What's an RPG? (Long article illiterates need not apply)

[Gabriel]

Hmm. I would say that wouldn't qualify as an RPG under my definition. Who is the player character? Generally, in a football game, you have control over the entire team during the game. So what "other players" would you talk to? The opposing team? That wouldn't really work because it would have to be at very scripted opportunities, making it not player-initiated.

There are certainly examples of games which are non-controversially RPGs where the point of view character speaks to other members of his own party. Persona is like this.

In the hypothetical football game, the team itself would be analogous to the heroic group. There are certainly examples of RPGs where no single character maintains the point of view distinction throughout the game. A good example of this is Chrono Trigger, where the main point of view character dies. So, it isn't really accurate to say a RPG requires the control of a single character in game.

I don't think Wizardry "needs" to be included as an RPG. I think it's okay to say, maybe Wizardry isn't really an RPG. If you really have to bend over backwards with all sorts of qualifiers to include something, then maybe it's better to exclude it.

Occam's razor does have it's uses, and they certainly might be appropriate here. But I don't think redefining CRPGs to exclude one of the founding games of the genre would be a good redefinition.

As a programmer, sometimes you end up with conditional statements which aren't very elegant. I call such things "One Eyed Jacks Are Wild on Wednesdays." You always want to go for the easiest way of conditioning everything, but there are times when you just can't due to the checklist you need to account for.

Although I have to say I'm not dead set on my definition of RPG either. It's just an idea. I think it's a pretty good starting point. I'm open to modifying it... but I'm also open to simply leaving Wizardry and similar games out of the definition.

The only thing I feel I'm extremely rigid in is the element of my definition of RPG which says that any game which is predominately action is not an RPG. This leads to me trying to find interesting categories for the Tales series.

Action or realtime alone doesn't disqualify a game as a RPG. But if the action outweighs the statistical elements, if the twitch outweighs the decision making, then it is not an RPG.

I think you have to either include SOTN or exclude Wizardry (at least I don't see a reasonable alternative to these two options). I would prefer the latter.

Well, I personally think the statistics > twitch rule neatly takes care of SotN and the other games which are action games with some RPG trappings.

I just thought of something else which I'll throw out there. In many reviews for older RPGs like Ultima II, the reviewers commented the defining factor as to whether a player could beat the game was mere time investment. Since statistics defined the gameplay, and experience gained for periods of play upgraded statistics, it was only a matter of time before your characters developed enough power to be able to tackle the endgame.

This isn't exactly true. Puzzles can considerably hold a player up. But the point was that the elements which presented roadblocks were external instead of internal to the game. Not being able to finish the game because of a brainteaser is different from not being able to complete a game because you keep on mistiming the jump button during the part with the moving platforms.

So, maybe that's the key. If beating the game is ultimately dependent on grinding levels with the only other obstacles to defeating the game being external to the game, then it's a RPG. It's food for thought anyway.