Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

[SparTonberry]

My point stands, if people just want to play this game now and well into the conceivable future, there is a lower cost and unlimited option available to them. If they want a physical copy, LRG is available to them with minimal effort.

So, it's a collectible, and 20 years later when developer-supported means of obtaining the games have probably dropped off, we're back to where we are now. Pay the 3+ figure collector price or else SORRY SOME OF US AREN'T WELL-OFF ENOUGH TO DO THAT hope piracy is an option.
(I want my games legit as much as possible but hell if I was going to pay a flipper $200, loose, for Surprise at Dinosaur Peak in roughly 2009, let alone $1000 or whatever now.
Say the game was originally $49.99 in 1994, even in 2009 that was nearly 3x the original MSRP (inflation adjusted to about $72). I don't think anyone but someone primarily concerned on the resale value would say that's a fair price to play the thing.)

[lendelin]

These are the completed ebay-listings of Night Trap three hours after the sale started and two hours and 58 minutes after the sale ended:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?rmvSB=true&_from=R40&_nkw=night+trap+ps4&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=53407&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50


What a terrible, completely unnecessary salesmodel! Everyone with a minimum of common sense saw this coming when 'Limited Run Games' was founded. The owners factored this in from the beginning hyping their games as 'future rarest releases on the PS4' and put pressure on gamers and collectors by referring to ebay scalpers. These ebay prices are NOT an unintended and unfortunate by-product of the demand for these games, they are the direct and desired result of the salesmodel.

85% (!!) of the entire published Limited Run games (not counting the recent ones of the last couple of weeks) are sold on ebay with a profit margin of 40% to 600% over retail price. They are the intended paradise of ebay scalpers.

Just a reality check for those who adamanty defend the LR- salesmodel like they would work as PR-spokespersons for this company. For a long time these facts, the ebay prices, were denied and belittled, so were the small sales-windows, and the nonsense-level of the justifications of this salesmodel are up the roof.

Other small publishers which are in the same growing niche market, with the same organizational structures, with very similar products and the same target audience as Limited Run can make a profit with normal salesmethods benefitting gamers and collectors! Why can't Limited Run? Why can't these two self-proclaimed gamers and collectors sell their games like other small publishers and give up selling games in a way which is disadvantegous for gamers and collectors in every aspect? Might greed associated with mimimizing risk for the company at the cost of gamers be the answer?

I admit, however, that LR was right and honest in this regard: "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"

...or they might regret this slip in their email in the meantime. (?)

Now the adamant defenders of this terrible salesmodel claim that they were always aware of how and why Limited Run sells their games this way. Why then did they deny and belittle the consequences of this salesmodel for a long time and ignored the fact that other smaller publishers which sell indie-games on physical discs do very well?

[Aussie2B]

I have faith that emulation and digital distribution is only going to get better. PSN has existed for over a decade now, and people who bought, say, digital PSP games back when that handheld was alive still have them tied to their accounts and can download them for play on Vita now. So while games occasionally get pulled from the marketplace (and sometime added back later), I think most are just going to pass from generation to generation, so people can keep playing their digital games on their older platforms or put them on newer platforms too. So even though I have a strong preference for physical releases, that preference isn't motivated by fear of digital games being lost.

There are always going to be physical releases that are rare and/or in high demand in every generation that will then get very expensive. No way to prevent that, not unless only AAA games get physical print runs, in massive quantities. There are definitely some older games that I accept I'll probably never own because I refuse to pay the going rate. I'll settle for an official digital release if available (that's how I bought Tron Bonne and Dynastic Hero in English, and I'll probably get Earthbound that way eventually too), and if there is no way to officially buy a game digitally and show my support to the developer/publisher, then I have no qualms about turning to emulation. It's not like a publisher is going to make any money if I go on eBay right now and buy some expensive retro game.

[megasdkirby]

I have faith that emulation and digital distribution is only going to get better. PSN has existed for over a decade now, and people who bought, say, digital PSP games back when that handheld was alive still have them tied to their accounts and can download them for play on Vita now. So while games occasionally get pulled from the marketplace (and sometime added back later), I think most are just going to pass from generation to generation, so people can keep playing their digital games on their older platforms or put them on newer platforms too. So even though I have a strong preference for physical releases, that preference isn't motivated by fear of digital games being lost.



I love that you can play PSP games on the Vita, however, you can't play PS3 games on anything other than a PS3. If Sony would release an emulator on the PS3 to play PSN PS3 games, that would be excellent. Also, you can backup Vita and PS4 PSN games on a PC or HDD, but you can't do that on the PS3. So unless someone finds a way to extract the executable AND play it on a PC or another console, PS3 PSN games will just die with the PS3. And that would suck real bad.

[kupomogli]

I didn't even bother trying to get Night Trap. I mean sure, I could buy the game then resell it for $75 in profit for an hours worth of workk, but that's not me, I won't buy a game just to resell it. That one copy either went to a reseller or someone who would have missed it otherwise.

[Bojay1997]

These are the completed ebay-listings of Night Trap three hours after the sale started and two hours and 58 minutes after the sale ended:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?rmvSB=true&_from=R40&_nkw=night+trap+ps4&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=53407&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50


What a terrible, completely unnecessary salesmodel! Everyone with a minimum of common sense saw this coming when 'Limited Run Games' was founded. The owners factored this in from the beginning hyping their games as 'future rarest releases on the PS4' and put pressure on gamers and collectors by referring to ebay scalpers. These ebay prices are NOT an unintended and unfortunate by-product of the demand for these games, they are the direct and desired result of the salesmodel.

85% (!!) of the entire published Limited Run games (not counting the recent ones of the last couple of weeks) are sold on ebay with a profit margin of 40% to 600% over retail price. They are the intended paradise of ebay scalpers.

Just a reality check for those who adamanty defend the LR- salesmodel like they would work as PR-spokespersons for this company. For a long time these facts, the ebay prices, were denied and belittled, so were the small sales-windows, and the nonsense-level of the justifications of this salesmodel are up the roof.

Other small publishers which are in the same growing niche market, with the same organizational structures, with very similar products and the same target audience as Limited Run can make a profit with normal salesmethods benefitting gamers and collectors! Why can't Limited Run? Why can't these two self-proclaimed gamers and collectors sell their games like other small publishers and give up selling games in a way which is disadvantegous for gamers and collectors in every aspect? Might greed associated with mimimizing risk for the company at the cost of gamers be the answer?

I admit, however, that LR was right and honest in this regard: "The standard version of the game sold out several weeks ago and is already fetching several times the original retail price on secondary markets. (...) - head over to our site now and grab a copy!"

...or they might regret this slip in their email in the meantime. (?)

Now the adamant defenders of this terrible salesmodel claim that they were always aware of how and why Limited Run sells their games this way. Why then did they deny and belittle the consequences of this salesmodel for a long time and ignored the fact that other smaller publishers which sell indie-games on physical discs do very well?

Have you ever personally tried to get a business loan with no collateral? Do you know how much capital it takes to start a retail publishing operation? I'm guessing you've never successfully done much of anything in your life. Well, except maybe to keep repeating the same worthless arguments about why someone else should run their business the way you think they should. Please provide us with proof that any of the indie games publishers selling PS4 games are "doing very well". While you're at it, please explain why Soedesco, THQ Nordic and the others (with the notable exception of Badlands Games) aren't supporting the Vita. The reality is that you don't have answers because the truth is that you're not presenting facts, you're just spinning the same pile of hyperbolic garbage because you have some bizarre personal obsession with LRG. Give it a rest, the overwhelming majority of people in this thread buy LRG games and like what they're doing. All you're doing now is trolling.

[Bojay1997]

So, it's a collectible, and 20 years later when developer-supported means of obtaining the games have probably dropped off, we're back to where we are now. Pay the 3+ figure collector price or else SORRY SOME OF US AREN'T WELL-OFF ENOUGH TO DO THAT hope piracy is an option.
(I want my games legit as much as possible but hell if I was going to pay a flipper $200, loose, for Surprise at Dinosaur Peak in roughly 2009, let alone $1000 or whatever now.
Say the game was originally $49.99 in 1994, even in 2009 that was nearly 3x the original MSRP (inflation adjusted to about $72). I don't think anyone but someone primarily concerned on the resale value would say that's a fair price to play the thing.)

So, it's not about LRG, it's about the fact that games in general are becoming more popular with collectors and more expensive on the secondary market as a result? That's just the reality when people of a certain age have a lot of disposable income.

[Bazoo]

I have mixed feelings on the LRG "debacles." I was able to get Night Trap last night, but I missed WonderBoy all three times last week. WonderBoy had a little more value to me personally but I ended up ordering the PlayAsia version, which I've grown to like that cover anyway.

I think LRG is closer to financial instability than people realize and I can see why, months ago, it was tough to foresee how the demand for these games would go. WonderBoy had the PA version, for example, and NT hype seems fairly recent in my eyes. In some ways I think they kind of trapped themselves with the philosophy that they will never reprint titles, but it would have also been tough to predict how big they would get and with which games. Most importantly, I think they should do two things: switch from Shopify and/or demand that games be held in carts, and also take care of bots in some manner. The amount of issues that happen with PayPal and Amazon Pay at checkout, out of our control, is frustrating. I believe that bots, not really diligent people who want the game, are beating people out due to these errors.

Yet also it is worth noting that these are just games and most (not all) even have an alternative physical edition. WB standard is already going lower than I expected on eBay and has the PA version. Night Trap has the PC version that still currently has the 45% inventory, and that gets you to the Steam version. I'm under the impression that it has almost no requirements other than free hard drive space so basically every current laptop can play it. Shantae has the 3DS version. I understand that as collectors we can get OCD about particular variants, but you also need to let it go sometimes.

[kupomogli]

If you missed Night Trap, either PM EvilGizmo on the forums or open up a ticket at https://limitedrungames.freshdesk.com/support/home

No guarantee but you might be able to get one of the extra copies.

[megasdkirby]

So, it's not about LRG, it's about the fact that games in general are becoming more popular with collectors and more expensive on the secondary market as a result? That's just the reality when people of a certain age have a lot of disposable income.

This.

This is what's happening lately. Also, LRG is getting a plethora of coverage that it used to not have, which makes thinks incredibly harder on the rest of us. For example, just recently I saw CheapAssGamer mention them on Facebook, which never used to happen (or at least I never saw it). Promotions like these increase demand and thus it's harder to get the games.

My solution would be to increase production of certain games. For instance, if Wonderboy and Night Trap had at least 2,000 more units made for the regular or Collector's Edition, perhaps things wouldn't be so negative for the company. The problem is to determine WHICH games need higher print runs, so they can sell out quick but at least give more time for the customer to get them. And not end up being a Law Breakers. Make the games last...perhaps...15 minutes? That would be great for the most of us and for it's existing fanbase.

Does anyone have a list of release dates and titles to be available for LRG?

[Aussie2B]

My opening post should be pretty complete as far as upcoming games and their release dates go. If something's not there, it probably hasn't been announced yet.

Supposedly LRG is going to do something "creative" with Ys Origin to better ensure that everyone who wants a copy can get one. What exactly that entails I don't know. I just wish that, now that "FMV Friday" is out of the way, they'll finally announce the mystery Japanese RPG that's supposed to sell alongside Ys. I don't plan on buying Lili or N++ either, so that's what I'm waiting on.

[Bojay1997]

My opening post should be pretty complete as far as upcoming games and their release dates go. If something's not there, it probably hasn't been announced yet.

Supposedly LRG is going to do something "creative" with Ys Origin to better ensure that everyone who wants a copy can get one. What exactly that entails I don't know. I just wish that, now that "FMV Friday" is out of the way, they'll finally announce the mystery Japanese RPG that's supposed to sell alongside Ys. I don't plan on buying Lili or N++ either, so that's what I'm waiting on.

They're saying the Japanese RPG may be delayed because of changes in the Sony submission process. It may also impact their release schedule after September and cause the number of releases for the rest of the year to slow way down.

[Aussie2B]

Ah, that's too bad. About the mystery RPG being delayed, that is (I wish they could still announce what it is in the meantime). I'm all for the release schedule slowing down, though. I feel like they've been stringing people along with comments like "Spring is going to be busy! Bear with us!", then "Summer is going to be busy! Bear with us!" and "Fall is going to be busy! Bear with us!" They keep making it seem as if the relief of a more relaxed release schedule is just around the corner but then that relief gets pushed further and further back. I dunno how anyone buys every last release these days, let alone the people who buy every platform variant, or even the max quantities of them all. That's just too much money spent on LRG alone each month for me, so I'm happy to now stick with the Vita releases, which are coming out at a saner rate than the PS4 releases, and the once in a blue moon PS4 release that I really want.

[megasdkirby]

Is it possible to cancel an item after it was purchased but before being shipped?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

what did you order that you don't want?

[kupomogli]

what did you order that you don't want?

Probably LawBreakers.

[megasdkirby]

The Bunker. My brother ordered one and now decided he doesn't want it since I got one too.

[Porksta]

An article about Night Trap's release mis-attributed a foul quote to LRG. LRG is sending out tweets denouncing it lol.

[lendelin]

An article about Night Trap's release mis-attributed a foul quote to LRG. LRG is sending out tweets denouncing it lol.

Do you have a reference/link to the article?

[lendelin]

Happy Console Gamer, a youtube channel I watch sometimes, has a video about Limited RUn up. A bit naive, if you ask me, but nevertheless interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFF_K5gDYEc

Game Sack, another gaming channel which I watch at times, wrote the following comment to the above video:


My take: Limited Run promotes the concept of digital-only games more than physical copies without even realizing it. It's much easier to get a digital game. What good are physical copies if buying them is so stressful? Why should people have to go into panic mode to buy a friggin' video game? Of course this isn't all Limited Run's fault. Much of the blame lies on the people who actually do buy them. One person in this comment section somewhere said that if they did pre-orders "no one would buy them except people who actually open and play them, most people just like putting them on their shelves and posting pics of the boxes on social media". This is what it has become. It's no longer about gaming. Now it's only about collecting. The games themselves don't actually matter. It's just about the having. And those people won't buy a game if they feel like everyone else can have it. That's why pre-orders fail with LimitedRun games but they DON'T fail with other publishers. The collector mentality gets worse and worse. Also, from what I heard they did increase production of Night Trap. I haven't been to their site so I don't know what the numbers are but I know for a fact that they were definitely thinking about producing more than the normal allotment at some point. However Limited Run has told me personally that they do like the fervor and sense of urgency surrounding their releases. Bottom line: It's a shitty market, not much anyone can really do about it and the only thing that guarantees you a game any more is buying it digitally. Limited Run is for collectors only. Not gamers. This sucks, but it's the world we live in now.


I agree with all of the above except that this is not only partially LR's fault but ebay scalping and rarity hype are fully LR's fault because they are intended from the beginning as I explained in my posts. They are the intended aspects of their salesmodel, ebay scalping was from the beginning factored in.

Well taken is the point by Game Sack that the salesmethod of LR is counterproductive for physical games and promotes in the end digital games. But the two LR-guys won't care about that, I'm sure, as long as they are busy filling their bank accounts. Always remember: they are facing bankruptcy and endanger their livelihood if not for this very very special salesmodel. Other small publishers which do the same as LR but sell their games in a regular way are expanding, hiring and publishing more games than ever for the same niche market. Maybe the two LR-guys should ask the two owners of Soedesco how to run properly a profitable company without relying on a slick salesmethod disadvantegous for gamers and collectors?

Also remember the quote by GameSack: "However Limited Run has told me personally that they do like the fervor and sense of urgency surrounding their releases." Yep, they certainly do, I wonder why. Hmm...beats me, I can't think about one reason.

[celerystalker]

This topic...

Has anyone considered that Limited Run is inadvertantly helping a lot of these other small publishers by raising the profile of smaller indie releases?

For about two decades now, smaller publishers have tried porting niche games, often of higher quality than what many of these new publishers do, and failed miserably. Companies like A1 and XS tried bringing over PS1 budget and niche titles and couldn't make it work. Whether a lack of advertising budget, poor understanding of localization, or being too late in a console's lifespan, publishers have brought out high-end arcade ports, butchered budget games, and other niche games like Top Shop, Sol Divide, Starfighter Sanvein, Gekioh/Shienryu, WarTech, etc. to general failure.

Limited Run, support them or not, have people paying closer attention to indie releases. Were people lined up to preorder games like Cleopatra's Fortune or Qix Neo when they were getting quiet US releases? Nah. But LR has people looking closer at digital services and earmarking the physical stuff they want even better than other publishers have been able to do with bigger budget Japanese releases in their day. People, being made to be more conscious of small print runs and future releases, are far more in tune with what's happening, and that benefits companies like Soedesco and FanGamer, who not only gain visibility by being in the same business, but get to play the good guy role.

What I'm getting at is that what Limited Run has done has been important for raising awareness and viability for smaller physical releases in an age where it looks like Sony and Microsoft are dying to go all digital. You don't have to like them or support them to appreciate that we are all more aware of physical releases of smaller games in part due to their presence in the marketplace.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

[Bojay1997]

Doug did a great panel at MO Game Con this past weekend. The audio is pretty poor due to technical issues with the camera and sound gear, but a couple of interesting things came out. They are looking at doing a hybrid model release for Ys where they will still have the CE and standard edition on a Friday release day and then a 24 hour preorder window for an unlimited version with different cover art. They are also likely to have to submit to ESRB going forward as there are several small game shops that sell their games and that is the potential delay for games in the coming months as ESRB can require a rating change if there is DLC or other content on the disc that doesn't comply with the earlier digital rating of the game.

https://youtu.be/-GPpQvlg9n0

[Bojay1997]

This topic...

Has anyone considered that Limited Run is inadvertantly helping a lot of these other small publishers by raising the profile of smaller indie releases?

For about two decades now, smaller publishers have tried porting niche games, often of higher quality than what many of these new publishers do, and failed miserably. Companies like A1 and XS tried bringing over PS1 budget and niche titles and couldn't make it work. Whether a lack of advertising budget, poor understanding of localization, or being too late in a console's lifespan, publishers have brought out high-end arcade ports, butchered budget games, and other niche games like Top Shop, Sol Divide, Starfighter Sanvein, Gekioh/Shienryu, WarTech, etc. to general failure.

Limited Run, support them or not, have people paying closer attention to indie releases. Were people lined up to preorder games like Cleopatra's Fortune or Qix Neo when they were getting quiet US releases? Nah. But LR has people looking closer at digital services and earmarking the physical stuff they want even better than other publishers have been able to do with bigger budget Japanese releases in their day. People, being made to be more conscious of small print runs and future releases, are far more in tune with what's happening, and that benefits companies like Soedesco and FanGamer, who not only gain visibility by being in the same business, but get to play the good guy role.

What I'm getting at is that what Limited Run has done has been important for raising awareness and viability for smaller physical releases in an age where it looks like Sony and Microsoft are dying to go all digital. You don't have to like them or support them to appreciate that we are all more aware of physical releases of smaller games in part due to their presence in the marketplace.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

I agree that LRG has greatly boosted the market for physical releases of niche titles. A flood of competitors have entered the market which is good for consumers and frankly, many of us who buy LRG games also buy other niche titles by the other publishers on a regular basis. I also agree with your point that many companies have tried the retail niche approach and failed. I think we are nearing that point again with companies like Rising Star having not released a game in a very long time and THQ Nordic and 505 barely squeezing out a game every 4-5 months and delaying games that have been on the schedule for many more months. Even Soedesco seems to have been hit with delays for whatever reason as their games which I preordered on Amazon keep getting pushed back a month at a time. Personally I don't think the retail model is viable for niche titles as there just isn't enough margin there or volume to make it worthwhile, but for now I'm happy to have more options and a great library of physical niche games from all of the publishers.

[Aussie2B]

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

I hear you on Game Sack. They're like a running joke among my family and friends. Though not remotely clever (which I suppose is appropriate given the target), I call them "Game Suck". They know jack all about anything they're talking about, and they have the vocabulary of 3rd graders, which is all the more astounding when they clearly prepare scripts in advance and have the time to come up with something at least remotely interesting to say. But instead it's all "this is really nice", "this is cool", "I liked this", "this is great". Just an utter lack of substance, and the repetitiveness literally makes my head hurt after a while. My favorite is the rare occasions where they actually acknowledge a game's music to say it's good but then proceed to not play a second of it. If they could actually, you know, describe the music genre or name the composer or something, then we'd have something to work with, but you can't get more worthless than to simply say the music is good and then not let us hear even a snippet. I'm convinced the only reason they have so many viewers is because people like to turn their brains off and just watch video footage from a bunch of different games. Their whining about LRG has never been well-argued either. They're not much better than the loser who recently sent LRG a support ticket threatening to make a negative video about them if they didn't send him a free copy of Night Trap. The whole "us" versus "them" mentality in gaming is just petty and childish, whether it's "casual" versus "hardcore", or "gamer" versus "collector", or whatever else. Who cares if someone buys a game to play it, collect it, or even to keep it sealed? Regardless of what the person does with their own copy, it doesn't make it any easier or harder for anyone else to buy a copy. That copy has been sold, period. I've bought, opened, and played every single Vita release from LRG, but I guess that doesn't align with whatever dumb narrative Game Sack is pushing.

Anyway, I'm digressing too now. But I do want to say that I appreciate your posts. You've made a lot of good points, from an unbiased perspective. You don't view LRG as some sort of cartoonishly evil corporation destroying gaming, and since you're not buying from them, nobody can assume that you're some sort of blind LRG fanboy either.

[Aussie2B]

They are looking at doing a hybrid model release for Ys where they will still have the CE and standard edition on a Friday release day and then a 24 hour preorder window for an unlimited version with different cover art.

Ugh, they need to chill with the cover variants. This sounds good for people who just want a copy period, but it'll do nothing to alleviate the madness to get the CE and standard edition. A cover variant just means a lot of people will try to buy during both sales models, to get one of every variant. Cover variants and CEs are fun as options now and then, but with the frequency of them, it just feels like squeezing collectors for extra money, to get them to double or even triple dip on the same game. I mean, does something like Lili really warrant a CE? Especially when said CE barely includes anything extra over the standard version yet still costs $15 more.

[Bojay1997]

Ugh, they need to chill with the cover variants. This sounds good for people who just want a copy period, but it'll do nothing to alleviate the madness to get the CE and standard edition. A cover variant just means a lot of people will try to buy during both sales models, to get one of every variant. Cover variants and CEs are fun as options now and then, but with the frequency of them, it just feels like squeezing collectors for extra money, to get them to double or even triple dip on the same game. I mean, does something like Lili really warrant a CE? Especially when said CE barely includes anything extra over the standard version yet still costs $15 more.

I agree with you on the variants getting out of control. I would hardly consider myself a completionist collector, but the variants are just confusing things and stretching already thin stock when collectors who "have to have them all" grab the maximum of each. I also agree on the CEs and LEs. I thought the Night Trap one was neat (of course I also backed the failed Kickstarter, so I am definitely the fan base for that game), but I'm not sure that Wonder Boy really needed one and Lili seems too niche to justify two different SKUs. Ys will be an interesting experiment in that if the preorder window is successful, bigger games may start to go back to a preorder model just like the PC games are currently done which should bring the level of angry rhetoric down a few notches on forums and Twitter.

[Spartacus]

FYI
Vblank Entertainment has a physical Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition for the PS4.

https://vblank-entertainment.myshopify.com/

That was a game I've always wanted and never played.

[lendelin]

This topic...

Has anyone considered that Limited Run is inadvertantly helping a lot of these other small publishers by raising the profile of smaller indie releases?

For about two decades now, smaller publishers have tried porting niche games, often of higher quality than what many of these new publishers do, and failed miserably. Companies like A1 and XS tried bringing over PS1 budget and niche titles and couldn't make it work. Whether a lack of advertising budget, poor understanding of localization, or being too late in a console's lifespan, publishers have brought out high-end arcade ports, butchered budget games, and other niche games like Top Shop, Sol Divide, Starfighter Sanvein, Gekioh/Shienryu, WarTech, etc. to general failure.

Limited Run, support them or not, have people paying closer attention to indie releases. Were people lined up to preorder games like Cleopatra's Fortune or Qix Neo when they were getting quiet US releases? Nah. But LR has people looking closer at digital services and earmarking the physical stuff they want even better than other publishers have been able to do with bigger budget Japanese releases in their day. People, being made to be more conscious of small print runs and future releases, are far more in tune with what's happening, and that benefits companies like Soedesco and FanGamer, who not only gain visibility by being in the same business, but get to play the good guy role.

What I'm getting at is that what Limited Run has done has been important for raising awareness and viability for smaller physical releases in an age where it looks like Sony and Microsoft are dying to go all digital. You don't have to like them or support them to appreciate that we are all more aware of physical releases of smaller games in part due to their presence in the marketplace.

Plus, Game Sack's reviews are half-assed, and it's clear that they play the bare minimum of most games to get their two minute blurb and footage together in most cases. Great production values, likable guys, but you only have to watch the show or listen to when they've hosted panels to see that they know surprisingly little , often sourcing Wikipedia for content. I like Happy Console Gamer better, although I know they're buddies, as he typically just talks about games through the lens of his own experience instead of as an authority... but that's all off topic. Then again, so is most of this thread, which was intended to be informative instead of a constant editorial piece, but I suppose I've contributed to the shitstorm as well.

Your Q about a postive effect of LR-publicity on the sales of other indie games by other small publishers could only be answered if you had a really good (and I mean a really good!) market analysis. If there is one out there, we won't see it.

My answer (which is just an assumption) is: in all likelihood not, and if there is one it is marginal. However, even if there is a slight positive effect on the sales of other indie titles through the publicity LR gets, overall the success of LR hurts other small publishers more than benefits them. Additionally, it's not the merit of LR that finally niche games became a successful niche market, nor can it be credited to other small publishers. It was the restructering of distribution and opportunities by digital services which made indie-games successful and profitable.

The reasons: The success of smaller indie-games started before LR got founded. It was a demand by a lot of gamers (including me!) to get great games from XboxLive and the PSNetwork on disc. (I pleaded already during the PS2 times to get more 2D-games like Gradius V, Contra Shattered Soldier, R-Type Final and others) The success of Limbo and other great games, but in particular the success of the two Rayman games showed that 2D isn't dead, that 'retro-gaming' became more popular not only when it comes to increasing prices for older games, but also with older generations of gamers and with a younger generation of gamers! (very important! I noticed that 'old' games became more popular and enyoyed a renaisssance when a 20 year old student told me in 2002 that he plays Joust with his friends.)

There was a big demand of gamers to get these great digital-only games and retro-2D-games on physical disc, Limited Run jumped on the running train. Gianna Sisters, e.g, developed by Black Forest Games, was published by Soedesco on physical disc 6 months before(!) Limited Run was founded. The two owners gave months before LR entered the market interviews in which they stated that great digital-only games should be on physical discs. It was the success of these games on XboxLive and PSNetwork which showed publishers that these kind of games are certainly only a niche market, but nevertheless might be a profitable one looking at the sales numbers. The easy access for smaller developers to digital services produced an unprecedented variety and number of indie-games and successful games; additionally, the digital distribution functioned as a test market. All of the above wasn't there during the PS1-and PS2 -times and therefore it was way more difficult for publishers to get a foothold in the market with niche-games. LR has neither to do with past obstacles nor with new opportunities.

It was the digital services which sparked the success of indie-games and the founding of smaller publishers which produced these indie games on physical media. It wasn't LR, no pioneer-credit there, other companies were first, but even they are NOT the reason for the success of smaller games. (Additionally, the publicity of LR was modest when they were founded) The restructering and opportunities of digital distribution is the primary reason. The smaller publishers, no matter when they were founded, were a RE-action to these structural changes, they didn't act. Another reason (an important Q) might point to the flaws of modern game design. Modern games with all these incredible production costs lost a bit of their playfulness and childlike innocence, also just outright bonkersness we still had during the GC-times and PS2-times, and I think there was finally an awareness that a 2D game can give you something (simplicity, overview, playfulness and challenge) which 3D games cannot or were de-emphasized considering the high production costs.

Is the publicity of LR-games today positive for the sales of the other small publishers? Hard to say, all of them are successful, all of them are expanding, hiring and producing more games than ever in the last three years (also THQ Nordic, don't believe babble); I suspect(!), however, that the success of LR cuts severely into the business of the other small publishers. The salesmodel of LR gives consumers the choice to get the games NOW for retail or take the risk of paying much more later on ebay. (also marketed as such by LR itself, also factually true looking at ebay prices) I can take my time for Ziggurat or Lumo, in all likelihood they decrease in price if I wait as a consumer. Since almost everyone has a limited budget (exceptions even on this board confirm the rule) , in all likelihood LR gets the money first from a lot of potential customers of other small publishers. In this niche market, with the same relatively small target audience, with very similar niche-games, and very similar organizational structures of the companies, there is little doubt in my mind that LR cuts into the business of the others.

This would be ok, after all it is a free market and capitalist competition. The only thing I critisize is the fact that this competitive advantage of LR is based on a salesmodel which in every aspect has disadvantages for consumers, namely us, the gamers and collectors while the other small publishers sell their games consumer-friendly. They give us time to decide, they give us sales-windows whenever it is convenient for us, and we don't have to deal with ebay scalpers if we want games 1 hour after they were released and not even shipped. LRs success comes at the cost of us gamers and collectors UNLESS a ends-justifies-the-means-approach is taken. However, the ends (the games) justifies the means (the terrible salesmodel) would have some merit if we couldn't get these games other than by LR. For the PS4 this is just not the case. This is is true for Vita games, however. But even in the case of Vita games the salesmodel is questionable for obvious reasons. In particular for Vita games a normal salesmodel by LR would make even more sense than for the PS4 because Vita games by LR enjoy as a rule a higher demand than LR-PS4 games, and the competition is almost zero for LR. No need to go the rarity-hype-ebay scalper-route with marketed limited production numbers there.

[Aussie2B]

Less than 10 minutes till the first batch of Lili and N++ go up for sale. I'm guessing this will be the most relaxed of this month's Fridays as far as buying LRG releases goes.

[Bojay1997]

Less than 10 minutes till the first batch of Lili and N++ go up for sale. I'm guessing this will be the most relaxed of this month's Fridays as far as buying LRG releases goes.

I'm surprised Lilli CE sold out that quickly, especially with the limit being dropped to one.

[megasdkirby]

I'm surprised Lilli CE sold out that quickly, especially with the limit being dropped to one.

I actually counted...around a minute to a minute and a half. Was it faster than Wonderboy and NIght Trap? Im glad I was able to get a copy, but WOW that was fast.

[lendelin]

90 seconds again? Great, then LR achieved it's goal, that's exactly what they want, well, maybe up to ten minutes, to be fair; but don't worry if you didn't get a game, they are very responsive to criticism and are working on the problem now for two years;

but N++ is still available after 41 (!!) minutes. Awful. LR completely failed in this "difficult balancing act" between print-run and anticipated demand. If this game doesn't sell out in the next 15 minutes they might end up with "overstock" of 100 games and this might "sink the ship and their developers."

I hope they won't go bankrupt, the smallest bump in the road could mean that they are suddenly out of business. Let's pray that a bundle Lili/N++ will be available for the second batch, this might just avoid bankruptcy.

[celerystalker]

Your Q about a postive effect of LR-publicity on the sales of other indie games by other small publishers could only be answered if you had a really good (and I mean a really good!) market analysis. If there is one out there, we won't see it.

My answer (which is just an assumption) is: in all likelihood not, and if there is one it is marginal. However, even if there is a slight positive effect on the sales of other indie titles through the publicity LR gets, overall the success of LR hurts other small publishers more than benefits them. Additionally, it's not the merit of LR that finally niche games became a successful niche market, nor can it be credited to other small publishers. It was the restructering of distribution and opportunities by digital services which made indie-games successful and profitable.

The reasons: The success of smaller indie-games started before LR got founded. It was a demand by a lot of gamers (including me!) to get great games from XboxLive and the PSNetwork on disc. (I pleaded already during the PS2 times to get more 2D-games like Gradius V, Contra Shattered Soldier, R-Type Final and others) The success of Limbo and other great games, but in particular the success of the two Rayman games showed that 2D isn't dead, that 'retro-gaming' became more popular not only when it comes to increasing prices for older games, but also with older generations of gamers and with a younger generation of gamers! (very important! I noticed that 'old' games became more popular and enyoyed a renaisssance when a 20 year old student told me in 2002 that he plays Joust with his friends.)

There was a big demand of gamers to get these great digital-only games and retro-2D-games on physical disc, Limited Run jumped on the running train. Gianna Sisters, e.g, developed by Black Forest Games, was published by Soedesco on physical disc 6 months before(!) Limited Run was founded. The two owners gave months before LR entered the market interviews in which they stated that great digital-only games should be on physical discs. It was the success of these games on XboxLive and PSNetwork which showed publishers that these kind of games are certainly only a niche market, but nevertheless might be a profitable one looking at the sales numbers. The easy access for smaller developers to digital services produced an unprecedented variety and number of indie-games and successful games; additionally, the digital distribution functioned as a test market. All of the above wasn't there during the PS1-and PS2 -times and therefore it was way more difficult for publishers to get a foothold in the market with niche-games. LR has neither to do with past obstacles nor with new opportunities.

It was the digital services which sparked the success of indie-games and the founding of smaller publishers which produced these indie games on physical media. It wasn't LR, no pioneer-credit there, other companies were first, but even they are NOT the reason for the success of smaller games. (Additionally, the publicity of LR was modest when they were founded) The restructering and opportunities of digital distribution is the primary reason. The smaller publishers, no matter when they were founded, were a RE-action to these structural changes, they didn't act. Another reason (an important Q) might point to the flaws of modern game design. Modern games with all these incredible production costs lost a bit of their playfulness and childlike innocence, also just outright bonkersness we still had during the GC-times and PS2-times, and I think there was finally an awareness that a 2D game can give you something (simplicity, overview, playfulness and challenge) which 3D games cannot or were de-emphasized considering the high production costs.

Is the publicity of LR-games today positive for the sales of the other small publishers? Hard to say, all of them are successful, all of them are expanding, hiring and producing more games than ever in the last three years (also THQ Nordic, don't believe babble); I suspect(!), however, that the success of LR cuts severely into the business of the other small publishers. The salesmodel of LR gives consumers the choice to get the games NOW for retail or take the risk of paying much more later on ebay. (also marketed as such by LR itself, also factually true looking at ebay prices) I can take my time for Ziggurat or Lumo, in all likelihood they decrease in price if I wait as a consumer. Since almost everyone has a limited budget (exceptions even on this board confirm the rule) , in all likelihood LR gets the money first from a lot of potential customers of other small publishers. In this niche market, with the same relatively small target audience, with very similar niche-games, and very similar organizational structures of the companies, there is little doubt in my mind that LR cuts into the business of the others.

This would be ok, after all it is a free market and capitalist competition. The only thing I critisize is the fact that this competitive advantage of LR is based on a salesmodel which in every aspect has disadvantages for consumers, namely us, the gamers and collectors while the other small publishers sell their games consumer-friendly. They give us time to decide, they give us sales-windows whenever it is convenient for us, and we don't have to deal with ebay scalpers if we want games 1 hour after they were released and not even shipped. LRs success comes at the cost of us gamers and collectors UNLESS a ends-justifies-the-means-approach is taken. However, the ends (the games) justifies the means (the terrible salesmodel) would have some merit if we couldn't get these games other than by LR. For the PS4 this is just not the case. This is is true for Vita games, however. But even in the case of Vita games the salesmodel is questionable for obvious reasons. In particular for Vita games a normal salesmodel by LR would make even more sense than for the PS4 because Vita games by LR enjoy as a rule a higher demand than LR-PS4 games, and the competition is almost zero for LR. No need to go the rarity-hype-ebay scalper-route with marketed limited production numbers there.

The success of indie titles on download services certainly helped popularize those styles of games, but that was never what I was getting at to begin with. The point was that consumers are more aware of the physical release publishing schedules for those kinds of games. Schedule awareness, not indie game awareness.

Schedule awareness is the benefit that can (and likely does) extend to other publishers. Even here, nobody was talking about Soedesco at all until it was brought up under the LRG discussion umbrella. It's the publishers that really have a stake here, after all. The developers are making the vast majority of their money through digital sales still, not through these physical releases. Sure, they still benefit, but LRG, Soedesco, Fangamer, whatever... they're all just finding a way to make some money off the top, which isn't an enormous margin for 5000 copies of a game. They aren't making millions per game here. They are making thousands.

This means that sell through and release awareness are vital, because the money at stake here is far less than one might think. So, are people learning about, say, Saturday Morning RPG because of LRG? Nope. However, fans who want physical copies, seeing them sell, are now watching to see if their favorite indie game will get picked up for a physical release, because LRG has helped make people confident that it will happen, whether it's them, Soedesco, or SuperJim'sAwesomeGamesDoneFancy. This is the shared benefit I was talking about.

[Bojay1997]

90 seconds again? Great, then LR achieved it's goal, that's exactly what they want, well, maybe up to ten minutes, to be fair; but don't worry if you didn't get a game, they are very responsive to criticism and are working on the problem now for two years;

but N++ is still available after 41 (!!) minutes. Awful. LR completely failed in this "difficult balancing act" between print-run and anticipated demand. If this game doesn't sell out in the next 15 minutes they might end up with "overstock" of 100 games and this might "sink the ship and their developers."

I hope they won't go bankrupt, the smallest bump in the road could mean that they are suddenly out of business. Let's pray that a bundle Lili/N++ will be available for the second batch, this might just avoid bankruptcy.

Give it a rest Professor Blowhard, the adults are talking and you aren't adding anything to the discourse.

[Bojay1997]

The success of indie titles on download services certainly helped popularize those styles of games, but that was never what I was getting at to begin with. The point was that consumers are more aware of the physical release publishing schedules for those kinds of games. Schedule awareness, not indie game awareness.

Schedule awareness is the benefit that can (and likely does) extend to other publishers. Even here, nobody was talking about Soedesco at all until it was brought up under the LRG discussion umbrella. It's the publishers that really have a stake here, after all. The developers are making the vast majority of their money through digital sales still, not through these physical releases. Sure, they still benefit, but LRG, Soedesco, Fangamer, whatever... they're all just finding a way to make some money off the top, which isn't an enormous margin for 5000 copies of a game. They aren't making millions per game here. They are making thousands.

This means that sell through and release awareness are vital, because the money at stake here is far less than one might think. So, are people learning about, say, Saturday Morning RPG because of LRG? Nope. However, fans who want physical copies, seeing them sell, are now watching to see if their favorite indie game will get picked up for a physical release, because LRG has helped make people confident that it will happen, whether it's them, Soedesco, or SuperJim'sAwesomeGamesDoneFancy. This is the shared benefit I was talking about.

Exactly this. Frankly, there's a reason companies like Fangamer and Iam8Bit sell merchandise and all sorts of other items. There isn't a ton of money to be made in this space in general and I suspect if you really dove into the financials for companies like Soedesco, you'd find that they are generating a small amount of revenue and they probably keep their costs ultra low by minimizing overhead, advertising, staffing, etc...The niche market is expanding and the fact that Guacamelee is selling quickly within a day of LRG doing a two game release that also seems to be selling very quickly (well Lilli did anyway) is a good sign that the market is healthy and vibrant.

[Porksta]

Do you have a reference/link to the article?

The article has since removed the quote. Basically someone tweeted at LRG asking why they don't do Nintendo games. Another person replied to the tweet "If Nintendo weren't such dicks, LRG would have done it." Then a news site quoted the tweet in an article.

[Aussie2B]

I actually learned of Saturday Morning RPG because of LRG, but I'm probably more ignorant of the indie game scene than most people who play them. I've got too huge of a backlog of physical games to care about digital-only games unless they're heavily discounted and/or something I'm dying to play. LRG has definitely made me more aware of these kinds of games in general and their physical releases. I didn't even know the physical Vita run of Retro City Rampage happened until after LRG came into existence, but now I'm on top of every niche Vita physical run. People who talk about LRG releases also usually bring to people's attention releases from Fangamer, Badland Games, Gaijinworks, Vblank, Special Reserve Games, Signature Edition Games, Play-Asia, etc. I also pay more attention to digital releases because it's actually realistic to imagine them receiving physical print runs. There have been a number of games now that caught my interest, that I may have imported to have a physical copy or bought digitally on sale, and I thought to myself "I'm gonna wait and see if LRG or a similar company picks this up for physical release". Lo and behold, they did get physical runs, and I'm so happy that we've reached a point where, with Sony platforms at least, basically everything has a shot of coming out physically.

[Gameguy]

Less than 10 minutes till the first batch of Lili and N++ go up for sale.
Did you mean by LRG or by the resellers?

[Aussie2B]

Hardy har har

Edit: Also, yesssssss, I totally called it, next Friday's mystery RPG is one of Kemco's retro-style RPGs: Asdivine Hearts. I knew I was being smart by holding off on Kemco's Vita releases. If they had remained digital-only, I would've picked them up on sale eventually, just like I did with the PSP ones, End of Serenity and Mystic Chronicles, but I had a feeling that LRG might pick them up. I hope this means we'll get Revenant Saga in due time too.

[kupomogli]

A Kemco RPG? LRG was doing so well there releasing games that were actually worth getting. Kemco RPGs are dime a dozen RPGs, and when I say dime a dozen, it's because Kemco pushes out a new one every single month(on cell phones.) The games pretty much control alike, they all look alike, and the battle systems might be different, but they still give off the same feel. These RPGs are some of the absolute worst I've played, and if it wasn't that they were giving some of them away for free for a limited time due to reaching over a couple million sales, I never would have played them. These games do little more than put a stain on the RPG genre and LRG is partnering with them to release this garbage. Not Square Enix with any of the Romancing SaGa games, I Am Setsuna, or Adventures of Mana, not with 2K with either XCOM Enemy Unknown + and Civilization, which are strategy games on the Vita not on the RPG(also $1 on the 2K PS Humble Bundle btw,) but with Kemco for their trash JRPGs. Thanks, LRG!

[Aussie2B]

lol ok

You don't have to tell me what Kemco's RPGs are like. I've bought them, played them, had fun with them, and have been wanting them to come out physically. So people like myself don't deserve to have the option to buy them physically because the great kupomogli, in all his self-centered wisdom, decrees that they're trash? Well, it's a good thing that your say doesn't amount to shit, as I'll be on LRG's site next Friday happily buying Asdivine Hearts along with Ys Origin. I think it's one of the best release days for LRG in months.

Also, you clearly aren't playing these games if you think they all look alike. I mean, for crying out loud, some of them use 3D graphics while others are fully 2D. On what planet does that equal "they all look alike"? Similarly, you have to be bonkers if you think it'd be just as easy for LRG to get Square Enix's digital-only games as Kemco's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why LRG hasn't had any luck getting Square Enix's games. It's not for lack of trying.

[Bojay1997]

lol ok

You don't have to tell me what Kemco's RPGs are like. I've bought them, played them, had fun with them, and have been wanting them to come out physically. So people like myself don't deserve to have the option to buy them physically because the great kupomogli, in all his self-centered wisdom, decrees that they're trash? Well, it's a good thing that your say doesn't amount to shit, as I'll be on LRG's site next Friday happily buying Asdivine Hearts along with Ys Origin. I think it's one of the best release days for LRG in months.

Also, you clearly aren't playing these games if you think they all look alike. I mean, for crying out loud, some of them use 3D graphics while others are fully 2D. On what planet does that equal "they all look alike"? Similarly, you have to be bonkers if you think it'd be just as easy for LRG to get Square Enix's digital-only games as Kemco's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why LRG hasn't had any luck getting Square Enix's games. It's not for lack of trying.

What I think is most amusing about Kupomogli, my second favorite troll in this thread, is that he uses the same name on the LRG forums and he couldn't be nicer or more respectful, especially when he gets a little attention from the LRG team. Here he just spews garbage and hatred against LRG. I mean he literally posted a greatly toned down version of what he posted here on LRG's forums just moments ago, but prefaced it by saying he is planning on buying the game. So, he's either a coward or suffers from mental issues, not really sure which at this point.

[Aussie2B]

He's been banned on enough other forums that he knows exactly where to draw the line short of being hit by the ban hammer, hence why he's gotten away with being a rude, trolling nuisance on this board for years without getting the boot.

The most hilarious part to me is the "LRG was doing so well there releasing games that were actually worth getting" line. Wasn't he the first to go on and on about how Night Trap is shovelware and that LRG shouldn't have picked it up? But now he's zipped his lip on that because there's no arguing with the high demand that release had and the fact that it was a good choice for LRG, both in making money and for providing a game that people were eager to own physically (too good even, since they should've manufactured a lot more copies).

[lendelin]

What I think is most amusing about Kupomogli, my second favorite troll in this thread, is that he uses the same name on the LRG forums and he couldn't be nicer or more respectful, especially when he gets a little attention from the LRG team. Here he just spews garbage and hatred against LRG. I mean he literally posted a greatly toned down version of what he posted here on LRG's forums just moments ago, but prefaced it by saying he is planning on buying the game. So, he's either a coward or suffers from mental issues, not really sure which at this point.

While kupomogli according to you suffers from mental issues, is a coward, or in need of therapy and lingers too much around in forums, may I ask who is your favorite troll in this thread?

[kupomogli]

He's been banned on enough other forums that he knows exactly where to draw the line short of being hit by the ban hammer, hence why he's gotten away with being a rude, trolling nuisance on this board for years without getting the boot.

The most hilarious part to me is the "LRG was doing so well there releasing games that were actually worth getting" line. Wasn't he the first to go on and on about how Night Trap is shovelware and that LRG shouldn't have picked it up? But now he's zipped his lip on that because there's no arguing with the high demand that release had and the fact that it was a good choice for LRG, both in making money and for providing a game that people were eager to own physically (too good even, since they should've manufactured a lot more copies).

I didn't get Night Trap, and I've made it clear in other threads. Made my opinion clear in other threads.

When I said LRG was doing so well, was that lately I have purchased quite a few of their games. Starting from Furi, I've purchased Bard's Gold, Rive, Oceanhorn, Neurovoider, WonderBoy, and N++, and will be purchasing Ys Origins. I'm only purchasing the Kemco RPG because RPGs tend to be more highly sought after as a genre than others. It seems to me that people who play a lot of RPGs also tend to collect these games. I'd say finding an RPG fan that collects mostly that genre would be more common than finding an FPS fan who mostly collects that genre despite RPG being more niche than the FPS genre.

Also, my post over there isn't much different than my post here, I just didn't copy and paste it to say the exact same thing and created a new post. The only thing I didn't state was that Kemco RPGs put a stain on the RPG genre, that LRG releases a dime a dozen Kemco RPG instead of a Square Enix or 2K game, but otherwise the post mostly came across the same aside from the very beginning which I stated I'm still getting the game due to resale value. I did put here that they release every month, over there every one, two, or three, because really every month is an exegeration, but all I know is they really shovel this garbage out.

If you two are going to stalk me on the other forum, then why not be a bit more realistic? I mean some pages ago Bojay stated how I bash LRG there as I do over here, now you two see a post that looks slightly nicer than it looks over here and I couldn't be any nicer. I shouldn't even have to defend myself, but here's another recent post that I made in the N++ Ultimate Edition thread, because N++ is another game I was interested in picking up.


I completely agree, they know it's coming and if LRG really cares about preserving physical as they say they do, then why not just wait since there's six other games releasing this month as it is. I'll pick up as many games that they release that interest me, and this is one I will pick up, but I think it's more about the money. I guess the only thing that makes me feel apologetic about it is atleast it has over 2000 levels, but at the same time, it's still an incomplete game and it doesn't have to be if they'd just wait until releasing it.

People throw "troll" out when it's less that the person is actually being a troll, but rather other people that are offended that this so called troll doesn't have their same opinion. I make it quite clear in my signature that everything in any of my posts are opinion unless stated otherwise, and you guys are offended that my opinion isn't the same as yours, so automatically I'm a troll. I'm not pushing anything on you that these opinions are fact, another thing that people like to throw out there when they don't like someone elses opinion, that oh noes, that person's opinion is different, he's trying to force his opinion on us. Usually after making the post I don't press the issue.

*edit*

With as few comments as I've made in this thread and as many comments as both of you have made in this same thread, reiterating your same opinion, like it will change lendelin's opinion for example, I could just as well say you guys are trolls. Also, how many names have I been called in this thread from Bojay besides troll? Have I called you guys any names trying to get any of my points across? Who's the troll, really? Oh wait, I just called you guys trolls by saying that. I'm a troll, nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

[Bojay1997]

While kupomogli according to you suffers from mental issues, is a coward, or in need of therapy and lingers too much around in forums, may I ask who is your favorite troll in this thread?

Why that would be you Professor Blowhard. Posting the same wall of text over and over and over again to an audience that overwhelmingly doesn't agree with you and doesn't care. But hey, keep on doing what you're doing because it's certainly easier than trying to make actual change in the world or accepting that you don't have to constantly crap all over things people like just because you don't like them.

[Bojay1997]

I didn't get Night Trap, and I've made it clear in other threads. Made my opinion clear in other threads.

When I said LRG was doing so well, was that lately I have purchased quite a few of their games. Starting from Furi, I've purchased Bard's Gold, Rive, Oceanhorn, Neurovoider, WonderBoy, and N++, and will be purchasing Ys Origins. I'm only purchasing the Kemco RPG because RPGs tend to be more highly sought after as a genre than others. It seems to me that people who play a lot of RPGs also tend to collect these games. I'd say finding an RPG fan that collects mostly that genre would be more common than finding an FPS fan who mostly collects that genre despite RPG being more niche than the FPS genre.

Also, my post over there isn't much different than my post here, I just didn't copy and paste it to say the exact same thing and created a new post. The only thing I didn't state was that Kemco RPGs put a stain on the RPG genre, that LRG releases a dime a dozen Kemco RPG instead of a Square Enix or 2K game, but otherwise the post mostly came across the same aside from the very beginning which I stated I'm still getting the game due to resale value. I did put here that they release every month, over there every one, two, or three, because really every month is an exegeration, but all I know is they really shovel this garbage out.

If you two are going to stalk me on the other forum, then why not be a bit more realistic? I mean some pages ago Bojay stated how I bash LRG there as I do over here, now you two see a post that looks slightly nicer than it looks over here and I couldn't be any nicer. I shouldn't even have to defend myself, but here's another recent post that I made in the N++ Ultimate Edition thread, because N++ is another game I was interested in picking up.



People throw "troll" out when it's less that the person is actually being a troll, but rather other people that are offended that this so called troll doesn't have their same opinion. I make it quite clear in my signature that everything in any of my posts are opinion unless stated otherwise, and you guys are offended that my opinion isn't the same as yours, so automatically I'm a troll. I'm not pushing anything on you that these opinions are fact, another thing that people like to throw out there when they don't like someone elses opinion, that oh noes, that person's opinion is different, he's trying to force his opinion on us. Usually after making the post I don't press the issue.

Nope. A troll is someone that intentionally tries to instigate arguments or discord for no actual reason other than they like to watch the results of their unwanted and inappropriate assertions of their opinions in places they don't belong. I mean this thread was started so that people could share information about LRG releases and talk about their experiences buying and playing LRG games. You and a couple of other forum members have now repeatedly derailed the thread to bitch and complain about things like the LRG business model or the titles they have chosen to release and a variety of other complaints the rest of us don't care about at all. You and Lendelin in particular also have repeatedly engaged in condescending tirades that either overtly or subtly paint those of us who buy LRG games as stupid sheep or OCD collectors when in fact many of us just enjoy the added choice of being able to buy digital games that had no hope release in physical form prior to LRG. I mean you're literally like the loudmouth who shows up at a kid's birthday party and wants to start talking politics or religion. You have a right to do so, but even people who may agree with you don't want to hear it in that kind of environment. This thread is literally becoming toxic and what's worse, you guys aren't even raising new points anymore, but just recycling the same ones day after day and release after release. I would really appreciate it if you would just take it elsewhere as nobody here is interested in having a debate with you or anyone else about the merits of LRG, its business model or anything else that you want to keep raising here.

[Aussie2B]

If you two are going to stalk me on the other forum, then why not be a bit more realistic? I mean some pages ago Bojay stated how I bash LRG there as I do over here, now you two see a post that looks slightly nicer than it looks over here and I couldn't be any nicer.

People throw "troll" out when it's less that the person is actually being a troll, but rather other people that are offended that this so called troll doesn't have their same opinion. I make it quite clear in my signature that everything in any of my posts are opinion unless stated otherwise, and you guys are offended that my opinion isn't the same as yours, so automatically I'm a troll. I'm not pushing anything on you that these opinions are fact, another thing that people like to throw out there when they don't like someone elses opinion, that oh noes, that person's opinion is different, he's trying to force his opinion on us. Usually after making the post I don't press the issue.

*edit*

With as few comments as I've made in this thread and as many comments as both of you have made in this same thread, reiterating your same opinion, like it will change lendelin's opinion for example, I could just as well say you guys are trolls. Also, how many names have I been called in this thread from Bojay besides troll? Have I called you guys any names trying to get any of my points across? Who's the troll, really? Oh wait, I just called you guys trolls by saying that. I'm a troll, nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. You keep saying "you two", but I don't even visit the LRG forum. I have never seen any of your posts over there and gave zero indication that I had.

I call people trolls when they quite literally exhibit a pattern of textbook trolling behavior. Not for any other reason. Even Merriam-Webster has a definition for trolling these days:

"to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content"

It's laughable to suggest that I have a problem with game-related opinions that differ from my own. I regularly point out my indifference to people not liking games I like or vice versa, even in this topic. I don't think Night Trap is a good game either, but do you see me whining about LRG releasing it or wishing that the thousands of people who did want it were denied the opportunity to buy it? Or insulting them by saying that they're bad at games and can't tolerate a challenge so that's why they like games with minimal gameplay like FMV games, "walking simulators", and visual novels? No, I'm happy for them. I'm happy that they're getting something they want and will enjoy. And since I don't want to blow tons of money on LRG anyway, I'm perfectly happy for there to be releases here and there that I can skip with no remorse. That's how a decent, respectful human being behaves, as opposed to trolling behavior. What I do have a problem with is people who act rude and entitled, like the universe revolves around them and everything that isn't appealing to them would be better not existing at all. If somebody can't comprehend nor respect that different people have different tastes and different wants, and everybody's views and wants are equal (assuming they cause no harm to others), then, sorry, they're a troll.

P.S.: I started this topic and post in it mostly to share info, so give me a break with this feeble attempt at making it look like I've been stirring up trouble.

[kupomogli]

Nope. A troll is someone that intentionally tries to instigate arguments or discord for no actual reason other than they like to watch the results of their unwanted and inappropriate assertions of their opinions in places they don't belong.

I responded giving my opinion about the newest announcement. If I never played any Kemco RPGs on Android and didn't know how they were, I would have never made the comment I did, the fact that I did play Kemco RPG and had the opinion that these RPGs were trash, I thought I'd give my opinion on those and that I think this release is more than likely trash. My post was only my opinion, your posts that followed behind mine was several responses both trashing my opinion and calling me names. And hey, if being a troll is to "instigate a response," well, I guess you're right, because I did reply specifically because both of your responses.

[Aussie2B]

Now you're just playing naive. Your whole rant about Kemco RPGs boiled down to "LRG shouldn't be releasing these games", which in turn implies to hell with all the people who do like them and do want them. Or are you really so lacking in social sense that you can't comprehend the difference between your rant and somebody saying something like "I don't like Kemco's RPGs, so I'll wait for the next game"? You can even use harsher language than that and still convey that same message. But, no, you expect to be catered to with every single release and complain to high heaven when you're not. It reminds me of how every time an otome game is announced straight male gamers throw a fit that it wasn't the millionth game with cute girls instead.

[lendelin]

Why that would be you Professor Blowhard. Posting the same wall of text over and over and over again to an audience that overwhelmingly doesn't agree with you and doesn't care. But hey, keep on doing what you're doing because it's certainly easier than trying to make actual change in the world or accepting that you don't have to constantly crap all over things people like just because you don't like them.


Businessguy, you are a moron. I mean that very seriously and honestly. If I look at the posts in this thread, then I recognize only one troll, and that is you. You are posting inflammatory, nonsensical stuff and personal attacks as soon as someone disagrees with you. You are going berserk as soon as someone critisizes LR.

This is my first response to you in this thread after you attacked a fellow DP-member:

"Worse is the fact, however, that you engage in completely unreasonable and nonsensical personal attacks. If a guy reacts to very normal posts by accusing others as narrow-minded, obnoxious and claims to speak for everyone and even suggests therapy and a break from forums, isn't that...lemme think...narrow-minded, obnoxious, overly engaged in forums and in need of therapy? :)"

You called others narrow-minded, in need of therapy, obnoxious, cowardly and having mental issues, and then you directed these wonderful personal attacks also towards me, suddenly I was narrow-minded, in need of a more productive life, telling others becasue I just don't like them, and now you reached the behavioral level and humor-level of a 12 year old. Are you serious?

First you posted some of the stupidest things I read online in a long time (like Soedesco might be governement funded and other nonsense), then you suggested instead of critisizing LR I should found my own publishing company (I was really happy that I didn't critisize VW, otherwise you would have demanded to start a car manufacturing company), then you relied on completely unfounded stupid personal attacks.

You are the troll par excellence! Your posts are inflammatory, consist of personal attacks, are at times irrelevant, and truly offensive to anyone who has his head screwed on the right way. Don't you think that it is trolling to post inflammatory stupidities just in order to suppress a very normal discussion? Don't you think it is trolling to fall back to childish humor like 'Professor Blowhard' and 'let adults speak'? And what is this babble about 'changing the world?' Are you nuts? And how can someone who is right in his mind say I critisize people just because I don't like them? And what about this business-babble, "I'm a businessman, you are not a businesman, you all are not businessmen, did you ever try to get a loan?" To calculate and recognize fix costs and variable costs isn't rocket science! I can tell you one thing: if you ever had a business, it wasn't a successful one considering your intelligence level. Don't get angry now because I'm right, ok?

I responded to a post of celerystalker, there is no 'trolling' there. I didn't adress you because the level of intelligence of the discourse with you wasn't - let's say - desirable. I responded in a civil way, celerystalker responded in a civil way. There were no insults, inflammatory insinuations, no personal attacks. It is possible to have discussions this way if no-one claims to own the eternal truth. You, however, introduce insults as soon someone shows you that your 'reasoning' isn't the smartest one.

I don't care if someone disagrees with me, disagreements are very normal, I only evaluate the reasoning without insults. If a reasoning doesn't make sense, I call it nonsense. That's not a personal attack. It seems that you have to learn (you should have done that a long time ago as a teenager) that if someone offers a more convincing explanation, you should start activating your brain and not behave like a 12 year old with bad humor.

Don't you realize that you discredit yourself? Just the above quote is stupid, at times it's even nuts to a level that I was concerned. You take this discussion way too seriously, this is not a life and death-issue, it is a discussion about a game company which will be almost forgotten in ten years. It is unimportant. I had to make two important decisions today, this discussion is nothing compared to them.

I suspected that there is something wrong with you the first time when I read a post by you. I was right.

Since you evaluate the character and personalities of others constantly without even knowing them, the following is my evaluation about you, this first post by you was a nice self-characterization:

"If a guy reacts to very normal posts by accusing others as narrow-minded, obnoxious and claims to speak for everyone and even suggests therapy and a break from forums, isn't that...lemme think...narrow-minded, obnoxious, overly engaged in forums and in need of therapy? :)"

I don't recommend therapy, but certainly a break from forums and from being online, I KNOW that you are lurking around in way too many forums. Don't take online discussions too seroiusly, take a deep breath, think before you hit the enter button, and keep a cool head. This way reasonable guys might start to take you seriously again.

Just do me one favor: post one more time, get your anger out of the system, but then ignore me. I'll ignore you. I didn't adress you for a long time, let's leave at that. At times you seem so angry and take evrything so personal that it is a bit scary. I don't like big noises about nothing. And I don't like this level of utter irrationality and stupidity.

Greetings, Professor Blowhard (please, you adult, continue your conversations with other adults!) :) :) :) (I mean...seriously? Aren't you embarrassed?) :)

[kupomogli]

But, no, you expect to be catered to with every single release and complain to high heaven when you're not.

So you should be able to find me ranting about Jotun, Plague Road, etc, right? I actually didn't conplain in this thread about either one of those releases. Now I did look up gameplay of both, as well as reviews of Jotun before purchase and neither interested me. Plague Road looked like a pretty bad game, while Jotun didn't look especially good and seemed like a short adventure I wouldn't ever go back to once finishing it. So no, I'm not expected to be catered to every single release and I don't complain every time when I'm not.

When you stated Furi wasn't for you, I didn't say anything about it. I was stunned that you said you didn't like the music to Furi and that it didn't interest you, sure, but I didn't say anything about it. Maybe I should comment on the stuff I'm interested in more often, that way it's not just everything I'm not interested in, maybe give you guys less of a reason to flip out.

[lendelin]

The success of indie titles on download services certainly helped popularize those styles of games, but that was never what I was getting at to begin with. The point was that consumers are more aware of the physical release publishing schedules for those kinds of games. Schedule awareness, not indie game awareness.

Schedule awareness is the benefit that can (and likely does) extend to other publishers. Even here, nobody was talking about Soedesco at all until it was brought up under the LRG discussion umbrella. It's the publishers that really have a stake here, after all. The developers are making the vast majority of their money through digital sales still, not through these physical releases. Sure, they still benefit, but LRG, Soedesco, Fangamer, whatever... they're all just finding a way to make some money off the top, which isn't an enormous margin for 5000 copies of a game. They aren't making millions per game here. They are making thousands.

This means that sell through and release awareness are vital, because the money at stake here is far less than one might think. So, are people learning about, say, Saturday Morning RPG because of LRG? Nope. However, fans who want physical copies, seeing them sell, are now watching to see if their favorite indie game will get picked up for a physical release, because LRG has helped make people confident that it will happen, whether it's them, Soedesco, or SuperJim'sAwesomeGamesDoneFancy. This is the shared benefit I was talking about.

Just a last short answer because you are a very reasonable guy (I won't continue in this thread, there is a true danger of derailing it, that wasn't my intention, and the discussion hit a completely irrational nonsense level):

'Schedule awareness' is too vague for me and too general. Without individual data (not aggregate data) there is no way to go reasonably in this or the other direction. The speculation level is too high.

For me? LR didn't increase the 'awareness level' for physical games, I was aware of other small publishers way before I heard about LR. I think that videogame nuts and collectors like us are pretty well informed, in particular if they waited like me for a long time to get these games finally on disc.

Honestly, I think that a single company in this niche market isn't important enough to have a significant positive or negative impact when it comes to 'schedule awareness'. Not 505 Games, not LR or Soedesco. No speculation here that LR boosted the awareness of physical smaller games so that other publishers profit (might be thankfully picked up by the irrational fanbase), no speculation here that LR disenfranchised consumers and potential consumers and hurt the other publsihers (also willingly picked up by an irrational enemy base of LR). Both is pure speculation. My guess is: no negative or positive impact at all.

[Koa Zo]

I've never used the ignore feature on any forum, but somehow I've felt it better to add two to the list on this forum. I guess with so few active users the really distracting ones stand out all that much more.

[Aussie2B]

I received my Wonder Boy CE today. For being over double the price of the standard copies, it's a little disappointing. I mean, just contents-wise alone, you're not getting a lot for all that extra cash. They could've made up for that a bit in the quality of the components, but that's not particularly impressive either. They didn't bother to individually number the boxes like they have with other CEs of theirs, the manual is black and white, the poster is folded, which kills the appeal of actually hanging it up, but what makes the worst impression is the cheap, brown cardboard tray holding it all. Inside that, they have nice trays that match the outer packaging (white with the black grid) holding the game and OST, so why they couldn't make all the trays like those is beyond me.

Unfortunately, I think LRG probably won't receive much feedback on the contents of their CEs, good or bad, because so many people are probably keeping them sealed just as shelf trophies. But looking through this CE just is further evidence to me that they should dial it back a little with the CEs. Part of the appeal of LRG and similar companies is that they release games that are cheaper than standard releases. It doesn't sting much to drop $25 or $30 here and there. But when they sell CEs, they're every bit as expensive as LEs from regular game publishers, sometimes more so, despite that the base price of those games is higher and the LEs contain even better contents. And when those LEs are sold exclusively on the publisher's own store, like is typically the case with LEs from NISA and IFI and such, they're probably not being produced in numbers significantly higher than LRG's CEs. How long can LRG realistically compete in this sector before people are like "this is too much for too little; just give me the game itself"? Maybe I've just been spoiled on the quality and relatively cheap prices of LEs from publishers like IFI. I plan to order the Mary Skelter LE from them in a couple days, and it coincidentally has the same price point as the Wonder Boy CE. While it lacks an OST, which sucks, you get waaaaay more for your money (even more so considering the base game is $40, not the $30 of Wonder Boy), and having bought several from them at this point, I know that the quality of the items and packaging from them is always really nice.

[Porksta]

I believe Wonder Boy was designed to look like a Master System game, was it not? Hence the black and white manual and other features.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, which is something I'm not thrilled about either, as I think Master System packaging was generally cheap and ugly, and I don't even associate the series with the Master System because I've played most of them on the PC Engine, including this particular game, as those versions are far superior to the crummy Master System versions. Are all Master System manuals black and white? It's been a long time since I've cracked open one of my SMS games, so I can't even remember if any are in color or not. Plus my Master System collection isn't huge to begin with. Either way, I don't think they should've held back on the finer details of the CE just to adhere to SMS standards.

[Koa Zo]

I believe Wonder Boy was designed to look like a Master System game, was it not? Hence the black and white manual and other features.
If that was the intention then the manual would be blue and white - which could have a been a cool nod to the source. For all the supposed reverence for the source material a full color manual showing off the artwork would have been appropriate.


Are all Master System manuals black and white?
Master System manuals are all blue and white. In North America Sega never did full color manuals.

[Aussie2B]

Ah, to be more accurate, the Wonder Boy manual is printed in a bluish tone, rather than black, so yeah, that further backs up it being intentional. Still would've preferred full-color, especially if they're gonna have pages showcasing monster art. On top of that, it's got a page of directions showing how to insert your Mega Cartridge into your system, showing an image of a Master System, and the Controls page shows the SMS controller and describes the controls based on that. It's cute but also kinda dumb because a manual should first and foremost be instructional. People can pretend all they want that this is a SMS game, but the reality is that this is a PS4 game, and if I'm reading how the controls work, I want the actual PS4 buttons to be named.

Personally, I think a CE should be more about honoring the game and/or its series than hardware the series used to appear on. Despite that I love the series, I feel like I'm not really in the target audience for this CE, as it seems to be more about Master System nostalgia than Wonder Boy itself.

[Aussie2B]

LRG shared their plans for Ys Origin today. While the CE will be limited to 3000 per platform, the standard edition will be a preorder with no limits, with an ordering window of 24 hours. I wish they left it open for at least a week, but either way, it should prevent some of the madness seen with Wonder Boy and Night Trap. The only cover variant they'll have is a PS4 variant sold at PAX West that'll later be sold on the site as well. The CE is a little lackluster with only an art book and poster along with the game in the CE box. For a series so famous for its music, you'd think they'd include a soundtrack. But at least it isn't over double the price of standard copies.

What cracked me up while reading the email was this line about Ys Origin: "Best described as an arcade-like platformer RPG with Metroidvania elements". Yeaaaahhhh, if you name-drop four different incongruous genres, you're prooobably not describing a game in the best was possible, haha. You wanna know my description? It's a frickin' adventure game, LRG. Or you can call it an action RPG but I hate that term myself.

[megasdkirby]

But it is...kinda. $54.99 for a poster and an extra knick knack? I rather get the preorder one.

[Aussie2B]

Don't forget the CE box itself! :p It's kinda sad and pathetic when there's so little inside the box that they gotta hype up the box itself. Though I guess for all the people keeping LRG's CEs sealed, the box is literally the only part they can enjoy. I'm a sucker for LEs, so I still plan to pick it up, but LRG's are easily among the worst values out of all the various publishers I buy LEs from.

[Bojay1997]

Don't forget the CE box itself! :p It's kinda sad and pathetic when there's so little inside the box that they gotta hype up the box itself. Though I guess for all the people keeping LRG's CEs sealed, the box is literally the only part they can enjoy. I'm a sucker for LEs, so I still plan to pick it up, but LRG's are easily among the worst values out of all the various publishers I buy LEs from.

Yep, the CE is very disappointing. I know music rights can be tough, but a soundtrack would have been nice or some other little item rather than a poster, box and flimsy art book.

[megasdkirby]

I will go for the CE as well, at least the Vita version of it. Then get the standard PS4 version of Ys. Then the two Kemco RPG's.

Very sad CE, but I'm a sucker for it anyway. :)

Still, I would love to have seen a music CD in the package as well.

[mailman187666]

I'd like to go for the standard edition of both PS4 games this Friday. I open and play all the games I get from LRG, so I don't necessarily need any of the box sets. I spent a good amount of time playing Wonderboy yesterday and think it is awesome. The visuals and music are both spectacular. The last Ys game I played was 7 (I think) for PSP. I'm a sucker for RPGs so I'd like to get these games. I can't wait to try my copy of Night Trap when it comes in as well. Last I played it was the 32X version when it was fairly new. I have a soft spot for some of those early Digital Pictures games.

[kupomogli]

LRG stated they would look into making a CE better than their average CE after the Heavy Arms Asian CE was announced, only for them to cost $55 for pretty much nothing in comparison. Not only that, but Doug was going out of his way to make people avoid purchasing the Heavy Arms CE stated they should wait until they see LRG and that the CE version of Ys Origins from Heavy Arms isn't in English despite Heavy Arms announcing it as such. Here's the $60 Heavy Arms CE of Ys Origins.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFQEIu1UwAAKPnO.jpg

I already have Ys Origins preordered for PS4 and Vita from Play-Asia, but I'm ocd about even the smallest detail. Both the ratings are different, plus the buttons will be reversed so o will be accept and x will be cancelled, and while I play import games and deal with it if I have to(for button changes on the PS4 I use the accessibility options to change x to o and o to x.) Was waiting for just in case I miss the LRG release, but once I preorder both copies of Ys, I'll cancel the Play Asia preorders.

[Bojay1997]

LRG stated they would look into making a CE better than their average CE after the Heavy Arms Asian CE was announced, only for them to cost $55 for pretty much nothing in comparison. Not only that, but Doug was going out of his way to make people avoid purchasing the Heavy Arms CE stated they should wait until they see LRG and that the CE version of Ys Origins from Heavy Arms isn't in English despite Heavy Arms announcing it as such. Here's the $60 Heavy Arms CE of Ys Origins.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFQEIu1UwAAKPnO.jpg

I already have Ys Origins preordered for PS4 and Vita from Play-Asia, but I'm ocd about even the smallest detail. Both the ratings are different, plus the buttons will be reversed so o will be accept and x will be cancelled, and while I play import games and deal with it if I have to(for button changes on the PS4 I use the accessibility options to change x to o and o to x.) Was waiting for just in case I miss the LRG release, but once I preorder both copies of Ys, I'll cancel the Play Asia preorders.

Just an FYI, as of today, Heavy Arms is responding to people asking about the alleged Asian CE of Ys by saying ""We have stopped taking orders for this item because it may not exist according to the worldwide publisher." So, it may be that LRG was correct to warn people about preordering something that doesn't exist.

[mailman187666]

Has anyone gotten their shipping confirmation for Night Trap yet? I got mine for the Bunker but not NT yet. I did make 2 separate orders for them, so I am expecting them to ship separately.

[Porksta]

Has anyone gotten their shipping confirmation for Night Trap yet? I got mine for the Bunker but not NT yet. I did make 2 separate orders for them, so I am expecting them to ship separately.

I got mine today.

[kupomogli]

Just an FYI, as of today, Heavy Arms is responding to people asking about the alleged Asian CE of Ys by saying ""We have stopped taking orders for this item because it may not exist according to the worldwide publisher." So, it may be that LRG was correct to warn people about preordering something that doesn't exist.

This was right after they stated that on all the promotional material they've received that the supplier has sent, it shows the PS4 game having English, Korean, and simplified Chinese. I think everyone knows the artbook and CD aren't going to be in English, and that should be assumed, but the game may actually be English. LRG is stating that DotEmu has got in contact with Arc System Works who states that it's not in English, but why would LRG be going out of their way like this if it's not just to sell more copies of their own release. Whether it's true or not, I can bet you Doug wouldn't be spreading this information if they had no plans of ever releasing Ys Origins.

I'd hope that this mistake didn't happen for those who did preordering it hoping for the English version of the game after they were told. If it doesn't have English then we'll say that LRG did have the best interest of the consumer in mind. Though as I said, they'd never make these comments if they weren't releasing the game themselves, but still, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt and that they are infact doing this solely for the customers and not what's obviously profit. I mean come on, not printing until September, LRG is trying to get their sales in early to lock everyone interested in getting it down. LRG is "selling theirs sooner than everyone else," but in reality we're just preordering the game and they all print at the same time. "Not shipping until October." So many signs point to "doing everything we can on this release for the money." Even a blind man could see it. We'll see in a month what happens with the whole English/Chinese debacle, but everything else, LRG just wants to cash in before everyone else does.

[Tron 2.0]

Has anyone gotten their shipping confirmation for Night Trap yet? I got mine for the Bunker but not NT yet. I did make 2 separate orders for them, so I am expecting them to ship separately.
Got my copy yesterday of night trap beside getting wonderboy the week before.I'm good for now on LRG purchases unless i go for Ys Oirgins,which i'm tempted to preorder.

[kupomogli]

Btw, didn' think about this until now, but to confirm with Aussie2B, you're right about LRG not having any more stickers and postcards. Neurovoider included a card, a LRG reward ticket, and an artbook.

[mailman187666]

Got my copy yesterday of night trap beside getting wonderboy the week before.I'm good for now on LRG purchases unless i go for Ys Oirgins,which i'm tempted to preorder.

I haven't even gotten a tracking number yet. I hope I can just shoot them an e-mail and see whats up.

[Bojay1997]

This was right after they stated that on all the promotional material they've received that the supplier has sent, it shows the PS4 game having English, Korean, and simplified Chinese. I think everyone knows the artbook and CD aren't going to be in English, and that should be assumed, but the game may actually be English. LRG is stating that DotEmu has got in contact with Arc System Works who states that it's not in English, but why would LRG be going out of their way like this if it's not just to sell more copies of their own release. Whether it's true or not, I can bet you Doug wouldn't be spreading this information if they had no plans of ever releasing Ys Origins.

I'd hope that this mistake didn't happen for those who did preordering it hoping for the English version of the game after they were told. If it doesn't have English then we'll say that LRG did have the best interest of the consumer in mind. Though as I said, they'd never make these comments if they weren't releasing the game themselves, but still, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt and that they are infact doing this solely for the customers and not what's obviously profit. I mean come on, not printing until September, LRG is trying to get their sales in early to lock everyone interested in getting it down. LRG is "selling theirs sooner than everyone else," but in reality we're just preordering the game and they all print at the same time. "Not shipping until October." So many signs point to "doing everything we can on this release for the money." Even a blind man could see it. We'll see in a month what happens with the whole English/Chinese debacle, but everything else, LRG just wants to cash in before everyone else does.

The initial run of the Ys games is already in replication with Sony and will be back well before October. Whatever is done as a preorder tomorrow in excess of the already ordered copies will likely not ship until October. I'm not sure what your issue is with them trying to generate a profit here and protect their potential market. They're a business and they believed they had the worldwide exclusive to an English CE only to find out that there may have been another in some ways better version competing with them (which apparently doesn't exist, at least in all English form). They certainly had a business motivation to clear up what their deal really meant and also to convince potential buyers to get their release rather than skipping it in the belief that there was another better version coming. "Cash in" makes them sound sleazy when in fact they're just doing what every other well run business does with a product. I still think you have trouble understanding that businesses and the people that run them aren't just black and white caricatures. They have complex motivations and can both be about maximizing profit and also about trying to help consumers. In fact, the best businesses are those that are a good balance between those things.

[kupomogli]

The initial run of the Ys games is already in replication with Sony and will be back well before October. Whatever is done as a preorder tomorrow in excess of the already ordered copies will likely not ship until October.

Based on a quote from Doug the day before yesterday, this isn't true.


But again, this is a test. If we sell fewer units doing this than we had originally planned we will be scrapping this idea.

If they already had the initial pre planned print run, you think he would of said this? While I hope they do sell more than planned so they continue to do this on the bigger releases, is it fair to scrap the idea based on sales of a game that can be bought elsewhere? Why not test it out on a game that's actually exclusive to them. However, I do think it will hit it's goal, as I think Ys has a bigger niche audience than WonderBoy, being a classic RPG series that has been released regularly to this day, so fans of the genre like Johnny from Happy Console Gamer all the way up to people who never heard of the series until the PSP or Vita releases.