Care to explain this a little more? How is comparing unlicensed releases of the 2600 and DS anything remotely like comparing UPCs of the SMS and DS?

Really? Really?!?

OK, unless a 2600 cart was made by Atari, it wasn't liscensed, and wouldn't make the cut on the DS list, would it? Like Pitfall, for example. By modern standards it would be a 'homebrew', eh?

If you try to apply modern methods to 25 year old products, you're comparing apples to oranges. Each list stands on it's own merit, based on where the games were released, and what common sense dictates as part of the library of the console. If one seeks to say 'All console lists musts fall under these strict guidelines', then many of the lists need fixed, and Atari 2600 tops that list.

[NerdXCrewWill]

Really? Really?!?

OK, unless a 2600 cart was made by Atari, it wasn't liscensed, and wouldn't make the cut on the DS list, would it? Like Pitfall, for example. By modern standards it would be a 'homebrew', eh?

If you try to apply modern methods to 25 year old products, you're comparing apples to oranges. Each list stands on it's own merit, based on where the games were released, and what common sense dictates as part of the library of the console. If one seeks to say 'All console lists musts fall under these strict guidelines', then many of the lists need fixed, and Atari 2600 tops that list.

Yeah, I get that you don't like comparing two generations of consoles.

Sure, there really wasn't anything comparable to a licensed/unlicensed distinction for the Atari 2600. No one is disputing that.

There's still no logical reason to object to Bojay adding to the argument that European DS games should be included as part of the NA set because they had an American UPC sticker added.