Where Sega messed up with Sonic

[TonyTheTiger]

It is pretty sad when the comic books, based on a short lived cartoon from 1993-1994, are the best Sonic has to offer these days. The DIC/Archie continuity is not only more interesting than what Sega itself did with the character, but Sonic actually running is featured more often, as well.

If there is any series that needs to go back to basics it's Sonic. Maybe taking a hint from Capcom and what they're doing with Mega Man would do the trick.

[kedawa]

It's also sad that the best Sonic game in years is a fanhack of the first game in the series...

[Famidrive-16]

I dare you to say that during ANYWHERE but the last zone of Sonic 3.

green hill zone

[Sosage]

Presentation wise: Taking it's backstory seriously enough to add a crap load of characters, while in the same swoop destroying it by 1) just throwing darts at a wall of ideas or whatever they could interpret from an executive's doodle on a wet bar napkin 2) pandering to the furry set that has latched onto the franchise.

Gameplay wise: Forgot the entire thing was about the choice between platforming carefully and exploring or platforming incredibly fast and looking for ways to collect "enough" coins while finding ways of going even faster. Both styles had a risk and reward system that didn't punish you for doing one over the other. I've yet to play a non-2D Sonic that does this well. SA1 and 2 get a nod though, because fuck, at least those tried.

[Wraith Storm]

The 2d Sonic games were Sonic at his the best. The Dreamcast Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 games were pretty freakin' good for the time. Sure they were a bit rough around the edges but they were admirable efforts. Pretty much everything after the DC installments has been lackluster.

The Sonic 06' game had some major issues but there was alot of good stuff to be found in that game as well.

But the best 3d Sonic game I have ever played is, unfortunately, the 3D section of Sonic Jam on the Saturn. It was just a tease of what could be, but damn was it fun. Not only did it showcase some of the best 3d ever done on the Saturn, but it also replicated the "look and feel" of a classic Sonic game. Something that even the DC efforts failed to do. It has the iconic brown checkered walls, the floating platforms and the bright green grass. The familiar Sonic world of the 2D installments is rendered beautifully by the Saturn. I boot it up off and on throughout the year and play through that level completing all of the tasks and mini missions. It is a perfect template and I still dream of a 3D Sonic game being handled like that area.

[vivaeljason]

I hated Sonic back in the early 90's. Having a mascot with "attitude" was apparently the hip thing at the time. Bonk for Turbo Grafx I liked but could never get into Sonic. The Sega commercials in the 80's were serious, and in the 90's, Sega became cool and had to be sarcasticly funny. That's when they lost me.

I'm wondering how Sega would have ever been able to compete with Nintendo with Alex Kidd as its flagship series. Don't get me wrong, the Alex Kidd games are fun, but if that was what was offered as the BIG title to compete with the Mario games, the Genesis would have flopped miserably -- Sonic fit the attitude that Sega was trying to go for, and the fast-paced platforming of the games is what made them fun.

[TonyTheTiger]

2) pandering to the furry set that has latched onto the franchise.

To be fair, charming furry creatures was always what Sonic was all about.

[JSoup]

To be fair, charming furry creatures was always what Sonic was all about.

The day that a set of characters in the Archie Sonic comics referred to all the animal-like characters as 'furries' was a day that the cry of a thousand outraged Sonic fans could be detected from Mars.

[Zap!]

I don't care how corny Sonic (as a character is or was). The early games were good. I mean if you think about it Mario is just as bad on the cornball scale, but Mario games (in general) have always been good and fun. So people overlook that.

Creating Sonic was probably the best business decision Sega ever made at the time. Alex Kidd wasn't going to cut it, they obviously knew this.

I agree with what most have said though. The secondary characters are out of control and pointless. Sonic and Tails should be the heroes. Knuckles should be the antihero. Robonik should be the bad guy.

Hopefully Project Needlemouse will revive Sonic. I won't hold my breath however.

In the end though what has killed Sonic is that the games since Sega went 3rd party have been terrible (in general). Story and secondary characters haven't helped this, but if the games were good most people would easily overlook these issues.

I had fun with the first Sonic, but I never loved the game. It's too fast paced. Compare it to a game from its time like Super Mario World. I think it's safe to say that most people prefer SMW by a sizable margin. The original Sonic is what it is, a good fun game. Not mascot worthy though.

Alex Kidd could have cut it if they could have just came out with a game that had the spirit of the original. Actually, Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle was good and like the original. Maybe Sega should have pushed it more, with Alex Kidd all over every add.

[TonyTheTiger]

The day that a set of characters in the Archie Sonic comics referred to all the animal-like characters as 'furries' was a day that the cry of a thousand outraged Sonic fans could be detected from Mars.

That actually happened? I actually have read the entire series up to this point and can't remember that. If so, that's goofy and hysterical at the same time. It's Goosterical.

[Gameguy]

For now I'll just comment on the official cannon that some people are complaining about. It didn't really have any as each region had a different origin story. North America, Europe, and Japan all had different stories and supporting characters even back when the games first came out(if you paid attention to the comics and TV shows from different regions). According to the comics, Europe had Robotnik who was created after an accident(caused by Sonic) and was originally named "Kintobor". He wasn't evil until after the accident caused by Sonic, and the same accident turned Sonic blue.

Even comparing just North America. There were 2 separate TV shows featuring different characters and plots, airing at the same time. The cannon wasn't even consistent back then. I really enjoyed the shows, but thinking back some things bother me now. All of the characters' parents were the same species as the character, yet for the show(and comic that still continues) the characters openly date different characters from different species. I didn't really think about it when I was a kid but later on I started to wonder about that.

[vivaeljason]

I had fun with the first Sonic, but I never loved the game. It's too fast paced. Compare it to a game from its time like Super Mario World. I think it's safe to say that most people prefer SMW by a sizable margin. The original Sonic is what it is, a good fun game. Not mascot worthy though.

Alex Kidd could have cut it if they could have just came out with a game that had the spirit of the original. Actually, Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle was good and like the original. Maybe Sega should have pushed it more, with Alex Kidd all over every add.

I really don't think that this guy...


...would have worked as a mascot for Sega when Sega was distinctly trying to separate itself from Nintendo as something different. Besides all of that, the Alex Kidd games really didn't show off the capabilities of the Genesis when it came to the much bally-hooed "blast processing."

[Arkhan]

yeah, mongoloid-like chimp men aren't really much different than mario.

different accent maybe? lol


I think Sonic and the entire world they created out of it is much cooler than Marios mushroom kingdom stuff.

Cmon? Spring Yard Zone? what's better than that!

[vivaeljason]

yeah, mongoloid-like chimp men aren't really much different than mario.

different accent maybe? lol


I think Sonic and the entire world they created out of it is much cooler than Marios mushroom kingdom stuff.

Cmon? Spring Yard Zone? what's better than that!

Okay...getting past the dripping sarcasm, I realize that Alex Kidd isn't a Mario ripoff, but the fact of the matter is that I think that Sega was aiming for a specific group (pre-teen boys who were "too old" for Nintendo's "kiddyness") with their marketing, and that Sonic was a much better fit for that group than Alex Kidd was.

Edit: Obviously, I'm in the minority with this, but the simple fact is that a lot of people in that age group, myself included fell for the hook, and became Genesis and Sonic fans. I really don't think that an Alex Kidd game would have achieved the same result.

[JSoup]

That actually happened? I actually have read the entire series up to this point and can't remember that. If so, that's goofy and hysterical at the same time. It's Goosterical.

I've read up until 191 and 200 as a standalone, so I don't remember which issue it was in, however it was in one of the stories that explained the Overlanders history. The line read 'We call them the furries.' There was a huge explosion of rage in most of the Sonic communities, as Archie had effectively marked 'furrie' as a derogatory form of 'furry' and had solidly connected Sonic with the furry fandom (something that had shortly before this point had been established by a storyboarder for Family Guy who was trying to restart SatM Sonic).

[Zap!]

I'm wondering how Sega would have ever been able to compete with Nintendo with Alex Kidd as its flagship series. Don't get me wrong, the Alex Kidd games are fun, but if that was what was offered as the BIG title to compete with the Mario games, the Genesis would have flopped miserably -- Sonic fit the attitude that Sega was trying to go for, and the fast-paced platforming of the games is what made them fun.

I really don't think that this guy...


...would have worked as a mascot for Sega when Sega was distinctly trying to separate itself from Nintendo as something different. Besides all of that, the Alex Kidd games really didn't show off the capabilities of the Genesis when it came to the much bally-hooed "blast processing."

The Genesis was released in the US right around (give or take a few days) August 20th, 1989. Sonic did not come out until 1991. The Genesis in 1991 was gaining steam fast even before the game came out. It was getting positive reviews in the media, and many people were upset with Nintendo for not releasing the SNES until late 1991, not to mention how the TG-16 was going nowhere. I personally think if they had heavily promoted AK more the Genesis would have been a hit anyway.

That picture you posted was Alex's look in Enchanted Castle, a great game in its own sense. Had Sega heavily developed for AK, I can only imagine how popular he could have became. Perhaps Enchanted Castle as a pack-in?

[Sosage]

I've read up until 191 and 200 as a standalone, so I don't remember which issue it was in, however it was in one of the stories that explained the Overlanders history. The line read 'We call them the furries.' There was a huge explosion of rage in most of the Sonic communities, as Archie had effectively marked 'furrie' as a derogatory form of 'furry' and had solidly connected Sonic with the furry fandom (something that had shortly before this point had been established by a storyboarder for Family Guy who was trying to restart SatM Sonic).

This is actually really interesting. I made my original statement not knowing about this at all. Just that a lot of the Sonic fandom I've seen on the Internet seems to be tied to, if not being straight up a piece of adult furry fantasy. When I look at stuff coming out this generation, I notice that Sega is pretty much pandering to this group. It becomes blatant with STH 360.

It also doesn't help that some ideas feel like bad Internet fan fiction. Shadow? I mean...really? Sega and George Lucas should totally swap notes.

This isn't so much dogging what people wank to, as dogging Sega for twisting their franchise's presentation to such a degree in order to fan service a fringe group.

[Arkhan]

Okay...getting past the dripping sarcasm,
.

I wasnt being sarcastic....

bonks cooler than sonic AND mario anyways.

climbs walls with his teeth, goes inside dinosaurs, gets sneezed out into space!?

completely awesome.

[Zap!]

I wasnt being sarcastic....

bonks cooler than sonic AND mario anyways.

climbs walls with his teeth, goes inside dinosaurs, gets sneezed out into space!?

completely awesome.

Bonk was awesome. I seriously wonder why Sony and MS never really got on the mascot bandwagon. Their systems seriously need them.

[TonyTheTiger]

They did make an attempt early on but they were just really half-hearted ones. Sony with Crash Bandicoot and MS with Master Chief. They kind of said, "Oh, those are the most famous characters on our system at the moment? Ok, put their pictures somewhere."