Nintendo Reveals Mario Maker

[kai123]

We get it...

So you enjoy a circle jerk instead of other opinions? I have a Wii U and I agree with some points Tanooki makes. All of them? No, but I respect his opinion on it. It is good to hear other people's opinions on things it helps you grow as a person.

He gave all the reasons that he didn't like it. If you have a different opinion then write up a counterpoint. There is no reason to get upset at anyone on a message board. Considering the small amount of visitors to the forum it isn't a bad thing to have someone you disagree with you. At least it keeps you coming back.

[Leo_A]

So you enjoy a circle jerk instead of other opinions?

No, criticism certainly has its place. But the same thing doesn't need to be voiced every few days, or in threads where it has little relevance to the topic at hand.

This thread isn't about someone's opinions of the Wii U and its high profile releases, it's about Mario Maker. His rant is very much off-topic.

It is good to hear other people's opinions on things it helps you grow as a person.

We're talking about a message board about videogames, my friend. If you think that you've somehow been helped to grow as a person by reading threads like this, I don't know what to say.

There is no reason to get upset at anyone on a message board.

If you think I was upset as I read that, you're greatly mistaken and shouldn't be so hasty to just assume such a fact.

Considering the small amount of visitors to the forum it isn't a bad thing to have someone you disagree with you.

I'm all for disagreeing and I'm always ready for a spirited debate. But once again, this topic was about Mario Maker and everyone is already familiar with his feelings towards modern day Nintendo and the Wii U specifically.

[The Adventurer]

'Mario Kart past its prime' is the biggest 'opinion as fact' statement I've seen in a while. It completely ignores reality.

[Tanooki]

Hardly

I wouldn't know

Pure speculation

So what?


For someone that finds so little here of interest, you sure like to run on and on with the same statements at every opportunity.

Give us a break since at this point, anyone that visits here even occasionally knows your views about how Nintendo stole your money and then proceeded to disappoint you in every way possible. You've been going around at every opening giving us the benefit of your insight on why what we find appealing, really isn't and that we're just being duped.

We get it...

Leo, Mario Kart is very beyond it's prime depending how you approach it. If you were into it for the local single or multiplayer, that is beyond its prime. The main game is all about online play now.

It is NOT speculation that Zelda on Wii U is an open world game of massive size. Have you not paid attention to the news out there, let alone the pics and stuff this last week with Miyamoto and Aonuma playing it and showing how large the world is and open to do whatever? They made it so you can go as far as the eye can see and then some as anything seen is approachable with enough time, and a spot between and arrow and an X on screen (wii u pad) that were like 1/2inch across took like 5-10min to get there and that's just that area of the game. It's huge and as they've said you can do whatever or do the dungeons as you find them but it's open to do whatever like how I drew a comparison to a Skyrim type game. That's drastically different than the Zelda we grew up with.

So what, what? I just was drawing a comparison to Mario Maker to the LBP stage making, that's all, it wasn't a plus or a minus so why the quote?

If you don't like my posts I suggest one of two things. Don't read them, or have me banned because I'm not going to stop because you don't agree. Drinking the console based Nintendo kool-aid isn't for me anymore, and if it is for you that's fine, but I have every right to post how I feel as much as you do. My so called 'rant' I only did because that guy asked me why I felt as I do about WiiU and in general the Smash and Kart franchises so I answered him and I guess I didn't feel a need to take it to a private message since he didn't ask in one. Had that been PM'd to me I would have done that back. Kai is very right in his answer there, we need a difference of opinion here and not a circle jerk otherwise it just turns into another NintendoAge of be a sheep or get turned into lambchops mentality there.

[kupomogli]

Mario Maker looks to be a million times better than LittleBigPlanet.

When it comes to ease of use, atleast in comparison to LBP and LBP2, but more than likely also LBP3, Mario Maker is much better, but Mario Maker has nothing on LBP when it comes to functionality.

[Leo_A]

Leo, Mario Kart is very beyond it's prime depending how you approach it.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I very much disagree with yours, but I do respect it. I just don't see why you felt the need to initially voice it in a thread about Mario Maker.

Shouldn't it of been placed in a thread about Mario Kart 8 or a thread for people's opinions on the Wii U in general, instead of one dedicated to a particular title that isn't MK8?

It is NOT speculation that Zelda on Wii U is an open world game of massive size.

They've said it has open world elements and that the world would be large. You're the one taking some vague statements and turning it around into criticism.

Let's wait for some actual facts before passing judgement. They've shown off very little of this title so far, and haven't said much more. They have the better part of a year left in development, so I don't get the haste...

I just was drawing a comparison to Mario Maker to the LBP stage making, that's all, it wasn't a plus or a minus so why the quote?

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I assume you're questioning something I said. Note that I wasn't critical of anything you said that had anything remotely to do with Mario Maker, including drawing fair and natural comparisons to another popular franchise that involves 2D style platforming and user created content.

Don't read them, or have me banned because I'm not going to stop because you don't agree.

A: I don't want you banned, even if I could.

B: I don't want you to agree with everything I say.

What I said was something very much different and had to do about trying to remain on-topic.

Drinking the console based Nintendo kool-aid isn't for me anymore, and if it is for you that's fine, but I have every right to post how I feel as much as you do.

Never asked you to become a Nintendo fanboy, I do my own share of criticizing them, and I didn't say that you didn't have a right to your own opinion.

My so called 'rant' I only did because that guy asked me why I felt as I do about WiiU and in general the Smash and Kart franchises so I answered him and I guess I didn't feel a need to take it to a private message since he didn't ask in one.

He didn't ask and what he did post was in response to something you had already said.

[kai123]

We're talking about a message board about videogames, my friend. If you think that you've somehow been helped to grow as a person by reading threads like this, I don't know what to say.

Then why are you here if not to interact with others and get their opinions on things? There are people at the other end of these messages. Yes, you may grow tolerance to listen to people you completely disagree with. Which is what I am doing right now.

[Leo_A]

Then why are you here if not to interact with others and get their opinions on things? There are people at the other end of these messages.

Because I enjoy the discussion with like minded individuals that share my enthusiasm on this subject.

I'm not here to grow as an individual like you apparently think you are.

Yes, you may grow tolerance to listen to people you completely disagree with. Which is what I am doing right now.

Do you always like posting such grand statements that in actuality, say so little? You're the one with issues if you're so quick to pass judgement on someone that merely requested that someone respect the topic at hand.

Unlike you, I'm not out to censor anyone's opinions. What I did say was that there was a time and a place for everything and that every thread with any sort of connection with the Wii U, doesn't really require the same post about someone's distaste for Nintendo (Some of his criticism of which, I do share) and their low opinion of the console in question (Which definitely doesn't align with my particular opinions).

There are certainly threads where that's more than appropriate and I don't mind that coming up in the course of conversation, despite my opinions on the Wii U differing greatly from his. But I still fail to see why it has to appear with such regularity, seemingly at every opportunity.

But I'm not the moderator and I'm not out to censor him. I made a comment that obviously he disagrees with greatly and saw no merit in. So that's that...

[Tanooki]

Leo I know our opinions don't jive, but as I said I felt a reason to respond to a question posed to me, that's the only reason it came up and that's all. It would be weird if someone asks that in here to dig up a necro thread on MK8 to copy and paste a question and response hoping he caught it.

Zelda is partly speculation and not, sure they have a good year left, but you can also take what they've said and what they did on the 3DS game too in making it open and get a feel for it. As 3DS Zelda approached they said their future games would be open like that one to change the formula going forward unless it totally just bombed (which it didn't.) I like and dislike that 3DS game because it is open as I have no idea where to go so I bumble around unless I find a guide and I'm just not a fan of that so I really pick away slowly at that and still haven't finished it and it's tiny in walking distance to what they're claiming for the WiiU. That's why I drew the Skyrim like comparison as they're talking massive scale and open. Sure I could wait a year, but since they're building off of their concept of open on 3DS and going console size huge with the world I know it won't fit with my taste or lifestyle with the lack of time I can put on a console game anymore. I'd probably be more forgiving if I could play it on my laptop such as it is with a game like Diablo 3 which is huge too (or Guild Wars 2.) I like my Zelda games with a start, a set of dungeons to do in order, and a finish -- like the 2D stuff has been and Ocarina/Wind Waker too.

He didn't ask with a question mark. He said "No offense, but you seem to have a massive issue with the Wii U. Both Kart and Smash got amazing reviews and have sold very well, so I'm not so sure why you are so negative towards those two franchises." The why was in there asking why I was negative towards the system and two franchises so I answered, that's really it.

[Leo_A]

At the risk of being guilty of what I was critical of you yourself doing, the large world is something I find very appealing. I've always loved Zelda overworlds, exploring them, and gradually opening up access to new areas. Their de-emphasis of them in many Zelda releases in the 2000's has been a disappointment for me.

I like dungeons, but to me, they were almost a means to an end.

I'll grant you that the size of the world is a concern, but only a concern. A largely empty overworld or one that's lacking in variety definitely will be disappointing if it plays out that way. But it's much too soon to write this one off, in my opinion. I doubt anyone expects it before next September, with October or November likely being even more likely.

There's a lot of development time left and Zelda titles like Ocarina and Twilight Princess show just how much can change in a few months time.

[Tanooki]

True enough it's early, but even if it's not overkill, it's off my radar as I sold the hardware to a member of the site here a few days ago and they should have it in the mail tomorrow. I just don't like open world large scale games and the change they did on the 3DS was a huge turn off which sucked for me because the SNES Zelda it's directly tied to is my personal favorite of the 2D style and that didn't get me to get anywhere near finishing it. My love of the SNES game and a shred of hope I decide to try it again has let me keep it on the shelf to this point. I know the original Zelda was fairly open world, you in theory could do some stages definitely out of order, but due to the age/system it just never felt too slow and overwhelming to cause a sense of being lost as much as being an explorer. The same could be said of the side scroller sequel and the SNES game too, including Links Awakening on GB/C. I don't see the dungeons as a means to and end, I sought them for the challenge, fun and rewarding item it had. To more or less de-emphasize them so much that it's about just wandering around a huge open expanse with stuff here and there at a distance to do isn't for me.

They could decide in March it was a bad idea and go all skyward sword or wind waker on it since they were big hits, but I doubt it. I doubt really it will even happen in 2015. We know how they are, they announce a game, then give a rough expectation and then the Zelda stuff tends to get a couple of delays. I would not be surprised if it fell into 2016 unless they're in such a pinch they're forced to advance it forward cutting loose some of the design for expediency. Of course that could go the way the Wii did, port it to the next hardware, then delay launch it with the WiiU like TP did with GC/Wii.

[Leo_A]

[A Link Between Worlds] on the 3DS was a huge turn off which sucked for me because the SNES Zelda it's directly tied to is my personal favorite of the 2D style and that didn't get me to get anywhere near finishing it.

Unusual opinion for what seems to have been the best received Zelda in the 2000's. I think you're the first one that I've seen that was critical of it. I suspect that you were right to sell your Wii U based off of that, since it's hard to get a better received Nintendo release than that one.

I don't see the dungeons as a means to and end, I sought them for the challenge, fun and rewarding item it had.

Neither do I.

Rather, I was out to emphasize just how much I love overworld exploration in this franchise and why I'm intrigued by this large world that seems to be in the works, despite the potential pitfall of it feeling too empty if they don't do a good job at it.

To more or less de-emphasize them so much that it's about just wandering around a huge open expanse with stuff here and there at a distance to do isn't for me.

Nobody has said anything about Zelda U's dungeons yet. I really doubt that they're taking away any attention from them to instead focus on the overworld.

They could decide in March it was a bad idea and go all skyward sword or wind waker on it since they were big hits, but I doubt it.

Don't forget that your concern is just that, a concern. Any real issues remain to be seen.

That said, I'm not suggesting that there is any chance it will essentially be scrapped. Just that a lot of change is likely to still happen over the better part of the next year.

I doubt really it will even happen in 2015.

Doubt it since it's going to be the only real AAA major release in 2015, unless they have a real surprise in store. And that's extremely doubtful since I think that the closest we've came to one of those under a year before release was Wind Waker HD. Everything else that was even remotely a big deal was announced well over a year before release and sometimes years earlier (This upcoming Yoshi release was first shown off before launch, for instance).

And I don't see a remaster, however nice, as a really big deal that will placate fans most interested in major new Nintendo exclusives. So even if they bolster 2015 with one or two high profile HD remasters, no Zelda U is going to be a major problem for them if you're right.

I would not be surprised if it fell into 2016 unless they're in such a pinch they're forced to advance it forward cutting loose some of the design for expediency. Of course that could go the way the Wii did, port it to the next hardware, then delay launch it with the WiiU like TP did with GC/Wii.

I think they're fed up with releasing Zelda as a bookend to their consoles where it has little chance to be a system seller and is quickly forgotten about as new hardware launches. And 2016 is going to be pretty late in the game for the Wii U I imagine. So in light of all the evidence, I think we can count on a Fall 2015 release.

And while a simultaneous next gen release is a possibility if delayed past next year, it would all but require that they stick with this Power PC based foundation for the 4th generation in a row. If that doesn't happen, what was an easy task with Twilight Princess becomes a major job.

[ZP3]

To me, the Wii U has not been what I expected it to be; I'm not disappointed in it; but rather, see it in a different light than what I originally hoped it to be.

I think the general population (excluding Tanooki) of Wii U owners can agree that the system has had some great releases. 3d world was simply fantastic, Pikmin 3 was solid, Nintendo Land, for me, is still providing entertainment value; Super Mario Bros Wii U was a well-done platformer, as was Tropical Freeze; Wind Waker was a great remake of a fantastic Zelda, Wonderful 101 was a really interesting game, Hyrule Warriors was a fun romp, Monster Hunter 3 ultimate (didn't own) was said to be engrossing, and Mario Kart and Smash Bros have been the cherry on top: These two games are simply fantastic. I am sure I am missing a few games, but we must admit that the U has put out some great content. Nintendo's best ever? Probably not. But in an era of bloated shooters and 10 hour games, Nintendo has provided a solid alternative.

The best part? 2015 should bring some more great content, too. I am sure that I am not alone in saying that I am thoroughly looking forward to Star fox, Zelda, Xenoblade 2, Mario Maker, and splatoon. I am sure more will be announced and more will be released, but if you take the U for what it is (a solely first party console), it has proven to be a pretty fun little box.

[Leo_A]

To me, their greatest faults are on the business side. Take Pikmin 3 which you just mentioned for a simple piece of evidence. It saw great reviews, it's in a franchise that Nintendo quite clearly is attached to and wants to grow, and they just released a demo of it on the eShop just days ago.

Yet go and try to find it at retail or check prices at an online outlet like Amazon. Why is this title unavailable and not being reprinted? Why has the MSRP not gradually been lowered to continually capture sales, instead of just going out of print completely once those launch copies were sold off at launch day prices?

While Tanooki can see little of value there, all I can think of is what the situation would be if only the rest of Nintendo was as capable as their top development teams...

[Tanooki]

Well I know and totally understand why that 3DS game is well received. I'm still trying to like it in small doses, but I don't like just wandering around aimlessly in my limited time I have but I do not hate it as it can be fun. And the WiiU got sold because the only interesting games left appear to be that open world Zelda, Starfox(only one I consider a true loss), Xenoblade (which is so large I'd never get it as I couldn't come near finishing it), and that's I think it.

I don't think on zelda wii u they're going to de-emphasize the dungeons but they won't be the big focus they once were as I think the world itself on the whole will be and they'll just be a smaller part of it due to the wide expanse they're in. I don't think it will be scrapped, nor do I think it will be radically changed. I just think if history goes as it does with them delaying Zelda projects a couple times it may get scaled back a little to hit some ultimate deadline that probably will be impacted by the sales data of the WiiU and the need to pull in more sales. My brother seemed to think that in 2015 they may be doing a Mario Galaxy 3 since that series was far better received than their 'New' Mario line or even the 3D Land/World games. Perhaps that'll be thrown out there at E3 2015 and Zelda pushed back to drag out the clock further if it's real. I hope you're right they delay a Zelda game less than they usually do, but as we know, it's huge, so testing that and finishing it up will take a ton of time as Nintendo hasn't been one to ride the upgrade/bug patch train Sony and MS do.

I'm one of those pushing the idea of what you've seen as a possibility, the console/handheld in one device. Let's face it, outside of their own releases they fairly well blow at getting out up to date hardware and third parties to back it since the Gamecube period. Yet they get huge support even from their most critical of developers for their handhelds -- GBA and DS of all things even got GTA games. Since they can't compete well at home but do on the go, it would I think serve them well to make a bitchin $300 handheld which also has a TV dock and a controller (think Neo Geo-X) and go with it. They would be putting all their eggs in one basket instead of two, but they could focus far better that way on the market that hasn't betrayed them -- portables, while still giving the TV some use with a dock. It also would bolster their WiiU credo of off-tv play.

ZP3 I think it had a few great releases, but it has lost steam is all. New SMBU, Mario 3D World, Zelda WW, Res Evil Revelations, DKC TF, Rayman Legends, the physical release of Duck Tales, and a few others I enjoyed, but I ran out of steam with not having something to enjoy with it going forward. And yes, I don't care for smash or kart on the console side either. I'm sure a few more things will be announced, but if what my brother has learned is true that 80% or so of the known remaining releases for the system are public knowledge now, that's worrisome. It could just end up a nice box with 3 years of fun before it craters kind of like Dreamcast -- a good short ride.

[Leo_A]

My brother seemed to think that in 2015 they may be doing a Mario Galaxy 3 since that series was far better received than their 'New' Mario line or even the 3D Land/World games.

Actually, the New Super Mario Brothers line has always outsold the 3D Mario line. For instance, New Super Mario Wii outsold both Galaxies combined with many millions left over (28.65 million copies to 12.22 million for SMG for instance).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Super Mario Galaxy 3 someday. I just bet that it won't be on the Wii U. In the unlikely event it gets another Mario platformer past Mario Maker, I bet it's a Super Mario Galaxy HD collection or a direct follow-up to 3D World that recycles a lot of the assets.

I hope you're right they delay a Zelda game less than they usually do, but as we know, it's huge, so testing that and finishing it up will take a ton of time as Nintendo hasn't been one to ride the upgrade/bug patch train Sony and MS do.

Twilight Princess seemed to miss its original date mainly to reposition it as a Wii launch title and I think Skyward Sword lagged because they decided to implement Motion Plus support in the wake of Wii Sports Resort.

Hopefully this one makes it on time.

Yet they get huge support even from their most critical of developers for their handhelds -- GBA and DS of all things even got GTA games.

Not anymore though. 3rd party support has really dried up this generation on the 3DS. About the best that can be said about 3rd party support on the 3DS these days is that it's better off than the Wii U...

That's one reason why what you said is so key, since their handheld line as it stands also needs reinventing in the wake of the smartphone. The days where the handheld easily covers for weaknesses in their console market is now over.

Combining forces seems the obvious answer.

[Tanooki]

You're probably right about that with Mario and it is kind of a shame. Nintendo has turned it into something kind of like a Madden game of sorts, you make a game engine, then make a few games where you just slightly tweak the engine, bust out the cookie cutter and make some new stages. I'm not saying it's bad, but they don't really go crazy like they used to like the evolution of it on NES/SNES. I have no idea if he was right in what he heard or not, but I hope for people who have it they do make that sequel as Galaxy was awesome.

You're right about those Zeldas, but if you go back farther there were 'quality' and expansion delays with both the N64 titles, and I think the GC game got backed up too a bit. It's habit with them on that franchise as they always want to go back, do more, and get it right which is fine as rushing causes issues.

I know, I know all too well. The 3DS still gets the third party games, but it's nothing like it was the first couple of years at all. I know internally they've known of the New3DS for awhile, so it could be really a mix of shifting gears and also the tablet market kicking their ass too. It can not help having all those clip on Moga's(I have one) out there or the Nvidia shield either. If someone started making a phone that caught on where the thing slid on the back like an old keyboard phone (sorta like the PSP phone from Sony Ericsson) they'd be shit out of luck and right in the spot they are now with the WiiU. Trust me I've put a lot of thought into it and bounced it off my brother, it's something people I think they want to see Nintendo do. Their handheld line has and will remain king unless the floor drops out from under them. The console end by third parties is written off, but they like what they can do on a dedicated device still, and having them drop out (kind of) of consoles and do a combo high end handheld with a console dock for home gaming would set them apart and save their ass.

You know another thing I've considered was their old Yamauchi stance on, if the hardware fails, the IPs go down the toilet with it. Seeing how xenophobic the Japanese game industry is against the US (ie: xbox) I could see under the new leadership them branching if hardware did fail to being a Sony exclusive game maker albeit not second party while also finally supporting tablet gaming perhaps selling a controller(bluetooth) to attach to a tablet/phone to retain their 'Nintendo magic' feeling of gaming.

[davidbrit2]

So there's a newer trailer showing even more crazy features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GaYEGnu00g



Pretty obvious that this isn't going to just be a simple NES ROM hacking tool.

[kupomogli]

^The Mario Maker video is the same as the one in the op.

[davidbrit2]

^The Mario Maker video is the same as the one in the op.

The OP link goes to an old E3 2014 trailer, unless I'm missing something here.