It begins.... Video game grading

[GrandAmChandler]

Let us all hope this fails. Miserably.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-MARIO-BROS-3-VGA-85-1990-NINTENDO-NES-SEALED_W0QQitemZ140221800336QQihZ004QQcategoryZ620 53QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://i10.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/e7/1f/c9bf_1.JPG

See the rest here:

http://stores.ebay.com/BigHedToyz_VIDEO-GAMES_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ12QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Thanks gamesniped.com for bringing this to my attention.

-GAC-

[neuropolitique]

Fucking Stupid. Hope this fails quickly while costing a bunch to those fucks.

[s1lence]

Thats a bunch of garbage, you know that loose games are coming.....

[cyberfluxor]

Hoping for the epic fail. This cannot go mainstream as there are too many game players over strictly collectors in this hobby. Most game collectors on here and elsewhere on-line do not agree with this so I really don't see how they can even take off.


Thats a bunch of garbage, you know that loose games are coming.....
This is one reason I don't see comic and baseball grading being 100% comparible. Games have a level of complete, then the little bits here and there constitute a grade. What if it's a wonderful box and cart, however a horrible manual. Will they throw the manual out because it'll bring the grade down? Just too many issues.

[Family Computer]

Who will be the first to complete a Sealed "10.0 Rated" NES Archive?

What a life goal!

[Soviet Conscript]

can the game be easily taken out of that thing or is it encased forever?

[GrandAmChandler]

can the game be easily taken out of that thing or is it encased forever?

It's just an acrylic case, I am sure you can remove it with some effort and break the seal, but that defeats the purpose of it being graded.

[mailman187666]

fuck that crap. The hobby is good enough the way it is, we don't need things like grading to make things cost collectors even more money. If you think its in good enough shape, add it to the collection.

[Jorpho]

If nothing else, it's a poor choice of acronyms. Searching for "VGA video games" will turn up a lot of unrelated results for people looking for graded games.

[98PaceCar]

Here's a prime example of what's wrong with grading companies. There was a very recent ebay auction for an ungraded Action Comics #1 that had a lot of collectors asking why the seller didn't have it graded. The seller (BlueChip in the thread below) replies with a great example of how things can go wrong with a grade and how inconsistent they can be. Scroll down about 5 or 6 posts and look at the pics and grades associated with them.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2300708&page=7#Post2300708

Note that these grades where handed out by CGC, probably the most "reliable" and accepted grading company for comics.

[scooterb23]

This could be the Dumbest Thing Ever (TM).

Anyone who buys into this is a damned fool.

[Virtualogik]

If nothing else, it's a poor choice of acronyms. Searching for "VGA video games" will turn up a lot of unrelated results for people looking for graded games.

So true!!!

Just because of that this has a big potential to fail since eBay will be the place to bring in business for them...

What were they thinking "VGA" ?? ... VCA or something that doesn't exist (Videogame collector authority or something...)..

Just another proof that their business plan is improvised and they don't put that much thoughts into this...

[doubledownon11]

What's gonna happen when the shrink warp on the game starts to constrict and slightly crush the game which I've seen happen on some titles over time? As long as it's graded high before the crushing happens then it's ok?

[Bojay1997]

Aside from the fact that I think this is just dumb, I can't believe they are assigning a grade based solely on the box and shrinkwrap. At least when they grade comics, cards or action figures, they can see the actual product and give an accurate rating to the entire package. Here, they have no idea if the manual was mangled at the factory, if the game was left in damp or hot weather and the cartridge sticker peeled, whether there was a mistake at the factory and something was missing or damaged, etc...I am a sealed collector, and I know that I take these risks as well, but I'm not paying someone $25 for this worthless service. Moreover, I like my sealed games in the same condition they would be in a retail store (mint and wrapped), not in some acrylic box with someone's logo at the top and a meaningless number grade.

[Pantechnicon]

No.

A thousand times no.

Not only no, but hell no.

Uh-uh.

No, sir....

[Apollo]

No.

A thousand times no.

Not only no, but hell no.

Uh-uh.

No, sir....

That pretty much sums it all up.

[Cinder6]

When I was into coin collecting, I would pretty much only buy online if it was graded. Not for any "prestige", but because there are a lot of scammers out there. It's pretty easy to fake a mint mark well enough that it's hard to tell on a photograph. If it's graded, you can be 99.9% sure that it's not fake.

But video games? Come on. I'm not a sealed collector or anything (I only own three sealed games, and I plan on opening one of them), but this just reeks of stupidity.

[GnawRadar]

This is fucking retarded as many people have said in various ways. But what if you have a beautiful cart, beautiful manual, beautiful box, and the game starts up and plays no problem, but the fucking battery is dead! Do they count that too? Lame.

[exit]

I remember someone posting this idea on here awhile back and it was met with very negative feedback, now it seems like people actually went through with the idea. Not that it really surprises me at all, but it'll be funny to see the whole thing crash and burn.

[cyberfluxor]

This actually reminds me, I need to get my vinyls and audio CDs graded. I've already listened to them before and maybe they're worth more in a plastic case with a number.

[Trevelyan]

Here's a link :) at gamesniped http://www.gamesniped.com/, brought up by googling Video Game Authority.

I love the fact the sellers called BigHed!

Let us all game on & ignore all this

[snes_collector]

Aside from the fact that I think this is just dumb, I can't believe they are assigning a grade based solely on the box and shrinkwrap. At least when they grade comics, cards or action figures, they can see the actual product and give an accurate rating to the entire package. Here, they have no idea if the manual was mangled at the factory, if the game was left in damp or hot weather and the cartridge sticker peeled, whether there was a mistake at the factory and something was missing or damaged, etc...I am a sealed collector, and I know that I take these risks as well, but I'm not paying someone $25 for this worthless service. Moreover, I like my sealed games in the same condition they would be in a retail store (mint and wrapped), not in some acrylic box with someone's logo at the top and a meaningless number grade.

Considering someone is actually dumb enough to do this, they may not even be able to tell a real-seal from an origional one.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

That neo_gamer a-hole doesn't have anything to do with this right? This is a horrible idea, and I hope at least he doesn't gain monetarily from this.

[James8BitStar]

No, this isn't rediculus.

What IS rediculus is that people are paying $90 for SMB3 and $140 for Final Fantasy 1.

[XYXZYZ]

No, this isn't rediculus.

What IS rediculus is that people are paying $90 for SMB3 and $140 for Final Fantasy 1.

And he wants $8.00 for a Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt cartridge, not even slabbed!. It does have that black Nintendo sleeve though.

[ProgrammingAce]

If i wanted to be a real asshole... i'd go have some boxes made up from the original maufacturer. Toss in some SMB/Duck Hunt, then seal it on the original equipment. Send it in to them and have them grade a "perfect" fake. See how many of those get through before people are up in arms...

[scooterb23]

Thing is Prog...unless someone broke the almighty slab ...noone would even know they had a fake if it was done that well.

[Ze_ro]

I would also like to voice my disappointment in this turn of events.

--Zero

[boatofcar]

Does anyone else not realize that if in fact this takes off it benefits the gaming community by lowering prices for non-slabbed games?

[GarrettCRW]

Does anyone else not realize that if in fact this takes off it benefits the gaming community by lowering prices for non-slabbed games?

Actually, we're just pissed that they haven't started grading sealed food, the greatest collectible of all.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Does anyone else not realize that if in fact this takes off it benefits the gaming community by lowering prices for non-slabbed games?

Has this benefitted any other hobby the way you're describing?

I am really asking, not being an ass...

Like in baseball cards and comics, for instance... did non-slabbed "specimen" prices nose dive once the practice was introduced? I don't think it did, but I'm making a very blind guess here. As in- I've never had anyone tell me about how they've benefitted from this in any other hobby.

[boatofcar]

Has this benefitted any other hobby the way you're describing?

I am really asking, not being an ass...

Like in baseball cards and comics, for instance... did non-slabbed "specimen" prices nose dive once the practice was introduced? I don't think it did, but I'm making a very blind guess here. As in- I've never had anyone tell me about how they've benefitted from this in any other hobby.

Of course. Let's take comics for instance. A non-slabbed gold or silver age book will be about half the price of a slabbed version. Just check ebay. Baseball cards graded or ungraded are so worthless now it's hard to see a difference. Unslabbed coins or coins slabbed by fly-by-night companies tend to go for about 75% of their slabbed counterparts.

It's hard to find specific examples because stock changes so much on ebay, but this is what I've found during the past two or three years I've looked at those three things.

[Cornelius]

Of course. Let's take comics for instance. A non-slabbed gold or silver age book will be about half the price of a slabbed version. Just check ebay. Baseball cards graded or ungraded are so worthless now it's hard to see a difference. Unslabbed coins or coins slabbed by fly-by-night companies tend to go for about 75% of their slabbed counterparts.

It's hard to find specific examples because stock changes so much on ebay, but this is what I've found during the past two or three years I've looked at those three things.
Just curious if you or anyone knows offhand because I'm too lazy to figure it out... How expensive does a book/coin have to be for it to be worthwhile? I guess I'm asking how much the grading costs.

[boatofcar]

Just curious if you or anyone knows offhand because I'm too lazy to figure it out... How expensive does a book/coin have to be for it to be worthwhile? I guess I'm asking how much the grading costs.

Coins cost about $20 to grade send off to grade, so realistically your coin should be worth more than that to make it worthwhile. Some people make a good living buying slabbed coins they think they can break open and resubmit in the effort to get a higher score and resell for a profit.

EDIT: I don't know much about comics, but here's CGC's faq page. I'm pretty sure they're the biggest grading outfit out there.

http://www.cgccomics.com/faq/index.asp

[Ze_ro]

Of course. Let's take comics for instance. A non-slabbed gold or silver age book will be about half the price of a slabbed version.
But is this because of non-graded items diminishing in price, or because of graded items increasing in price?

--Zero

[guitargary75]

It won't really affect me. I buy games to play, not to sit on a shelf in my house collecting dust. However, this may hurt the game collecting community as a whole via it will be hard to find certain games at a resonable price that are not sealed in some special grading package.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

What's gonna happen when the shrink warp on the game starts to constrict and slightly crush the game which I've seen happen on some titles over time? As long as it's graded high before the crushing happens then it's ok?
That rarely happens with Nintendo stuff...it's a lot more common with Atari stuff, etc. A very good point, though.

[y-bot]

Has this benefitted any other hobby the way you're describing?

I am really asking, not being an ass...

Like in baseball cards and comics, for instance... did non-slabbed "specimen" prices nose dive once the practice was introduced? I don't think it did, but I'm making a very blind guess here. As in- I've never had anyone tell me about how they've benefitted from this in any other hobby.

Here's a good example of a graded versus non-graded baseball card:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1982-Topps-21-Cal-Ripken-rookie-PSA-10_W0QQitemZ150229193412QQihZ005QQcategoryZ55869QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAL-RIPKEN-JR-1982-TOPPS-ROOKIE-NO-21-SHARP-NR-MINT_W0QQitemZ270221462874QQihZ017QQcategoryZ70400 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[TheDomesticInstitution]

But is this because of non-graded items diminishing in price, or because of graded items increasing in price?

--Zero


Yeah... that's sorta my question.


Here's a good example of a graded versus non-graded baseball card:

I know I can look at ebay right now, and see a big difference in prices. That was not my original question, so let me explain it better.

When grading was 1st introduced to these hobbies- and the 1st few years of the practice being in place, what happened to the value of non graded items? Did a standard, non-graded item increase in price or did it decrease? I'm not talking about relative value (to a graded item). Does anyone know the answer to this? What did a non graded item fetch before grading was introduced, and what did it fetch a year or two later?

[ProgrammingAce]

Thing is Prog...unless someone broke the almighty slab ...noone would even know they had a fake if it was done that well.

The whole point would be that i would break the slab myself, or send it to a neutral 3rd party to break to show that they can't distinguish fakes.

I think it would put a pretty quick stop to this nonsense.

[Jorpho]

It occurs to me: there's no way of telling just from looking at the box of SMB3 whether it's the original release or the second revision (i.e. with the corrected grammar in the spade house bonus game and the different world names at the end), is there?

But then, since no one will play this sealed SMB3 anyway, I guess it doesn't matter!

[Cornelius]

But then, since no one will play this sealed SMB3 anyway, I guess it doesn't matter!
:angel: ...as if it mattered to begin with! :angel:

So if it costs $20 to get something graded, it better be worth on the order of >$100, assuming it will be worth 25% more after grading. Otherwise shipping and the risk involved make it pointless. Well, more pointless. As I've never spent that much on a game, and never plan to, I can't see how this would ever affect me.

[Ed Oscuro]

The ironic thing is that unlike coins, slabbing a game doesn't protect it much. Batteries can still leak, and covers can still fade from sun.

[98PaceCar]

The whole point would be that i would break the slab myself, or send it to a neutral 3rd party to break to show that they can't distinguish fakes.

I think it would put a pretty quick stop to this nonsense.

I'll provide the SMB/DH carts.. All that you need!

[cyberfluxor]

Here's a good example of a graded versus non-graded baseball card...

Both of the auctions you showed look to be in similar conditions. I can be picky when digging for games and find it annoying when two similar conditioned games are priced so far off because some retailer feels the game is rare and out of print as a reasoning to make it expensive. I can only imagine what would begin spewing out of the local "rare" seller's mouth about a graded game.

[PapaStu]

Stop looking at these auctions! I plan to bid and win them all. I shall be the master of slabbed games! Get away! Shoo! There's nothing to see here!

Now to send off my DS and PS and PS2 games for grading.

[bangtango]

Two threads on the topic for anyone who cares:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107263&highlight=graded

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111264&highlight=graded

[boatofcar]

The ironic thing is that unlike coins, slabbing a game doesn't protect it much. Batteries can still leak, and covers can still fade from sun.

I think that comic slabs use special UV protectant (protectant is not a word?) plastic to help prevent fading, I assume the same would be true with video games.

[Blitzwing256]

It occurs to me: there's no way of telling just from looking at the box of SMB3 whether it's the original release or the second revision (i.e. with the corrected grammar in the spade house bonus game and the different world names at the end), is there?

But then, since no one will play this sealed SMB3 anyway, I guess it doesn't matter!


If I recall the fixed version says rev-a or rev-b on the box itself (like the zelda revisions do)

[Rob2600]

That neo_gamer a-hole doesn't have anything to do with this right? This is a horrible idea, and I hope at least he doesn't gain monetarily from this.


Two threads on the topic for anyone who cares:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107263&highlight=graded

Yes, neogamer was right. D'oh! He warned us this would happen, remember?


So if it costs $20 to get something graded, it better be worth on the order of >$100, assuming it will be worth 25% more after grading. Otherwise shipping and the risk involved make it pointless.

Exactly. As I wrote in the above thread, it'd only make sense to grade valuable games like Stadium Events, if at all. Grading a loose copy of Madden NFL '99 for the PlayStation would be a waste of money for the collector/seller.

[Ze_ro]

So, how long is it going to be before we see Room of Doom pictures with a shelf-full of slabbed games? Anyone else think it would end up looking a lot less impressive?

--Zero

[ProgrammingAce]

To take my idea a step further, if we can get some people with known reseals who are willing to pony up the $25, we can send them a bunch of fakes.

Websites like Kotaku and Joystiq and Consumerist would eat that shit up.

[DefaultGen]

.....

[Push Upstairs]

Meh.

This doesn't really affect buy buying habits.

Games is for playing!

[Famidrive-16]

Who will be the first to complete a Sealed "10.0 Rated" NES Archive?

What a life goal!

________________________

10.0 Rated Collection so far: 34 (out of 38)

*CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE*
- Balloon Fight
- Kid Icarus
- MC Kids
- Urban Champion

[GarrettCRW]

I just realized something: since the "slabs" in question are plastic, and oil prices are going a bit crazy, doesn't this mean that CGC is eventually going to be forced to increase the price of their "service" leading to even more increases on the prices of high-value games (because we all know where eBay sellers will put that $25 slabbing fee)? Also, how much of the post-slab price increases can be blamed on sellers trying to pass the fee off to the buyer?

[PapaStu]

________________________

10.0 Rated Collection so far: 34 (out of 38)

*CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE*
- Balloon Fight
- Kid Icarus
- MC Kids
- Urban Champion

Pics or it didn't happen

[y-bot]

Yeah... that's sorta my question.



I know I can look at ebay right now, and see a big difference in prices. That was not my original question, so let me explain it better.

When grading was 1st introduced to these hobbies- and the 1st few years of the practice being in place, what happened to the value of non graded items? Did a standard, non-graded item increase in price or did it decrease? I'm not talking about relative value (to a graded item). Does anyone know the answer to this? What did a non graded item fetch before grading was introduced, and what did it fetch a year or two later?

Sorry my example wasn't that great. At least in the area of comics and cards, non-graded "mint" items are worth far less than they were before grading became popular. I think you are going to see the most astronomical prices you've ever imagined for high grade sealed NES and SNES games soon. One other thing I was trying to bring up in another post is that the market for AFA graded toys is very manipulated. Most of the high end stuff is never sold at auction, only at fixed prices in Ebay stores by a few big dealers. I've sold a bunch of sealed 80's GI Joe figures on Ebay for a friend. Some we had AFA graded and some we did not. The really good stuff sold for around $500-$800 each whether they were graded or not but if you look in people's Ebay stores the same figures are $2000-$3000. I see that coming soon with videogames. Especially since it's the same dealers who are selling them. I'm really curious who the videogame graders are and I won't be at all surprised to find out it's someone from here who's keeping there mouth shut.

y-bot

[Ed Oscuro]

I think that comic slabs use special UV protectant (protectant is not a word?) plastic to help prevent fading, I assume the same would be true with video games.
Oh, you're right.

Somebody should ask this seller! ...or look it up on the site. Will do it tomorrow when I have some time.

[boatofcar]

I'm really curious who the videogame graders are and I won't be at all surprised to find out it's someone from here who's keeping there mouth shut.

y-bot

I doubt it. The parent company of VGA is AFA, the largest action figure grading company. They probably use the same guys to grade video games.

As far as detecting reseals, You can buy an x-ray machine that can see right through the cardboard. I wouldn't be surprised if they have one ready to go. I'm pretty sure Beckett grading services use them to grade unopened packs of cards.

I'm going to take the unpopular position on this one folks. I see this as a win-win for collectors and gamers. Collectors who collect sealed games can buy them on ebay without worrying that they're reseals, and gamers can still buy the games that they want to play. The only people who lose out here are gamers who only buy sealed games to open them. But hey, you can't please everybody.

[Ed Oscuro]

Actually, you can still have reseals - but they'll have to have a game inside.

Hard to say what the game actually will be, though - I didn't think X-Ray machines could resolve print on a label, after all. Sure, you can see the board internals, but usually that should only just narrow down which game it could be, as opposed to providing a definite ID.

[Sosage]

Actually, we're just pissed that they haven't started grading sealed food, the greatest collectible of all.

You can keep your sealed food. I buy food for eating, not storing. If there is any justice, your slabbed food is going to drive down the prices of my loose food.

...don't tell me neogamer is behind this.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Oh my! boatofcar is drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid! DON'T GIVE THEM A FOOTHOLD!

I think we sorta killed the messenger with neogamer... but, he was wanting in on it so, after all, he had it coming.

I'm gonna slab my house, cars, dogs and, hell why not, the wife! All that is mine and I love must be preserved and validated by an impartial 3rd party! It's only rational. Hell, I'm going to amend my Will to state that my cremated remains MUST be slabbed and graded too! Before my natural demise if possible! Can you contract a hit on yourself? Screw it, I'll just swan dive into the incinerator! FUN!

Pass the Kool-Aid! I brought some Everclear! I may even quit my job and slab my last paycheck! I'm sane... I swear. Don't touch my slabs! Itchy... Tasty.... SLABBS!!!!! BWAWWBWJFNEOPIUBPEONPON

[smork]

I've already sent my consoles off to be graded. I need my Vectrex in a slab, stat!

[Kevincal]

I'm curious as to what kind of people are grading the games at VGA... Can they even tell a reseal from an original!? It looks like people are paying big bucks for this stuff on eBay... :(

[Cinder6]

Just curious if you or anyone knows offhand because I'm too lazy to figure it out... How expensive does a book/coin have to be for it to be worthwhile? I guess I'm asking how much the grading costs.

This was sort of answered already, but I'll go into more detail. With coins, at least, it can be a sliding scale, based on the value of the coin, whether you want them to check the variant, whether it's an error coin, etc. PCGS is the main grader, though there are a few others (ICG, ANACS, etc.). The "regular" price is $30 for a single coin, and you have to either be a club member, or take it to an authorized dealer. Ultra-rare coins cost $500, and there's a scale in between. Mint errors are $40, variety attribution is an extra $20 on top of the normal grading fee.

For coins under $300, it's less than the regular price. Here's more info:

http://www.pcgs.com/grading_list.chtml

What was fun was getting a whole bunch of slabbed coins for $5 each :) I have no idea why somebody would slab a non-key date for a non-rare coin. It's just a waste of money at that point.

[demolition]

One other thing I was trying to bring up in another post is that the market for AFA graded toys is very manipulated. Most of the high end stuff is never sold at auction, only at fixed prices in Ebay stores by a few big dealers. I've sold a bunch of sealed 80's GI Joe figures on Ebay for a friend. Some we had AFA graded and some we did not. The really good stuff sold for around $500-$800 each whether they were graded or not but if you look in people's Ebay stores the same figures are $2000-$3000.

Hello all, new poster here, picked up the story on gamesniped and worked my way here. As an action figure collector, I share y-bot's concern about the market for AFA graded product. Indeed many AFA graded items never see the auction block and are instead offered at inflated prices in Ebay stores or fixed priced listings. Even if the item does not sell (which is often the case), the high prices create perceived value reinforcing the idea that AFA items sell for more.

Of greater concern is the relationship between AFA and the larger action figure dealers. Its no secret that Cloud City Collectibles popularized AFA grading. Its a little bit less clear the relationship between their former owner, Tom Derby and AFA. His name appears on a 2002 Certificate of Incorporation for AFA, available publicly from the state of Georgia here:

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/imaging/12990948.pdf

I'm not going to speculate as to the extent of his involvement, but its fairly obvious he maintained some relationship with AFA beyond customer while at the same time a principal in Cloud City.

Of interest to video game collectors is that Tom Derby and Brian's Toys have teamed to under the banner of Premier Collectible Auctions. Their first live sale will take place July 25 & 26th in San Diego, CA and will include over 40 lots of sealed, graded video games. The auction catalog is available here -

http://www.premiercollect.com/catalog/full.zip

Given Derby's previous relationship with AFA, I wonder if his and Brian's Toys' entry into the game market might have influenced AFA's decision to begin grading video games.

DEMOLITION

[Bojay1997]

I doubt it. The parent company of VGA is AFA, the largest action figure grading company. They probably use the same guys to grade video games.

As far as detecting reseals, You can buy an x-ray machine that can see right through the cardboard. I wouldn't be surprised if they have one ready to go. I'm pretty sure Beckett grading services use them to grade unopened packs of cards.

I'm going to take the unpopular position on this one folks. I see this as a win-win for collectors and gamers. Collectors who collect sealed games can buy them on ebay without worrying that they're reseals, and gamers can still buy the games that they want to play. The only people who lose out here are gamers who only buy sealed games to open them. But hey, you can't please everybody.

I disagree that this is a win-win. When this happened in comic books, prices on the slabbed versions increased as did the prices on high grade copies as people snapped them up in the hopes of having them slabbed and making a profit with their flip. Over time, things stabilized a little, but my hopes that it would raise the profile of the hobby and result in rare items being found and sold for cheaper prices as supply increased never panned out. I don't think the impact will be as profound in video games as comics had already been popular collectibles for over 25 years at the time slabbing came into being, but the fact that videogames are a massive business could accelerate the whole timeframe.

[y-bot]

Hello all, new poster here, picked up the story on gamesniped and worked my way here. As an action figure collector, I share y-bot's concern about the market for AFA graded product. Indeed many AFA graded items never see the auction block and are instead offered at inflated prices in Ebay stores or fixed priced listings. Even if the item does not sell (which is often the case), the high prices create perceived value reinforcing the idea that AFA items sell for more.

Of greater concern is the relationship between AFA and the larger action figure dealers. Its no secret that Cloud City Collectibles popularized AFA grading. Its a little bit less clear the relationship between their former owner, Tom Derby and AFA. His name appears on a 2002 Certificate of Incorporation for AFA, available publicly from the state of Georgia here:

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/imaging/12990948.pdf

I'm not going to speculate as to the extent of his involvement, but its fairly obvious he maintained some relationship with AFA beyond customer while at the same time a principal in Cloud City.

Of interest to video game collectors is that Tom Derby and Brian's Toys have teamed to under the banner of Premier Collectible Auctions. Their first live sale will take place July 25 & 26th in San Diego, CA and will include over 40 lots of sealed, graded video games. The auction catalog is available here -

http://www.premiercollect.com/catalog/full.zip

Given Derby's previous relationship with AFA, I wonder if his and Brian's Toys' entry into the game market might have influenced AFA's decision to begin grading video games.

DEMOLITION

I knew Cloud City and Brian's Toys would have some AFA connection. I posted about that auction the other day but since you have to sign up to get the pdf catalog I don't think anyone really looked at it. One thing that I think is going to change with sealed game values is an increase in price of non-Nintendo stuff. Right now sealed NES and SNES games can be worth way more than a mint boxed copy but with Atari 2600, Intellivision, Genesis, etc. there is much less difference in price between mint boxed and sealed. I feel like that's going to change real soon. I'll be interested to see how the stuff in that auction does. Also I think that catalog says that stuff is a "collection", yeah right.

y-bot

[kainemaxwell]

Considering someone is actually dumb enough to do this, they may not even be able to tell a real-seal from an original one.

Be great if someone discovered many of them were reseals...and then the ones behind this whine and try to dispute the facts with actual collectors.

[TonyTheTiger]

I have my own problems with the grading of anything as a sign of value. That mostly deals with the arbitrary nature of what I find is a market tolerated scam. But besides that, I'm wondering if this could be bad for the industry as a whole. At least in the short term.

Imagine a scenario similar to what happened to Marvel Comics a decade or so ago.

People start to see that graded games are fetching absurd prices. A lot of people then decide to become half-assed Sunday afternoon speculators. They start buying up new copies of games in hopes of getting very high grades and reselling for profit. Not a big deal, right? So a few speculators get burned.

But here's the problem. Imagine a smaller company like NIS or Atlus. If all of a sudden there's a huge spike in sales they'll start printing more copies to match the increased demand. So the next title gets 100,000 (random number) copies printed, the one after that gets 250,000, the one after that...350,000 and so on. Now what do you think is going to happen when all of these Sunday afternoon speculators find they're not making the killing they thought they would? They stop buying almost immediately. Now Atlus or NIS goes to release another title with a print run of 400,000 but lo and behold, there aren't thousands of people there to buy 3 or 4 copies of the same game. The publisher finds itself sitting on a grotesquely large supply of unsellable merchandise. That could drive a small publisher bankrupt.

[Slate]

And he wants $8.00 for a Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt cartridge, not even slabbed!. It does have that black Nintendo sleeve though.

I'd be freaking rich if I could get $8 per SMB/DH cart.

[guitargary75]

I don't know.

[Sotenga]

Y'know, my dummy self didn't even know what the big deal was with this entire racket at first glance. Then... my eyes caught the price of SMB3. I did a spit take without even drinking any water first. Yeah, eww. X_X

[Poofta!]

im with all of you this. i hate neo-gamer (if he had anything to do with this) and whoever did it.

cant wait till flop. i automatically hate everyone collecting 10s. freaking lame.


thing im afraid of is it will raise prices of non graded games since pple will be looking for mint copies to send to be graded. f--k f--k!@!!!!


worst thing to happen to our hobby yet.