Actually, this is a dick-waving contest. Watch yourself.Originally Posted by tomaitheous
Actually, this is a dick-waving contest. Watch yourself.
I have a weird psychological block because I can't enjoy the music in a video game unless it's being produced in real time by the console.
It's sort of like when I go to a fancy looking web site and realize the whole thing was built in Flash. Nothing is a separate element...it's all just part of the static Flash file. When I resize the browser, the text and images don't reflow. Of course, it takes talent to build a web site in Flash, but to me, I'm really impressed when a programmer can pull off something similarly fancy by adhering to web standards and using fluid HTML, CSS, PHP, etc. I'm old-fashioned that way.
I feel the same way about pre-rendered FMV in video games. I get no enjoyment from them and prefer real-time cinema scenes using the actual game engine. Again, it obviously takes talent to make FMV, but I'm more impressed by a developer who can pull off something similar using its own game engine.
I'm not saying prerecorded audio (or FMV) should be banned from video games, I'm just trying to explain the mindset I'm coming from. I know I'm in the minority.
Anyway, does anyone know which developers preferred the Genesis and which preferred the SNES? I'll get the list going:
Genesis:
EA
Technosoft
Virgin
SNES:
Argonaut
Capcom
Enix
Konami
Square
There must be other developers who preferred the Genesis and vice versa, but I'm not familiar enough to know who they are. Add them to the list!
Last edited by Rob2600; 05-20-2010 at 11:45 PM.
To have some more fun with this topic I am going to list 10 Genesis SNES ports and everyone say which you think has better better Gameplay/Controls, Sound/Music, and Graphics/Visuals. Then I will list 10 more. I am going to do this randomly so sorry if we have discussed some already.
1. Aerobiz
2. Battletoads & Double Dragon: The Ultimate Team
3. Aero the Acro-Bat
4. Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure
5. Fatal Fury 2
6. Cool Spot
7. Boogerman: A Pick and Flick Adventure
8. Zool
9. Joe & Mac: Caveman Ninja
10. Chuck Rock
All right now everyone chip in on what you think about each title.
Where's my chippy? There's my chippy.
Why list companies where they didn't release games on both platforms?
Where's my chippy? There's my chippy.
Because I think it's interesting to see which companies stuck with which console. Maybe we'll find out that more European developers preferred the Genesis, while more Japanese developers preferred the SNES. (I'm just using that as an example.)
Capcom favoured SNES while Virgin (or Dave Perry at least) seemed biased towards MD. Technosoft obviously preferred MD.
I actually haven't played both versions extensively of any of the listed games, so I'll have to pass for now.
Well, I don't know about comparing the Genesis/SNES versions of those, but I still feel that Midway was the only company that knew how to make quality sports games. NBA Jam TE and NBA Hangtime were the best basketball games, and the only ones I can stomach to this day. I can't believe EA had to take over sports gaming and mostly ruin it.
Thinking about games there were different from SNES to Genesis, Power Rangers The Movie comes to mind. Same title, but I remember it being totally different between the two systems. I always liked the Genesis one.
p.s. I preferred the Mortal Kombat games on SNES because I had this crazy turbo controller that made Lui Kang bicycle kick non-stop.
Last edited by Viper187; 05-21-2010 at 11:09 AM.
Yeah, I can definitely relate to that.I feel the same way about pre-rendered FMV in video games. I get no enjoyment from them and prefer real-time cinema scenes using the actual game engine. Again, it obviously takes talent to make FMV, but I'm more impressed by a developer who can pull off something similar using its own game engine.
Somewhat on topic, IIRC Steve Snake (of the Genesis emulation fame) worked on NBA JAM for the Genesis (and some SNES titles too).
You're completely wrong and need to check your facts better.
Huh? Ok, I'll bite. SNES bass is hurt by it's filter process... It affects not just one source, but the entire lowband frequency output. Bass is basically EQ'd down in db, reducing it's presence in the mix or producing odd volume/clipping variances when measures are taken in attempt to make the lowband more prominent. Fact.
It's not a matter of choice, the SNES sound system was gimped for bass, by the sound systems design. Unintentional as it might have been. But IDK, I haven't exactly asked Kutaragi himself about WTF he was thinking either... Wavetable synthesis was a big deal back then, but it's got barely any love/following today.
Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 05-23-2010 at 07:29 AM.
This signature is dedicated to all those
cyberpunks who fight against injustice
and corruption every day of their lives
Hahaha. (try again)
I do got to say, in alot of ways I always felt like Konami gypped the Genesis on the games it released for the most part. Bloodlines and Rocket Knight were fantastic, but on average stuff like Hyperstone Heist, Sunset Riders, and TMNT Tournament Fighters were not up to snuff over all. I know people love Contra HC alot, but it doesn't hold a candle to Contra 3, and it went in a totally different direction then what the prior Contras had been. Its sad because they could have produced far better games then those, but just felt like they didn't always seem to take their Genesis products all that serious at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C6iHlBN_ZM
What probrem with bass?!
Sounds good to me. Maybe it isn't as thick and synthy as the FM basses... but if you had that kind of bass with nice, crisp, digital samples of strings and such, it wouldn't fit very well. It would be like New Order covering the bass for a symphonic orchestra. lol
To fix that, you'd have to sample in more synthy sounding stuff for it all to blend well..... and then you would be moving away from what the SNES is good at, which is high quality sampling that resembles real acoustic instruments as opposed to synthesized stuff.
FM and SNES sampling two very different and very good beasts.
Both systems do what they do perfectly... SNES doesn't get the thick, chuggy bass, and Genesis doesn't get the smooth, warm violin sounds. It happens.
That reminds me of a friend who bitched and moaned that an analog synth I sold him wouldn't sound like a grand piano.
I looked at him and said "Duh?".
Though like I said, if you want to split hairs and be all technical... you COULD sample FM crap on the SNES and make it sound pretty synthofized....
and you could also make an entire CD soundtrack made of FM sounds as well...or SNES sounds. Whatever you want really! CD audio isn't going to be interactive of course, but you could do just about anything you want with CD audio lol. You could record touch tone phone tones and use a coffee can for a drum if you want...
So what really is better than what here? I think it's all good.
As for orchestral Genesis stuff.... these were the first two things to come to mind...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I30Zqtrl9S4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1MCLMRKklQ
They may not be OMGAWESOME to some people, but man, those marching drums in Shining Force, and the fluttering flute noises are superbly awesome.
and another not genesis, but still FM thing that is pretty wacky and orchestral:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAFjhHZ6E-o
Yea. I wonder if nintendo was giving Konami some extra incentives to make sweetness there instead.
The only part of Contra HC that is better than Alien Wars is the character selection and custom weapons for each one.
Other then that, yeah... its like a watered down version of Alien Wars or something.
Aetherbyte: PC-Engine and more homebrew
Hard Corps is my favorite Contra game. What's better about Alien Wars? Hard Corps has better graphics, sound, controls, gameplay, bosses, and level design, IMO. I especially didn't like the overhead levels in Alien Wars, they were rather dull.
Alien Wars has better graphics, sound, controls, gameplay, bosses, and level design, IMO.
Where's my chippy? There's my chippy.
The graphics + sound comparison is up to opinion I think.
The controls are about the same in both. Neither suck. Its Konami. They don't do these things/
I like Alien Wars more because it is a continuation of what I expect from Contra: Red guy and Blue guy whoopin' ass. It's like a perfect enhancement to the NES game.
and the motorcycle+rocket missle pod level is my favorite
I like Hard Corps, but what really ruins it for me is that alot of the levels are "meh". Like the junkyard. I really don't care for that level at all. Other then that, the Cyberpunk setting, and actual story + talking is pretty nice. Plus, Sheena's lazer is the best weapon ever made in a game. lol
What would have been great is the character choices in HC combined with the levels from Alien Wars.
Aetherbyte: PC-Engine and more homebrew
Then how do you explain the music in Donkey Kong Country and Super Castlevania IV, to name two? At least on my sound system, those games have nice, strong low frequencies.
The compositions themselves are fine, but I hate the FM synth sound of the instruments in that video. That's exactly the kind of Genesis music I've been posting about that I can't stand. I'd much rather listen to SNES music any day. I've actually heard more pleasing-sounding synth tones coming from the NES and ColecoVision.
To my ears, NES music has a fuller, more enjoyable sound than that thin, irritating Genesis sound in Shining Force (and Altered Beast, Space Harrier II, Golden Axe, World Championship Soccer, etc.).
Actually, in a sense Nintendo was doing this to fight against the Genesis. Nintendo held exclusivity rights to both TMNT: Turtles in Time and Street Fighter II, two of the biggest arcade games of that generation. (And possibly others as well?) Hence why TMNT: Hyperstone Heist isn't a port of Turtles in Time, rather a completely different game. And why Capcom had to wait (Or find the loophole in the contract, whatever they did) to release SF II on the Genesis,
And truth be told, the graphics and gameplay of Hyperstone Heist is much better compared to Turtles in Time. It's a shame the level design of Hyperstone Heist was so blah for the most part.
I guess, but Contra III looks and sounds relatively "basic" compared to the flashy stuff going on in Hard Corps. Hard Corps did come later, so I don't really fault Alien Wars for it. Alien Wars also has some nasty slowdown in places, which Hard Corps is pretty much free of.The graphics + sound comparison is up to opinion I think.
Alien Wars lacks the slide maneuver.The controls are about the same in both. Neither suck. Its Konami. They don't do these things
So would you like Hard Corps more if it didn't have the word "Contra" in the title?I like Alien Wars more because it is a continuation of what I expect from Contra: Red guy and Blue guy whoopin' ass. It's like a perfect enhancement to the NES game.
Heh, that's the exact complaint I have about Alien Wars. The second level in particular is just boring IMO.I like Hard Corps, but what really ruins it for me is that alot of the levels are "meh".
I thought that level was alright. I dug the "VR" boss fight at the end. Not my favorite level in the game though.Like the junkyard. I really don't care for that level at all. Other then that, the Cyberpunk setting, and actual story + talking is pretty nice. Plus, Sheena's lazer is the best weapon ever made in a game. lol
There are times when you could think to yourself "boy, what I wouldn't be able to do with this post...sometime when I'm writing about something I talk about." Writing crazy stuff isn't going to get you that hot journo position that'll let you ask Kutaragi "WTF he was thinking" when he designed one of the best sound subsystems in a game console ever.
I've been beaten to it - Super Castlevania IV came immediately to mind.
It's been a little while since I glanced at some SPC700 references (the Alpha-II ones actually) and yeah..nothing there about filters that I remember.
The secret (such that there is one) of the SNES sound hardware is...well, it's complicated. The ability to run code at the developer's whims was a big part of its success; they just programed something to run a file, MIDI or whatever format they liked; it could be an Amiga tracker style thing (Wolf Child seems to me an example of this) or it could be quasi-chiptune, or it could use samples heavily as Super Castlevania IV did (not to say the others don't). So if somebody doesn't know how to use bass, or the musician's tracker setup doesn't produce good bass, that gets sent right over and the 8-bitter faithfully duplicates that unconvincing bass when playing the song format sent over by the SPC700. You can set up wavetables, kind of, I guess, on the SNES, but I don't think there are fixed ones. You simply load in a program and whoo off it goes! It gets sent over to the sound chip with the schedule of notes and the rest.
I don't get the "Bass is basically EQ'd down in db" line. I had to think for a moment to remember that you didn't mean Dairy Queen (some kind of Process I think) but decibels (which is what EQ would do, which seems a redundant thing to say, to me). Could you be judging the SNES by an emulator or television speakers going bad or something?
The Genesis did fairly well because the main portion was an off-the-shelf synth chip that was designed to be an all-in-one. Many folks knew the series from programming arcade chips or from using Yamaha synthesizers. You could do great things with it, but only within an envelope. Unless some game loaded in some custom samples (I thought those were saved for sound effects mainly) you were stuck with the on-chip samples.
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