It begins.... Video game grading

[Vectorman0]

If they really want to look legitimate, they shouldn't charge $400 for Simon's Quest!

EDIT: On second thought, maybe these shills are gauging the market right now. If nobody buys Simon's Quest for $400, they'll lower the price to $300. If nobody buys it for $300, they'll lower the price to $200, and so on and so forth until someone actually buys it. Then, they'll know just how much bidders are willing to spend on slabbed NES games.

The last one graded sold for $150; they know they are gouging and don't plan to do anything more honorable.

[Rob2600]

The last one graded sold for $150; they know they are gouging and don't plan to do anything more honorable.

I wrote that they're "gauging" the market, but you're right, they're "gouging," too!

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't even care about honorable or not. It's not particularly dishonorable to play the market. It's not dishonorable if someone won't sell his Final Fantasy VII for $30 despite there being millions of copies. The market says what it says.

What is the problem is that this isn't just playing the market. It's screwing with it with shill Ebayers and such.


The service price is a farce, you have to submit the fair market value for the games, and then you pay VGA based upon a tier structure built around fair market value of the game. The more ebay thinks my game is worth, the more I have to pay you to perform the same service on a game a fraction of its perceived value on a non-impartial, easily manipulated system?

And this takes the cake. They're trying to set up the market in a way so that their ratings can be the only measure of quality and then through that monopoly make their fortune by charging whatever the hell they want to actually give out the grades.

[LuxKiller65]

What if we all start offering them 1$ for all their games where it's possible to submit an offer? Like, hundreds of people offering 1$.

[TonyTheTiger]

If enough people are dedicated to that it might eventually show that there's no room for this kind of price gouging. But that's operating under the assumption that there's no jackass with too much money who will go around clicking the buy-it-now options. All it takes is for a few absurd buyers to spend $400 on a graded Castlevania II to put dollar signs in the eyes of everyone on Ebay who then make a mad rush to get everything they own graded. This does two things. One, it makes the grading company filthy rich. Two, it creates a situation where people can no longer buy a sealed game that isn't graded and likewise price inflated. Not to mention other less obvious problems it will cause.

I've said before that grading in general smells rotten to me. But this smells just that much worse because no good can come out of it. At least comic book grading makes some sense as you can't see the whole product with three photos. VGA's plan here is so obvious that Stevie Wonder could see it.

[CosmicMonkey]

So are they jut grading games or systems too?

They're certainly gonna need some bigger boxes for AES carts.

I'm waiting for the first 9.0+ Metal Slug AES to show up on eBay and see what ridiculous price it goes for.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'd like to know what standard they're using for deciding between an 85 and a 90. If a difference of 5 points means a difference of $100 then how about some transparency? If the difference really can't be discernible by the human eye then, hell, talk about arbitrary. "You know what makes this an 85? Because we say so."

[rbudrick]

Hmm, if every major collector posts here, and they are all universally not in favor of the system, doesn't that make the grading system automatically fail if the biggest collectors aren't going to use it?

Just my take on things. However, I am concerned...who the fuck fdid these guys consult when they did this? Musta been some folks we know for sure. SO, who's not fessing up? ;)

-Rob

[GrandAmChandler]

VGA JUST GOT SONNED!!!!!

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116049

-GAC-

[TonyTheTiger]

Hmm, if every major collector posts here, and they are all universally not in favor of the system, doesn't that make the grading system automatically fail if the biggest collectors aren't going to use it?

Just my take on things. However, I am concerned...who the fuck fdid these guys consult when they did this? Musta been some folks we know for sure. SO, who's not fessing up? ;)

-Rob

Not exactly because let's say there are 10 rich loons out there scouring Ebay and get taken by these shill auctions. All that has to happen is for word to spread that a graded Castlevania II among others sold for $400 on Kotaku or some place and all of a sudden you have every jackass with dollar signs in his eyes thinking they can get something similar if they get their games graded. So they submit their games for grading (making the VGA filthy rich by paying for the stupid service the VGA itself forced into the market) and then up on Ebay these games go. The reserve prices and buy it now prices will be stupidly high and what happens then is more people assume this is a legit price and buy into it. Not too long after it becomes almost automatic to submit the games for grading and now sealed games can't be found that aren't graded.

[Rob2600]

I've said before that grading in general smells rotten to me. But this smells just that much worse because no good can come out of it.

Actually, if you're patient, a lot of good will come out of it. If this video game grading thing actually takes off, it will only last five to ten years before the whole market collapses (just like with sports cards, comic books, and Beanie Babies).

At that point, all the dummies who spent thousands of dollars on sealed, slabbed video games will have a collection on their hands worth one twentieth of what they paid and will try to dump everything for the best offer they can get.

That means high-grade, sealed video games for dirt cheap...if you can sit tight and ride out the ridiculous grading fad.


let's say there are 10 rich loons out there scouring Ebay and get taken by these shill auctions.

I see your point, but realistically, how many "rich loons" are out there scouring eBay for old NES video games?

[Greg2600]

At that point, all the dummies who spent thousands of dollars on sealed, slabbed video games will have a collection on their hands worth one twentieth of what they paid and will try to dump everything for the best offer they can get.

That means high-grade, sealed video games for dirt cheap...if you can sit tight and ride out the ridiculous grading fad.


Or they take it all to their grave with them.

[TonyTheTiger]

I see your point, but realistically, how many "rich loons" are out there scouring eBay for old NES video games?

Probably at least 10 considering Ebay's gigantic constituency. You can find used underwear getting bids on that site.

[The 1 2 P]

Probably at least 10 considering Ebay's gigantic constituency. You can find used underwear getting bids on that site.

And thats just sad. Unless it's an actress's used panties:-D

[Icarus Moonsight]

I was going to eBay my used undies but, I've decided to get them graded first to maximize my returns. You send them to these guys in Japan and they score them by smell, flavor and texture. I'm hoping to hit a windfall with my burrito master set. :D

[Vectorman0]

I was going to eBay my used undies but, I've decided to get them graded first to maximize my returns. You send them to these guys in Japan and they score them by smell, flavor and texture. I'm hoping to hit a windfall with my burrito master set. :D

VAG will grade it for a much better price than the Japanese.

[IronBuddha]

It's funny though, this was exactly the reason why I got out of collecting baseball cards and now if this picks up I'll end up getting out of collecting video games.

[slip81]

I don't know, while it is a dumb idea (just like comic slabbing), even if it does become popular I doubt it will really hurt game collecting.

It'll probably end up taking a similar course to comic grading, in that, most people won't get their stuff slabbed and will continue to go on selling as usual. What'll probably end up happening is that people who knew that they had something worth money get it slabbed, like a sealed non gh FF VII or maybe just sealed games in general.

I say if people want to waste money to get their games slabbed and assigned an arbitrary grade and spend astronomical ammounts of money on said slabbed games, let em. Theres enought collectors and average guys dumping thier old games they founds in mom's garage who don't care about grading to go around. And I doubt we'd see slabbing effect non slabbed game prices.

Like I don't think a complete slabbed Chrono Trigger graded 95 that goes for $1000 on ebay will push up the price of non slabbed ones, or create a mad dash for everyone to get their CT carts graded. I mean, the CAG has been around for years and is really popular and that hasn't happened with comics.

[rbudrick]

Well, on the up side, at least some dick will have preserved originals that are better than any one else's in a few hundred years, even though we will all live in the Matrix and be Borgs by then.

-Rob

[TonyTheTiger]

And thats just sad. Unless it's an actress's used panties:-D

No. It's still sad. And pretty nasty.

[The 1 2 P]

No. It's still sad. And pretty nasty.

So you wouldn't want to bid on Jessica Alba's, Natalie Portmans's or Heidi Klum's used panties?

[Krook]

Hell no!

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, on the up side, at least some dick will have preserved originals that are better than any one else's
We already covered that; the various materials in games mean that you need to treat them separately. This is true even in paintings, in fact.

By the way, I'm feeling this is inevitable - dumbies with cash are going to ruin the market, heh.

[Adol]

Who will be the first to complete a Sealed "10.0 Rated" NES Archive?

What a life goal!

I think bronty can. :)
At least that's the first name that comes to my mind.

[Ed Oscuro]

What a life goal? What a waste of time.

Come on folks, my Soldier Blade topic needs loving, and yall need to play more games instead of helping advertise for these grading scumbags.

Just my $0.02 ;)

[98PaceCar]

Ninja edit.. Removed comment I shouldn't have made..

[mickoz]

I started collecting new/sealed games probably back in 1998-1999 by buying some cheap one (one of the reason is probably that I am "used" to collect [I got the gotta catch 'em all sickness], and I find it cool that a old things, especially NES, that most people were opening, at least me, did stand there unopened! -- of course there is other factor like the memories and other that can be similar as collecting sport cards: they are cool looking at like art, etc.). I also bought non-sealed games of course.

What I liked about videogames is that I was making my own price without relying much on a guide or what (because price guides can influence you unfortunately and make you focus more on price than the item). But still, there was people doing price list, and there is DP with rarity/price database, etc.

When I started back buying other stuff like sport cards, I also stopped looking at price guide.

You just pay what you think it worth. That can be valid about anything (unless you have "no choice").

You can find it dumb, you can dislike collecting sealed games, etc. like you can think some TV show is worthless of your time. Just don't watch! ;-)

But like a lot of people say, this was inevitable. There was price guides, then the grading, then etc. --- it is no different than collecting something else, it is still collecting!

Of course, if that make a hobby you like less cool to you, that would frustrate you. But if you put a little effort you can see "positive" in grading (e.g. authentication of the item, objective 3rd party grade, etc.) --- but of course in reality there is a bit of subjectivity like in sport cards grading or any other collecting hobby. It won't be the same grader, with the same eyes and maybe not the same criteria (if that is the case, then they have to at least define what they grade).

But is it the devil to grade games, no. There is nothing wrong with it.

Really nice looking games are already fetching more than the ones with bumped corners, etc.

But then without grading Stadium Events did get from 500, to 700 and now sometime sale for 1000$+ (I don't really look anymore, but it makes you regret to not have started with the highest priced item back then, but that is life!). I of course regret to have refused some sealed NES games deal back then or not have been "quicker" as I see the price jump.

Of course, there will be people that look for "VGA 100" and pay top dollars for these games (even if it is a Mario/DH loose), especially if it represents only 0.01% of the graded one... then they create a rarity.

Now I am talking about too much thing... but it surprises me how some people look "really mad" at this. ;-) [ok, it doesn't "surprise" me, but it doesn't sound right, even if you dislike it, it is nothing wrong]

Maybe it won't even get popular in our hobby. This is what we will see in the following years!

[TonyTheTiger]

Now I am talking about too much thing... but it surprises me how some people look "really mad" at this. ;-) [ok, it doesn't "surprise" me, but it doesn't sound right, even if you dislike it, it is nothing wrong]

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with pyramid schemes either. The point is, this is essentially a scam. You can't really see what's inside the box so how does that get graded? We've been through this. As much as I dislike the arbitrary nature of grading, I can at least admit that it serves some purpose as far as comic books go. But all those benefits are non-existent with video games because of the way they're packaged. This is clearly a process that will do nothing but artificially inflate second market prices and also, depending on how big this gets and how that affects speculation, could severely hurt smaller publishers.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with pyramid schemes either. The point is, this is essentially a scam. You can't really see what's inside the box so how does that get graded? We've been through this. As much as I dislike the arbitrary nature of grading, I can at least admit that it serves some purpose as far as comic books go. But all those benefits are non-existent with video games because of the way they're packaged. This is clearly a process that will do nothing but artificially inflate second market prices and also, depending on how big this gets and how that affects speculation, could severely hurt smaller publishers.

That is why they need to rename it a "Video Game Box" grading service. Especially if you look at the service offered by sealedgameheaven.com. They place more of an emphasis on whether or not the plastic wrap is perfect than they place on whether or not the disc is loose rattling around inside the box. I guess they figure that if you are not going to open it, it doesn't matter what the disc looks like. If anyone could ever perfect a reseal, they would be screwed.

JY

[modest9797]

Screw buying graded games. I WANT TO PLAYYYYY THEM!

[Icarus Moonsight]

Here here. The SLAB is a LIE!

[LuxKiller65]

Please... I've had enough. Really... stop this madness.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Castlevania-II-NES-Game-Factory-Sealed-CIB-VGA-90-Mint_W0QQitemZ220242822582QQihZ012QQcategoryZ13997 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And last month I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CASTLEVANIA-II-2-VGA-90-1988-NINTENDO-NES-SEALED_W0QQitemZ130217041626QQihZ003QQcategoryZ620 53QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:bawling:

Need hug...

[Rob2600]

Please... I've had enough. Really... stop this madness.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Castlevania-II-NES-Game-Factory-Sealed-CIB-VGA-90-Mint_W0QQitemZ220242822582QQihZ012QQcategoryZ13997 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And last month I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CASTLEVANIA-II-2-VGA-90-1988-NINTENDO-NES-SEALED_W0QQitemZ130217041626QQihZ003QQcategoryZ620 53QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:bawling:

Need hug...

Wow. $325 for Simon's Quest is ridiculous enough, but this new seller is asking $470! What is going on? These prices are laughable.

The seller from last month has a bunch more graded games for sale:

bighedkingpin - graded video games for sale on eBay (http://video-games.search.ebay.com/_Video-Games_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ1249QQsassZbighedkingp in)

[Ed Oscuro]

What is going on?
ice-bane trying to make a quick turnaround on their investment, that's what

I almost said I hoped a sewer line exploded next to their house but then I remembered the game is a Castlevania.

[TonyTheTiger]

I still think there's shill bidding going on. Get 20 people to make it seem like this is actually worth it and then have them flip the games and shill those bids as well.

[Rob2600]

I still think there's shill bidding going on. Get 20 people to make it seem like this is actually worth it and then have them flip the games and shill those bids as well.

I agree. I almost posted that myself.

By the way, I just read that as of May 2008, eBay no longer allows sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers. Yet another reason I rarely use eBay anymore.

[Ed Oscuro]

By the way, I just read that as of May 2008, eBay no longer allows sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers. Yet another reason I rarely use eBay anymore.
It'll take a long time (if it ever happens) for the attitudes of users (most of whom don't know of the change) to shift so that seeing the rare neg from a disgruntled buyer won't have such an impact as it did before.

Sellers can - as far as I know - still leave responses to negatives, at least.

[LuxKiller65]

Looks like eBay wants to kill itself. I've heard of some people who used to buy there a lot and are now slowly stopping. I'm almost with them now: sellers stealed me over 250$ last year - items I paid and either never received or received in pitiful condition.

Getting back to the topic... Would they really waste their time bidding on their own crappy graded games just for the purpose of "convincing more and more people that their games are worth the price"? That's a mafia. Where are they located?

[TonyTheTiger]

Getting back to the topic... Would they really waste their time bidding on their own crappy graded games just for the purpose of "convincing more and more people that their games are worth the price"? That's a mafia. Where are they located?

Well if they aren't then there are some really really dumb people out there with too much money on their hands.

[Ed Oscuro]

Getting back to the topic... Would they really waste their time bidding on their own crappy graded games just for the purpose of "convincing more and more people that their games are worth the price"?
Actually, that's not as crazy as you might think. Certainly it's a straightforward way of building up an "aura of inevitability" (heh) about the whole process.

I used this example a year ago - a couple guys found out about some furniture maker from the early 20th century and thought he was a good artisan. Instead of yelling about the stuff to their friends and colleagues they instead went around and bought all they could find, probably spending $300,000 in the process.

When they were fairly confident they had a near-monopoly on the guy's stuff, they started releasing information about it, promoting it, making a big deal...and since the furniture was desirable after all they could start auctioning things off at a high premium.

Now, back to the situation at hand: Of course sealed NES games are nothing new at all, but they're trying to sell a service. eBay makes it relatively easy to convince people that something's worth money just because it's (apparently) selling on eBay for that price. All the seller pays is a commission to eBay; if they set up a fake Money Transfer payment to their fake friend then they don't have to send any money at all.

But it must be remembered that eBay doesn't have a simple fix available to stop the problem; many subcommunities of sellers and buyers exist with people out there only buying sporadically and buying from the same small group of sellers when they do. So what looks like shill bidding often isn't.

[LuxKiller65]

Thanks for the explanations!

Gotta go think hard about your posts now, before posting a reply!

The furniture example was quite funny though! Did they manage to earn more than they spent in the end? Do you have a link to the story?

:cheers:

[Cobra Commander]

and I find it cool that a old things, especially NES, that most people were opening, at least me, did stand there unopened!

What a horrible thing to say. I'm the biggest collector I know in real life. Among all my friends, I'm the guy they go to when they find something. I'm the biggest game nerd there is around here. I have 3 sealed games: Perfect Dark for N64, D2 for Dreamcast, and Final Fantasy IX for PS1. They only reason I haven't opened 2 of them is because my plate is full of games to play already. I'll sell Final Fantasy IX one day because some one will pay a crapload for it one day.

Having said that, I would NEVER buy a sealed game like that. EVER. I want to take those game, open all of them, and throw the plastic away.

[xfrumx]

What a horrible thing to say. I'm the biggest collector I know in real life. Among all my friends, I'm the guy they go to when they find something. I'm the biggest game nerd there is around here. I have 3 sealed games: Perfect Dark for N64, D2 for Dreamcast, and Final Fantasy IX for PS1. They only reason I haven't opened 2 of them is because my plate is full of games to play already. I'll sell Final Fantasy IX one day because some one will pay a crapload for it one day.

Having said that, I would NEVER buy a sealed game like that. EVER. I want to take those game, open all of them, and throw the plastic away.

Wanna sell D2 (I will probably just open it to play!) also..........

Someone should do some legit looking re-seals on some great looking boxed games to see what they say!

[alexkidd2000]

Castlevania II NES Game Factory Sealed CIB VGA 90 Mint
Seller: ice-bane( 70Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Buy It Now price: US $470.00
Time left: 7 days

ice-bane is considering your offer Jun-07-08 15:41:44 PDT
Your offer price: US $1.50
Offer expires in: 47 hours 59 mins
Your terms: --

[TonyTheTiger]

Huh?! Things just got weirder.

[Rogue]

Let's ignore all this thing about grading.

This is what VGA means:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/SVGA_port.jpg/300px-SVGA_port.jpg

More info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

And ban the opportunism... u.u

[Ed Oscuro]

VGA droolz, HDMI rulez

now if only I can get my monitor and 8800 GTS to work together with it...sigh

[Lostdwarf]

ok start the banter for this one but the ONLY and ONLY time i would EVER EVER pay for a graded game would be for LOZ as that to me is the holy grail. Sure there's a million other games out there and why you ask LOZ well one word LEGEND and thats all i need to say, so rag on me yell at me I would buy a graded zelda.

[Superman]

Castlevania II NES Game Factory Sealed CIB VGA 90 Mint
Seller: ice-bane( 70Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Buy It Now price: US $470.00
Time left: 7 days

ice-bane is considering your offer Jun-07-08 15:41:44 PDT
Your offer price: US $1.50
Offer expires in: 47 hours 59 mins
Your terms: --

Nice Move!

[Ed Oscuro]

ok start the banter for this one but the ONLY and ONLY time i would EVER EVER pay for a graded game would be for LOZ as that to me is the holy grail. Sure there's a million other games out there and why you ask LOZ well one word LEGEND and thats all i need to say, so rag on me yell at me I would buy a graded zelda.
Zelda = Nintendo.
VGA = some schmucks.

The difference could save you a lot of money!

Zelda will still be Zelda regardless of whether some unknown third party puts it in a plastic slab. The only value they add is (presumably) related to investment collecting, and up to this time I've seen them making no attempt to vet themselves with the general collector community.

Besides, if you feel the need to get something old and sealed that says "ZELDA" on it, get a copy of the Famicom Disk System game...you can actually find them pretty cheaply if you know where to look (cheap = less than $40, I believe).

[PapaStu]

http://www.gamesniped.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

I found this interesting... Seems like they are only putting grade markers on the front of the cases for the NES/2600 stuff. I'm not sure where the other games 'id lables' are.

[dcx516]

I thought about this a few years ago and thought to myself "what a good idea". Its actually fucking retarded. I look online the other day and see some douchebags that grade action figures grading video games. Who the fuck do these guys think they are. Like they are the authority in grading games. They are the end all be all. These guys are the assholes that are going to drive the fucking prices down. Boycott these fucks. Dont support their business.

[SegaAges]

I thought about this a few years ago and thought to myself "what a good idea". Its actually fucking retarded. I look online the other day and see some douchebags that grade action figures grading video games. Who the fuck do these guys think they are. Like they are the authority in grading games. They are the end all be all. These guys are the assholes that are going to drive the fucking prices down. Boycott these fucks. Dont support their business.

Rare or not, I am all for prices going down on everything. Maybe it is only me, but for me, it is not about the money.

If it is all about making money for you, than that is you. I say let them drop the prices down

[dcx516]

Rare or not, I am all for prices going down on everything. Maybe it is only me, but for me, it is not about the money.

If it is all about making money for you, than that is you. I say let them drop the prices down

I hear ya, but if you paid a lot for a game, you want that price to either stay the same or go up. I would rather the value of a game go up because it's demand is higher, not because some asshole graded it.

[Virtualogik]

Anyway, are their services really a success? They're at it since at least a year I think and we practically don't see any of their auctions up...

I don't know what kind of retarded move it was to call themselves "VGA" for Video game collector authority or whatever when a good part of your "reputation" or publicity is to be made on a well known "auction site" like your AFA counterpart...

VGA is kind of a popular word on eBay... even in the videogame section!... so it's impossible to search for their graded items.. thus.. nobody is really interested in using their services...

No really... what a nice marketing move to call themselves VGA... I think we should considers ourself lucky that they are this stupid... and a year later, it seems they still didn't get it...

[TonyTheTiger]

Grading of video games is as much of a scam as grading of anything else.

Imagine you have a commodity. Now someone springs up an organization that provides a "service" to grade that commodity (and thus help determine its value). Before long, anyone who owns one of these commodities has no choice but to get his graded (paying the associated fees to the organization, of course) because enough people are convinced that grading is important and thus without a grade the value on the market is lower.

Now, in some cases I have less of a problem with the concept. Comic books, for instance. Because you can't see the entirety of the comic (there are a lot of pages in there) having a numerical guide can help you trust that the seller isn't trying to pawn off a fabulous looking cover with a bunch of torn, coffee stained pages inside.

But the idea as a whole still rubs me the wrong way because of how arbitrary is all is. A perfectly mint commodity that isn't graded is valued less than an inferior copy that is. That screams "idiocy" to me.

And Ebay makes it a bit worse because I'm certain these VGA guys are using shill buyers and sellers in an attempt to convince the public that their 85% Super Mario Bros. 3 is really worth $400. Then, of course, they got the market by the balls because anyone with a minty copy of Mario 3 will have no choice but to pay the grading fee in order to sell it for that much.

[Kid Dracula]

Couldn't agree more Tony. There also seems to be some discrepancy with the grades they are giving out. I've seen 85's that 'should' be 70's. Silliest thing ever.

[TonyTheTiger]

Couldn't agree more Tony. There also seems to be some discrepancy with the grades they are giving out. I've seen 85's that 'should' be 70's. Silliest thing ever.

I remember someone telling me about how high rolling coin collectors buy graded coins, break open the casing, and resubmit them in an attempt at scoring a higher grade to make an instant profit. I know jack about coins but I do know that they don't improve in quality over time so if this does happen then that just adds more evidence to how arbitrary it all is.

Give me a nice looking copy of anything and I'll slap an 80 on it. Now give me something a little worse looking and I'll slap a 75 on it. Now give me a fantastic looking copy and I'll put a nice 95 on there. Hey, look, I can do this too! Anyone want to pay me $20 to tell you how nice your nice copy of something is?

[dcx516]

thats how it started with comic books. some idiots decided they were going to be the authority in grading comics now look at it, people are buying comics and grading them and selling them on ebay for ridiculous amounts of money. my father in law is a very big collector of comics, any comic he buys according to him has to be graded or else it isnt worth anything. regardless of whether or not it is graded it should still be worth something.

[Ze_ro]

Video games are NOT a good investment, and never have been. If you're worried about losing some imaginary money because of fluctuations in the market, then I suggest you find a better use for your money.

--Zero

[TonyTheTiger]

The sad truth is that nobody trusts their own judgment. I doubt these "professionals" have any real skill or machinery that any layperson can't obtain. They put a grade on something and say "You gonna believe us or your lying eyes?" It doesn't take a genius to look at a game box and see if it's scuffed, torn, creased, crushed, etc. If it's not something you'd want to display then don't buy it. If it is something you'd want to display then go for it. You don't need some third party to tell you how much you want that copy. If you do this with anything else it just shows how silly it all is. I'll open a crappy restaurant and stick a Zagat flyer in my window. If you don't think my food is good, well, there's something wrong with you. Likewise, if you see a roach in your food I'll just point at my "Satisfactory" notice from the health inspector. You must not have seen what you think you did.

[megasdkirby]

Who the fuck do these guys think they are. Like they are the authority in grading games.

Unfortunately, it's same ideal to who gives what right or authority to place VALUES on video games.

People do as basis for comparison, but truth be told, no one has any say on what value a game has...that is solely determined by each individual person.

[dcx516]

Video games are NOT a good investment, and never have been. If you're worried about losing some imaginary money because of fluctuations in the market, then I suggest you find a better use for your money.

--Zero

there is no good way to invest money, especially during the times we live in. but i would never consider video games as monetary investment. im just pissed that people are profiting off of something they now nothing about.

[98PaceCar]

Unfortunately, it's same ideal to who gives what right or authority to place VALUES on video games.

People do as basis for comparison, but truth be told, no one has any say on what value a game has...that is solely determined by each individual person.

Assigning values can have some basis in market research though. It's entirely possible to come up with a reasonable estimate of what a game should sell for by watching ebay, chuckwagon, forum sales, etc. That's not to say that everybody will pay or charge what any guide says, but it can be a good starting place. If nothing else, it can show what the market will bear and set a reasonable expectation for a buyer as to what it may cost.

Grading on the other hand, that is purely subjective as has been proven time and time again in comics and coins. Catch a grader on a bad day and your 90 grade becomes a 70 and you'll never know why.

[megasdkirby]

True, one can make estimates based on how much games have gone in the past, with the exception of the "desperate buyer".

But before Ebay, CtC, and stores that dealt with video games in detail...how can anyone come up with a price for a game? For example, I see a game and because it's not easy to find, I say "I say this game costs $100". There is no actual basis for it back then, though now I would understand.

I agree that grading is stupid. Still, if it makes them happy, let them be. :)

Though the grading thing reminds me of the "Most Popular" highschool list.

[TonyTheTiger]

Grading on the other hand, that is purely subjective as has been proven time and time again in comics and coins. Catch a grader on a bad day and your 90 grade becomes a 70 and you'll never know why.

And that's an even bigger problem. There's no accountability because there's no quality control. The standards are too abstract for there to be any quality control.


True, one can make estimates based on how much games have gone in the past, with the exception of the "desperate buyer".

But before Ebay, CtC, and stores that dealt with video games in detail...how can anyone come up with a price for a game? For example, I see a game and because it's not easy to find, I say "I say this game costs $100". There is no actual basis for it back then, though now I would understand.

Well you could always judge based on your own experience if you didn't have Ebay. If you notice your $100 copy of Mario 3 is collecting dust on the shelf you'll probably conclude that's higher than the market will sustain. If two people negotiate a price both can live with then that's great. The problem with grading is that it's a third party that tries to control those negotiations from afar with the sole purpose of making a mint on all the grading fees they take in for doing something that these buyers and sellers could do just fine themselves. They feign authority with the hope that one of the parties will say "Wait, before I buy/sell this I want to know from experts how much it's worth." The punchline is that the experts are only that because they put on a nice face and tell you they are. I feel like the only reason they're respected at all is because they were the first to get there.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

as mentioned before, if you're buying video games based on some possible future value, then you're doing it wrong.*

play the game and enjoy it. if the price goes down, more people can afford to enjoy it.

*unless you have a store. in that case, caveat emptor.

[Bojay1997]

I suppose I was a little concerned about this when VGA started up a year or so ago, but generally I think most collectors have avoided using their service simply because it's expensive and arbitrary. In addition, as I pointed out at the time, all they are grading is the outside box and seal. They have no idea what's inside or if the game is working or not. Essentially, they are a box grading service which is much less than what gets graded when someone submits a comic, coin, action figure or sports card to a service where they can technically grade the whole item. My bigger fear is the inflation that's happening with sealed stuff on Ebay in general which is out of all proportion to rarity or even demand in most cases. There are also a lot of people now buying stuff on Ebay and immediately relisting it for double the price. Sure, nobody buys it, but it takes it out of the natural market circulation that keeps prices stable. Of course, at this point I have most of what I want collection-wise and the stuff I don't have I typically resort to non-Ebay sources, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[Chainclaw]

This is going to be a long post because there is nothing on TV and I'm eating dinner.

It's obvious why the demand exists in any sort of collectible market. When people are paying thousands of dollars for an item that can be easily counterfeited, or the quality of the item can be easily lied about, a authoritative, impartial third party seems like a fantastic idea.

But in practice it can only make things worse, especially with video games. The internet is covered with thousands of reasons why collectible grading systems are flawed, so there is no reason to get into the specifics here.

Grading just seems like an easy shortcut when collecting, but really it's all up to the buyer. If you're a true collector of anything, you owe it to yourself to do the research, ask the seller the questions, and make as informed of a purchasing decision as you can, and you don't need anyone to grade your purchases.

I'll just spell it out as follows. There really aren't that many people buying older video games. Between emulation, ports, re-releases, and services like the virtual console, there really aren't a whole lot of people who buy older games.

Hardcore collector: You owe it to yourself to do the legwork on a purchase. Otherwise you're just a moron who buys things because they are "valuable" and "rare".

Dabbling collector: You owe it to yourself to do the research you aren't getting ripped off on the more expensive purchases.

Occasional purpose for quick nostalgia: You're going to overpay on the item because you want it now, and you want the original, but to you, you aren't buying the game, you're paying what you want to on nostalgia itself. Some dude just happens to make more money than he should off of it. Due to the fact that emulation is, for most people, better than the original, the people who end up making purchases of old games off of quick nostalgia will always a much smaller number than those who pick up Activision Anthology and call it a day.

Moron who buys things because they are "valuable" and "rare". Just because you spent $500 on it, and tell your friends it's a "hard to find, rare vintage game", it's still Combat, and you'll have a tough time reselling at that price, unless you find another moron.

Investor: Video games are, for the most part, a terrible investment. There are much better, more secure ways to make money faster. If you're the guy who gets really upset when that game you spent so much on gets re-released on the newest system at half the price, killing the value of the original, go pick a new investment strategy where this kind of stuff is less likely to happen. You can still buy games, but not as an investment.

Collector, looking to just collect something as a hobby: These are the guys who help drive up the demand for services like this in other hobbies, and don't seem to understand that a huge part of why people collect games is because they can play them (not that I... err those people ever actually get around to it). These people are different than the investors because they don't track the value of their collection as fanatically, and often end up making oddly priced Craigslist posts when they eventually need to sell some things off.

Guy looking to make some money, or just a quick buck: These are the kind of guys who buy large lots off of Craigslist, and then resell them piecemeal. A lot of people complain about these guys, but they really are the oil that keeps the collecting machinery going. If you're going to run your own business, why not sell something fun?

Guy looking to outright scam others: Usually won't fool a hardcore collector, but might make ten thousand dollars off of a moron, selling him a converted Kizuna Encounter.

Very few people end up benefiting from a grading system for collecting video games in any condition, and if you are talking sealed games specifically, the market is just so small, and the system is too flawed.

Anyways, don't assume due to the length of this post I'm some super gung-ho collector who lives and dies by games not getting graded or anything. I don't like grading systems obviously, but the post length is due to there being nothing on TV, and I can talk for hours on the most marginal subjects.

[super nes]

Occasional purpose for quick nostalgia: You're going to overpay on the item because you want it now, and you want the original, but to you, you aren't buying the game, you're paying what you want to on nostalgia itself. Some dude just happens to make more money than he should off of it. Due to the fact that emulation is, for most people, better than the original, the people who end up making purchases of old games off of quick nostalgia will always a much smaller number than those who pick up Activision Anthology and call it a day.

Moron who buys things because they are "valuable" and "rare". Just because you spent $500 on it, and tell your friends it's a "hard to find, rare vintage game", it's still Combat, and you'll have a tough time reselling at that price, unless you find another moron..

Well most people buy it for that reason but that doesnt mean there looking to resell it. I just bought a copy of Dracula X and i plan on keeping it even though i dont own a pc engine or a turbo duo.

[Octopod]

First they started slabbing comics. Then people started collecting sealed video games. I knew slabbed/graded video games was the next step. Stupid as hell.

[swlovinist]

two words: epic fail

[dcx516]

this is an example of what im talking about. this guy has more items, just like it
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200282730063&_trksid=p2761.l1259

[Chainclaw]

Well most people buy it for that reason but that doesnt mean there looking to resell it. I just bought a copy of Dracula X and i plan on keeping it even though i dont own a pc engine or a turbo duo.

If you're posting on Digit Press, you're at least a dabbling collector, and if you were formerly an overpaying moron, you're probably well on your way to fixing that. Also, I was talking years down the line with the nostalgia purchases. If you find your copy of Dracula X somewhere ten years from now, you're either still a collector of some kind, or might seriously think about selling it off.

[Gameguy]

Grading on the other hand, that is purely subjective as has been proven time and time again in comics and coins. Catch a grader on a bad day and your 90 grade becomes a 70 and you'll never know why.
It's because the grader accidentally damages the item while evaluating it. ROFL



I don't feel there's anything wrong with collecting sealed games, it's paying extreme amounts for them that I find unbelievable.

To me, a sealed NES game should be worth about $30-$50 unless it's an actual rarity(then obviously more expensive). I've come across some sealed games over the years but I've never paid all that much for them. They're cool to have in a collection because they're something different that most other people wouldn't have(at least in that condition). It's kind of the same reason why people like to have rare games in their collection or want a complete collection, I don't get why people collect games that aren't good(if it's rare and good then it's cool to have).